00:00:08 what do you need metasheep for? 00:00:45 hefner: dispatching messages, and defining and manipulating the properties of the sheep object itself. 00:01:00 *nyef* points out that Smalltalk-80 has a metaclass system where each class is an instance of Metaclass, including the class of Metaclass. 00:01:15 that's what the CLOS MOP does, too. 00:01:42 but it's trickier when you're dealing with a MOP using prototypes, since each prototype serves the purpose of both a class and a full object. 00:02:01 in class-based systems, classes are "over there", and you refer to them... 'over there' 00:02:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:02:33 is this an agrarian revolt? 00:02:34 I fail to see how, but maybe I'm not thinking it through enough. 00:02:51 weirdo [n=sthalik@c133-93.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:02:58 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 00:03:00 hey 00:03:00 i found out where to put slime-setup, finally 00:03:09 if anyone's interested, it's eval-after-load "slime" 00:03:26 hefner: quite possibly 00:04:12 nyef: instances in closette are structs with a class slot and a slots slot, with the slots being arrays. 00:04:16 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-11-4.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:04:28 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:04:56 ... And? 00:05:19 you can make instances without having to create another instance of a class 00:05:46 I'm confused now. Ugh. 00:06:03 I don't see a problem. So every, er, sheep has a metasheep that controls dispatch and property access. Why shouldn't that work when the metasheep is manipulating itself? 00:06:45 I'm... not sure. 00:07:14 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["g'night"] 00:07:57 I'll try that again in the implementation. I don't know why I kept thinking I couldn't make the metasheep a metasheep of itself. 00:09:38 -!- peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:10:30 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:13:14 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host202-129-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:18:54 so another partial evaluation macro came into existence 00:19:02 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 00:21:32 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:22:52 -!- p_l [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["leaving"] 00:23:29 p_l [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:25:11 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:31:26 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:45 prip [n=_prip@host202-129-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:33:37 -!- prip is now known as prip_ 00:34:12 bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has joined #lisp 00:35:33 freethink [n=chatzill@72.14.228.1] has joined #lisp 00:44:43 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:48:06 segyr [n=terje@ti311110a080-4147.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:52:03 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 00:54:07 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 00:55:07 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:58:28 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B168D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:00:48 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:49 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-2-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 01:03:35 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:50 peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:15 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-2-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:09:35 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:40 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-2-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 01:16:29 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:57 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:09 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:15 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 01:27:55 -!- peddie [n=peddie@cpe-076-182-103-193.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:29:42 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:06 ajcc [n=ajcc@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:18 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:32:32 Aww yeah 01:33:01 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:37:11 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:13 I'm very confused about common lisp and scheme, would an old textbook on lisp (common lisp) be useful today? I really like the mathematical look of the Lisp syntax. But when I asked, people said I should look up scheme instead. What should I do? 01:41:11 in this channel, you should read a modern book on common lisp, like practical common lisp 01:43:49 what's the bot name on lisp again? 01:43:58 minion: pcl 01:43:59 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 01:44:07 ah thanks 01:44:16 minion: help 01:44:16 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 01:45:03 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:47:23 cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:33 -!- jlf` is now known as \` 01:48:40 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:48:44 -!- \` is now known as jlf` 01:49:22 stassats: I see :) 01:52:11 -!- kthakur [n=kthakur@c-24-16-36-36.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:54:30 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:54:41 __death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 01:55:16 -!- ajcc [n=ajcc@81-234-211-246-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has quit ["leaving"] 01:57:26 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-150-128.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:58:03 Strav [n=user@69-196-152-86.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:05 omg911 [n=omg@CPE00402b407f68-CM0011aec50bd8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:57 Sorry for a slime oriented question but, I wonder, if possible, upon raising the debugger, to change a function's argument to another expression to be evaluated on continue or stepping further. 02:00:52 would be so cool if lisp took some features from scheme and haskell without the CL baggage... what you think? 02:02:43 i think that you sound like a troll 02:03:08 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:03:12 Strav: that's implementation-dependent 02:03:20 also probably (optimize debug)-dependent 02:03:45 k, argh but I shouldn't have asked now. Familyguy time. 02:05:13 stassats: nah, just a worried scheme user hoping CL would clean up its qurks and continue to innovate 02:08:01 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:09:06 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:10:34 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-167-71.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:14:32 gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-176.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 02:19:23 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 02:19:29 omg911, CL is a ball of mud. feel free to add haskell- and scheme-inspired features on top of it. 02:21:40 -!- saikat [n=saikat@99.48.51.134] has quit [] 02:26:22 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-95-190.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:52 -!- Strav [n=user@69-196-152-86.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 02:28:07 -!- spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@cpe-74-73-111-254.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:28:54 nice! Slime has 124 contributors! 02:29:30 freebsd and apache have fewer core developers 02:31:41 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:32:10 omg911: there already exists some stuff that takes CL and makes it act more like a pure functional language. 02:32:17 but alas, Common Lisp is not a functional language. 02:32:21 don't feed the troll 02:32:33 hefner: good point. 02:33:36 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:36:46 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:48 (better to transplant CL features to scheme anyway, scheme almost by definition not having any) 02:38:58 the inlined-C stuff in slime/contrib/swank-goo.goo; is that a goo thing or is there a reader hack that lets you inline C in CL? 02:39:29 sounds like a bad idea, imo 02:40:17 #{ must be a goo reader macro, or a reader macro for goo's implementation language or whatever 02:42:18 hefner: maybe but not many would want to start over on another scheme especially since there are so many 02:42:19 omg911: (just read the logs) try to play with FSet, it has all the fuzzy nice feelings of "clean functional design". 02:42:45 just change the back end of CL to be scheme and start to phase out CL functions until a good level 02:43:15 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["game time"] 02:45:20 scheme is sort of a waste of time unless you're an academic or something. 02:45:31 It's a useless language for anything practical, which is such a pity. 02:45:36 Maybe if it were a lisp-2, it wouldn't suck. 02:45:38 *sykopomp* goes back to code. 02:45:49 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:47:38 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087DCD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:37 I did hack a few things for my ISP in Bigloo, so it wasn't completely useless. 02:48:42 sykopomp: scheme is good when there is no CL for that "problem" 02:49:13 fusss: I disagree. I am yet to see a reason to believe scheme is anything more than a toy. 02:50:29 sykopomp: i have a project in the pipline where they want a DSL for stats and data warehousing. no way in bloody hell you could get approval to run wild code on those machines, but they allow C and anything bootstrapped by the Sun compiler. Tinyscheme in there I can throw. 02:50:36 anyway 02:51:27 1:1 translation of SPSS and R code they wrote themselves, fwiw. 02:52:49 ayrnieu: thanks again. i found out i can define new slime commands with defslime-repl-shortcut :-) 02:53:26 benny` [n=benny@i577A0C77.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:54:20 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483C993.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:55:57 ah, cool. 02:58:49 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:06:05 tim_sharitt [n=tsharitt@unaffiliated/timsharitt] has joined #lisp 03:08:47 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0401.versanet.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:10:13 fusss: what sort of business are you hacking this for? 03:11:01 caoliver: i have no idea. i got the project through a former lisper and so far i have only seen a nasty NDA and a high-level sketch, no specifics or names. 03:11:20 all i got was "ETL" 03:12:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extract,_transform,_load 03:14:26 Ok. Given a nasty NDA, we can stop right here. 03:17:22 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.240.13] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:20:29 fusss: Why not use Chicken Scheme? 03:20:59 p_l: i usually use whatever i know best. the simpler the better. 03:21:18 fusss: It would go nicely with C (it compiles everything to C and you can disable runtime compiling) 03:21:21 there is allot of back and forth calling to C-land, so i thought not to get too clever 03:21:29 What are the major diffs between gambit and chicken? They seem to share some DNA. 03:23:16 hmm.. I don't know gambit, though according to its wiki it's faster than Chicken 03:24:07 Chicken prides its C interop and being in theory portable everywhere with ANSI C compiler 03:25:02 as you can simply drop C code into scheme functions in Chicken 03:25:24 mornin' 03:25:34 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:46 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:27:55 hmm... I recall there was once a lisp implementation designed for worm-style apps, anyone can point me to the name? I can't find it again... 03:27:59 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:03 worm like the game where you direct one to eat apples, or worm like malware? 03:29:23 oh, Mosquito Lisp. It's now called Wasp Lisp. 03:29:28 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:30:08 like malware :D 03:30:12 http://waspvm.blogspot.com/ 03:30:29 fusss: you absolutely don't want to handle R. I'm not sure what idiomatic R looks like, but full R is a mess. 03:30:48 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:31:04 ayrnieu: thx 03:31:52 I can imagine Wasp Lisp as a pretty good way to sell lisp to my uni's computing society :) 03:31:58 p_l: Looks like BC has a good entry on it: http://bc.tech.coop/blog/061119.html 03:32:02 pkhuong: i'm fairly confident my client knows better than to write messy R. an old Zeta Lisp geek :-) 03:33:32 p_l: is this the lisp with the rootkit injection api builtin? :-P very clever stuff i though, a whole vm in ring-0 running amuck. 03:34:45 fusss: I can imagine this getting practical usage by people in the society, but it follows the "no questions asked" rule xD 03:36:25 for someone who has his hands in "recaptcha-mailhide.lisp" at the moment, i sure sympathize with blackhats :-D 03:36:57 -!- jsoft_ [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:37:09 *p_l* currently doesn't have any hat, but is looking for a grey one 03:37:12 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:38:38 Also, I can see quite a lot of legit uses for such thing :) 03:40:59 p_l: you speak russian? 03:41:07 (sorry if that's an offensive question) 03:41:23 fusss: No (and it's not offensive question). 03:42:19 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:42:21 i was gonna tell you to go for BH-SEO if you're into adventure 03:42:35 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:43:11 hmm... I dislike SEO, I'd be much happier working against it :) 03:44:34 As for legit uses of drone system like Wasp Lisp... It would be very useful in active defence situations 03:46:28 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:43 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:48:08 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:50:43 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:14 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:54:46 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:57:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:02:56 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 04:03:55 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:06:14 *sigh*, dns propagation, the last bottle neck :-S 04:06:48 brewski [n=wbruschi@cpe-74-75-38-198.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:47 recaptcha wants your visitors IPs, fuck that 04:09:14 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:09:59 fusss: What are you working on, exactly? 04:10:19 msg me :-) 04:10:19 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:13:20 -!- yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has quit ["  ."] 04:14:10 -!- enn [i=eli@ahab.flyoverblues.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:51 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 04:16:21 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:18:01 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 04:25:29 -!- brewski [n=wbruschi@cpe-74-75-38-198.maine.res.rr.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:26:53 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.142.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:30:46 iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:43 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:38:24 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:39:04 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:36 semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 04:49:48 -!- iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:49:59 bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-153-168-233.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:27 Riastradh: hey 04:53:27 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 04:53:33 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:54:33 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 04:55:31 Hi. 05:02:04 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 05:02:17 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:34 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [] 05:05:52 0.o 05:10:26 sely [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:00 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 05:18:29 I have sbcl, and have things like hunchentoot loaded (along with its dependencies of course). How do I go about making a working executable? 05:18:55 Draggor: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Saving-a-Core-Image.html 05:21:02 I read that, but get errors when I try to start the program 05:21:24 paste them please? 05:23:08 Draggor pasted "save-lisp-and-die" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75566 05:24:44 The toplevel function I'm calling is hunchentoot:start-server :port 8080 05:25:36 Draggor: how did you call s-l-a-d? 05:26:37 (sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die "myproggy" :toplevel #'start :executable t) 05:27:51 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 05:28:07 <_3b> shouldn't the toplevel wait for the server to exit? 05:29:12 -!- ahaas [n=ahaas@c-76-17-41-185.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:29:20 <_3b> or i guess wait forever if the sbcl docs are right and it shouldn't return 05:30:28 *_3b* was guessing from the error it wanted a return code to pass back to the OS on exit or something 05:32:33 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:32:52 Good morning. 05:33:00 mornin' beach 05:33:33 silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:34 I'm also unable to quit from that error 05:34:14 Draggor: probably. Read the doc; that deep in primordial code, not respecting the contract is bound to be painful. 05:35:56 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 05:36:38 Draggor: i wouldn't dump hunchentoot into a lisp image if i were you 05:36:48 specially a redistrbutable one 05:37:26 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-76-17-41-185.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:27 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:26 hunchentoot is built with https with openssl and FFI code didn't play well for me when saved to core 05:39:03 fusss: there are load hooks you can try and use to work around that sort of problem. 05:39:05 you can load anything you want at startup from your .sbclrc; my setup is a double clicked batch file on Windows. 05:39:37 what do you mean load-hooks? something sbcl specific? 05:39:42 yes. 05:39:57 make-load-form tricks? no? 05:40:00 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:40:12 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 05:40:21 sb-ext:*init-hooks* 05:41:08 pkhuong: can I still play with that even if i'm using CFFI 100%? or must i be using alien? 05:41:29 it's just a list of functions. 05:42:16 So, if I have that toplevel function return 0, it works, but then it runs and quits right away 05:42:26 I need it to keep running until I tell it to quit, heh 05:42:33 Draggor: Try reading the documentation. 05:43:31 pkhuong: Is there an example I can look at? Love docs and all, but examples are nice too. 05:44:30 Don't return. 05:45:52 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 05:46:56 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:47:22 I don't recall Graham releasing ANSI CL online 05:47:27 Okay, it runs, doesn't exit, but, making a request results in a fatal error. Doesn't tell me anything past that however. 05:50:49 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 05:50:55 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:51:04 Draggor - if you're just doing this to get something like a unix executable, use #! /path/to/sbcl --script , suffer somewhat longer start-ups. 05:51:53 ayrnieu: hadn't actually considered that 05:53:17 -!- silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:54:56 and there is always fastcgi 05:56:19 and all other kinds of server bridges 05:57:10 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:57:27 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:58:50 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 06:03:31 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:03:42 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 06:08:21 hefner, indeed I did slap my forehead when I got back. Thanks ayrnieu for the help! 06:10:12 scode_ [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 06:13:02 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 06:13:59 -!- scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:15:09 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 06:16:42 -!- repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-225-2-177.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:21:15 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:21:31 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:33 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:35:10 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:36:47 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:39:09 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:45:24 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 06:45:26 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.128.41] has joined #lisp 06:47:46 Hello 06:48:39 Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.172] has joined #lisp 06:52:44 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:04 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 06:56:54 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:57:17 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Client Quit] 06:57:55 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:58:28 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 07:00:00 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["I'm off!"] 07:04:20 -!- segyr [n=terje@ti311110a080-4147.bb.online.no] has quit [] 07:05:12 -!- tim_sharitt [n=tsharitt@unaffiliated/timsharitt] has quit ["bye people"] 07:05:52 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:08:06 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-243-82-104.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:10:51 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-181-114-9.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:17:59 heya MrSpec 07:18:12 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:19:47 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:24:35 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has joined #lisp 07:24:43 -!- bitweiler [n=bitweile@adsl-69-153-168-233.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:26:24 lichtblau [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:54 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has joined #lisp 07:29:58 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-217.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:53 good morning 07:34:01 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has quit ["The textures may be less detailed than Crysis, a game in which everybody appeared to have their ravaged, dirty-pored skin ] 07:34:56 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has joined #lisp 07:36:30 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:36:50 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:39:57 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-95-190.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:40:19 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:41:35 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:43:23 mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:28 good morning 07:54:17 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 07:58:17 -!- 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alinp [n=alinpopa@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 09:31:33 alinpopa [n=alinpopa@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 09:31:45 -!- alinpopa [n=alinpopa@86.122.9.2] has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:01 alinpopa [n=alinpopa@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 09:32:46 -!- alinpopa [n=alinpopa@86.122.9.2] has quit [Client Quit] 09:33:00 alinpopa [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 09:33:35 -!- alinpopa [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has quit [Client Quit] 09:33:59 alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has joined #lisp 09:36:01 X-Scale [i=email@89-180-87-193.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 09:38:39 toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:04 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:41:38 SBCL 1.0.22 on x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux: An mprotect call failed with ENOMEM ... maximum amount of separate memory mappings was exceeded. ... increase the maximum with e.g. 'echo 262144 > /proc/sys/vm/max_map_count' => what does the number mean (MB/blocks(size?) - i do have 64GB here)? can someone give me a pointer/url/man/info/hint? 09:44:55 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-77-31.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:45:46 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:48:24 -!- Soulman [n=kae@77.75.208.226] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:48:33 hsaliak` [n=user@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 09:50:13 saikat_ [n=saikat@99.48.51.134] has joined #lisp 09:51:35 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:52:32 trebor_dki: if an application create a huge number of small memory mappings, it's not that much memory. Just bad practice. 09:53:32 trebor_dki: for example, 262144 * 16 bytes is only 4Mb. 09:54:05 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:09 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@99.48.51.134] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:59:30 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 10:00:15 kuwabara1: you mean, i have to rewrite the application (the parts which allocate memory)? 10:00:45 saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-61-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:54 nostoi [n=nostoi@154.Red-83-54-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:18 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 10:06:20 I mean two things. 1: the max_map_count is a count, so 262144 is not necessarily that bad. 2: malloc only allocates on the heap so it only uses 1 memory mappaing, whatever the number of blocs allocated, when an application uses multiple mmaps instead of malloc, it's simpler for its garbage problem, but it really reports the problem to the OS, it's not very nice. 10:06:50 s/, when/. When/ 10:08:45 I didn't know SBCL was using mmap that much. Maybe you are doing something uncommon regarding memory management, and SBCL method becomes inapropriate for this case ? 10:08:57 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:12:58 kuwabara1: thanks for your patience. sorry i am a lisp-beginner. this is my first application (out of two;). it runs nice on linux 2.6.26-1-686-bigmem #1 SMP (but i only have 4gb ram here). so i tried it on the bigger machine (rhel5 - 64gb ram - 2.6.18-53.el5 #1 SMP). it is a kind of a simulation of particles. the number of particles was less on the big machine than it was on the smaller. can it be that 64-bit sbcl (1.0.22) behaves 10:12:58 differen regarding to memory management? 10:13:40 *rsynnott* wants a machine that big :) 10:14:32 (i only use make-instance, some simple vectors, structs... no special memory management, i do not call gc directly ...) 10:16:48 *trebor_dki* would appreciate a lisp (ecl) to compile to cuda ;) that would be a killer-killer 10:17:37 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:18:46 bbl (1h) 10:19:08 trebor_dki: I'm sorry I can't help you more than that. My comments are very general and not specific to SBCL, you'll have to ask your question again when people with more knowledge listen to you. 10:19:10 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["bbl"] 10:20:39 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:25:46 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-092-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:27:08 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-211.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 10:28:59 trebor_dki: you have to either enable or disable memory overcommit, I forget which. 10:31:20 -!- segyr [n=terje@ti311110a080-4147.bb.online.no] has quit [] 10:31:31 trebor_dki: the latter. set the vm.overcommit_memory sysctl to 2 10:33:14 kuwabara1: sbcl allocates the entire Lisp heap using mmap (a bunch of gigs upfront too) 10:35:47 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:35:49 luis: using a new mmap for each new block ? 10:36:06 -!- saikat_ [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-61-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:37:34 HET4 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:39:10 kuwabara1: also, you can't get 16byte memory mappings on most machines :) 10:39:30 kuwabara1: no, just one mmap for the whole heap 10:40:02 64bit sbcl allocates 8G of memory upfront. AFAIK it might allocate more later. 10:40:15 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@XPLR-TS-10-VAN-67-201-133-74.barrettxplore.com] has joined #lisp 10:42:14 p_l: I don't think it does, does it? 10:42:40 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 10:43:07 luis: That's what it does on my machine, without using any special options 10:43:26 which is why I don't have disabled overcommit, yet 10:43:40 p_l: how do you tell it allocates more memory? 10:44:15 luis: Oh, you mean if it allocates more memory later? I don't know, I'd trigger OOM before hitting 8G 10:44:48 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:44:54 I might try adding 20G swap and disable overcommit and then run something that would eat all ram... 10:44:58 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@154.Red-83-54-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:45:25 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:46:10 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 10:46:22 p_l: I don't think it allocates more memory later, though David Lichteblau has a patch to make it do that. 10:46:45 Manage the dsik on your own. Why try keeping everything in RAM? 10:47:06 p_l: do you have more than 8GB on your machine? 10:47:07 luis: That patch afaik also changed the initial allocation 10:47:17 luis: Only 2G :) 10:47:30 -!- Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:47:39 and unless 4G SODIMM modules appear, I have no chance of running 8G :) 10:47:40 Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:47:51 afk 10:49:32 trebor_dki: AIUI, CUDA offers major performance benefits in areas where you have to run the same code over and over again on a large dataset, and it's inherently parallel. Doesn't seem like it would be very useful for generic CL code. 10:50:13 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:53 probably not usually useful for compiled code in general, actually 10:50:58 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 10:55:34 p_l: I think I got that backwards. setting overcommit_memory to 2 probably counts as "enabling" 10:57:30 trebor_dki: you have to set it to 0. Doh. 10:57:40 *luis* shuts up now 11:01:34 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 11:07:55 ntoll [n=ntoll@host86-128-200-117.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:53 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-092-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:17:25 -!- mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:20:16 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 11:23:59 rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:39 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:27:32 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:28:04 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-131-7.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:30:16 mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has joined #lisp 11:30:27 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:52 yo 11:31:54 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:35:35 luis: sorry for delay, i was having lunch. so i have to echo 0 > /proc/sys/vm/max_map_count, right? 11:39:42 -!- Jarvellis is now known as djarvelis 11:40:04 ("Unix system call select() failed: ressource not available [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR]") 11:42:54 i think this one is not related to the problem above, but that is what sbcl (sldb) complains now. 11:45:53 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:50:24 trebor_dki: probably, I think you can safely everything I just said. Sorry for the noise. 11:50:28 *ignore 11:52:49 -!- slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:53:38 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:41 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:59:47 yet, I'll try again :) 11:59:59 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 12:00:02 trebor_dki: what was the previous value of /proc/sys/vm/max_map_count? 12:00:23 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:03:45 luis: 65536 12:04:13 luis: i let the admit set it to 655360. 12:05:05 (up to now more particles could be added than on my standard-machine) 12:05:27 elurin [n=user@88.231.217.199] has joined #lisp 12:06:48 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:07:59 trebor_dki: out of curiosity what's the value of /proc/sys/vm/memory_overcommit? 12:08:02 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A88C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:30 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA9E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:40 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0EF06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:08:43 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 12:08:48 "morning" 12:08:53 luis: did you get your report done? 12:09:29 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0EF06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:40 Xof: yeah, though I should work on a new version 12:10:41 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 12:11:15 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 12:12:05 when I'm happier with it I'll send an RFC to sbcl-devel :) 12:12:37 Xof: where does that magic 37 constant come from in sparc arch_os_get_context? 12:16:11 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 12:16:13 luis: i do not have a file named /proc/sys/vm/memory_overcommit here. 12:19:24 but cat /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory gives 0. 12:19:32 how does overcommit_memory even enter into this discussion? I thought you're having a max_map_count problem. 12:20:09 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:20:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:20:51 Xof: ah, I see in your blog that it's from "grovelling the stack". 12:20:54 I'm not a kernel expert, but mprotect() is probably the culprit in that case, so incremental allocation could -perhaps- make things slightly worse, but definitely not better. 12:21:52 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:22:35 hello 12:22:37 lichtblau: what do i have to change/look for in my code? as i said before, this is the same application which runs on my normal (32bit) machine with no problems. 12:23:54 trebor_dki: there is nothing you can change in your application 12:23:59 mega1: I think I just looked at everything on the stack to see what most looked like a sigcontext 12:24:13 "oo, that one has a vaguely-plausible $pc in the right slot" 12:24:55 ans lichtblau is right that this is a mprotect issue, and the people talking about mmap, overcommit etc. are very confused 12:25:07 jsnell: do i have to call sbcl with different parameters? i did sbcl --dynamic-space-size 30000 (is this relevant at all?) 12:25:19 trebor_dki: if the software is reasonably portable, you could give ccl a go; it also runs on x86_64 12:25:57 rsynnott: thanks, googling. 12:26:11 trebor_dki: no. read the error message, it tells you all the possible things you can do to fix this problem 12:26:22 a) change the value of the kernel parameter 12:26:30 b) recompile sbcl with the suggested parameter change 12:26:48 (clozure common lisp) 12:26:57 though getting sbcl going would be preferable, of course 12:27:43 Xof: I tearing my hair out on this one. I have two sparc64 machines to test on. On 1.0.25 one of them compiles fine and the other segfaults. On the interrupts branch + some fixes both compile, but and what wasn't compiling before works perfectly while the other gives some nasty errors on anything basically anything interruptish. 12:28:28 One is 2.6.24 smp, the other is 2.6.26. 12:28:49 I honestly don't know 12:29:11 I think I would have to read kernel sources 12:29:47 yes, that's what I don't want to do ... 12:30:05 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:32:54 jsnell: thanks, for your answer. i changed /proc/sys/vm/max_map_count - my problem is that i do not exactly know what number would be approriate (the error says e.g....), i would be fine with recompiling sbcl, too (if i knew to which number i should change the limits). i already googled for the error messages. i asked here, because i am not really sure what those parameters do (sorry i am a beginner, but if you point me to 12:32:54 google-search-words/urls/man/infos - i read them). 12:34:07 I cannot tell you what number would be appropriate either, it depends completely on your workload 12:34:59 the most conservative possible number would be that you can use at most gencgc-page-size*max_map_count*4 bytes of memory 12:35:32 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA9E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:35:45 so if you want to be sure of never, ever seeing that error that's how you'd need to tune those two parameters 12:36:51 on the other hand, increasing the sbcl page size will make garbage collections slower (potentially a lot slower), and presumably increasing the kernel parameter arbitrarily would likewise have some bad effects 12:37:15 jsnell: thanks, i will do so (for now i changed it from 65536 to 655360). the error "unix system call select() failed" is not related to this, i presume, right? 12:40:52 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:42:05 eharry [n=Administ@117.32.235.112] has joined #lisp 12:49:54 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA9E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:50:46 robyonrails [n=roby@host136-154-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:54:16 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:29 Soulman [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:36 -!- freethink [n=chatzill@72.14.228.1] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:58:28 -!- eharry [n=Administ@117.32.235.112] has quit [Client Quit] 12:59:11 -!- HET4 [n=diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:59:14 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 13:00:07 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 13:03:10 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 13:05:03 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:07:11 -!- semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:08:04 jsnell: yeah, I have no idea why brought memory overcommit up 13:08:37 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-158-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:10:29 slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 13:24:04 kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has joined #lisp 13:25:10 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 13:25:41 -!- hsaliak` [n=user@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:31:23 sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B67C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:56 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:38:51 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:39:12 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 13:40:13 -!- toddoon_ [n=guillaum@mic92-8-82-234-142-186.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:43:02 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:11 -!- AllNight^ [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [] 13:55:21 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 13:55:36 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1EFD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:13 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1F553.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:43 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit ["SUCK A GIANT DICK MR_FLEA"] 14:01:24 Spike_ [n=Spike@57.Red-88-27-127.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:48 hi everybody! 14:02:03 hello 14:02:09 afternoon 14:02:29 -!- rread_ [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:03:02 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:09 i have a problem that might be quite simple, but i cant find a clue, and thought that maybe you can point me on how to do it 14:03:53 tell us what it is 14:04:06 i have a list that looks like ((a b c)(d a f)(a b)()(a d e)) 14:04:25 and would like to get (a b c d a f a b a d e) 14:04:41 alexandria:flatten 14:04:49 minion: alexandria? 14:04:50 alexandria: Alexandria is a collection of portable public domain utilities. http://www.cliki.net/alexandria 14:04:51 exactly, flatten the list 14:05:02 this has something of the nature of a homework problem 14:05:25 not exactly 14:05:35 i more a scheme problem 14:05:36 "using alexandria:flatten" is a good answer to a homework 14:05:46 um, no, no it isn't 14:06:35 because the point of the homework is not to achieve the flattening, it is for the student to understand and internalise the issues involved in straightforward tree processing 14:06:56 yeah, i know, i was joking 14:09:06 but anyway, if you have no clue, looking at the code in alexandria might help 14:11:21 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:53 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:39 flatten is rather easy to implement otherwise 14:12:57 anyone here had experience with lower-level details of linux dynamic loader? 14:14:10 am I the only sbcl developer for whom foreign.test.sh fails because of an unset variable in sbcl-pwd.sh? 14:14:13 dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:50 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:56 G'morning all. 14:15:08 hello nyef 14:16:08 heya 14:17:20 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.128.41] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:22:11 clim accept 14:22:12 Multiple entries found. Try looking up one of: "accept,Presentation Method", "accept,Function" 14:22:14 clim accept,Function 14:22:14 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/23-5.html#_1202 14:25:35 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 14:25:45 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C333.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:00 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-87-237.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:33 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:36 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:33:43 -!- poet [n=tim@64.198.227.140] has quit ["leaving"] 14:34:44 auclairb_ [n=auclairb@ip181-214.natdynamique.USherbrooke.ca] has joined #lisp 14:36:15 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has quit ["Warranty voided upon receipt of final payment."] 14:36:32 Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has joined #lisp 14:37:42 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:54 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:41:52 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit [No route to host] 14:42:05 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:32 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-159.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:43:09 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@99.179.103.172] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:43:45 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:43:56 pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:38 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.184.255] has joined #lisp 14:45:22 -!- auclairb_ [n=auclairb@ip181-214.natdynamique.USherbrooke.ca] has left #lisp 14:45:28 auclairb_ [n=auclairb@ip181-214.natdynamique.USherbrooke.ca] has joined #lisp 14:51:19 -!- theoffset [n=ismael@201-130-230-208-cable.cybercable.net.mx] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:52:49 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:16 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-136-91.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:55:24 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:30 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.239.192] has joined #lisp 14:58:00 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:58:48 -!- __death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 15:00:02 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 15:00:16 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-26-107.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:02:50 With a filesystem-as-database setup for serilized objects, what's a good maximum number of objects per directory? 15:02:53 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 15:04:08 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-80-167.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:04:11 -!- beach` is now known as beach 15:04:13 -!- xan is now known as xan-afk 15:04:39 Good afternoon. 15:04:44 Hello beach. 15:05:21 hello beach 15:05:36 hEllo beach, 15:05:44 hello beach 15:05:49 hello beach 15:06:03 what a warm welcome! 15:06:15 Clearly, everybody's bored. 15:06:24 Clearly! 15:06:35 oh, hey beach 15:07:05 *cmm* concurs 15:09:31 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-158-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:09:42 speaking of bored, heh. 15:09:55 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 15:12:06 tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has joined #lisp 15:13:32 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit ["...may the Source be with you..."] 15:13:48 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 15:18:00 nyef: a couple hundred, I'd think 15:18:11 (depends on your filesystem) 15:18:28 I'm actually more concerned about browsing the storage from a shell. 15:19:14 256 is probably reasonable, isn't it? 15:20:00 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 15:20:53 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:21:44 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:25:35 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 15:26:19 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:30:03 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:31:54 -!- _dd is now known as dima_ 15:31:56 auclairb__ [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 15:32:02 -!- dima_ is now known as _dima 15:33:14 Good Morning 15:33:29 hello Fade 15:35:13 Hey beach 15:36:25 hello 15:36:43 -!- auclairb__ is now known as auclairb 15:38:48 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:40:04 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:40:19 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-213.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:40:20 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-196-35.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 15:42:36 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-153.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:45:07 -!- auclairb_ [n=auclairb@ip181-214.natdynamique.USherbrooke.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:49:42 milanj [n=milan@91.148.92.61] has joined #lisp 15:49:58 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A88C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:50:21 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-159.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 15:50:50 -!- elurin [n=user@88.231.217.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:52:01 Could you give me books' titles, or websites where I can find information about Symbolic Algebra in Lisp ? 15:53:16 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0C7B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:37 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:53 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 15:59:33 Computer Algebra with LISP and REDUCE: An Introduction to Computer-Aided Pure Mathematics. 15:59:58 listed at amazon. F.Brackx, D.Constales authors. 16:00:07 I have no idea if it's any good. :) 16:00:08 I've found it but 200$ ... 16:00:15 and no ebook :/ 16:00:17 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@78-1-165-48.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:00:21 PAIP does some symbol symbolic algebra 16:00:29 s/symbol/simple/ 16:01:17 o thx, I'll take a look 16:02:57 Dare I ask if the maxima site would have any useful information? 16:03:33 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-217.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:05:19 nyef: I suspect the site not, but the code yes (warning, some of it would feel quite right with MACLISP on PDP-10 with ITS) 16:09:27 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-217.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:58 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:59 -!- kuwabara1 [n=kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 16:10:26 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-131-7.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:10:31 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0EF06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:34 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-132-217.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:18 abend [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 hmm anyone have an idea about what's wrong with the first test at http://pastebin.ca/1339031 16:14:01 considering that a simpler test case using litteral numbers worked fine 16:14:04 at the repl that is 16:14:11 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:14:30 -!- mega1 [n=mega@4d6f51b6.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:14:58 phadthai: case doesn't evaluate the case values 16:15:07 mega1 [n=mega@3e44ae8e.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:15:10 Is there something similar to a pipe in cl ? (push stuff at head and get it from tail) 16:15:12 so it only works with symbols/eq? 16:15:13 You can use #.+address-concurrency+. 16:15:52 phadthai: eql 16:16:00 auclairb: that's commonly called a queue. You can easily find simple cons-based implementation on the web or in PG's On Lisp (iirc). 16:16:02 hmm ok 16:16:03 thanks 16:16:26 I think nikodemus posted/committed a lock-free queue. 16:16:46 I think streams also support such fifo-style operations if you don't mind the overhead 16:16:57 pkhuong: thanks 16:18:21 josemanuel [n=josemanu@49.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:21:56 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@49.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:32 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-157-208.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:22:38 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:23:38 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:23:42 in a way, it might be more elegant for REASON parameter to be a keyword symbol rather than a fixnum, possibly 16:26:07 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-136-91.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:26:13 -!- dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:30:00 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 16:33:10 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 16:33:59 kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #lisp 16:34:07 where can i read about #-(....) and #+(....). is it that #+ccl will compile(evaluate?) the next form only if current lisp-implementation is ccl? #-(or sbcl ccl) will ommit compilation/evaluation of the next form if lisp-implementation is either sbcl or ccl? 16:34:11 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:34:46 trebor_dki: the form will be skipped by the reader. Everything happens in the reader. 16:34:56 And yes, you seem to have the gist of it. 16:35:11 clhs 1.5.2.1.1 16:35:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/01_ebaa.htm 16:35:32 it uses *features* , though. 16:35:37 -!- alinp [n=alinp@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:36:10 Xof: &void_context+37 == void_context 16:36:28 this looks like an obfuscation contest winner to me 16:38:30 pkhuong, ayrnieu: thanks. 16:39:06 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:41:01 lum_sais [n=v@84.78.71.246] has joined #lisp 16:41:05 -!- kryptiskt [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has left #lisp 16:41:29 dabd [n=dabd@mouse.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 16:41:43 -!- sely [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:43:47 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:49:50 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:05 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:53:17 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 16:54:17 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:55:47 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C333.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:56:17 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #lisp 16:56:24 jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-253-92-135.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:06 ejs [n=eugen@123-174-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 -!- aerique [n=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:58:27 trivial-special-variable-p.lisp (in-package :cl-user) #+sbcl(require :sb-cltl2) #-abcl(defun special-variable-p (symbol) #+ecl(si:specialp symbol) #+ccl(proclaimed-special-p symbol) #+sbcl(eql :special (sb-cltl2:variable-information symbol))) 16:59:43 Why require sb-cltl2 and not just use the infodb? 17:00:41 that's what stassats did. I didn't know about either of these. 17:01:19 -!- jsoft__ [n=Administ@118-92-178-252.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:38 (defun special-variable-p (symbol) (equal '(:special t) (multiple-value-list (sb-int:info :variable :kind symbol)))) 17:01:52 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 17:02:16 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:02:35 -!- H4ns2 is now known as H4ns1 17:03:02 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA9E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:03:05 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 17:04:08 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA9E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:22 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:05:22 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:05:44 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:05:44 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 17:08:52 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-159.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:09:50 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-153.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:11:03 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 17:11:23 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 17:12:12 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@host86-128-200-117.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 17:15:35 OK, cool. src/compiler/globaldb.lisp does this. 17:15:57 -!- rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:19:20 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfb4f.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:32 rotty [n=rotty@83-215-154-5.hage.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #lisp 17:20:05 Chronona1t [n=bjorn@obvcode.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:05 -!- Chrononaut [n=bjorn@obvcode.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:22:06 -!- slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:10 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 17:24:19 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 17:24:28 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 17:25:06 Are there examples using cffi-grovel anywhere accessible? 17:25:20 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:26:08 LiamH: http://repo.or.cz/w/iolib.git?a=blob;f=src/syscalls/ffi-types-unix.lisp;hb=HEAD 17:26:31 LiamH: and http://repo.or.cz/w/iolib.git?a=blob;f=src/iolib.syscalls.asd;hb=HEAD 17:27:22 hm, what exactly do 'eq hash tables hash? with a moving GC, the memory address of the keys doesn't really work 17:27:34 fe[nl]ix: Thanks, those look helpful. 17:27:55 Ogedei: you can always rehash when needed. 17:28:19 pkhuong: yes, but in a generational collector, you'd need to do that constantly 17:28:19 Alternatively, you can store an hash value in objects. 17:29:54 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has joined #lisp 17:34:28 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:35:02 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:35:28 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:54 mjf [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 17:39:23 mun [n=mchan@host86-147-40-157.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:24 hi 17:39:28 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:39:42 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-173-50.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:49 i'm trying to run some ACL code, can I install CMUCL instead? 17:40:02 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:40:28 mun: depends whether it's portable code or not. and try SBCL instead of CMU 17:42:25 Ogedei: i see. is "Allegro CL Free Express Edition" the genuine environment for running ACL code? 17:42:47 mun: yes, that should work 17:42:58 lacedaemon [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:43:20 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:43:27 Ogedei: great. the code i got is quite old (acl5.0), would it still work in acl8.1? 17:43:33 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:44:08 "it depends" 17:44:17 -!- Aankhen`` [n=heysquid@122.162.158.80] has quit ["Induhvidual Quote: It's like a monkey on the back of the elephant in the room."] 17:44:25 you could always contact Franz Inc's technical support 17:44:29 they will be delighted to help you 17:46:01 right, ok. 17:47:59 josemanuel [n=josemanu@49.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:49:30 i'm very new to lisp, so please bare with me. 17:50:19 it seems to me ACL is a commercial product, so is SBCL the best free alternative? 17:50:22 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:50:26 to run ACL code, that is. 17:51:27 to run Common Lisp code? 17:52:00 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 17:52:49 jewel: well, the manual says that it's implemented in Allegro Common Lisp. do i need to have ACL to run it? 17:55:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:55:16 mun - TIAS already. We don't have your code. You may find that it uses a package that you don't have. This may be a package that comes with ACL. You may have to do a bit of work to provide that package with some other library. 17:56:51 does anyone have experience with writing code that works under sbcl & ccl? 17:56:58 ayrnieu: ok thanks 17:57:45 what does tias mean? 17:57:53 try it and see. 17:57:58 oh, thanks 17:58:02 minion: What does TIAS mean? 17:58:03 Tornadic Irrecordable Antipatriotic Seigneurial 17:58:40 -!- ejs [n=eugen@123-174-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:58:53 clim command-enable 17:58:53 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for command-enable. 17:58:54 i do not use any special libraries only some clos & structures, but i am totally lost in debugger messages 17:58:55 clim command-enabled 17:58:55 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/28-4.html#_1537 17:59:36 (after trying to run code (which works nice in sbcl) in ccl. 17:59:39 trebor - try pulling up the problematic lisp in slime and then step through your code until you hit the error. 18:04:27 ayrnieu: SWANK-BACKEND:ACTIVATE-STEPPING not implementated :# 18:05:06 Athas: are you around? I think I have better fixes to the two issues about drei that I mentioned 18:05:12 not yet "good" fixes but better ones 18:05:36 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.184.255] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:51 Oh, yeah, I'm not sure the line you removed is necessary at all. 18:05:56 -!- jlf` [n=user@adsl-76-253-92-135.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Operation timed out] 18:06:05 trebor - so manually step through it. 18:06:13 It's only there so Drei doesn't block application frame-defined keystrokes. 18:06:24 But that might not be necessary... dunno. 18:06:52 I think it might be necessary so that you can run commands that aren't part of the current syntax's command table 18:07:12 maybe from menus or that kind of thing 18:08:05 also, the *minibuffer* one: there's a better place to bind *standard-input* so that it works for M-: and M-x and everything else, I think 18:08:13 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-97-16.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 18:08:55 nikki93 [n=nikki@78.101.214.207] has joined #lisp 18:08:59 Hey guys! 18:09:19 I usually program in C, C++, python, and have recently tinkered with some Haskell. 18:09:29 I'd like to check out Lisp. Is it cool? 18:09:42 Athas: http://paste.lisp.org/display/74926#1 18:10:16 minion: pcl 18:10:17 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:10:45 nikki93 - it's very cool. Try starting out with that book. 18:11:19 I can't think of any objections offhand. 18:11:23 ayrnieu: Ok. 18:11:59 Athas: thanks. I kind of wish there were more than one user 18:12:02 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:12:07 at least, more than one user at a time 18:12:31 I can fix the infinite recursion in command-tables thing by fixing the ACCEPT presentation method not to set (frame-command-table ...) 18:12:35 BTW, lisp was my aunt's first programming language 18:12:45 She says it's got some pretty cool ideas. 18:12:47 does sbcl --no-sysinit have the same function as acl -qq? 18:12:52 -!- addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 18:13:01 at least I can do that if I use default-top-level; esa-top-level is still setting the frame-command-table in ways that makes things go boom 18:13:09 I know there are many lisp variants. What would you suggest? Common lisp? 18:13:48 nikki93: This channel is dedicated to Common Lisp, so I suspect most would recommend just that :) 18:13:51 The distribution I use has a package for a clisp interpreter, that would be easy to set up. 18:13:54 Ah. 18:14:09 Oh. 18:14:41 nikki93: This is where things get odd. clisp is not the same as common lisp. clisp is one, out of many, implementation of common lisp :) 18:14:47 nikki93: sbcl is also nice, real easy to set up 18:14:52 you can get a binary at sbcl.org 18:14:56 compiling it is easy as pie, also 18:15:15 schme: Of course. I langauge is just a standard... 18:15:21 s/I/A/ 18:15:29 nikki93: Also you will probably find it easier to get help with sbcl issues here. rather than clisp issues :) 18:15:47 nikki93: And for the love of schme! do not use your distros lisp packages (: 18:15:50 Whaddya guys use? 18:15:55 Ok. 18:15:55 o/ sbcl 18:16:04 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:05 Everyone is on sbcl ;) 18:16:05 teamregis [n=teamregi@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 18:16:24 -!- teamregis [n=teamregi@124.124.233.5] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:35 Though if you plan to run on windows.. maybe clisp is a better choice. 18:17:27 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 18:17:28 nikki93: What you really need is that there PCL book, emacs, SLIME, and clisp or sbcl :) 18:17:41 schme: Linux FTW! 18:17:51 schme: No, I use gvim. 18:18:01 Right. 18:18:13 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:18:22 I don't mean any disrespect for vim here, but for lisp emacs *really* is a better environment :) 18:18:47 I know. elisp and all. 18:18:54 nikki93: Though I'm sure tic would love your help on making vim nice :) 18:19:00 But I'm totally a vim person already. 18:19:03 teamregis [n=teamregi@124.124.233.5] has joined #lisp 18:19:09 hi everybody 18:19:10 It's not so much the elisp that makes it nice, it's SLIME that makes it nice :) 18:19:23 I think I'll start with some CLI interactive interpreter hacking though 18:19:29 elisp... is a bit of a pain in the behind. 18:19:41 errr.. 18:19:42 You mean *that* behind? 18:20:01 CLI repl is a really bad choice when you can have SLIME :) 18:20:02 SBCL has an interactive interpreter? 18:20:25 Yes. But if you plan to run it in an xterm or some such, then clisp really has a nicer CLI interaction thingie. 18:20:35 -!- lacedaemon [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:20:36 nikki93 - use rlwrap for nice paren-matching and history, then. 18:20:56 Nah, that's fine. Paren-matching is almost built-into my head. 18:21:04 History might help. 18:21:19 my god. 18:21:38 built-in paren-matching. Have you seen lisp code? ;) 18:22:54 is LISA Project dead? 18:24:18 schme: I know. Lisp means many parentheses. But really, I'm fine with it. 18:24:31 That's great :) 18:24:32 you stop seeing the parens after a while 18:24:35 The one thing I really think is cool about lisp is the structure. 18:24:41 -!- kg [n=imkin@little-black-box.vmware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:51 The 'everything is a list'ness. 18:26:23 teamregis: I am looking at the CVS statistics, and there does not seem to have been any "write transactions" or "devel read transactions" for the last 12 months.. Seems a bit abandoned. 18:27:00 *schme* waits for someone to hand out a big "there are no lists" ;) 18:27:41 Athas: anyway, I'll keep plugging on at this. Do you have any drei-gadget-using code that would be able to test any of my putative changes? 18:27:43 *nikki93* is confused 18:27:52 kg [n=imkin@little-black-box.vmware.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:59 teamregis: Maybe you should mail the project person :) 18:28:46 Is there a lisp interpreter bot here? 18:29:01 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:29:02 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:29:02 there isn't. 18:29:31 acieroid [n=quentin@9.250.98-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:38 hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 18:29:53 -!- hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has left #lisp 18:30:04 vim? what, who? 18:30:13 nikki93, Limp! or vim-ecl. 18:30:18 wow 18:30:31 I juste wanted to ask something about limp 18:30:43 I can't get it working under freebsd 18:31:02 daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 18:31:13 Okay. I'm a bit busy atm, but maybe you could describe your exact problem & config in #limp? 18:31:25 (could be that I'm assuming gnu for the binaries) 18:31:29 Spike__ [n=Spike@254.Red-79-152-164.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:41 'k 18:32:01 tic: you're a vim user? 18:32:22 Fade: Deriving from schme's comments, I believe he is. 18:32:48 another day, another surprise. :) 18:33:00 21:19 < schme> nikki93: Though I'm sure tic would love your help on making vim nice :) 18:33:12 *ayrnieu* adds http://www.cliki.net/rlwrap 18:33:16 mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:39 ayrnieu: sudo pacman -S rlwrap 18:34:29 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C333.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:16 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:36:22 http://www.xach.com/img/lisp-and-vim.png 18:36:22 does anyone have experiences about speed / memory management of ccl versus sbcl? sbcl (1.0.22) seems to be 3x faster than ccl and ccl creashes (stack-overflow) with only calculating 20% of the particles sbcl handles (particle simulation). 18:36:50 (same machine) 18:37:04 Fade: Which is why I use python to customize vim to talk to lisp :P 18:37:32 Fade: lol 18:37:36 :) 18:38:46 Any of you guys used FORTH? 18:38:53 lboard [n=lboard@117.193.193.64] has joined #lisp 18:38:59 maybe 18:39:02 only insofar as openboot is written in it. 18:39:04 A friend of mine says it's awesome. Not for real practical use, but the ideas arecool. 18:39:05 trebor - the ccl wiki has some benchmarks against sbcl, but you already have one there. My only suggestion is that ccl may have poorer type inference, so you could try following your profiler with type decorations. 18:39:07 can any one help me with cffi 18:39:16 nikki93 - yes, quite a bit. 18:39:27 nikki93: I'm sure #forth would disagree on that :) 18:39:46 schme: ;-) 18:39:52 Zephtar [n=srusek@d57-112.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:39:53 i'm getting this error : FUNCALL: undefined function NIL 18:40:00 -!- lum_sais [n=v@84.78.71.246] has quit ["cerrando"] 18:40:11 schme: Your name reminds me of scheme. Once I was on a search for good embeddable scripting languages, scheme seemed nice, but I was a lisp-noob 18:40:34 lboard - if you enter (funcall nil) at the repl, do you get that same error? 18:40:43 nikki93: Yes.. my name is a horrible accident. I am aware of people getting the scheme connection. 18:40:46 -!- schme is now known as schmx 18:40:58 schmx: lol 18:41:10 ayrnieu: its an error when i exec a cffi function 18:41:11 the drscheme environment is pretty impressive. and impromptu is one of the most interesting projects I've run into in the past year; it's a shame it's siamese twinned to OSX 18:41:43 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:41:52 Is there a way to get the same effect as princ with format, or is there a way to get princ to just create a string in place instead of printing it out? 18:42:01 also, built in continuations are nice. 18:42:09 lboaard - OK, let's suppose that you tried to answer my question and saw that you got that same error from '(funcall nil)'. This suggests that something you are doing is leading to that. Maybe some CFFI function that is meant to return a function fails to do so. 18:42:43 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 18:43:04 ayrnieu: yes, i'm getting the same error 18:43:17 Fade - (format nil "~A" '(a b |c|)) => "(A B c)" ; you can also use with-output-to-string 18:43:30 Zoba - 18:43:35 tanks ayrnieu 18:43:39 *thanks 18:45:11 lboard - try pasting what you do with CFFI at paste.lisp.org/new/lisp ; maybe someone will see the problem. 18:45:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/75578 18:46:27 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:36 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:41 -!- dabd [n=dabd@mouse.inesc-id.pt] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:47:20 -!- Spike_ [n=Spike@57.Red-88-27-127.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:58 ayrnieu: i pasted 18:50:53 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 18:51:16 lboard - that looks right. 18:53:49 lboard - what implementation are you using? 18:55:09 -!- Zephtar_ [n=srusek@d57-112.icpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:32 Fade, yeah, I'm the author of Limp 18:57:04 Has anyone here used LISA? 18:57:29 *nod* 18:57:50 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:57:53 lboard - anyway, SBCL warns about "undefined alien" when the function is undefined, and then crashes with "Attempt to call an undefined alien function". I'd guess that MessageBox doesn't exist in that library, or that it isn't as you have it there. 18:58:00 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:10 EXetoC [i=EXetoC@c-cc92e155.1422-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:58:30 libuser32 is a wine library? 19:00:52 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:34 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit ["leaving"] 19:05:06 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 19:07:21 sorry, i'm back, i'm using clisp in windows 19:11:18 silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:54 Fufie1 [n=Frog@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:12 Umm... That's a downright dangerous definition. 19:13:20 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["Reboot!"] 19:13:38 MessageBox is an stdcall function, which means it pops its arguments off the stack. 19:14:11 defcfun declares cdecl functions, which means that the caller pops the arguments from the stack. 19:14:25 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 19:14:46 ok i will try agin and be back 19:16:26 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:45 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 Is there a function for checking if a character exists in a given string? 19:18:59 (defcfun ("MessageBox" msgbox :calling-convention :stdcall) 19:19:14 nyef: didn't work 19:19:48 -!- teamregis [n=teamregi@124.124.233.5] has quit ["leaving"] 19:20:02 EXetoC: Yes, there is... Probably a couple of them, in fact. 19:20:42 clhs search 19:20:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_search.htm 19:20:52 EXetoC: Do you just need to know existence, or do you want counts, positions, or anything else? 19:21:28 EXetoC: (find #\a "fast") 19:21:29 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:32 strings are sequences 19:21:43 anything that works on sequences will work on a string 19:23:10 That's understating the situation. Strings are vectors specialized to hold characters. Vectors are sequences. 19:23:11 ExetoC: (position #\a "fast") 19:23:53 nyef: even after changing to stdcall it does not work 19:24:03 -!- silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:24:56 lboard: At least it doesn't work but corrupt your heap if you don't wrap the call in an empty let. 19:25:12 (That was -not fun- when it happened to me.) 19:25:12 lboard: thanks. the first will do. 19:25:54 hm. position is faster than find in sbcl. That's counter-intuitive 19:26:05 nyef is there a sequence operation that will not work on a string ? 19:26:25 xristos: Not that I'm aware of. 19:26:36 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 19:26:43 Well, there are strings that will break almost everything done with them, but that's another matter. 19:27:13 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:28:18 limp requires the 'common lisp hyperspec'. Where can I get that? 19:28:32 minion: clhs? 19:28:33 clhs: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 19:30:04 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 19:34:07 dlowe: certain about that? 19:34:33 pkhuong: with the perfect accuracy of a (time (dotimes ...)) loop 19:36:07 guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:26 there are some interactions with toplevel forms VS compiled functions, but in a compiled function, both should expand into the same code, if the arguments' types are precise enough. 19:37:30 *: is ccl good on windows 19:37:51 pkhuong: you mean if I call it as (the 'boolean (position #\a "Fast")) or what? 19:38:01 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:06 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:38:46 lboard, http://trac.clozure.com/openmcl has the windows port at 'alpha.' 19:39:30 pkhuong: I thought the position function would take slightly more cycles, for incrementing a counter or for getting the difference between the found element and the base address and shifting. Apparently not, though 19:39:41 cpape [n=user@88.130.190.74] has joined #lisp 19:39:46 thanks 19:39:56 that's a bad test case since it could easily be constant folded away; luckily, SBCL doesn't do that. I meant more like (lambda () (declare (optimize speed)) (position #\a "Fast"))) 19:40:22 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:32 you need a counter to index in the sequence anyway. 19:41:34 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:07 With SWAR code, it would be different, but the overhead of computing the exact position is probably negligible compared to the traversal. 19:42:38 the index-less code would be FIND's 19:42:43 cmihai [n=user@unaffiliated/cmihai] has joined #lisp 19:43:04 but that assumes that strings have sentinels. 19:43:18 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has quit [Success] 19:43:20 oh, well. It's a negligible difference 19:43:27 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-178-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:59 limp is awesome! 19:44:18 dlowe: the difference is noise; POSITION and FIND both punt to %position-find in SBCL. 19:44:32 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-196-35.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44:50 heh. I guess so, then 19:45:40 minion: limp? 19:45:41 limp: Limp, a Lisp IDE for vim. http://www.cliki.net/limp 19:48:56 sely [n=rps@c-24-7-206-73.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:17 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:51:48 where is sbcl bugs page 19:52:13 -!- Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 19:52:39 lboard: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl 19:53:35 Modius__ [n=Modius@adsl-66-143-165-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:07 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:54:40 sorry for this dumb question, but what means a # i.e. this expression => (mapcar #'not '(nil, 2))? 19:55:36 guille_ it means (function not) 19:55:39 clhs function 19:55:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_fn.htm 19:56:09 '(nil, 2) is suspect. 19:57:19 pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:44 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-159.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 19:57:59 -!- nikki93 [n=nikki@78.101.214.207] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:59:19 ah ok, and when do you need to use the => ' ? 20:00:27 when you want the literal list (nil 2) instead of the result of evaluating (nil 2) 20:00:39 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:01:36 ah ok, thanks :) 20:02:33 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has joined #lisp 20:03:32 what about the comma? 20:03:48 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.239.192] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:05:06 clhs 2.4.7 20:05:06 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dg.htm 20:05:14 exetoc - ^ 20:05:21 sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:20 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:06:30 ayrnieu pasted "clojure's "commas are whitespace"" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75584 20:08:58 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-211.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:09:55 -!- lboard [n=lboard@117.193.193.64] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 20:10:19 ayrnieu: i know that. i just thought the comma had to be right before "2" 20:10:47 I think you could also make them not error outside of backquote, but that's A) even more pointless, and B) not portable, I think; SBCL has SB-IMPL::*BACKQUOTE-COUNT* 20:11:47 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.5.46.47] has joined #lisp 20:12:41 -!- herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12:51 AllNight^ [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:14:54 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 20:16:28 herbieB [n=herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:35 chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1ea0.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:17:52 i hate when variables on sbcl are not available in the debugger in debug 3... 20:18:49 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1ea0.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:20:14 chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1ea0.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:20:29 saikat [n=saikat@adsl-76-254-61-64.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:14 me too 20:26:00 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:32 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:28:04 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 20:28:19 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1ea0.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:26 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-178-149.netcologne.de] has quit [] 20:28:30 chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1ea0.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:30:08 bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:34 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:32:14 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:38:57 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:39:10 dwave [n=ask@212251241125.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:40:28 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:40:50 willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:42:30 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 -!- cmihai [n=user@unaffiliated/cmihai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:42:58 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:36 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r6y221.net.upc.cz] has quit ["dew on the telephone lines"] 20:53:56 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:33 -!- guille_ [n=guille_@4.Red-81-37-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:55:36 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-157-208.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:55:39 Cronos [n=a@5ad01ff3.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:41 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:59:52 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:02:00 Jacob_H_ [n=jacob@92.3.151.26] has joined #lisp 21:04:38 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:05:47 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:07:23 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:12 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c133-93.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:10:44 LiamH: any problems with cffi-grovel ? 21:10:49 weirdo [n=sthalik@c133-93.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:11:00 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 21:11:09 fe[nl]ix: just understanding it 21:11:23 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.5.46.47] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11:23 understanding how to apply it really 21:11:42 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-19-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:46 I have some symbols in .h files that I want to have magically available in lisp. The CFFI manual isn't clear on how to set that up start to finish, so the links you sent are quite helpful. 21:13:12 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:13:32 Is there a better way to indent loop macro on emacs? http://paste.lisp.org/display/75589 21:13:51 I mean is there a way to indent loop macro like the pasted one. 21:14:30 LiamH: the easiest way is to use cffi-grovel:grovel-file as file type in an ASDF system 21:14:51 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfb4f.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:15:05 yes, I see that 21:15:26 <_3b> tomoyuki28jp: (require 'slime-indentation) (slime-indentation-init) ? 21:16:00 tomoyuki28jp: See my slime talk. 21:16:06 _3b: oh yes, it's the one!! thanks a lot. 21:16:14 LiamH: otherwise you can use cffi-grovel:process-grovel-file 21:16:42 <_3b> tcr: is that the right way to load that? 21:16:48 fe[nl]ix: that's what I was missing: the forms like in ffi-types-unix.lisp is not meant to be read by the evaluator, but by the grovel routines. 21:16:55 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:57 _3b - I (now) have: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf slime-indentation)) 21:18:06 <_3b> ayrnieu: that sounds better, i'll try that 21:18:30 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-100-210.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:50 LiamH: the grovel forms are READ, but not EVALuated 21:19:44 yes 21:19:48 _3b: slime-setup is better; I do not use slime-indentation, though. You can get correct loop indentation otherwise; I submitted that one as an emacs bug, but haven't heard back so far. 21:19:48 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 21:21:54 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 -!- Jacob_H_ [n=jacob@92.3.151.26] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:15 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 21:26:25 Jacob_H_ [n=jacob@92.4.55.143] has joined #lisp 21:27:59 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1ea0.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:47 Too many lisp dialects..*grumble* need to learn emacs lisp next, heh. 21:33:40 *nyef* may end up with bloody GNU clisp soon. :-/ 21:34:22 nyef: what for ? 21:34:44 Win32 development. 21:34:53 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:22 Just saw that their FFI has been... fixed up a bit since last time I checked. 21:35:51 And since SBCL/Win32 just isn't ready for use yet... 21:36:37 I can't say I do much on windows, glad too since sbcl works well on linux. 21:36:43 nyef: how about clisp? 21:37:02 oh you mentioned it 21:37:12 Yeah, and the irony is painful. 21:37:20 What's bad about it? I'm using it now since i'm back to the evil side 21:38:00 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:38:06 http://www.cormanlisp.com/license.html ;; cheap 21:38:20 \o/ 21:39:05 EXetoC: One of the reasons I'm not a fan of clisp is their FFI, which requires using a C compiler... but they fixed that. 21:39:14 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:22 But the irony is that I did the initial porting of SBCL/Win32. 21:39:50 ha-ha! 21:40:21 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 21:40:27 oh. nice 21:40:35 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:41:59 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-19-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:43:03 -!- Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:43:52 nyef, ECL works on windows pretty well too, even with threading.. 21:44:08 deepfire: Requires a C compiler, though, doesn't it? 21:44:33 nyef, yes, either mingw or msvc. 21:45:20 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@49.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:45:37 Yeah, I'm hoping to avoid setting up a full compile environment. 21:47:32 -!- xan-afk is now known as xan 21:47:34 Anyway, that's something for the future. 21:48:59 -!- Jacob_H_ [n=jacob@92.4.55.143] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:49:22 GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.185.53] has joined #lisp 21:49:49 -!- AllNight^ [n=EnglishG@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has quit [] 21:49:53 dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 21:50:13 hello 21:50:30 is it "all right" to call functions from a lisp macro? 21:50:53 Yes, because a macro that can't call functions is pretty bleeding useless. 21:51:34 not in the result of the macro, but in its code 21:52:27 Yes, in its code. Backquote almost has to be implemented in terms of function calls. 21:52:38 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:18 but if I define a function and use it in a macro, when I compile the program all macros should be expanded 21:53:32 Now, if you're defining your own functions for use in a macro, then you might run into compile-time dependencies. 21:53:44 but my function is not defined yet, so expanding that macro results in an error 21:54:08 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:55:24 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:21 when using a repl this isn't a problem, but if you do a full compile on that source.. 21:56:37 Well, step one is to have all of the functions used in a macro defined before the macro is first used. 21:57:12 how can you do that if you're compiling the file? 21:57:14 And step two is to use EVAL-WHEN to make sure the definitions happen at compile-time-too if they're in the same file... 21:57:21 clhs eval-when 21:57:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 21:57:44 oh.. that's something else :) 21:57:44 thanks 21:58:08 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 21:58:17 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:00:11 No problem. Best of luck. 22:02:06 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host136-154-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:10 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 22:03:02 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-97-16.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:04:11 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:46 mega1` [n=mega@53d835c8.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:06:50 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:06 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-178-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:48 GrayShade, you don't have to use eval-when when functions you call are define in another compilation unit (i.e. another file) 22:08:10 GrayShade, you also don't need to use eval-when when you don't call these macros in the same compilation unit as they're defined 22:10:54 weirdo: thanks, I'll keep that in mind 22:13:28 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44ae8e.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:14:49 Beket [n=stathis@ppp16-146.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:14:50 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:16:19 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:13 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:24:24 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:25:28 -!- archangelpetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:25:48 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 22:25:54 auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 22:29:38 -!- antoinevg [n=antoine@alonzo.artifactual.org.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:30:08 antoinevg [n=antoine@alonzo.artifactual.org.za] has joined #lisp 22:30:45 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-97-16.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 22:31:57 hi 22:33:18 i'm trying to install a program, but i'm very new to lisp. i'm getting a compilation error saying that "Attempt to make a FUNCTION definition for the name WHILE as a MACRO." i'm compiling using acl8.1, and I believe the script was written in acl5 or acl6. was WHILE permitted to be a function definition back in 5/6? 22:33:45 No, it wasn't. 22:33:47 clhs while 22:33:47 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for while. 22:33:55 Err... Maybe it was. 22:34:20 Bleh, I'm mixing up the loop keyword with WHEN and UNLESS. 22:34:46 nyef: so is while a keyword now? 22:35:09 Loop keywords aren't required to be normal keywords. It's a bit of a terminology overload. 22:36:20 -!- GrayShade [i=GrayShad@79.117.185.53] has quit [] 22:37:02 -!- ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:37:06 right 22:38:27 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:30 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 22:39:36 nyef: do you know why while is reserved now? 22:39:44 No, I have no idea. 22:39:52 I'm not an ACL user. 22:40:06 ah alright. 22:40:11 thanks 22:45:31 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:47:56 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:48:30 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-58-39.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:01 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:46 clhs defclass 22:51:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 22:54:13 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:29 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:54:40 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:15 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:00:47 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:01:23 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:14 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.138.139] has joined #lisp 23:02:20 -!- p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:20 phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:49 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 23:04:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:03 -!- Soulman [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:05:09 Soulman [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:05 -!- mega1` [n=mega@53d835c8.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:15:03 mun, (symbol-package 'while) might 23:15:08 know the answer 23:16:08 minion: paste 75603? 23:16:08 Paste number 75603: "Clojure...Im doing it wrong" by blbrown in #clojure. http://paste.lisp.org/display/75603 23:16:48 ... Not as potentially funny as the title suggests. :-/ 23:16:55 hehe 23:17:23 still kind of verbose and ugly though, even for clojure 23:18:09 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:18:23 Mmm. I'm only even paying attention because I'm restructuring the paste object creation interface, and am watching to see if I broke anything. 23:20:30 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-078-043-185-251.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 23:22:58 -!- tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:26:00 what's this "semantic web" thing and is it worth learning? 23:26:17 it's an W3C thing. No. 23:26:21 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:26:29 It's ontologistic! 23:26:29 allegrocl does it so i wondered 23:26:37 back 23:27:13 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 23:27:15 The more ontologistic parts of the semantic web seem to be the least exercised... 23:29:32 There are useful ideas in the Semantic Web. There is also an inordinate amount of content-free fluff and broken engineering. 23:31:39 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-24-21-76-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:33:50 clhs ~[ 23:33:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgb.htm 23:34:26 -!- Cronos [n=a@5ad01ff3.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:34:26 sellout- [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:25 ontological? how? like prolog? 23:35:54 -!- sellout [n=greg@cpe-67-241-206-65.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:06 -!- EXetoC is now known as Kananssnail 23:37:26 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ 23:38:50 Hrm. 23:39:04 Oh. Oops. 23:39:50 -!- phf [n=phf@c-98-231-211-226.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:40:01 nyef annotated #75599 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75599#3 23:40:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-97-16.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:40:09 There we go, that's what I wanted to see. 23:40:15 wow, it's helluva complicated 23:40:27 with a dozen of specifications all written rather dryly 23:41:02 it would be useful, though, if html could be generated automatically from this RDF stuff 23:41:35 weirdo: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7t2ky/it_is_becoming_increasingly_difficult_to/c07btk7 23:42:14 Riastradh: My opinion is that the higher it gets on the food chain, the worse it gets. My feelings about OWL have ripened from disdain to detestation.... 23:43:23 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 23:43:24 nyef pasted "Test paste" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75609 23:43:47 nyef annotated #75609 "Further test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75609#1 23:43:59 -!- Kananssnail is now known as EXetoC 23:44:23 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-189.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 23:45:10 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:47:15 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless108.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:49 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-178-149.netcologne.de] has quit [] 23:49:59 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:50:16 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit ["leaving"] 23:50:23 disumu [n=disumu@p57A245A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:59 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:52:58 ANy suggestions for going about writing a grammar in lisp? 23:53:33 that's a pretty open ended question. 23:53:48 Draggor: grammar? Or parser? 23:55:37 is there a way to undeclare a variable special (undefvar?) 23:55:43 I need a lexer 23:56:50 LiamH: "It depends". 23:57:04 Draggor: cl-yacc 23:57:31 fe[nl]ix: Oh spiffy, thank ye 23:57:42 nyef: I have variable that's been defvared, I want to make it a symbol macro. SBCL objects. 23:57:49 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:45 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:22 stupid question: did slime-define-key go away? Is there something else I should use? 23:59:45 LiamH: I think that the only portable solution is to unintern the symbol. makunbound won't help 23:59:48 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-143-169.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp