00:00:15 fe[nl]ix: Thanks, I did try makunbound and that didn't help, I will try unintern. 00:00:17 LiamH: (sb-int:clear-info symbol :variable) might do the trick. 00:00:26 rpg - slime-define-keys 00:00:38 ayrnieu: thanks. 00:01:10 -!- sely [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:01:50 nyef: missing argument: class type name 00:02:19 Hrm. 00:02:53 Maybe clear-info-value, then? 00:03:06 nyef: no worries, unintern works 00:03:14 Yeah, probably easiest. 00:03:42 Figuring out the globaldb is on my list of things to do. 00:05:12 ayrnieu: Hm. Not exactly the same --- slime-define-key used to automagically supply the keymap. Perhaps that's why it got deprecated... 00:06:13 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 00:07:21 rpg - if you open ChangeLog and search for 'define-key', you'll see Helmut's entry about it. 00:07:58 ayrnieu: thanks. 00:08:32 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:08:34 harsha_v_ [n=chatzill@drl042.wlan.sas.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 00:09:07 ayrnieu: Actually it says "deleted." 00:09:16 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:29 just that line does, but there's the whole entry. 00:09:50 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 00:10:49 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 00:11:13 Other than that, I see only:"Use keymap inheritance to share bindings in various modes." 00:11:39 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:41 kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:11:46 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:16:06 Looks like to a first approximation I should use slime-parent-map where I had slime-define-key. 00:16:45 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:20:25 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:06 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has joined #lisp 00:23:51 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-100-210.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:25:38 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/554949/let-versus-let-in-lisp ;; the question: "have you ever actually needed LET as opposed to LET* ?" The four answers: "No." 00:26:00 of course they each found their own way to say "No." 00:26:57 No, of course not. All you have to do to be able to use LET* in place of any given LET is to rename a lot of your variables, and possibly add a bunch of one-time variables to defer some bindings. 00:27:02 -!- Spike__ [n=Spike@254.Red-79-152-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Saliendo"] 00:27:19 It's irritating, but not exactly a -problem-, you know? 00:27:45 Have you ever actually needed LET as opposed to LAMBDA and procedure application? No, of course not! 00:27:55 See? 00:28:15 "It's a shame turing machines are so lousy at I/O." 00:30:07 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["G'night!"] 00:30:26 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:16 If I cared, and if this `Stack Overflow' web site didn't beleaguer me with obnoxious insistince that I am an idiot for wanting my browser not to execute random JavaScript code from the internet, I'd add that LET* says more than LET, and in programs where what LET* says is not meant, using LET* rather than LET obscures the intent of the program, making it harder to understand. 00:32:42 Riastradh: I think that's only so because LET is the default 00:33:18 if LET* were the shorter name and the common practice, people would say "wait, parallel let? what are they avoiding here?" 00:33:45 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279633876.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:34:25 This makes a greater difference in Scheme where the expressions of LET bindings are evaluated in an unspecified order. LET* marks a semantic dependency that is not apparent from local syntactic analysis. 00:34:49 parallel is a good default. 00:35:28 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:35:28 -!- hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279633876.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:35:29 hugod__ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279633876.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:36:08 New dumb slime question -- does slime-mode-map now replace lisp-mode-map for all uses? 00:36:12 an argument against "shouldn't I use LET* by default, to highlight the uncommon desire for parallel binding?" http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/657926742b7d8978 00:37:15 *rpg* uses slime just often enough for his .emacs to bitrot every time he tries... 00:37:21 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.4] has joined #lisp 00:37:52 #2 is pretty much the only reason I use LET 00:38:43 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:39:33 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:41:37 we use bind which is basically let* and i've never found myself annoyed by #2. in general i agree to that way of thinking, but in practice and with let* i'm happy with bind 00:41:47 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-178-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:42:56 i'm trying to compile a script but it keeps crashing while loading a .so file. is there a way to let it return a trace of the last call? 00:43:51 the error i'm getting is " undefined symbol: __gxx_personality_v0" so it seems like there's a mix up between g++ and gcc 00:43:58 but i want to know where the last call is. 00:44:19 mun: are you sure you're in the right channel? 00:44:24 attila_lendvai: yeah, but looking for dependencies is my first reflex when seeing let*. I ran into it when looking at someone else's code (in that case, it was more of a deprecated let* turned let) 00:44:26 which implementation is this? By 'crash' do you mean that it drops you back to the Unix shell? 00:44:31 pkhuong: yeah, i'm compiling a lisp script 00:44:49 mun: what implementation is this? 00:44:59 sykopomp: it's ACL 00:45:54 ayrnieu: it's ACL. yes, it fails to compile and drops me back to shell. to be more specific, i'm trying to run make and compile a program. 00:46:12 and in the process, it compiles some c++ code, link it and loads it. 00:46:27 but while loading, i get the " undefined symbol: __gxx_personality_v0" error and get dropped to shell. 00:46:41 so i want to see what the last call is. 00:46:44 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:29 So what makes you think this is happening in lisp? I'd first make sure the makefile and your toolchain are correct. 00:47:51 sykopomp: we use long variable names and never rebind variables with the same name (using a pure let)... mix that with slime's C-s C-w match highlighting and we are content... 00:48:53 pkhuong: i'm pretty sure. :) 00:50:45 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:52:59 is there no way to show a trace of the last call upon termination? 00:53:15 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:53:34 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-178-149.netcologne.de] has quit [] 00:54:45 mun: it seems hard to get support about things like that in this channel. You might have much better luck if you contacted Allegro directly. 00:54:52 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [""The problem with the world is fools and fanatics are so sure of themselves and wiser people are full of doubts. - Bertrand R] 00:55:32 sykopomp: ooh, alright. thanks 00:56:36 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 00:58:36 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:58:37 -!- MinnowTaur [n=chatzill@ip68-109-196-203.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:58:49 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C333.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:59:35 MinnowTaur_ [n=chatzill@ip68-109-196-203.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:18 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 01:00:52 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:40 (loop for n upto 10 when (evenp n) collect it) => (T T T T T T) 01:01:45 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:02:02 -!- MinnowTaur_ is now known as MinnowTaur 01:02:37 collect n? 01:03:29 I know, but I just learned 'it'. 01:03:46 PCL doesn't talk about it. 01:03:56 ah 01:04:03 *sykopomp* likes LOOP less and less... 01:04:17 -!- dwave [n=ask@212251241125.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 01:05:40 sykopomp: and what do you like more and more? iterate? 01:06:28 stassats`: I haven't actually used iterate, but I'm pretty annoyed by having to use special keywords and worrying about the semantics of those, as opposed to simply using regular lisp structures. 01:07:11 my loops end up being something like (loop ... do (when ...) collect ..) or such 01:07:40 (well, I don't think that works, but the point is that I prefer using :do and slapping an s-exp after it... 01:07:43 ) 01:08:54 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/bc7772aa5ab1f3e4 ;; Naggum's WHEREAS idea, contra AIF and let-if 01:08:56 cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:32 I just find the semantics of loop to be a bit confusing sometimes, and I find it a bit unnecessary. I don't actually hate loop or mind using it when I want to pull off a loop. 01:09:46 (and the arguments over LOOP have gotten pretty old at this point) 01:10:11 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has quit [Success] 01:10:30 what about format syntax? 01:10:56 format is perfect. Except for the OOM errors you get so easily when you screw it up. 01:11:25 'out of memory'? 01:11:54 (format nil "~A~@{, A~}" 1 2 3 4) (format nil "~{~~A, ~}" '(1 2 3 4)) (format nil "[~{~A~@[, ~1:*~]~}]" '(1 2 3 4)) 01:11:58 yep. 01:12:15 I pretty much rely on recipes when trying to do fancy things with format. I don't mind it that much, but I'll more often break things down into several FORMATs than have one massive FORMAT do all the looping and stuff... (unless I find a recipe that does it already) 01:13:01 I really like (format nil "~{~A~^, ~}" '(a b c)) => "a, b, c" 01:13:25 except that it's actually "A, B, C" 01:13:55 freethink [n=chatzill@adsl-224-123-83.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:11 format does some pretty awesome things though (so does loop)... I just find them too confusing to bother with most of the time. 01:14:15 "~(~{~A~^, ~}~)" 01:14:49 stassats - yeah :-) I reproduce json arrays and objects with format in http://gist.github.com/62946 01:15:17 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:15:54 but that's also an interesting format string when I notice that those are ~( ~) and not ( ) 01:16:09 yep, that's a case conversion 01:18:00 -!- cpape [n=user@88.130.190.74] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:18:41 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:13 sykopomp: my colleagues and I are moving to iterate from LOOP, very happily. We liked loop's power, but iterate seems just as powerful and much nicer in some ways. 01:21:21 rpg: that sounds nice. I read through the ITER manual and it seemed promising. I'd have to start using it to get a feel for it, though. 01:21:22 sykopomp: Drew McDermott has a formatter that is to format what iterate is to loop --- much more lispy. Unfort I must go offline now. I should be back tmrw, though. 01:21:47 -!- milanj [n=milan@91.148.92.61] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:21:55 sykopomp: all it takes is one or two multiple-values loops and you'll be hooked! And emacs can indent it properly! ;-) 01:22:09 g'night. 01:22:13 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 01:26:23 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:26:35 thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 01:28:20 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 01:30:31 [ot] anyone knows if ms windows would work when installed under vmware and then run outside vmware? 01:31:13 blbrown_ [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:16 compare: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/445f63365f4b5f3d http://cybertiggyr.com/gene/pdl/time.lisp 01:31:20 weirdo: Not Win2k, and every other version might need some settling, but it could be possible... Oh! And mind your power-management settings. 01:31:32 (or rather, scan through the second with the former in mind) 01:31:41 nyef, would winxp work? 01:31:52 i don't care much about power mgmt, it's a desktop, not a laptop 01:32:19 You'll care as soon as it fails to boot for whatever reason. 01:33:04 Oh, and you'll probably have to re-authenticate it. 01:34:40 i suppose i'll have to plug out the main hard disk with linux. the damn thing keeps overwriting all MBRs 01:35:00 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:35:08 ... Where's the problem with that? Or don't you have a separate /boot partition to which you can install grub? 01:35:15 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-217.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:03 -!- blbrown_ [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36:35 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 01:36:40 i do, but booting windows on another partition from grub seems to just hang the machine 01:37:02 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 01:37:08 Something's wierd about that, then... 01:37:16 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:36 Is the windows partion formatted with NTFS? 01:38:29 yep 01:38:54 i've settled for switching the boot disk priority in bios every time 01:41:01 Have you got a copy of "Microsoft Windows Internals"? 01:41:30 rogen [i=user@pool-71-251-180-45.nrflva.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:59 no 01:42:18 i'm not interested in windows other than its ability to run video games 01:42:52 To bad, it has a piece by piece description of the boot sequene 01:44:17 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 01:44:58 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:16 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit [No route to host] 01:50:13 *hefner* hates stdcall 01:53:28 -!- rogen [i=user@pool-71-251-180-45.nrflva.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 01:54:26 milanj [n=milan@212.69.1.76] has joined #lisp 01:56:18 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:56:52 Is there a slime function which re-compile all files? (I might have asked this question.) 01:57:18 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:21 all files of what? 01:59:20 (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op sys :force t) should work if using asdf 01:59:30 but i think it will recompile all dependencies too 01:59:35 stassats`: When we edit macro or compiled function, there is a case we want to re-compile files which uses the macro or compiled function, right? What's the best way to re-compile all the related files? 01:59:39 yep, it will 02:00:50 tomoyuki28jp: C-c C-w m on macros name, and then C-c C-k in the xref buffer 02:00:56 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:01:05 but it is not guaranteed to work 02:01:14 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:02:16 stassats`: I see, thanks for the info. 02:02:29 there's no C-c C-w in new slime :( 02:02:36 xristos: thanks! 02:02:40 weirdo: oh really? 02:02:45 yep 02:02:48 I gotta check if mine has. 02:02:49 weirdo: no, it is 02:03:04 it says 'C-c C-w is undefined' 02:03:39 do multiple repls work for you in current slime ? 02:03:50 it can be in the contrib you don't have loaed 02:04:07 xristos: for one lisp instance? 02:04:10 yes 02:04:40 it used to be you could run (swank:create-server port :dont-close t) 02:04:58 then do multiple slime-connects and get multiple repls on different threads for the same image 02:05:12 do presentations work with mrepl? 02:05:15 not for me 02:05:32 also mrepl throws end-of-file condition if i give it empty input 02:05:52 and i cant get more than 1 of them 02:06:51 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.69.1.76] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:07:09 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:17 hmm, it works, i modified slime.el accidentally, breaking it 02:07:58 can you commit the fix 02:08:30 sulo_ [n=sulo@p57B4B5D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:08:30 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 02:09:10 mrepl would be really useful if presentations worked 02:09:41 exu0 [n=u@dslb-084-056-157-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:18 cYmen_ [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 02:14:09 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-167-104.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 02:14:19 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-176.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:09 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-143-169.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:15:38 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:16:08 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-155-205.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 02:17:08 -!- harsha_v_ [n=chatzill@drl042.wlan.sas.upenn.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17:50 harsha_v_ [n=chatzill@evn060.wlan.dental.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 02:18:35 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 02:19:27 p4r0l3 [n=par0le@unaffiliated/par0le] has joined #lisp 02:20:20 anyone got a free minute to help a struggling lisp novice w/ a mutual-recursion problem? 02:20:31 Only if you describe your problem precisely! 02:20:40 If you have code, show it with lisppaste: 02:20:41 lisppaste: url 02:20:41 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 02:21:40 p4r0l3 pasted "mutual-recursion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75620 02:22:16 i'm trying to take a term & return the variable(s) present in the term 02:22:48 but for some reason, function calls in my code are regarded as variables 02:23:24 (is-var x) would return true if (atom x) is true, else nil 02:25:09 (vars-in-wff x) returns a ?set? (list 02:25:10 without duplications) of the variable symbols used in the well-formed term x. Thus, 02:25:11 (vars-in-wff ?(f (g u ?(a b c)) v)) returns a set containing u and v. To be pre- 02:25:13 cise, it returns either (u v) or (v u) 02:25:18 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B67C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:25:23 that's what i'm trying to achieve 02:25:48 why did you wrap everything inside a (mutual-recursion ...) form? 02:26:07 non-toplevel defuns don't make much sense 02:26:33 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:26:44 solely b/c i'm supposed to for my class 02:26:50 sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:11 you're asking us to do your homework? 02:29:11 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:29:33 no i'm trying to ask why my code might interpret function calls as variables 02:29:38 that's what's bugging me 02:29:49 what's the error? 02:30:17 function calls get returned in my list of "variables" 02:30:32 what do you mean by 'function calls'? 02:30:50 you do know that atom is everthing but list, don't you? 02:31:08 well yes 02:31:44 if i were to feed my code a term such as `(f (g u `(a b c)) v)) it returns (f g) 02:31:50 not the (u v) i'm looking for 02:31:59 i'm just looking for insight into why this happens 02:32:40 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:34:12 p4r0l3: try (atom (lambda () nil)) 02:34:16 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:34:50 -!- sellout- [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:35:59 sely [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:23 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:23 p4r0l3: so, you are looking to the not first items of not qouted lists? 02:36:27 -!- cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 02:36:35 s/to the/for the/ 02:36:37 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:37:31 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:37:35 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 02:38:40 -!- harsha_v_ [n=chatzill@evn060.wlan.dental.upenn.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:38:45 stassats`: yes 02:38:45 auclairb_ [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 02:41:03 sykopomp: ? 02:41:07 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:41:29 p4r0l3: your 'varuable' check returns T for functions. 02:41:36 variabl& 02:41:44 variable* 02:42:12 it does syntax analysis only, afaiu 02:43:01 well (atom `(f)) returns nil as it should 02:43:20 (atom `f) returns true 02:43:42 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:47 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 02:46:53 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:49:15 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A245A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:50:50 harsha_v_ [n=chatzill@66.250.143.213] has joined #lisp 02:51:30 stassats annotated #75620 "something like this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75620#1 02:51:41 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 02:51:52 p4r0l3: that's for you 02:54:18 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has joined #lisp 02:56:01 stassats`: exactly! good idea using append, i was getting a bunch of excess garbage before 02:56:51 stassats`: thanks for the help 02:56:56 benny` [n=benny@i577A0C1E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:57:27 p4r0l3 annotated #75620 "what i'd reached" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75620#2 02:57:54 pretty close to what you did, but w/o the append. 03:00:50 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:36 Hmm, for (directory) in CL, I notice for some reason it doesn't show the files in the directory. Just the directories themselves. What function am I missing? 03:02:40 -!- harsha_v_ [n=chatzill@66.250.143.213] has left #lisp 03:04:54 TDT: (directory "C:/foo/*/") is what I do to make it work :-P 03:04:58 TDT - directory takes a pathname designator, which is not like a simple unix "/path/to/dir" 03:05:02 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-155-205.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:05:26 cl-fad:list-directory is a better way 03:06:11 (directory "/tmp/*") -- that's what I've been trying. 03:06:19 ayrnieu: sometimes you a just want a simple, shot and wrong answer :-P 03:07:29 TDT: sbcl groks that * on win32 and linux for me 03:07:57 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:35 freethink_ [n=chatzill@72.14.228.1] has joined #lisp 03:10:31 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0C77.versanet.de] has quit [No route to host] 03:10:34 -!- freethink_ [n=chatzill@72.14.228.1] has quit [Client Quit] 03:12:13 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-58-39.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:13:22 are there any reports on the cliki server; i.e. what kind of traffic, what kind of maintenance scripts and watch dogs, performance under heavy load, how often are the server processes restarted, etc? 03:14:01 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:36 -!- EXetoC [i=EXetoC@c-cc92e155.1422-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 03:16:34 is there a stat function in cl-fad? 03:16:52 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:41 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:17:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75623 -- Here's the code I'm trying to do, just to list everything (files and directories). Is there something I'm doingtotally wrong there? 03:17:49 Fade: it's in sb-posix, fad is here http://weitz.de/cl-fad/#list-directory 03:18:57 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:19:38 -!- freethink [n=chatzill@adsl-224-123-83.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:19:55 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:22:01 \o/ cl-i18n 03:22:38 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:42 evan__ [n=evan@65-183-142-159-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:59 -!- evan__ is now known as eflynn 03:26:51 Hi. which is in style, car and cdr, or first and rest? (or does it matter?) 03:27:14 <_death> it depends 03:27:37 depends on what? 03:27:44 eflynn - first/rest suggests more to me that you're dealing with a list. 03:27:54 eflynn: first/rest you're working with a list, car/cdr say you're working with a cons cell (all lists are cons cells, but not all cons cells are "lists") 03:28:11 ahh ok 03:28:16 i see 03:29:38 gotta lazy lisper parsing :-) "The -> can be an arbitrary unquoted symbol name."; this is for a foo -> bar production. i contend that lispers hate writing parsers for infix expressions, that's why they make broken ones. 03:29:43 -!- auclairb_ [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:29:49 gotta LOVE lazy lisper parsing .. 03:30:53 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has quit [Client Quit] 03:31:02 how about a more lispy redundant infix symbol? the dot. '(foo . bar) sounds good to me as a production, and I can use assoc. 03:32:13 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 03:32:35 <_death> you can use assoc in either case, but you can't have (foo . bar zot) (though you can have (foo . (bar [.] zot))) 03:33:35 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:33:51 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:29 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:36:42 srcerer_ [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:38 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has joined #lisp 03:39:33 ,(let ((lain '(lain))) (setf (cdr lain) lain)) 03:40:16 With the post Iv'e done earlier, I can get the link again, does anyone know what I'm doing wrong with what I'm going for? I went so far as load the exact code from PCL chapter 15, and ran into the same issue. 03:40:26 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:41:26 ozy` - those are neat, but I think a generator or a series is more robust. 03:42:11 ozy` - also, say (list 'lain) if you intend to modify the list. 03:42:17 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:42:32 HIT AND RUN LISP ADVICE 03:42:43 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:45 *ozy`* is loud and obnoxious 03:42:53 connection trouble? 03:43:46 no, irssi stupidity. 03:44:11 s/(setf (cdr lain) lain)/(nconc lain lain)/ 03:44:20 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:56 the guy on /prog/ used setf 03:45:08 but he probably knows about as much CL as I do, anyway 03:45:12 though, i don't know what you are talking about 03:45:16 nothing 03:45:26 ozy`: you're taking programming advice from 4chan? 03:45:30 :| 03:45:44 the programming equivalent of bathroom graffiti and fraternity parties 03:45:50 ozy`: setf is ok, nconc is just looks better 03:45:50 sykopomp: not advice as such 03:46:32 stassats: gotcha 03:46:34 '#1=(lain . #1#) is shorter, anyway 03:47:01 and I have no idea what it means 03:47:04 I mean 03:47:07 I see it 03:47:10 but I don't believe it 03:47:13 *ozy`* explodes 03:47:28 clhs #n 03:47:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm 03:48:52 clhs 2.4.8.15 03:48:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dho.htm 03:52:05 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 03:52:19 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:53:00 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:53:21 -!- benny` is now known as benny 04:00:38 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:01 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:01:45 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:16 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:55 hi 04:07:17 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:07:45 i'm trying to load a c++ shared object using :ld, but i keep getting an error saying "undefined symbol: __gxx_personality_v0" [condition type: FILE-ERROR] does anyone know what's wrong? 04:07:55 i'm using :ld file.so 04:08:50 *schmx* has not the faintest clue what :ld is. 04:08:50 please paste the CL code that throws the error. 04:08:58 it's something in ACL. 04:09:08 oh yum :) 04:09:14 ayrnieu: i've just tried doing ":ld file.so" 04:09:25 and the shared object is supposed to be a c++ shared object 04:09:36 oh, :ld is a command at ACL's repl? 04:09:55 does acl support c++ shared objects? 04:10:06 ayrnieu: yes, it's a top-level command for loading 04:10:18 stassats: i think so... 04:10:37 mun, please consider asking Franz about this. 04:11:03 right. okay 04:11:33 is ACL supposed to be unpopular? 04:11:35 mun: sounds like a problem involving a C++ name mangling scheme 04:11:53 mun: this is _free_node 04:11:54 ozy`: yeah, that error seems to be caused by a mix up of c and c++ code 04:11:59 (C++ is notorious among compiler writers for subtle interoperability problems) 04:12:28 (on top of every other problem it causes, naturally) 04:14:42 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #lisp 04:16:32 mun: ACL is a proprietary lisp. It has a support team. Why don't you ask ACL's support team or consult its documentation for this stuff? 04:17:15 you asked this earlier, too, and it's unlikely the answer will change too much. I still am yet to see anyone in this channel getting support for ACL-related stuff. 04:17:27 okay 04:18:15 mun: ACL is a fine top-shelf lisp, and so is its support website 04:20:03 mun: not even C can call C++ without some touch up; you might have to declare storage class "external C", etc. before you can link to C++ dlls 04:20:03 fusss i wouldn't call it top-shelf 04:20:24 it doesn't support true multithreading on any platform 04:20:32 (neither does lispworks for that matter) 04:20:53 LW is getting native threads, for now it does green threads, iirc 04:21:59 well they have to justify the thousand euro per platform somehow 04:22:14 and they aren't doing a good job up till now 04:23:28 xristos: franz has "os-threads" according to their documentation. http://franz.com/support/documentation/6.0/doc/multiprocessing.htm#mp-intro-1 04:23:47 can they run concurrently? 04:24:08 lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has joined #lisp 04:24:09 you must have missed the part where it says only one thread can run lisp code 04:24:23 and the other one that says os-threads on windows only 04:24:32 it DOES? 04:24:35 i'd say thats pretty piss poor 04:24:55 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:25:11 eff me dead, yeah 04:26:02 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.198.192] has quit [Client Quit] 04:27:05 it all makes sense now, the scieneer guy had a niche market 04:27:10 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:33 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:29:57 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 04:30:11 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 04:30:33 -!- lboard [n=lboard@122.165.28.253] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 04:33:14 semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 04:33:21 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 04:34:04 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:34:08 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #lisp 04:34:37 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:35:21 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Client Quit] 04:36:13 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:38:28 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:40:36 andyzweb [n=andyzweb@pool-72-87-127-176.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:46 -!- andyzweb [n=andyzweb@pool-72-87-127-176.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:42:51 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:04 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 04:49:30 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:06 dang this little program is really a nightmare 04:50:37 been at it for hours, and still having issues. directory/filename listing is a pain, heh. 04:51:56 minion: pcl 04:51:57 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:51:59 tdt, that book has a chapter on filesystem access. Also, there's the library someone pointed you to. 04:52:09 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:52:17 minion: cl-fad 04:52:19 cl-fad: CL-FAD is a portable pathname library based on code from Peter Seibel's book Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fad 04:52:24 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:52:52 -!- eflynn [n=evan@65-183-142-159-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:53:18 ayrnieu: The book is open to my left :) And, it's just coming down to my inexperience at lisp at the moment that's really a pain at the moment. 04:54:02 Came up with the brilliant idea of finding all the files in a directory, reading each one (one at a time), replacing any character that's outside a range of ascii, then writing back the file to disk 04:57:24 -!- guenther__ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:59:51 guenther__ [n=guenther@sahnehaschee.unix-ag.uni-kl.de] has joined #lisp 05:04:02 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:05:45 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 05:07:27 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 05:08:38 totzeit [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:36 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:27 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:17 Hello. I have a question about the C-c C-y command in SLIME. 05:23:39 ask it 05:24:13 I don't really understand what it's doing. I'm testing on a hello-world function with the point over hello-world in it's defun and it inserts (nil::hello-world) into the interactive buffer. 05:24:28 Shouldn't it insert (hello-world) instead? 05:25:58 you have an old slime, this bug was fixed a long ago 05:26:40 rats 05:27:07 have you ever had old slime? It's... not right. 05:27:07 no, slimes. 05:27:07 How do I get the version of slime? 05:27:54 slime-protocol-version variable 05:27:55 some cvs command can do it. 05:28:39 in the current slime, at least 05:29:53 Says 2008-2-23 05:29:58 nikki93 [n=nikki@89.211.122.152] has joined #lisp 05:30:19 Just tried lisp, and in 10 minutes I realised it's one of the most awesome things ever. 05:30:26 Oh...because I used the debian package. 05:30:51 nikki93: congratulations 05:31:03 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.4] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 05:31:45 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 05:32:36 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:33:04 Thank you. I'll try upgrading to see if there's a newer version. 05:33:20 use slime from cvs 05:34:03 Now don't kill me for this question: Is it reasonable to write 'big' programs in lisp? Or is it just an experimental language? 05:34:09 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:34:10 I'm mostly a C\C++ fellow. 05:34:26 very big 05:34:28 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-213.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:34:35 Thanks. 05:34:36 nikki93 - yes, it's very possible. 05:35:09 that is, if we are talking about Common Lisp 05:36:09 We are. 05:36:31 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:36:38 Is scheme very different from common lisp? 05:36:42 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 05:36:49 I was thinking of using Guile at some point. 05:37:01 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:11 It is. 05:48:52 How does one write a comment in lisp? 05:49:08 either prefix it with ; marks 05:49:11 nikki93: you usually start by reading a book. 05:49:16 or you can have nested comments with #| |# 05:49:20 minion: tell nikki93 about pcl 05:49:21 nikki93: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:49:23 I'm reading a book. But they haven't mentioned comments yet. 05:49:30 but you can learn that from a good lisp book like the one that minion mentioned 05:49:30 stassats: Reading that. I'm in the CD part. 05:49:46 hum, I thought I remembered it mentioning them 05:49:49 maybe just in passing 05:53:46 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 05:53:56 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:13 peddie [n=peddie@TEP-ONE-FIFTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 05:58:57 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0C7B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:00 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C7B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:02:01 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:02:02 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns 06:04:43 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 06:04:58 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:05:57 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-217.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:23 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:10:28 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:10:37 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 06:11:25 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:42 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:12 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 06:14:49 uffff 06:17:48 what do I need to do to have a utf-8 string read in with drakma to be printed as a string, instead of a vector? 06:19:28 (apropos "octets-to-string") 06:19:55 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:34 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:20:37 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 06:20:54 fusss: (apropos "octets-to-string") 06:21:15 H4ns: cheers mate! 06:21:21 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:31 so THAT is what flexi-streams is for, nice! 06:21:54 most implementations have some octets-to-string implementation themselves, as has babel. 06:23:00 i'm in foreign territory, lispworks, win32 06:23:14 i see. flexi-streams is good for you 06:24:12 et viola! \o/ 06:25:17 Guile is an embedded/extension language I know of, but it's based on scheme. Any alternatives you know of that's based on common lisp? 06:25:33 nikki93: ecl can easily be embedded 06:25:41 minion: tell nikki93 about ecl 06:25:42 nikki93: please see ecl: Embeddable Common Lisp, a member of the KCL Family, is a Common Lisp implementation initially developed by Giuseppe Attardi and currently maintained by Juan Jose Garcia-Ripoll. http://www.cliki.net/ecl 06:26:36 H4ns: Thanks! 06:27:09 I just discovered lisp, and I'm a hobbyist game programmer in C++. I'd love to use it as a scripting langauge. 06:29:33 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:34:09 good morning 06:34:48 l_a_m: Good morning! 06:41:34 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:42:42 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:43:40 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:44:36 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:48:41 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 06:49:08 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:50:19 Hello 06:52:06 nikki93: i played lispbuilder on win32 and linux and you can get both SDL and opengl in pure lisp :-) 06:54:15 fusss: Sure. But I already have a pretty big framework running on C++ and would like to stick with that for a while. ;-) 06:54:35 ecl then 06:54:55 fusss: k 06:55:15 Man, lisp is awesome! I'm loving the general structure. 06:57:34 Juan Jose Garcia-Rickroll? que? 06:58:23 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-58-39.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:43 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 07:02:52 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:04:46 dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:22 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:09:17 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:12:09 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:12:22 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:12:39 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:16 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:16:32 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:03 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:12 BrianRice-mb_ [n=briantri@c-67-161-89-244.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:12 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:21:41 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:21:49 -!- BrianRice-mb_ [n=briantri@c-67-161-89-244.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:04 djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:24:44 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:24:45 Good morning. 07:24:52 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:26:11 morning, tic 07:26:59 Gotta love linux for the ease of setting up programming environments. 07:27:23 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:15 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:31:35 dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:37 tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 07:32:48 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:33:04 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:46 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has joined #lisp 07:36:05 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 07:36:18 mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:21 Hah. (format t "~r" some-number) is awesome. 07:36:24 good morning 07:40:16 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:26 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-93-104-46-188.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 07:40:31 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:42:45 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:09 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:43:13 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 07:45:51 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has joined #lisp 07:45:52 -!- kg [n=imkin@little-black-box.vmware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:45:59 kg [n=imkin@little-black-box.vmware.com] has joined #lisp 07:46:17 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:47:58 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:55:59 Partyzant [n=Partyzan@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:08 -!- Partyzant [n=Partyzan@rps312.ovh.net] has left #lisp 07:59:54 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 08:01:18 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:03:52 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:26 -!- Grilinctus is now known as Aankhen`` 08:08:23 Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:09:23 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has quit [] 08:09:25 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 08:13:23 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-211.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 08:14:52 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:15:01 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 08:19:53 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:48 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 08:24:26 addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has joined #lisp 08:26:02 nikki93: If you speak english. 08:31:36 nikki93: The maintainer of ECL is very friendly and supportive, so don't hesitate to consult the mailing list when you so far trying to integrate ECL into your framework. 08:32:05 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:35:28 nikki93: And when you want to try out Slime (you must!), make sure you get it from CVS. 08:37:05 'good-morning 08:37:11 slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:47 *trebor_dki* looks at the results of his lisp-particle-simulation and is very very happy "praise SBCL" 08:39:08 *sykopomp* got sheeplette to pass all but 3 of the 120-something unit tests, tonight. 08:39:29 kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has joined #lisp 08:41:14 you wrote 120 unit tests? impressive! 08:41:41 fusss: I was just running it through the old unit tests I wrote for regular sheeple. It managed to pass almost all of them :) 08:41:43 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:41:56 but hey. It has a MOP now. 08:42:09 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:42:12 wow 08:42:57 I mean, it sort of has a MOP. All the pieces are in place and some chunks of the MOP are already there -- I still haven't written up the MOP stuff for buzzwords/messages and dispatching and stuff. The MOP stuff related to cloning is mostly there, though. 08:43:40 and I'm not sure I'm happy with my base-case solution for metaobjects. I'll scrutinize it viciously for now, but it seems to work. 08:44:05 i have an idea for BSD-licensed Sheeple application you will just love to start working on, but it has to be done by wednesday. wanna get started on it? ;-) 08:44:40 if you were serious, I'd tell you to wait a month or two, and code a joke app in it first :P 08:44:56 my non-serious answer, then, is "totally dewd" 08:45:17 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 08:45:19 and, I mean... it's MIT-licensed and it should be portable across a bunch of implementations, so go wild, man. 08:45:45 Good morning. 08:45:50 look into "business rules engines"; crap that is so mind numbingly boring, but still fairly hard 08:45:59 hey spiaggia 08:46:03 I don't think I can make the license any more relaxed because I took some chunks from SBCL :-\ 08:46:10 spiaggia: mornin! 08:47:25 gotta crash for now, nite all 08:47:27 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]"] 08:48:12 I should probably head to bed, too. I got out of my week-long unable-to-solve-problem funk and now I can't seem to stop hacking :-\ 08:53:08 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:20 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 08:58:45 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-47-51.51-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 09:01:13 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:01:40 mega1 [n=mega@3e44beb4.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:04:23 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:08:48 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:09:59 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 09:11:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:14:03 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:16:49 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 09:20:58 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 09:21:31 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:26:58 H4ns2 [n=Hans@p57BBA8E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:14 125 out of 125. I'm done here for the night. Woot. 09:27:46 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 09:28:50 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:32:21 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-092-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:51 Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:36:43 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 09:43:52 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 09:45:15 -!- H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA9E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:45:28 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:49:14 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:51:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 09:56:33 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 09:57:37 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 09:57:56 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 10:01:58 delYsid [n=user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:02:24 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:02:48 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:05:05 toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:36 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:21 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:10:55 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 10:18:12 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-47-51.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 10:21:20 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:22:42 -!- Fufie1 [n=Frog@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:25:58 jacobian [n=jacobian@87.192.57.40] has joined #lisp 10:26:05 Anyone here use ACL2? 10:31:57 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:32:11 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:32:22 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 10:33:26 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 10:33:43 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 10:34:01 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:35:52 ntoll [n=ntoll@host86-128-200-117.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:41 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:38:03 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 10:38:06 -!- semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:38:33 mhstif [n=mhstif02@202.70.61.7] has joined #lisp 10:40:26 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:42:02 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 10:48:25 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C7B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:48:30 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns 10:48:56 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C7B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:31 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:56:29 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-092-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:57:23 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:59:22 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 11:00:45 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:00:50 hello 11:05:08 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 11:05:55 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:08:38 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-65-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:09:46 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-93-104-46-188.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:10:01 schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:11:02 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:14:02 dabd [n=dabd@mouse.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 11:14:09 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-65-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:14:41 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:44 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:22:17 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 11:23:31 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:23:49 Why does one use the form 'name-supplied-p' for a boolean value holding whether a parameter was supplied? What does 'p' stand for? 11:24:09 "boolean" 11:24:41 :) 11:25:11 'p' stands for 'boolean'? But 'boolean' starts with a 'b'! :o 11:25:30 not when you have a lisp 11:25:37 :| 11:25:59 not when you look at it in a horizontal mirror 11:26:40 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 11:31:04 predicate .. 11:39:14 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.137.172] has joined #lisp 11:40:35 /msg lojbog g job 11:40:42 sorry, typo 11:42:56 What's the difference between 'when' and 'if'? 11:43:29 "if" can have an alternative as well as a consequent form 11:43:38 "when" only has consequents, with an implicit progn 11:45:01 Xof: Well, I didn't understand anything you said, but I take there's a difference. I'll probably get it later. :) 11:45:31 Xof: Oh you mean if has an 'else' part but when doesn't! :) 11:45:41 that'll do for starters 11:45:45 Thanks. 11:46:15 chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-195-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:23 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 11:46:29 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-134-91.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:46:33 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087D9F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:33 nikki93, "p" stands for "predicate" 11:48:12 some prefer the schemish question-mark convention, traditionalists consider it heresy 11:49:06 -!- mhstif [n=mhstif02@202.70.61.7] has left #lisp 11:52:18 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:49 weirdo: some just consider mixing styles to be bad, without any "religious" affection. 11:55:30 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-58-39.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:20 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-134-91.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:58:42 tiesje` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 12:02:27 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:04:34 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-134-79.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:04:56 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:05:02 plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:05:05 g'day 12:05:38 hi 12:05:44 -!- saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-61-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 12:06:03 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 12:06:09 mega1: thank you for investigating the location of sigcontext on sparc 12:06:14 I have a colleague who is trying to port SBCL to netBSD and he is having problems debugging low-level code. Any hints? 12:06:45 hm, don't we already run on NetBSD? (Is this not the same colleague who has already done a port?) 12:06:54 in any case, the usual answer is gdb 12:06:57 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:15 OK. I think you might be right, that he already did some work in that domain. 12:07:17 http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/gdb 12:07:25 thanks! 12:09:40 of course, as of this morning there is a whole different amount of low-level code 12:09:58 more or less? 12:10:53 I don't actually know. Definitely different code, anyway 12:11:08 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:11:33 I gave Don Byrd a copy of our gsharp paper a couple of weeks ago; he has just sent me an e-mail to say that he really likes it 12:11:37 he's going to send me some notes 12:11:53 Great! 12:12:53 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 12:13:56 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:16:01 I am still a bit confused wrt how much the referees liked it as well. I don't consider it one of my best papers. 12:21:38 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:16 -!- tiesje` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:30:04 chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-195-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:26 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:59 hello plage 12:34:27 Hi mvilleneuve. How are things? 12:34:50 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-195-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:34:53 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-195-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:36:05 splittist [n=splittis@106-119.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:36:08 morning 12:36:13 hello splittist 12:38:52 plage: pretty good thanks, how are yours? 12:39:30 plage: have you heard from Tim lately? I've sent him a message but he hasn't replied yet. 12:40:58 danlei [n=user@pD954F6F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:08 This seem to finally calm down a bit here. Tim sometimes don't answer very quickly and needs to be reminded. 12:41:41 s/This/Things/ 12:41:54 ok 12:42:08 chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-195-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:17 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 12:47:01 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 12:48:21 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:46 Xof: I updated the internals wiki page as well. 12:50:41 -!- chris2_ is now known as chris2 12:51:16 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:52:21 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 12:53:15 all in all, it's 638 more lines in the runtime. Some for new features, some comments, some for actively checking invariants. 12:53:50 I think complexity decreased if anything. 12:54:48 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:56:37 robyonrails [n=roby@host136-154-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:59:10 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-118-8.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:00:28 manuel_ [n=manuel@hygiene.bl0rg.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:29 hi 13:00:34 manuel_: hi! 13:00:51 how's it going? 13:01:27 manuel_: having fun writing a flash driver that does wear distribution in forth. 8) 13:01:39 wear distribution? 13:01:47 which book would you recommend on forth? i need something hands on 13:01:54 and i think it's the way to go now as well 13:02:12 manuel_: yes, the number of erase/write cycles is limited, so one wants to distribute them over the device 13:02:15 Starting Forth is OK and free 13:02:31 oh, right, i wrote something like that back when i worked in geneva :) 13:02:40 don't think i still have it though 13:02:42 +1 on "starting forth" 13:02:47 good, thx :) 13:02:58 i'll look a bit further into the ccl hunchentoot issues i had today 13:02:58 manuel_: i'm doing it in forth, it's fun and i need to practice. 13:03:19 (I did get bored half the way through, but probably because I didn't have any actual forth project to play with) 13:04:00 manuel_: it could well be a x86/32 problem, remember to update from svn first 13:04:06 yep 13:04:12 was a fresh checkout 13:05:20 h4ns, are you in #forth as well? 13:05:34 yep. switching offtopic discussion :) 13:06:38 i got my opengenera alpha back yesterday 13:06:46 had to bootstrap the harddrives with a quick flick of the wrist :) 13:06:50 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-3-181.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:13:46 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has joined #lisp 13:16:15 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-26-107.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:39 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:55 chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-094-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:21 -!- Chronona1t is now known as Chrononaut 13:20:58 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 13:21:40 trebor_dki pasted "simple clos-method-selection confusion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75643 13:22:15 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:22:32 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 13:23:05 could someone give me a little hint, what i am obviously overlooking here? i thought (t-meth1 obj1) should call t-meth1 of t-base-0? 13:23:29 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:23:40 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 13:24:10 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-118-8.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:24:35 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:38 -!- dabd [n=dabd@mouse.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:24:43 G'morning all. 13:25:28 good morning nyef ;) 13:26:12 <_death> "Some people write Scheme interpreters when learning new languages, I write swank backends." 13:26:27 beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-93-144.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:26:31 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:26:47 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 13:27:11 trebor: Which implementation is this? 13:27:20 sbcl 13:27:45 i thought (t-meth1 obj1) as well as (t-meth1 obj2) would call (defmethod t-meth1 ((obj t-base-0))) 13:27:49 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:13 sbcl produces " t-meth1 of t-base-0" for obj1 for me. 13:28:27 Perhaps your diagnosis is wrong. 13:28:42 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087D9F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:28:58 Zhivago: oh. ok, i recompile then, thanks. 13:29:01 beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-76-82.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:30:26 as i see, now it does as expected. thanks Zhivago. 13:30:40 Welcome. 13:35:03 mije [n=user@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:26 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:40:57 Any acl2 users here? 13:42:01 -!- beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-3-181.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:04 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:29 -!- chris2 [n=chris@dslb-094-216-195-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:43:28 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 13:44:35 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:44:49 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:45:48 -!- beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-93-144.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:08 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:48:10 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 13:48:40 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:54 acl2's kind of limited 13:49:00 it can't even prove the mc91 function 13:49:28 not to mention the lack of function-firstclassedness 13:50:02 weirdo: so, you say, jacobian should stop looking for other users and instead use another theorem prover, right? 13:50:07 -!- splittist [n=splittis@106-119.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:50:32 no, i'm just rambling 13:50:38 there aren't any better provers to begin with 13:51:17 acl2 has a lot of advantages over other provers 13:51:39 I'm just having one of those problems that will take me a long time and could probably be solved instantly by someone with experience. 13:52:04 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@c-76-17-41-185.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:52:05 I'm a big Coq fan, but now I need a proof where the proof term is too big to fit into memory. 13:53:13 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:53:50 -!- beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-76-82.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:53:57 Would brute force work? i.e. more memory 13:53:58 beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-109-8.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:54:31 maybe, but I also expect not having to build the term and type check it will be a lot faster. 13:55:06 also, I don't need higher-order features, just first order. 13:55:45 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1F553.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:02 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E4B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:38 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has left #lisp 13:59:14 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:15 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.207.187] has joined #lisp 14:01:53 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 14:03:11 FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 14:05:36 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:06:04 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:07:06 -!- Thumper_ [n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper] has left #lisp 14:09:01 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:11:35 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:11:56 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it."] 14:17:15 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:32 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:23:57 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:25:53 ``Erik_ [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has joined #lisp 14:25:57 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 14:29:42 I would like to improve the speed of my sbcl package, where can I learn more about declaring types and other techniques to allow the compiler do to a better job 14:30:07 of my package, under sbcl 14:30:51 by setting higher speed declarations and reading sbcl's notes 14:34:18 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:19 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:40:34 evan_ [n=evan@65-183-142-159-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:36 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 14:40:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:41:17 auclairb, see DECLARE and DECLAIM in clhs 14:42:04 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [] 14:42:31 sbcl's manual contains some notes on how SPEED/SAFETY/DEBUG and friends influence particular optimization techniques 14:42:37 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-146-17.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:44:38 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 14:45:57 Ogedei [n=user@e178230046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:46:20 -!- evan_ [n=evan@65-183-142-159-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:46:32 -!- toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:48:55 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:50:57 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2E023.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:37 auclairb: If your project is numerics-heavy, explicit boxing of values might help. DISASSEMBLE can be your friend when looking at the effects of various optimization controls, etc. 14:53:10 nyef: what do you mean by explicit boxing ? 14:53:35 nyef: putting evertyhing in struct that hold 1 element ? 14:53:56 Arrays, not structs, typically, but that sort of thing. 14:54:11 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [] 14:54:30 I have one project that was doing a lot of passing unsigned-byte 32 values around. 14:55:05 Was spending time and memory boxing and unboxing them needlessly. 14:55:51 So, a lot of inlining and some explicit boxing later, and I got the runtime down from eight hours for a failed run to a few seconds for the same run. 14:56:37 This is one data point, and it is almost certainly more dramatic than could be expected for most projects. 14:57:55 nyef: I must be in a very similar situation, lots of unsigned ints, I code similar implementations in c and lisp (although not identical) the c one is 3 seconds and the lisp is around 6 minutes 14:58:30 considering the lisp one is a little more complex i would expect maybe 30 seconds but never 6 mintues 14:59:55 unsigned ints? why not just fixnums? 15:00:10 do you need the sign bit and 3 tag bits so badly? 15:00:34 For an example, compare nevermore-9e0304 with nevermore-9e0311. http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/nevermore/ 15:01:05 weirdo: unsigned ints in c, i dont know what type they are in lisp, yet 15:01:25 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 15:03:17 auclairb, start with profiling it :) 15:03:26 M-x slime-profile- 15:03:36 and then M-x slime-unprofile-all 15:04:08 so that you'll know what to optimize 15:04:34 that's the statistical profiler, might be inaccurate, check out also SB-SPROF 15:05:21 fwiw, there's also a coverage testing package 15:05:27 oh ya, about profiling, I see there's stuff about consed, what is that about ? 15:06:01 -!- danlei [n=user@pD954F6F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:06:02 consed === allocated memory 15:06:02 cons, v.: To allocate memory. 15:07:53 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-134-79.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:08:16 ... Ugh. This gets praise for how beautiful and understandable it is? The NuPI code alone is... Ugh. 15:08:50 what's nupi? 15:09:13 -!- plage [n=user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:10:08 NuBUS Peripheral Interface. The disk controller in the Exploreres. 15:10:14 Err... Explorers. 15:10:30 jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 15:11:11 -!- knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has left #lisp 15:14:35 -!- antoinevg [n=antoine@alonzo.artifactual.org.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:16:45 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 15:16:56 tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has joined #lisp 15:17:08 totzeit1 [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:58 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.207.187] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:18:23 deafmacro [n=user@59.96.64.148] has joined #lisp 15:23:20 -!- FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:24:16 Ok most of the time is spent in two functions that should be simple yet are consing like crazy 15:24:39 I paste the one that takes most time and that conses ~17 for every run 15:24:51 Just so I get an example of what I need to do 15:24:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:25:02 auclairb pasted "Optimizing" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75646 15:25:10 Note that if you're not using the statistical profiler, the profiling wrappers cons a bit. 15:25:35 im using the statistical i think (slime-profile-package) 15:25:49 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has quit [] 15:25:58 -!- totzeit [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:26:26 Hrm. Is there an easy way to get the disassembly of that method? 15:27:20 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:32 Also, what is the type of a b-array? 15:27:56 (Hunh. Has to be discriminable, that limits the possibilities a bit...) 15:28:25 b-array is a struct containing an array and a blockscheme 15:28:35 Ah, I see. 15:29:55 (disassemble (sb-pcl::safe-method-fast-function )) 15:30:29 array-dimensions will cons, won't it? 15:30:42 Depends on if it's inlined or not. 15:30:59 how? 15:31:00 That's a good call, though. 15:31:11 I'm not sure what i should replace method with 15:31:15 (find-method #'baref nil (list (find-class 'b-array) (find-class 'regular-coordinates))) 15:33:15 I guess array-dimensions has to cons. I presume that array-dimension can at least avoid doing so? 15:33:31 I would expect so, yes 15:33:36 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:34:05 There is no applicable method for find-method when called with argument closure... 15:34:34 And I see repeated calls to RC-X and RC-Y, does the compiler do anything smart with them, or would caching a local copy in the let* help a bit? 15:34:37 how much time spent in gc? 15:35:13 you would appear to have encapsulated #'baref, probably by using the encapsulating profiler 15:35:15 unprofile it first 15:35:19 BrianBek [n=BrianBek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:35:57 Xof: spot on 15:35:58 -!- BrianBek [n=BrianBek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:08 I'll paste disassembly 15:37:12 I'm not sure that you need to bother 15:37:17 auclairb annotated #75646 "Disassembly of baref" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75646#1 15:37:18 array-dimensions conses 15:38:27 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["sleep time"] 15:38:56 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.96.64.148] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:39:03 uh how about speed 3, safety 0, debug 0 and all numeric types declared fixnum/float appropriately? 15:39:21 deafmacro [n=user@59.96.40.73] has joined #lisp 15:39:23 it looks like generic arithmetic consumes much of the dump 15:39:24 So should I store array dimensions in b-array ? 15:39:31 -!- the-ruediger is now known as ruediger 15:40:09 auclairb, how often do you call that function? 15:40:26 if you call it repeatedly with the same argument perhaps, pass dimensions as an argument 15:41:01 weirdo: Its the function I call most often 15:41:07 auclairb: try using array-dimension instead of array-dimensionS first 15:41:08 -!- schoppenhauer [n=mdd63bi@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:41:28 H4ns: simple enough let me try that right now 15:41:34 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-65-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:42:11 nyef annotated #75646 "Maybe this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75646#2 15:42:49 nyef: yeah, and then lose the NOT and swap the then and else case case 15:42:54 Oh, wow. Lots of generic math... 15:43:03 H4ns: I considered it. 15:43:44 I think the indices on the array dimension calls might be backwards. 15:43:59 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has quit [] 15:44:43 nyef: heh ya just saw that my checks were backwards 15:45:36 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087D9F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:55 So, declaring types for the various values flying around should do some good, at least. 15:46:37 Im currently profiling with the switch from array-dimensions to 2 x array-dimension 15:47:46 The types of rc-* are declared as integers, in the struct, would something else be a better choice ? 15:48:12 Is there a range within which they are constrained to be? 15:48:40 nyef: yes 15:48:56 Ok 95% of the consing in gone with H4ns change 15:49:13 Reduction of 20% in execution time 15:49:42 i blame xof 15:50:20 If the range is small enough (and small enough depends on the target architecture), the compiler may be able to generate tighter code if the types are declared better. 15:50:30 But only if it's a struct and not a class. 15:51:04 Oh! And knowing the type of blocksize should help as well. 15:51:16 nyef: something like (integer 16) ? 15:51:17 auclairb, then optimize for speed, nay debug nor safety, declare fixnum types for everything 15:51:33 weirdo: is fixnum better than integer ? 15:51:37 yes 15:51:54 Fixnum is more constrained than integer, but it's close to useless as a portable type specification. 15:51:58 (safety 0) brings the highest benefit 15:52:07 "(integer 16)" means "any integer greater than 16" 15:52:20 greater-than-or-equal-to 15:52:28 whichever of those it is, it's unlikely to be what you meant 15:52:44 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 15:53:01 unsigned-byte types are good, and there's that mod type specifier... 15:53:04 oh, and look at compiler notes when you add an optimize declaration 15:53:12 they'll tell you what could help sbcl optimize 15:53:23 Xof: hehe yes, ok thanks for the help everyone, I'll go learn about declaring for speed and declare types and come back with the results 15:53:38 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0D72B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:45 heh, not much to learn 15:54:03 And don't forget to declare your array type, that can speed up array-dimensions and aref, plus can possibly elide some type-checking code in places. 15:54:07 just put (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0) (debug 0))) after the arglist 15:55:35 weirdo: I have to put that in every function/method ? 15:57:33 Nah, stick it in a proclaim at the top of the file, or arrange for it to be established around the file, or use a locally, or... 15:58:10 you really don't have to optimize everything 15:58:31 That's true as well. 15:59:02 optimize only functions that are known to cause no type errors and do proper bound-checking 15:59:39 sbcl catches sig11's, but sometimes it silently corrupts memory until the image dies... the horror, the horror 15:59:58 Alternately, make sure the optimized version still causes the type errors... 16:00:34 Heh. And some people still want a single-address-space LispOS. 16:01:08 One of those seductive ideas, like transparent persistence. 16:01:14 better than c with its safety being jammed shut on "off" :) 16:01:33 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 16:01:44 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:01:58 CL has plenty of undefined behaviour of its own :) 16:02:55 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-141-65-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:03:54 lboard [n=lboard@117.193.203.101] has joined #lisp 16:04:20 typically, how does load differentiate between a C .so and a C++ .so? 16:04:38 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.94] has joined #lisp 16:04:45 "load"? 16:04:54 wierd yes, the "load" function. 16:05:13 the CL LOAD function? 16:05:19 what's that, ECL? 16:05:56 weirdo: i'm using ACL. i'm very new to lisp and I'm just trying to install a program. 16:06:01 A .so is a .so is a .so. There's no real point in differentiating between the implementation languages unless you're a debugger. 16:06:02 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:02 the problem is that it's having problem loading a C++ .so 16:06:04 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:06:06 In ECL it would typically differentiate by failing on a C++ .so due to name manglery. 16:06:42 mun: You might want to read about "how to link C++ with C". 16:07:17 the short answer being "don't use C++ if you can help it" :) 16:07:33 hmm 16:07:51 Or compile your C++ entry points extern "C". 16:08:07 or make tiny wrappers for everything 16:08:26 unless they are "overloaded", in which case extern "C" won't help you 16:08:27 I added the type of a member of a class as :type fixnum and when doing (let ((a (member class))) it seems like it cannot figure that a is a fixnum, is this normal ? 16:08:39 oh i think i know what the problem is... spent 5hrs on it, and all of a sudden 16:08:45 but better yet, rewrite all the C and C++ software you use in lisp. long live nih-value! 16:08:46 it seems that libstdc++.so isn't loaded 16:08:51 auclairb: We did mention that declaring slot types only really helps on structs, not classes, right? 16:08:54 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:57 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:09:10 auclairb: slot type declarations in CLOS are not really useful for anything, certainly not for speed 16:10:01 a-ha, no one mentioned switching the often-called method to a function 16:10:04 nyef, cmm: Oh ok, will it help if I declare it in the scope of the let ? 16:10:12 auclairb: Should do, yes. 16:10:33 should the c++ .so have a dynamic dependence to libstdc++.so or should it be statically linked? 16:10:44 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C7B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:11:25 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 16:11:55 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 16:12:03 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:13:57 milanj [n=milan@91.148.92.61] has joined #lisp 16:14:59 mun: either should work, I guess 16:15:21 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:32 -!- peddie [n=peddie@TEP-ONE-FIFTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15:43 I ahve a compiler note that says Cannot optimize #'* because the result is not a... How can I declare the type of the result of an operation? 16:16:27 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:16:32 (the fixnum (* 2 4)) 16:16:44 demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig112.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:45 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:17:19 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:19 or (declare (ftype (function (fixnum fixnum) fixnum) your-function)) 16:17:47 stassats: thanks 16:17:53 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:18:00 or make sure that the numbers you're multiplying are declared to be smaller in absolute value than (sqrt most-positive-fixnum) 16:18:49 fixnum fixnum fixnum 16:20:58 Alright, the only notes left are the ones i cannot remove, I'll try another test run see how it goes 16:22:14 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@dslb-094-216-094-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:23:34 dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:41 -!- dcrawford_ is now known as dcrawford 16:26:34 I wonder if muffling the notes could make your program perceivably faster :) 16:26:53 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:27:06 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@host86-128-200-117.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 16:27:13 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 16:27:16 antoni [n=antoni@138.100.145.248] has joined #lisp 16:29:02 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:32:38 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 16:33:24 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:46 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:47 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:36:55 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-24-16-45-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:59 The typing further cut the running time by 40% and eliminated consing completely 16:37:45 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-157-216.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:37:55 josemanuel [n=josemanu@37.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:38:43 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-146-17.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:38:47 -!- the-ruediger is now known as ruediger 16:42:29 better check that you're still getting the right answers 16:44:42 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:35 Has anyone heard any more about Gary's planned move of the ASDF repo? I just encountered another gotcha about which I'd like to propose a patch, but feel stymied. 16:46:37 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:47:01 Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has joined #lisp 16:48:46 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:49:56 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-106-180.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 16:50:42 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:50:52 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:51:10 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:51:15 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:53:58 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:49 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:55 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:55:16 BrianBek [n=BrianBek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:56:32 -!- totzeit1 [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has left #lisp 16:57:35 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 16:58:12 dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:58 totzeit [n=user@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:14 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:59:38 -!- totzeit [n=user@dsl102.zipcon.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 16:59:57 rurban [n=chatzill@93-82-85-183.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:02:00 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 17:03:50 -!- dat [n=dthomp@c-76-115-154-193.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:39 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@93-82-85-183.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 17:05:22 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:08:29 totzeit [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:52 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 17:11:55 -!- erk [n=MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit ["leaving"] 17:14:26 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D72B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:32 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA8E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:14:35 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 17:15:01 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 17:15:03 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA8E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:51 -!- dialtone_ [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:17:18 archangelpetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:53 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:22:38 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 17:24:53 -!- H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0D72B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:24:55 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-46-146.sqpk.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:55 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:14 -!- slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:31:20 -!- totzeit [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:31:39 -!- BrianRice-mb is now known as BrianRice 17:33:17 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:33:27 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.96.40.73] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:48 totzeit [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:17 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:39:02 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:39:39 hi 17:39:42 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 17:40:06 if the debugging message says "invalid unmatched right parenthesis read. [file position = 5518] is it the 5518th char? 17:41:38 mun: yes 17:42:00 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 17:42:32 mun: are you using a paren-matching text editor?.... 17:42:36 mun: M-x goto-char 17:42:51 sykopomp: yes i am 17:43:04 oh. That's an emacs/slime error then? 17:43:06 kk 17:43:20 c 17:43:42 sykopomp: i'm just trying to install something, but somehow the installer had bugs like that 17:43:43 very strange 17:43:45 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:54 that sounds annoying 17:44:02 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:45:24 thanks h4ns 17:47:53 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:52:02 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:11 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c133-93.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:43 Wow! This works: (eval (reverse '("Hello world!" t format))) 17:57:47 clhs #r 17:57:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhj.htm 17:58:21 -!- totzeit [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has left #lisp 17:58:59 peddie [n=peddie@PIERCE-FIFTY.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:02:46 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:03:24 nikki93: why wouldn't it work? 18:08:31 Fade: Not that it wouldn't, but I just thought of it, and it's pretty cool. (new to lisp) 18:10:01 it's always cheery to see someone in the honeymoon phase 18:11:41 iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:11 Wikipedia calls CL a Lisp 2 because it has 2 namespaces: variables and functions. PCL says classes are in yet another namespace, so it actually has 3 namespaces. Why say it has 2 namespaces then? 18:13:16 asdf:load-op hangs in ccl windows 18:13:52 iaindalton: The only namespaces which "count" are the variable and function namespaces. 18:14:14 iaindalton: I think CL actually has eight namespaces, but for the purposes of normal function application only two matter 18:14:19 iain - the contrast is between Lisp-2 and Lisp-1; it isn't a matter of counting all the namespaces. 18:14:22 iaindalton: There are also catch-tag names, block names, go tag names, etc. 18:14:43 dlowe: I thought it was twelve namespaces? 18:14:49 So what's the significance of vars and functions being is separate vs common namespaces? 18:14:58 odin__ [n=mark@nom27400d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:14:59 Not that it's hard to add another namespace -- just make a hash-table. 18:15:27 iaindalton - the significant is that CL uses FUNCALL and that Scheme et al can't have sensible parameter names. 18:15:59 There's also baker's paper, isn't there? 18:16:07 iaindalton: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lisp-1+lisp-2 18:16:28 and even with its 8 or 12 namespaces, CL still can't have sensible global variable names! Should've added a 13th! 18:16:29 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 18:17:21 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:10 Hrm. "CALL NIL PTR [EAX+5]". I think I broke something. 18:18:31 -!- peddie [n=peddie@PIERCE-FIFTY.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:21 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:29:35 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:29:54 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 18:30:15 -!- plutonas [n=plutonas@kr-lun-13-152-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:34:37 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:01 auclairb pasted "What conses in there? ash ?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75653 18:36:25 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:02 I got a very small function that calls /=, ash and a method of my own that doesnt cons 18:37:11 -!- milanj [n=milan@91.148.92.61] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:37:16 Somehow those 3 calls cons 18:37:23 I'm puzzled 18:37:44 The -. 18:37:55 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf204.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:18 milanj [n=milan@91.148.92.61] has joined #lisp 18:38:44 nyef: huh, how could i fix it ? (* -1 ..)? 18:39:18 If (- ...) conses i guess the (* -1 ...) would cons too 18:40:40 Can I stop mapcar list when lambda function returns t ? 18:40:45 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 18:40:54 auclairb: have you tried (let ((neg-z-coord (- (rc-z coordinates)))) (declare (dynamic-extant neg-z-coord)) ... )? 18:41:32 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:41:33 dlowe: no, i'll try it right now, never heard of dynamic-extant 18:42:42 er, dynamic-extent 18:42:53 clhs dynamic-extent 18:42:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_dynami.htm 18:43:44 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 18:43:48 -!- milanj [n=milan@91.148.92.61] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:44:20 mrSpec: you can return-from block outside of mapcar 18:44:20 can any-one help me with hunchentoot 18:44:40 (hunchentoot:start-server) 18:45:34 Actually, it might not be the -, but that's the first obvious thing. 18:45:40 so I should put mapcar inside (block ) ? 18:45:41 though, not a good idea, it won't accumulate 18:45:44 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:34 Spec pasted "divided" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75654 18:47:38 The thing about negating a fixnum like that is that the range of a fixnum is... asymmetric around zero? Something like that. (- most-negative-fixnum) tends to be (1+ most-positive-fixnum), which leads to (- ) not necessarily being a fixnum. 18:47:58 this is my code, I'd like to check if number is divided by any number on the list 18:48:15 clhs notany 18:48:21 so when first give me t I can return with true.. 18:48:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 18:48:31 clhs nth-value 18:48:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_nth_va.htm 18:49:20 Or, actually... 18:49:21 clhs mod 18:49:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_mod.htm 18:49:22 ; clhs rem, zerop 18:49:32 hehe 18:49:38 thanks 18:49:47 I'll rewrite it 18:50:40 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:51:20 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:51:28 and you don't need if there 18:52:06 guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:15 i know that = return bool 18:52:32 I thought there should be something else in place of t and nil 18:53:03 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-127-222.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:03 i'd actually write with loop instead of notany: (loop for i in list never (zerop (rem i num))) 18:53:24 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-10b1537f06723c88] has joined #lisp 18:53:58 hmm which solution is better ? 18:54:38 can any-one help me with hunchentoot 18:54:47 ask a question, lboard. 18:55:21 s/never/thereis/ 18:55:25 i started the server, but, not able to view not able to view anything in localhost 18:55:27 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 18:55:32 browser 18:55:39 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:55:39 s/notany/some/ 18:56:44 lboard: If ccl isn't working right (you say it hangs on asdf:load-op), would you mind creating a ticket with some more information at http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ ? (Unfortunately, you have to register, or else spammers would kill us.) 18:57:18 sorry, i solved that problem, 18:57:20 lboard: on which port have you started it? 18:57:37 8080 18:57:58 eh have to go, thanks for help stassats check later. 18:58:09 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[away] 18:58:10 how can i debug this 18:59:07 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:29 dlowe,nyef: With the dynamic extent declaration it still conses but its speed is drastically increased 18:59:33 check with netstat, does it listen 18:59:35 -!- odin__ [n=mark@nom27400d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [] 18:59:39 lboard: does netstat -an show anything listening on port 8080? 18:59:56 auclairb: that's something, I guess :) 19:00:24 auclairb: have you tried profiling all the functions involved? 19:00:42 auclairb: Something else you might try is, if the function is in a file, using (compile-file ... :trace-file t) and looking at the trace file to see what the compiler is emitting. 19:00:53 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:01:06 dlowe: profiling #'- #'ash and #'/= ? 19:01:24 -!- schmx is now known as schme 19:01:53 dlowe: Each of the functions involved are either straight-up slot accessors or known to the compiler. 19:02:43 netstat displays a long list 19:03:14 there are four lines with 0:0:0:0:8080 LISTENING 19:03:22 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:03:24 i gave netstat -a 19:03:53 nyef: baref? 19:04:09 dlowe: Or that, which we looked at earlier. 19:05:05 dlowe: ya baref is profiled and does not cons 19:05:47 milanj [n=milan@212.69.1.76] has joined #lisp 19:07:24 rme: is it ok that netstat show 0:0:0:0:8080 19:07:54 perhaps I shouldn't care that it conses now that its much faster than it used to 19:09:04 what units is the consed column, bytes? 19:10:24 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 19:10:26 lboard: Yes. I guess the next thing I'd try is to say "telnet 127.0.0.1 8080" and see if it connects. If it does, type "GET / HTTP/1.0" and hit return twice and you should get a response if the http server is working. 19:11:30 ah, the profiling doesnt repro 19:11:39 its back to slow mode somehow 19:11:40 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-133.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:11:47 i'll try it a third time 19:12:35 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:13:23 hi 19:13:49 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 19:13:56 i'm trying to run make to compile a program. the last few lines gave http://pastebin.com/m1d3ab4e1 did it successfully compile? 19:14:36 I just wrote a little ECL interpretter, using the ECL library, in C++: http://codepad.org/UtikSKzJ 19:14:54 I'd like to know how I could make C++ functions etc. from my program available in ECL. 19:16:18 All I see in the ECL manual is ways to import C libraries. 19:17:43 -!- xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:17:48 xristos [n=x@dns.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 19:17:48 Alright I'm profiling - to see if it's the culprit 19:18:20 nikki93: So... follow the usual rules for importing a C++ library into a C program, and work from there? 19:19:24 rme: TELNET connects, but as soon as i hit a char, it disconnects 19:19:30 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:44 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:56 lboard: Could you be losing due to telnet option negotiation? 19:20:16 nyef: It's not about the library. I'd like to use functions defined in my C++ program (which calls 'cl_eval' etc.) in ECL code. 19:20:52 nikki93: It's about interoperation between C++ and a system that assumes C semantics and naming rules. 19:21:05 And god help you if you need to do stack unwinding. 19:22:07 i will check 19:22:08 lboard: you mentioned windows earlier. I don't know a lot about windows, but if you're on windows, could the windows firewall be getting in the way? 19:22:42 nikki93, try looking through the ecl list: http://search.gmane.org/?query=C%2B%2B&author=&group=gmane.lisp.ecl.general 19:23:12 -!- nikki93 [n=nikki@89.211.122.152] has quit ["leaving"] 19:23:36 rme: i disabled the firewall 19:23:58 i dont have any antivirus too 19:25:18 does hunchentoot write any log, 19:25:24 how to check it 19:25:34 lboard: check the documentation first. 19:25:57 spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:20 Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:26:45 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:28 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:31:14 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:32:50 rme: no use 19:33:07 rme: any other clues 19:33:13 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:34:11 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:01 What's the best method to append an element to a list destructively? 19:38:03 lboard: are you using the release version of hunchentoot or the development thing? 19:38:13 sepisultrum: the best way is not to do it. 19:38:44 prxq [n=mommer@Xb833.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:51 Hi 19:38:58 H4ns: huh? Use arrays instead? 19:39:01 sepisultrum: if you insist, you can (setf (cdr (last list))) 19:39:32 sepisultrum: maybe arrays, maybe hash tables, whatever. appending to a list is expensive and often confusing when you pass that list around. 19:39:33 H4ns: ahh, ok, so you mean create a new list 19:39:38 H4ns: i got it from a blog http://avodonosov.blogspot.com/2008/12/hunchentoot-on-ecl.html 19:40:03 sepisultrum: right. still, appending requires to first find the end of the list. 19:41:05 amusing way to add to a sorted list: (setf list (sort (cons elem list) #'<)) 19:41:10 H4ns: hunchentoot:server-address is nil will it affect? 19:41:12 lboard: that blog post talks about ecl, not ccl, are you aware of that? 19:41:31 H4ns: I don't use that a lot, so performance is not an issue 19:41:48 sepisultrum: then just create a new list using append 19:41:57 H4ns: Ok, thanks 19:44:47 H4ns: now i replaced with Edi's site, but the result is same 19:45:48 lboard: we're about to release a new version, but i can't promise that it works much better. i have not tried on windows yet, but i propably will in a few days. if you want to give it a shot, svn co svn://bknr.net/svn/ediware 19:46:10 lboard: you need to use the dependencies from that checkout, not the previous releases, as they are not compatible. 19:46:24 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 19:47:42 sepisultrum, note that prepending a new element to a list is very quick, but changes the identity of the list. 19:48:24 sepisultrum, (cons new list) yields you a new one. 19:48:31 Is there a way to tell sp-profile:report not to print functions that were not called ? 19:49:05 H4ns: thanks 19:49:21 auclairb: why would it have profiling data about things it didn't profile? 19:49:37 lboard: in fact, i'd be interested in knowing whether it works. 19:50:06 alec: i tell it to profile the whole package and a lot of functions arent called 19:50:22 sepisultrum, if you don't care about the order of elements, or if your list buildup is separate from list use and you can nreverse it between those -- that's the best way to go. 19:50:40 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 19:51:07 alec: i find it faster than toggling profiling on the 25 functions i want to 19:51:36 deepfire: I don't append elements a lot, most of the time I dolist over it, which is efficient 19:51:55 H4ns: actually what i was trying to do was, (multi-threading, slime, emacs, ccl) for windows in a box based on lispbox of peter seibel, everything went fine, at the end ... 19:52:00 auclairb, any reason you cannot use the statistical profiler instead? 19:52:35 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-78-34-201-145.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:00 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-177-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:32 Any clx experts in here? I'd like to use color images in with clx. Will I have to load the image manually? 19:53:46 deepfire: nah i just found this one first, am i better off with the other one ? 19:54:06 auclairb, sb-sprof is much easier to use. 19:54:36 auclairb, http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Statistical-Profiler.html#Statistical-Profiler 19:55:23 sepisultrum, are you sure you need to use CLX instead of, for example, lispbuilder-sdl? 19:56:33 deepfire: well I'm writing a mode-line for stumpwm and would like to keep the dependencies as low as possible 19:56:54 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 deepfire: so I understood it correctly that I'll have to implement the image reading myself 19:57:11 fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:10 deepfire: thank you 19:58:18 tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 19:58:20 sepisultrum, there must be libraries doing image format decoding you there, cl-jpeg, salza-png etc. 19:58:33 s/you/out/ 19:59:30 sepisultrum, generally you'd want to use cliki or similar hub sites to find those 19:59:55 deepfire: hmh, I'll look if I find something. Strange though that clx does not support xpm. 20:00:13 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 20:00:49 thanks for the help 20:03:05 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:03 -!- lboard [n=lboard@117.193.203.101] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 20:07:58 orgulloso [n=luke@cpc4-norw4-0-0-cust60.pete.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:54 -!- orgulloso [n=luke@cpc4-norw4-0-0-cust60.pete.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 20:09:07 sepisultrum: there's CLX-specific code for image drawing that used to be in Closure and has been moved to McCLIM. You could probably extract that from McCLIM by means of copy&paste. 20:10:25 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:30 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:06 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 20:11:36 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 20:13:40 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 20:13:56 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 20:13:58 peddie [n=peddie@MCNAIR-FOUR-SEVENTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:14:00 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:14:16 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-61-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:41 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:17:23 alinpopa [n=alinpopa@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 20:18:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-106-180.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:18:13 -!- alinpopa is now known as alinp 20:18:38 -!- alinp [n=alinpopa@89.137.98.94] has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:52 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 20:20:02 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Client Quit] 20:20:16 alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 20:24:49 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:44 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 20:28:06 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:32 -!- prxq [n=mommer@Xb833.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:31:45 -!- fufie is now known as Fufie 20:32:26 deepfire: is it normal that sb-sprof is much slower than the other profiler ? 20:34:11 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 20:34:20 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:35:32 lichtblau: yeah, I've thaught about that too. I'll have a look at that code later 20:37:16 deepfire: unbearably slow that is (at least 20 times slower (still running)) 20:37:26 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:37:41 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:38:14 auclairb: the statistical profiler runs your code repeatedly until it has gathered enough samples. 20:38:18 -!- antoni [n=antoni@138.100.145.248] has quit [] 20:40:16 by defualt 20:43:08 ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has joined #lisp 20:44:52 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:57 dwave [n=ask@062249177064.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 20:48:06 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.69.1.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:49:31 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:52:40 the ordinary profiler is faster but often less useful 20:53:34 can the statistical be interrupted? 20:53:45 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-158-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:53:48 C-c C-c ? 20:53:51 C-c C-c doesnt seem to do anything 20:54:01 killall -9 sbcl 20:55:05 stassats: barbarian ways :P 20:56:20 and specify :loop nil 20:58:02 cmatei [n=cmatei@89.136.176.182] has joined #lisp 20:59:55 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:00:10 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf204.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:02:48 -!- Grilinctus [n=heysquid@122.162.158.114] has quit ["(hefner) standards for publication in #lisp are very high"] 21:03:52 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-177-89.netcologne.de] has quit [] 21:04:29 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-60-182.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:50 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:07:59 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-213.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:09:14 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:09:25 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:44 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@85.210.66.47] has quit [] 21:12:30 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 21:15:32 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:15:32 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 21:17:51 -!- ``Erik [n=erik@ftp.brlcad.org] has quit ["leaving"] 21:18:08 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:21 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@37.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:19:41 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:21:14 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has left #lisp 21:24:02 antoni [n=antoni@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:24:14 -!- BrianBek [n=BrianBek@0x573fd50a.cpe.ge-0-2-0-1104.arcnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has left #lisp 21:25:24 -!- beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-109-8.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:27 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:28 beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-13-15.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:27:21 -!- antoni [n=antoni@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:38 antoni [n=antoni@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:27:53 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:31 -!- alinp [n=alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 21:29:41 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig112.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 21:32:39 tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 21:35:26 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host136-154-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:24 -!- dwave [n=ask@062249177064.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 21:38:13 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:42:12 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:51:15 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 21:51:18 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:51:45 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:52:24 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:54:14 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-158-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 21:54:33 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:54:44 antoni` [n=user@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:55:52 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:56:09 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:57:06 there was talk here about which VPS providers are lisp/sbcl-compatible. I know tech.coop works... what about slicehost and linode? Someone mentioned having trouble with one of those? 21:59:23 -!- antoni` [n=user@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:59:40 -!- antoni [n=antoni@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [] 22:01:23 antoni [n=user@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 22:01:33 slicehost should work as long as you keep track of the amount of memory you use (they are normal Xen instances) 22:02:03 -!- antoni [n=user@98.pool85-53-23.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:02:21 is there a reason why linode wouldn't work? (it seems to use Xen, too) 22:02:34 also, what happens if memory goes over the limit?.... 22:03:11 sykopomp: If you exhaust memory on linux with overcommit enabled... prepare to enter world of hurt 22:03:24 kirkwood [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:26 p_l: whatever happened to swap? :| 22:03:38 sykopomp: I said "memory", not "core" :P 22:03:45 oh 22:03:53 of course I meant all of VM 22:06:42 anyway, OOM-Killer is not nice 22:06:55 sbcl doesn't react very well to swap thrashing either, especially when gcing 22:07:55 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:09:16 it would be nice if you could have better control over memory... not C-style, but setting hints etc. or manually controlling memory pool to be used 22:10:09 -!- mvilleneuve [n=mvillene@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:13 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 22:14:03 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:17:41 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:17:59 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:09 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:24:47 sykopomp: why could you ever want to go anywhere but tech.coop? 22:24:57 *drewc* is fixing cliki 22:25:13 cliki broke again? 22:26:03 Ogedei` [n=user@e178214106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 nope, bytemark had to move xen-three, and cliki is the only thing left on that mbox. 22:26:37 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-200-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:45 s/mbox/box 22:26:47 Ahh. 22:26:50 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:27:02 Good uptime, then. 22:27:18 i was hoping to have cliki moved to the new box by now, but real work takes precendence. 22:27:29 Far better than lisppaste gets, though that's at least partly due to the irc interface. 22:27:49 >_> 22:28:05 That does mean that a full dedicated server is being used to run cliki in a 128 mb VPS... only a minor waste of money and resources :| 22:28:30 nyef: cliki has excellent uptime, probably due to running in a single thread 22:28:43 Partly, I'm sure. 22:29:13 nyef: uCLiki, the next-gen cliki, is almost ready. I'll be running the ALU wiki with it, and if that works, cliki itself. 22:29:23 Also partly due to the essential simplicity of not having anything other than the webserver running in the image. 22:29:29 -!- kirkwood [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has quit [] 22:29:59 uroboros [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:30:00 nyef: indeed. and it helps that the webserver was in fact written pretty much specifically for the cliki. 22:30:12 Heh. 22:30:24 kirkwood [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:44 uCLiki is UCW based, of course. 22:30:49 Of course. 22:30:53 totzeit [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:27 -!- uroboros [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 22:31:53 uroboros [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:33:00 did nobody even notice cliki was down? i must be getting good at this. 22:33:05 minion: did you notice? 22:33:07 yes, i notice 22:33:13 thought so. 22:33:17 i-bot [n=i-bot@71.175.42.169] has joined #lisp 22:33:56 Heh. Can I take credit for minion noticing by virtue of being the last person to make a code change in that image? 22:34:34 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:34:47 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 22:35:06 froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 22:35:59 -!- uroboros is now known as mjf 22:36:05 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:11 mjf [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:36:26 jaked_ [n=jaked@71.175.42.169] has joined #lisp 22:36:39 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:44 mjf [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 22:37:02 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:54 nyef: i think that's fair :) 22:38:09 Even though I didn't actually touch the bots... 22:38:11 sphix [n=msphix@aaqm33.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:38:42 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:39:12 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:31 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:39 tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 22:41:20 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:32 (show me on the dalek where nyef touched you) 22:42:06 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:42:28 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178230046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:45:08 Meh. No ACTION support in this version of cl-irc. :-/ 22:45:38 -!- kirkwood [n=kirkwood@dsl102.zipcon.net] has quit [] 22:47:29 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:48:08 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:50:22 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:51:33 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:35 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:54:42 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 22:55:51 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:58:44 -!- joga [i=joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:02:57 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 23:03:37 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:04:47 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:26 nyef: what? 23:06:55 nyef: is this a really really really pre-historic version of cl-irc? 23:07:01 Probably, yeah. 23:07:09 It's whatever lisppaste is running. 23:07:22 because usually it should be just a ctcp subclass 23:07:38 Hrm. Maybe it is, then. I didn't find it, though. 23:07:40 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44beb4.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:08:45 or you could just send a privmsg with (code-char 1) + ACTION prepended to it (: 23:08:50 (privmsg (format nil "~AACTION sighs~A" (code-char 1) (code-char 1))) 23:09:16 Yeah, not worth it for a quick joke. 23:09:22 awwww 23:09:28 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D72B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:09:31 inconceivable! 23:09:35 *tcr1* wonders whether it'd be worth to add "sbcl-bug #nnnnnnn" to specbot 23:09:53 -!- tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:00 It'd be a minion function, not a specbot function, really. 23:10:17 And it's an https site, so entirely not going there right now. 23:10:57 does it have to do anything but spit out a url with the # in the right place? 23:11:11 Yeah, it has to look up the bug title. 23:11:22 And plausibly the reporter. 23:11:51 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 23:13:33 Anyway, I think I have bug 309132 mostly nailed. 23:14:01 jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:38 should I always use #' for fns? 23:14:56 btw, launchpad does apparently have an API: 23:14:57 https://help.launchpad.net/API 23:14:59 jli: Rather than what? 23:15:18 tcr, rather than not. e.g., (mapcar (lambda (elt) (whatever elt)) list) 23:15:23 *tcr* has to discover that brucio.blogspot.com does not exist anymore :( 23:15:46 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 23:16:09 jli: in that case, LAMBDA is a macro that expands to # 23:16:14 sorry .. 23:16:23 #'(LAMBDA ... ) 23:16:33 jli: I personally use sharpquote on lambda, some do not. It's a personal preference. 23:16:41 tcr, okay, thanks. thanks drewc. 23:16:54 jli: See http://trittweiler.blogspot.com/2008/12/on-relationship-of-lambda-and-lambda.html for the whole picture. 23:17:25 foom: API -- good. OAuth -- not so hot. Making an HTTP request from minion -- dangerous. 23:21:45 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 23:22:01 nyef: foreign.test.sh still fails for me because of that OSTYPE thingie 23:22:16 Did it get patched? 23:22:33 Apparantly not 23:23:00 tcr, thanks 23:24:00 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-87-193.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 23:24:08 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:13 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:25:50 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 23:27:29 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:27:44 auclairb [n=auclairb@206.167.180.24] has joined #lisp 23:30:21 -!- sely [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:32:10 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:18 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:34:34 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:38:05 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:39:24 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:34 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 23:41:41 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:41:49 -!- jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 23:42:07 Die, bug 309132, die! 23:43:16 I can't seem to make this code work: 23:43:23 (defun add(x y) 23:43:23 (+ x y)) 23:43:23 (defun sub(x y) 23:43:23 (- x y)) 23:43:23 (defun choose(x y c) 23:43:24 (if (= c 1 ) 23:43:26 (list (add x y))) 23:43:28 (if (= c 2 ) 23:43:30 (list(sub x y)))) 23:43:34 Stop spamming the channel. 23:43:37 jaked_: it'd be great if you'd use a pastebin 23:43:39 We have a pastebot for a reason. 23:43:59 spamming? pastebin? 23:44:11 -!- pkhuong [n=pkhuong@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:44:11 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:44:14 my intention was not to spam the channel 23:44:23 jaked_: the channel is for conversation only 23:44:31 minion: tell jaked_ about pastebot 23:44:32 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``pastebot''. 23:44:36 ... better leave then 23:44:40 -!- jaked_ [n=jaked@71.175.42.169] has left #lisp 23:44:40 No, no... It's lisppaste. 23:44:40 minion: tell jaked_ about lisppaste 23:44:41 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 23:44:48 ah, well 23:45:05 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:45:11 It's also in the bloody topic. 23:45:18 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has quit [] 23:46:14 Perhaps not well signed, but it's there. 23:47:33 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 23:47:36 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:49:46 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-224-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 23:49:56 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-0-246.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 23:50:54 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 23:52:45 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:53:12 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:54:36 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 23:55:54 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has quit [""GNU is *indeed* Not UNIX!""] 23:56:47 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:49 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-158-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:57:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:49 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:55 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:58:55 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:10 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 23:59:26 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:49 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection reset by peer]