00:00:18 <_death> nyef: I think there's still the case where I get FIN while having pending send requests.. 00:00:31 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 00:00:51 _death: So set a flag that requests that it be closed after the sends complete, or just dump the send buffer. 00:01:12 nvm, the site explains it 00:02:26 <_death> nyef: well the first is a hack I wouldn't need to hack if the handler was re-checked by the dispatcher, and I don't understand the second - I still have the write handler set 00:03:41 rullie: mod_lisp is optional. You only need it if you want apache. Even then, i usually mod_proxy to a lisp web server rather than mod_lisp. 00:03:44 <_death> the sends shouldn't complete anyway, since that's what FIN means, doesn't it? 00:03:46 rpg_ [n=rpg@71-220-76-86.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:15 -!- rpg_ is now known as rpg 00:05:45 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@178.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 00:07:03 drewc: i kinda want to use mod_lisp since we have the whole apache thing going already 00:07:04 how do i/ is it possible at all to - add a slot to a class at runtime? 00:07:16 and i'd like 1 switch for all of it 00:07:36 -!- ice4 [n=ice4@host217-42-101-191.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:07:50 trebor_home: use the MOP, or (eval `(defclass ...)) 00:08:38 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70cb0e.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:08:58 pjb: what happens to instances of that class - do they get that slot magically? or do i have to modify them via mop, too? 00:09:09 They get it magically. 00:09:24 Be sure to specify an :initform 00:09:56 and the magic is, of course, extensible magic. 00:10:12 pjb: sorry, to ask again - i only need to eval the updated defclass? 00:10:21 trebor_home: yes. 00:11:02 *trebor_home* has no words 00:11:09 thanks pjb. 00:11:28 Try: (progn (defclass a () ((x :initform 0 :accessor a-x))) (defparameter *o* (make-instance 'a)) (defclass a () ((x :initform 0 :accessor a-x) (y :initform 42 :accessor a-y))) (inspect *o*)) 00:11:43 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-230-134.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:10 asm4fun [n=wh@ppp-94-67-208-203.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 00:12:39 -!- jak3 [n=cano@c-66-177-236-251.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:27 -!- asm4fun [n=wh@ppp-94-67-208-203.home.otenet.gr] has left #lisp 00:14:38 pjb: cool, thanks. 00:19:17 -!- drafael|asleep is now known as drafael 00:19:30 but one will not be able to change inheritance-dependencies by (re-)evaluating defclass-forms - i think (testing nevertheless) ... there have to be limits in magic! 00:19:43 ;) 00:20:02 Are you sure about that? 00:20:16 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:20:34 not at all - therefore i expand pjb's snippet.. 00:21:35 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:23:33 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483BF58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:24:58 dstatyvka [i=ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 00:25:54 even that works .... 00:26:07 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:27 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:28:56 amazing. so one can switch between bottom-top and top-bottom coding every time needed! perfect (i am just in such a situation). 00:29:47 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ee3432f5cf4bd5d1] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:29:50 knightblader [n=da465415@monroe.cs.ucf.edu] has joined #lisp 00:30:10 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 00:30:30 -!- knightblader [n=da465415@monroe.cs.ucf.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:53 knightblader [n=da465415@monroe.cs.ucf.edu] has joined #lisp 00:34:28 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:32 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 00:37:57 bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has joined #lisp 00:38:39 -!- bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.123] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:27 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:40:39 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-194.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:41:15 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 00:42:43 bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:43:10 -!- bombshel2er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:40 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:37 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:50:14 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:50:21 <_death> fe[nl]ix: oh and btw the docstring for `make-socket' is weird: it seems to consistently confuse address-family and type 00:51:57 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:51:58 how so ? 00:52:20 <_death> keeps associating datagram/stream with address-family and internet/local with type 00:53:02 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:56:36 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE00222d13276c-CM00222d132768.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:57:37 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp7-38.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:58:35 lol 00:58:45 _death: fixed 00:59:28 <_death> ;) 00:59:38 rullie [n=rullie@99.225.70.71] has joined #lisp 01:00:56 Oh nice youre talking about sockets. Does anyone know why (listen) does not work on ssl stream? 01:01:08 I use cl+ssl. 01:01:59 And calling listen blocks or just behaves wierd.. 01:02:20 -!- rpg [n=rpg@71-220-76-86.mpls.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:04:21 <_death> mait: if you look in streams.lisp you see that the peeked-byte slot never seems to get set to anything but nil 01:06:01 -!- dysinger_ [n=tim@166.129.10.171] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:25 -!- dat [n=dthomp@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:06:52 Ok. I'll study the code there. 01:06:58 Thanks! 01:07:30 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:12:14 _death: Are you saying that 'listen shouldn't work on ssl-stream? 01:12:24 Or am i missing something... 01:13:02 -!- nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:37 <_death> I am saying that in the current state of implementation I don't see how `listen' wouldn't block or return nil 01:15:04 jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:06 I see. 01:18:46 -!- fualo_ [n=fualo@169.237.219.239] has quit [] 01:21:24 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 01:22:22 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:25 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:51 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:24:27 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:28:11 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:31 rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-6fcf50f36179f8f6] has joined #lisp 01:28:41 rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:36 -!- rpg_ [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:31:29 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-114-10.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:33:46 -!- spec[afk] [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c Ya"] 01:37:58 -!- jli [n=jli@adsl-074-229-201-181.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 01:38:12 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C271.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:38:37 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-33-234.ucr.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:07 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:45:29 -!- emss [i=emss@d118-75-37-96.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:21 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-129-164.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 01:48:53 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-14-220.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:48:56 -!- abend [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit ["Quitting..."] 01:56:22 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:11 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:58:29 sirob [n=boris@83.212.104.23] has joined #lisp 01:58:46 -!- sirob [n=boris@83.212.104.23] has left #lisp 01:59:21 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 01:59:55 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:58 -!- mait [n=user@genyv.rot.sgsnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:02:39 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:06:04 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06:37 abend [n=sasha@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:32 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-129-164.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:23:51 -!- knightblader [n=da465415@monroe.cs.ucf.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:23:55 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:18 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 02:29:58 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:33:12 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:26 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:35:18 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 02:36:18 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:15 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-201-33-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 02:42:11 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16A1CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:44:53 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-059-022-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:46:19 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-211-134-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:56 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:08 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-24-216-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:49:31 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:13 mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 02:52:11 Hello. What is the best way to use SBCL to create symlinks (symbolic) on linux? 02:52:19 I don't care if it isn't portable. 02:53:46 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 02:54:45 There might be a function to do so in sb-posix. 02:55:27 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:33 If there isn't, I would either use run-program (yeah, right) or I'd find and bind whichever syscall does the job (far more my style). 02:55:39 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:51 nyef, where would that be documented? I read the sb-posix section of the SBCL manual and it doesn't seem to list the functions there. 02:56:03 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Types.html#Types I don't think there is. 02:56:26 Well, man -k symlink suggests that the syscall required is symlink(2). 02:57:25 Well. And there it is. Thanks. 02:57:30 A quick grep -i symlink controb/sb-posix/*.lisp shows the existance of sb-posix:symlink (mentioned several times in posix-tests.lisp, and once in a define-call form in interface.lisp)... 02:57:41 Err... contrib, not controb. 02:58:54 And it works just fine. Sweet. 02:59:11 So now you know, and now you know how to find out for yourself. 02:59:26 I trust we won't be seeing you ask the same question about hard links in future? ^_- 02:59:31 Dig around in contrib/sb-posix? 02:59:49 Ugh, no :-) 02:59:52 hmmm 03:00:47 I think it would be nice to write a tiny library to make using sbcl for system scripting a little nicer. I wonder how finished sb-posix is... 03:01:18 I'm writing a wiki farmer! 03:02:24 sykopomp: Oh, just write a perl 5 interpreter in sbcl and have done. 03:02:34 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-134-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:58 nyef: meh 03:03:08 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A051C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:03:13 sykopomp: try fe[nl]ix's iolib instead 03:03:17 Actually, that might be amusing to see. 03:03:37 or try perl6 and take on pugs 03:04:41 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:04:55 persi [n=user@ec2-75-101-161-170.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:56 -!- persi [n=user@ec2-75-101-161-170.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 03:08:46 -!- rread [n=rread@nat/sun/x-6fcf50f36179f8f6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:22:15 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:25:17 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:26:35 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-236-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:26:51 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-236-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:07 -!- sandGorgon [n=user@122.162.142.236] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:32:21 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:42:21 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 03:42:56 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:04 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:48:59 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-54-10.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:36 'lo 03:51:30 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:07 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.252.15] has joined #lisp 03:54:58 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:57:29 kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has joined #lisp 03:57:39 -!- kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:58:28 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 04:01:34 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:01:49 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:07:30 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:09:06 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:00 -!- Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:12:31 -!- underflow [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:15:22 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:21:26 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:26:30 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:28:54 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:34:46 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 04:34:51 -!- neobakuer [n=neo@unaffiliated/neobakuer] has quit ["leaving"] 04:36:21 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:38:45 -!- rullie [n=rullie@99.225.70.71] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 04:44:41 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:29 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:47:09 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-72-88.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 04:47:43 -!- beach` is now known as beach 04:48:06 Good morning. 04:49:30 morning beach 04:50:02 hihi 04:52:15 good morning, beach 04:55:35 ianmcorvidae: hey, ian 04:58:33 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:58:50 morning 04:59:21 Any exciting projects going on? 05:00:06 define "exciting" :) 05:00:13 sort of, but I tried to actually use it and became very unexcited and underwhelmed :P 05:02:22 beach: I did the newbie thing and tried to write this even though I know nothing of the topic.. http://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple/tree/master 05:02:36 -!- Xlas [n=28@c-4b3e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 05:02:56 it's a fun toy, but trying to port something else I had written in CLOS to it was very disappointing :( 05:03:14 Hmm, I see. 05:04:19 "prototype-based subset of CLOS" is a less groan-inducing description 05:05:17 What didn't work out about it? 05:06:02 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:22 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:06:26 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:13 well, a few things like more slot options might be nice, and I can add those, but it performs like a cow :-\ 05:07:43 and not like a sheep? 05:07:45 on the bright side, the basic functionality works quite nicely (multiple inheritance, multiple dispatch, auto-genned accessors, etc) 05:08:07 felideon: Cowple looks too much like "Cowpie", though. 05:09:23 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E45541.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:50 I don't really know how to make performance faster without either making every single object semi-persistent, or having a non-portable mess of weak pointers :( 05:10:35 it has to precalculate the entire precedence list in order to do anything -- slot accesses or message dispatch. 05:11:04 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:11:37 and the only way to even memoize that list is to be able to keep track of changes and inform all descendants as well. 05:11:43 Did you try all the usual tricks: caching stuff, dynamic recompilation, special-casing, etc.? 05:12:16 I can't really do it on the live objects unless I pretty much prevent them from being garbage collected 05:12:40 -or- I use sbcl's weak pointers and have some bizarre mess in the background making sure it deletes them when appropriate. 05:13:12 considering I wrote this for the end-purpose of using it in a fully persistent system, though, I might just forget about having a 'standalone' version and go straight for persistence. 05:13:37 with that promise, I can pretty much go wild with the usual tricks :) 05:14:05 Know you know that such a thing is complicated to write. 05:14:14 yeah, no kidding! 05:15:04 I can't seem to settle on a project I can actually finish, it's unfortunate. I should really find something I can do in a week, maybe two. 05:16:59 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:17:01 sykopomp: perhaps it helps to know that you are not the only one with this problem. 05:17:02 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:41 sykopomp: personally, I need a collaborator in order to keep me interested. 05:17:59 beach: is there some wisdom as to how to avoid the overreaching-problem? 05:18:13 not that I know. 05:18:15 sykopomp: cut it in 1-2 week chunks. 05:19:29 pkhuong: but that still doesn't prevent the problem of choosing-to-do-something-too-big 05:20:12 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1CDD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:20:36 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D1E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:02 I don't see that as a problem. Losing motivation midway and never finishing anything seems to be the actual issue, imo. 05:22:15 so pacing is more the skill that's worth working on, you think? 05:22:22 I tend to agree with pkhuong 05:22:36 that's a good point, yeah. 05:23:07 As I said, a good collaborator helps a lot. 05:23:39 And sometimes the best way to find one is to actually start the project. :) 05:23:52 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47067.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:24:42 thom__ [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:29 I've never been lucky enough to find a collaborator for anything I've worked on. I sort of found one for another project, but he only really talks about maybe helping, perhaps. 05:25:38 sykopomp: and just the organisational/motivational trick of chopping up tasks in concrete objectives, so that you can see progress regularly (in the form of working features and a checked off task on your TODO) 05:26:32 pkhuong: I've sort-of been doing that for this. I think it really has helped. I should do it more formally :) 05:31:37 this channel has been quiet for five minutes now 05:32:30 how quickly can you all explain to me the stuff you don't like about clojure? (aside from "it's on the JVM," that is) 05:33:11 ozy`: who's this ``you''? 05:33:18 y'all 05:33:19 the channel 05:33:26 whoever feels like talking 05:33:32 ozy`: I haven't seen a lot of hate for clojure on here. I'm sure some people might have reservations, but that's certainly not a rule here. There's a lot of people in this channel :) 05:33:58 ozy`: although asking about something like that tends to be quite inflammatory. 05:34:50 sykopomp: I haven't heard -any- criticisms of clojure from anyone but Paul Graham. I finally got restless and decided that if I'd find some anywhere, I'd find it here.... 05:34:51 :p 05:35:10 PG criticizes everything that isn't Arc 05:35:16 ozy`: he critizes Clojure? 05:35:19 (if he hasn't criticized arc already) 05:35:47 where is pg's criticism of clojure ? 05:37:16 felideon: he scoffed at the integration with java libraries, IIRC, with some comment along the lines of "if you need some other language's libraries, that just means you're working in a language that isn't perfect" 05:37:37 it was a lot more soft-spoken and passive-agressive than that, but you know. that's PG. 05:37:43 i see 05:37:56 ozy`: that's sort of a hilarious comment. 05:37:58 as for where it is, I forget whether it was on the arc forum or Y Combinator 05:38:25 well maybe the point of Clojure is not to create a perfect language. It's probably to createa practical Lisp for the corporate Java-infested world. 05:39:50 sykopomp: he's spectacularly detached from reality in some respects... moreso as time goes on, it seems 05:40:01 *beach* feels lucky not to have to deal with that world too much. 05:40:07 i dont much like clojure myself 05:40:25 but it sure beats arc senseless 05:41:00 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:46 (I kinda wish I'd been part of the lisp community when he released arc... the only way I can imagine it is as if Obama, upon being inaugurated in front of the hopeful millions, had suddenly started giving a speech about making waffles for the basement of the white house, and how it told him to kill his dog) 05:43:18 that is an interesting metaphor. 05:44:32 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:57 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:45:01 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:45:03 -!- KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:45:48 indeed 05:48:01 I'm trying to write a function or macro (I've tried both ways, unsuccessfully) to help me abstract the following sample code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/74630 05:48:25 so, the values on the right side of the dotted lists should be passed into the function/macro 05:48:59 should I try this with a function, or with a macro? With the macro it got kind of messy playing with backquotes and commas. 05:49:18 if you're already quoting it, a function should be fine 05:49:34 well, sort of 05:49:44 felideon: do you know what the usual steps to writing a macro are? 05:50:03 yeah I dont know. I get an error when I created a function, but when I manually run the code with sample data it works 05:50:07 PCL has a pretty good outline of them (basically the same outline I've read in two -other- books) 05:50:12 sykopomp: yeah in PCL. 05:50:27 sykopomp: so pretty much I have the code I want generated. 05:50:41 which is a good start i guess 05:50:59 you want a sample call, and you want a generated code. From there, it's just a matter of grokking macros :) 05:51:06 -!- gcopenhaver [n=greg@c-71-206-116-36.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:51:08 which I don't think is as simple as it sounds at first :( 05:53:18 good point 05:53:23 alright I annotated the paste 05:53:28 with the sample call 05:53:38 I was playing around with macroexpand-1 and just couldn't get it right 05:55:48 actually I'm not sure I need the quote in the list in that call 05:56:25 not with a macro, no 05:56:36 k 05:57:50 felideon: what I think you want is some helper functions in your macro that turn that list of dotted lists into (list (cons a b) (cons a b)) 05:58:06 so you probably don't even need the dots in the macro 05:58:18 you can have the macro spit out (list a b) or (cons a b), depending on what you want. 05:58:21 hmm 05:58:56 good idea. let me try that. 05:59:43 -!- chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:00:49 felideon: so, (defun canonicalize-stuff (stuff) `(cons (car stuff) (cadr stuff))), and then you have something like `(list ,@(mapcar #'canonicalize-stuff) whole-list-of-stuff) 06:01:41 err `(cons ,(car stuff) ,(cadr stuff)) or something, I think 06:01:45 I'm confusing myself now 06:02:05 ok. I see what you mean though. 06:02:15 wouldnt have thought of the mapcar 06:02:58 I totally screwed up the parens there, too :) 06:03:15 lol 06:03:38 felideon: that's basically what closette does, for CLOS slots, and I finally grokked macros after playing around with stuff like defclass >_> 06:05:17 cool 06:09:50 godau 06:10:11 hello schme :) 06:10:17 schme: hi! 06:10:35 hmmm.. 06:10:45 It would seem one of my clocks is wrong. 06:10:58 What a strange thing. So what is new in lisp land? 06:11:10 sheeples and cowpies 06:11:42 aaah 06:11:49 cowples and sheepies 06:13:04 :P 06:13:42 the topic of "cowpies" versus "cowples" was momentarily covered. 06:15:51 *hefner* wonders if sbcl optimizes apply #'concatenate, or if there's a trick he's forgetting 06:22:02 is lisp considered a von neumann language? 06:22:26 buh? 06:22:54 it's considered a McCarthy language 06:23:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_programming_languages 06:23:31 elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has joined #lisp 06:23:32 john backus wrote about liberating programming from von neumann style 06:28:10 the_unmaker: did you read that paper? 06:28:49 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:29:02 lisp can be very different, when using the functional style. Often it isn't very different from the "Von Neumann" style, however, as many features are quite imperative. 06:29:17 tessier__ [n=treed@wsip-68-15-4-27.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:32 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit ["leaving"] 06:30:49 I'll take a Von Neumann language over a Harvard language 06:33:48 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:19 heh 06:38:42 the parameters to a defmacro call are not evaluated correct? 06:39:00 that depends on the macro 06:39:06 ah 06:39:31 thing is, when i do if I do: (macroexpand-1 `(post-blog-entry ,(get-universal-time) "hello world" '("THIS" "THAT") "hello, world! content")) 06:39:32 felideon: not before the macro function is invoked. 06:39:41 i get exactly what I want. the actualy universal time 06:40:17 so how do I make a call to my macro, but pass it the parameter already evaluated 06:40:30 it isn't quite that simple 06:40:51 do you want it to run when compiling, or loading (from fasl, etc) ... 06:41:07 I don't know if you want to necessarily evaluate get-universal-time during macro expansion... 06:41:11 or when the expanded thing gets run 06:42:02 hmm 06:42:05 ok here's what i have so far http://paste.lisp.org/display/74630#3 06:42:24 it works except when I use (get-universal-time) in the macro call 06:43:36 mle: did you? 06:44:10 years ago. skimmed it just a moment ago when you asked. 06:44:22 worth looking at ^_^ 06:44:48 it's linked from the wikipedia article you listed 06:45:13 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:45:45 clhs eval-when 06:45:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 06:46:04 felideon: check that out, maybe? 06:47:34 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 06:47:48 felideon: write a regular function that takes sexps as input and returns a sexp, get it working as a regular function (and forget about it being a macro), and everything should be clear 06:47:59 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:49:36 pkhuong: alright. i'll try writing it as a function again. I was gettingweird errors there, but I guess I'll have to address those. 06:53:09 kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:37 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:02:57 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 07:14:05 -!- ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:16:34 I guess no one ever released a free FP interpreter / compiler 07:16:46 [of john backus's FP language] 07:20:14 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.174.42] has joined #lisp 07:21:56 cool I think it worked 07:23:04 thanks pkhuong, you gave me the idea of accepting sexps 07:23:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/74630#4 07:24:41 question: If I have a custom deffoo macro (like perhaps defclass*), is there a way to customize lisp-mode to treat it as it does other built-in defs? 07:24:59 without having to crawl through the lisp-mode code and patch it by hand?... 07:26:00 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:26:20 what do you mean by "treat it"? 07:26:24 give it coloring? 07:26:36 or what else 07:27:27 yes. Give it color, basically :) 07:27:32 all this green is getting dull. 07:28:29 it already does it for anything that starts with define- :-\ 07:28:52 true 07:35:00 sykopomp: btw thanks for the canonicalize field idea 07:35:07 helper function 07:35:20 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:35:21 no problem. I would've told you to write a function, but I thought you wanted your macro to be fancier than that :P 07:36:21 hehe yeah 07:36:53 got too complicated though, I guess 07:40:40 someone with time in their hands can achieve a little immortality in lisp hackerdom by helping with this http://pleac.sourceforge.net/ 07:41:20 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:41:27 i think there are more lispers than users of rexx, guile or groovy 07:42:16 fusss: I see posix scripting 07:42:23 Factor has the best "exchange two variables without using a temporary" example :-P 07:42:47 I could do chapter 20 in half an hour 07:42:54 19 as well 07:43:27 17 is spread across the usocket test cases 07:43:28 fusss: you mean (rotatef ...)? 07:44:05 sykopomp: in factor's just SWAP. forth languages are optimized for exchange two variables without using a temporary, don't go there. 07:45:20 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 07:45:36 #14 is utterly useless, DBM? FFS! 07:45:59 I initially didn't really want to try factor after having a bad run-in with slava at the same time that I first learned about it. But once my head cooled and I read stuff, it sounds like it would be a fun thing to play aorund with. 07:46:56 fusss: Perl is so ugly. Why does it have to be so ugly? :( 07:47:05 it's the price of having syntax, I guess. 07:50:01 perl is a DSL for unix administration; it doesn't pretend to be anything else. 07:51:14 tell that to hardcore perl people, particularly those that are really into perl6 >:( 07:58:04 That's a bit funny. 07:58:17 in #lisp they say factor is a forth, in #concatenative they say factor is a lisp. 07:58:46 Now back to mcclim :) 07:58:50 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-24-64.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:02:03 fusss: I'm not so sure about REXX... 08:02:56 *fusss* hopes to never ever ever attempt to "get traffic for a website". soul sucking dull piece of shit. 08:03:50 p_l: have you been hanging out at the pensioner's cafe again? don't count the old bastards, there are more Lispers than IBM-trash. 08:04:05 benny [n=benny@i577A0C45.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:18 fusss: REXX was used in more places, though with slight variations :) 08:04:48 *p_l* wonders at how AmigaOS somehow forgets to die 08:05:41 well, if you're not in freenode then you don't exist. 08:06:05 interesting definition 08:10:31 deluxe paint nostalgia keeps it alive. 08:11:10 or search engine optimization 08:11:11 lol 08:11:27 my idea: a digg liek site for products 08:11:34 voted up or down in each category 08:11:38 what you guys think? 08:11:47 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-153.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:12:00 I think ideas are worthless unless you actually execute them. 08:12:20 (eql the_unmaker gavino)? I can't quite recall. 08:13:08 o' oh! 08:13:40 Well that was bad. 08:13:57 googling amigaos somehow got the secret of monkey island music stuck in my head. 08:13:59 I promise to behave. 08:14:12 Thanks p_l. 08:14:29 schme: That was unexpected result :D 08:15:20 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #lisp 08:20:33 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 08:20:44 schme: interesting connection there 08:21:01 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:26:34 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:48 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:32:54 Hello 08:34:17 Hello MrSpec 08:35:56 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-54-10.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:36:03 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 08:36:14 _death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 -!- mitja [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:37:23 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:32 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-24-64.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:50:47 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:53:21 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:53:32 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:53:46 nite all 08:53:57 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:58:54 good night 09:01:41 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:04:13 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 09:09:21 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:09:37 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 09:13:23 malumalu 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connection] 10:49:27 phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 10:49:28 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 10:52:39 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 10:56:28 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:03:04 reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 11:06:00 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 11:08:55 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-8.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:17 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:09:30 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:12:21 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:14:09 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:14:53 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:15:07 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:17:31 http://www.ps.uni-sb.de/alice/ 11:18:29 the_unmaker: Please don't give us URLs like that without saying what it is and what you have to say about it. 11:20:00 I am intrigued by the differences in programming paradigms 11:20:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function-level_programming contrast of functional vs function-level programming... 11:20:51 <_8david> the_unmaker: enough already 11:21:09 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-24-64.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:21:12 <_8david> (also, good morning to the rest of the channel) 11:21:20 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-248-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:48 Good morning _8david 11:23:53 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:24:12 <_8david> beach: will you be in milano for els? 11:24:23 _8david: yes, I will. 11:24:26 and you? 11:25:20 <_8david> Probably, yes. Just ordered an "italian in 30 days" book this week. :-) 11:25:35 That should do it. 11:27:30 -!- jao [n=user@20.Red-83-39-133.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:27:57 <_8david> haven't entirely decided what to see in the us yet, so should probably plan that first 11:29:16 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 11:29:37 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:31:36 *beach* wonders whether it is practical to take the train to Milan. 11:35:04 -!- bhz- [n=rack@cpe-065-190-059-116.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [] 11:36:19 only 17 hours 11:36:22 :) 11:36:26 Not too bad! 11:37:15 *tic* spent 28 hours on a bus the other week. 11:37:51 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 11:38:08 msingh [n=user@203.171.123.8] has joined #lisp 11:38:37 <_8david> "only" 12 hours from here, and three stops. No thanks. :-) 11:38:48 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 11:40:58 are you guys professors? 11:41:43 Yes, each and every one of us. 11:42:09 I profess heaps 11:42:33 patchwork [n=user@dsl093-174-240.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:18 Hey, when I checkout slime from the cvs repo as anonymous, what is the login password? I can't find it on the site 11:43:34 Does anyone know? 11:43:45 You don't need any 11:44:02 copy the command line on the main page. 11:45:10 Ah gotcha, yeah thanks 11:45:28 *patchwork* hangs head sheepishly 11:47:22 <_8david> the password is "anonymous", hence the double anonymous:anonymous in the cvsroot 11:48:03 Yeah I was going off the video, and he types the password rather than putting it in the call like that 11:48:10 morning 11:48:28 And I hear the guy typing 11:48:57 he must be a developer 11:49:01 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@22.sub-70-196-201.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:49:10 hello Krystof 11:49:55 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 11:51:57 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:53:25 voidpointer [n=voidpoin@unaffiliated/voidpointer] has joined #lisp 12:00:31 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:12 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016246184.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:01:12 phytovor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-26-168.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:44 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:14:28 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-30-50.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 12:14:35 -!- realtime [i=sabbath@189.72.27.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:14:40 realtime [i=sabbath@189.72.27.133] has joined #lisp 12:16:32 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:17:42 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:19:07 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:19:10 b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:20:50 doxtor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-20-119.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:04 gdmfsob [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:08 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:22:28 -!- b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 12:22:43 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:24:17 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-113-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:17 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-248-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:24:44 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 12:26:49 zzach [n=root@p5087021B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:33 dwave [n=ask@062016246184.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 12:30:51 ferada [n=user@f054014123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:29 Lou__ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 12:32:20 nha [n=prefect@137-64.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:33:52 chessweb [n=chatzill@f048230095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:16 -!- chessweb [n=chatzill@f048230095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 12:40:08 ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-157-24.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:41:02 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:04 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:41:04 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:41:04 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:41:23 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:41:55 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:42:49 workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:43:22 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 12:47:37 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16923E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:48:25 LostMonarch [n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:57:42 Hmm... I can run slime-connect to my remote machine, but it doesn't drop into the repl. Supposedly this should happen automatically. 12:57:57 But I try to exit and says I am connected 12:58:04 Any way to start the repl manually? 12:58:13 Or am I missing a config setting somewhere? 12:58:18 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:01 is there (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) in your config? 13:02:34 I have a (slime-setup). Does that replace it? 13:03:26 Ah yes, thanks! 13:04:41 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:06:50 matley [n=matley@83.224.164.150] has joined #lisp 13:07:54 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:14:09 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:01 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 13:23:37 Hi all. I have a dumb lisp question. :) Does anyone know on SBCL how compiling functions interacts with threads? That is, suppose I have two possible functions for my server so when I want to switch mode I would like to just compile the second function under the name of the driver function? 13:24:05 Will the that just cause the whole thing to crash, or will the update be picked up by all threads that call that function? 13:24:07 phytovor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-0-117.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:10 kiuma_ [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:25:33 -!- kiuma_ is now known as kiuma 13:25:48 hello 13:26:24 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:26:36 Xlas [n=28@c-e53e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:28:28 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:28:41 lispm [n=joswig@e177121080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:49 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 I've seen that metatilities reimplements/imports many other packages, for example it implements much of cl-fad, but I don't find something equivalent to cl-fad:delete-directory-and-files ? 13:29:42 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 13:29:56 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Client Quit] 13:30:14 sould I use cl-fad anyway if I want that function ? 13:31:03 if you want to use that function, use that function 13:31:17 jbjohns: I tried this: (defun foo () (write-line "1")) (defun bar () (sleep 10) (foo)) (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (bar))) (defun foo () (write-line "5")) 13:31:38 jbjohns: and the thread running bar prints 5 13:31:58 jbjohns: If that is what you 13:32:01 erg 13:32:01 packages are not per thread in sbcl, are they? 13:32:04 're wondering. 13:32:15 I don't think so. 13:32:22 well, what I'm writing is kind of a web server 13:32:51 so on requests the behavior is one way if there is only one handler, but if more handlers are added then it has to be more sophisticated 13:33:33 rather then do a check for every handle I was going to just do: (compile 'handle-request #'handle-with-multi-handlers) 13:33:50 Ok. 13:33:53 something like that (I know I know, premature optimization, etc., but the whole point of this is to be fast) 13:34:26 It would seem to me that it would work. 13:34:40 -!- eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Forlater kanalen"] 13:34:57 I'm just hoping it has a kind of Smalltalk behavior: threads that are already in the old function just run as normal, but all new connections would go through the new handler. I would expect it to, I would expect the assigment of the function to be atomic 13:35:31 and even if it isn't (e.g. update symbol, then update function pointer, or something) the "old" function is still there 13:35:33 eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:52 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:00 I reckon stuff that was already "in the function" would keep going 'til it returned. 13:36:17 and everything new would just use the new shit. 13:36:21 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:36:39 But hey maybe not :) 13:36:41 -!- kpreid___ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 13:37:02 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:16 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-69-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:38:55 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Success] 13:40:04 you should be concerned about symbols, not functions 13:40:12 jbjohns: (defun bar () (sleep 10) (write-line "12")) (make-thread (lambda () (bar)) (defun bar () (write-line "7")) <= that works as expected. 13:40:20 (ie. "12") 13:42:24 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 13:44:51 ok, cool thanks. I haven't gotten SBCL out to my linux server yet (developing on windows atm), but I guess at least there is no "never ever do this! NEVER do this!" from SBCL eh? 13:45:44 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:00 G'morning all. 13:47:52 So, I'm looking over the source for genesis, and I notice the #!+#.(cl:if ...) above the two definitions of the bvref-word accessors. And I just have to wonder, why not just either #.(intern (format nil "BVREF-~D" sb!vm:n-word-bits)) or use a macrolet? 13:49:27 Arkiz [n=ask@200.209.169.18] has joined #lisp 13:49:39 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [No route to host] 13:53:21 jbjohns: There doesn't seem to be. :) It all seems a bit.. not so well documented.. so I have no idea if you're supposed to do that or not though. 13:57:28 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:01:13 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:01:14 Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:48 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has left #lisp 14:03:06 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:03:31 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:18 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:00 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@247.sub-70-197-106.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:54 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:13:26 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:37 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 14:14:11 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:15:52 workthrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 jbjohns, depending on what you're doing #' and ' differ; http://paste.lisp.org/display/74635 .. defmethod is different also 14:16:57 i mean the "dispatch" happens at different times or in different ways 14:17:12 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:17:39 not sure if that adds anything to what you're asking about here tho 14:17:45 lnostdal: It just seemed that compile wants the symbol to compile the function under and optionally the function to compile 14:18:24 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Client Quit] 14:19:10 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:19:17 So I'm guessing if I have a function 'handle that gets called in a server loop, and I later compile some other function under that symbol I would expect all those functions to call the new code 14:19:55 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:23:25 yeah, it's very easy to test this stuff by playing around in a temp. buffer .. have a thread with a loop that funcalls some symbol, then re-define the function bound to that symbol as it loops in the background .. sleep .. funcall sleep .. funcall .. etc. 14:23:53 nvm .. i see someone's posted some examples like that already :} 14:25:33 if you lose track of the reference to the thread you can get hold of it via sb-thread:list-all-threads .. then kill it sb-thread:terminate-thread 14:26:51 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-196.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:27:22 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:27:30 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:28:44 ManateeL` [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:29:14 -!- ManateeL` [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:30:41 ManateeL` [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:32:18 -!- ManateeL` [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:12 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:33:17 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:33:41 Note that using terminate-thread is inherently unsafe. 14:33:49 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has joined #lisp 14:34:19 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.210.52] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:34:29 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 14:35:08 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:37:07 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-248-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 VisezTrance [n=daniel@unaffiliated/viseztrance] has joined #lisp 14:40:17 I was wondering; tried searching google for "lisp tutorial" (without the quotes); almost all results on the first page have a warnings "This site may harm your computer" 14:40:21 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 14:40:51 i think google is broken 14:41:06 which is kind of, erm, an unique event? 14:41:20 Yeah, that top hit is for PCL. 14:41:33 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:42 this is as as much as "the internet is broken" as it has been for a few years for me :) 14:41:47 even the gigamonkeys book is flagged as malware 14:42:34 I also note that I get a timeout if I try clicking on the warning link. 14:43:06 yeah, sure, because everyone does that now 14:43:24 That's actually fairly reliable. See if those sites have been hacked to include a javascript like like fgg.js or something. 14:45:26 Zhivago: no. 14:45:43 clhs ~| 14:45:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cad.htm 14:45:51 Zhivago: for me, it is sparkfun.com that is flagged as containing malware and sparkfun.com uses ga.js and sparkfun.js 14:46:01 but maybe ga.js is malware now? 14:46:36 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:40 for what it is worth, all my search results can damage my computer, according to google. 14:46:50 Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing for all search results. 14:46:58 And one of them is for my site... which is entirely static text. 14:47:14 Looks like it's broken :) 14:47:35 So, just to make sure nobody's hacked my index, I'll sync from my master copy. 14:47:40 actually many websites seem to be broken not just lisp related ones 14:47:41 ... and it's clean. 14:47:45 well thank god for that 14:47:56 Tsk tsk. How embarassing. 14:48:59 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:49:02 So, either someone hacked my host to install a dynamic rewrite rule on my static pages to insert malware, or google is broken. 14:49:58 mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:05 good morning 14:50:06 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:50:10 hello mvilleneuve 14:50:17 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 14:50:18 google is broken, the horror 14:50:37 the shit has hit the fan 14:50:40 google is barfed 14:50:40 mvilleneuve: (though "morning" is a bit of an exaggeration, unless you are in a different time zone). 14:51:01 ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:19 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 14:51:47 -!- VisezTrance [n=daniel@unaffiliated/viseztrance] has quit ["".........""] 14:54:31 oops, I meant afternoon, of course 15:00:20 -!- Atherton [n=atherton@mathesar.kwzs.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:00:35 -!- merAch [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:03:37 Dawgmatix [n=deepanka@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:58 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has joined #lisp 15:07:30 kiuma pasted "what's wrong with this macro ?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74637 15:08:13 kiuma: why the () around node? 15:08:35 to call it like ... 15:08:43 Hun: Common idiom. 15:08:59 true, but doesn't matter in this case 15:09:15 kiuma annotated #74637 with "calling example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74637#1 15:09:31 Irrelevant. It -might- matter, and even if it doesn't it's still more consistent. 15:09:42 point taken 15:10:16 What if in the future nodes have two locks? 15:10:32 Suddenly you need to specify -which- lock to grab, and have a reasonable default. 15:10:41 yep, i see 15:11:49 kiuma: I don't know why you're getting a code deletion warning, but... You realize that you're multi-evaluating NODE, right? 15:12:14 merAch [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:31 (Hunh. Locally does that outside of toplevel? Neat!) 15:12:43 nyef, yes, a bug 15:13:03 Is acquire-node-lock inlined or have its ftype declared? 15:13:06 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:38 nyef, a normal defun 15:13:41 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:14:19 And you might consider with-locked-node ((node-var form) &body body) `(let ((,node-var ,form)) ...). 15:14:25 Just as an alternate style. 15:15:51 ok, thx. I've to stop to give milk to my baby 15:18:12 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 15:19:27 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:19:39 Tordek_ [n=tordek@host27.190-138-147.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:19:43 nyef, I'll use gensym to correct multieval 15:20:33 kiuma: May I just point out that the other form would allow you to more easily involve computing or looking up the node to use? 15:20:43 Or do you already have other binding forms for that? 15:20:49 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 nyef, I paste the whole file to give you an idea of what I mean to do for the cms I'm writing 15:26:55 nyef, http://pastebin.ca/1323644 15:27:51 -!- patchwork [n=user@dsl093-174-240.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #lisp 15:27:54 Umm... 15:28:21 nyef, I wanted something similar to bordeax-thread with-node-... macro 15:28:28 ... nevermind, I see what's going on with the w-o-f in acquire-node-lock... 15:28:34 -!- Arkiz [n=ask@200.209.169.18] has quit ["Saindo"] 15:30:31 Why are you THROWing on error instead of signalling? 15:31:07 not a specific reason 15:31:23 Seems to me that you're going to get a lot of catch-tag-not-found errors. 15:31:30 maybe lazyness 15:31:43 Just in experimental use, if not production use. 15:32:13 -!- workthrick [n=mathrick@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:32:44 "catch-tag-not-found" for the throw clause ? 15:32:51 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:34:00 Fire up a clean SBCL and (throw 'node-not-found nil), see what happens. 15:34:11 nyef, the cms node structure will be handled via ajax, so I have to trap all exception and display them gently to the user 15:34:11 Or if not SBCL, your lisp system of choice. 15:34:19 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host72.190-137-189.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:14 So? Would you rather they get a node-not-found error, or a program-error "attempt to THROW to a tag that does not exist: NODE-NOT-FOUND"? 15:35:20 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.98.138] has joined #lisp 15:35:57 Plus, with a proper error form, or even a proper condition hierarchy, you can say -which- node wasn't found, and so on. 15:36:38 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:24 nyef, I was thinking to include all the cals into a catch clause and then print the message that will displayed into a dojo dialog component 15:37:34 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:37 that's a terrible idea 15:37:46 why don't you actually _listen_ to anyone? 15:38:25 so signal is ppreferred over throw ? 15:38:44 signalling conditions has different properties from throwing to tags 15:40:22 I'm just used to the java style because I haven't practiced enought in lisp with exception handling, so it's sure that I'll use bad style 15:40:27 For starters, throwing to tags means you have to have all of the tags caught by name. 15:40:45 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:47 nyef, yes I've understood this 15:41:00 do you have a lisp book, kiuma ? 15:41:08 yes 15:41:10 pcl 15:41:24 Using conditions means you can use a generic handle-all scheme, or just pick off the conditions you want to handle, such as all NODE-CONDITIONS. 15:42:04 kiuma: the constructs which correspond to java style are ERROR and HANDLER-CASE, *NOT* THROW and CATCH 15:42:12 ok, you have conviced me, nyef . I'll use conditions 15:43:02 kiuma: if you use ERROR and HANDLER-CASE then you can write your error handling in exactly the same style. (there are additional capabilities, such as restarts and handler-bind, but you don't have to use them yet) 15:43:15 vy [n=user@78.167.195.159] has joined #lisp 15:43:47 kpreid, with unwind-protect as the 'java finally' right ? 15:43:52 yes 15:43:52 In which section of the CLHS, it mentions about the evaluation order of arguments during a function call? 15:43:55 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 clhs 3.1.2.1.2.3 15:44:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_ababc.htm 15:44:45 (I searched for "form evaluation" and then went down to the section on function forms 15:44:47 ) 15:44:53 Heh. 15:45:05 Quicker than me, I just knew it was somewhere under evaluation-and-compilation. 15:45:21 kpreid: nyef: Thanks. 15:46:29 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:46:39 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 15:49:34 fmitchell [n=fmitchel@blanche.online-buddies.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:25 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0D1AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:45 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:23 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.66.92] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:59:30 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483C5E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:39 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:12:29 Okay, time and long past I was on the road. 16:12:31 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0CA54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:12:33 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Gone. Back in a while."] 16:15:49 What package would you recommend for image loading/saving/manipulation? What I want to do is a tool that reads an image, computes some features of the image, marks them in the image and writes the result back. 16:16:12 I see a couple of libraries on the cliki, but I'm not sure which one would be the most straightforward one to use 16:16:36 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:54 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:17:08 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:10 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:10 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:17:13 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:18:58 Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:19:01 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:19:07 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:21:31 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016246184.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 16:23:13 ken-p [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has joined #lisp 16:25:03 nha: Do you have any specific image format, or formats will vary? 16:29:46 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:30:05 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:23 phytovor [n=doxtor@cpe-92-37-0-117.dynamic.amis.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:34 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com"] 16:31:50 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 16:35:33 vy: as long as it's lossless it's fine, I could do some conversions via shell scripts 16:36:56 oh, it has to be an RGB format, no palette or anything like that 16:36:59 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:37:14 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:01 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.71] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:34 nha: There are vecto and ch-image that I previously used and found effective. 16:39:58 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:40:07 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:40:11 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:40:31 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:42:33 vy: thanks 16:49:01 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.207.146] has joined #lisp 16:49:25 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf8d3.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:51:31 demas [n=demas@94.25.62.199] has joined #lisp 16:52:38 Good evening. 16:53:04 -!- demas [n=demas@94.25.62.199] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:53:22 *beach* has spent another day with no Lisp programming, and is starting to feel the effects. 16:53:54 dwave [n=ask@062016246184.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 16:56:16 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:57:22 Positive or negative effects? 16:58:18 you start to see parens, even when none are there 16:58:27 djarvelis: negative! 16:58:37 phew 16:58:46 I thought maybe lisp was a bad habbit 16:58:46 -!- meingbg` is now known as meingbg 16:59:00 djarvelis: on the contrary, it keeps me sane. 16:59:23 I think i'd need something stronger than lisp for it to work on me 17:00:09 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-113-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:01:33 heh! 17:01:37 A day without lisp is a dull day. 17:01:53 Well put! 17:02:26 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:05:34 Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-113-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:52 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 17:07:25 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:07:38 I have been garbage collecting recently. 17:07:54 got rid of some stuff 17:08:24 xb 17:08:31 almost as good as Lisp programming 17:08:35 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.134.111] has quit [Success] 17:08:58 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:09 have you ever garbage collected a Java book? Nice feeling. 17:09:57 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf8d3.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:11:00 Heh. 17:11:09 I did some garbage collecting this morning, actually. Still enjoying the fruits of my labour. 17:11:10 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:13:26 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:15:24 trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-058-250-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:37 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:18:01 user_ [n=user@p549253A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:03 Is there any easy way to inverse the execution order of the :AFTER methods? (E.g. The most specific one being first, identical to :BEFORE.) 17:20:15 -!- trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-058-250-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:20:58 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:21:03 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 17:22:30 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:33 vy: i guess, some magic with method combinations 17:23:38 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:24:01 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:24:11 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16923E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:24:31 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:26:30 -!- user_ is now known as momomo 17:28:27 malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c41.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:03 The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:04 -!- The-Kenn1 [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:30:14 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-248-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Success] 17:30:43 -!- Liempt [n=Bevinvan@unaffiliated/liempt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:31:14 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-92.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:31:26 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 17:31:39 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:34 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:39 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BB8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:11 madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.42] has joined #lisp 17:36:12 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 17:45:46 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.42] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:46:01 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbf8d3.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:52:54 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:53:31 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:54:07 ayrnieu_ [n=julianfo@247.sub-70-197-106.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:54:15 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@247.sub-70-197-106.myvzw.com] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:15 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:15 -!- tessier__ [n=treed@wsip-68-15-4-27.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:15 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-201-33-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:15 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:15 -!- pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:15 -!- l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-132-93-183.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- g0ju_ [n=moo@spalila.hrz.fh-zwickau.de] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- Adrinael [i=adrinael@rid7.kyla.fi] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- Bucciarati [n=buccia@212.45.155.126] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 17:54:16 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:54:35 -!- ayrnieu_ is now known as ayrnieu 17:55:00 -!- Xlas [n=28@c-e53e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 17:55:10 Can someone convince me that forced/static typing is bad for any lisp? 17:55:42 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:46 cp1134 [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has joined #lisp 17:55:49 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:56:08 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 17:56:13 Quadrescence: It seems good for Qi. 17:56:15 l4ndfo [n=l4ndfo@catv-89-132-93-183.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:56:15 pok [i=pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 17:56:16 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 17:56:29 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 17:56:38 johs [n=johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 17:57:56 Quadrescence: It would be more of the case of convincing you that static typing in general is bad. 17:58:06 Lotsa internet pages on it I'm sure. 17:58:25 Hrm. 17:58:28 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-30-50.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:58:39 Static typing is a tool like any tool, and therefore it depends on circumstances. As a lower bound for correctness I find it very helpful in groups of developers >20 17:58:51 tessier__ [n=treed@wsip-68-15-4-27.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:52 Bucciarati [n=buccia@212.45.155.126] has joined #lisp 17:59:28 I find it doesn't work so hot with me when I'm in lisp and I'd rather move to a language like java or haskell (I know I'm blaspheming) when using it. 17:59:40 Xlas [n=28@c-e53e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:59:56 But Qi is indeed pretty cool, at least looking at it from the outside. 18:00:07 Like I said, when I can manipulate the reader at will, I'm pretty much in a completely dynamic state of mind. 18:00:21 So I don't think Qi and I woudl get along. 18:02:07 I found this to be very good: http://www.pphsg.org/cdsmith/types.html 18:03:31 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:03:46 -!- Xlas [n=28@c-e53e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:53 Xlas [n=28@c-e53e70d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:04:16 nyef [n=nyef@pool-173-48-113-62.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:14 silenius [n=jl@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:24 -!- silenius [n=jl@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:07:04 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 18:08:06 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:08:10 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:08:25 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 18:08:40 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:09:19 g0ju_ [n=moo@spalila.hrz.fh-zwickau.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:56 yakov [n=yakov__@95-28-68-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:11:19 drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:11:56 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-92.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 18:12:24 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-33-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 18:16:16 madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.42] has joined #lisp 18:21:32 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:23 -!- mvilleneuve [n=matthieu@che33-1-82-66-18-171.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:23:19 drewc: you had a good knowledge of the existing html-generating libraries (like cl-who), could you name them for me? there is one I can't find (>:html was the syntax, I think) 18:23:24 drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:24:23 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24:44 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:14 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:25:23 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:34 <_death> fe[nl]ix: there? 18:26:07 yes 18:26:30 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:44 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:27:28 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.42] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:27:41 -!- Jabberwockey [n=Tumnus_@dslb-082-083-113-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:28:29 madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has joined #lisp 18:29:03 <_death> there's something weird about the event dispatch and timers.. when make-timer is called, the timeout stored is absolute (rather, relative to sys-monotonic-time), but in event-dispatch it is clamped according to min-step and max-step, which aren't 18:29:26 <_death> (_not_ relative) 18:30:31 <_death> that absolute time is usually far greater than max-step, and therefore gets clamped 18:30:57 <_death> but this means that I can't give smaller timeouts 18:31:19 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 18:32:03 -!- yakov [n=yakov__@95-28-68-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:32:48 yakov [n=yakov__@95-28-117-216.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:36:03 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:36 parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:55 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:38:13 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:18 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 18:38:46 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 18:39:39 -!- drdo``` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:39:48 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E45541.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 18:40:00 _death: smaller timeouts ? 18:40:09 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:40:23 <_death> smaller than max-step 18:42:28 of course you can, but it wouldn't make much sense IMO 18:43:02 josemanuel [n=josemanu@70.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:44:09 <_death> I'm not sure I understand? in any case that's just a symptom, the real problem is the weird clamp 18:45:25 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:47:20 <_death> the value to be clamped should be relativized to current time, methinks 18:48:43 no, because that needs to be a relative time 18:49:28 <_death> ??? it's currently an absolute time 18:49:50 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:58 -!- zzach [n=root@p5087021B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:52:21 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 18:52:24 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:52:35 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:54:05 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deepanka@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 18:54:28 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:37 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:55:40 _death: try http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/event-dispatch.lisp 18:57:45 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:59:24 <_death> no good, min-timeout can sometimes be nil 19:00:25 <_death> if I (or ... now) it's better 19:05:20 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 19:05:26 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:20 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:24 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16923E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:32 _death: ok 19:09:56 -!- mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:09:59 arthax0r [i=arthax0r@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ae94b1eb68f55f8e] has joined #lisp 19:10:00 mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has joined #lisp 19:10:20 i am having trouble getting asdf-install working w/clisp 19:10:28 any help? 19:11:16 sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:23 _death: did that patch solve the problem ? 19:11:33 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:18 arthax0r: Just the advice to not use asdf-install. 19:13:18 foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:45 well i don't know anything about lisp i am just trying to install stumpwm and it says i need asdf-install to get clx/cl-ppcre 19:13:57 <_death> fe[nl]ix: yes, (count-evals (:expires 5) (event-dispatch evb :timeout 0.1 :min-step 0)) ==> ~50, whereas previously it was ~2 19:14:02 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:10 archangelpetro: don't asdf-install clx 19:14:24 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:27 sykopomp: ? 19:14:31 archangelpetro: install it through clbuild, or pull it in from source control manually 19:14:45 -!- phytovor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:14:47 the clx release is bugged to hell, and it'll make your stumpwm crashy :) 19:14:58 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-216-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:04 so.... 19:15:15 i don't want a crashy wm 19:15:58 I am under the impression that xmonad is a better tiling WM if you aren't interested in the underlying development language. 19:16:00 arthax0r: did you try the #stumpwm channel, by the way? They should be able to help you better there :) 19:16:10 true 19:16:17 and I would be inclined to agree with ahaas. 19:18:44 perhaps i'll ahaas i am an avid xmo user 19:18:50 however it is having 64 bit issues 19:19:00 perhaps i'll just go dwm or wmii 19:19:20 also, i figured getting of xmo would save me the bloat of the haskell libs 19:19:36 but it appears using a lisp/lua based wm is going to have a similar affect 19:20:33 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:22:28 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:41 arthax0r: Somehow, I don't know if I can compare the 30mb of sbcl + ~5 more from stump+clx+cl-ppcre to be bloat 19:22:57 ed as ghc's 300mb+ install 19:23:48 considering bloat: maybe then a big lisp isn't necessary, try dwm ;) 19:24:24 -!- blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:14 you could try building stump in ecl 19:25:21 ecl? 19:25:25 managed to pack everything together to 6MB 19:25:30 sykopomp: true 19:25:33 embedabble common lisp 19:25:43 but that's hard to use, not for beginners imho 19:25:58 well i don't get this lisp interpreter 19:27:04 arthax0r: what do you mean? 19:27:41 the stump readme says to run some clisp commands but i can't get them to go 19:28:01 arthax0r: ask in #stumpwm 19:28:08 that's what that channel's there for :) 19:28:13 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has joined #lisp 19:28:31 yes i thought of that second 19:28:36 thx for the input tho all 19:28:40 -!- arthax0r [i=arthax0r@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ae94b1eb68f55f8e] has left #lisp 19:29:24 I bet he tried to run (require 'asdf-install) in clisp. Hah. 19:30:33 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:31:07 ahaas: xmonad is better if you like autotiling. Worse if you don't like autotiling :) 19:31:18 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:31:18 anyway goodnight #lisp 19:31:29 goodnight schmx 19:31:42 <_death> fe[nl]ix: btw I also added the check for nil in %dispatch-event, and it doesn't seem to cause any problems 19:39:06 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:40:00 -!- momomo [n=user@p549253A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 19:43:27 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:44:02 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-004-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:30 doylent [n=doylent@host34-32-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:47:23 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@pool-71-165-20-85.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:43 root__ [n=root@p50871151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:02 -!- doylent [n=doylent@host34-32-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:22 doylent [n=doylent@host34-32-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:48:26 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm247.sigma228.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:48:28 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm247.sigma228.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 19:49:46 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host190-245-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 19:50:07 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 19:50:40 -!- doylent [n=doylent@host34-32-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:00 doylent [n=doylent@host34-32-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:55:38 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 19:56:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 20:00:05 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:00:37 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:00:47 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:29 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:05:37 vkumar [n=manualqr@adsl-18-68-248.sdf.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:40 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:41 mega1 [n=mega@3e70cb0e.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:08:18 hi, I'm new to common Lisp. I code mostly in C and Python, on linux.. given my background, which CL implementation should I choose from - or is it just a matter of taste? 20:09:02 Atherton [n=atherton@mathesar.kwzs.be] has joined #lisp 20:09:03 sbcl? 20:09:50 snowmobile [n=lindem@dslb-084-058-229-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:58 it's mostly a matter of taste, i like clisp myself, other people prefer sbcl, or cmu-cl, or even commercial implementations 20:11:05 there is also clozure cl which runs on windows, as well as linux and os x 20:11:16 any strong opinions on Allegro? that's what I've been suggested to use, though I want to explore the options 20:11:35 -!- repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-225-2-177.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:12:10 Allegro CL is commercial 20:12:13 i worked with it some time but i am no expert and new here myself 20:12:27 there is a slightly limited version for learning 20:12:31 allegro is nice, but the licensing is expensive. 20:12:48 vkumar: on what platform are you on 20:12:50 ? 20:12:56 linux 20:12:58 ah 20:13:15 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:13:22 sbcl is widely used among #lisp regulars 20:13:36 uh, i need help with an extension to sbcl; but i dont know if i should ask here 20:13:57 snowmobile: What sort of help, what sort of extension? 20:14:09 i cannot seem to find any way to set an environment variable. i can get them sure... 20:14:14 blackwolf [n=blackwol@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:16 lispm: that's interesting. I just came upon an Arch Forums post; "phrakture: sbcl is superior" 20:14:24 i am just too inexperienced to find it 20:14:28 drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:14:38 Set an environment variable in what context? Run-program? 20:14:38 I'll go with sbcl for now 20:14:43 sb-ext:posix-getenv 20:14:46 that contect 20:14:55 context* 20:15:14 would it be possible to set them, too? 20:15:28 <_8david> sb-posix:putenv 20:15:30 -!- vkumar [n=manualqr@adsl-18-68-248.sdf.bellsouth.net] has quit ["(client_quit)"] 20:15:32 -!- drdo```` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:15:39 putenv? Really? 20:15:57 I already tried, maybe I mistyped that. lemme try... 20:15:59 posix putenv 20:15:59 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/putenv.html 20:16:28 posix setenv 20:16:28 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for setenv. 20:16:30 Hunh. 20:17:00 yes, i know what putenv is and does, i have done c for 11 years 20:17:07 dmytro-lebedev [n=dmitry@242-152-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:10 i just cannot find a function to do it in lisp 20:17:25 and sb-ext:posix-putenv isnt there 20:17:42 -!- lnostdal [n=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit ["people == shit"] 20:17:45 -!- drdo````` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:17:46 But sb-posix:putenv -is- there. 20:17:52 nyef: putenv() appears to be very ancient 20:17:55 repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-225-2-177.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:00 sb-posix? ok ill try 20:18:05 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, so I see. And setenv is more recent. 20:18:14 (setf (sb-posix:putenv ... ? 20:18:14 snowmobile: You may need to (require :sb-posix) first. 20:18:33 ah so yes, that makes sense 20:18:41 (setf (sb-posix:getenv ... ? I mean 20:19:03 no 20:19:13 that doesnt work... tried that first thing 20:19:15 (sb-posix:putenv "HOME=/") 20:19:18 lispm: But then you'd also need sb-posix:remenv. :-P 20:19:55 I'm only guessing ;-) 20:20:11 splendid! thanks! 20:20:28 on the other hand, why is getenv in sb-ext and putenv isnt? 20:20:59 -!- dmytro-lebedev [n=dmitry@242-152-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 20:21:25 snowmobile: Because it's not needed for the base system? 20:21:40 yeah, I guess it isnt as much as getenv is 20:22:39 thanks really. i am trying to actually try some tcp daemons (primitive httpd)... to see whether common lisp can displace c for me 20:23:02 kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has joined #lisp 20:23:33 snowmobile: did you look at hunchentoot-cgi? 20:23:55 -!- kroger [n=user@66.134.142.83] has left #lisp 20:24:14 H4ns: no not yet... i am trying to do some basic stuff myself to learn common lisp. 20:25:02 ferada` [n=user@e179234236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:52 and it seems that common lisp might actually become my new preferred language, if i can manage to learn to do things with it :-) 20:28:35 to find functions you can type (apropos "putenv") 20:29:03 `m4dnificent: Perhaps you were thinking of YACLML? Code using that looks like this: (<:html :lang "en" (<:head (:title "Hello")) (<:body (<:p "World"))) 20:29:08 nice to know, thanks 20:29:11 type (apropos "putenv" "SB-POSIX") to find it in the specified package 20:29:20 `m4dnificent: Er, that should <:TITLE, not :TITLE. 20:29:27 Anyway, bedtime for me. 20:29:27 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.174.42] has quit ["The universe is a big place. Perhaps even the biggest."] 20:30:09 what graphical toolkit will give me no hassles to learn to use with sbcl? 20:30:40 gtk seems to be supported, but i will need something easy to learn... 20:31:19 (linux, on here.) 20:31:20 snowmobile: I guess McClim is the most lisp like but it's probably not the easiest 20:31:48 -!- ferada [n=user@f054014123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:31:49 ruediger: i will write that down, and look into it. 20:31:58 -!- ferada` is now known as ferada 20:32:11 *schenkelklopf* 20:32:15 never mind 20:32:39 *raeusper* 20:32:54 *nichtversteh* 20:33:00 wow 20:33:15 <_8david> snowmobile: where are you living? 20:33:31 in rheinland-pfalz, germany. 20:33:46 region trier. 20:35:08 (if somebody would write a lisp frontend for qt. That'd be really great. btw.) 20:35:26 yes, I was hoping for qt to turn up... but I cannot do it myself 20:35:30 ach, alles zugroast. 20:35:33 *e 20:37:13 but as my primary field is command-line and server programming, i dont really need a toolkit, it just is something i should know how to do. 20:41:36 -!- vy [n=user@78.167.195.159] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:42:57 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:44:19 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:44:37 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:45:06 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:45:17 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:45:44 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:27 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:46:54 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:47:36 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:48:12 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 20:49:02 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-139-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:49:51 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:50:00 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-004-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [""Feierabend""] 20:50:17 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:33 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 20:50:55 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:51:42 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:53:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:56:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:56:33 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@62-47-157-24.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:03 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:06 -!- Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:18 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:02:48 |doylent| [n=doylent@host50-127-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:03:12 Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:03:23 Evening ppls 21:05:52 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:11 this might is most likely a stupid question...but is there a way to pass in a list to replace &rest parameter arguments 21:06:43 clhs apply 21:06:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 21:06:50 Harag: ^ you mean that? 21:09:41 yes something like that thanx...let me see if I can get my head around that 21:10:10 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:12:31 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:48 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:17:59 -!- `m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 21:18:39 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.22] has joined #lisp 21:19:12 -!- doylent [n=doylent@host34-32-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:21:15 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:23:15 patmaddox [n=pergesu@ip68-4-201-9.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:27 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has joined #lisp 21:24:32 -!- |doylent| [n=doylent@host50-127-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 21:25:04 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:26:12 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 21:26:15 H4ns: If i wanted to use apply with get-dao is this right (postmodern:get-dao 'mine 'company_name 'mine 'company_name) 21:26:42 where get-dao (type &rest keys) 21:27:03 darn sorry wrong paste 21:27:20 (apply #'postmodern:get-dao 'mine '(mine "Mine X" company_name "Company X")) 21:27:42 looks about right to me 21:28:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:08 -!- `m4dnificent is now known as madn`m4dnificent 21:30:17 fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 21:30:36 Where does one put lisp libraries (vecto in this case) on OS X/BSD systems 21:31:18 wherever you want 21:31:19 fualo: wherever you want 21:31:24 fualo: anywhere, as long as you push the directory containing the .asd file to your asdf:*central-registry* 21:31:25 :D 21:31:36 darn, I didn't even get a chance to try. 21:31:49 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:31:57 lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 21:32:10 `m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has joined #lisp 21:32:24 drewc: I don't have an .asd file :-( 21:32:31 -!- djarvelis is now known as Wood`Chuck 21:32:43 minion: vecto? 21:32:44 vecto: Vecto is a graphics library that uses cl-vectors and ZPNG to draw vector graphics to PNG files. http://www.cliki.net/vecto 21:32:44 then you have a wrong vecto 21:32:59 -!- Wood`Chuck is now known as djarvelis 21:33:10 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:33:14 where is the asdf central registry 21:33:27 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:51 well, asdf:*central-registry* is a variable, which points to 21:34:04 drewc@kronos:~$ wget http://www.xach.com/lisp/vecto.tgz && tar zxf vecto.tgz && ls vecto*/*.asd 21:34:04 21:34:06 where it's pointing is up to you 21:34:14 whoops, sorry 21:34:28 but yeah, there is a vecto.asd for sure 21:34:30 (push #P"/path/to/my/elite/systems/" asdf:*central-registry*) 21:35:21 minion: tell fualo about asdf 21:35:22 fualo: please see asdf: asdf is Another System Definition Facility. http://www.cliki.net/asdf 21:35:23 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 21:35:39 fualo: the asdf manual will explain all! :) 21:35:49 merci drewc! 21:35:53 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:56 mudballs look promising. 21:36:08 de rien! 21:36:17 I think fare is also working on something. 21:36:19 mudballs is pretty great to work with as a library distribution thing :) 21:36:37 Fade: mudballs has some serious flaws that make it unusable imo. 21:36:46 drewc: oh? 21:36:50 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70cb0e.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:36:59 drewc: which are? 21:37:05 H4ns: Thanx the statement was (apply #'postmodern:get-dao '(mine "Company X" "Mine X")) in the end. 21:37:09 i've only played with it a bit. 21:37:17 still using asdf for my own stuff. 21:37:22 a) not asdf compatible at all. 21:37:24 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 21:38:04 b) has no clear goal but rather conflates three different things. 21:38:32 (a distribution mechanism, a systems definition mechanism, and a systems manager) 21:39:09 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.98.138] has left #lisp 21:39:23 well, the author has already said that he intends to implement a) 21:39:24 c) doesn't solve the actual problem, which is a lack of a real distribution, and a lack of 'release culture' in the CL community. 21:39:48 i don't think c) is addressable in software. :) 21:39:51 lack of release culture cant be fixed by a tool/library 21:40:10 so, then, what problem does mudballs solve? 21:40:18 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:40:23 drewc: asdf-install, mainly. 21:40:40 and system management, at least partly 21:40:52 two things that are seriously lacking in everything else 21:40:56 fare appears to be building a make/scons for complex lisp projects. 21:41:03 xcvb 21:41:04 _death: I pushed a fix 21:41:06 right 21:41:06 which is great 21:41:17 asdf, uses asdf 21:41:24 sorry, xcvb 21:41:32 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=kevin@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:41:47 xcvb is an initialism i can never remember. 21:41:47 and does really solve a lot of the problems i have with asdf and large systems. 21:42:03 Fade: down and to the right of asdf 21:42:18 *chuckles* 21:42:21 drewc: it doesn't solve the problem of distribution, though, which is the main appeal of mudballs 21:42:29 distribution and version management, even. 21:42:36 sykopomp: does mudballs really solve those problems? 21:42:40 thats my main beef with asdf 21:42:44 i looked very hard at it 21:42:48 i havent tried mudballs though 21:43:21 drewc: from what I've seen from playing with it, it's certainly much nicer than clbuild or asdf-install, so I consider the problem at least better-addressed for now. 21:43:37 mudballs is still in development, but that's also an advantage to it 21:43:53 sykopomp: personally, requiring a custom system definition is a no go. 21:43:57 I saw something in the ML about a patch involving pulling from source control (and versioning -those- would be amazing) 21:44:12 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:14 drewc: I ported all my .asds over. It was trivial. 21:44:29 which means writing a tool that auto-converts systems shouldn't be too terrible 21:44:31 sykopomp: what happens when the .asd changes 21:44:42 drewc: the idea is to not use .asd :) 21:44:53 and therein lies the flaw 21:45:02 somehow i lack faith in that approach 21:45:11 it worked out for .asd 21:45:12 it works well in scons. 21:45:28 where the deps are introspected. 21:46:01 anyhow, it's interesting to see so many takes on the problem. 21:46:24 MK:DEFSYSTEM came before asdf, and asdf seems to have pretty much overtaken it. 21:46:40 sykopomp: there were compelling reasons to move. 21:47:30 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:47:31 I've read mudballs code, and IMO there are no good reasons to move to mudballs 21:47:47 -!- madn`m4dnificent [n=user@83.101.2.19] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:48:53 if the idea was to do a better asdf-install, the first step should not have been to re-write asdf. 21:49:40 that's a good point 21:49:43 if systems and version management are the goal, then it shouldn't matter.. MK:DEFSYSTEM, asdf, or loader.lisp. 21:50:22 debian does not tell the developers of openssh to use only gnu make. 21:50:49 althought that would be a very funny thread. :) 21:50:56 :D 21:50:59 *Fade* imagines theo blowing a gasket 21:52:00 hehehehe 21:52:10 make sure you throw stallman in 21:52:18 so, in the end, mudballs offers no compelling reason to move from my existing ad-hoc solution, and many compelling reasons to stay. 21:52:46 not the least of which is the fact the my clients don't pay me to re-write systems definitions. 21:52:54 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:12 well, is there a way to write a new asdf-install-like system that uses .asd files and provides all the nice things about mudballs that I -would- like to keep? 21:53:13 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 21:53:31 What are the things you'd like to keep? 21:53:48 no. asdf-install-like systems are b0rk3n by design :) 21:53:48 <_death> fe[nl]ix: thanks 21:54:08 drewc: are you still working on "lisp on lines" ? 21:54:16 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:54:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:54:22 Right, asdf-install-like is broken because the central repository is broken, and there's no dependency control, etc. 21:54:25 versioning of libraries, REPL-based pulling and installing of packages, fasl management 21:54:50 and the possibility of pulling from source control (and versioning that, by date maybe)... all though the repl. 21:54:53 Fade: i am. 21:55:22 have you got around to releasing anything? 21:56:04 define release :). ucw-core was the first step. if you look very closely there is a cl-net project... 21:56:56 but nothing official. 21:58:00 *nod* 21:58:11 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:00:49 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:02:09 joachim [n=j@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 22:02:16 -!- joachim [n=j@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 22:02:25 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:05:13 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:41 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:05:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 22:07:30 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:08:18 anyone know an eliza I can run on sbcl? 22:08:34 there's one in PAIP 22:08:43 -!- matley [n=matley@83.224.164.150] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:25 There's one in minion. 22:10:33 minion: hello 22:10:34 what's up? 22:10:42 minion: how are you? 22:10:43 it's going quite fine today 22:11:05 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:03 fualo_ [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 22:12:11 -!- fualo_ [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:12:46 sykopomp: If I compile the file, it complains a lot about undefined functions 22:13:27 Is there a canonical lispy way to fix nil-block leakage in macros? 22:13:45 "nil-block leakage"? 22:14:00 I have a macro that is conceptually two nested loops 22:14:28 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:14:28 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:14:31 I would like (return) to break out of both of them 22:14:35 Ah, yes. Don't macroexpand to LOOP. 22:15:42 won't I have the same issue with DO? Unless I somehow kludge the step forms so that the two nested loops become a single loop... 22:16:08 somehow, the latter seems like an awkward solution to me 22:16:23 nha: you can use (loop :named ...) 22:16:56 fe[nl]ix: that sounds good, thank you 22:17:49 -!- dwave [n=ask@062016246184.customer.alfanett.no] has quit ["Be back later"] 22:17:55 -!- root__ [n=root@p50871151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:18:08 Doesn't help with that one local loop macro, whatever it was. 22:18:21 But does help with block nil, I suppose. 22:18:49 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 22:19:03 SBCL 1.0.25 soon, right? 22:19:55 zzach [n=zzach@p50871151.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:44 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 22:23:33 fisxoj_ [n=fisxoj@149.43.252.13] has joined #lisp 22:29:04 -!- fualo [n=fualo@d170-106.primero-2.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:32:36 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:34:53 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:35:22 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:36:22 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.22] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:37:50 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:38:24 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:32 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:41:21 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-58-174.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:32 -!- snowmobile [n=lindem@dslb-084-058-229-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:44:24 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:44:42 -!- ozy` [n=vt920@pool-71-184-104-97.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["absquatulating"] 22:48:39 -!- ehu` [n=chatzill@82.170.33.173] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 2.0.0.19/2008120200]"] 22:50:38 -!- repnop [n=repnop@adsl-69-225-2-177.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:52:14 -!- Harag [n=phil@wbs-196-2-98-168.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 22:52:59 kpreid__ [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:17 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:56:47 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 22:59:00 -!- fisxoj_ is now known as fisxoj 22:59:32 how do you break out of a loop? 22:59:53 In what sense of "break out" and "loop"? 23:01:40 nyef: ever read http://frozencache.blogspot.com ? 23:02:19 Beket [n=stathis@ppp118-76.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:03:03 fe[nl]ix: No, I can't say that I have. 23:03:13 nyef: a loop has a read in it, and should stop looping when a certain input comes through (read) 23:03:37 read blocks 23:03:41 fisxoj: Okay, that sounds like a usable loop exit condition... 23:03:43 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:08 fisxoj: So the rest kindof depends on what sort of loop you have. 23:04:28 fisxoj: the loop won't even run once unless READ gets something. 23:05:18 it's just (loop (read something) (if something equals a value) (exit loop) (do something)) 23:05:24 in pseudo-lisp 23:05:49 Sounds reasonable to me so far. 23:05:55 So where's your problem? 23:05:56 (loop for something = (read) until (equal something value) do (something-else)) 23:09:36 hefner: sounds good, let me try it 23:09:40 any reason why a function I have in a file that is asdf-loaded when I require my package would not work, unless I go in and do a C-c C-c again? 23:10:41 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:10:42 felideon: There are a few possibilities, but they're kindof unusual scenarios... 23:10:42 I mean, it works, but it ends up callinga macro that calls a Drakma function which does not work 23:11:09 after I C-c C-c the function, it goes all the way through. 23:11:51 Sounds like # 23:12:10 jlf`` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:23 when you say 'would not work', what do you mean? computer catches fire? gremlins attack your cat? a meaningful error message, perhaps? 23:12:35 cooldude127 [n=cooldude@32.134.187.241] has joined #lisp 23:12:41 -!- drafael [n=quassel@ip-118-90-129-216.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13:16 -!- jlf [n=user@209.204.171.109] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:13:21 -!- jlf`` is now known as jlf 23:13:27 -!- Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13:41 hefner: "stop-and-catch-fire" opcode? :) 23:13:42 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.44.126] has joined #lisp 23:14:17 hefner: point taken, which is why i tried rephrasing. 23:15:05 I have a function foo() that calls cl-couch:couch-request that calls cl-couch:request* that calls drakma:http-request. that last drakma:http-request fails because a parameter is missing 23:15:22 however, when I C-c C-c my function foo(), it works fine. 23:15:23 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:17:50 Adrinael [i=adrinael@rid7.kyla.fi] has joined #lisp 23:18:06 that is interesting. sure you don't have a second definition of 'foo' somewhere you don't expect? 23:18:10 And I take it that cl-couch is a dependency, not the system you're actually working in? 23:18:27 nyef: correct 23:18:31 er, not foo, but cl-couch:request*, I suppose 23:18:49 No, foo is another one to check for duplicate definition of. 23:18:59 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@70.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:19:11 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:20:21 I'll check, but I haven't seend any duplicate definitions 23:20:36 couch-request is a macro that wraps the couch-request* function 23:22:01 Funky compiler-macroness, wierd declarations or optimize settings? 23:22:45 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.207.146] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:25:56 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:20 jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:59 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:28:10 no idea. 23:28:34 cooldude128 [n=cooldude@32.133.13.18] has joined #lisp 23:28:39 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:29:23 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:30:10 If I wanted to "step through" code of a dependency, would I have to insert break functions and recompile that dependency? 23:32:02 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-204-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:33:13 mtd [n=martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:22 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:34:41 -!- malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb3c41.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:36:55 hefner: what if I want to run a function before reading with the loop you gave me? 23:39:39 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.207.146] has joined #lisp 23:39:42 the first thing that springs to mind is "for form = (progn (do-this-first) (read))" 23:40:30 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:41:05 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:41:12 -!- cooldude128 [n=cooldude@32.133.13.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:41:31 aundro_ [n=aundro@108.116-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 23:42:32 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit [] 23:42:54 -!- aundro [n=aundro@187.211-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:43:57 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:55 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 23:44:59 -!- cooldude127 [n=cooldude@32.134.187.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:48:44 -!- kg4qxk [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:51:18 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:53 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:53:10 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:54 If I'm running something inside a thread and I want a FORMAT call to print its output to slime's REPL, what stream do I give it, if any? 23:57:29 Liempt [n=Bevinvan@XPLR-TS-10-VAN-67-201-133-74.barrettxplore.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:39 -!- vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59:27 sykopomp: If you set swank:*globally-redirect-io* to T in your ~/.swank.lisp, all output will go to the REPL. 23:59:40 thanks!