00:03:24 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:03:30 Chrononaut [n=bjorn@obvcode.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:08 -!- ferada [n=ferada@e179238057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:04:18 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:36 ferada [n=ferada@e179236167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:05:43 -!- ferada [n=ferada@e179236167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:47 -!- Beeet is now known as Beket 00:06:30 elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has joined #lisp 00:07:05 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-50-106.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.14/2008120416]"] 00:08:01 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 00:09:37 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@94-248-85-141.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:11:06 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:11:08 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 00:11:26 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:52 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:17:44 rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-176-87.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:30 *_3b* wonders if there is actually any point in using the new-activation and new-catch opcodes in avm2 00:22:45 hefner [n=hefner@scatterbrain.cbp.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 00:26:09 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:29:32 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:33:08 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:17 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-248-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:35:33 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl10-158-56.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:35:46 -!- archangelpetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:36:16 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:04 ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.67.251] has joined #lisp 00:38:20 -!- ivan_chernetsky [n=ivan@195.222.67.251] has left #lisp 00:38:47 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 00:39:13 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087BD14.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["I am Locutus of Borg! You will assist us!"] 00:40:09 fusss: YUI == Yahoo UI library? 00:40:17 yeah 00:40:36 jquery UI > yui 00:42:03 anyone have a clue how to implement a decent search engine ontop of a database? 00:42:58 nearly everywhere i checked people tell me to use java this or php that. theoretically, how does one DIY such a beast? maintain an independent off rdbs lookup table? 00:43:38 i just don't think i can tack good search on top of sql union/intersection operations 00:44:10 I imagine that you design your db schema to make searching easier. 00:44:33 Preferably using a DB engine which allows fulltext indexing. 00:45:28 fusss: The majority of the code I've seen used the full text capabilities of the SQL DB engine. 00:45:50 woah, very telling i didn't know such a thing existed 00:46:34 E.g. Oracle has full-blown products/options for this. 00:46:39 "Wait, search? Isn't that what google is for?" 00:47:04 nyef: :-) 00:47:06 But I seem to recall that PostGreSQL has it as a contrib. 00:47:30 At one point I had to retrofit fulltext search into something, I forget what, written in eitehr perl or php, using mysql. 00:47:32 We used tsearch2 or something like that. 00:48:02 fusss, I don't know much about it 00:48:13 But several of my friends have had positive experiences with Lucene 00:48:21 It's worth a look if you haven't already: http://lucene.apache.org/java/docs/ 00:48:23 montezuma! 00:48:36 In fact, Oracle has full-blown bloatwares for everything. 00:48:57 slyrus__: You know, if anyone forks that, it has to be named "montezuma's revenge". 00:49:06 heh 00:49:20 fusss: Look like your statement is true again: "people tell me to use java this or php that." 00:49:48 z0d: Only half true. montezuma isn't java or php. 00:49:58 One could always do it all from scratch 00:50:21 But why spend hundreds on hours when a lot of qualified people have put a lot of effort into a perfectly suitable product? 00:50:43 nyef: I know. At least now he has an exception. 00:50:44 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:24 Is it an exception, or is it a signal? 00:51:31 The description is funny: Montezuma is a Common Lisp port of Ferret. Ferret is a Ruby port of Lucene. Lucene is sort of Doug Cutting's Java version of Text Database (TDB), which he and Jan Pedersen developed at Xerox PARC, and which, to complete the circle, was written in Common Lisp" 00:51:40 Is that what we call meta-circular? 00:51:57 Ah no, whatever. 00:54:29 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:54:43 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:56:28 z0d: you're thinking of "interpreter tower", the little reflective interpreters that schemers tend to write over other little reflective interpreters 00:56:45 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 00:56:47 or something like that 00:57:54 You mean "interpreter hell". <-: 00:58:05 yeah 01:01:28 Or those emulation fanatics who run bleem on wine on bochs on whatever that macos-on-amiga thing was on uae on... 01:03:52 z0d: bah, you just need an SSC. (cue ILTWYSJ) 01:04:18 acronymexpand-1 01:04:33 I Love The Way You Say "Just". 01:04:47 minion, can you expand acronyms? 01:04:48 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 01:05:03 minion: what does SSC stand for? 01:05:04 Sixtieth Shauchle Cerebropsychosis 01:05:51 Sufficiently Sophisticated Complicator? 01:07:40 "Mingw doesn't implement sigsetjmp and siglongjmp, or sigaction/sigvec" 01:07:51 - my org-file, circa 2006 01:08:25 nyef: what would you recommend for a systray based sbcl-app launcher? 01:08:45 A -what-? 01:08:46 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:09:21 i have an tiny little app in sbcl which i don't want anybody launching manually (since they couldn't) 01:09:54 i was thinking of just writing a little systray applet, the little icons you see in windows beside the clock 01:10:05 Why couldn't it be launched via a shortcut? 01:10:12 right click and you a menu (launch/refresh/option/help/shutdown) 01:10:40 (And, technically, it's the "notification area", not the "systray".) 01:10:51 it runs continuosly as long as the machine is on, it is launched at boot time 01:11:33 Umm... It can't be that hard to have it just stick a little icon there, can it? 01:11:40 am i gonna get bitten by sbcl signal handling? it seems to work fine with console signals (C-c, etc.) 01:11:54 Oh, god... 01:12:12 Repeat after me: Windows doesn't have signals. 01:12:21 we use SEH, i know :-) 01:12:31 .. 01:12:41 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:12:50 but everyone rolls their signals on top of that, including most compilers 01:12:51 Windows has no asynchronous notification that is not polled. 01:13:17 And SBCL doesn't have interrupt-thread. 01:13:26 if you mean the WndProc and the message crackers, well, yeah .. 01:13:28 At least, not yet. 01:13:47 No, I mean window messages, completion events, -anything-. 01:13:48 what are my options for killing it and restarting it from another process then? 01:14:35 Well, for restarting, there's the wonderful CreateProcess API and its wrappers. 01:14:48 And for killing, you have TerminateProcess, I think. 01:14:56 But that's somewhat of a heavy hand. 01:15:04 Or you could send it a message asking it to shut down nicely. 01:15:32 hmmm 01:16:07 -!- slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:16:28 let me chew on this, bbl 01:16:35 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 01:18:24 And how the heck did I end up the windows expert anyway? 01:19:16 infidelity, or the stubborn refusal to buy a computer that works 01:19:45 What constitutes "a computer that works"? 01:19:46 (or the stubborn insistence on using an operating system that does) 01:19:59 nyef: one that runs linux well, by my definition. 01:20:03 Ah. 01:20:19 Linux is currently... tolerable... on my tablet. 01:20:37 nyef: what kind O tablet? 01:20:46 Draggor: The crappy kind. 01:21:24 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:34 *hefner* keeps forgetting what the problem is with writing an assembler as a bunch of lisp functions which emit machine code 01:23:56 hefner: Backpatches? 01:24:24 Backpatches and labels. 01:25:20 Oh, and it doesn't satisfy that deep-seated need to build parsers and custom syntax and whatnot. 01:25:56 I think I'm find with backpatches and labels. whatever it was that bothered me, I'm destined to rediscover. 01:26:15 *fine 01:27:04 Time to prepare for extreme Saturday. 01:27:44 *nyef* prepares for extremely lazy saturday. 01:27:54 it's really frustrating. I'm reworking this assembler for the second time. The last time, I mostly finished, but never used it at all, and only have the vague impression there was something I really disliked about it. 01:28:27 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:41 Mmm... And sometimes when that happens it's something you really disliked at the time, but in retrospect turns out to actually be a good thing. 01:31:13 <_3b> problem i ran into is functions which need to generate different code depending on other things in the same block 01:31:40 Meh. That's what COND is for. 01:31:55 <_3b> at the level above the assembler that is, the assembler pretty much maps 1-1 functions to output 01:33:08 -!- moocow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:33:14 <_3b> cond doesn't help unless you look at the whole input first 01:33:22 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 01:33:27 hefner: The other failure is selecting which size of relative address to use for branches and whatnot. 01:34:15 Which is why SBCL's assembler is functions that accumulate output into a buffer, with special conventions for "choosers", which can shrink if they ascertain that a more compact encoding is possible. 01:34:55 I'm not bothering with that. I'm not used to the assemblers I've used being any smarter about it, anyway. 01:35:43 I know that one of the problems I have with using SBCL's assembler is that the x86 instruction definitions are broken in places, and it was done on purpose. 01:40:03 krimpet [n=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has joined #lisp 01:40:46 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:40:46 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:41:14 caturday, 02:40 CEST 01:41:21 not the best time to wake up... 01:43:41 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-196-139.we.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:43 CEST? Isn't that summer time? 01:44:23 you're right. though it stood for savings time 01:55:25 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:55:40 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:57:10 ... I thought summer time was DT, not ST? 01:57:46 we're in standard time, right. 01:57:49 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:59 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:58:59 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 01:59:52 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:02:27 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:03:25 -!- rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-176-87.bchsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 02:03:48 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:35 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:05:34 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:05:37 *grmbl* nicotine withdrawal 02:05:40 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 02:08:30 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-67-170-188-86.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:23 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-121-51.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:31 CEST = Central Europe Standard Time if I recall correctly 02:09:34 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [""That's our secret... we kill you with kindness. What's your secret?""] 02:10:31 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:39 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:13:29 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:10 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.229.18] has joined #lisp 02:14:11 szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-135-147.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 02:15:28 *fusss* thinks it's a week of mourning in #newLisp. that cll thread looks like a Viking attack on a kindergarten 02:18:51 it's amazing how they push copying every datum as a good thing 02:19:08 looks like just an excuse to avoid coding a proper GC 02:19:15 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:19 (uh?) 02:20:17 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-67-170-188-86.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:21:31 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:23:58 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:24:26 i don't buy the argument that it could "mislead" newbies. people usually learn stuff that is standardized; no one is gonna go out of their way to try a weird little known implementation of java, python, perl, ruby, etc. when google hits return the main implementation first. 02:26:18 the one exceptions i can think of might be prolog and forth, both of which have weird, unknown and incompatible "mainstream" implementations. 02:27:52 hmmm, rainer is running a CL implementation with a helpful function-lambda-expression. i wonder what is it ;-) 02:28:49 lispworks? allegro? 02:30:06 not LW; it doesn't return the actual source, but a compiled form 02:30:30 rainer hacks on a lispm ;-) 02:31:01 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ca0c9c19db6bf7c9] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:32:37 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:48 -!- X-Scale2 [i=email@89.180.144.108] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:35:52 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 02:40:02 fusss: hey. You asked if I was around, a couple of days ago? 02:40:09 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 02:40:27 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-93-104-119-177.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:40:56 sykopomp: i had a java thing that i wanted fixed and wanted to ask you a few political questions 02:41:26 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:45 haven't touched java since '02 or some such, and wanted to see if the IBM compiler was still better than sun's for fast compilation or what is the "in" thing nowadays 02:42:23 fusss: I think the JVM is pretty much the way to go :-\. I haven't heard of anyone using the IBM compiler, although I'm not much of a java-ite. 02:42:34 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:43 HotSpot seems to be pretty famous. 02:43:51 j2ee sdk look laughable. the bloat and the polished-metal icons reminded me of overpriced sun servers i worked on. UGHHH. those things need a unix compatibility layer more than Windows :-P 02:44:47 heh 02:46:23 question about dynamic vars, by the way: I need global access to a few variables. They should be passable into functions, and alterable that way, and that should update their global state. I'm still a bit fuzzy about how dynamic vars work -- trying to do something like (function *my-special-var*), where function alters a value won't necessarily do what I want it to, right? I'm confused... 02:47:09 special variables are magic, but not that magic 02:47:30 <_3b> clhs progv 02:47:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progv.htm 02:49:18 not that magic, if you vaguely understand how lexical scope and procedure call is implemented in simple language like pascal. lexical variable lookup == static-link lookup, dynamic variable == dynamic link. 02:49:31 -!- Chrononaut [n=bjorn@obvcode.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:49:53 that is the goofiest sentence fragment I've read all day 02:50:46 <_3b> or i guess (setf symbol-value) if you don't want to create bindings 02:50:48 you can look at the text of your code and see where each variable is defined. enclosed blocks can see variables defined in their enclosing blocks. dynamic variables not visible that way, but can be visualized in runtime terms. 02:51:06 Chrononaut [n=bjorn@obvcode.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:34 <_3b> or pass closures that update the variables 02:51:40 the Algol/pascal/oberon terminology explains lisp variables better than anything i know 02:53:32 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:54:49 one is textual enclosure you can see; any free variable is defined elsewhere in my enclosing forms. the other can be visualized as a stack of activation records; any free variable is defined somewhere in my calling sequence :-) 02:55:52 http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeProgLang/PL-Block/Stck01.gif 02:56:28 and for the gory details http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeProgLang/PL-Block/ 02:56:37 I hope sykopomp is taking all this in. 02:56:52 *sykopomp* already solved the problem. 02:57:08 *sykopomp* ended up grabbing his copy of PCL and double-checking. 02:57:19 But thank you. I should've done that in the first place :P 02:59:06 most people would understand dynamic variables just fine, once they implement a few pascal compilers and master the inner details of the CDC (not the cDc mind you ;-) 02:59:35 °_° 02:59:47 ¬_¬ 02:59:54 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A02D2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:00:40 fusss: You mean CDC 6xxx ? 03:00:59 with it's 60bit words? 03:01:11 which wouldn't answer the question "how are special variables not like global lexical variables?" 03:01:27 ahem, no i really gotta go out for a smoke. p_l i'm sure you have it running at home :-S 03:02:02 fusss: No, but I've got some really old books which I used to learn Pascal :D 03:03:06 p_l: i "hacked" on the BBC Micro without ever touching it. didn't have a good book at school on programming. 03:04:17 heh. That's like me and 6502 03:04:40 *p_l* had nearly the complete "Atari 65XE Memory Map" series 03:05:07 good ole 6502; i had my first apple ii in the late 90s actually :-P 03:05:15 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:42 brb, fetching beer and cigarettes from across the street 03:09:15 fusss, :) 03:09:25 fusss, where around the DC area are you, BTW? 03:14:06 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:16:59 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:40 -!- tChAnDy [n=debian@201-41-202-246.bnut3703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:18:07 tChAnDy [n=debian@201-41-202-246.bnut3703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:31:02 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 03:34:23 -!- Beeet is now known as Beket 03:35:27 jikanter [n=jordan@c-98-193-61-35.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:11 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:17 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-177-148.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:55 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:44:57 anyone coming to the ILC09.org ? 03:45:34 hi Fare 03:46:05 hi fe[nl]ix 03:47:15 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:52:13 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:52:17 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:54:11 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 03:56:26 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:56:47 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:01 -!- tChAnDy [n=debian@201-41-202-246.bnut3703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:59:56 hsaliak` [n=user@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:02:15 rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-167-168.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:45 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:08 -!- jikanter [n=jordan@c-98-193-61-35.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:06:59 -!- tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:07:43 -!- Atherton [n=atherton@mathesar.kwzs.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:09:18 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:09:49 lexclose [n=wmarvel@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:37 caoyushen88 [n=cao@61.172.77.136] has joined #lisp 04:10:55 mbset [n=will@ppp-69-223-48-105.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:13 -!- caoyushen88 [n=cao@61.172.77.136] has left #lisp 04:12:45 -!- mbset [n=will@ppp-69-223-48-105.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 04:15:17 estiercol2 [i=estierco@ip72-207-22-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:21 Warning America!! Having a Niiigggger President can mean the end of civilization as we know it as society becomes gradually nigggerfuxated. Asians, whites, non-negroid Jews and Hispanics, Indians, and Native Americans join us in the fight against the feral Negro beast. http://www.chimpout.com This is a battle of humans vs niiigers. We like all races except nnniiigggers. 04:15:48 Atherton [n=atherton@mathesar.kwzs.be] has joined #lisp 04:19:39 -!- estiercol2 [i=estierco@ip72-207-22-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [K-lined] 04:19:53 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:21:55 -!- hsaliak` [n=user@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:24:15 -!- lexclose [n=wmarvel@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:24:29 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:56 heh 04:37:35 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:29 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:21 ahhh, chimpout, you're doing it wrong 04:47:23 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 04:47:34 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:50:56 -!- mvr [n=mitchell@d122-105-155-182.rdl13.qld.optusnet.com.au] has left #lisp 04:52:24 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:53:15 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 05:07:38 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@cpe-75-81-196-139.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:59 -!- segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1C9A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:12:52 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:19:07 benny [n=benny@i577A0FD7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:19:12 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1EF35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:59 I wonder if he subscribed mcclim-devel to this newsletter 05:25:51 for that matter, are any other cl.net projects getting this emails? 05:27:16 oh, I see they are. 05:28:14 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.93] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:30:33 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:50 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:34:27 minion: logs 05:34:27 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 05:35:02 did gwking's email get hacked or something? 05:37:19 mcclim sounds like the sort of thing that might destroy a successful hate-group, drowning all the hateful members in overwhelming complexity. 05:37:53 and then spawn a whole new hate group, with a different target 05:43:41 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 05:49:18 fucking aye, and i'm almost out of beer. a case don't last as long as it used to. a ccase otoh .. 05:49:41 nivya [n=nivya@c-24-1-184-2.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:15 you just keep restartin' it :-P 05:53:04 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:56 hi 05:57:16 howdy 05:57:57 who else is ready for the BLC on monday!! 05:58:01 i'm excited 06:02:22 I'd be excited, if I were in range, and didn't have other obligations 06:02:38 i'll have a video and the slides and stuff 06:02:52 so you'll get a decent experience of it, the screencast is being recorded 06:04:50 i have my outline http://github.com/dto/blc-presentation/blob/99607edc44d6fccb77b0f1ec4fb834542694ab1e/presentation.org 06:05:05 not quite finished annotation... more code examples, links to relevant function implementations 06:07:10 hi dto 06:08:39 hi felideon 06:08:54 how'd it ever go with the blorg? (if that was you) 06:20:04 clon looks nice, someone should tell the N other guys trying to implement a prototype based object system in CL of its existence :-) 06:21:14 dto: looks exiting. where is this BLC thing? 06:28:20 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:29:36 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:35:57 dto: I don't know what they mean, but some of the screenshots in emacs on the rlx page are very neat 06:40:58 _roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:48:39 it does make me wonder if going from elisp to CL wasn't a step backward in the development environment 06:50:41 "worse is better" 06:51:02 better is worse! 06:53:52 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 06:54:10 wars is butter 06:54:57 -!- roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:56:18 lambder [n=lambder@75.3.81.54] has joined #lisp 06:59:13 Good morning. 06:59:14 beach, memo from tic: http://stumpwm.antidesktop.net/wiki/Git -- figure this could be useful regarding how to send patches to/from git, for Sicl. 06:59:17 Well, sort of. 06:59:25 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:59:46 talk of git this early in the day is not a good omen 07:00:26 hefner: It's too late anyway. We are currently living through the worst storm I have ever seen. 07:00:57 It is no doubt nothing compared to the hurricanes in the U.S., but it is pretty bad. 07:01:00 I like a good storm, so long as the power is on and things don't flood 07:01:22 So far so good. 07:01:37 (and I don't have to drive in it) 07:04:59 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-134-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:38 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:05:52 beach: is your vn adventure over yet? 07:06:16 fusss: Yes, I have been back for almost a week. 07:07:16 fusss: And now the secretary from HCM is here on visit. This is her first time outside Vietnam. 07:07:28 oh, good to know. i remembered my time in a few surreal places in vn. fwiw, i crossed by land into china just around this time last year back into laos. weird times. 07:08:03 vn, cn and then laos, within the span of 48 hours 07:09:04 if you're back in .fr it should be fine. the vietnamese get along just fine with the francophones. colonial heritage and such. 07:09:39 They seem to get along with anyone who is not invading them at the moment. 07:09:47 :-P 07:10:12 beach: you're lucky you weren't in .vn when a cyclone hit. East Asian and Aussie cyclones make US hurricanes look like nothing 07:10:56 Adamant: I realize that, yes. And US hurricanes make this storm look like nothing. 07:11:08 ah, alright 07:11:53 I thought the wind could get pretty whippy in France, like those winds you get from North Africa could do up to 70mph sustained 07:12:04 which is a low-end Atlantic hurricane 07:12:12 Adamant: this one is 270km/h 07:12:14 Adamant: you aussie? 07:12:19 sorry, 170 07:12:19 fusss: naw 07:12:25 typo 07:12:33 *fusss* is looking for aussie lispers, moving there in a few 07:12:56 beach: that's a pretty good clip 07:13:14 that's actually pretty comparable to a hurricane if that's not just gusting 07:13:42 Adamant: I saw that it was considered "near hurricane". 07:13:55 beach: next time you're back in the region try Siem Reap and ankor wat. makes you feel like the gods have something to repent for. 07:13:56 beach: it's well about Cat 1 or Cat 2 07:14:00 beach: 170km/h winds??? wow 07:14:13 fusss: what is that? 07:14:38 beach: ankor wat; the temples of humanity. Cambodia. 07:15:06 fusss: ah, right. Yeah, that's planned for next time. 07:15:10 beach: that's a good Cat 2 hurricane windspeed if sustained. 07:15:17 just checked. 07:15:22 Adamant: must be just gusting, then. 07:15:27 maybe 07:18:19 kite weather? 07:18:31 time to go parasailing 07:18:41 wingsuit! 07:19:09 the really crazy surfers on the East Coast of the US like to surf right before and/or during hurricanes 07:19:27 because we don't have a lot of real surf otherwise 07:19:29 Just helping out evolution. 07:19:45 not really 07:20:00 Do they have children already? 07:20:37 no, but there's a difference between being balls to the wall awesome enough to try that, and peeing on the third rail 07:20:43 -!- lambder [n=lambder@75.3.81.54] has quit ["leaving"] 07:22:47 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:22:47 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-140-217.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:04 -!- _roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:28:07 if anything, surfers have more "baby mamas" than hackers :-P 07:29:12 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.125] has joined #lisp 07:29:24 -!- yain_ [n=yain@77.35.238.179] has quit [] 07:34:49 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:03 surfing... I think flying is dangerous enough even without bad weather :D 07:38:30 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 07:43:19 -!- nivya [n=nivya@c-24-1-184-2.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:52:26 -!- gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:53:21 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:15 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:02:37 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:02:48 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 08:02:52 hey Krystof 08:03:29 Hi 08:03:36 hello MrSpec 08:03:55 Krystof: I can't reach my email, probably because of the storm, but I think everything is taken care of, right? 08:08:31 sparc_ [n=sparc@cpe-75-85-10-158.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:03 I sent what I hope was a coherent paper off to Nadine, Cced you, yesterday evening 08:17:22 Krystof: Great! Thanks! 08:17:34 and the final version is in gsharp darcs, not that that helps you :-) 08:18:13 heh, not at the moment at least. 08:18:31 (about that problem: for some reason your darcs is trying to use sftp, which I don't think mine is; I think mine uses scp instead) 08:18:56 How do you know what mine is doing? 08:19:33 you sent me an error message 08:19:41 ah, yes. 08:20:00 is your ssh set up to be passwordless for common-lisp.net? That might be an important difference 08:20:07 bsmntbombgirl [n=gavin@97-118-123-213.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:12 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 08:20:14 Krystof: no it isn't. 08:20:30 I see on the Interweb reports of failure corresponding to that 08:21:44 OK. I just assumed that I was doing something wrong. 08:25:07 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:26:26 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:27:09 wow, slime can even do autodoc for macrolets <3 08:29:25 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-151-10.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:35:58 Does M-* seem to be b0rked for anyone else? 08:36:09 Instead of popping a definition, it asks me for a name. 08:38:56 cp1134 [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has joined #lisp 08:39:48 j emacs 08:39:50 oops 08:39:56 -!- cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:42:45 Aankhen``, try M-, 08:43:59 cp1134_ [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has joined #lisp 08:44:58 jao: That works. Thanks 08:45:03 s,$,., 08:45:21 -!- cp1134 [n=cmp@unaffiliated/cp1134] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:47:30 -!- krimpet [n=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has quit ["My hosiery is bunching..."] 08:47:57 krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has joined #lisp 08:47:57 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-70-108-121-51.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 08:57:33 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 08:58:13 -!- ayrnieu [n=julianfo@126.sub-70-216-232.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:58:53 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@140.sub-70-216-35.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:15 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-238.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:01:36 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:08:44 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 09:08:49 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 09:10:21 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBAF23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined 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host)] 11:20:55 joga [i=joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 11:21:42 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:21:47 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:22:00 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 11:27:39 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 11:29:00 -!- jao [n=user@13.Red-83-42-109.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:30:54 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:31:05 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 11:32:14 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:32:26 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 11:37:25 Aankhen``: Its bound to the wrong thing 11:38:55 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 11:40:02 Ragnaroek [i=54a66ccf@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dcef162fc3b7fde7] has joined #lisp 11:41:09 Eh what's with that Israel scam that came through all c-l.net lists? 11:46:49 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:47:12 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:47:18 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CA42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:28 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:33 atypic [i=lykkebo@tvilling2.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 11:52:59 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:54:08 tcr: dunno, didn't actually read it 11:57:02 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:01:17 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:16 cmatei [n=cmatei@85.186.180.45] has joined #lisp 12:02:54 tChAnDy [n=debian@201.41.202.246] has joined #lisp 12:04:23 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit [Client Quit] 12:06:00 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:06:10 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:07:25 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:08 tcr: yea, I was hoping someone would be able to learn that to the spam filters. 12:20:09 envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:20:15 -!- envi^laptop [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:23:23 opt9 [n=opt9@59.7.205.138] has joined #lisp 12:24:13 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-85-141.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:02 stassats [n=stassats@ppp91-122-78-139.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 12:40:35 -!- szergling [n=tyc20@125-236-135-147.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has left #lisp 12:43:36 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 12:46:13 -!- stassats` 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[n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:49:34 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:55:49 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:43 heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:06 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:50 drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:08:29 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 15:09:30 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:31 ... If the literal vectors were placed elsewhere, would code-objects then be almost entirely (other than a pointer to the literal vector and the function headers) unboxed data? 15:11:41 (I guess they'd have to be, really... The only literal boxed object references allowed in compiled code are static-symbols...) 15:14:57 drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:15:43 Ohh... I think I might know how to get precise stack scav for lisp frames on x86oids. And I know I've thought this before, but... 15:15:46 -!- drdo [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:16:52 does "precise stack scav" imply precise gc? 15:17:14 Well, sortof, yeah, as the same technique could trivially be applied to the register file. 15:18:05 Basically, if we switch from p-a to the guard-page test for handling interruptability we can build a list of all the points at which a function can be interrupted. 15:18:43 And from there, we can record what parts of the stack frame are live-and-boxed. 15:19:06 And if it's not a call site, we can record the same for the register file. 15:19:25 i wonder if CCL has precise gc on x86* 15:19:43 Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 Probably. They have a different runtime organization, after all. 15:23:43 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:23:48 i guess, precision doesn't come without costs on performance 15:23:51 manuel_ [n=manuel@91.89.250.148] has joined #lisp 15:23:55 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:30:25 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-176-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:59 -!- drdo_ [n=drdo@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:33:42 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:35:39 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:38 -!- opt9 [n=opt9@59.7.205.138] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:38:55 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:40:02 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 15:40:53 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:41:09 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@91.89.250.148] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:04 user___ [n=user@p5492728B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:59 -!- heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has left #lisp 15:49:48 -!- Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:29 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 15:55:03 _roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:43 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:10 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-202-84-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:06:08 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:45 stassats: yes, CCL has precise gc on all platforms. 16:13:29 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 16:13:34 gz: thanks 16:23:34 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:23:41 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:27:49 drewc: herep? 16:29:09 ehu: At 7:30 AM? Really? 16:29:33 nyef: sure. I'm here if I wake up at 6 16:29:41 Fair enough. 16:30:02 but obviously, drew isn't :-) 16:30:52 why are the mailing lists at common-lisp.net being spammed? -_- 16:31:14 H4ns1: here? 16:31:16 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.131] has joined #lisp 16:31:40 madnificent: well, because the spam filters don't detect this, I'd say. 16:31:43 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #lisp 16:31:51 Because they aren't subscriber-only lists? 16:32:44 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:52 I think the guy subscribed. 16:33:54 Hrm. 233meg file. Loading that into SBCL in one shot is probably not a bright idea. 16:34:21 because I was getting his mails in my moderator box in first instance 16:34:39 later, they started showing up in the mailing lists anyway 16:34:59 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:36:27 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:38:13 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:39:02 nyef: re precise stack, give me reliable backtraces and I think I can get them ;) 16:39:06 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:39:10 Heh. 16:40:18 I've said it before, the simplest way to get reliable backtraces is to have call_into_lisp and call_into_c maintain a linked list of non-lisp or lisp stack spaces, and limit the backtracer to those. 16:40:50 hello lispers 16:41:22 kiuma: your list is being spammed, undo that mailsending 16:41:22 hi 16:41:27 kiuma: how are you? 16:41:36 fine thanks 16:41:48 You can't easily backtrace non-lisp code reliably, as the backtrace code is dependent on frame pointers, and frame pointer elision is a very common optimization. 16:42:00 yeah, but we don't care about those anyway. 16:42:02 madnificent, I think there is a problem with common-lisp.net 16:42:21 local-time soffers the same problem 16:43:02 kiuma: yes, I know. Still, I felt I had to blame someone totally not responsible for the problem :) (if anyone besides the poster can be held responsible) 16:43:24 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:43:31 kiuma: some lists don't require subscription to send email 16:43:35 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 16:43:40 madnificent, now I try to ban the user 16:43:48 fe[nl]ix, hi! 16:46:25 hi kiuma 16:48:59 ah there, it's claw-ticket 16:52:44 madnificent, ok protected 16:53:09 madnificent, I think my daughter loves metal ! 16:53:55 I'm playing 4seasons played by satriani, and she's finally sleeping 16:54:12 with a smile painten on her mouth 16:54:21 *painted 16:54:26 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:40 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:54:41 kiuma: that, is cool 16:55:47 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.131] 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[n=krumholt@port-92-202-84-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:12 cool. switching from returning lists to returning multiple values in one of my innermost functions cut the wallclock by 30% 18:58:22 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:23 i should have done that earlier :) 18:58:38 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.223.189] has joined #lisp 18:58:44 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 18:58:50 Yeah, the cost of boxing, unboxing, and GCing can be annoying. 18:59:19 yep. i just didn't know that the impact can be this huge 19:00:17 Depending on your problem, it can be phenomenal. 19:00:40 now my program doesn't cons at all during runtime :) 19:00:52 only in the initialization phase of a run 19:01:10 I learned this lesson early, when I was writing an emulator that used (unsigned-byte 32), (unsigned-byte 33), and (unsigned-byte 48) values all over the place. 19:01:26 similar case here 19:01:28 -!- _roconnor is now known as roconnor 19:02:25 Knocked my runtime from hours to seconds when I eliminated the consing. 19:02:34 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:02:36 Zephtar [n=srusek@d57-112.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:03:18 most of the types used are only (unsigned-byte 16) that shouldn't be a problem 19:03:54 Yeah, their box/unbox cost is a shift. 19:04:36 Far cheaper than a range test, conditional allocation, etc. that anything wider than fixnum gets. 19:04:53 yep 19:08:34 elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has joined #lisp 19:09:55 -!- opt9 [n=swbae@59.7.205.138] has quit ["opt9 has no reason"] 19:14:25 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:20 how do you gain that knowledge? (optimisation) 19:18:46 Experience. 19:18:48 see what explodes 19:18:51 do something different 19:18:53 Experiment. 19:18:57 watch if anything changes 19:18:58 Exposition. 19:18:59 repeat 19:19:01 sbcl hints 19:19:08 those are nice 19:19:17 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:19:32 understanding the cpu and how lisp is mapped to it 19:19:39 thanks. I'll learn over time then :) 19:19:42 with proper hints, sbcl open coded all my internal parsing 19:19:58 hefner: where do you learn that? 19:19:59 -!- mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:19:59 build something that runs long enough to measure 19:20:12 those easy-peasy-webapps don't have that sort of problems, usually 19:20:14 Something I'm considering trying to figure out how to implement is an optimization quality for SBCL that says "must-not-cons", which causes all the places where allocation happens to throw an error instead. 19:20:18 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:27 long enough to care to optimize 19:20:28 I have done some profiling, and I have seen the optimisation messages. I was wondering if there was some resource :) 19:20:38 josemanuel [n=josemanu@139.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:20:39 nyef: that would be neat 19:20:53 And hefner is right, knowing the mapping between the CPU semantics and Lisp semantics is a great help. 19:21:07 DISASSEMBLE is your friend, as are profilers. 19:21:38 it's prerequisite to learning all the compiler-specific trivia, anyway 19:23:15 madnificent: don't use lists in your core 19:24:00 Nothing wrong with lists when they're what the job calls for. 19:24:18 they're also a handy storage cell 19:24:24 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.125] has quit ["Induhvidual Quote: “Is it hot in me or what?”"] 19:24:49 true. but don't cons when you don't need to 19:25:04 especially not in your opcode decoder... 19:25:07 <= stupid 19:25:08 creating arrays is no good too 19:27:34 Heh. I have a decoder which uses VECTOR-PUSH to handle operands. 19:28:33 Admittedly, it's not a speed-critical VM, but still... 19:31:47 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:56 <_6502_> isn't vector-push very fast ? i thought it was like push_back in a preallocated C++ vector... 19:33:19 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:35 Yeah, it's actually decent, speedwise. 19:33:54 -!- lambder [n=lambder@adsl-75-3-81-54.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:34:15 Since you basically bump the fill-pointer, throw if you exceed the length of the vector, and stuff the new value in place. 19:34:19 i guess vector-push-extend is worse 19:34:59 shouldn't be in the default case 19:35:20 Yeah, for the default case, v-p-e is as cheap as v-p. 19:35:24 as vector-push does end-checking, it should be identical to vpe in this regard 19:37:09 vector-push in sbcl will be total crap, speedwise 19:37:30 bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:42 Oh, the other reason having a good working knowledge of the representation of things at the CPU level is that you can then turn around and break all the lisp semantics you have to in order to get a result you want. 19:37:48 jsnell: Let me guess... no inlining? 19:37:52 since vector-push implies a fill-pointer implies nothing will be optimized 19:38:40 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 19:38:40 Oh well, at least it's not a speed-critical VM. 19:38:52 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:01 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:10 Another option, if you need that kind of operation, is to use a simple-vector and keep your own external fill-pointer. 19:39:52 Or to turn around and grab the underlying simple-vector from the one with the fill-pointer and do your data access on -that-. 19:40:27 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:41:20 it would be even nicer if sbcl could have efficient non-simple non-displaced vectors 19:42:04 mxb [n=mxb@bealbywm.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:28 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:45:45 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:48:28 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.182.46] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:49:57 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:52:55 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:55 -!- mxb [n=mxb@unaffiliated/mxb] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1"] 19:55:52 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:00:08 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.17] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:31 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-197.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:03:59 How can I make (in the simpliest way) something like: for(i=0;i<64; i+=8;) ? 20:04:35 I'm trying with dotimes but something is wrong :S 20:04:39 (loop for i to 64 by 8) 20:04:39 (loop for i = 0 upto 64 step 8 do ...) 20:04:59 (dotimes (i 8) (let (i (* i 8)) ...)) 20:05:01 ehu: s/=/from/ but is not needed 20:05:19 ok. thanks. 20:05:24 that was off the top of my head 20:05:30 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl141.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1: SIGINT received; exit"] 20:05:38 I'm the dotimes guy, not loop. 20:05:42 there is for loop in Lisp O_o 20:05:47 Wait, to and upto? Shouldn't that be BELOW? 20:06:02 mrSpec: there's a lot in lisp :) 20:06:10 of by 8 error, big deal 20:06:15 it's not underspecified, but I can't read the spec 20:06:17 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 20:06:19 spooneybarger [n=spooneyb@mobile-166-217-048-086.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:28 hehe thx :) 20:07:13 pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:15 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-178-146-7.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:07:25 Hrm... From an initial examination, it looks like ALSA might not be too difficult to wrap... 20:07:31 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-81.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:09:34 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:10:59 awayekos [n=anekos@pl141.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:11:00 -!- awayekos [n=anekos@pl141.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:13:16 Lisp developers are to learn engineering still. 20:13:29 It is the land of flux and instability. 20:13:52 sounds like life 20:14:08 There's not a single usable implementation around. 20:14:13 who builds stuff that doesn't blow up? 20:14:19 WE DO! 20:14:24 ha! 20:14:25 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:34 Hun: Fire safety engineers? 20:14:44 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:15:08 usually. but testing sucks, as you shouldn't burn everything down in the integration test 20:15:11 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:16:51 CLISP doesn't pass self-tests, ECL doesn't build, SBCL doesn't build, CMUCL isn't ported. 20:16:51 Nice picture. 20:16:51 Win32? 20:16:51 NetBSD. 20:16:54 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 Ah. 20:17:15 and whining on irc doesn't help 20:17:20 *nyef* hasn't run NetBSD since he packed his Performa 400 away. 20:17:22 It isn't any better on FreeBSD either. 20:17:33 hmm step doesnt work but (loop for i from 0 to 64 by 8 do ....) is ok :) 20:17:34 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:17:51 CLISP fails more self-tests, everything else is in same state. 20:18:12 ASau: works very well on Free. Frankly, I think this tells much more about NetBSD than the mythical Lisp. 20:18:30 It is more about Lisp, than real NetBSD. 20:18:59 Engineering is still to be learnt in Lisp land. 20:19:07 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:19:08 i think it is "no many lispers use netbsd" 20:19:59 I know another person, who shares the same view, only reasons differ a bit. 20:19:59 *Hun* has to try out ABCL some day 20:20:44 please, teach us engineering 20:20:58 who does know then, how to engineer cl implementation which runs on every os out there? 20:21:24 why should we support an OS nobody uses? 20:21:30 stassats: pg! 20:21:30 *ehu* starts a flame war 20:21:36 Who is "nobody"? 20:21:42 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 20:21:55 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-238.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:22:07 whoever the shoe fits 20:22:20 Hun: oh well, let's wait another hundred years for it 20:22:34 the first try was... ungreat 20:22:44 the userbase of netbsd is tiny. the userbase of CL is tiny. the intersection of the two is likely to be very small indeed 20:23:02 i say 5. sounds like a nice number 20:23:25 ahem 20:23:27 now, sbcl has provably built on netbsd very recently. maybe it would be productive for you to figure out why it doesn't build for you 20:24:12 because nobody else is going to do it for you 20:24:13 *hefner* doesn't understand people who choose to use obscure operating systems then complain that things don't work there 20:24:14 When are you going to fix bootstrapping? 20:24:34 What do you mean "obscure"? 20:24:36 ASau: when are *you*? 20:24:50 open source fairy will fix it 20:25:05 hefner: Okay, but what about the problems with SBCL/Win32? :-P 20:25:07 stassats: ah! let's wait for her then? 20:25:11 :-) 20:25:12 ehu: someone told rumours that he has patches to address part of the problem. 20:25:23 ...started... 20:25:29 ehu: sure 20:25:58 ASau: how about asking "how's your patch to fix part of the problems with bootstrapping going?" 20:26:05 awayekos [n=anekos@pl141.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:26:08 instead of "hey! fixit! now!" 20:26:09 Can I get them? 20:26:11 stassats: that brings an image to mind of a 2-inch Stallman in a pink tutu with fairy wings and a squeakier voice, 20:26:14 . 20:26:18 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 20:26:26 what problem with bootstrapping? 20:26:47 Note, that I don't ask "fix it now", not the way you paint it. 20:27:14 Why bootstrapping stopped working after 1.0.4 or 1.0.5? 20:27:14 <[df]> sykopomp: I'm going to have nightmares about that now :( 20:27:22 ok. but your statement comes accros to me that way. "When are you going to fix it" 20:27:39 sorry then 20:27:51 ASau: I don't know what you mean by that. be assured that if bootstrapping sbcl didn't work, nobody could build it 20:27:58 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:35 my guess: he means building from clisp 20:30:01 If there exists way to build from ecl, it is enough. 20:30:03 well, that wouldn't help him, since clisp doesn't work on his platform either 20:30:15 it does, just doesn't pass self-tests 20:30:28 Yes, because building from an implementation that occasionally decides that (function X) is not a good thing to declare ignorable is really a useful thing to do... 20:30:32 ASau: there doesn't. Both clisp and ecl are too buggy to build sbcl 20:30:58 on the other hand, xcl should be able to build sbcl, and xcl is entirely implemented in C++ 20:31:11 rejoice! And learn some manners for next time 20:31:41 doesn't sbcl.org's binary work? 20:32:30 I can see why port maintainers might not want to go that way 20:33:00 of course it is then pretty rude to ascribe failures due to their prejudices to a failure of engineering 20:33:09 Krystof: I thought XCL was only bootstrapped with C++... 20:33:24 what do you think that means? 20:33:34 not 'entirely implemented' 20:33:39 whatever 20:34:11 is anything known about the future of XCL? 20:34:31 stassats: if it needs to come from piso, then there probably is none 20:34:50 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-202-84-94.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:34:53 the reason I'm working on ABCL is because he doesn't have time to do lisp 20:35:01 (or much programming, I believe) 20:35:28 doxtor [n=doxtor@89-212-180-254.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:31 well, we have to wait for the open source fairy then 20:35:44 really this time 20:35:56 *squeaky voice*: Freedom! Freedom! *waves wand* 20:36:01 *hefner* is frightened of the gifts the open source fairy leaves under the pillow 20:36:15 hefner: a Free BIOS?! 20:36:41 with built-in lisp interpreter 20:36:43 stassats: does it work on any reasonable system or still requires particular version of libraries? 20:36:59 This is the problem with all binary packages. 20:37:12 ASau: xcl? worked on linux-x86_64 for me 20:37:19 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:37:26 -!- _6502_ [n=agri@94.36.245.185] has left #lisp 20:37:26 user___ [n=user@p5492728B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:43 I've only started testing xcl, it _is_ really exotic. I was talking about binary SBCL package. 20:39:18 well, download it and you will see 20:40:57 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 20:41:07 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 20:41:10 huh. How much of XCL works so far? I'm building it :) 20:42:41 -!- anekos [n=anekos@pl141.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1: SIGTERM received; exit"] 20:43:48 afternoon 20:43:54 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:07 oh well. It didn't work :( 20:44:42 sykopomp: what didn't? 20:44:50 XCL. 20:44:52 seems to be missing a file. 20:45:16 ok. so none of it. I thought that there may be *some* thing not working, but not all. 20:45:25 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@139.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 20:47:08 anekos [n=anekos@pl141.nas923.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:48:10 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:48:51 what is :shadowing-import-form used for? 20:49:00 nothing 20:49:06 :shadowing-import-from, on the other hand 20:50:00 yeah, s/form/from :) 20:50:11 clhs defpackage 20:50:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 20:50:25 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:28 thx 20:53:09 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-32-137.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:56:20 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:57:31 sykopomp: you gave up too soon 20:57:43 building xcl needs a couple of minor patches, but it works 20:57:47 CL-USER(1): (* 2 3) 20:57:48 6 20:57:48 CL-USER(2): (lisp-implementation-type) 20:57:48 "XCL" 20:58:36 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:38 nice 20:59:11 _sana [n=sana@p22.eregie.pub.ro] has joined #lisp 20:59:17 -!- schoppen1auer is now known as schoppenhauer 20:59:19 one #include to make gmp compile, one #include to make AbstractString.cpp happy 20:59:31 and #include to rule them all 20:59:36 s/and/one 21:00:26 that must be because of new gcc, damn gcc people who don't know engineering 21:00:56 that must be it 21:01:13 everyone knows that real engineers use ADA 21:01:35 and VHDL 21:02:43 Krystof: Yeah, the gmp issue is the one I ran into. I'd like to try it, but I think i should wait a little longer :) 21:03:22 josemanuel [n=josemanu@139.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:04:02 sykopomp: until someone will pick it up? you can be the one! 21:04:49 stassats: XCL? It's already being worked on. I'm just incompetent when it comes to working with something like C++ so I wouldn't be able to really get it to work :( 21:05:13 sykopomp: who works on it? 21:06:31 I thought the guy who does/did ABCL is working on it. Maybe I misread the conversation (or missed something) 21:07:08 he doesn't have much time for lisp currently 21:07:27 Setting RPATH to $(CURDIR) is nice, really. :) 21:07:39 oh. That's too bad, then. 21:07:56 Keith_M_ [n=keith@oit-134-176.oit.edu] has joined #lisp 21:08:23 stassats: please don't take my comments on something not working as a 'fix it!' I was just mentioning that I was trying it out. 21:08:34 ASau: NetBSD is nice 21:09:05 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:09:19 sykopomp: too late, i already took them in that way 21:09:53 stassats: you're a meaniehead. :( 21:13:04 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:13:34 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 21:18:31 does sbcl fail any of the ansi tests? 21:19:48 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:22:16 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:56 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:23:00 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.131] has joined #lisp 21:24:30 probably around 40 21:25:10 funny: abcl fails 44, however there's a lot to be wished for. 21:26:15 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-223-135.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:28:25 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 21:28:36 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:30:24 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:31:21 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32:13 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-32-137.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:32:29 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp-94-68-81-51.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:32:37 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:09 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:34:23 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 21:36:13 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:39:50 -!- _sana [n=sana@p22.eregie.pub.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:41:06 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:42:33 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@bzq-79-178-146-7.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:42:41 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:43:02 -!- __death is now known as _death 21:43:14 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:45:10 anyone in here played with liskell ? 21:45:23 I got it installed last night but can't compile the tests 21:47:06 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:47:24 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 21:47:57 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 21:48:43 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:49:23 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:36 what do you all use on the mac ? clisp / sbcl ? 21:55:09 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:27 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:55:28 -!- wolfboy22 [i=baumgold@tithonus.cs.brandeis.edu] has left #lisp 21:55:29 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-22-131.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:56:17 hmm 21:56:19 <_3b> dysinger: sbcl or ccl probably 21:56:41 ccl is clisp ? 21:56:45 or another ? 21:56:58 I am on macports looking - i have clisp installed and working 21:57:10 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:58:01 ccl is former openmcl 21:58:10 <_3b> clozure common lisp 21:58:13 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:58:28 I'm sure there are some zetalisp diehards out there. 21:58:41 -Someone- surely still has a working MacIvory. 21:58:52 i use sbcl on my OSX machine. 21:58:54 <_3b> clisp is probably a reasonable place to start too, if you have it working 21:59:31 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:59:40 _3b: too late 22:03:52 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DC89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:26 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-253-197.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 22:05:50 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:07:45 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:11 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:09:48 -!- sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:10:21 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:10:58 vy [n=user@88.227.111.137] has joined #lisp 22:11:09 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:28 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.152.102] has joined #lisp 22:15:13 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:16:25 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:17:03 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:05 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:39 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:20:29 -!- foom [n=jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:21:55 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:13 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@82.49.201.240] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:22:48 posix grantpt 22:22:48 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/grantpt.html 22:23:01 mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has joined #lisp 22:26:30 -!- joachifm [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp457.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:29:17 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-151-10.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:31:48 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@139.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:42:44 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DC89.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:42:44 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:43:34 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 22:46:11 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.152.102] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:48:37 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:18 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:49:43 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:49:59 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:50:23 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:50:30 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:53:40 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:54:41 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0DC89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:29 -!- mstevens [n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org] has quit ["leaving"] 22:58:14 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:59:36 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:00:22 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:02:12 etfb [n=etfb@ppp59-167-43-178.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:48 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:43 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:05:19 -!- user___ [n=user@p5492728B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:05:42 sykopomp: http://github.com/dto/clon/tree/master :-) 23:06:11 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:07:17 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:07:24 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:43 mlLK [n=chatzill@c-98-220-171-58.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:28 "it is likely that a 3D context based on OpenGL ES will be added [to the mozilla implementation of ]" I like where this is heading. 23:11:00 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:12:13 -!- vy [n=user@88.227.111.137] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:12:20 KucukMubasir1 [n=Halliday@85.97.61.114] has joined #lisp 23:17:05 Making Mozilla even more bloatware? 23:17:35 Yes. Yes, that's what fuss meant. 23:17:51 *nyef* clearly forgot a #\s. 23:18:01 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:18:07 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-179-113-121.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:08 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 23:20:41 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:06 nyef: Did you know about... http://www.international-lisp-conference.org/2005/speakers.html ... search for USB 23:25:44 No, news to me. 23:25:57 I note that it works on the two mainstream platforms I don't actually care about. 23:26:22 *nyef* grabs the audio. 23:26:46 They use Lispworks, probably. 23:26:52 Oh, probably. 23:26:59 After all, who would use a -free- lisp? 23:28:08 ooh, audio. 23:28:15 Well, it's university-related work, and they use Common Lisp since before 2000 (at which time the Open Source Lisp world looked differently, I think.) 23:28:40 -!- KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:28:54 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:29:23 It doesn't seem they really published the code, but I have contact to Klassner due to something else; I'll ask him about Cluc. 23:32:02 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:32:08 nyef: Have you written something about sb-usb I could point to? 23:32:19 mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 23:33:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:15 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:33:17 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:55 fiveop [n=fiveop@pD9E6C36F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:01 tcr: Other than the release (as lh-usb)? No. 23:34:18 http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/lh-usb/ 23:35:37 Alright thanks! 23:36:42 What are you actually up to, anyway? 23:37:25 I initially sent a mail to him about RCXLisp which they use to program Lego Mindstorms robots. 23:37:35 Encountered that usb thingie incidentally 23:37:36 Ahh. 23:38:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 23:39:39 Gotta go, tell me what you think about the audio talk (via memo) 23:39:52 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-105.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:40:09 -!- jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:40:13 jsnell [n=jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:15 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:41:39 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-22-131.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:42:53 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:38 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:18 -!- Keith_M_ [n=keith@oit-134-176.oit.edu] has left #lisp 23:44:18 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:24 Yuuhi` [i=benni@p5483D24B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:54 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:50:47 -!- Hun [n=hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:03 fusss: clon has some problems and is mainly designed for games, but could be promising for other purposes if improved. there are notes on cliki about it though. 23:51:16 fusss: Boston Lisp Conference, , check boston-lisp.org 23:51:38 dto: Speaking of games, I'm thinking that it wouldn't be -too- hard to provide a set of wrappers around ALSA for SBCL. 23:52:08 hefner: some of them are shots of a roguelike editor/authoring environment based on "cell-mode" which is an abstract spreadsheet display/dataflow engine for Emacs that i'm presently rewriting 23:52:38 nyef: a friend of mine on here was trying to get SBCL to interface with JACK, and it didn't work out well because of the callback nature, but ALSA could work 23:53:02 nyef: right now I have access to lispbuilder-sdl-mixer, which will let me play wavs, oggs, and .xms (even triggering specific numbered patterns in the xms :) 23:53:53 Ooh. 23:54:13 And, yeah, the whole jack/callback thing keeps getting discussed. 23:54:44 ah, i thought it was only happening on #rlx :) 23:54:55 It's one of those things that could probably be made to work by one of the sbcl gurus, but it's not a priority for them. 23:55:38 The basic problem is actually mentioned in one of the SBCL/Win32 lists as an "opportunity for excellence". 23:55:49 i like that phrase 23:56:13 -!- scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:56:18 no, no, what we need is a CL thing for authoring NSF tunes 23:56:18 scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 23:56:37 xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:56:58 *nyef* adds "spc player" to his potential projects list. 23:58:37 dto: http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/threading-notes.txt is it. 23:59:06 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483CA42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:59:11 Although the actual case is listed under "situations we need to allow for", not "opportunities for excellence".