00:00:59 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-193-35.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 00:02:13 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslc-082-082-054-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:39 danlei [n=user@pD9E2E1FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:08 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:27 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:00 -!- trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-059-028-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:38 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:17:49 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:19:12 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:33 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:56 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y212.net.upc.cz] has quit [""GNU is *INDEED* No UNIX!""] 00:22:00 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 00:25:19 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.9] has joined #lisp 00:25:24 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:47 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:29:54 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:30:37 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 00:31:36 Strav [n=user@dsl-60-177.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 00:32:14 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.241] has joined #lisp 00:34:09 small question: is it I or clisp and cmucl have a cpu eating disorder? (at least while interfaced with emacs/slime, mostly after recovering from an error (aborting evaluation)? 00:34:51 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-107.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:40:01 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 00:48:46 neh? 00:48:56 i never used cmucl really... 00:49:11 but clisp can crash after aborting an evaluation 00:49:16 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 00:49:53 ok. I would stick to sbcl if it weren't for some compatibility issue with some code I do not wish to investigate. 00:50:27 thanks anyways, I'll google some more. 00:50:30 -!- Strav [n=user@dsl-60-177.aei.ca] has left #lisp 00:51:31 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:55:37 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:58:04 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:21 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:00:34 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.66.211] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:00:42 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.66.211] has joined #lisp 01:03:46 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:05:43 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:08:02 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.172] has joined #lisp 01:08:06 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@p5B0BC29E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:10:38 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:13:29 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@pool-71-112-112-231.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:14:46 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-34-140.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:16:26 -!- ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:16:36 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:11 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 01:20:27 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:25:38 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"] 01:25:49 Sukoshi [n=MuneNoKa@par0978.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 01:25:50 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087EF1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! 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joined #lisp 03:57:38 evenin' #lisp 03:58:44 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.241] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:59:59 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.241] has joined #lisp 04:01:10 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-116-19.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:29 hah, saw the #lisp and thought, "what does that function do?" before realizing... 04:03:23 evenin 04:03:50 smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:59 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:16:53 semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 04:17:02 birdsbite [n=user@74.196.9.26] has joined #lisp 04:19:34 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 04:20:22 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.9] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:20:56 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:48 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:22:52 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 04:27:15 -!- gorilych [n=Andrej@pi46-34-82.cn.ru] has left #lisp 04:28:03 -!- AllNight^ [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:36:15 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:44:45 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:10 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@217-68-187-100.dynamic.primacom.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:58:08 -!- shizzy0 [n=shane@c-76-105-6-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:59:46 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-187-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:01:30 -!- dreish [n=dreish@207.138.47.173] has quit [] 05:03:24 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:08:05 http://github.com/ayrnieu/ecl-examples/tree/master - builds hello (from hello.c , embedded CL), cl-hello1 (c:build-program ...), and cl-hello (asdf:make-build ...). 05:08:20 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.66.211] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:08:27 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.115.197.103] has joined #lisp 05:08:41 -!- awayekos [n=anekos@pl141.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:09:17 awayekos [n=anekos@pl608.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:10:30 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:14:53 Good morning. 05:16:16 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:18:24 beach: mornin' 05:18:49 *sykopomp* is looking into PLT scheme and is really impressed. 05:19:01 v4 ? 05:19:12 I've never played with scheme before. 05:19:22 but this is 4, yes. 05:20:20 I do like Scheme, but I learned with PLT v3, which was r5rs, I don't like the R6rs/v4, But plt permits to choose the language 05:20:46 r6rs seems to be getting a lot of flak, but I don't see the big deal :P 05:21:19 the main difference is cons creates non-mutable lists 05:22:05 *Fulax* wants time to learn Lisp 05:24:03 I guess you are in the right place. 05:24:19 sykopomp: after, I you look for a scheme native compiler (by translating Scheme to C), you may take a look to Bigloo, which is r5rs 05:24:35 yep beach, this is why I stand here :) 05:24:42 Bigloo implements the R5RS? 05:24:47 I didn't know that it guaranteed proper tail recursion. 05:26:05 Riastradh: well It don't is a few specific cases that I could not told, and that's also the reason it's not named "Scheme something" 05:26:11 or "smth-scheme" 05:26:26 *in a few 05:26:42 Sorry? I'm having trouble parsing that sentence. 05:27:21 Riastradh: there specific cases where having tail-recursion treated as loops is not really necessary 05:27:50 That sentence not enough verbs. 05:28:09 Nevertheless, that means it is not implementing the r5rs. 05:28:10 *Fulax* needs more coffee 05:28:13 lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 05:28:29 Part of the definition of Scheme is proper tail recursion. Failure to guarantee proper tail recursion is failure to implement Scheme. 05:28:43 seems like a pretty significant thing to miss, too. 05:29:21 As far as I know, Bigloo sacrifices Scheme for a little bit of speed and convenience in interacting with C++. 05:31:32 not only C++, C and Java also 05:32:54 After it depends on what you want to use scheme for 05:33:15 s/scheme/Bigloo/1 05:34:10 If you want efficiency on produced code and interfacing with other code like C or Java, then you can use Bigloo (but not only) for that purpose 05:35:15 -!- dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has quit ["xxx"] 05:35:45 If you want to use pure Scheme, and make proof of your program, then maybe a full scheme compliant implementation will be better 05:36:32 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FDC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:55 tail recursion is a pretty significant oversight 05:36:57 `Proof' has nothing to do with it; this is about writing reliable programs. 05:39:32 sykopomp: there are different cases for tail recursion, depending on if the function have arguments or return a value 05:41:13 there a case where tail-recursion does not use stack 05:41:38 (in C) 05:42:41 and I think, (but not I'm not completely sure) that, this last case, is not translated in a loop 05:46:00 -!- Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.38.37] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:50:19 ebzzry_ [n=ebzzry@124.217.72.59] has joined #lisp 05:51:49 dysinger_ [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:06 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:54:01 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 05:55:00 Riastradh: Are you happy with the new steering comittee? 05:55:41 brandelune [n=suzume@pl395.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:56:42 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:57:29 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:57 Has the steering committee been decided yet? I haven't been following. 06:01:23 -!- ebzzry_ is now known as ebzzry 06:02:37 Riastradh: Feeley, Clinger and Rees. 06:02:38 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:02:39 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:04:43 Well, those are mostly reasonable choices. I'm afraid that Rees might try to persuade me to be on the author committee for the next report (if they decide to do another report like the R6RS), but aside from that I don't really know what the election of the steering committee means, which is part of why I didn't vote. 06:05:05 Sorry, let me be clearer: I'm afraid that Rees might succeed in persuading me. 06:06:50 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-169-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:07:49 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:55 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:14:04 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:21:07 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-224-126.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 06:21:18 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:27:06 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-70.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:28:00 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:40 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:31:40 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 06:36:17 ebzzry_ [n=ebzzry@124.217.78.2] has joined #lisp 06:37:45 HET2 [n=diman@84.114.161.225] has joined #lisp 06:40:35 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-128-71.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:43:29 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:44:58 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-84-44-169-209.netcologne.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:48:36 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.72.59] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:26 Hello 06:50:59 hello, MrSpec. 06:53:17 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Out of Memory: Killed process [9823] xchat."] 06:53:44 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-70.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 06:53:54 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:54:09 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:57:04 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:57:26 How do I do an (if foo && bar (...)) type of thing? 06:58:23 ie, the and part. 06:58:27 (if (and foo bar) (do-stuff)) 06:58:32 o 06:58:35 heh :) 06:58:59 bet you didn't expect that. 06:59:05 No :) 07:00:59 Thats quite cool :) 07:04:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 07:06:40 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:07:26 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:12:42 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FDC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung."] 07:13:07 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-70.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:14:00 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:15:33 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-141-69.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:33 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:15:36 Trystam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:36 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FDC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:04 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has joined #lisp 07:16:55 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:20:53 dys` [n=andreas@p5B313BE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:39 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:21:48 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:25:45 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:26:36 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B315469.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:26:42 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:30:56 user___ [n=user@p549249A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:30 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:32:04 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 07:33:27 -!- Trystam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:33:30 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:33:45 tessier [n=treed@68.15.4.26] has joined #lisp 07:33:56 Trystam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-227-67.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:37:17 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-236-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:37:17 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:41:38 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:42:37 LostMonarch [n=roby@82.49.211.68] has joined #lisp 07:43:49 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 07:47:30 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host242.190-138-165.telecom.net.ar] has quit ["leaving"] 07:47:45 Tordek [n=tordek@host242.190-138-165.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:49:37 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:45 good morning 07:50:34 gorilych [n=akartash@pi46-34-82.cn.ru] has joined #lisp 07:53:32 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:54:00 -!- wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:56:45 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:56:53 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FDC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:58:28 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:58:48 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:59:28 harblcat [n=chris@c-71-201-98-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:44 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FDC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:54 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has joined #lisp 08:00:54 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:02:10 is there anything special I need to do to get clos? 08:03:30 -!- Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:03:52 should be supposeted on most modern implimentations i think 08:04:26 some implementations may implement it poorly, that's all. But it's part of CL, automatically available. 08:04:41 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:05:03 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 08:06:52 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:07:55 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:01 I see. Pardon my confusion :P 08:12:10 woah! SBCL's in OpenBSD ports! 08:12:47 http://www.elsasser.org/openbsd/sbcl.html <-- the port maintainer. 08:13:04 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 08:16:03 jmbr___ [n=jmbr@87.223.189.246] has joined #lisp 08:18:05 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:18:27 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:19:45 -!- harblcat [n=chris@c-71-201-98-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:22:37 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 08:22:38 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:26:28 good morning 08:26:41 morning, trebor. 08:27:09 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 08:27:14 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 08:28:07 -!- ebzzry_ [n=ebzzry@124.217.78.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:30:01 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 08:30:30 addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 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vcgomes eirik luis kefka easch 09:06:51 -!- names: @drewc omg911 herbieB cmatei lisppaste trebor_dki _3b Dazhbog @Xof koning_robot ianmcorvidae andrewy fnordus Arnar e271 z0d erg xristos Soulman qebab Riastradh turbo24prg ineiros Guest82189 koollman jrockway clog krappie albino johs plan9 trekdanne delYsid rumbleca frodef Thas larstobi p8m joshe minion svaksha Ttech ltbarcly zbigniew drforr djinni` mqt kg4qxk housel Khisanth spiaggia deepfire djkthx aking 09:09:52 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 09:11:28 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:14:01 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 09:16:02 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:17:06 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.168.10] has quit [] 09:19:17 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 09:19:41 Zhivago- [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:19:43 -!- Zhivago- is now known as Zhivago 09:27:04 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-116-19.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 09:27:59 what is this "#:foo" 09:28:07 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:28:37 i know #'foo is a function, what is #:foo 09:29:47 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 09:30:00 lboard: try reading a book 09:30:03 a symbol 09:30:07 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA462.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:30:34 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB87C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:30:36 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 09:30:36 clhs symbol 09:30:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_symbol.htm 09:32:06 hello 09:32:17 manuel__: hi! 09:33:19 there are chat bot's in this channel 09:33:21 ? 09:33:34 minion: are you a bot? 09:33:35 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 09:35:20 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 09:35:21 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:37:24 it's easy to identify a bot; just go and say hi, a bot will reply, but humans often not. 09:38:11 lboard, did you put that ecl-on-windows-with-hutchentoot lispbox anywhere? 09:39:16 lboard - on #:foo , read http://flownet.com/ron/packages.pdf 09:39:56 no, i asked in this channel to do it actually, but no one responded! 09:41:12 ayrnieu: if u interested, i will upload now, but i have to clean it a bit. 09:41:31 I'm interested, thanks. 09:42:00 shall i upload it in rapidshare, or any other good place u kNOW? 09:43:06 well, you could offer it to http://gigamonkeys.com/book/lispbox/ ; hutchentoot is outside the book, but not unpractical. 09:43:35 or you could paste instructions to build it 09:45:34 ecl have emitted (*.exp, *.ilk, *.manifest, *.obj, *.lib, *.pdb) which files can i remove, so that it doesn't require rebuild for others 09:46:46 matley [n=matley@193.204.39.77] has joined #lisp 09:46:49 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:50:55 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:52:13 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 09:54:44 How do I go (if t (foo x) (bar y)) and have both foo x and bar y run? 09:54:45 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:54:51 Im missing something simple here 09:55:07 jsoft: progn? 09:55:13 huh? 09:55:24 jsoft: (when t (foo x) (bar y)) 09:55:36 Look it up. 09:55:41 so if is not quite the right thing for it then? 09:55:53 if is fine. 09:56:07 look up progn. Then consider when as a more elegant option. 09:56:14 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 09:56:32 (macroexpand-1 '(when t (foo x) (bar y))) => (IF T (PROGN (FOO X) (BAR Y) NIL) 09:56:52 except that you can see I retyped rather than pasted the expansion. 09:57:01 yes 09:57:14 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa95] has joined #lisp 09:58:17 erm so basically its the same thing for both. 09:58:37 jsoft: yes. 09:58:40 macros are basically the same as what they expand to. 09:58:48 So I actually need progn 09:59:00 I was wondering why I could not sort it out. 09:59:07 no, no, actually you need the assembly JMP instruction. 09:59:10 jsoft: if you have no else clause, use WHEN 09:59:15 Probably typing in 'huh?' too much. 09:59:35 If you have a condition of t, you can simplify it to just (progn (foo x) (bar y)) :) 10:00:37 jsoft: if accepts 3 forms, so you need to wrap them in a prog1/progn if you want to use more than one form in one of the places. 10:00:46 (if condition then-form else-form) 10:01:09 Got you. 10:01:10 you can't do (if condition then-form then-form then-form), that's what when is for. 10:01:19 (when condition then-form*) 10:01:26 Righto 10:01:31 I shalt use when then :) 10:01:32 there is also unless, ;) 10:02:54 Also, there's cond :) 10:04:08 Right then, that makes sens. 10:04:12 sense, as well. 10:05:24 slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:17 -!- cYmen_ is now known as cYmen 10:06:48 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:08:44 I see some example (if (> 2 1) then a nil, then (something ....)) 10:08:47 what is the nil for 10:09:07 is it to skip on to the else part ? 10:09:18 must me. 10:09:22 must be. 10:09:44 It doesn't skip. 10:09:53 -!- jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:10:08 It would evaluate to nil upon false, though. 10:10:17 don't feel the need to spew every thought that pops into your head into your IRC buffer, either 10:10:28 think first, then ask 10:10:42 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.237.136] has joined #lisp 10:11:04 (defmacro ifelse (test &rest body) (destructuring-bind (then &optional else) (split-sequence:split-sequence #.(format nil "~A" '#:else) body :key (lambda (x) (when (symbolp x) (symbol-name x))) :test #'equal) `(if ,test (progn ,@then) (progn ,@else)))) 10:11:16 erm. hello? 10:12:12 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:12:18 sepult [n=buggarag@84.44.169.209] has joined #lisp 10:12:26 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:12:46 tib [n=tl@89.180.221.170] has joined #lisp 10:17:52 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:53 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:19:00 Bootvis [n=brj@80.57.37.65] has joined #lisp 10:19:23 mikesch_ [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-218-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:32 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-8-32.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:24:41 Hmm. 10:30:18 he-box : http://prabuinet.blogspot.com/2009/02/he-box.html 10:30:33 m811 [n=user@234.191.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:30:48 ayrnieu: i have uploaded it 10:31:22 toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:45 thanks! 10:32:03 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:33:56 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:34:46 I'm downloading it, but I can only run one vmware instance easily, so I'll try it later. 10:34:58 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-236-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:38:41 ok, let me know if you have any problem running it 10:38:41 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:39:36 tetha [n=hk@pD9EE72CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:26 ijcoxf [n=chatzill@jerry.chem.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:41:37 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:44:03 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:46:06 ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:52:26 How can I initialize a clos object who's initialization should be split up into the initilization from the parent class and the one of the class itself? 10:53:42 with appropriate methods on initialize-instance, perhaps? 10:53:43 sepisultrum: with initialize-instance methods? 10:53:45 "whose", incidentally 10:54:16 H4ns: oh, didn't know about them 10:56:00 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 10:56:39 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:56:44 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:16 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:58:52 Is this like a contstructor in other languages? I've read somewhere that clos did not have constructors and that one has to write normal functioncs that create objects 10:59:20 Vivek [n=Vivek@gnu-india/admin/VivekVC] has joined #lisp 10:59:43 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:52 this is a lot like constructors. see also shared-initialize 10:59:55 Oooh, a grammar-friendly channel, at last. 11:01:11 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:54 bob_f: shut it 11:02:01 bob_f: sorry 11:02:26 sepisultrum: I forgive you. 11:02:39 bob_f: I forgot that we aren't in #stumpwm 11:02:39 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:02:56 :-) 11:03:50 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:06:23 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:06:40 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:07:44 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:07:57 And how can you do type casts in clos? 11:09:08 -!- Vivek [n=Vivek@gnu-india/admin/VivekVC] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:09:10 sepisultrum: what do you want to achieve? 11:12:32 -!- user___ [n=user@p54924436.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:13:03 H4ns: well, I previously tried to construct an object by chaining together a constructor function of the superclass, then initializing what was left for the current class. This of course does not work because the object returend by the first method is of the parent class 11:13:37 so I wondered if it is possible to downcast the object, just out of curiosity. I don't need it for construction anymore 11:13:55 clhs change-class 11:13:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_chg_cl.htm 11:14:08 sepisultrum: no, you cannot "downcast" an existing object. you can change an object's class, though. 11:15:59 H4ns: ok, I'll look that up. You can't find anything relevant by searching the web for "clos downcast" or "clos cast" :) 11:16:23 sepisultrum: casting is a c anomaly and term. 11:16:45 Is the requirement to load slime-sbcl-exts for successful use (i.e. arglists, c-p-c) of slime being common knowledge? 11:18:21 It seems that I have to feed it explicitly to slime-setup. 11:19:07 H4ns: yeah. Thanks for the hints 11:20:39 Damn, that appears not to be enough -- I get "Symbol "ARGLIST-FOR-ECHO-AREA" not found in the SWANK package." for the cvs slime/git sbcl combination.. 11:21:18 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087CFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:27 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 11:21:55 I guess I'll stick the reference to swank-sbcl-exts.lisp into swank-loader manually. 11:22:17 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:22:36 Maybe emacs-snapshot is the cause of all that trouble.. 11:28:50 It appears that slime-require doesn't do its job, for some reason. 11:28:51 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:30:35 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:36:06 -!- tib [n=tl@89.180.221.170] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:36:26 tib [n=tl@89-180-53-174.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 11:36:54 drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-50.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:37:09 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@68.126.208.160] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:42:46 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:36 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 11:46:13 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:47:49 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:49:29 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-181-128.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:50:24 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:50:30 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 11:51:11 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:52:34 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-142-70.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:52:35 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55:19 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 11:57:01 HET2 [n=diman@62.218.228.5] has joined #lisp 11:57:54 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has joined #lisp 11:59:44 -!- ijcoxf [n=chatzill@jerry.chem.ox.ac.uk] has left #lisp 12:00:11 -!- HET2 [n=diman@62.218.228.5] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00:12 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B1A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:51 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:54 -!- knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:04:19 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:50 Chrononaut [n=bjorn@obvcode.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:08 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B1A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:06:09 -!- Trystam is now known as Tristam 12:06:36 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:07:22 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-8-32.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:40 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-26-148.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:08:56 delqna [n=futekova@147.210.246.189] has joined #lisp 12:11:04 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 12:15:34 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 12:15:35 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:19:49 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 12:20:51 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-91.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:22:50 jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 12:23:22 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-208-160.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:25:10 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:25:53 semka_ [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 12:26:25 user___ [n=user@p549245F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:28 -!- semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:29:55 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-187-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:21 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 12:32:52 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 12:34:13 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-187-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:18 -!- shizzy0 [n=shane@c-76-105-6-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36:00 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 12:36:08 -!- jmbr___ is now known as jmbr 12:40:03 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 12:40:04 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:40:37 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:43:37 has anyone heard of driving XUL/xulrunner from Common Lisp? (I 12:43:49 (I'm very sick of both GTK and Tk) 12:44:17 -!- drafael1 [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-50.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:24 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-50.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:46:09 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-114.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:46:31 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 12:49:28 Ogedei, out of curiosity (if you feel like satisfying that), what's wrong with GTK? 12:49:44 deepfire: incomplete OS X port 12:50:22 deepfire: and terribly imperative, GUI code can be much more declarative 12:53:24 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:40 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:55:39 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 12:56:00 -!- lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 12:56:20 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 12:56:38 Ogedei: I made a horrible proof of concept about a year ago using hunchentoot, ajax & xul. You can take a look at it if you're planning to write something yourself. 12:58:33 aerique: would be very interested. you're communicating to the UI through a web server? did you explore any alternatives? 12:59:29 (as in, this will be a local app, so it'd be nice to be able to bypass the whole HTTP cruft) 13:00:07 Ogedei: No, I think I ditched XUL due to a lack of widgets I needed, got swamped in work and recently discovered clg when I picked the project back up. 13:00:42 Ogedei: I also didn't check alternatives since I didn't want it to be local-only. 13:00:50 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:00:59 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 13:01:29 Ogedei: message me an e-mail address and I'll zip it up and mail it to you. Like I said, it's nothing more than a proof of concept. 13:01:43 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:46 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:06:02 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:08:19 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:09:05 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:09:07 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 13:12:05 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:14:27 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 13:20:27 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 13:21:01 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:50 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:25:36 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:25:36 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:26:17 christoph_debian [n=christop@sf-ogame.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:21 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:12 -!- jsoft [n=user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:31:00 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E442.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:32:50 segv [n=mb@p4FC1E442.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:41 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 13:42:20 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 13:42:58 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:45:42 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-252.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:53 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has joined #lisp 13:52:11 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 13:52:34 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:48 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:55:57 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1E442.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:24 segv [n=mb@p4FC1CA20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:13 arthur [n=fds@59.178.203.83] has joined #lisp 14:01:18 lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 14:01:44 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:05:14 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:07:09 lance [n=fds@59.178.203.83] has joined #lisp 14:07:34 -!- semka_ [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:07:37 -!- lance is now known as Guest16973 14:07:45 -!- Guest16973 [n=fds@59.178.203.83] has left #lisp 14:07:53 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:41 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.206.160] has joined #lisp 14:10:57 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 14:14:06 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-143-50.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:17:57 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:20:41 -!- lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 14:21:45 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.245.131] has joined #lisp 14:24:16 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-147-152.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:29 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:25:05 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 14:25:20 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 14:26:17 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-148-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 14:28:26 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:29:36 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:29:49 -!- arthur [n=fds@59.178.203.83] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:30:21 Good afternoon. 14:32:29 hello beach 14:32:44 mvilleneuve: did you get in touch with moore33? 14:33:00 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-131-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:33:31 beach: he did reply to my message, yes 14:33:51 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 14:33:56 demmeln [i=demmeln@atradig114.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:35 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:09 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:37:09 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-100-82-124.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 14:37:10 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:39:50 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.130.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:59 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@84.44.169.209] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:42:36 -!- ehird [n=ehird@eso-std.org] has quit ["Caught sigterm, terminating..."] 14:43:22 ehird [n=ehird@208.78.103.223] has joined #lisp 14:44:51 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:40 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [] 14:47:45 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:09 tsuru [n=user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:16 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 14:55:57 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [] 14:59:15 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:59:29 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl608.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:02:14 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-165.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 15:02:29 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 15:02:52 anekos [n=anekos@pl608.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:04:32 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:09 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:14:09 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 15:14:42 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:15:31 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.107] has joined #lisp 15:17:39 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:18:43 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:50 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:19:51 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:22:30 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF098F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:36 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-195-3.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 15:23:12 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:25:36 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.172] has joined #lisp 15:27:00 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:27:13 Greetings! 15:29:35 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 15:29:59 kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:09 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:35:12 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:31 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 15:37:42 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:39:23 ironChicken [n=richard@mx.lurk.org] has joined #lisp 15:40:21 -!- mikesch_ [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-218-216.netcologne.de] has quit [] 15:41:45 This is returning a type error: (loop repeat 3 for i from 2 by -1 collect i) 15:41:47 -!- jfactor [n=john@student167-35.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:21 yeah. The step needs to be positive 15:42:28 downfrom 2 by 1 15:42:31 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-165.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:42:37 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-167.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:43:12 ok. but it's actually used in (defun range (count &optional (start 0) (step 1)) (loop repeat count for i from start by step collect i)) 15:43:54 (range 3 2 -1) 15:44:06 you can't do that 15:44:10 not portably, anyway 15:44:44 ok. so i'll need to check the value of step 15:45:31 ironChicken: (loop repeat count for i = start then (+ start step) collect i) 15:45:31 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:45:43 no conditionals, no need to write your own collect 15:47:35 <_death> and when does it end? 15:47:45 repeat count 15:48:08 <_death> oh, missed it 15:48:34 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.172] has quit ["Leaving..."] 15:49:37 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:46 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-218-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:52:33 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:53:16 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 15:54:18 (+ i step) 15:56:11 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has quit [] 15:56:32 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 15:59:16 Xof: yes 15:59:29 whoops 16:00:35 Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-142-163.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:44 *ironChicken* makes cl a little bit more like python ;-) 16:01:10 "more"? 16:02:00 jfactor [n=john@student167-208.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 16:02:51 MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 16:03:05 ironChicken: why are you making it worse 16:03:19 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:03:19 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 16:03:43 this is a matter of opinion. i'm just defining some functions i'm used to having in python 16:03:55 like? 16:03:58 range 16:04:25 ok, that's a valid wish :P 16:04:34 ironChicken: Things like that are less a matter of opinion that many people would like to think. 16:04:56 beach: agreed there, but a range version is relatively unobjectionable 16:05:09 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [] 16:05:13 making it more like python would mean doing something like complicating the syntax 16:05:20 or making whitespace meaningful 16:05:24 ehird: I didn't consider that particular case. 16:05:29 -!- MrSpec_ [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Client Quit] 16:05:32 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:05:40 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 16:05:46 there are things in python that are nice. i only really miss list comprehensions, though. 16:06:04 Grey_Fox: i only meant a few odd functions, not changing syntax 16:06:18 <_death> why do you miss list comprehensions when you have lisp comprehensions, a.k.a. loop 16:06:29 that's just making it more lispy! 16:06:36 ;p 16:06:37 Fade: lisp comprehensions can be trivially replaced by loop and mapcar 16:06:40 err, list/ 16:06:59 well, that's obviously what you end up doing, but it's actually more concise in python 16:07:03 which is nice. 16:07:16 is there a library for loading 3D models in cl-opengl (any format)? 16:07:18 wgl [n=wgl@216.145.227.9] has joined #lisp 16:07:23 'course, the list comprehension in python seemed to come out of the fact that lambda in python is broken. 16:07:34 Isn't range like ALEXANDRIA:IOTA? 16:07:45 deepfire: it's like APL's iota, yes 16:07:57 Fade: Common Lisp isn't generally the most golfy language in my experience .. 16:08:11 xach posted zs3 - Amazon S3 from Common Lisp at http://www.xach.com/lisp/zs3 16:08:12 i'm not familiar with that adjective in this context. :) 16:08:31 code golf: a competition to write a given program in the least characters/lines/tokens/etc 16:08:35 sellout- [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:36 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:08:51 (from key*strokes*) 16:09:17 <_death> ironChicken: afaik `range' is usually used when iterating through a range of integers.. consing a list just for this seems wasteful.. that is why, methinks, they came up with `xrange' 16:09:34 ehird: oh, right. that's true, and frankly it isn't one of the things I aim for in my own code. I just found the list comprehension to be a conscision that didn't make anything more obscure, so i put them on the list of neat stuff. 16:09:34 _death: Consider, however, a function that takes a list. 16:09:39 ironChicken, you might want to look at Alexandria, for an agreed-upon set of idiomatic extensions. 16:09:53 Fade: i'm just googling for equivalents to python's generators now 16:09:55 <_death> ehird: sure, that's not what I'm talking about 16:10:03 _death: OK 16:10:20 ironChicken, for generators you might want to check out Iterate and Series. 16:10:27 generators are also useful, but not strictly a language feature. they could probably be implemented quite trivially in lisp. 16:10:39 generators are indeed a 30-line hack 16:11:10 SERIES is hardly a 30-line hack :) 16:11:21 :-P 16:11:55 <_death> Fade: when I read some python code I _did_ puzzle over associativity rules 16:12:39 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:41 some people consider Haskell syntax extremely readable, so what do you know 16:12:43 oh? 16:13:01 Haskell's syntax is not harder than any other language once you learn it. 16:13:17 <_death> cmm: I dislike that use of the term `readable' 16:13:23 the less syntax the better. 16:13:48 well, Haskell's got its own share of Huffman encoding. 16:13:56 _death: no fair, you must be a trained logician! 16:14:53 lol wut "LG3 literally writes 100% of your LISP programs for you" 16:14:55 http://www.beowolftech.com/lispgen/ 16:15:28 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 16:16:24 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:12 okay, that's bizarre. 16:19:21 oh, it's for autocad. 16:19:30 still utterly ridiculous, of course. 16:20:24 <_death> ehird: some time ago it occurred to me that Haskell is very much like C++ in that they provide way too little bang for the buck.. I guess the difference is that in C++ the effort is spent memorizing trivia, so it's unsurprisingly capable of mainstream adoption 16:20:37 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:20:49 Really? I'd say Haskell is quite concise. (Not the main virtue of a programming language, note.) 16:21:02 <_death> ehird: I'm not talking about syntax 16:21:06 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.217] has joined #lisp 16:21:08 OK, then I misread. 16:21:13 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:21:16 <_death> with syntax both are mostly trivia 16:22:05 ehird, basically a point-and-click-driven code generator -- so that people don't have to be independently creative about a canned set of concepts. 16:22:23 deepfire: but but it uses Flexpressions(TM) to parse English and BASIC! 16:22:40 ehird, by the number of customers, they seem to make something desirable.. 16:23:43 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:24:22 I've never found those products useful because I eventually end up having to learn the underlying language to do something. At that point, the point and click interface because redundant and actually inhibits my productivity. 16:24:34 s/because/becomes/ 16:25:12 tmh, do you think that is the case with most other users? 16:25:36 deepfire: I don't know, I've given up trying to understand other people. :-P 16:25:44 It also depends on how many of the usecases their GUI covers, I'd say. 16:25:49 other people are like butterflies. stupid butterflies. 16:26:01 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:27:59 Of course, the main point of an extension language is to be used directly. So, most likely, the popularity of such a tool points at the failure of the AutoCAD's UI to cover more use cases. 16:28:55 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:25 *trebor_dki* thinks it is evil genius to make people to behave like butterflies ;) 16:29:54 sometimes other people are like evil genius butterflies. they are still stupid and make other people into stupid butterflies. 16:30:33 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa95] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:30:36 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:19 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:32:27 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:32:34 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.217] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:32:36 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:21 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:34:31 Well, people tend to tolerate only so many distractions on their way, so at a certain point they begin craving for quick and dirty solutions. 16:34:35 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:35:54 -!- user___ [n=user@p549245F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:36:55 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.8] has joined #lisp 16:37:06 that tool is an interesting illustration of the market that is defined by users whose reach far exceeds their grasp. 16:37:14 -!- jfactor [n=john@student167-208.hampshire.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:37:41 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-169.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:38:17 -!- sellout- [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:39:04 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:24 aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:06 generators as a thirty-line CL hack is strictly untrue, by the way. you can get quite close, but you need a code walker/CPS transform to really have first-class coroutines 16:41:22 hefner [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:41:54 Ogedei: Yeah, I realised that as soon as I opened a buffer to hack it up. 16:42:35 Oh well. 16:44:53 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 16:45:42 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49:49 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:50:07 schoppenhauer [n=css@p5B0BC29E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:55 -!- aggieben [n=chatzill@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:16 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:56:00 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:15 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:38 aunwork [n=aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:41 lboard [n=lboard@117.193.193.220] has joined #lisp 17:04:09 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:37 did anyone tested he-box 17:05:00 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 17:05:39 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-129-129.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:06:45 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d83850.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:06:59 -!- stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-129-129.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:18 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-129-129.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:10:07 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@75.19.87.52] has quit ["leaving"] 17:10:26 -!- r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-56-155.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["rr"] 17:10:51 lboard: Can you give a reference to he-box? 17:11:17 http://prabuinet.blogspot.com/2009/02/he-box.html 17:11:21 it is for windows 17:13:08 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:11 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has left #lisp 17:13:22 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:40 Ah, that looks like a good endeavor, but I have a suggestion. Since you are trying to lower the bar for installing a common lisp system on windows, don't use an uncommon compression format. 17:14:02 -!- stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-129-129.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:14:04 7zip is common on Windows. 17:14:25 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-129-129.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:49 Well then, I'll fire up my windows VM and give it a go. 17:15:39 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:42 lboard: Do you pack it with a compiler? 17:16:49 tmh: the size of both *.zip and *.rar was 30% higher than that; I will try to make it zip once i have cleaned and tested it properly 17:17:16 p_l: i have a plan to zip it along with mingw later; 17:17:48 lboard: Any chances of making it work with Windows Platform SDK? 17:18:01 It's going to be a while before I can test it, I haven't run my windows VM recently and it is 'updating'. 17:18:02 7zip is common? 17:18:16 for internet junkies maybe :) 17:18:22 r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-56-155.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:18:33 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.8] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:18:55 repnop: I assure you that the vast majority of people who find that site and think "ooh, common lisp! I'd better try this" will have 7zip. :p 17:19:14 *repnop* just uses winrar if stuck on windows 17:19:21 p_l: i actually compiled it with win sdk 17:19:47 yay 17:20:29 now if there was a way to easily fix autobroken packages to sensibly work with Platform SDK... 17:20:32 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:22:30 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-131-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 17:23:57 p_l, AFAIK it's impossible to get ECL going witout ms platform sdk. 17:24:27 -!- delqna [n=futekova@147.210.246.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:24:34 On win32/msvc, that is. 17:24:56 deepfire: It doesn't bother me - I actually prefer to have stuff for windows compiled with it, rather than cygwin (MinGW is not as bad, but I don't like Cygwin) 17:25:11 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has quit [] 17:25:44 p_l, Oh, I see what you meaned now. 17:26:33 I wonder If I might get LLVM's linker to work with msvc libraries 17:26:48 is it possible to change ecl to produce error's more informative 17:27:07 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:27:13 i need to call (some) with a predicate function which accepts two arguments, one is the item from the sequence, but the other is constant. 17:27:17 i though this would be quite clever, but it doesn't work: (let ((predicate-for-K (lambda (x) (predicate x 'K)))) (some #'predicate-for-K '(a b c))) 17:27:30 (passing the lambda to some works, though) 17:27:45 Pehraps you might consider flet or labels? 17:28:09 lboard: What kind of errors? 17:28:30 s/#'// in that case, but LABELS is better 17:29:29 error reporting is not good, .. form #n; instead of line no would be nice 17:30:04 lboard: that's typical of lisp implementations. Emacs can help you count forms too. 17:31:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 17:31:27 Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:32:06 evening ppls 17:33:50 ok. flet. interesting 17:33:58 WarWeasle [n=beerb@208.4.144.212] has joined #lisp 17:34:16 so, erm, why does it work without the #'? 17:34:17 quick question regarding packages: Pacakage A uses Package X and Package B uses X aswell BUT now if A tries to use B then there are conflicts regarding functions and global variables in X...how do I resolve this 17:34:24 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:34:32 ironChicken: common lisp is lisp-2 17:34:50 jfactor [n=john@student166-235.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 17:35:18 <_death> Harag: that shouldn't happen, unless there's some shadowing going on 17:35:25 -!- r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-56-155.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["rr"] 17:35:34 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:35:40 unless package B exports symbols from package X 17:35:46 Whoo-hoo there are other lispers in the world. 17:35:52 lboard: Source-path based error reporting is actually better. For example, if you have some line foo[i][j] = bar[i] * quux[i+k]; in Java, and you get an array out-of-bounce exception, you get the line number, but that doesn't help you much. 17:35:56 <_death> Harag: and such conflicts are always conflicts regarding symbols, nothing more 17:36:06 sbcl is not happy when hunchentoot = package x 17:36:15 lboard: In Slime, the actual dereference form that caused the exception would be highlighted. 17:36:21 <_death> stassats: huh? then those are the same symbols, hence no conflict 17:36:57 ok let me see if I can get the exact error again 17:37:46 _death: yeah, didn't think properly 17:37:54 i have an idea about parameters, let me know your views, like &rest and &key will it be nice to have &acc parameters meaning accumulators, those parameters are passed values only when the function is called recursively, from outside those parameters are not visible, this type of parameters will be helpfull for writing tail-recursive functions... 17:38:15 Q: Can I just ask a question or do I have to wait for a lull? 17:38:28 just ask. 17:38:30 WarWeasle: Ask anytime, 17:38:31 -!- matley [n=matley@193.204.39.77] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:38:36 tcr: I had the impression that lboard was saying that he gets line numbers instead of forms... but oh well, i'm not a native speaker :) 17:39:07 p_l: Err, right. 17:39:15 p_l: i'm not getting line numbers 17:39:34 lboard: You lost me 17:39:35 <_death> lboard: how do you know that a function is called recursively 17:39:37 lboard: Search the ECL mailing list archive for my lastname (rittweiler), I think you can get better error reporting with ECL. 17:39:43 lboard: I wouldn't find that useful. I generally solve that problem by writing a recursive function with accumulator arguments, then wrapping it in a function with an appropriate interface. 17:40:02 Great, I'm trying to figure out Allegro's licensing. Do I ever have the right to just distribute my exe on Windows? 17:40:31 <_death> lboard: you can use local functions for that style, anyway 17:40:35 tmh: with this we can avoid writing an additional function right? 17:40:37 lboard: I shortly looked at improving ECL's swank-backend, but then I didn't do it 17:41:22 WarWeasle: most of us are free implementation (sbcl/cmucl/clisp/ecl) users 17:41:45 lboard: you can do that with &optional 17:41:46 lboard: I understand that is what you are trying to accomplish, but I actually prefer separating the issue into an interface and an additional function. It's just my thought process. 17:41:53 you'd probably have to contact franz to get a definitive answer. 17:41:56 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:42:52 Ok, then is there a good Common lisp that can create exe's without making a HUGE file? (I normally use SBCL but distributing it might be hard for small apps) 17:43:15 ecl will compile to c and from c to an executable. 17:43:19 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:43:38 i'm not a windows user, though, so I can't speak to that platform. 17:43:42 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:43:43 ECL? I thought it was just a library. 17:44:02 it's an implementation. 17:44:08 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ 17:44:10 ECL on windows was very good for me. 17:44:23 Coool... I'll have to get it. 17:44:46 deego [n=user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 17:47:06 WarWeasle, make sure to edit msvc/Makefile to have ECL_THREADS = 1, if you need them. 17:47:37 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:39 doesn't it have some configure option? 17:48:03 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:48:11 -!- slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:48:25 I would, is there a prebuilt distribution? 17:48:30 lboard: Okay, I'm playing the clueless windows user with your HE-Box. I'll assume that a person downloading HE-Box has enough sense to actually read your page and get the 7z utility, but let's be honest, that might be a stretch. 17:49:10 Wait I have cygwin. 17:49:26 tmh: no worry; i'll soon make it .zip 17:49:37 Anyone here having an issue getting weblocks through clbuild? 17:49:56 Anyway, I extracted HE-Box and get a folder. So, I double click on the box batch file and get a blank *scratch* emacs buffer with the following message in the minibuffer: "Spawning child process: invalid argument" 17:49:59 tmh: if the user can't figure out how to open the file, is it really necessary to worry about them? I mean, how much lisp are they going to write... 17:50:04 I am trying to get mcclim to work on Debian stable (lenny). I follow the instructions to compile clx: (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :clim) (asdf:operate 'asdf:compile-op :clim-clx) but the second one errors out with Failed to find the WRITE-DATE of /var/cache/common-lisp-controller/1000/sbcl/slime/swank-loader.fasl. I do have slime and cl-swank installed 17:50:33 Fade: I struggle with that question as well. 17:52:32 deego: are you using the debian packages for these systems? 17:53:14 eish ...cant reproduce the problem...with the package dependencies...I wasted hours on sunday trying to fix it and now that I do it from scratch in 5 minutes everything works...*sigh*...thanx anyways guys 17:53:18 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:53:43 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:53:47 <_death> Harag: likely misinterning 17:53:48 Fade: yes 17:53:59 the one in Lenny stable 17:54:30 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@dcjmacbookpro.clark-communications.com] has quit [] 17:54:31 well, the defacto advice is that lisp lives in revision control, and you shouldn't use the prepackaged lisp systems except to bootstrap a working image. 17:54:37 Got to love ./configure --enable-threads 17:54:44 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 17:55:21 i'm a debian guy going way back and I gave up trying to work with the debian lisp packages very quickly 17:55:26 WarWeasle, do you build using MSVC or MinGW? 17:55:28 deego: look at clbuild 17:55:35 Fade: thanks 17:55:48 Does Cygwin come with MinGW or GCC? 17:55:53 lboard: Is it possible that my existing emacs installation is fouling up your HE-Box script and initialization? 17:56:03 WarWeasle, No. 17:56:08 I think you could prepackage lisp systems, but common-lisp-controller just somehow makes it impossible to build anything that comes from outside its own ecosystem 17:56:36 apt-get install sbcl darcs && darcs get http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/clbuild && cd clbuild && chmod +x clbuild && ./clbuild update sbcl && ./clbuild compile-implementation sbcl 17:56:54 WarWeasle, GCC on windows comes either with mingw, or with cygwin, so your question is somewhat malformed. 17:57:02 then you can do things like clbuild install mcclim 17:57:09 tmh: i dont think so, there is --no-init in the batch file 17:57:18 lboard: Yeah, I just saw that. 17:57:40 I must be using GCC since I don't see anything about MinGW. 17:57:48 are u running the batch file from the same directory where it is? 17:58:07 lboard: I'm just double clicking on it from the file manager. 17:58:13 WarWeasle, MinGW is a distribution /including/ GCC. 17:58:38 tmh: file-manager? what is it? explorer? 17:58:38 lboard: Just ran it from the command line, same result 17:58:51 lboard: Yeah, the built in explorer. 17:59:09 antifuchs: ping 17:59:41 BrianBek [n=BrianBek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:00:12 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:15 tmh: in emacs/site-init there is a file box.el; check it and change the path to point to ecl.exe 18:00:22 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:00:26 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 18:00:41 Yes, the package manager says I have the MinGW. 18:00:57 -!- stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-129-129.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:01:22 tmh: what version of windows you use? 18:01:28 XP 18:01:37 lboard: Windows XP, 32bit. 18:02:01 Whoops, lboard 18:02:03 what is the full path u extracted to 18:02:29 lboard: I extracted it to the Desktop 18:02:52 tmh: move it to somewhere like d:\ or e:\ 18:03:07 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-17-158.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 18:03:09 thm: move the who bunch 18:03:18 My ECL build just died... 18:03:19 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 18:03:21 tmh: whole 18:04:12 lboard: It's a path problem. I put it in C:\ and got the REPL. 18:04:28 I guess I ned to read the directions... 18:05:02 lboard: Who is your target audience? 18:05:53 tmh: those who have only access to windows in office! 18:05:57 -!- addled [n=adlirc@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 18:06:27 lboard: Are you expecting them to be comfortable using emacs? Have prior knowledge? 18:07:11 tmh: lisp is hard, so let them start hard 18:07:28 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:35 lisp isn't hard, it's just different. 18:07:39 Well, that's compatible with my coding philosophy. It was hard to write, it should be hard to read. :-) 18:08:18 And hard to use. 18:08:30 fade: different == hard; (eq different hard) 18:10:17 actually being hard is good; there will be only few lions; instead of millions of goats 18:10:23 lboard: I'm just asking because I think these efforts like lisp-in-a-box are great, it's just that my impression of a windows user is someone that has a tolerance for instructions that reduce to: Step 1. Double-click on the icon. Step 2. Enjoy! 18:10:29 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:11:08 If it doesn't work like that, they'll claim that it is cr@p. 18:12:14 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:36 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 18:12:38 tmh: yes, its up to them; 18:12:55 Oh, well. ECL doesn't seem to be buidling on my machine right now. I'll have to try again later. 18:12:58 tmh: did u tried to start server 18:13:06 Thanks for the info. 18:13:12 tmh: the simplest way to achieve that might be a vmware ``application'' 18:13:43 chandler [n=n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #lisp 18:13:57 sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:00 lboard: he-box and the server in it work for me 18:14:04 lboard: No. 18:14:24 tmh: try (hunchentoot:start-server :port 8080) 18:14:40 tmh: oof use : 18:15:04 Does anyone know who is responsible for clnet administration these days? 18:15:25 the common-lisp.net machine? 18:15:31 Yes. 18:15:34 lboard: seems to work. Windows firewall is complaining about it. :-) 18:15:37 i thought the tech.coop guys were managing it. 18:16:07 Oh, before I forget. I head there was a google lecture where someone explains how to recreate emacs in common lisp. Does anyone know about this? 18:16:19 dkcl [n=Dan@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 18:16:28 chandler: H4ns and drewc, I think. 18:16:37 pkhuong: Thanks. 18:16:52 head = heard 18:17:03 pkhuong: Probably. I'm of the opinion that if you are already using Windows, you are probably best served by evaluating the personal versions of LispWorks or Allegro and purchasing one if you decide to use lisp. 18:17:31 -!- chandler [n=n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has left #lisp 18:17:39 fwiw, after i left hunchentoot running for a few seconds vmware took over the cpu 18:18:55 tmh: click unblock 18:19:24 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:53 -!- sulo__ [n=sulo@p57B4B787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:20:57 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.171.120] has quit ["Induhvidual Quote: I heard that one out of the corner of my eye."] 18:21:46 lboard: Heh, I already clicked block and quit slime. I'll get it open again. Do you want me to check it with a web-browser? 18:22:08 Okay, the hunchentoot page is up on 8080 18:22:52 tmh: enjoy web programming with lisp on windows 18:23:09 lboard: or not. ;-) 18:24:26 I have windows in a VM because I need office to support clients. I will probably need to get LispWorks shortly to through a GUI on a program for windows. Otherwise, I do all of my development on RHEL. 18:24:37 s/through/throw/ 18:24:44 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:25:16 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:32 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-4fa63de254a59605] has joined #lisp 18:25:43 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:26:37 I'm trying to recreate something like emacs in 3D so I'm interested in how emacs (should) be structured. 18:27:00 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-116-19.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:20 WarWeasle: 3macs 18:27:29 It exists? 18:27:38 *dlowe* envisions a lisp composed of tetris-like 3d blocks 18:28:33 I've been calling mine qix. After the arcade game and I"m doing it "just for kicks". 18:29:10 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.206.160] has left #lisp 18:30:14 WarWeasle: Instead of 3D, why don't you add structured editing to slime ala DivaScheme: http://www.cs.brown.edu/research/plt/software/divascheme/ 18:31:23 I'd like something that adds function argument template into the buffer at point, replacing each argument with your typing and going to the next argument when a space is entered. 18:32:52 WarWeasle: no such thing exist 18:33:30 I was thinking it could be a unified way of working with ALL files. Anything we have can be displayed in 3 dimentions or less. 18:34:33 And eventually adding a "safe" lisp interpreter so you can run other people's data/code/files/things 18:35:09 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:35:25 tmh: I'm trying to watch the DivaScheme avi at work and my computer is not letting me. 18:36:16 What is it? 18:36:30 WarWeasle: I don't know what to tell you. Consider yourself lucky that it is not playing and you aren't getting caught goofing off at work? 18:36:59 WarWeasle: It's a structured editting mode for DrScheme. 18:37:30 lol 18:38:58 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 18:40:00 hmm... isn't paredit available for that on Emacs? 18:41:00 p_l: I use paredit, but it isn't a structured editing mode in the sense of DivaScheme. 18:41:33 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:41:52 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:42:13 I need to one day write a better configuration for paredit. I'm always put off by some of the keybindings 18:42:56 i use paredit, but it sometimes seems to work against me. 18:43:03 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:13 I have dreams of a structured editor that facilitates literate programming. Dreams, big dreams. 18:43:16 renovating a function for instance. it seems sort of difficult to change nesting. 18:43:22 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:43:47 -!- cmm- [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-63-130.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:44:01 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 18:44:22 But, I'm not being paid to believe in the power of my dreams, so I should get back to work. 18:44:38 That makes two of us. 18:45:17 hmm... make a general structured navigation+snippets library, then implement modes for the languages where it's possible... 18:45:27 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:45:55 does anybody know of a free standing program to pretty format lisp code for a blog...or some thing (plugin etc) that will work against a FREE wordpress account 18:45:55 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-156-192.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:21 -!- WarWeasle [n=beerb@208.4.144.212] has quit ["The weebles are coming! The WEEBLES ARE COMING!"] 18:46:43 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:13 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:22 Harag: I recall there was something for emacs that outputted html-colorised code based on current syntax highlighting 18:47:54 kewl I will google for it 18:47:57 thanx 18:48:49 Harag: Check on emacs wiki 18:49:00 k 18:51:46 -!- trekdanne [n=trekdann@unaffiliated/trekdanne] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:15 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:52:29 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:02 r1nu- [n=debian~@ppp-94-68-56-155.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:56:02 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:56:28 -!- ironChicken [n=richard@mx.lurk.org] has left #lisp 18:58:05 minion: out? 18:58:06 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``out''. 18:59:47 dcjackson [n=dcj@nat02.service.sv2.tellme.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 -!- Grey_Fox [n=chatzill@ppp118-208-142-163.lns10.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:00:07 does anyone remember that library that was supposed to provide an alternative to format? 19:00:48 it's OUT, in ytools 19:00:52 OUT. YTools is more googlable. 19:01:01 adeht wrote one, too. 19:01:02 ah, thank you 19:02:28 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:50 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 19:09:34 killerstorm [n=alex_miz@sputnik.donapex.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:19 p_l: this seems to be the one to use http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/HtmlFontify 19:17:45 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:18:22 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:42 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-99-23-190-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:15 -!- Bootvis [n=brj@80.57.37.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:26:31 -!- lboard [n=lboard@117.193.193.220] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 19:26:39 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 19:27:08 garg. why doesn't drscheme obey emacs keys?? 19:28:50 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 19:31:36 -!- killerstorm [n=alex_miz@sputnik.donapex.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:32:50 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-147-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 19:37:09 dcjackson_ [n=dcj@nat/microsoft/x-53ba000a7459bb4c] has joined #lisp 19:37:43 -!- dcjackson [n=dcj@nat02.service.sv2.tellme.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:16 dcjackson [n=dcj@nat02.service.sv2.tellme.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:33 cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:28 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 cmo-0 [n=alaa@86.99.141.145] has joined #lisp 19:43:08 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:43:35 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #lisp 19:43:41 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:43:43 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has left #lisp 19:43:52 hello, I'm looking for comp.lang.lisp archives, last time i got help here with this link "ftp://ftp.informatimago.com/pub/lisp-mirrors/www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/ai-repository/ai/pubs/news/comp.lang.lisp/", which is only up to 97, is there any archive that i can download from 97 to 2004 or (more recent)? 19:43:59 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45:53 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.180.120] has joined #lisp 19:46:01 i'd look at google groups. 19:47:06 I'm using it, but offline no way 19:47:10 what should I use for tcp and udp sockets on windows? 19:48:22 clbuild is a breath of fresh air after asdf-install 19:48:59 also many articles won't allow me expanding some contributers entries. 19:49:45 GrayShade: usocket for tcp 19:50:02 don't know whether iolib works on windows 19:50:04 moreover i want to be able to edit the articles and compile my own notes while studying CLHS and reading comp.lang.lisp 19:50:53 cmo-0: well, you can download them from google 19:51:01 not in archive, though 19:51:14 well, google groups for archives, but it sounds like you want an isp with a real news spool if you're going to be posting. 19:51:27 one by one (or 10 by 10) what a drag 19:51:48 Fade: you can post from google 19:52:05 i haven't posted in news since I was an nntp administrator. :) 19:52:31 you CAN post with Google (after a hiatus of about five years) but it tendts to be a bit unreliable 19:52:38 dmiles [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:55 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:17 (dejanews used to allow posting, but google groups didn't for some time after they bought it) 19:54:00 *stassats* only posted to c.l.l via google several times 19:54:13 -!- dcjackson_ [n=dcj@nat/microsoft/x-53ba000a7459bb4c] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:54:31 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:00 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.102.37] has joined #lisp 19:55:17 though in practice it's the only way for a lot of people to access Usenet 19:55:30 most old ISPs have nntp servers, but newer ones rarely seem to bother 19:55:36 marginal interest, I suppose 19:55:59 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 19:56:22 managing news is a major headache. 19:56:43 traffic volume is insane, and 90% of it is warez and very distasteful pr0n. 19:56:43 rsynnott: Most users learn that there is something other than Web only because they use IM and e-mail :) 19:57:20 beerb [n=beerb@208.4.144.212] has joined #lisp 19:57:42 -!- beerb is now known as WarWeasle 19:57:48 it's possible to search google groups, but greping for Kent, Erik, Barry and a lot others is more accessible with local archives, not to mention when google server goes nut and doubt that you are a robot! ;) 19:58:21 <_death> author:ZeName 20:05:52 rsynnott: 20:06:27 rsynnott: sorry, I was too quick with the tab key 20:07:38 tsk 20:07:39 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.180.120] has quit [] 20:09:23 alaa_ [n=alaa@86.99.141.145] has joined #lisp 20:11:36 josemanuel [n=josemanu@231.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:12:54 -!- alaa_ [n=alaa@86.99.141.145] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:13:06 -!- cmo-0 [n=alaa@86.99.141.145] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:13:27 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:35 jao [n=jao@250.Red-79-155-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:00 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:16:13 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.237.136] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:18:06 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-131-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:20:40 Does clbuild build SBCL with threads? 20:22:04 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:05 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:23:09 schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:23:31 ehird: if you're on a system that sbcl can thread. 20:23:57 currently linux x86/x86_64 and osx on the same platforms. 20:24:30 I've had better experiences with threads on fbsd than darwin, frankly. 20:24:31 wait, no freebsd? 20:24:46 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has left #lisp 20:24:48 -!- eslick [n=eslick@dhcp-23-106.media.mit.edu] has quit ["Reverting to analog"] 20:25:34 maybe freebsd as well. 20:25:51 -!- stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-17-158.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:28:10 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:29:27 freebsd had threading as far as I can remember 20:29:54 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:55 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:30:04 s/freebsd/sbcl+freebsd/ 20:32:22 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:54 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@231.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 20:35:20 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:19 The lisp computer algebra systems (Axiom and derivatives, Maxim) don't seem to be usable as libraries in other lisp programs. Are there ones that are usable as libraries? My computer algebra requirements are very simple, so I'm considering just writing custom routines to perform the symbolic manipulations. How approachable is basic computer algebra in lisp? 20:41:02 well, there's a lot of prior art. 20:41:10 emacs calc.el comes to mind. 20:42:12 maxima itself 20:42:17 *Fade* shrugs 20:42:43 tmh: You could reuse some of the code in PAIP 20:43:00 Fade: Thanks, that's the problem, I don't need a full blown system, I just need some basic stuff to simplify what I'm doing. 20:43:20 p_l: I have that sitting on my shelf and haven't taken the time to work through it. I'll take a look, thanks. 20:43:22 well, you should be able to extract functions from maxima. 20:43:50 Fade: And the GPL with them. I don't want to get into some licensing mess. 20:44:03 heh 20:44:36 tmh: If you want to load Maxima and not breach GPL, load it in external process :) 20:45:01 *p_l* did that for an end-of-year project in High School 20:45:32 this doesn't give you an API, though, other than the text format used by maxima 20:45:35 p_l: PAIP, Chapter 8, Symbolic Mathematics: A Simplification Program. 20:45:54 I will bet that this will give me enough of a start to solve my little problem. 20:45:58 tmh: Yeah. You could expand from it :) 20:46:21 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:47:14 I found several full blown computer algebra texts on Amazon, but wanted to dip my toe in the water before committing to an entire textbook. 20:47:52 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-26-122.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:53 -!- Fuufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:57:50 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:18 Heston [n=heston@unaffiliated/heston] has joined #lisp 20:59:53 http://www.fukung.net/v/11659/f85db7dd6f637a582a6154387525364e.jpg 21:03:06 mega1 [n=mega@53d83850.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:03:13 eh... 21:03:22 http://lisp.tech.coop/ -- does anyone here own this? :P 21:03:41 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-127.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 21:04:58 -!- Heston [n=heston@unaffiliated/heston] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:12 http://t3x.org/books/ 21:05:40 kleppari: AFAIK drewc had something to do with tech.coop, he might know 21:06:04 kleppari: lisp.tech.coop is long gone 21:06:58 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:07:15 was it a public repl? 21:07:22 as in, there has not been a website at that address in 4 years or so, when it held the contents of the ALU wiki 21:07:30 Fade: no, a cliki instance 21:07:34 ah 21:08:11 ah, ok 21:08:14 is ucw dead? 21:09:00 well, seems like the documentation page there is, anyways :P 21:09:22 Vicfred [n=Vicfred@189.228.56.149] has joined #lisp 21:10:21 ucw dead? never. I maintain it :) 21:10:43 kleppari: but, the docs on the website are ancient and i have not updated the page. 21:11:04 you should do a '20 minute wiki' screencast. ;) 21:11:12 you know, with your copious free time. 21:11:18 there is a #ucw, and there is a manual in the ucw-core darcs repo 21:12:07 -!- WarWeasle [n=beerb@208.4.144.212] has left #lisp 21:12:09 Fade: actually, i've ported cliki to ucw and it will be discussed in the next chapter of the manual 21:12:26 -!- BrianBek [n=BrianBek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Now doing something completely different"] 21:12:27 (it will also run cliki.net once it's finished) 21:12:46 drewc: sweet! 21:12:51 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A916.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:08 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@82.49.211.68] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 21:13:13 are there new features? like diff to previous edit 21:13:23 drewc: ah, ok, great. Thanks for the info :) 21:14:09 stassats: T. diffs, previews, and all the goodies will be includded 21:14:18 great 21:14:52 *stassats* doesn't like eye-diff 21:15:43 who does. The current cliki is definitely lacking in that area. 21:19:57 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 21:20:42 Is there a way to 'compile-implementation sbcl' but bootstrap with an sbcl not named 'sbcl'? 21:22:30 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-127.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:23:29 ehird -- look at clbuild/clbuild.conf.default 21:23:37 OK 21:23:38 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:02 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 21:24:09 ah, set SBCL=foobarbaz, compile-implementation, then remove that 21:24:10 right? 21:25:29 sbcl can be built with sbcl, cmucl, and openmcl. 21:25:41 there are claims that it can be built with recent versions of abcl, too. 21:25:49 ywa 21:25:50 *yes 21:25:53 gah, I keep making that typo 21:26:27 although I have built sbcl in the distant past with clisp... 21:27:07 you have sbcl but the filename isn't sbcl? 21:27:52 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:28:05 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-92-101-135-252.vologda.ru] has quit ["I wish the toaster to be happy, too."] 21:28:21 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 21:29:03 Fade: I'm bootstrapping with an uninstalled binary, so I added this to my clbuild.conf: 21:29:08 SBCL=/Users/ehird/Downloads/sbcl-1.0.23-x86-64-darwin/run-sbcl.sh 21:30:56 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:31:57 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:23 oh wait 21:32:25 you can just do: 21:32:32 clbuild compile-implementation sbcl /Users/ehird/Downloads/sbcl-1.0.23-x86-64-darwin/run-sbcl.sh 21:33:01 are you on an OSX box? 21:33:58 yep 21:34:10 the bootstrap seems to be working fine, hooray 21:37:02 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:38:52 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF098F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:43:29 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-184-124.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 21:43:29 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 21:43:38 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:05 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:49:24 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has quit [] 21:51:08 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A1B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:39 -!- tib [n=tl@89-180-53-174.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:52:34 tib [n=tl@89.180.89.75] has joined #lisp 21:54:53 -!- r0bby_ is now known as r0bby 21:58:49 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:03 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-187-170.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:38 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-131-159.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:04:46 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:05:57 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:06:08 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:06:40 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:09:56 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 22:10:12 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:10:59 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:12:38 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 22:16:27 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d83850.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:16:31 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.102.37] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:18:26 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 22:20:33 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 22:21:26 -!- demmeln [i=demmeln@atradig114.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:22:04 Are there any known problems with hunchentoot 1.0 and sbcl on Mac OS X? 22:22:39 if it's osx on ppc, sbcl doesn't thread. run it in clozure. 22:22:48 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 22:22:48 rvirding [n=rvirding@h252n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:56 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:38 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:51 Fade: I'm on intel. It looks like Hunchentoot drops the connection. Firefox just displays a blank page, Safari presents an error about dropping connections and a busy server. 22:24:54 dcjackson_ [n=dcj@nat/microsoft/x-6ff766dd764f7ea9] has joined #lisp 22:25:15 Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-197.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:25:34 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:00 sulo__ [n=sulo@p57B4B787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:20 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.192.22] has joined #lisp 22:28:36 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:33:21 hi fellows 22:33:46 can i get a hint/link/something as to how one modifies a list when it it passed as a parameter to a function ? 22:33:51 think http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/exercises/lisp-exs.html #4 :) 22:34:10 I don't have the slighest clue how to *change* the parameter I was passed 22:34:22 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-26-148.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:34:26 you don't change parameter, you change its content 22:34:42 (setf (car list) 'foo) 22:35:22 Okay... got it working. One dependency of hunchentoot was outdated 22:36:09 -!- sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:37:06 Seb: there are some list accessors, like car, cdr, nth, etc. they work with setf 22:37:15 stassats: wow 22:37:31 stassats: I understand that line you pasted, and what it would do, but i don't see *how* 22:37:50 Seb: modifying a list passed into a function as a parameter is bad form. 22:37:51 stassats: so, changing (car list) actually changes list, then ? 22:38:00 copy the list, and modify the copy. 22:38:00 Seb: change car of first cell in the list to car of the second, the same with cdr 22:38:15 Fade: I know, but the exercice in itself is worthwhile, see the questions I'm asking myself now ? ;) 22:38:30 Seb: it modifies cons cells, hence the list too 22:39:10 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-195-3.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:39:10 stassats: yeah, and I guess that's where the fault lies on my side... too little understanding of cons cells 22:39:38 -!- repnop [n=repnop@ppp-69-239-23-237.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:39:57 repnop [n=repnop@ppp-69-239-23-237.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:58 stassats: ok, well you gave me enough that I now at least know *where* to look 22:40:01 stassats: thank you very much ! 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