00:00:28 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:01:22 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:03:10 erflynn_2 [n=evan@132.198.13.158] has joined #lisp 00:03:21 how do you check if a sequence is empty in common lisp? 00:03:50 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 00:04:25 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:45 (zerop (length sequence)) 00:04:45 fe[nl]ix: 2nd-to last quotation there says the human genome was decoded using VB then says a difficult program will generally *have* to use a language such as lisp. Are the two similar? 00:05:37 iaindalton: imagine implementing a Lisp in VB :) 00:06:38 -!- HT9 [n=HT9@p4FD3EBA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:06:48 fe[nl]ix: I'm just learning lisp and have never learned VB, and have never implemented a language, so I can't imagine such a task 00:06:54 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@network-65-167-67-54.doubleclick.net] has quit [] 00:07:47 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-95-190.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:36 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F812.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:17 fe[nl]ix: nxhtml is a winner. thank you. 00:11:43 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@EM114-48-3-41.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 00:12:05 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 00:12:10 nshtml is the best html mode for emacs that I've found. 00:12:14 s/ns/nx 00:12:20 fusss: it has a thing named MUltipleMAjorMOdes which allows it to handle php code with embedded html and css 00:12:36 it interoperates with the js2 minormode from google pretty well. 00:12:51 -!- ginkgo [n=user@chello084113198244.17.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:06 Fade: js2 mode by yegge? it's atrocious! 00:13:38 TAB does several cycles of indentation and you have to get it just right. 00:13:46 -!- lum_sais [n=v@84.78.71.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:14:10 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:14:25 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:14:35 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p57B49C37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:15:13 fusss: if he hadn't done that, there wouldn't be a js2-mode yet 00:16:10 iaindalton: i highly doubt it. cc-mode has been specialized how often now? 00:16:52 fusss: He wrote in his blog that he would have had to write something like cc-mode, and how big is cc-mode? 00:16:57 js2-mode is what ilisp was a few years ago, if ilisp was broken: just waiting for slime! 00:17:23 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 00:19:21 search for "indentation" 00:19:26 well, i wasn't exactly happy with it, but it was better than nothing. 00:19:59 if I get embroiled in another javascript project, I'll probably use eclipse. 00:23:32 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:27:12 -!- erflynn_2 [n=evan@132.198.13.158] has quit ["leaving"] 00:29:59 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@220.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 00:39:00 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 00:40:02 minion: tell Fade about parenscript 00:40:03 Fade: please look at parenscript: Parenscript is a translator from a small Lispy language to JavaScript. http://www.cliki.net/parenscript 00:41:58 a-s [n=user@92.81.123.59] has joined #lisp 00:42:53 stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp183-63.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 00:44:00 -!- stathis_ [n=stathis@ppp183-63.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:09 -!- antoni [n=antoni@224.pool85-53-17.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [] 00:49:21 -!- iaindalton is now known as iain|away 00:52:35 uh parenscript 00:52:50 that's still around? 00:53:42 latest is 1/28/09 00:53:44 so i guess so 00:55:41 nice 00:57:45 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:57:45 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:00:07 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:04:52 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:05:12 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:39 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:09 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-93-104-125-132.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:13:23 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:34 -!- fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6D630.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["humhum"] 01:16:32 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:17:47 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.123.59] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:20:01 jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:08 plan9 [n=stian@revenant.sletner.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:49 -!- kjbrock [n=kevinbro@h-66-166-232-134.snvacaid.covad.net] has quit [] 01:21:03 can someone link me to that page about Paul Graham's uncharacteristic Lisp style? 01:22:03 minion: graham crackers? 01:22:04 graham crackers: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html 01:22:14 -!- ginkgo` [n=user@v254-049.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:22:21 there it is. thanks. 01:23:30 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:30 "The claim that = is less strict than eql is not strictly true, strictly speaking." 01:23:42 strict, indeed 01:23:43 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CA7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:24:31 is the sbcl disassembler broken? 01:24:56 this question has no correct answer 01:25:19 -!- curiousbob [n=clee@adsl-71-140-63-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 01:25:23 why do i get a data in (disassemble #'char-code) right after RET? 01:26:18 curiousbob [n=clee@adsl-71-140-63-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:30 -!- curiousbob [n=clee@adsl-71-140-63-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:26:33 i somehow assumed char-code/code-char would be simple primitives and decided to look 01:26:42 sounds like a bug. works for me on an older version 01:26:43 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:26:47 which version are you running? 01:27:18 disassemble works, but returns more data afterwards 01:27:43 1.0.19 here 01:28:02 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 01:28:12 hm, there's 1.0.25 out 01:28:55 i have that on a vps.i have been upgrading slowly; one machine at a time 01:29:06 -!- dwave [n=ask@212251217065.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 01:29:28 and let me add i'm on windows, using the kitten-of-death official disavowed binary 01:29:37 oh wow 01:30:07 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-247.phnx.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:30:55 dhess [n=user@bothawui.bothan.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:17 -!- jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 01:31:32 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-247.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:32 I guess using the kitten of death OS means you're on your own, pretty much. I expect things to have been fixed between .19 and .25, though, so best to try that first 01:31:38 it might not be a bug, more like the disassembler reading the byte stream in fixed chunks, and now i'm looking at the padding 01:31:54 curiousbob [n=clee@adsl-71-140-63-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:07 it looks like an error trapping jump table 01:34:42 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:43 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:34:52 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:58 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:42:00 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:16 fe[nl]ix: Around? 01:45:21 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:46:37 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:47:24 -!- 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[n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:41 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 03:54:05 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:54:16 EtFb [n=etfb@203.22.236.8] has joined #lisp 03:55:09 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@203.22.236.8] has quit [Client Quit] 03:55:24 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:56:18 Good morning. 03:56:41 eflynn [n=evan@65-183-142-159-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:57 how the heck do you do integer division? 03:57:37 first you'll need a pencil 03:58:19 clhs floor 03:58:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm 03:59:02 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-247.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:02 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:32 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 03:59:47 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:52 eflynn: CL has about 8 division functions 04:01:04 how do i get just the quotient and not the remainder? 04:01:22 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:02:37 eflynn: they are mutliple values 04:03:18 if you don't bind the second result it will be lost. just use the first one like you would use the result of any other function. the link beach gave you has the documentation. 04:03:54 but if you want the reminder, you would use MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND. 04:04:40 ok, i was able to use it with a let and it works fine. how would you write a function that returns more than one value tho? 04:04:52 (values 1 2) 04:05:09 ah 04:05:11 nice 04:05:19 it's neat, yeah. 04:06:00 (length (list (values)))) = 1 ;; PARADOX 04:06:47 that depends what you think (list (values)) should return 04:07:01 or for that matter, (identity (values)) 04:07:36 (versus, say, (length (multiple-value-list (values))), which does what you'd expect) 04:09:17 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:27 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:09:30 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 04:09:38 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-231-10.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 04:11:11 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:12:07 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 04:13:15 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 04:17:05 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:17 -!- iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:20:36 I've wondered if anyone having experience with both Lua and CL had anything to say about their respective approaches to multiple return values 04:21:33 I only dabbled in Lua briefly (and my memory is hazy now), and remember not being thrilled with their behavior (but that might have just been strong prejudice toward the CL way) 04:24:01 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:25:25 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 04:27:18 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:29:30 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 04:29:41 pbm_ [n=pmclain@gw.gemstone.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:45 psyllo [n=user@67-42-125-229.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:09 -!- p4r0l3 [n=par0le@unaffiliated/par0le] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:36:20 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:37:34 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 04:42:03 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:44:49 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:42 hefner: huh, looks a bit like the automatic list destructuring that ruby does 04:46:08 like python does with tuples, and Perl with lists? 04:46:17 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:46:20 ah, yes, possibly 04:47:24 so probably you can't have a 'normally this is all you want' value like you have in CL. You have to discard the cruft every time. 04:47:47 ah, actually, you can 04:48:39 so it isn't like ruby or python or perl :-) 04:49:39 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 04:50:40 -!- binghe [n=binghe@60.12.227.4] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:52:01 the odd thing that lua does is: When a function call is the last (or the only) argument to another call, all results from the first call go as arguments. 04:52:31 I think (hope) the 'first' bit is a typo, but that's the interesting behavior, yeah 04:52:37 automatic kinda-sorta multiple-value-call 04:53:10 hah. I wrote a small ~300 line program in perl after years of not using it and it was soooo beautiful! :) 04:55:07 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:26 Man I really wanted to get UCW working. This is my 3rd failure to do so in a year ;P 05:00:50 I'm trying Weblocks now. 05:12:18 maybe the stimulus package will get UCW working 05:13:28 semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 05:15:13 EvanR_ [n=evan@adsl-157-38-84.msy.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:37 -!- EvanR [n=evan@adsl-150-19-240.aby.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:18:43 hynkle [n=hynkle@96.32.179.184] has joined #lisp 05:19:36 -!- hynkle [n=hynkle@96.32.179.184] has quit [] 05:21:16 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:22:17 psyllo: what version of ucw ? 05:23:03 -!- eflynn [n=evan@65-183-142-159-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:27:49 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-240.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:28:24 aja [n=user@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:44 -!- pbm_ [n=pmclain@gw.gemstone.com] has quit [] 05:36:18 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 05:37:14 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-130-223.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:38:12 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:39:36 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-198-192.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:49:43 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-176-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:41 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:00:46 -!- avdi1 [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:40 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 06:07:01 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:08:10 stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:12:01 -!- aja [n=user@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:12:24 aja [n=user@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:43 psyllo: how is ucw failing to work for you? 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08:12:06 -!- housel [n=nnnnhous@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:12:09 -!- aundro__ [n=aundro@65.42-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:12:24 housel [n=nnnnnhou@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 08:14:28 -!- echo-area [n=user@119.42.238.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:14:56 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-130-223.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:15:21 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:15:37 fe[nl]ix: The version of ucw is the UCW boxset that I downloaded today from the ucw project page on common-lisp.net. 08:16:12 Not via darcs but via the .tar.gz link on the download.html page. 08:17:26 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-151.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:17:59 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:18:08 -!- housel [n=nnnnnhou@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:18:23 eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:41 housel [n=nnnnnnho@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 08:19:07 jlf`: Several things. I just kept attempting to fix each one as they came up. I thought I got it to build, then I tried the ucwctl which had some dependencies that I'm guess are common Linux tools (detachtty is a port in FreeBSD). 08:20:36 psyllo: that boxset is old and obsolete 08:20:57 I left off while getting ucwctl running without errors to stdout but the log showed things were still b0rked. 08:21:04 Awesome! 08:21:06 I love it. 08:21:24 lol :) That's good to know. 08:21:31 get http://common-lisp.net/projects/ucw/repos/ucw-core <- darcs repo 08:21:52 Getting it now. 08:22:29 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnho@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:23:00 housel [n=nnnnnnnh@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 08:25:31 binarin` [n=user@62.105.145.214] has joined #lisp 08:25:40 I really want to use a continuations web framework for my project that I'm excited about. 08:25:41 ASau` [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 08:25:45 madnific` [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:26:11 psyllo: complete list of deps is (:CL-MIME :CL-QPRINT :CL-BASE64 :CL-PPCRE :UCW-CORE :BORDEAUX-THREADS :TRIVIAL-GARBAGE :CL-FAD :NET-TELENT-DATE :RFC2109 :SPLIT-SEQUENCE :USOCKET :LOCAL-TIME :YACLML :ITERATE :ARNESI :SWANK) 08:26:12 I've been want to write this app for a year. I was thinking about using ACL + aserve + webactions. 08:26:43 fe[nl]ix: Thanks. 08:27:13 wrt. servers and multiple long running idling linux processes (sbcl images serving web-applications); http://code.google.com/p/compcache/ .. i wonder if that works well .. .. i mean; sbcl cores do compress quite well 08:27:23 anyone tried this thing? 08:27:26 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-151.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:27:26 -!- binarin [n=user@62.105.145.214] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:27:26 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:27:26 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.137.111] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:27:26 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:27:26 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-179-34-95.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:27:26 -!- madnificent 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[n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-092-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:19 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:45:52 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 09:47:00 FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 09:47:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 09:47:19 jlf`: I put ucw-core in my site dir, created a symlink to the asd files in my site-systems, installed all of the dependencies and then (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :ucw) it compiles awhile then fails when compiling 'request-loop-error.lisp'. 09:49:45 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:50:17 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 09:50:48 psyllo: please paste the error message 09:53:08 fel[nl]ix: Ok. I opened request-loop-error.lisp and slime-eval-region'd it and tried (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :ucw) again and it got to standard-components.lisp where it failed with a similar error. The problem is I cannot see any helpful error other than it won't compile. 09:53:30 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-127-222.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 09:53:34 "erred while invoking # on ..." 09:53:34 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:53:50 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 09:54:32 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 09:54:41 " ... # \n [Condition of type ASDF:COMPILE-FAILED]" 09:54:47 I don't know if that's helpful or not. 09:57:45 Well when I eval'd request-loop-error.lisp there were no compaints but in standard-components.lisp I do get an error: Unrecognized attribute :DOCTYPE \n [Condition of type IT.BESE.YACLML::UNRECOGNIZED-ATTRIBUTE] 09:59:04 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:59:34 I think it's in a form that starts "(<:html :doctype " in "(defmethod render ((window basic-window-features-mixin))" 09:59:37 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:01:59 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:02:38 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@100.Red-81-38-53.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:03:09 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:03:10 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:03:21 psyllo: where did you download yaclml from ? 10:03:42 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:04:52 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:05:40 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 10:05:43 fe[nl]ix: http://ignas.pov.lt/yaclml_0.5.3.tar.gz 10:07:14 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@p1174-ipbf05matsue.shimane.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:08:40 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:09:04 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:09:12 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:09:52 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:10:17 I installed yaclml_0.5.3 again and restarted Lisp and tried (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :ucw) and those errors are better. 10:10:34 better = gone. Now I have +XHTML-TRANSITIONAL-DOCTYPE+. 10:11:19 I was thinking maybe I didn't have yaclml installed so I just checked all my dependecies against the list you gave me and they're all there. 10:11:52 psyllo: did you use asdf-install ? 10:12:00 Yes. 10:12:19 Emacs + SBCL + SLIME + asdf-install. 10:12:29 better use the live repos 10:12:30 get http://common-lisp.net/project/bese/repos/yaclml/ 10:12:35 Ok 10:13:01 slackjaw [n=jolyonw@host-62-245-143-202.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:04 iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:19 I don't understand in PCL: why do you have to do (setf my-sequence (sort my-sequence #'string<)) ? 10:13:36 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:13:39 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:13:53 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:16:12 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:16:28 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:17:58 iaindalton, what is it that you don't understand? 10:18:32 why do you need to setf my-sequence to the sorted version of itself instead of just calling the inner form? 10:18:49 because the destructive effect of sort is not necessarily the same as its return value 10:18:49 fe[nl]ix: FTW! 10:19:01 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-133-18.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:19:27 psyllo: I suggest you do the same for the rest of the dependencies 10:19:40 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:46 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:20:19 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:20:22 fe[nl]ix: That is get them from the tip their respective repos always or just when they don't work. Are you saying this in the context of UCW? 10:20:59 Context of UCW = You mean just for the dependecies of UCW 10:21:02 in the context of CL in general 10:21:07 Or do you mean generally. 10:21:09 Ok. 10:21:14 That's good to know. 10:21:25 minion: tell psyllo about clbuild 10:21:27 psyllo: look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 10:21:55 xan: So the value of a variable after sort is undefined? 10:22:18 iaindalton, not sure, but it surely isn't the sorted result in many cases 10:22:32 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA649.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:35 what destructive means here is that sort can mangle your sequence, but it does not mean it will sort it 'in place' 10:23:59 CLHS says Side Effects: none. isn't destroying the input sequence a side effect, or do I misunderstand the term? 10:25:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:25:26 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:25:54 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:25:59 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:27:00 iaindalton, mmm, right, I'm not sure what 'Side effect' specifically means though. The doc mentions what we have discussed in any case. 10:27:31 but you are right in other destructive operations that fact is mentioned there 10:27:37 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:27:44 xan: I don't see any mention of what happens to sequence, except that sort and stable-sort destructively sort it. 10:28:01 "The sorting operation can be destructive in all cases. In the case of a vector argument, this is accomplished by permuting the elements in place. In the case of a list, the list is destructively reordered in the same manner as for nreverse. " 10:28:13 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:28:16 perhaps, it's not a side effect, but a primary effect 10:28:31 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:28:51 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:28:58 Oh, right; I skipped right over that line. 10:29:30 (so the effect is not undefined, it says what happens :)) 10:33:59 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:34:32 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:36:03 sinistral_ [n=mnd@gateway.cpt.intecbilling.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:12 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:36:20 -!- sinistral_ is now known as sinistral-umbra 10:36:33 loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has joined #lisp 10:38:02 -!- sinistral-umbra [n=mnd@gateway.cpt.intecbilling.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:39:59 Hi all. 10:40:28 Is there still a bug in McCLIM that makes it impossible to get keyboard input in a window unless the pointer is in the window? 10:40:46 yes 10:40:53 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:40:54 Ugh. 10:41:26 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:43:28 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:44:00 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:44:01 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:56 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:14 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:47:43 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:47:43 How easy is clg + glade? 10:47:46 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:48:10 mooglenorph: pretty easy 10:49:05 fe[nl]ix: I am trying to find the easiest quickest thing possible to get a half-way decent very simple GUI working, so I can concentrate on the backend until McCLIM gets fixed, or I have time to fix it. 10:49:51 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:51:07 s/fix it/try desperately to fix it 10:51:17 mooglenorph: I like LispWorks and even more so ACL's Common Graphics. 10:52:05 But I'm guessing you don't want to pay for either or deal with franz's royalties ;P 10:52:22 more like I can't pay. but pretty much, yeah :-) 10:52:24 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:52:33 Also, I'm pretty fond of slime. Does it work with ACL? 10:52:57 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 10:53:39 yes 10:53:43 mooglenorph: I use ELI. http://www.franz.com/emacs/ 10:54:04 ah, interesting. I am... pretty addicted to emacs. 10:54:28 So am I. ELI = 10:54:31 Using the GNU Emacs-Allegro Common Lisp Interface 10:54:37 Sorry, bad paste. 10:54:37 *mooglenorph* nods 10:55:17 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:55:21 you like cg better than capi? 10:55:45 lichtblau: Yes, but I've only used capi on FreeBSD and I've used CG on Windows XP. 10:55:59 I've liked ACL better in general. 10:56:28 Motif only on FreeBSD and Linux for LispWorks.. I don't know about CG and ACL. 10:56:41 LispWorks = CAPI 10:57:01 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:57:02 I think LispWorks is probably better for Mac development though. 10:57:44 I'd love to hear someone else's take on it. I've done pretty well with ACL+CG on Windows at work for the last 6 months. 10:59:10 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:59:42 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:00:15 Man. clg is pretty impressive. 11:00:55 Well I take that back. I've developed on FreeBSD 7.0R and built on Windows with CAPI and it worked well. I do prefer ACL + CG though. 11:02:05 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 I would love an open source alternative to CG and CAPI though. I never really got into McCLIM and have tried clg. Though I have tried GTK + Glade in C. 11:03:00 yhara [n=yhara@p1174-ipbf05matsue.shimane.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:04:22 The GUI IDEs in LispWorks and ACL made it all very easy to start producing GUIs. I'd love to see what other people are doing. 11:04:29 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-092-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:05:36 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:39 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:06:56 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:08:46 What's that new word wrapping mode in Emacs CVS? 11:09:52 joachim [n=j@193.108.254.83] has joined #lisp 11:10:09 -!- joachim [n=j@193.108.254.83] has left #lisp 11:10:40 What would people say is the easiest way to get started with relational databases in CL? 11:10:55 I just read a databases textbook, and lord knows all the implementation examples were in java. 11:10:57 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:11:00 -!- mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:11:00 -!- Cryovat [i=isis@akuma.no] has quit [lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 11:11:23 I've never used a relational db in CL ;P 11:11:27 mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has joined #lisp 11:11:27 Cryovat [i=isis@akuma.no] has joined #lisp 11:11:42 How about elephant on PostgreSQL? 11:12:20 I hear people use cl-sql a lot. 11:12:47 hmm. postgres is not supposed to be very easy to set up. is that cl-sql or CLSQL? 11:13:04 The latter. 11:13:23 great. that one is supposed to support sqlite, which is supposed to be easy to set up... 11:13:26 mooglenorph: why would postgresql be hard to set up? 11:13:59 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:14:00 Last I installed PostgreSQL on freebsd 7 I had to change the kernel config a bit. So, I guess not in my case it wouldn't have been "easy" but it's not tough. 11:14:25 H4ns: I've seen a lot of people have trouble with it in various linux help channels, and I skimmed the docs. It looked more complicated than sqlite. 11:14:28 (double negative in my last sentence) 11:14:30 postgresql isn't hard to set up; aptitude install postgresql-8.3 .. or so .. then follow the first chapter or so in the manual .. i like the Postmodern Lisp library when working with DBs 11:14:56 Yeah... We all install it at work on debian and ubuntu all the time. 11:15:15 i've always installed it using "make install" in the relevant port directory on freebsd. never troubled me at all. 11:15:22 mooglenorph: Why do you need a RDBMS? 11:15:43 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:15:53 psyllo: short answer: I'm an idiot. long answer: I'm building a file manager with arbitrary metadata management. 11:16:09 It is a terrible idea and it won't work. I suppose I'll learn something by failing horribly. 11:16:10 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:16:15 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:16:25 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:17:47 H4ns: You've never had to change kern.ipc.? 11:18:17 Oh. darn, there's a really good slackbuild for postgres... I guess now I need to choose between csql and postmodern. 11:18:39 psyllo: could be, now that you mention it. let me try it :) 11:18:41 mooglenorph: postmodern 11:20:11 Fantastic. #lisp seems postmodern-positive. it is like the magic 8-ball, but much more reliable. postmodern it is then. 11:20:48 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:20:49 mooglenorph: Maybe elephant + BDB or prevalance would be good alternatives. 11:21:04 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:21:16 Do you really need the SQL layer? 11:21:22 Yes. 11:21:23 mooglenorph: or the bknr datastore, if we iterate persistence solutions 11:21:28 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 11:21:46 mooglenorph: Why do you need SQL? 11:22:08 If you don't mind me asking. 11:22:09 Because the interface to the file manager is basically sql queries over key/value pairs assigned to my files. 11:23:09 Theoretically, this is the sort of thing that sql is good for, and it might keep me from doing anything too insane or bad to try and get this to work. 11:24:57 The thing that I am worried about it, I want to be able to assign an arbirtary number of key-value paris to files 11:25:25 Yeah and basic object persistence would probably be easier and better. 11:25:30 mooglenorph: from what you describe, you are not looking for a relational database, but for a tuple store. 11:25:50 H4ns: could you give an example of a tuple store? I do not know what that is. 11:25:51 mooglenorph: sql is great if you have multiple tables with relations, but you seem to have only bags of attributes. 11:26:07 ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has joined #lisp 11:26:31 mooglenorph: look at amazon simpledb 11:26:36 mooglenorph: or couchdb 11:26:38 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:26:50 -!- iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has left #lisp 11:27:19 -!- loxs [n=loxs@213.91.162.124] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:27:19 mooglenorph: See AllegroGraph and Franz.com they have tutorials on the subject. 11:27:33 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:27:41 mooglenorph: but first find someone to buy an acl license for you! 11:27:53 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:28:07 Well the tutorials will help regardless :) 11:28:25 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:28:53 Man. Running couchdb locally and hitting it with HTTP queries from drakma could work for this, I guess. 11:30:41 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 11:31:22 Or, there's already something that does that. Has anyone used this: http://common-lisp.net/project/clouchdb/ 11:31:32 Couchdb would be better than PostgreSQL. 11:31:44 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:31:49 Yeah, I have become convienced of that by skimming the couchdb docs. 11:32:05 I would probably have to add columns to my table, or pre-define a hierarchy of document types 11:32:11 which is exactly what I *don't* want to have to do. 11:32:22 ...this channel is amazing 11:32:49 mooglenorph: Yeah, I think so too. 11:33:12 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:33:44 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:33:50 I mean, I may have UCW working! 11:33:56 woah. 11:34:02 UCW still scares me. 11:34:50 It's always scared me but it seems like the best option I have for a continuations based web framework in CL. 11:35:04 more power to you 11:36:44 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:37:13 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 11:39:24 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:39:41 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:42:09 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:44:28 So, I just started using twitter (Hey I'm late on a lot of things). Any notable lispers I could follow? 11:44:52 not sure i'm noteable, but i'm lisphans 11:44:58 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:45:23 You're notable to me man ;) 11:45:27 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:45:59 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:46:43 H4ns: Why is every other lisp from germany? 11:46:48 Or is that just my perception. 11:46:51 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:46:52 I'm not 11:47:06 Yeah, I'm a dumb American. 11:47:14 Xof: Where you from? 11:47:27 psyllo: don't know. 11:47:28 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:48:39 I really want to go to the ILC but my work is all Ruby, Pything, C++ and some D. I don't think they'll spring for it. 11:49:00 I'm do have a few small CL projects but I don't think it's excuse enough. 11:49:22 What I'm saying is I want them to pay for it ;) 11:49:43 lol, I said Pything. 11:51:40 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:51:44 chrisdone [n=user@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 11:51:50 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:52:12 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:52:58 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:53:11 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:54:09 H4ns: Interesting article on Clojure. I have been looking at it too. A guy at work did a hello world on his G1 phone in Clojure. 11:54:39 psyllo: nice! i've not looked at clojure in a while, though, as i did not find a new project to use it with. 11:55:00 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:55:32 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 11:58:03 H4ns: Your "The bad" part of the article has exactly what I though in it. Except, in addition, I don't like the square brackets either. 11:58:32 psyllo: the overuse of square brackets started after i wrote that blog entry :) 11:59:35 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:59:52 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:00:02 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:00:58 -!- yhara [n=yhara@p1174-ipbf05matsue.shimane.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:02:16 _semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 12:02:56 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:12 -!- semka_ [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:05:35 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F5D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:13 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:13 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:08:30 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:10:00 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-169-130.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:12:39 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:13:05 Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has joined #lisp 12:13:12 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:13:15 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM114-51-169-130.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has left #lisp 12:15:47 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:18:13 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:18:31 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:18:44 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:22:45 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:51 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:25:08 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:25:25 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 12:25:45 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:29:35 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:30:00 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:30:17 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:30:33 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:33:08 I feel stupid for asking this, but how the hell do you convert a single char to a number 12:33:16 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:33:22 read 12:33:26 read takes a stream 12:33:33 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:33:36 char-code 12:33:46 char code gives you the ascii code 12:33:53 49 != 1 12:33:55 clhs digit-char-p 12:33:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_digi_1.htm 12:34:06 bingo! 12:34:07 argh 12:34:12 why is it named -p 12:34:20 because this is CL 12:34:26 and CL has history 12:34:30 i skimmed over it thinking it was a true/false function 12:36:17 I never used digit-char-p. I've just used read-from-string. 12:37:29 Cool, I guess I am stupid too then. 12:37:48 a string and a character isn't the same thing :) 12:38:12 I didn't mean to imply that they were. 12:38:25 clhs read-from-string 12:38:25 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_fro.htm 12:38:26 I just mean I've never done it. 12:40:49 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:41:21 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:42:46 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:42:46 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:43:24 Wow, I would never have found those functions (graphic-char-p, alpha-char-p, digit-char-p) because I woulda just ignored them for the -p ending, lol. 12:45:09 yeah that's what just happened to me 12:45:21 thankfully there are irc gurus ready to assist 12:45:34 -!- _semka [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:46:14 Totally 12:46:20 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:46:37 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:46:41 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 12:51:53 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:52:25 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:53:34 project euler oneliners: how can you shorten this: 12:53:34 (loop for x across (format nil "~D" (expt 2 1000)) sum (digit-char-p x)) 12:53:42 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:06 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:54:52 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-239.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:55:11 (reduce #'+ (map 'list #'digit-char-p (format nil "~D" (expt 2 1000)))) 12:55:16 one character shorter! 12:55:29 you could lose the #\#s for two more characters saved 12:55:33 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:08 hehehe 12:56:29 sulo [n=sulo@p57B49BDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:39 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 12:56:57 (loop for x being the digits of (expt 2 1000) sum x) 12:57:09 requires a little bit of support code 12:57:16 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:57:48 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:57:55 hm how does the 'the digits of' part work then 12:58:04 it's certainly more elegant 12:58:55 loop magic. 12:58:56 aah across a hash table 12:59:06 hm no not hash table 12:59:15 I thought loop wasn't extendible like that :) 12:59:24 it's not 12:59:25 it's not. 13:00:03 it's hardwired inside. (mapcar #'char-as-number (princ-to-string n)) or something 13:00:45 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:01:01 "the digits of" is not hardwired in any loop implementation 13:01:17 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:01:30 hm, it isn't 13:01:45 My bad! 13:01:48 yeah that's what confuses me, how can you hack it in then :) 13:02:05 a lib replacing loop probably 13:02:22 while ansi loop isn't extensible, the loop of your implementation might be 13:02:26 A bit of hacking the SBCL source code, I'm guessing. :-) 13:03:01 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-133-18.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:03:17 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 13:07:18 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:50 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit ["Valete!"] 13:09:10 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:09:27 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:10:58 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:43 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:13:55 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:15:06 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.42.45] has joined #lisp 13:15:19 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:46 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:18:02 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:18:17 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:18:34 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:19:25 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:19:30 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:50 Keisial [n=Keisial@unaffiliated/keisial] has joined #lisp 13:22:43 how can I extract the items < N from a sorted list? 13:23:13 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:23:22 (subseq) looks promising, but it needs the actual number of items, and (find) needs an item... :S 13:23:50 well, POSITION-IF if you want to use SUBSEQ 13:23:53 but I'd write (loop for i in list while (< i n) collect i) 13:24:00 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:24:22 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 13:24:34 ooh, thanks! :)) 13:25:59 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483EB3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:06 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:30:08 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30:39 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:34:30 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:34:45 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:08 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:36:25 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:36:32 Grilinctus [n=Aankhen@122.162.158.80] has joined #lisp 13:37:37 -!- Bribek [n=Bribek@lenio-pat.lenio.dk] has quit [] 13:37:41 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.155.56] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:38:48 Can someone recommend a calendar app? 13:39:20 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:39:57 Something lisp-y and KISS? 13:40:07 I've been looking for ages and they all seem horrible. 13:40:59 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:41:21 ncal? 13:41:32 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:42:45 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:44:35 Ah, not quite so bare... heh. Something that lets me manage my class schedual. 13:44:50 erm, google calendar maybe? 13:45:07 ah, no, not lispy enough! 13:45:12 I' 13:45:21 've been trying to like it for the past couple hours. 13:45:58 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:08 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:46:08 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:23 Yay. UCW is working. I'm digging clbuild. 13:47:45 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:47:51 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [Success] 13:47:58 clbuild is fantastic 13:48:08 Maybe I'm being crazy. Maybe google calendar is totally fine. 13:48:17 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:48:17 wfm. 13:48:18 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:48:40 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:48:50 wfm? 13:49:27 minion: what does WFM stand for? 13:49:27 Wasteness Fairlike Misfortune 13:49:47 or, Works For Me 13:49:57 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:28 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:50:46 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:52:42 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 13:52:49 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:52:49 -!- rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:55:29 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:55:46 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:55:59 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1E4FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:01 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C494.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:26 -!- brandelune_ [n=suzume@pl191.nas932.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 13:57:17 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:59:43 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:51 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:59:51 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:00:22 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:00:54 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:03:06 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.162.238.68] has joined #lisp 14:03:13 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:23 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:04:55 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:06:13 kiuma [n=kiuma@83.103.127.195] has joined #lisp 14:06:32 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:43 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:08:31 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:08:49 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:11:11 willb [n=wibenton@66.187.234.199] has joined #lisp 14:11:59 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:26 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:14:35 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:15:08 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:17:34 -!- FZ [n=user@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:18:54 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:19:02 -!- peddie [n=peddie@TEP-ONE-TWENTY-FOUR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:19:27 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:19:58 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:20:04 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:22:25 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:22:42 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:23:55 this one works (no error and does as it supposed to) - but it does not feel good: (defmethod includes-p ((object polyfrustum) (point simple-array 'single-float (3))) (....) - is it ok to do so though? or is there a much more elegant way to do so? 14:24:55 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.162.238.68] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:25:41 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 14:25:44 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:26:16 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 14:29:32 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:29:57 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:30:28 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:30:35 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:31:12 trebor_dki: that form is nonsense 14:32:07 Xof: you mean, it does not specify a vector of singloe-float of lenght 3? 14:32:24 (for point) 14:32:54 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:33:13 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:35:10 I mean, it's illegal syntax and even if it weren't it wouldn't mean what you thought it meant 14:35:46 sbcl should complain about it, when i compile it? 14:36:59 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:07 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:38:24 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:38:28 antoni [n=antoni@232.pool85-53-21.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:38:50 it should, but unfortunately it doesn't 14:39:05 it does tell you that it hasn't done what you wanted it to, though 14:40:26 redefining INCLUDES-P (# #) 14:40:57 yes. See that "BUILT-IN-CLASS SIMPLE-ARRAY"? 14:40:59 so it took the simple-array but not the single-float (3) part 14:41:36 what does the "built-in-class" mean? 14:42:36 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:43:43 oh, i see (defmethod includes-p ((object polyfrustum) (point simple-array blabla)) (...) compiles the same way (no errors, equal compiler-output). 14:44:20 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:44:38 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:47:47 Eleanore [n=a@c213-100-35-225.swipnet.se] has joined #lisp 14:50:39 cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:39 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:52:11 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:52:20 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:52:43 dkcl [n=danderse@91.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:54:41 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 14:55:56 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:55:58 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:23 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:28 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:57:13 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:10 how can i create a parameter-specializer-name for a vector of single-float of length 3? in the spec, i read that it can either be a symbol, a class or (eql form). what chapter/url/... do i have to read to get a glue how to do it? 14:59:20 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:59:36 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:59:39 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:48 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:00:37 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 15:00:50 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:12 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:03:43 you can't, because (array single-float (*)) is a type, but not a class 15:03:50 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:03:52 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["snapshot upgrade"] 15:04:15 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 15:04:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:05:50 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:51 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 15:07:05 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:07:37 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 15:08:03 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 15:10:26 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:10:43 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:03 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:11:05 -!- housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:11:37 housel [n=nnnnnnnn@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 15:13:19 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:13:29 <_death> lichtblau: do you plan on having atdoc consider method documentation? 15:13:44 plage [n=user@salle204.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 15:13:48 Good afternoon. 15:15:00 hello plage 15:16:25 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 15:16:55 hugopt [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 15:16:57 This lab class is boring because the students are working quietly and don't seem to need any help. 15:17:03 :) 15:17:15 tell them to join #lisp, then! 15:17:32 -!- hugopt [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has left #lisp 15:17:57 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:57 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:18:04 tic: don't think so. they are checking out cl-ppcre right now. 15:18:08 nyef [n=nyef@pool-64-223-182-13.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:13 tic: plus, you saw what happened last time. 15:18:23 G'morning all. 15:18:24 hello nyef 15:18:36 plage, I did not! What happened? 15:19:09 tic: do a grep -i bordeaux 09.02.* in the logs, and you will find out :( 15:20:14 _death: I'd like that, yes. For me it hasn't been a priority, but the way AMOP lists methods is quite attractive, I think, so it would be nice to support that. 15:20:36 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:43 (If I had time to hack on atdoc currently, I'd rather finish the parse-docstrings refactoring first though.) 15:20:47 tic: essentially, they didn't behave. 15:20:51 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:54 <_death> lichtblau: well, as it is atm is a little problematic for accessors 15:22:56 In my personal naming style, I don't use the same accessor name for entirely unrelated classes, so I've been happy documenting the entire generic function for the accessor once, not the individual methods. But I can see that others have a different style, yeah. 15:24:17 <_death> I see 15:25:46 <_death> also, a hint that the function is a generic function would be nice 15:27:41 <_death> and, what about setf functions, setf expanders, etc. 15:27:42 poet [n=chatzill@64.198.227.140] has joined #lisp 15:28:48 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go home"] 15:29:36 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.170] has joined #lisp 15:29:38 splittist [n=splittis@162-102.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:29:40 morning 15:29:47 hello splittist 15:30:13 How is room 204 treating you? 15:31:16 splittist: It is boring. The students are working quietly and don't need me. 15:31:42 ... but in 20 minutes, my working week will be over. 15:32:35 ... 18 now :) 15:33:03 Heh. 15:33:18 I'm finding it hard to get enthused about ILC09, I'm afraid. 15:34:09 Me too, so I am not going. 15:34:29 splittist: nothing interesting ? 15:34:36 Actually, I never had time to think about it, because it would happen during a very busy time here. when is it again? 15:34:41 that's the spirit 15:35:24 plage, that's unfortunate. :/ 15:35:28 plage: March 22-25 15:35:39 splittist, why is it hard to get enthused about ILC09? 15:35:45 fe[nl]ix: not enough that seems enough interesting. I know it's silly to measure something like that by the scheduled papers, when 15 minutes touching the hem of GLS's garment might make everything worth while, but... 15:35:49 (then, I'd be happy to go to any meeting.) 15:36:14 fe[nl]ix: thanks. Yeah, that would have been very hard for me. 15:36:20 ...perhaps my expectations were too elevated. 50 years! MIT! Less JonL! 15:36:36 haha 15:39:55 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:56 -!- free_tinker [n=willijar@eas-nw709pc01.aston.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:44:09 jop [n=jop@222.165.105.99] has joined #lisp 15:44:12 demmeln [i=demmeln@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:45:26 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:45:42 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@host146-90-static.40-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:45:46 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 15:45:49 Is SBCL still taking SBCL_HOME from the --core argument when --core is given explicitly? 15:46:56 I have SBCL_HOME=$HOME/local/..., and if I give --core foo.core, it will start with foo.core. (can't parse your question) 15:47:10 -!- Grilinctus is now known as Aankhen`` 15:47:14 -!- ntoll [n=ntoll@87.236.135.147] has quit [] 15:48:06 tic: sorry, I meant: Suppose I don't have SBCL_HOME set, and I run SBCL like this: sbcl --core /bla/whatever/hmm.core, where will SBCL search for libraries when (require 'toto) is executed? 15:48:32 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody booted me"] 15:49:03 tic: As I recall, it used to be the case, that it still looked in /usr/local/lib/sbcl/ but then at some point it changed. I was wondering what it is in the latest version. 15:50:04 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:06 But I'll look later in the logs (or in the documentation) for the answer, because I am off. 15:50:13 -!- plage [n=user@salle204.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has left #lisp 15:50:57 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:05 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:26 prxq [n=mommer@BAE77f0.bae.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:27 -!- poet [n=chatzill@64.198.227.140] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009020911]"] 15:51:33 Hi 15:52:27 Suppose I have a large C++ code, and need to use it from CL (sbcl). Is there a good way to do that? 15:53:08 you can use the foreign function interface 15:53:21 prxq: Typically, you write some C wrappers, and then use those via the FFI. 15:53:46 prxq: yeah, extern "C" { ... } is your friend 15:53:48 And hope that you don't need to start playing with stack unwinds. 15:53:56 and the FFI stays stable? ISTR some oddball stack ... right :-) 15:54:02 swig can generate C bindings for C++ and then generate CFFI bindings for those 15:54:06 in principle, anyway 15:54:08 it sort of works 15:54:14 ok 15:54:22 Oh, and if you're on Win32, the stack unwinds should work. 15:54:31 wow 15:54:59 of course, nothing else will :) 15:55:02 (only joking) 15:55:21 Is there still a memory limit for the foreign code? 15:55:57 rsynnott: At least we know how to fix most of the known problems on win32. 15:56:30 ampleyfly [n=ampleyfl@mustang.lysator.liu.se] has joined #lisp 15:57:20 Ok, well, thanks. THat's good news. I vaguely remember mayor problems. But if extern "C" {...} works without problems, then there is at least a way of going about it. 15:57:27 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:57:28 thanks for the info! 15:58:19 prxq: And hey, if you want to bind the full C++ interface directly, you'd have a project on your hands but you'd also be advancing the cause of SBCL / C++ interoperation. 15:58:24 thehcdreamer_ [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 15:59:41 nyef: does any language's FFI manage C++ particularly nicely? 15:59:48 nyef: I am aware of that :-) unfortunately I'm short on resources (time) and knowledge. I'd have to learn the gory details of C++, and IIRC one of the main critiques on it was that it did not do things consistently. 15:59:57 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:59:58 wow. steorn is still at it. 16:00:03 (cf C++ FQA <- no typo) 16:00:05 (beyond the python approach where you write something in C/C++ to talk to python, rather than the other way round) 16:00:08 Fade: oh, yes 16:00:13 they're just down the road 16:00:20 *rsynnott* feels ashamed for my country 16:00:30 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:00:45 do they have any products that work? ;) 16:00:53 no, of course not 16:00:55 in any case, thanks for the info and a happy weekend for all! 16:01:00 -!- prxq [n=mommer@BAE77f0.bae.pppool.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:01:03 their product is physically impossible 16:01:15 (they started off life as a marketting and security company, oddly) 16:01:16 how the hell can they afford dublin commercial property, then? 16:01:18 lol 16:01:20 Fade: investment 16:01:27 ack 16:01:33 lots of stupid people have invested in them 16:01:42 and hedge funds and so on 16:01:49 they are currently valued at 200 million 16:01:55 jesus. 16:02:01 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:02:31 i can't believe their 'over unity' device is a permanent magnet motor. 16:02:50 lum_sais [n=v@84.78.71.246] has joined #lisp 16:02:53 bit boring of them; they could at least have had something original 16:03:16 I had really thought they just dissappeaered after the snafu in their london 'demonstration' 16:03:30 so did I, but they recently re-emerged 16:03:32 the C++ FQA is an excellent way to learn C++ 16:04:01 (complete with announcement that they'll be making lab instruments to help people look at their over-unity device...) 16:04:01 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:04:12 lol! 16:04:24 "Here, use our device to measure our device!" 16:04:34 they have also promised to install a water pump powered by their magic box in a village in Kenya 16:04:41 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:04:53 which is a bit much, quite frankly; it's one thing conning hedge funds and quite another making impossible aid promises 16:05:01 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@host146-90-static.40-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:05:14 well, either they really believe they have overunity in a permanent magnet motor, or they're quite the mean spiried charlattans. 16:05:45 svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has joined #lisp 16:06:14 they may actually believe it; none of them have any scientific training and it is very common for 'over-unity' devices to work because they produce high-frequency AC which confuses cheap instruments 16:07:24 if they actually had something, they'd put it in a lexan box in the foyer at trinity. 16:07:49 ah well 16:09:08 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-220.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:10:05 -!- jop [n=jop@222.165.105.99] has quit [] 16:10:14 NatLWalker [n=Nate@canopy-pool5-148.kaplantel.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:23 Hi all 16:13:22 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F5D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 16:17:37 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:56 dthomp [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:27 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087F5D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:38 -!- splittist [n=splittis@162-102.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:25:15 -!- alinpopa [n=alinpopa@86.122.9.2] has left #lisp 16:26:02 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:26:21 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:28:29 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:29:08 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:29:46 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:30:13 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:31:53 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:33:47 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-93-104-33-213.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:54 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-132-239.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:34:22 -!- antoni [n=antoni@232.pool85-53-21.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [] 16:36:30 lboard [n=lboard@117.193.200.129] has joined #lisp 16:36:32 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 16:36:53 hi i got some problem setting up slime can anyone help me 16:37:11 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 16:37:16 Only if you describe your problem precisely. 16:37:17 only if you tell what problem is 16:37:57 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:38:52 after entering M-x slime .... slime able to run the repl but emacs is still in *inferior-lisp* mode 16:39:03 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:12 which should take me to *slime-repl* mode 16:39:19 lboard: the slime authors thought it was too accessible, so now the repl is optional 16:39:19 add (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) to .emacs 16:39:37 heheh 16:39:38 Does anyone know a good Lisp compiler that can compile to executables? 16:39:44 sbcl 16:39:51 Thanks 16:39:57 SBCL, but the executables aren't small. 16:40:03 O.o 16:40:18 *dlowe* feels the executable hate coming on 16:40:33 -!- demmeln [i=demmeln@atradig113.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:40:34 can it interface with C/C++ compiled with Visual C++? 16:40:42 stssats: oof, saved my day, thanks 16:40:50 C, yes. C++ is a bit harder. 16:41:23 And if you're going to be using Win32, you should probably be aware that there are some known issues involving a fixed memory map. 16:41:33 lboard: you can also use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) for more features 16:41:54 I'm starting a pet project I'll see I have a Solaris workstation maybe can use that. 16:42:16 -!- madnific` [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:42:18 previously i was using just (slime-setup), when did they changed all?? 16:42:19 NatLWalker: you might also want to look at ECL 16:42:48 Googling :P 16:43:18 A different programming language? 16:43:28 lboard: in the late 2008 16:43:28 it's lisp that compiles through to C 16:43:34 OH 16:43:35 from C -> exec 16:43:40 ok, what's new in slime-fancy 16:43:51 Ok wikipedia ganked me :p 16:44:14 lboard: what was removed from the core 16:44:23 NatLWalker: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ 16:45:13 stassats: i cant get u 16:45:28 reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:45:33 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:45:49 it's a little bit like haskell in the delivery sense. 16:45:50 lboard: well, some time ago, all features was in slime.el, then they migrated in contribs 16:45:55 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:10 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 16:46:17 knobo [n=user@148.122.202.247] has joined #lisp 16:46:27 although there's only limited support for unicode, so bear that in mind if it's important to you. 16:46:53 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E4645E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:08 unicode support has gotten much better in cvs recently 16:47:26 *Fade* hasn't used ecl in a few months 16:47:43 stassats: ok thanks again 16:47:58 That'll work, thanks 16:48:15 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@network-65-167-67-54.doubleclick.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:14 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-181-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:55:47 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-212-116-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:56:01 -!- NatLWalker [n=Nate@canopy-pool5-148.kaplantel.net] has left #lisp 16:56:14 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:57:59 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:58:17 *hefner* wonders how much unicode support inflates the size of ECL 16:59:21 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:03:42 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:01 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A671.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:25 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:09:38 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:27 yakman_ [n=arch@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:13:38 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-93-73.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 17:13:46 -!- yakman_ [n=arch@94-194-134-155.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has left 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["Leaving."] 17:42:54 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 17:44:39 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 17:44:47 alinpopa [n=alinpopa@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:44:55 -!- dthomp [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:45:46 -!- alinpopa [n=alinpopa@89.137.98.94] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:01 alinpopa [n=alinpopa@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:46:44 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:47:17 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 17:48:15 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:48:21 -!- thehcdreamer_ [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 17:48:57 hmm, strange, when i do operations on bignums, TIME shows completely wrong time 17:49:42 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:51:23 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 17:52:13 rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 17:52:22 durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has joined #lisp 17:54:02 it's me wrong, it doesn't include compile-time 17:54:46 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["k"] 17:55:38 -!- antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:58:12 do any of you guys use GCL for real work? i know maxima defaulted to GCL as recently as six months ago.. 17:58:52 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:59:01 six months? i thought gcl was forked by maxima devolper more than ten years ago 18:00:00 -!- Fulax is now known as Fulax|afk 18:00:40 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:49 -!- lum_sais [n=v@84.78.71.246] has quit ["cerrando"] 18:00:52 i just recall reading in the build instructions that it depended on GCL. 18:01:01 maxima itself I merely use. 18:02:21 i built maxima with SBCL and CCL 18:02:35 with no GCL whatsoever 18:02:43 gonzojive [n=red@171.66.81.214] has joined #lisp 18:02:51 Fade: GCL is not standard compliant 18:02:58 I'm probably mistaken. Mostly I'm interested in whether anybody uses GCL. 18:03:10 hardly maintained, and pretty much not used except for maxima 18:03:21 *nod* 18:04:06 If you want a C-based implementation, better take ECL 18:04:43 I've used ECL in that role, and it was okay. I was actually just perusing the ECL wiki and looking at the history article. 18:05:08 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 18:05:12 so ecl and gcl come from common roots, but I couldn't think of the last time I saw anybody ask a question about gcl. 18:06:42 I think they all derive from kcl at one point or another 18:06:56 yeah 18:07:23 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 18:11:44 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@nmd.sbx07476.centeva.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:46 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:13:58 dthomp [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 18:14:19 dwave [n=ask@212251217065.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:14:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89-97-21-219.ip15.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 18:15:40 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 18:19:53 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:22:26 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-89.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:23:55 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-092-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:00 antifuchs [n=asf@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:18 -!- dthomp [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:28:35 daniel__ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 18:29:55 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-75-19-87-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:30:21 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 18:30:48 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:43 -!- svaksha [n=svaksha@perrier.eu.org] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:33:05 -!- drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:33:28 Sbidicuda [n=antani@host59-228-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:33:45 -!- the-ruediger is now known as ruediger 18:35:17 vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has joined #lisp 18:37:45 -!- addled [n=addled@mail.andrewlawson.org] has left #lisp 18:38:32 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:43:55 I get a 404 when asdf-installing clnuplot, is this normal ? 18:44:33 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:44:59 404 is pretty normal error code when something is not found 18:45:36 stassats: is it normal that it isn't found ? 18:46:12 auclairb, what wasn't found? 18:46:45 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:00 Oh, hell. The x86 disassembler really is broken. :-/ 18:47:14 ayrnieu: http://common-lisp.net/project/clnuplot/clnuplot_latest.tar.gz 18:47:26 auclairb: try now 18:47:45 At least it should just be scut-work to fix, as I think I did the tricky bits ages ago. 18:48:05 stassats: works 18:48:30 stassats: are you a professionnal magician ? 18:48:46 auclairb: nope, i just edited cliki page 18:49:03 -!- sulo [n=sulo@p57B49BDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:53:26 -!- Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.116.42.45] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:53:33 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.112.66.124] has joined #lisp 18:55:18 stassats: are you Gary King ? 18:55:24 -!- Sbidicuda [n=antani@host59-228-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:55:32 auclairb: No, gwking is. 18:55:34 auclairb: no 18:55:46 i am 'An N Other' 18:57:05 auclairb: cliki includes links to tarballs for asdf-install, i just corrected that link 18:57:12 -!- Fulax|afk is now known as Fulax 18:57:45 stassats: Yes I saw the modif, however I am wondering how you got the right name of the file 18:58:13 well, from http://common-lisp.net/project/clnuplot/ 19:00:15 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-226-84.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:01:55 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-3578c276b427d644] has joined #lisp 19:04:16 -!- durka42 [n=durka@130.58.199.81] has quit [] 19:09:01 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:09:20 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:09:36 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@network-65-167-67-54.doubleclick.net] has quit [] 19:10:32 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:12:28 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-127-222.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:20 clhs ~T 19:13:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cfa.htm 19:14:14 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@mail.viantgroup.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:56 i wonder, why sbcl doesn't use Karatsuba algorithm for multiplication 19:15:39 stassats: write it. 19:15:48 pkhuong: CMUCL has it 19:16:32 Might also be interesting to find the point at which it pays off. 19:16:48 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:12 in cmucl there is two versions, and *min-karatsuba-bits* 19:17:50 lum_sais [n=v@84.78.71.246] has joined #lisp 19:18:03 Good evening. 19:18:33 Me, I wonder why CMUCL and SBCL keeps being competitors. 19:19:11 hmm, though http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2004-08-22.html 19:20:01 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E2BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:14 while i don't see it in the code and by speed of multiplication 19:20:18 I guess because familiar with one are not familiar with the other at this point of divergence 19:20:25 stassats: 1500 bits. That's pretty much useless. 19:20:35 *nyef* is wading through a maze of instructions with names like SB-VM:|CACHED-FUN--PUSH[(REG-NO-WIDTH ((OP 10)))]-REG-NO-WIDTH-PRINTER| wondering where on earth the actual code that does the printing is. 19:20:51 Sbidicuda [n=antani@host59-228-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:20:52 stassats: Try reading the full post. 19:21:03 -!- shurain [n=shurain@147.46.242.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:21:42 shurain [n=shurain@147.46.242.198] has joined #lisp 19:22:06 pkhuong: ok, i see now 19:22:31 CMUCL currently has (defparameter *min-karatsuba-bits* 512) 19:25:28 clhs ~V 19:25:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm 19:25:32 so is cmucl faster than sbcl in that benchmark? 19:25:32 nevertheless, gmp is faster 19:25:37 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:25:38 Oh, right. 19:26:36 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-93-73.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:29:04 and clisp is faster than cmucl, and ecl is faster than clisp 19:29:09 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 gmp is written in C, uses assembly when beneficial, uses a sign-magnitude representation, and has Toom and FFT multiplication in addition to Karatsuba 19:30:52 -!- chrisdone [n=user@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:31:56 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:15 i wonder, is there many uses of such big bignums for which FFT is faster 19:33:12 I read somewhere that the vast majority of bignums are two words long 19:33:13 the gmp docs say the threshold for FFT is between 3000 and 10000 bigits 19:33:19 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:34:00 and what is used after 10000? 19:34:02 Now, the fact that the majority is like that doesn't mean it's uninteresting to consider the remaining cases. 19:34:12 the lower threshold 19:34:39 beach: Is that two words with or without the header? 19:34:41 -!- antoinevg [n=antoine@alonzo.artifactual.org.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:04 nyef: I can't remember. 19:35:31 I remember reading the same thing: it's two bigits long, i.e., it excludes the header. 19:36:20 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:36:55 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483EB3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:36:59 -!- l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-132-93-183.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:33 nyef pasted "x86 disassembler lossage" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75429 19:38:58 Clearly, the instruction definitions are set up such that it should work, so what's causing the brain-damage? 19:39:00 josemanuel [n=josemanu@86.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:39:59 antoinevg [n=antoine@alonzo.artifactual.org.za] has joined #lisp 19:40:34 perhaps, huge bignums are useful in cryptography 19:40:59 ... It's not passing a stream to map-segment-instructions... 19:41:13 indeed. Most people don't need anything that large, but if you need them, you need them bad 19:41:25 -!- gonzojive [n=red@171.66.81.214] has quit [] 19:41:26 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:42:01 nyef: register size prefix 19:42:17 fusss: Is present in both cases. 19:42:54 nyef annotated #75429 with "More weirdness" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75429#1 19:43:05 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:43:44 <_3b> nyef: which is correct? 19:43:55 _3b: PUSH AX. 19:44:18 PUSH EAX would just be #x50, not #x66 #x50. 19:45:22 nyef: there is a FLAGS bit which is set when protected mode is entered, this flag bit control the meaning of the register size prefix. it really should be set by default by either the OS or sbcl, it doesn't make sense to have 16-bit registers in there anyway 19:46:00 There are cases when it is useful. 19:47:24 Okay, I think I see how this is breaking. 19:47:40 -!- shurain [n=shurain@147.46.242.198] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:48:17 shurain [n=shurain@147.46.242.198] has joined #lisp 19:49:46 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@mail.viantgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:55 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:51:07 lispm [n=joswig@e177149077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:52:22 kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:56 -!- lboard [n=lboard@117.193.200.129] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 19:59:44 -!- willb [n=wibenton@66.187.234.199] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:00:28 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-127-222.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:01:27 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:01 gio123 [n=gio123@gprs1.gprs.ge] has joined #lisp 20:03:07 any german speakers? 20:03:30 ja 20:03:31 hier 20:06:54 benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486EED9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:34 -!- psyllo [n=user@67-42-125-229.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:15:51 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:16:44 eevar_ [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:32 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@86.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 20:18:40 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-67.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:19:14 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:43 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-247.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 gio1239 [n=gio123@gprs1.gprs.ge] has joined #lisp 20:24:26 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:33 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:26:02 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:26 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:30:20 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:29 #lisp.de 20:30:54 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:49 -!- eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:34:04 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0E2BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:12 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0E2BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:34:15 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 20:36:31 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:40:56 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:41:30 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.158.80] has quit ["There are two kinds of people in this world: those who spout Chuck Norrisisms, and those who have lives"] 20:42:13 iaindalton [n=user@host-72-174-169-236.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:49 Am I right in thinking push then nreverse does the same thing as nconc? 20:45:21 -!- gio123 [n=gio123@gprs1.gprs.ge] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:46:05 sometimes 20:46:07 josemanuel [n=josemanu@144.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:46:09 For the general case? No. 20:46:28 I think the biggest difference is that push operates on a place. 20:47:18 OK 20:47:47 foo is the list (1 2 3) 20:48:04 push 0 foo -> 0 1 2 3 20:48:14 reverse it (3 2 1 0) 20:48:32 nconc does what? 20:48:55 destructively appends 20:48:55 it appends lists 20:49:17 nconc (0) (1 2 3) is (0 1 2 3) 20:49:20 fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-55-67.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:42 The example in PCL is 20:49:42 (defun upto (max) 20:49:42 (let ((result nil)) 20:49:42 (dotimes (i max) 20:49:43 (nconc (list 0) (list 1 2 3)) 20:49:45 (push i result)) 20:49:45 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 20:49:48 (nreverse result))) 20:49:53 20:50:16 right 20:51:04 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5842.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:04 you could NCONC to the end of a list 20:51:06 BUT 20:51:19 then one would traverse the list every time 20:51:35 Isn't nreverse doing that? 20:51:41 ONCE 20:51:51 Oh I see 20:51:56 It's outside the loop 20:52:01 right! 20:52:13 durrr 20:52:36 you should see that by the indentation 20:52:44 Yes I should 20:52:52 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:53:16 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:53:48 the other possible way to do the above is to 20:53:48 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:57 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.170] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 20:54:06 count DOWN and push the number, without reversing 20:55:04 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-61.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:00:40 -!- Sbidicuda [n=antani@host59-228-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:04:54 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5842.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07:42 eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:24 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 21:09:21 weekend 21:09:35 friday evening 21:09:57 ready for the recreational video of the week? 21:10:04 saturday night 21:10:26 A Lisp Machine with a tablet based user interface 21:10:33 http://www.open-video.org/details.php?videoid=8076 21:11:57 that's a plasma display connected to a Symbolics, early 90s 21:12:18 it says '1988' 21:12:30 could be 21:12:44 so (very) early 90s. 21:12:50 yep ;-) 21:13:00 early 90s ;-) 21:14:24 This is for example the gesture editor used by them: 21:14:25 http://lispm.dyndns.org/symbolics-ui-examples/Bild-93.png 21:14:48 -!- gio1239 [n=gio123@gprs1.gprs.ge] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:15:14 think McCLIM on a tablet PC 21:15:25 iaindalton: (defun upto (max) (do ((n max (1- n)) (list nil (cons n list))) ((< n 0) list))) -- I erred by dismissing DO; it's a great way to express what would be a recursive function with an -aux in another language. 21:15:54 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@nmd.sbx07476.centeva.wayport.net] has quit [] 21:16:00 What's an -aux? 21:16:36 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:16:37 auxiliary function 21:16:50 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 21:17:09 I think the only CL function less readable than "loop" is "do". :) 21:17:20 upto(N) -> upto(0, N, []). % upto/3 does the recursion. 21:17:27 foom: what about format? 21:17:33 when you see DO as a way to do recursion, I think it's more readable. 21:17:46 foom: I tend to avoid DO as much as possible 21:17:51 hm, format might go between the two. :) 21:18:45 *tcr* loathed DO in the past, after having written three, or four himself he considers it "okayish" 21:18:56 since i mastered loop, i haven't a single thought about using DO 21:19:21 It has advantages 21:19:41 (which are mostly shortcommings in LOOP, tbh) 21:20:34 Wow, that video has an early clippy 21:20:58 Which autocorrects the sketcher then tells them what it's done 21:22:21 iaindalton: MS Bob connection .. 21:22:29 Haha 21:22:37 They call it a `non-intrusive angel' 21:23:12 MS Bob was also a Lisp app... 21:23:40 so Lisp IS evil 21:23:46 fortunately Lisp was not advertized with it 21:24:00 Bob was written in Allegro CL 21:24:12 -!- eevar_ [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:26:26 hmmm, i don't see that in franz.com/success-stories.clp ;-) 21:26:26 *sykopomp* is still terrified of DO. 21:26:43 fusss: there must be a reason ;-) 21:26:51 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:13 lispm: interestingly, the most powerful spyware app for windows was also a lisp app 21:27:27 a bloody rootkit at that 21:27:27 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:27 something with Scheme, right? 21:27:30 milanj [n=milan@93.87.152.7] has joined #lisp 21:27:32 yeah, scheme 21:27:32 yeah 21:27:41 see, it makes sense that a scheme program would be evil. 21:27:42 Scheme is bad ;-) 21:27:51 fusss: Was it actually the most powerful spyware app? I don't know if that's necessarily true. 21:28:03 The article really just talked about it being fairly widespread, or maybe I forgot something. 21:28:16 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:25 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:28:45 sykopomp: it removed other spywares and was self-updating. darwinism takes care of the rest .. 21:29:19 Was it more powerful than this? http://philosecurity.org/2009/01/12/interview-with-an-adware-author 21:29:41 Wait, it was that 21:30:18 i secretly root for botnot authors/controllers 21:30:45 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["away!"] 21:30:49 Why's that? They cause a ton of nuisance for people. 21:30:51 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5842.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:31:20 fusss: fool! It's not secret if you -tell- people. 21:31:25 yes, your secretly seems that it leaves a bit of secrecy to be desired. 21:32:02 -!- alinpopa [n=alinpopa@89.137.98.94] has quit [] 21:32:40 He could say he openly roots for them. He could march on washington and demand spyware authoring rights for all. 21:32:41 fwiw, it's not too hard to get a hard-to-kill botnet. offer an over the top "affiliate" service with crazy profits and people will happily cut and paste your javascript and iframes into their own websites. 21:33:45 to clarfiy, if botnet owners just need it for traffic generation, they can do it "legitly" and go "bankrupt" when the payments are due. 21:35:17 i suspect it's harder than you think to set up a successful affiliate program without actually paying people. 21:35:30 what was the Scheme part doing in that adware software? 21:36:01 There was also of course Scheme. Eventually, we got sick of writing a new C program every time we wanted to go kick somebody off of a machine. Everybody said, What we need is something configurable. I said, Lets install a Turing-complete language, and for that I used tinyScheme, which is a BSD licensed, very small, very fast implementation of Scheme that can be compiled down into about a 20K executable if you kn 21:36:01 doing. 21:37:02 ~~. 21:37:18 sorry 21:37:30 the interesting part: 21:37:39 'Eventually, instead of writing individual executables every time a worm came out, I would just write some Scheme code 21:37:50 put that up on the server, and then immediately all sorts of things would go dark. It amounted to a distributed code war on a 4-10 million-node network.' 21:38:22 ugly 21:38:30 I liked the part where he said he could have taken credit info without even the company knowing, but it takes a criminal to do something like that. 21:39:34 auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 21:40:06 in his defense, he did say that the reason he started working there was because he was going through tough times... and they eased him into doing the sketchy stuff over time. 21:40:23 Paper for the Lisp conference: 'configurable distributed adware in Scheme" 21:40:55 who needs erlang processes when you have other people's boxes 21:41:23 communistic computations 21:41:27 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 21:42:33 distributed Commune Lisp :-P 21:43:07 BorgLisp 21:45:10 Maybe a neural shunt wouldn't be such a good idea if people like fusss are going to root for spyware :P 21:45:12 lispm: MSLisp? 21:47:40 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:48:18 Why do these two trees (one being copied from the other) share the last leaf in common: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/figures/copy-tree-list-or-tree.png 21:49:19 where it says so? 21:49:32 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:49:36 drafael [n=tapio@ip-118-90-136-225.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:49:49 MSLisp ? I hope not. ;-) 21:49:57 those two cells look exactly the same ;-\ 21:50:01 the two images seem identical 21:50:04 In the next paragraph: Where a cons cell in the original referenced an atomic value, the corresponding cons cell in the copy will reference the same value. 21:50:13 But all three leaves look the same 21:50:31 iaindalton: what chapter is this? 21:50:36 So don't all the cars reference an atomic value? 21:50:40 it sounds like an error with the online version? 21:50:43 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-lists-other-uses-for-cons-cells.html 21:50:51 iaindalton: lisppaste code and repl interaction please. 21:51:20 (list (list 1 2) (list 3 4) (list 5 6)) what's what the image is. 21:51:37 oh 21:51:57 fusss: it also makes sense in context with the previous image. It's talking about copy-tree. 21:52:22 the tree gets copied and you get fresh new cons cells 21:52:39 Except the 5 6 and NIL which are shared, but I don't know why 21:52:49 it's saying that copy-list doesn't copy the sublists (shows a diagram for cons sharing), and then talks about how copy-tree makes new cons cells 21:52:53 how are they shared? 21:53:02 iaindalton: Gentle Intro has some nice cons cell visualization tools. i played with it in CMUCL with CLX 21:53:05 Thus, the only objects referenced in common by the original tree and the copy produced by COPY-TREE are the numbers 5, 6, and the symbol NIL. 21:53:26 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:53:37 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:46 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:53:48 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 21:53:58 copy-tree copies the cons cells, not necessarily the contents 21:54:33 numbers like 1 and 2 are usually stored directly in the cons cell 21:54:42 I'm not really sure what he means, actually. 21:54:47 I thought that was implementation-specific 21:54:55 a number like 79843759837495873498759834759873498573984759837498573948759837495873984759834 is not stored in a cons cell 21:55:05 fusss: Talking about this? http://www.amazon.com/Common-Lisp-Introduction-Symbolic-Computation/dp/0805304924 21:55:13 lispm: on your machine! 21:55:20 right 21:55:43 on a 1024 bit machine we can store larger numbers in cons cells ;=) 21:55:45 iaindalton: yes, it's also online on the author's website 21:55:56 64-bit is so 2000-ish 21:56:04 so the values of the cons cells of the copied tree may or may not be the same ones referenced by the original tree? 21:56:15 so, values like fixnums might be copied into the new cons cells 21:56:30 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:33 for other lisp objects like arrays, the reference gets copied 21:57:03 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:57:03 so, if you have a list of arrays and copy the list, the arrays are not copied 21:57:39 minion: please tell iaindalton about gentle 21:57:39 iaindalton: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 21:57:50 thanks 21:57:54 np 21:58:16 -!- whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:58:27 the touretzky book also has a repl that draws cons trees 22:00:07 pjb [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 22:02:01 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host207-200-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:02:26 iaindalton: Try to write a COPY-TREE function yourself. It's very easy. 22:02:41 whuwxl [n=whuwxl@2001:250:4001:10:0:5efe:de14:fa26] has joined #lisp 22:02:46 Sounds like that would help me understand it. Good idea. 22:03:04 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-148-90.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:03:12 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:04:17 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.88.66] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:04:24 Nickyy [n=nick@p4FD3EBA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:01 Has someone here worked with mod_lisp? Is the POST data of a request send as raw data after the key value pairs? 22:07:17 Nickyy2 [n=nick@p4FD3E42E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:41 was disconnected. has someone replied? 22:07:49 Nope. 22:08:07 -!- mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:09 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:29 mattrepl_ [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:33 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:08:38 I'd expect that most people these days just run a lisp webserver behind pound or mod_proxy rather than using mod_lisp. 22:08:41 Nickyy2: I suspect that nobody here uses mod_lisp 22:08:54 But I am not a webserver guy most of the time, so I really don't know. 22:09:23 Nickyy2: I used mod_lisp once, but too long ago to remember what was done to POST data. See for yourself. 22:09:33 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 22:10:00 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:34 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 22:10:44 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:11:05 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 22:11:43 Nickyy: kindly seat hunchentoot behind mod_proxy and start having fun 22:12:10 *fusss* serving 15 hunchentoot pages (mostly small, low traffic but very interactive niche sites) 22:12:19 s/pages/sites/ 22:12:27 -!- dwave [n=ask@212251217065.customer.cdi.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 22:13:30 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-24.residence.usherb.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:06 brunchdin time! (all three meals eatern together) 22:14:37 :) okay, thanks guys... btw, why not use hunchentoot directly instead of placing it behind mod_proxy and apache? 22:14:55 apache is battle worn 22:15:20 it also does virtual hosting 22:15:27 Nickyy2: I use hunchentoot and apache behind pound. 22:15:37 apache for static pages. 22:15:50 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 22:16:19 Some people prefer using apache to pound because they parse the apache logs. 22:16:39 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:17:51 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 22:18:29 *stassats* uses hunchentoot behind lighttpd on very low traffic home page 22:18:29 -!- benny99 [n=bebenny@p5486EED9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:22:24 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:22:38 fusss: hunchentoot can do virtual hosting 22:23:11 -!- Nickyy [n=nick@p4FD3EBA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:25:15 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:29:16 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:31:59 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:34 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:32:50 -!- eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:35:18 -!- kib2 [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 22:35:20 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:37:22 -!- vasa [n=vasa@80.94.234.105] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:39:07 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:25 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:41:14 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177149077.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 22:42:56 clhs return-from 22:42:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_ret_fr.htm 22:44:06 -!- Keisial [n=Keisial@unaffiliated/keisial] has quit [] 22:48:25 heya. 22:48:51 Hello tic. 22:50:10 What's looking, nyef? 22:50:28 Not much. Doing a bit of refactoring. 22:50:36 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:05 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55:53 nyef, of what? (and I meant to say cooking, not looking) 22:56:11 lisppaste, actually. 22:57:45 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:04 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:44 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:38 Do you have an idea how electric toothbrushes are charged? The charge station does not have direct contact, it's all surrounded by a washable plastic case.. 23:00:49 tcr: Induction? 23:01:01 magic 23:01:58 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-118-79.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:02:19 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-69-149-118-79.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:18 indistinguishable enough 23:03:37 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-89.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:50 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-142-89.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:03:50 The world rocks, but life's too short :( 23:05:19 I actually find the opposite true. 23:05:20 The electronic compartments in most of the electronic toothbrushes are completely sealed to prevent water damage. There are no metal contacts. These toothbrushes charge using a technique called inductive charging. In the brush unit is one half of a transformer, and in the charge-unit is the other part of the transformer. When brought together, a varying magnetic field in one coil induces a current in the other coil, thereby al 23:05:21 the charging of a battery. 23:07:11 the Palm Pre will charge in the same way. Hopefully not in your bathroom. 23:08:43 tic: The world's too short, but life rocks? 23:09:17 nyef, you're good with words, I say. 23:09:49 nyef, but I guess that's not at all the topic of #lisp, so I won't get into it. 23:10:27 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@144.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:14:02 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:25 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:18:36 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.16.154] has joined #lisp 23:18:55 younder [n=jpthing@084202158137.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 23:20:44 -!- fjs [n=chatzill@ppp-93-104-55-67.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:22:05 elurin [n=user@85.99.88.66] has joined #lisp 23:36:05 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:17 sysfault_ [n=exalted@c-68-54-153-15.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:42 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:37:44 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:38:13 -!- sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:38:17 -!- sysfault_ is now known as sysfault 23:43:59 -!- sysfault [n=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [] 23:50:06 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:51:13 iaindalton pasted "tcr: how does this look?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75455 23:52:05 return-from is useless here 23:53:04 If I didn't have that, wouldn't it go on to try the next form, which wouldn't work because you can't car a non-cons? 23:53:21 test with endp 23:53:48 (undless (endp tree) (cons ...)) 23:53:51 iaindalton: use (if (atom tree) tree (cons ...) 23:54:31 oh, you want to return the leaf. Nevermind. 23:55:02 elurin` [n=user@85.99.88.66] has joined #lisp 23:55:03 For such a simple example, I'd use an IF... But if it gets much more involved then I'd stick with the guard clause. 23:55:07 So it's right? 23:55:14 Oh nm 23:55:15 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.88.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:55:45 Whi is it atom instead of atomp? 23:56:03 Historical reasons. 23:56:37 null also isn't nullp. 23:56:54 But null -is- endp. 23:57:05 null is not endp. 23:57:15 ... No, you're right, I'm not thinking straight. 23:57:36 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.16.154] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:58:10 *ayrnieu* 'd just read http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/appd-notes.html 23:58:16 iaindalton annotated #75455 with "second try" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/75455#1 23:58:26 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-93-104-33-213.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:58:32 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A671.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:58:35 (let ((*print-circle* t)) (let ((tree '((1 2) (2 3) (4 5)))) (list tree (copy-list tree) (my-copy-tree tree)))) will show if it works 23:58:39 Okay, who's using the xml-rpc interface? 23:58:56 nyef: to lisppaste? i am 23:59:13 nyef: I use it too. 23:59:25 Oh, cool. Mind testing something for me in a bit?