00:10:30 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:11:42 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 00:16:19 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:18:12 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-3-168.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:24:03 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:26:52 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:01 elurin` [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 00:27:19 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:33:36 -!- rswarbrick [n=user@cpc2-cove3-0-0-cust513.sol2.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 00:34:06 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.117] has joined #lisp 00:38:09 -!- zzach [n=zzach@p50871306.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:07 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:43:52 aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:36 I'm having a difficulty with cl-who (I think). I've written a render-widget function in weblocks that fails because it seems that the cl-who macro expansions don't get everything, and I don 00:47:40 't understand why: 00:47:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/74702 00:47:58 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 00:48:07 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:15 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:49:01 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:51:08 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c Ya"] 00:51:43 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.117] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:52:42 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:48 aggieben: did you try doing macroexpand on the bits and pieces of it and seeing what the expansions were? 00:55:03 -!- `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.117] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:56:40 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.36] has joined #lisp 00:57:58 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:44 sykopomp: I did, but I still didn't spot my problem. (snips coming...) 00:59:30 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:00:32 ok. I annotated my paste with the one- and two-level expansions. I'm looking at the fuller expansion of with-html-output now 01:00:44 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:02:09 huh. there is no function call to :li in the full expansion 01:02:23 *aggieben* updated the paste with full expansion 01:11:50 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:14:12 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:15:20 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D116.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:16:15 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 01:16:32 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 01:16:56 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:22:45 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:09 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-82-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 01:30:53 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:36:02 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-27-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:28 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:41:28 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.36] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:49:59 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.139.36] has joined #lisp 01:50:42 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:57 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:19 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:52:47 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 01:53:22 ml`_ [n=milan@port-92-192-85-219.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:54:11 -!- ml` [n=milan@port-92-192-62-89.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:01:48 EtFb [n=etfb@203.22.236.8] has joined #lisp 02:02:08 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 02:03:18 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 02:07:32 rackky [n=gg@149.254.48.90] has joined #lisp 02:07:46 any good books on lisp please 02:08:29 rackky: do you have programming experience? 02:08:35 yes I do 02:08:43 c, java a bit 02:08:44 minion: please tell rackky about that-dead-sexy-book 02:08:45 rackky: please see that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 02:08:46 and python 02:08:53 that should be good, then 02:09:02 it's a fantastic book :) 02:09:21 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 02:09:21 and if you have questions, feel free to ask, we'll point you to the right place 02:09:27 why LISP is not popular? 02:09:35 commerical I mean 02:09:52 It is a Nazi plot. 02:09:54 rackky: that's a very very complicated subject. PCL talks about it a bit, but it's not something you can write some bullet points for. 02:11:09 does any one use lisp? 02:11:10 in real world 02:11:15 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:11:23 I mean commerically 02:11:41 rackky: Yes, there's a few pretty big examples. ITA Software is the biggest current one that I know of. 02:12:37 see http://itasoftware.com/about_us/cs_orbitz.html 02:12:55 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 02:13:20 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:14 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@203.22.236.8] has left #lisp 02:15:31 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 02:18:39 which box is good for windows 02:18:52 allegro or clisp 02:19:09 allegro if you want to pay an arm and a leg 02:20:02 clisp is good for learning, though, but the code it compiles isn't as fast as, say, sbcl or allegro 02:22:08 I'm told corman lisp is good, but never used it 02:23:19 -!- dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:23:33 Lisp can be both great or terrible in its own way. 02:24:53 Like just about any language, but some are just terrible in general. ;-) 02:25:08 *sykopomp* thinks java. 02:26:57 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:24 sykopomp: actually, I think allegro is pretty reasonably priced. It's cheaper than visual studio, for sure. 02:28:46 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@42.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:49 aggieben: maybe for dedicated, experienced lispers building software that they want to charge for (and earn good money on), and that possibly even have funding for this kind of stuff. Maybe not so much for casual hobbyists :P 02:29:15 sykopomp: yes. I was really speaking from a more professional context. 02:29:51 I don't know, paying for Allegro seems like a leap of faith even so 02:30:17 hefner: the trial doesn't give you a good enough idea if you want it or not? 02:30:48 Somehow I feel that "what's a good lisp for " should be viewed from the hobbiest in depressed economy perspective. 02:31:11 caoliver, colinux+sbcl is not a bad lisp for Windows. 02:31:19 s/hobbiest/hobbyist/ 02:31:29 in a depressed economy, you should install linux 02:31:29 clisp is a decent free lisp for windows 02:31:30 I'm hobbier than you! 02:31:51 I'm running Slime/Gnu-Emacs/SBCL on Slackware, so four for four. 02:32:01 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:32:01 aggieben: not really, because first it has to convince me that it offers something that SBCL doesn't 02:32:11 slackware still exists? whoa. 02:32:27 hefner: better threading model, better gc engine for starters 02:32:42 Patrick V. just pushed out 12.2. 02:32:48 hefner: and better optimized code, from what I can tell 02:32:51 aggieben: I find that hard to believe, but maybe we use different operating systems 02:33:37 Never the less, Weinreb doesn't find the Slime/SBCL combo unworthy even though ITA is also using Clozure as well. 02:34:45 hefner: Allegro is honestly probably the best choice for windows development with lisp. 02:34:50 sbcl wins the psychological performance war because it can compile nice fast numerical loops 02:34:58 Seeing as SBCL is kinda very meh on windows :P 02:35:18 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 02:35:28 hefner: i think Allegro is very nice on Linux too (although I don't knock SBCL - that's what I normally use) 02:35:30 windows is very meh 02:35:31 Make the computer dual boot? Run Windows under virtualization as needed? 02:35:56 caoliver: some people actually have this crazy idea that they want to develop apps for windows. 02:36:07 don't look at me, though. I wouldn't be caught dead... 02:36:16 Some people! ;-) 02:36:38 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:36:47 I actually may be facing that hurdle myself. 02:36:49 sykopomp: more importantly, some people want to write apps that work on Linux /and/ Windows 02:37:18 my point, I guess, is that there's such a large gap between linux-running SBCL hippies, and windows-using allegro customers 02:37:31 aggieben, PLT Scheme is not a bad Lisp for that... 02:37:37 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:44 I'm a bit sore about allegro as well, though. I feel the long-time lack of a very high-performance cross-platform lisp is certainly a thorn on lisp's side. Telling beginners that they have to shell out a few hundred bucks to write anything worthwhile doesn't really help the case. 02:37:54 Fare; yeah, I've looked at PLT before, and it looks fine - I just wanted to stick with common lisp rather than jumping to Scheme. 02:38:01 cp1134 [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has joined #lisp 02:38:02 first, find your REAL goal -- then discuss the means. 02:38:21 Can you skip the sermonizing and handcuffs about immutable conses with the recent PLT Scheme? 02:38:33 Bravo, Fare! 02:38:49 Fare: for me as a hobbyist, learning something interesting was the real goal. Common Lisp is more interesting to me than Scheme. 02:38:53 immutable conses by default sound like a great idea, actually. 02:39:05 (perhaps by analogy, SBCL is to Linux as Allegro is to Solaris and Lispworks is to Mac OS X) 02:39:16 aggieben, learning WHAT? 02:39:33 Fare: something interesting 02:39:51 "something interesting" turned out to be "programming in common lisp" for me 02:39:51 Every now and then I WANT to use an imperative data structure though. 02:40:25 -!- cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:40:34 caoliver: haskellians would chew you out for that one 02:41:19 I tend to zone out on the doctrinaire. 02:41:41 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:41:42 Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:40 I wonder if it's just me -- this channel seems to have gotten pretty active lately 02:42:48 aggieben, then ANY cl implementation will do. 02:43:39 sykopomp: it's just you, aside from perhaps some additional offtopic rambling lately 02:44:10 Fare: not entirely. Not every implementation is equal, and I've found Emacs+SBCL on Linux to be the most fun to use, so I use them. 02:44:48 Fare: I like Allegro more than SBCL, but not enough to shell out $hundreds for it unless I can earn a living with it. 02:46:25 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:46:44 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-154-0.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:48:47 aggieben: are you using SBCL under Slime? 02:49:21 aggieben, then for windows, I recommend colinux + sbcl + slime. 02:50:03 Is colinux a virtualize Linux? 02:50:12 s/ize/ized/ 02:51:30 Ok. I found it. I just don't currently have Windows machine to wrestle with. (Thank gawd!) 02:52:22 aggieben, although instead of colinux, any vmware, xen, etc., will do. 02:53:53 Fare: or I could just use Emacs+Slime+SBCL on a real Linux box like I already do. 02:54:03 yeah that 02:55:15 even better 02:56:48 -!- fgtech [i=nemesis@bnc1.shellium.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:57:24 silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:44 -!- silas428 [n=ryan@c-67-182-172-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:03:31 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:15 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0D92.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:08:03 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:16 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:08:22 -!- atypic [i=lykkebo@tvilling2.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:08:31 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:09:02 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:13 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:55 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 03:15:36 atypic [n=lykkebo@tvilling2.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 03:16:09 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 03:16:18 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:20:11 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:24:34 -!- ferada [n=user@e179235089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["night"] 03:26:06 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:26:21 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:30 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 03:28:03 Is Fare who just left one of the guys who's working on a replacement for ASDF? 03:28:23 he's working on xcvb 03:28:33 the answer isn't necessarily yes 03:28:44 I thought so. 03:29:07 I.e. xcvb isn't necessarily a replacement for asdf. 03:29:16 is cclan still a going concern? 03:32:44 I'd like nothing better than to see the CL community sort out its infrastructure 03:32:58 these things don't happen by themselves. 03:33:05 well, maybe I'd like to see LispWorks open source everything more :) 03:33:07 no indeed 03:33:47 I'm both somewhat green and have been out of the loop, not sure where things are up to 03:35:00 -!- rackky [n=gg@149.254.48.90] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:35:22 got PCL in hardback recently figure I'll work through that as a refresher 03:36:58 what does it mean to "open source everything more"? 03:38:21 if you use LW then edi' starter pack should give you the start to add more cliki packages to LW 03:39:08 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:37 I still don't understand what this community infrastructure is supposed to do for me 03:39:57 hefner: you know, the question is: what can you do for the community :-P 03:41:46 which community? the douchebag dabblers who claim it's a lack of infrastructure holding CL back from world domination? 03:42:04 hefner: that's a pretty great way to put it. It's hard for me to disagree. 03:42:07 *sykopomp* points to lispforum 03:42:20 -!- Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has left #lisp 03:44:03 *hefner* is just being snarky 03:44:41 I don't worry much about world dominatrix. 03:44:45 hefner: it would certainly be nice to have things such as better-maintained libraries, better library distribution, and better documentation... 03:45:21 Trouble is that usually involves turning CL into the kitchen sink du jour. 03:47:03 This would be fine if we were talking about an implementation just as Smalltalk-80, Symbolics Genera, or Pestov's Factor, but specifying a kitchen sink tied to concerns of the day seems short-sighted to me. 03:47:38 For a language spec that is. 03:48:16 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 03:48:29 I wouldn't mind a nice kitchen to work in, but I don't expect the neighborhood to build it for me just because I leave the back door open 03:49:15 And not everyone wants the same kitchen. Some like old (rusting) carbon knives and wooden cutting boards. 03:49:55 Some want gas range, and some want electric. 03:51:26 -!- fualo_ [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:51:44 fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 03:52:34 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:39 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #lisp 04:00:05 sykopomp: that's complaint I've come to not understand anymore..... 04:00:16 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:00:25 what other languages have all tha? it certainly doesn't stop C/C++ or Java, and they dominate everything 04:00:50 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has joined #lisp 04:01:00 It's the advantage of the "platform". 04:01:20 unix, jvm. 04:01:36 aggieben: a lot of other languages have a lot of things included in the core that lisp relies on as libraries. 04:01:39 perhaps they have better maintained libraries, but the library distribution thing is a pretty rare thing. Only a few languages have a baked-in distribution mechanism 04:01:47 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 04:01:50 Perhaps defining a Lisp Virtual Machine that would be used by several implementations would help? 04:01:56 sykopomp: "better-" is a useless desire to express. Of course you'd want better everything. A useful comment would contain absolute objectives. 04:02:02 sykopomp: I don't think that's true. Most other languages also rely heavily on libraries. 04:02:26 pkhuong: that's a good point. Sorry :) 04:02:37 One thing I /do/ think is true: the OS platforms support other languages better 04:03:00 Ever since Gentoo got overlays in portage, I've been pretty happy, though. 04:03:01 aggieben: on the other hand, libecl.so exists. 04:03:33 there's a common-lisp overlay that I like very much, and I don't have to rely on clbuild or asdf-install to tend to my library installations 04:03:56 pjb: yes, but how does it get on your system? that's what I'm really talking about. 04:04:20 aggieben: well, thru normal distribution packaging. debian, gentoo, etc. 04:05:22 pjb: right. that's what I'm getting at. Most distributions don't have good support for lisp libraries. Most have packages of some kind for the various implementations, but not so much for the libraries. Gentoo didn't either, until recently (but now I'm happy with it). 04:05:45 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:05 aggieben: agreed. Usually lisp libraries have something special. But in the case of ECL, they look like normal C libraries, it seems. 04:06:45 pjb: ECL has to compile libraries for its own use just like every other implementation, doesn't it? 04:07:01 Yes. Can it compile them to .a or .so? 04:07:11 i dunno. 04:07:13 in ECL, all the basic stuff is in C 04:07:19 -!- atypic [n=lykkebo@tvilling2.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:07:22 atypic [i=lykkebo@tvilling2.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 04:07:44 you can generate ELF executables that pull in ecl.so 04:09:22 Somebody asked last month whether it would be possible to write in Lisp libraries usable by C programs. If split-sequence was useful to random C program, it would get installed as a dependency by more distributions... I answered rather negatively, due to the differences of ABI between lisp and C. 04:09:50 yes and I don't think ECL is a magic bullet for that 04:10:14 though it is designed so you can easily embed a lisp environment in your C apps 04:10:20 -!- voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has quit ["sleep"] 04:10:48 doing so just to get a few functions wouldn't make much sense 04:11:30 I was thinking the other day about emacs... there is hemlock and some other attempts to reimplement it in CL and other lisps 04:11:53 but I don't think they end up being compatible with elisp, and that's where most of the emacs libs are 04:12:14 then I thought, the C core of emacs is supposed to be small by comparison, so reimplement that in ECL 04:12:30 There are sketches of compatibility layers, implementation of emacs lisp in CL. 04:12:44 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:13:01 then tack on support for writing extensions in CL, and some interop between them and elisp 04:13:24 would probably be slow but might fare better if it had ~100% elisp compatibility 04:14:21 In this spirit, there's emacs-cl which allows you to write emacs extensions in CL. 04:14:23 Good morning. 04:14:30 mornin' beach 04:14:31 oh 04:14:40 We could start to use that, and slowly convert more and more emacs package into CL. 04:14:51 does it run a separate process and talk over pipes? 04:15:26 I know that most elispers use 'cl to get some decent functionality, but those functions are implemented in elisp 04:15:27 It's an implementation of CL in emacs lisp. 04:15:37 ok yah the same thing 04:16:05 Well, you get a full subset of CL. (It's 70-80% complete) 04:16:52 Anyways, I've got to get a few hours of sleep. Good night! 04:17:28 night 04:17:30 :) 04:19:09 spacebat: Though I think that many of the libraries written in emacs lisp are not so good. 04:19:23 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:19:37 spacebat: And some of them use Emacs as a GUI substrate just because there was nothing better at the time. 04:20:21 -!- ilitirit [n=john@192.51.54.129] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:20:33 spacebat: What I am saying here is that I don't buy the library argument as a reason for not going with a complete rewrite. 04:21:48 ok 04:22:10 I once tried to get hemlock working but struggled and failed 04:22:21 I just haven't seen a credible alternative 04:22:35 minion: tell spacebat about Climacs 04:22:36 spacebat: have a look at Climacs: Climacs is an Emacs-like text editor written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/Climacs 04:22:41 emacs itself might be an example of worse-is-better, which certainly worked for PHP 04:23:09 spacebat: Climacs already has a much better incremental parser than Emacs does. 04:23:44 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:21 spacebat: in the case of PHP we should say worst-is-better 04:25:47 ok 04:26:50 beach: ...is the focus bug fixed? 04:27:13 and does it still crash spectacularly when you try to compile stuff in a buffer? 04:27:26 evening 04:27:34 sykopomp: I don't know. I don't think anyone has worked on it since. 04:27:38 helly slyrus 04:27:48 howdy beach. what's new? 04:28:00 slyrus: boring administration. 04:28:40 slyrus: what about you? 04:29:02 just got back from a week of skiing in colorado. time to go back to the ground tomorrow. 04:29:18 I made some progress on the rewrite of my molecule layout algorithm while I was gone, however. 04:29:43 slyrus: Ah, progress! 04:29:51 Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:18 it's still not back to the level of functionality it had before, but it it does things a bit better. should be able to finish it up in the next couple of days, hopefully. 04:31:31 regarding an earlier discussion I missed; people who want to see influential lisp software should look at SLIME. Slime has got to be the most heavily copied and requested development tool in recent memory. "Slime-like" is everywhere, in most language communities I have seen. 04:32:11 fusss: yeah. Slime is pretty amazing. 04:32:37 slime so good 04:32:41 could be better, but good 04:35:17 not to name drop, but i gave a slime demo to a friend who is developing some public health software, and we might even get a NSF supported slime-clone in some fringe industry :-P it runs R as an inferior process :-) 04:35:36 inferior indeed (hoho) 04:35:54 is gonna get more lispy RSN 04:36:51 I've started going through a good F# book, and I'm pretty impressed with how much lispy stuff is in there. It even has conses. 04:37:35 aren't conses what all the cool functional languages are using nowadays? :P 04:37:47 the F# interactive window in Visual Studio isn't bad either. The whole environment isn't nearly as sophisticated as Slime, but it's kinda neat. 04:37:59 aggieben: ew .net :-\ 04:38:01 most functional languages have cons/::/+ or some such operator. but they don't have cons _cells_; car and cdr are lost on them. 04:38:05 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:16 fusss: F# has a car and cdr :-) 04:38:24 different names, same function 04:38:32 fusss: they also work on the concept of 'first' and 'rest' 04:38:33 'fst' and 'snd', I think 04:38:52 archaic naming schemes are not necessary for having the same concept. 04:39:24 i know one high ranking and very influential F# consultant who will have Lispy operators removed on his next key speech the MS board of directors, and Ben Bernanke. 04:40:08 ;-) 04:43:44 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:49:58 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 04:55:06 drafael 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[n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 07:04:29 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:04:44 djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:05:53 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 07:09:44 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@175.sub-70-196-12.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:10:26 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@175.sub-70-196-12.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 07:10:52 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:20 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C4A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:20 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C4A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:13:43 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 07:15:00 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 07:27:58 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:29:15 Hello 07:32:43 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:32:59 -!- garvin [n=garvin@61.29.202.42] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:34:36 merach_ [n=merach@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:38 krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has joined #lisp 07:42:38 mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:42 hello MrSpec 07:42:45 good morning 07:42:50 hello mvilleneuve 07:44:25 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:45:13 mornin' again 07:45:25 hello sykopomp 07:46:23 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:46:53 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 07:48:37 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 07:50:03 morning sykopomp, beach, mvilleneuve 07:50:35 you guys starting your day while I'm about to go to bed. :) 07:50:52 felideon: hardly. It's about to be 3am :) 07:50:59 ah k. same here 07:50:59 hehe 07:51:27 felideon: and I have been up for almost 4 hours. 07:52:19 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-c081a8bd424bbfb9] has joined #lisp 07:52:20 you're in France, right? 07:53:10 hey, what are .lisp.elc files? 07:53:26 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:53:32 compiled elisp 07:53:36 "compiled" 07:53:51 ah gotcha 07:54:37 felideon: Yes, I am in France. 07:55:30 I wish I can go back there soon. 07:55:38 s/wish/hope 07:57:51 Wait until the weather improves. 07:58:49 I was in Paris when there was this "canicule" in 2005 I think 07:59:57 Yeah, it can get pretty hot here. More and more often it seems, in Bx we reach almost 40°C. 08:00:34 wow 08:02:06 felideon: What's the difference between "wish" and "hope" here? Thanks 08:02:28 workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 08:06:36 echo-area: Wish is more subjunctive I guess, and the phrasing would be something like "I wish I *could* go to France again soon." 08:06:37 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@175.sub-70-196-12.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:07:03 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 08:07:38 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@175.sub-70-196-12.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:24 but that would mean I definitely can't go anytime soon. 08:09:26 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 08:10:14 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:11:05 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:13:40 benny [n=benny@87.122.0.255] has joined #lisp 08:14:27 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:27 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:14:29 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 08:15:43 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:03 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:16:04 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:13 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:17:55 eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:04 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 08:20:00 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:20:36 mega1 [n=mega@4d6f4fab.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:20:38 -!- elurin` is now known as elurin 08:21:11 -!- elurin is now known as Guest30750 08:21:25 -!- Guest30750 is now known as elurin` 08:21:42 -!- elurin` is now known as elured 08:22:34 -!- elured is now known as elurin` 08:23:30 -!- elurin` is now known as elured 08:23:35 hmmm, I just want to thank felideon. 08:24:07 Xlas [n=28@c-4f3e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:25:07 -!- elured is now known as elurin 08:26:11 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:27:11 <_8david> hefner: better threading model, better gc engine for starters 08:27:31 <_8david> Really? What so good about Allegro's garbage collection? 08:32:35 it comes with excellent technical support 08:33:23 :-) 08:35:31 good morning. 08:36:02 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 08:36:10 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:36:31 ok, well, I unexpectedly find myself with a little bit of free time today 08:36:42 because the entire country has shut down on account of 10cm of snow 08:38:38 sykopomp: w00t! http://www.cliki.net/ParenScriptObjectSystem :-) 08:38:40 Krystof: is snow that infrequent there? 08:38:43 yes 08:38:59 Krystof: Ouch! What are you going to do with this extra time? 08:39:08 good question 08:39:18 maybe work out how to sign that wretched copyright form 08:39:33 How hard can it be? 08:40:15 fusss: son-of-a-bitch :P 08:40:30 oh, but it's on top of JS 08:40:31 phew 08:40:39 -!- drafael [n=quassel@ip-118-90-129-78.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:00 drafael [n=quassel@ip-118-90-130-209.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:41:04 hey, JS is good enough! 08:41:11 it's really not. 08:42:12 it's gonna take allot of careful hacking, hammering lisp into a fickle and degenerate platform like javascript, imo 08:42:33 JS isn't particularly bad. 08:42:37 i have trouble making one javascript library with another, without throwing a lisp translator in the mix 08:42:53 Just use 1.7 or 1.8, which supports let. 08:43:12 Zhivago: now which version of it supports block-level local variables? 08:43:32 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:44:10 The ones above. 08:44:17 That's what 'let' does. 08:44:28 Without that you need to do lambda transforms. 08:45:14 sounds very high brow, until its breaks 08:45:22 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:45:30 Just a little matter of quality-of-implementation :) 08:45:35 and since when do I control the js engine? :-) 08:46:07 1.5 is the barebones you can safely count on; not everyone runs nightly builds 08:46:23 Just tell everyone else to go to hell :) 08:46:51 riiight 08:47:04 Or generate lets as (function (a, b, c) { ... }(1, 2, 3)) 08:48:32 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:51 the majority of the time you will be working with your js framework's object system, and you can't break contract by doing "Good Parts" type of shit. anyway, parenscriptized jquery should be good enough for me. 08:49:23 Just remember that parenscript's let is a bit broken, iirc. 08:49:44 getting leading zeros?? (format nil "~2,0D" 9) is wrong? 08:49:55 yes, it's wrong 08:50:09 I've noticed 08:50:17 You probably want '0 08:50:25 ah, probably 08:50:38 indeed, thank you 08:51:06 the top hit of google "Format D clhs" tells me the answer 08:51:31 too bad that didn't make it into the CLHS as an example 08:51:31 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:52:07 would you like to guess again? 08:52:20 clhs 22.3.11 08:52:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ck.htm 08:52:33 hyperspec/HyperSpec/Body/22_cbb.htm 08:52:35 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 08:52:50 what is your point, exactly? 08:52:58 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:53:23 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:42 I'd have thought that a section entitled "Examples of FORMAT" would be a good place to look for examples of format 08:53:44 <_8david> don't you have copyright forms to fill in? ;-) 08:54:00 flaming people for reading comprehension failure is more fun 08:54:07 I'm not allowed to do it to my students, so... 08:54:14 inventing flames even more so 08:54:34 Make them sign a waiver showing that they accept beatings with a stick. 08:55:05 ahm yet another good way to encourage people to try lisp 09:00:05 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:04 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:02:59 dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has joined #lisp 09:03:19 sulo [n=sulo@p57B4B5F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:21 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:08:35 -!- krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 09:08:59 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:09:37 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:11:09 zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has joined #lisp 09:11:29 Hi all 09:12:36 beach: you got mail 09:16:45 zorgzorg2: Maybe so, but the machines are down at the moment :( 09:18:38 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:49 zorgzorg2: you still there? 09:18:51 http://www.nndb.com/people/006/000030913/ anyone check out this elephant thing? 09:19:19 how well does the lisp regex package work for parsing gigs and gigs fo logs? 09:19:29 <_8david> look, someone who actually deserves the flaming 09:20:42 antek [n=antek@dip.tek.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 09:20:46 -!- gdmfsob is now known as mishok13 09:22:58 true 09:23:27 hello, gavino; why on earth are you still coming here? 09:24:52 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:25:53 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:27:30 hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775342.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 09:27:30 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775342.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:27:57 the_unmaker: you don't get it do you? 09:29:25 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 09:29:53 my curiousity never ends 09:30:15 I was watching a vid of uncommon web, but the damn thing is blurry 09:30:22 Is that what you think it is about? Then like I said, you don't get it, do you? 09:30:23 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:30:41 when trying to unify "fobb" against "trom" (substitution crypto), I used two dictionaries, one in each direction and character in the string. if I only use one, I can get false positives, like in this case that shouldn't be unifyable. Is a double dictionary a good way of going about here? 09:30:51 what am I not getting ? 09:31:09 (possibly not 100% related to Lisp, other than the fact that I'm solving it in said language.) 09:33:16 hello lispers 09:33:38 hello kiuma 09:35:24 is there a way to split "foo.bar.txt" into "foo.bar" "txt 09:35:49 minion, split-sequence 09:35:51 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 09:36:38 mmm... I was considering cl-ppcre 09:36:49 let's see better split-sequence 09:37:12 tcr1 [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:42 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:38:14 drewc: are you around ? 09:39:09 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:42:11 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:42:59 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-169.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 09:43:15 is it possible for 2 machines, each running lisps, to trade data in the form of lisp lists over tcp ip? 09:43:31 and thus avoid xml? 09:43:51 can you think of some reasons why this would not be possible? i.e., what is required to do this? 09:44:11 It is possible. 09:44:21 The main requirement is that you use interned symbols. 09:44:27 the_unmaker, give a llook at cl-store 09:44:34 whatever happened to elephant having some kind of garbage collector (however inefficient)? 09:45:21 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 09:45:47 Krystof: I'm sorry, I didn't mean it :( 09:45:56 no no, not you 09:45:58 anyone have an idea why I could be getting this errormessage: clsql_mysql.c:34:19: error: mysql.h: No such file or directory ? 09:46:19 wow cl-store looks cool 09:46:39 Cel's question is about cl-sql, where can the header be found? 09:46:54 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*@gateway/tor/x-089e6bd3ba82f1f8 09:46:59 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:47:36 the_unmaker: cl-store is fantastic, but it's not what you want if you need a constantly persistent app (webapp or such) 09:47:41 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*the_unma*@* 09:48:01 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*n=g@*.socal.res.rr.com 09:48:07 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:48:28 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 09:50:45 rotty [n=rotty@80-121-87-114.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:50:58 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:10 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:51:17 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:52:47 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:52:58 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 09:53:11 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:53:26 hmmm... May I know what red line was crossed by the_unmaker to get banned, so that I don't cross it, too ? Asking a question about serializing lisp data over a socket is something I could have done. 09:53:32 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:54:38 oh, he's gavino? 09:54:55 who's gavino? c.l.l. troll? 09:55:16 yeah .. waste of time 09:55:34 makes sense. I was a bit surprised he'd get banned just over being a stupid newbie :) 09:56:16 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:44 eevar2__ [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:57:25 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:58:18 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 09:58:27 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:59:21 -!- jao [n=user@20.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:59:41 __death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 10:00:34 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:25 hey wait, haven't I seen the_unmaker here whilst he was not trolling? or am I mistaken? 10:03:25 kuwabara: an established pattern over years of trolling mindlessly 10:03:37 sykopomp: he has been a stupid newbie since 2005 10:03:42 if you think that's the first time he's ever asked that question, I have a bridge I want to sell you 10:04:05 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:07:06 my kludge idea is even more possible, wow! say, Qt "container" app that uses the embedded webkit engine displays that application window which is entirely html served by a hunchentoot server started by the container itself! :-) 10:08:32 you can even "remote" your application window by sharing your session ID with techsupport. 10:11:10 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 10:11:30 here be eye-candy http://dist.trolltech.com/pdf/qt-webkit-feb-2008-whitepaper-a4.pdf 10:12:35 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:14:05 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C4A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:42 -!- __death is now known as _death 10:16:41 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:18:41 clsql problem resolved through mudballs, thanks madnificent ! 10:19:47 :P 10:20:29 <_8david> mudballs helps with missing libmysql C library installations? Wow. 10:20:55 *_3b* assumes it helps with the 'asdf-install loads everything' problem 10:25:55 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0C4A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:06 tiesje` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 10:26:11 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C4A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:26:13 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 10:26:39 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 10:27:24 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:29:19 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-c081a8bd424bbfb9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:33:54 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:48 hi, do you know about similar functionality like sb-kernel:double-float-high-bits in clisp? 10:43:12 jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:44 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:49:27 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.75.254] has joined #lisp 10:51:27 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.15] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:52:38 elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 10:53:29 l4ndfo: There's a package `ieee-floats' which you can use to this portably. 10:54:04 (fsvo "portable") 10:56:26 It may make sense to change it not to return a bignum for doubles, but two (unsigned-byte 32) values. 10:59:04 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 10:59:13 KucukMubasir1 [n=Halliday@85.102.231.34] has joined #lisp 11:00:29 -!- kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 11:00:35 tcr: yes i know that package, but that is too slow for me 11:01:30 it is incredibly faster to use the own functions of the lisp implementation 11:01:56 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:14 i would agree, that it would be good to support these fast methods by ieee-floats, but i haven't contacted with the authors with this issue, maybe later... 11:04:44 nathanael [n=nathanae@vpn508-130.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:28 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:10:21 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:12:06 -!- nathanael [n=nathanae@vpn508-130.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:17:24 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [] 11:18:51 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.116.13] has joined #lisp 11:19:55 -!- tiesje` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:29:40 -!- aundro_ [n=aundro@108.116-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:30:02 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:30:55 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:42:18 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483CCD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:52 aundro_ [n=aundro@197.99-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 11:46:02 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:56:21 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:32 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:57:41 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:59:46 -!- larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:01:23 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:03:10 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.116.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:04:37 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.116.13] has joined #lisp 12:04:46 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 12:05:31 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:18 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:11:12 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-156-30.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:13:29 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:17:16 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:44 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:21:54 elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 12:22:49 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:26:14 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 12:26:36 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #lisp 12:29:17 vy pasted "non-blocking network stream" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74718 12:30:02 Shouldn't the 2nd call to READ-SEQUENCE in above paste be blocking? 12:30:16 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:31:44 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 12:33:03 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:35:36 -!- KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:35:48 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:35:51 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:36:16 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 12:40:29 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 12:40:45 -!- hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775342.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:05 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775342.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:44:03 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 12:47:13 vy: it returned 0. 12:48:09 The strange thing is that it returns 0 like this in here, but in my actual code, it blocks. 12:48:20 vy: sbcl choose to identify no data on stream to end of file. 12:48:31 it seems. 12:48:41 perhaps it depends on whether the remote closed the stream? 12:49:11 Spaija [n=Spaija@nat/cisco/x-2e9adcead372775a] has joined #lisp 12:49:31 It print outs the stuff after I close the stream, but it is probably related with buffering stuff. 12:49:46 BTW, (listen stream) returns NIL in both loop iterations. 12:51:57 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-222.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:52:03 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 12:52:20 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:52:30 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 12:53:09 KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 12:53:46 jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 12:54:10 c|mell [n=cmell@EM114-48-219-172.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:54:16 To be honest, and I regret to say that, CL is really lacking of a proper networking API. 12:55:27 Look at IOLib. 12:55:30 iolib works fine .. 12:55:34 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:22 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 12:57:25 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:58:09 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 12:58:28 lnostdal: What happened to SW? 12:59:40 i lost interest in the open source community thing .. ppl. are morons; screw'em and screw it 12:59:53 don't want to talk about it 13:00:17 voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has joined #lisp 13:00:36 lol 13:01:08 for me the deal killer with oss is the lack of profit 13:01:14 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 13:03:18 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #lisp 13:03:41 gcopenhaver [n=greg@c-71-206-116-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:41 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.116.13] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:03:47 beach: got your email, thanks! 13:05:34 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:05:50 people seem to like open source when they're asked to take rather than give 13:07:01 kefka [n=user@ec2-75-101-205-165.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:29 I have a problem with CLSQL: whenever I try to use multiple connections, I get "Unhandled memory fault" errors. Does anyone else have this problem? 13:08:43 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:08:51 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.116.13] has joined #lisp 13:09:15 KucukMubasir2 [n=Halliday@85.97.58.93] has joined #lisp 13:10:18 mvilleneuve: No problem. 13:10:45 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-203-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:48 -!- KucukMubasir1 [n=Halliday@85.102.231.34] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:11:06 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:13:16 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:00 <_8david> _3b: is there an AMF 3 implementation in Common Lisp already? I thought I had one, but it seems to be for AMF 0. 13:17:53 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:21:03 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:28 iskander_ [n=iskander@kovu.foxxz.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:31 -!- KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:50 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@EM114-48-219-172.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:30:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:31:03 <_3b> _8david: no idea, haven't done any serious flash stuff yet 13:31:09 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 13:32:08 KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 13:32:11 <_8david> ok. I'll write one. 13:32:16 <_8david> Have you decided on a license for the swf2 sources? 13:32:32 hello 13:32:53 Xof: I tried to compile sparc/linux sbcl the other day on a sparc64 and the host sbcl segfaulted. 13:33:12 (after quite some time) 13:33:25 is this combination supposed to work? 13:34:17 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:34:29 <_3b> _8david: not specifically, bsd or mit of some sort probably 13:35:47 <_8david> that would be good, since I would `need' something compatible to SBCL's license 13:36:09 <_3b> wouldn't anything be compatible with sbcl? 13:36:39 <_3b> or were you in one of those no P countries? 13:36:47 <_3b> *no public domain 13:41:12 <_8david> there are stricter licenses that could be used with SBCL, sure. I was just hoping for a license that *isn't* stricter, so BSD or MIT would be great. 13:41:14 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:41:25 yango_ [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 13:41:58 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:42:02 <_8david> anyway, I care more about the fact that your code doesn't give me permission to use it at all currently. A license file would be nice for clarification. 13:42:23 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:42:38 <_3b> ok, i'll try to do something about that at some point 13:43:21 <_3b> main computer has been down for few days, and probably a bit longer til it is back 13:46:23 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [] 13:47:13 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:47:13 <_3b> you made any interesting progress with the sbcl stuff? 13:47:37 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:10 anybody using cl-pdf with sbcl? it seems to choke on binary output stream, i get the following error: could not find any output routine for :FULL buffered :UNSIGNED-BYTE 13:48:29 -!- KucukMubasir2 [n=Halliday@85.97.58.93] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:49:08 cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:18 -!- cads_ [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:50:04 athos [n=philipp@p54B8648F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:45 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:52:59 manuel_: you need to switch off compression 13:53:20 oh, k 13:53:43 manuel_: cl-pdf:*compress-streams* iirc 13:54:36 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:28 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:57:07 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:36 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:49 tomsw [n=user@d54C1CF3A.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:03:03 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D9F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:30 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:03:52 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 14:04:31 mega1: I'm never quite sure when people talk about sparc64 14:04:36 I think it is meant to work, though 14:05:13 larstobi [n=larstobi@195.139.173.50] has joined #lisp 14:06:01 damn, then I'll investigate a bit 14:06:23 I mean, it's not something that I rigorously test or even understand, so it's entirely possible that there's a platform thingy that we get wrong 14:06:57 fwiw, the debian buildds have been building it OK for a while (the large number of "maybe-failed" is at least partly because texinfo or something related didn't build on sparc/linux for ages, I think) 14:08:07 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["leaving"] 14:16:19 There is nothing like a good dose of the French administration to completely drain all available energy for the day. 14:18:27 nyef [n=nyef@70.20.58.237] has joined #lisp 14:21:25 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 14:23:13 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:23:39 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.2] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:24:36 -!- antek [n=antek@dip.tek.sdu.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:25:13 loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has joined #lisp 14:27:15 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@221.237.116.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:49 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 14:29:20 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:29:30 beach: not only a french problem, I think 14:31:18 a-s` [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 14:32:31 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:21 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:34:54 -!- laynor [n=laynor@host-84-221-137-9.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:01 TDT [n=TDT@113.91.248.216.dyn.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:06 madnificent: Sorry to hear that. 14:41:30 ils ont fermee la centrale ? 14:43:14 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 14:50:35 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:16 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:54:43 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:54:57 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-44.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:55:20 -!- merach_ [n=merach@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:55:31 is there an easy way to check if a filename is a directory? 14:56:27 minion: tell cel about cl-fad 14:56:29 cel: have a look at cl-fad: CL-FAD is a portable pathname library based on code from Peter Seibel's book Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fad 14:59:07 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-71-165-20-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:02:06 reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:02:29 beach, query. 15:03:18 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:47 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:09 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:10:42 david_s [n=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-09bed1cf02aeab29] has joined #lisp 15:11:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:12:44 -!- david_s [n=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-09bed1cf02aeab29] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15:03 Which would be more resource efficient: 1) Collecting buffers into a list and finally concatenating 'em all, or 2) using VECTOR-PUSH-EXTEND on an initial vector? 15:15:34 Depends. 15:15:52 vy: are these buffers strings? 15:16:39 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:18:28 write both versions and measure 15:18:33 who knows, you might even learn something in the process 15:20:34 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 15:21:23 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:21:26 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:22:40 BTW, these are '(vector octet) buffers. 15:26:00 tsuru [n=user@66.199.17.194] has joined #lisp 15:26:17 schasi [n=schasi@p54A26E63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:35 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Operation timed out] 15:29:58 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@0x55529153.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:32:25 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:34 -!- rey_ [i=pdewacht@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:34:53 -!- PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:36:30 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@XPLR-TS-10-VAN-67-201-133-74.barrettxplore.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:33 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-203-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:37:24 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:11 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 15:38:15 how can I get the string value of a pathname? 15:38:29 clhs namestring 15:38:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 15:38:38 thanks again! 15:38:54 Cel: i'd suggest that you took a look into pcl to learn some basics about pathnames, though. 15:39:13 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:40:02 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 15:40:55 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:10 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B8648F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 15:42:21 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [] 15:42:43 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 15:43:24 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 15:43:59 josemanuel [n=josemanu@125.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:45:46 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["gotta go"] 15:45:52 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:21 -!- loxs [n=loxs@83.228.122.198] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:47:25 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-134.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:22 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-134.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:49:27 -!- khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 15:50:21 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 15:51:41 -!- tomsw [n=user@d54C1CF3A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:52:06 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0F6D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:49 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:55:02 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0C4A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:55:05 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 15:55:47 -!- dwave [n=ask@213.236.208.247] has quit ["Be back later"] 15:59:37 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:30 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:03:31 willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:03:46 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:09:39 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:45 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:12:53 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:23 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:16 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 16:16:27 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 16:16:31 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-51-103.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:06 -!- eevar2__ [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:21:16 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:21:24 VardhanDotNet [n=vardhan@122.169.162.34] has joined #lisp 16:21:39 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0F6D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:51 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0F6D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:21:53 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 16:22:39 hi. What is the correct way to join paths .. (concatenate #P"/foo" #P"/bar" ) ? 16:23:04 <_death> how can you "join" two absolute paths? 16:23:16 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:23:52 I wannt to make /foo/bar 16:24:20 <_death> out of what? 16:24:24 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-44.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 16:24:25 VardhanDotNet: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/files-and-file-io.html 0 - look at "filenames" in particular 16:24:43 thanx H4ns. ( I'm trying to load bunch of files from a directory ). 16:24:44 LostMonarch [n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:26:16 VardhanDotNet: You typically use a system definition facility for that. See http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 16:26:22 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:26:32 tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.166.156] has joined #lisp 16:26:35 dwave [n=ask@062249179063.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 16:27:06 tcr: thanx, just what i Needed. 16:27:55 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:24 Adamant [n=Adamant@AASU-101-61.Armstrong.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:29:38 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:04 -!- mtd [n=martin@chop.xades.com] has quit ["leaving"] 16:30:13 mtd [n=martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:02 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:36:31 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.227.1] has joined #lisp 16:36:32 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-55-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:36:56 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-55-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 16:37:57 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:08 laynor [n=laynor@host-62-10-167-39.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 16:40:40 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:41:31 *sigh* 16:41:50 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A26E63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 16:43:07 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:43:48 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:11 -!- reaver___ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:44:45 Evenin' 16:44:52 hello schme 16:45:39 oh hi 16:45:56 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:21 So here is a medium-sized project for someone who has spare time: Make Climacs accept an additional keyword argument :text-style that will set the text style for Climacs panes. This might involve digging into McCLIM a bit because it seems someone is actually overwriting the text style as part of normal operation. 16:47:32 An interesting exercise is to trace medium-text-style and see how many times it is called for each single-character interaction. 16:47:51 You make me wish I had spare time, beach ! 16:48:04 -!- zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has left #lisp 16:48:11 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:48:18 Question of priority I imagine :) 16:48:55 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:49:03 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:51:17 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51:28 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:32 -!- tripwyre [n=sathya@117.193.166.156] has quit [] 16:56:00 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:17 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:57:15 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:02:12 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:03:15 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:03:24 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 17:04:09 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:10:24 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 17:10:29 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:10:57 arrakis_ [n=username@213-156-52-126.fastres.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:12:34 sohail: you own http://uint32t.blogspot.com/2007/12/compiling-common-lisp.html ? Nice Work. 17:13:14 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:41 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@175.sub-70-196-12.myvzw.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:13:46 -!- ayrnieu_ is now known as ayrnieu 17:14:03 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:14:15 hello, does anybody know about a scheme parser generator that handles grammars with inherited attributes? 17:14:43 arrakis_: ask in #scheme 17:16:00 H4ns: I tried but got no answer, I thought I might try here too 17:17:22 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:20:23 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:20:55 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@125.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 17:21:38 hefner pasted "climacs text style" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74725 17:21:45 VardhanDotNet, did it help? 17:22:36 sohail: yup.. only i wasted 30 minutes because i didn't put trailing / in project directory. 17:22:43 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 17:22:44 hehe 17:23:36 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:54 -!- cads is now known as cadsEATETH 17:25:14 -!- arrakis_ [n=username@213-156-52-126.fastres.net] has left #lisp 17:25:25 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@XPLR-TS-10-VAN-67-201-133-74.barrettxplore.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:41 -!- KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:26:43 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.156] has joined #lisp 17:27:03 -!- jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:27:05 KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 17:29:46 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:32:48 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:33:17 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 17:34:29 -!- dwave [n=ask@062249179063.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 17:34:51 hefner: brilliant! 17:34:55 fufie_ [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:58 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:04 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:36:46 KucukMubasir1 [n=Halliday@88.233.126.119] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #lisp 17:38:20 -!- Spaija [n=Spaija@nat/cisco/x-2e9adcead372775a] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:40:21 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:41:14 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:43:47 -!- rotty [n=rotty@80-121-87-114.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:02 hefner: I had no idea it was this well prepared for! 17:48:23 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 17:48:34 rotty [n=rotty@62-47-183-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:49:31 -!- VardhanDotNet [n=vardhan@122.169.162.34] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:51:09 -!- xvx [n=user01@189.228.207.146] has quit ["Saliendo"] 17:51:21 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.207.146] has joined #lisp 17:51:43 -!- KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:41 josemanuel [n=josemanu@125.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:55:12 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:55:25 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit ["leaving"] 17:55:36 schme [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:56:09 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:30 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-253.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has 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has quit ["Valete!"] 18:17:54 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 18:18:44 KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 18:19:26 joachim [n=j@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 18:20:11 skeptomai [n=cb@67.40.185.246] has joined #lisp 18:20:54 -!- kreuter [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:54 kreuter [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:36 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@77.239.34.59] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:31 -!- joachim [n=j@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:55 tomsw [n=user@d54C1CF3A.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:23:55 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:23:56 bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has joined #lisp 18:24:19 -!- Athas 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[n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5c00.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:05 -!- rotty [n=rotty@62-47-183-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:45:20 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 19:45:34 benny` [n=benny@87.122.0.255] has joined #lisp 19:45:41 -!- benny [n=benny@87.122.0.255] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:46:32 jonphilpott [n=user@office4.tmcs.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:11 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:51:57 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-203-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:30 how do I go from (1 2 3) to 1 2 3 ? I know there's a function that does this I just can't remember the name 19:57:00 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:10 Cel: what do you mean by "go from"? 19:57:16 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:57:46 like in a macro I can do ,@(1 2 3) to get the list elements out of the parentheses 19:58:03 so they can be applied as arguments 19:58:20 clhs apply 19:58:21 -!- KucukMubasir1 [n=Halliday@85.102.138.72] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:58:36 *H4ns* kicks the bots 19:58:54 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:55 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:59:17 ok thanks, I know enough to continue :) 20:00:36 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 20:00:49 you answered your own question, Cel :) -> so they can be applied as arguments 20:02:15 heh yeah 20:03:11 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:25 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Operation timed out] 20:04:46 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:56 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:07:56 jao [n=user@20.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:21 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:08:36 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 20:10:33 (values-list '(1 2 3)) -> 1 2 3 20:10:53 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has joined #lisp 20:14:22 -!- skeptomai [n=cb@67.40.185.246] has quit [] 20:16:41 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:52 sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:18:42 qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 20:20:10 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-141-114.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:24:52 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 kreuter [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@209.131.62.113] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 Cryovat [i=isis@akuma.no] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:04 UnwashedMeme [n=nathan@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:18 -!- kreuter [n=kreuter@pool-96-252-14-107.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:27:28 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-156-30.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:13 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 20:30:53 fualo [n=fualo@169.237.219.239] has joined #lisp 20:31:54 I can just never get along with LOOP. :/ 20:32:28 it's pretty ugly sometimes :-\ 20:32:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:33:07 ltbarcly` [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-131-184.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:32 I can never truly understand how if/unless/when clauses work together with looping. 20:34:03 I've resigned my self do having a single do (let .... (if ... 20:34:29 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:35:51 hm. 20:35:57 |kib2| [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:16 tic: have you looked at iterate? 20:36:32 Fade, I've been meaning to. 20:36:45 Fade, but I'd rather just do it with the built-in tools. 20:37:14 loop used to give me gas, but I just came to terms with it. 20:37:27 it was worse when slime didn't indent it correctly. 20:38:03 <|kib2|> Hi, can I have some help : I've installed SBCL+SLIME on a windows machine, but here's my output : http://tinyurl.com/d83z5l 20:38:25 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["reboot"] 20:39:07 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:39:18 |kib2|: your form doesn't return? 20:39:45 <|kib2|> Fade: yes, that's it : no response. 20:39:58 it's strange that you're getting the slime-repl prompt in the *inferior-lisp* buffer 20:40:02 you should have a fresh buffer. 20:40:05 fgtech [i=nemesis@bnc1.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 20:40:09 There's always a question in CL of how much extension makes you comfortable 20:40:10 acl-repl? 20:40:32 segv: aye 20:40:45 no, acl style repl is with numbers 20:40:55 |kib2|: do you have a *slime-repl* buffer at all? 20:41:07 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:07 I have no issues with using external libraries for real problems. But I'm not solving a real problem at the moment, so.. 20:41:58 <|kib2|> segv: I'm checking, but no, can't see it 20:42:21 first, add (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) to .emacs 20:42:33 is there a *messages* buffer? 20:43:02 should be *Messages* 20:43:10 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 20:43:31 <|kib2|> stassats: let me kiss you :) 20:43:37 |kib2|: for some strange reason slime has not finished loading 20:43:41 <|kib2|> stassats: works fine now 20:44:00 <|kib2|> stassats: thanks a lot! 20:44:36 yeah, but you can also replace slime-repl with slime-fancy, which includes slime-repl and more 20:44:54 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:44:55 -!- dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:45:11 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:45:36 skeptomai [n=cb@67.40.185.246] has joined #lisp 20:45:40 <|kib2|> stassats: ok, I'll try that instead. 20:46:14 mrSpec [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 20:46:19 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.174.42] has quit ["DOS never says “EXCELLENT command or filename”"] 20:46:23 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:46:53 <|kib2|> stassats: it's more colorful like this. 20:47:07 yeah, fancy 20:48:52 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Operation timed out] 20:48:54 the colors, duke, the colors! 20:49:05 <|kib2|> segv: :) 20:50:12 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@62-101-93-169.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [] 20:51:59 segv: O Hai! I was actually just thinking of you (weird, huh?) 20:52:22 hi! 20:54:25 how's it going? 20:55:12 <|kib2|> segv: I'm thinking about the reasons SLIME hasn't finished loading : maybe it's because I'm using windows 7 ? 20:55:31 -!- qbg [n=qbg@rn084084.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:55:50 |kib2|: more likely an emacs issue, getting that prompt in the *inferior-lisp* buffer is really really weird. 20:56:48 <|kib2|> segv: ok, and yes : it's really weird. 20:57:26 |kib2|: try ccl or clisp, maybe? 20:57:34 |kib2|: just to isolate the problem further 20:58:03 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 20:58:04 if repl works, there is no problem 20:58:15 <|kib2|> H4ns: yes maybe: that's a good idea. 20:58:47 who needs that *inferior-lisp* buffer 20:59:25 <|kib2|> I was aware SLIME does not like spaces in paths, so I've put SBCL in C:/SBCL and ajusted my $PATH 20:59:51 If I redefine a function whilst in a restart, will it be visible in the top-level? 20:59:51 segv: not bad. How's it with you? 21:00:50 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:19 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 21:02:11 |kib2|: have you entered (+ 2 3) by hand? or copy-and-pasted it? 21:02:22 <|kib2|> stassats: by hand 21:04:25 zorgzorg21 [n=martino@s83-191-235-17.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:05:36 -!- jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 21:07:34 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:07:45 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:48 -!- fualo [n=fualo@169.237.219.239] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:08:44 fualo [n=fualo@169.237.219.239] has joined #lisp 21:09:03 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:09:10 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:10:01 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:12:16 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:12:34 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:12:34 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 21:12:43 Is there a built-in shortcut to update a hash-table with another's content? 21:13:23 tic: (setf this-hash-table that-hash-table) ;) 21:13:36 not setf, update. 21:13:43 extend if you wish. 21:14:03 union? 21:14:09 Yeah. 21:14:11 or (maphash (lambda (k v) (setf (gethash k that-hash-table) v)) this-hash-table) ? 21:14:22 exactly. thanks! 21:14:29 np 21:18:52 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@219.sub-70-197-112.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:57 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:20:07 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:20:08 -!- ayrnieu_ is now known as ayrnieu 21:21:37 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.207.146] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:21:43 user_ [n=user@p5492709B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:44 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:43 chupish [n=sedwards@waffle.aip.org] has joined #lisp 21:26:47 -!- skeptomai [n=cb@67.40.185.246] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:28:39 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.207.146] has joined #lisp 21:31:14 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 21:31:26 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:36:50 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:37:21 weird. I think this actually work.s 21:37:25 skeptomai [n=cb@75-165-99-105.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:45 but I don't think it's possible to write it any uglier and still have it working. (super-lame unification thingy) 21:38:01 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 21:38:49 karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has joined #lisp 21:40:21 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:59 (alexandria:alist-hash-table (union (alexandria:hash-table-alist this) (alexandria:hash-table-alist that) :test #'equal :key #'car)) 21:43:28 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:43:35 stassats: way to go quadratic. 21:43:45 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-79.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:44:17 Newbie question: how to make a string from '(#\a #\b)? 21:44:25 coerce 21:44:41 (coerce '(#\a #\b) 'string) 21:44:57 -!- zorgzorg21 [n=martino@s83-191-235-17.cust.tele2.se] has left #lisp 21:45:04 Bah! I did that first, but I had the arguments swapped. That's what you get for not reading the error message. Thanks! 21:45:32 that's what you get not using slime 21:45:54 *bzzt schrrrrkkk* sorry, bad reception here. 21:46:07 <_death> funny, btw, that sbcl's error report for (string that-sequence) is along the lines of " cannot be _coerced_ to a string." ;) 21:47:36 skeptomai_ [n=cb@75-165-99-105.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:37 minion logs 21:47:37 Hehe. Yeah. 21:47:49 minion: logs 21:47:49 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 21:48:13 What would be an time- and space-efficient two-way hash-table? I want to look up keys based on the values, in addition to values from keys. 21:48:30 tic: I'd just use two hash tables. 21:48:34 -!- skeptomai [n=cb@75-165-99-105.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:48:54 And arbitrarily (or not so arbitrarily) declare one of them to be the "reverse" mapping. 21:49:22 of course you'll also have to deal with the value->key mapping being one to many. 21:49:28 Yeah, that's what I ended up doing, but it feels... wrong. I have a left and a right mapping. With the left mapping being the right one, heh. 21:49:38 pkhuong, luckily, it's a 1:1 mapping. 21:50:09 specifically, it's to see if I can unify two items. It's not sufficient to just look at the keys and say it's OK, I need to know that there hasn't been previously a reverse mapping. 21:50:44 e.g. gymm <-> puff is OK. gymM <-> puff would be OK when going from left to right, but not right to left. 21:51:37 and what you are trying to accomplish with this? 21:52:30 drewc: ping 21:54:02 stassats, nothing in particular, just practicing my Lisp skills by solving problems from the book Programming Challenges. This one's about a simple substitution crypto with a known vocabulary. So it ends up just being about unifying character mappings. 21:54:33 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:55:38 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:00 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:59:00 -!- nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:23 -!- fufie_ [n=stig@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:02:30 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-248.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 22:02:49 nullwork [n=nullwork@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:07 <_death> tic: maybe look into FSet, which has something called a 2-relation, which may be what you're looking for 22:03:31 -!- fualo [n=fualo@169.237.219.239] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:03:35 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:01 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 22:06:08 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:36 -!- tomsw [n=user@d54C1CF3A.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:08:23 Blueghost [n=teddy@65.182.63.9] has joined #lisp 22:09:00 dwave [n=ask@062249176236.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 22:10:48 fualo [n=fualo@169.237.219.239] has joined #lisp 22:11:39 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 22:12:32 _death, I was more thinking if there was something built-in already... but thanks for digging it out! 22:13:31 <_death> well small collections are usually implemented as alists, for which there's `assoc' and `rassoc' 22:13:58 Yeah, it just occurred to me that assoc has a :key argument, doesn't it? 22:14:23 <_death> yes, but how's this relevant? 22:14:24 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:43 You can set the key to pull either the left key or the right key. 22:15:24 <_death> no, I think the key function is applied to either the car or the cdr depending on whether you use `assoc' or `rassoc' 22:15:26 nyef: nope. You're thinking of FIND. 22:15:58 pkhuong: Are you sure? I did a (describe 'assoc), and I see (:KEY (OR FUNCTION SYMBOL)) in the arglist. 22:16:03 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.227.1] has quit [] 22:16:16 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-072-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:30 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:33 nyef: yes, but that won't do what you want. You get the car, not the whole cons. 22:16:48 ... So? 22:17:12 Oh noes, I need to use -another cons-. How horrible! 22:18:08 -!- voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has quit ["goto evilwm;"] 22:18:49 nyef: IIUC, the only data is the pair of keys. What's the point of using an extra cons, if you don't use the cdr? 22:18:53 voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has joined #lisp 22:19:11 <_death> data duplication.. 22:19:31 To make it fit the structure required for assoc, of course. :-P 22:20:25 <_death> the structure that fits assoc also fits rassoc :) 22:20:55 *pkhuong* goes back to C++ code that only compiled on pre 3.0 gcc before his patch. 22:21:16 Aww. And I wanted to ask how warm you think it would be possible to make a cold-core. 22:21:31 I don't understand that part. 22:22:12 Basically, how much of cold-init do you think can be moved into genesis or earlier? 22:22:45 I basically don't understand the bootstrapping process, really (: 22:22:55 Oh well. 22:23:14 (And when are we going to be done with code freeze, anyway?) 22:23:22 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-170-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 22:24:04 sorry, I was going to release during the weekend, but other things intervened 22:24:10 new try tonight, once I get home 22:24:20 Okay, fair enough. 22:24:23 -!- dwave [n=ask@062249176236.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 22:28:17 -!- chupish [n=sedwards@waffle.aip.org] has quit ["leaving"] 22:31:09 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:26 dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.60.206] has joined #lisp 22:34:15 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:34:43 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:37:43 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775717.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:37:43 -!- hugod_ [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279775717.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:36 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5c00.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:38:49 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 22:39:17 -!- user_ [n=user@p5492709B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:41:18 any short and obvious way to get the list of functions that aren't exported and aren't used by anything? 22:41:35 no 22:41:51 it could be done with swank, but i'm lazy 22:42:10 -!- Blueghost [n=teddy@65.182.63.9] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:42:40 spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has joined #lisp 22:43:08 and still not 100% reliably 22:43:19 yeah 22:43:27 but beats grep(1) :) 22:43:34 <_death> 1. no functions are exported 2. things that "aren't used by anything" usually get garbage-collected :) 22:43:50 you know what i mean by 'exported functions' :) 22:43:58 symbols that are fboundp 22:44:17 weirdo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/62226#1 22:44:55 <_death> so they are used, they are contained in the value cell of a symbol 22:45:26 <_death> (apply (read) (read)) 22:45:27 fe[nl]ix, thank you! 22:45:51 _death: hence not 100% reliability 22:45:59 _death, and you know what i mean by "unused" 22:46:10 <_death> weirdo: not really :) 22:46:11 How was it I did a non-local exit, deep from a recursion to the top? 22:46:28 lexical? return-from 22:46:59 does that return to the very first level of recursion? I just want to kill the frame. 22:47:12 -!- |kib2| [n=kib2@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 22:47:15 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:47:15 _death, rassoc/assoc, thanks! that's more like what I want really. 22:47:49 if your block is outside recursion 22:48:12 It's not. :) 22:48:27 -!- Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:48:46 Hrm, nevermind. 22:48:48 make it so 22:48:55 or throw/catch 22:49:02 Kathrin-24^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 22:49:39 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 22:50:28 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.60.206] has quit [] 22:50:31 <_death> (heh, I meant the function cell.) 22:50:49 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:51:12 stassats, it's amazing what working doing customer deliveries does to your brain. I keep forgetting things like base cases for recursion, etc. 22:52:13 i have a good hashtable 22:53:06 here we go. problem solved. forgot to make a fresh set of mappings for each level in the goal finding. 22:53:30 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:53:56 -!- jao [n=user@20.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:48 ok, now i only have to write some tests and docs 22:54:48 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:31 weirdo: is this asdf-system-viewer/editor thingy? 22:58:31 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-134-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 22:59:12 stassats, no, it's toadstool 22:59:16 the pattern matcher 23:01:52 gemelen_ [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-164-25.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 23:04:48 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-82-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:04:53 -!- gemelen [n=shelta@shpd-78-36-166-194.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 23:05:45 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@125.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:12:24 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 23:13:16 weirdo: _death put you straight. Restate what you want in the correct terms, and you will see what you can do about it. 23:14:53 pjb, return a list of unexported functions for which SLIME-WHO-CALLS returns nothing 23:15:05 that's what fe[nl]ix pasted 23:15:29 weirdo: I would check what slime-who-calls does... 23:15:54 weirdo: but again, functions are not exported/unexported!!! 23:16:19 pjb, fbound symbols are 23:16:40 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:16:49 Yes. If you would think with the right terms, usually questions have obvious answers. 23:17:04 what do you use for tests? fiveam? stefil? 23:17:25 ad-hoc. 23:17:43 lisp-unit 23:17:50 sb-rt. 23:18:04 <_death> users 23:18:05 <_death> :) 23:18:08 Heh. 23:18:45 heh, unfortunately that's what going to follow for the code i'm working on now... :| 23:24:43 Genesis generally can't dump structures, can it? 23:24:58 Beyond layouts, that is. 23:26:58 fiveam here 23:29:03 madnificent [n=user@83.101.31.245] has joined #lisp 23:30:08 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:30:43 Hmm, macros expanding to compile-time structures can't be expanded again in-place in Slime.. 23:31:15 is there an idiom for transforming '("a" "b" "c") to "a/b/c" ? 23:31:41 format would be my guess, but perhaps there is something especially for that 23:31:41 (format t "~{~a~^/~}" '("a" "b" "c")) 23:31:50 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 23:31:57 tcr: "compile-time structures"? 23:32:01 s/t/nil/ 23:32:06 stassats: faster than my addition :P that wil lbe the idiom then :) 23:33:33 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:55 nyef: Sorry, I was somewhat incorrect. I mean structures defined by def!struct which are printed unreadably. Look at the expansion of (defstruct foo a b c), you can't use C-c C-m on the %make-structure-instance-macro line 23:34:35 nyef: Anyway I wonder whether those structures in defstructs expansion are only used at compile-time, or end up as literals somewhere. 23:35:58 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:36:17 Oh, neat. There -is- stuff for structures in genesis. 23:37:29 tcr: AIUI, structures need make-load-form methods in order to be dumpable. Though I could be wrong about that. 23:37:55 It's been a while since I've looked at that corner of the spec... or that part of sbcl. 23:38:20 <_death> madnificent: you can also do something like (out-sequence your-list :separator "/") 23:40:18 Yeah, they need make-load-form methods (and there's a special sbcl hack to support that for def!structs prior to PCL being up and running). 23:41:32 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 23:42:59 Hm, I'd have thought they're dumpable as they're printed readably by default 23:43:24 I really don't know. 23:45:51 jsnell: Are you here? 23:46:51 *nyef* notes that def!method is a frightening concept. 23:47:07 _death: nice too, I didn't know that 23:47:22 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:22 <_death> madnificent: of course, you have to implement `out-sequence' :) 23:47:49 _death: That's fairly simple, just limit it to strings and implement it in terms of FORMATTER... :-P 23:48:25 <_death> nyef: sure, if it's limited for this functionality 23:48:41 <_death> as long as it hides format line noise :) 23:49:16 Actually, you don't even need FORMATTER, you can just use FORMAT. 23:50:37 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:46 (defmacro out-sequence (list &key (separator " ")) `(format nil ,(format nil "~~{~~A~~^~S~~}" separator) list)) or something. 23:50:48 I don't mind the format noise, it is rather clear that the list is being printed... the hows can be found when reading it 23:51:03 apparently i have to restart emacs after updating slime, indentation broke. brb. 23:51:13 -!- weirdo [n=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:42 "Why yes, after updating a large pile of elisp code you -do- need to arrange for it to be reloaded." 23:51:46 <_death> nyef: why a macro? 23:51:59 tcr pasted "PUNCTUATE" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74750 23:52:20 a.) It's what came to mind. b.) How else would you get the separator in there? 23:52:29 <_death> a function can do the same 23:52:42 somehow with ~? 23:52:43 <_death> with the added benefit of evaluating separator at runtime :) 23:53:19 weirdo [n=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:53:19 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:53:26 <_death> s/at runtime// 23:53:29 nyef, you probably want another unquote, or simply (defun out-sequence (list &key (separator " ")) (format nil (format nil ... separator) list)). 23:53:55 Right, something like that. 23:56:49 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:58:51 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@freecode-project/hacker/spiderbyte] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"]