00:01:25 aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:57 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:03:13 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:03:56 I'm trying to call an accessor on a slot like this: http://pastebin.com/d6d81cea4, but I get "The function |(value of name)| is undefined." 00:04:23 how do I go about using a string to set a symbol to reference a slot? 00:04:23 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p3228-ipbf2305marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 00:05:29 <_3b> first, the reader probably converts strings to uppercase when it makes symbols 00:06:10 <_3b> second, you will probably run into problems with packages if you intern in to the current *package* 00:06:36 is there a way to do what I'm trying to do without interning? 00:06:45 <_3b> what is the larger goal? 00:07:21 <_3b> and where does name come from? 00:07:56 I'm parsing an xml stream that may or may not be in a consistent order, so I'm trying to get a general way to setf a slot without a long (cond ...) to set up the mapping. 00:07:59 name is a string 00:08:33 <_3b> i mean more does it come from a trusted source 00:08:43 oh, yeah. it's trusted. 00:09:15 <_3b> ok, so don't have to worry about someone passing "quit" or something :) 00:09:15 you could try by binding *package* to what you think it should be, *read-eval* to nil and then calling read-from-string. 00:09:22 right 00:09:31 and hope they're don't send you #.#1=#=1 00:09:51 realtime [i=sabbath@189-30-253-108.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:10:03 <_3b> you could use a hash table to map strings to symbols 00:10:19 <_3b> or to functions 00:10:46 _3b: yeah, I thought of that too, but that's really no better than the (cond ...). The whole point is to not have a list to maintain because I'm already making my object slots have accessors that mirror the tags that will appear in the xml stream 00:10:54 <_3b> or just use intern, it isn't inherently a bad idea, as long as you know what it does :) 00:11:13 *aggieben* goes to hyperspec to read more about intern and packages 00:11:46 -!- krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has quit ["changing servers"] 00:12:06 <_3b> or maybe find-symbol, since you shouldn't be adding new symbols anyway 00:12:45 ooh, that's googd 00:12:47 good 00:15:53 aggieben: if the accessors are just slots (and not other methods that apply to the class), then doesn't the class definition maintain the list for you? 00:16:10 aggieben_ [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:13 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:24 hmm. find-symbol finds the right symbol, but when I try to FUNCALL it, the debugger says the function is undefined 00:16:28 -!- moocow is now known as holycow 00:17:48 <_3b> right symbol in right package? 00:18:04 aggieben_: you need (funcall (symbol-function (intern "function-name" :package))) 00:18:37 yeah, I was just seeing that using a symbol as a function designator to funcall has undefined results 00:19:46 is this supposed to work for methods as well as functions? 00:20:12 <_3b> where is funcall on symbols undefined? 00:20:24 <_death> aggieben: where did you see that? 00:20:46 I didn't. I'm flailing about like a chicken with no head :-) 00:20:49 krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has joined #lisp 00:21:03 <_3b> (funcall (find-symbol ...) ...) seems to work here, what does your current version look like? 00:21:43 MY-PACKAGE> (symbol-function (find-symbol "id") object) 00:22:06 <_3b> you should probably be specifying a package to find-symbol 00:22:08 produces "The function |id| is undefined" like before 00:22:15 <_3b> "ID' 00:22:18 <_death> aggieben: symbol-function takes one argument 00:22:21 I've tried that. Same results. 00:22:25 _death: yeah, irc typo 00:22:44 here's what produced the error: (symbol-function (find-symbol "id")) 00:22:55 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2F48F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung."] 00:23:00 <_3b> (funcall (find-symbol (string-upcase name) :my-package) args...) 00:23:07 that doesn't work either 00:23:18 aggieben_: what do you get for #'id 00:23:43 # 00:24:22 <_death> aggieben: so the function's name is the symbol `id' 00:24:28 yes 00:24:41 <_death> aggieben: now, what is the name of the symbol `id'? 00:25:09 I thought a symbol's name was itself 00:25:21 <_3b> (symbol-name 'id) 00:25:44 id 00:25:54 <_death> aggieben: no 00:26:04 <_3b> are you using one of the commercial lisps? 00:26:16 I think I see what's going on. There is no symbol 'id 00:26:20 <_death> 3b: maybe ImaginaryLisp 00:26:37 there's a generic function called 'id, but not a symbol 00:26:43 <_death> aggieben: the name of a symbol is always a string 00:26:54 _3b: sbcl 00:27:38 <_death> aggieben: did you try (symbol-name 'id) in the toplevel? 00:27:45 yeah. it prints "ID" 00:27:55 <_death> aggieben: right. "ID" is the name of the symbol `id' 00:28:12 <_death> aggieben: now let's try and find this symbol using its name.. (find-symbol "ID") 00:28:35 _death: didn't we do that a long time ago? 00:28:50 <_death> aggieben: ? 00:29:00 (find-symbol "ID") produces exactly the same thing as (find-symbol "id"), which we did a while back 00:29:15 <_death> aggieben: are you quite sure about that? 00:29:18 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:29:29 <_death> aggieben: try (eq (find-symbol "ID") (find-symbol "id")) and see what it returns 00:29:36 <_3b> (eq (find-symbol "ID") (find-symbol "id")) ? 00:29:42 *_3b* types too slow 00:29:48 nil 00:29:55 <_death> aggieben: what does that tell you? 00:29:56 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 00:30:12 interesting 00:30:15 <_3b> the one names "id" is probably from running the intern earlier, so doesn't name anything useful 00:30:20 <_death> aggieben: Lisp's reader is case-sensitive 00:30:45 _death: ok, thanks. I was assuming that the two outputs on the repl meant that the objects being printed were the same 00:30:53 which obviously wasn't correct 00:31:15 <_death> aggieben: the two outputs were different 00:31:23 <_death> aggieben: |id| is different from id 00:31:29 _death: didn't know that 00:32:10 aggieben_: you want to create lisp objects from an xml serialisation? 00:32:20 tomsw: yes 00:33:14 aggieben_: so some part of the xml determines the class, some other parts specify the slot names & corresponding values? 00:33:18 <_death> aggieben: now you know that there's a function whose name is the symbol `id', and the name of the symbol `id' is "ID" 00:33:36 <_death> aggieben: so (funcall (find-symbol "ID") whatever) should call that function 00:33:58 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:34:02 _death: yep, it's working now. thanks a lot 00:34:09 -!- flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:34:12 tomsw: yes 00:34:35 *aggieben_* is sensing a doh! moment coming on 00:35:14 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has joined #lisp 00:35:17 <_death> (of course, I am simplifying.. e.g., functions don't have names, |id| isn't necessarily different from id, etc.) 00:35:23 aggieben_: no, it's not like that. But you said you didn't want to maintain a list of slots, etc, which makes complete sense - since you must have already done that work when you defined your classes 00:35:28 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-029-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:33 tomsw: exaclty 00:36:00 aggieben_: so use reflection instead of giving some xml file the run of the entire lisp language 00:36:11 flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has joined #lisp 00:36:13 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:36:43 tomsw: isn't that kind of what I'm doing? 00:37:36 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:37:42 aggieben_: you're blindling interning strings from an xml file and then trying to call the resulting functions - where's the reflection in that? 00:37:55 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:16 tomsw: looks just like reflection from other platforms to me. what are you thinking of? 00:40:18 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:32 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has joined #lisp 00:42:09 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:42:37 aggieben_: asking the classes involved for a list of valid slot names, checking whether the xml tag or whatever corresponds to a valid slot name. looking up and using the appropriate conversion function to turn the xml (string) representation of the slot value into the correct typed value, and then assigning it to the slot 00:42:47 aggieben_: intern does not do this for you 00:44:06 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-63-242.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:44:43 tomsw: got any examples showing how to do all that? Or at least a pointer to a function or two? 00:45:06 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:17 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:29 aggieben_: aha, you've got me there. class-direct-slots, then things like slot-definition-writers 00:45:43 aggieben_: but there might be an easier way: make-instance 00:45:52 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-036-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:56 probably a good mop reference will get me more than I ever wanted to know 00:46:33 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has joined #lisp 00:46:41 aggieben_: yes. My brain always melts when I try and find out MOP stuff from the reference 00:47:21 it sounds cool, but I think it may be overkill for my application. I'm just reading from an atom feed, and atom has a well-known schema. 00:47:36 I just define my slot names to correspond to atom elements, and that's all she wrote 00:47:57 aggieben_: but honestly, if you can turn your xml into a list of the form (class-name ((slot-name "value)*)) then you can call make-instance on each item of the list 00:48:45 I'm sure there's a way to do that using reflection, but I'm nearly as sure it would be much harder than what I"m currently doing 00:51:33 knobo` [n=user@ti100710a080-2364.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:51:51 ianmcorvidae|alt [n=ianmcorv@student167-193.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 00:53:01 -!- mvr [n=mitchell@d122-105-153-112.rdl13.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:53:01 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:53:01 -!- cupe_ [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 00:53:01 -!- dlowe 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[n=arubin@dsl081-148-047.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:01 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:29 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:41 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:37 hmm. Ok, this isn't working like I thought it would. I guess what I'm actually after is holding a reference to a place to be used by setf 00:59:41 Ginei_Morioka [i=irssi_lo@78.114.180.138] has joined #lisp 01:00:09 I want (curent-slot object) to refer to another slot, and what I was trying to do is write (setf (current-slot object) value) 01:00:14 <_3b> have you checked to see if any of the existing xml libs can do what you want? 01:00:40 -!- patmaddox [n=pergesu@wsip-70-168-157-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 01:00:41 _3b: yes, and they do to varying degrees. I'm using s-xml right now, and it seems like the best fit 01:01:06 <_death> maybe you want (setf (slot-value object (find-symbol "ID")) whatever) 01:03:23 cods [n=cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:25 aggieben_: if you just need to create instances, can't you avoid setf completely by turning your xml into something you can easily call make-instance against? Then you'd just end up with a list of instances. 01:03:36 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:05:10 aggieben_: this stuff is a cxml addon that parses an xml into clos objects. may be what you are looking for... http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-l10n-cl-l10n;a=headblob;f=/flexml.lisp 01:05:29 this is an example how to use it: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-l10n-cl-l10n;a=headblob;f=/src/cldr-parsing.lisp 01:05:49 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-52-157.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:58 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 01:06:21 that second link is an example of usage? 01:06:28 yes 01:06:40 wow. that's a complicated example. 01:06:49 _death: slot-value did the trick 01:07:08 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:15 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 01:07:23 aggieben_: this is another one, using a bit earlier version of flexml: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=fetter-verrazano;a=headblob;f=/src/frontend/parser.lisp 01:07:29 rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-161-3.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:40 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:44 I'll look more into the cxml addon and reflection too, because I've got more xml parsing projects coming up 01:07:56 cavelife [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has joined #lisp 01:08:21 -!- Hexstream [n=hexstrea@modemcable240.109-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:08:32 attila_lendvai: cl-I10n is the name of the library? 01:09:03 aggieben_: basic idea is to look up classes in a given package, if not found use a base class for nodes. then store attributes in a hashtable if there's no slot for the attribute. supports id resolving, slot types to parse string attribute values, ... 01:09:32 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 01:10:04 aggieben_: nope, it's called flexml. i've posted it to cxml, but it was rejected because the lack of docs... and i didn't bother to climb the fence... 01:10:13 yeah, I saw that 01:10:14 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 01:10:47 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [] 01:11:39 the cool thing about it is that you can use generics to implement various algorithms that process the resulting tree of nodes 01:12:07 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:12:55 although if inheritance is not used much then some macrology on a mere dom tree can be of the same elegance... 01:13:14 tiremeal [i=sabbath@189.73.182.48] has joined #lisp 01:13:24 <_death> that looks interesting, attila 01:13:53 attila_lendvai: sounds way complicated for my simple atom feed reader, but I'm about to start looking at some ofx applications, and ofx is also way complicated :-) 01:14:23 god, _death is interested in me! i knew i should have gone to sleep instead... :) 01:14:58 <_death> in you, your code! save-lisp-and-die! 01:16:06 heh... for now i'd prefer save-lisp-and-sleep... :) 01:16:16 so, gn 01:16:43 <_death> night 01:17:11 is there a simple way to get the (seventh) and all the ones after it in a list? 01:17:24 <_death> nthcdr 01:17:27 kk 01:19:53 g'day 01:20:00 -!- tiremeal [i=sabbath@189.73.182.48] has quit [] 01:20:59 oooh....XMLisp 01:21:12 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:24:55 yikes. 188 errors when compiled with sbcl 01:25:43 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:27:06 tomsw: looks like XMLisp does exactly what you were talking about 01:31:05 -!- realtime [i=sabbath@189-30-253-108.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:31:25 aggieben_: nice 01:32:09 aggieben_: come to think of it there is a familiar circular spokey kind of feel to the problem 01:32:15 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:11 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:34 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:36:52 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 01:37:37 is there already a function that will take a list and convert it to a list? 01:37:52 identity? 01:40:58 <_death> minion: memo for attila_lendvai: looks like cl-l10n is b0rked, looking for `nreversef' 01:40:58 Remembered. I'll tell attila_lendvai when he/she/it next speaks. 01:43:02 _death: you need to update alexandria 01:43:42 <_death> felix: hmm.. "No remote changes to pull in!" from Luis's repo 01:44:16 chrismay [n=user@d83-176-132-50.cust.tele2.de] has joined #lisp 01:44:29 the official repo is http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/darcs/alexandria 01:45:44 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:46:48 having problems with clisp+modprep+libcurl, do you help me, please? http://83.176.132.50/state/modprep 01:47:09 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:31 schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has joined #lisp 01:49:32 __death [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 01:50:55 <__death> minion: discard my memos 01:50:56 You didn't have any memos! 01:50:59 brown [n=user@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 01:51:02 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:51:29 -!- brown is now known as Guest2120 01:52:04 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit ["bb"] 01:53:49 _YKY_ [i=YKY@116.49.204.95] has joined #lisp 01:54:15 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:54:19 <_YKY_> CLISP does not support dotted lists? 01:55:12 <__death> what do you mean 01:55:14 What? 01:55:25 <_YKY_> Can I use a thing like (a . b) in code 01:55:29 yes 01:55:30 <__death> of course 01:55:33 mikezor_ [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:55:39 '(a . b) 01:55:40 <_YKY_> But it gives an error... 01:56:07 <__death> maybe you're doing it wrong.. 01:56:18 <_YKY_> Oh... I forgot the quote 01:56:35 <_YKY_> That gives a strange error msg 01:56:45 :) 01:56:49 <__death> try (+ . (1 . (2 . nil))) 01:57:19 <_YKY_> Heh... interesting 01:57:19 -!- mikezor [n=mikael@c-75ec70d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:57:25 <_YKY_> Why does that work 01:57:47 <__death> because it's the same as (+ 1 2) 01:58:12 <_YKY_> Ohhhh I see 01:59:35 not so easy to see for me :) 02:02:54 -!- _death [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:04:14 (+ . (1 . (2 . 10))) 02:04:19 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-52-157.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:04:31 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 02:04:58 chrismay: A proper list, e.g. (+ 1 2), is always terminated by nil. 02:06:48 (apply #'+ (cons 1 (cons 2 10))) 02:15:24 (quit sayoonara) 02:15:33 -!- chrismay [n=user@d83-176-132-50.cust.tele2.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:17:50 -!- TDT_ is now known as TDT 02:18:13 noooooooooo......just lost a monitor....... 02:21:49 -!- tomsw [n=user@43.230-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:21:52 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 02:23:26 <_YKY_> Can you still see this? 02:23:35 <_YKY_> Hehe 02:23:42 yeah. down to one monitor, and lots of Alt-tab 02:25:44 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 02:40:57 very cool. XMLisp actually enables the reader to accept xml directly 02:41:26 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:42 Zhivago [n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:03 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:51:02 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:54:07 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fecade00-157.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 02:54:17 emma [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:55:42 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@rrcs-72-43-187-82.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:57:09 -!- ZabaQ [n=jconnors@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:57:38 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:54 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:59:04 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:00:57 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A0E17.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:08:07 <_3b> hmm, wonder if i should wory about trying to minimize strings of nested trivial lambdas 03:08:32 -!- araujo [n=araujo@190.37.166.81] has quit [Client Quit] 03:08:51 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:09:24 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:51 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:12:15 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 03:13:00 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:16:15 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:02 -!- Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:20:30 heyman [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has joined #lisp 03:21:06 -!- heyman [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has left #lisp 03:21:19 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has joined #lisp 03:22:40 <_3b> is there any way for conformant code to distinguish between (let* ((a (a1)) (b (b1)) (c (c1))) ...) and (let ((a (a1)) (b (b1)) (c (c1))) ...) if none of a b or c are special? 03:23:34 <_3b> (and none of a1 b1 or c1 are macros expanding to use of preceding vars) 03:23:35 <__death> (defmacro b1 () 'a) 03:23:37 <__death> :) 03:24:09 <__death> I don't think so then 03:24:12 <_3b> yeah, forgot about macros since i've already expanded them by the time i get here 03:24:48 -!- rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-161-3.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:25:29 <_3b> guess i should probably just ignore it for now, and put in a fixme comment or something 03:25:47 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25:59 just go flame the lisp newsgroup 03:26:17 *_3b* is allergic to newsgroups 03:26:33 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:27:03 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:28:55 netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:02 question: I'm trying to do (fdefinition 'symbol), and check whether the returned object is a particular function vs any other function. Is there a portable way to do this? 03:29:03 <_3b> there is no way to modify the lexical binding of a function, right? 03:29:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:29:37 I'm trying to check whether something is a regular function before I clobber it, instead of just getting the standard style-warning. 03:29:49 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:29:58 (in the case of sbcl) 03:30:44 kmkaplan_ [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 03:30:45 <_3b> what is it warning about? 03:31:17 _3b: you mean, outside that function? 03:31:39 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has joined #lisp 03:31:43 <_3b> stassats: anywhere 03:32:00 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:32:13 sbcl gives a style warning, but that's not really the point. The point is that I want to check if a function is a specific function or not (in which case the algo keeps going, otherwise it signals an error) 03:32:13 well, you can modify lexical binding if you are in its scope 03:32:35 you can't portably check function identity 03:32:46 hrm 03:33:01 <_3b> stassats: of functions? how? fdefinition/symbol-function modify global binding, so you can't setf those, and flet/labels would make new bindings, right? 03:33:08 should I start going through different implementations, or is there a recommended way of doing this? 03:33:29 _3b: you can setf fdefinition 03:33:53 <_3b> sykopomp: right, but it doesn't change the lexical binding, just the global one... sorry i'm not being very clear :/ 03:34:06 oh, I see 03:34:18 _3b: oh, you meant that 03:34:24 is it guaranteed that the function is not a closure? 03:34:41 -!- Cronos [n=a@5ad41103.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 03:34:41 no. I guess I should use defun instead of (setf fdefinition)? 03:35:46 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 03:36:04 anyways, to be more specific about what I'm trying to do... I'm writing the methods part of an object system. I would like to be able to make sure there's at least a proper warning if the method being defined clobbers a non-method definition (as in, either a regular defun, or a CLOS generic function) 03:36:49 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:36:51 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:32 and what's you own method function? 03:39:04 a lambda wrapping the method-dispatch function 03:39:42 wait. No lambda. Just a function 03:39:56 well, a lambda is just a function... 03:40:08 you should be able to check that with eq, then 03:40:11 (defun foo-method (arg1) (dispatch-method 'foo-method arg1)) 03:40:34 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-62.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 03:41:06 the thing that's implementation-defined is comparison of closures binding over the same values, which are allowed to either be eq or not 03:42:26 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 03:43:34 -!- aggieben_ [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has left #lisp 03:44:15 you can keep track of your own methods, and if it is a function/method/macro and is not in the list of your methods, emit warnings 03:44:59 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:45:00 stassats: and they're guaranteed to be eq if they're the same? (sounds silly, but there's the numbers thing...) 03:45:09 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-134-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:11 or should I just use eql? :P 03:45:37 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:46:23 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 03:46:37 I want a Symbolics cell phone. 03:47:18 I'm pretty sure they never made one. 03:47:33 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:47:41 But if they did it would have had a really cool keyboard. 03:48:15 *_3b* was just about to ask if it would have super,meta, and hyper keys 03:48:22 http://world.std.com/~jdostale/kbd/SpaceCadet1.jpeg <-- great cell phone kb, imo 03:49:16 what the heck is "Rub Out"... 03:49:26 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:29 <_3b> a delete variant 03:49:41 Rub out is what you used to do with a pink eraser. 03:49:58 That must have been one of the earliest metaphors. 03:50:24 it also seems to have a "GREEK" key. 03:50:27 I put a view of the mandlebrot set on my cell phone as the background 03:50:29 We really should have this on all cellphones 03:50:34 Although curser (that thing you cuss at) probably predated it. 03:50:41 but if I had a symbolics cell phone 03:50:53 ...the view would constantly change 03:51:10 (pretty colors) 03:51:34 <_3b> using GPS coords as input to a fractal desktop image could be fun (for portable devices at least :) 03:51:43 exactly. 03:51:43 It would be cool to have a 3 axis accelerometer in your phone and have it integrate the acceleration to find position and be able to navigate the mandelbrot by walking around the neighborhood. 03:52:11 right, and that wouldn't be that hard to hack 03:52:12 You're all on crack. <-: 03:52:23 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 03:52:26 *tessier* passes z0d the pipe 03:52:32 150 lines of code 03:52:52 lisp code? 03:52:54 actually I'm eating coffee beans again 03:53:07 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442793.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:53:55 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:07 Seriously, why even have a cell phone in the first place? 03:54:22 symbolics brain implant? 03:54:52 I'm pretty disappointed with the entire state of mobile computing these days :( 03:54:52 schme: Because it's damn useful? 03:54:56 Anything that makes you more accessible outside of home / work == crap 03:55:03 tessier: I've never noticed that. 03:55:06 sykopomp: I'm just disappointed that it isn't more open hardwarewise 03:55:12 <_3b> schme: thats what never answering the phone is for :) 03:55:18 schme: When you get stranded somewhere you'll find out 03:55:21 -!- kmkaplan_ [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:55:39 tessier: But then there is no mobile network to use it on! 03:55:51 hmm.. 03:56:08 use gps 03:56:08 It seems to be that after the zaurus the whole mobile computing has been going downhill. 03:56:23 I seem to remember sony marketing something as the smallest computer just some time ago. 03:56:26 -!- krimpet [i=fran@wikimedia/Krimpet] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:56:29 yet mine is smaller. They lie! 03:56:36 anyway. off to work :) 03:56:40 haev a good day you people! 03:56:53 it's almost bedtime 03:56:53 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442793.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 03:57:31 manic12: 5 am man! 03:57:40 *schme* pops off 03:58:04 in europe 03:58:10 7am here 03:58:31 schme: 5am? where? 03:58:41 Sweden, i guess 03:59:23 doesn't anyone have a day job? 03:59:57 i don't have 04:00:11 Currently I don't have either. 04:00:26 if I don't get to work on time tomorrow i might not have 04:00:31 Just left my former workplace. 04:00:39 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:00:45 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:01:05 AW MAN bike got a flat tire! 04:01:11 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:01:11 Now I have to wait for the BUS. 04:01:19 manic12: I have a day job. 04:01:25 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-181-59.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:01:46 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:01:47 shouldn't you be brushing your teeth? 04:02:00 brushing my teeth .. ? 04:02:18 I did that two hours ago! 04:02:28 early riser? 04:02:33 Sure. 04:02:45 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 04:02:51 I like the morning. 04:03:05 I like it too, if I don't have to get up. 04:03:07 3 am also is the best time to hit the gym. 04:03:08 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:03:16 'cause well.. it's all empty. 04:03:27 and very nice for coding me thinks. 04:03:31 (not the gym) 04:03:33 heh. 04:04:20 I assume most people do best code within 2 hours of waking up, then it steadily declines in quality. 04:04:27 Or they are broken. 04:04:27 I sport at 8pm and 9pm 04:04:35 shit. 04:04:51 I did that too back in my MA days. :) 04:05:01 for some reason no one came to the classes in the morning. 04:05:10 rLY strangE 04:05:20 I spit out my best code between 11 and 5am 04:05:24 11pm* 04:05:27 :| 04:05:37 Ok. 04:05:40 sykopomp: You be broken then :) 04:05:47 within 5 hours of waking? 04:05:48 Yeah, it's better to code in the evening. 04:05:55 I should get some jogging shoes so I did not have to wait for the bus :( 04:06:01 hmmm.. 04:06:06 Ilike sleeping in the evening. 04:06:12 I can't code in the morning. I feel too rushed. Late night is the only time when I *feel* as if I have all the time in the world. 04:06:26 sykopomp: Get up 2hrs earlier :) reduces the stress! 04:06:30 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:42 though I get stress in the evening. 04:06:55 when it hits 7pm and one goes "SHIt! I NEED TO GET TO BED!" 04:06:58 I guess it evens out. 04:07:05 schme: I've been waking up pretty early lately. It's nice, but it hasn't driven me to code much. I only got the urge to really code when I started going to sleep near midnight/1am 04:07:14 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 04:07:15 Hmm.. 04:07:27 You lucky person! 04:07:37 I end up feeling cheerful and spending the morning on the couch :( 04:07:40 hehehe. 04:08:05 morning is only time I get to meself really. Spending too much time awake in the evening results in with the wife time. 04:08:10 so that's apperently no good! 04:08:31 Anyway I broke my SLIME :( 04:08:53 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:09:44 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 04:10:01 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 04:12:04 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:13:44 04:13:45 eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:51 well you have a good day :) 04:14:13 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:18:04 has anyone worked with Elephant? 04:19:26 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:19:51 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 04:22:41 felideon, a bit... 04:24:24 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 04:26:13 with what OS have you tried it 04:27:04 linux 04:27:48 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:30:07 need to fix my SLIME on my Linux box to see if it works there. I can't get any of the functions to work on OS X 04:30:30 -!- eevar_ [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:36:30 -!- ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:37:46 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:40:53 kmkaplan_ [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 04:41:14 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:43:26 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:44 -!- arubin [n=arubin@dsl081-148-047.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:44:44 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.22] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:25 -!- lnostdal [i=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has quit ["fail"] 04:47:06 rcy [n=rcy@d154-20-176-87.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:19 -!- kmkaplan_ [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:51:19 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 04:51:52 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 04:51:59 aundro__ [n=aundro@251.131-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 04:52:12 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-177-131-217.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:54:46 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-176-113-147.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:46 lnostdal [n=lnostdal@149-191-122.oke2-bras5.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 05:00:14 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:04:35 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:06:09 -!- aundro_ [n=aundro@254.216-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:06:59 -!- emptnr_ [n=u5h@syru216-035.syr.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:08:09 lambder [n=phua@adsl-75-3-81-54.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:29 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 05:08:32 -!- lambder [n=phua@adsl-75-3-81-54.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:08:59 -!- schwinn434 [n=schwinn4@75.81.196.139] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:08 Of features affecting binary compatibility, 05:11:09 (:SB-THREAD :SB-PACKAGE-LOCKS :SB-UNICODE :GENCGC) 05:11:09 the fasl has 05:11:09 (:GENCGC :SB-PACKAGE-LOCKS :SB-THREAD :SB-UNICODE), 05:11:12 while the runtime expects 05:11:15 (:GENCGC :SB-PACKAGE-LOCKS :SB-UNICODE). 05:11:18 05:11:30 ... 05:11:46 sorry shoulda lisp pasted, but if i get that ype of error when compiling a package 05:12:09 have you reinstalled/recompiled sbcl recently? 05:12:12 does it meant the package is not compatible with :SB-THREAD? 05:12:17 mean* 05:12:19 yes I did 05:12:25 delete all *.fasl files 05:13:04 if you have ones lingering around from a previous version of SBCL, it might become confused 05:13:20 yeah when I upgraded to SBCL, i cleaned out the fasls 05:13:37 but then I rebuilt it for :SB-THREAD so i may have forgotten to clean the fasls again 05:15:27 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 05:15:31 lambder [n=lambder@adsl-75-3-81-54.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:17 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:31 -!- lambder [n=lambder@adsl-75-3-81-54.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:18:01 is there a way to edit the repo address that clbuild uses? 05:18:09 addresses * 05:18:47 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:10 it's a shell script, it's not made of magic and pixie dust 05:20:18 look at the file named "projects" 05:23:11 -!- egn [i=tux@nodes.fm] has quit ["leaving"] 05:23:19 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1FED1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:41 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1F27A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:25:15 hmm no wonder. i had searched through all the files in clbuild, and couldnt find it 05:25:29 but that's because elephant isnt listed there 05:28:03 it's in wnpp-projects 05:28:07 thanks 05:28:18 benny [n=benny@i577A0DED.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:31:13 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:35:48 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 05:38:14 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:41:57 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:46:21 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 05:46:29 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-181-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:47:56 weirdo [n=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:48:06 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:48:12 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 05:52:31 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:54:25 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 05:56:02 -!- ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:59:32 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:01:57 aggieben_ [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:12 -!- aggieben_ is now known as aggieben 06:03:15 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:03:31 aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 06:04:12 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 06:04:39 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:04:44 I'm inheriting a class from s-xml into my own package, but I need to pass instances of that class back to s-xml functions. How do I make sure slot accessor names for my derived class(es) are accessible to s-xml? 06:15:21 -!- Rigdern [n=Rigdern@exeggcute-22.dynamic.rpi.edu] has quit [] 06:16:18 -!- _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #lisp 06:16:21 _8david [n=user@port-212-202-18-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:16:36 <_8david> felideon: "clbuild show " tells you which file it's in 06:17:11 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:20:05 _8david: coold. thanks. 06:21:49 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 06:22:54 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:22:56 Ijust noticed it's under: # projects that are currently broken 06:23:14 would have liked to read that 2 hours ago :) 06:23:44 (elephant, I mean) 06:24:27 broken?... 06:24:54 they released a new version recently, and it's being used in active projects. 06:25:23 <_8david> broken in clbuild, because clbuild uses cffi, not uffi 06:25:45 *aggieben* is at a loss about packages/symbols 06:26:01 UFFI, the UnFashionable Function Interface 06:26:41 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D156.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:53 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:55 aggieben: make sure the name of your slot is exported from your package, and access it as package:name in s-xml. 06:27:10 yain [n=yain@77.35.238.179] has joined #lisp 06:27:14 aggieben: though, I don't see why s-xml would access a slot that it knows nothing about. 06:27:41 _8david: does "clbuild install" compile the fasls? or are the packages only compiled once you (require :package) in SBCL? 06:27:48 aggieben: it's not - s-xml is accessing a slot name that it knows about. I inherited from the class and defined the same slot with the same accessor name 06:27:52 <_8david> felideon: the latter 06:27:55 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 06:28:23 <_8david> But re broken. You can fix it -- just download uffi yourself and change the symlink in clbuild/systems to point to "real" uffi. 06:28:26 aggieben: then you should have no problem. 06:29:09 aggieben: but it is possible that since slot names are symbols and symbols are package specific, you actually defined a new slot with a new name (new symbol) having the same name as the original one, but being in your own package. 06:29:38 beach: that's what I'm afraid I did. How do I inherit the class, but still make sure s-xml can access my slots? 06:29:49 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:30:00 even if I export the symbol names, s-xml isn't using my package 06:30:52 aggieben: there is nothing particular to do. Just make sure that when you mention the name of the slot in your package, it refers to the symbol in the s-xml package. Probably, since it is a slot, it is not exported, so you might need to do something like s-xml::slot-name, but that is pretty ugly to do. 06:31:20 aggieben: But if you only need the accessors, there should be no problem, just make sure the accessor name is referring to that in s-xml. 06:31:49 so, something like (defclass my-class (s-xml-class) ((slot :accessor s-xml:accessor ...)))? 06:31:52 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:32:01 yeah 06:32:46 do I need to export my class names? 06:33:00 _8david: so you mean point the sytems/uffi.asd to the real uffi.asd, rather than /cfi/uffi-compat/uffi.asd? 06:33:08 aggieben: no 06:33:18 aggieben: you need to export nothing at all. 06:35:01 jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:09 okay what 06:36:39 typing ~ in an emacs .lisp buffer when running slime gives me the following error: "The assertion (PACKAGEP SWANK::P) failed" 06:36:46 that is... typing the character ' 06:36:48 err 06:36:57 #\~ anywhere in the buffer 06:37:12 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:37:14 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 06:37:26 try C-h k ~ 06:38:16 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:38:18 why the heck is it bound to ?! 06:38:34 antifuchs: around? 06:39:48 <_3b> sykopomp: thought that was fixed a few weeks ago, get newer slime maybe? 06:40:15 _3b: will do now, then. This is a bit silly. 06:40:30 _3b: thank you. 06:41:27 <_3b> sykopomp: there was a refactoring of the key maps or something, and a few were misplaced in the process or something like that 06:42:17 _3b: I see. Thank you. :) 06:42:24 Time to head to bed, though. Goodnight, #lisp 06:42:33 'night sykopomp 06:42:49 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 06:43:24 nite 06:44:54 crap. can't figure out why the compiler things there's no applicable method 06:45:48 -!- The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D156.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:46:48 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:08 beach: if you're willing, here's the file with the definitions I'm having trouble with: http://pastebin.com/d2e2cef9 06:48:02 line 104 is the slot I'm having trouble with at the moment 06:48:58 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:49:00 <_3b> aggieben: what fails? 06:49:35 aggieben: that slot doesn't have an accessor. 06:49:36 a function in s-xml tries to call get-seed on an instance of feed-parser and I get a "no applicable method" error from the compiler 06:50:02 that slot is inherited from xml-parser-state. I removed the accessor just before I pasted in the hopes that I was causing a symbol collision 06:50:03 it didn't help 06:50:29 aggieben: is 'seed' an exported symbol from s-xml? 06:51:14 get-seed is. I don't know about seed, just a minute 06:51:16 aggie: Do you have a method specialized on feed-parser? 06:51:57 Zhivago: no, just slot accessors 06:52:13 seed is not exported. only get-seed 06:52:28 aggieben: then you have two different slots named `seed' 06:52:48 aggieben: one names s-xml:seed and the other named your-package:seed. 06:52:49 xml-parser-state is exported though. shouldn't my seed slot be inherited? 06:52:56 aggieben: no 06:53:12 aggieben: because slot names are symbols and symbols are specific to packages. 06:53:24 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 06:54:11 aggieben: however, if you put a get-seed accessor on that slot, and get-seed is exported, then a call to get-seed on a feed-parser instance, should access your new slot. 06:54:17 aggie: So, why does the 'no applicable method' error surprise you? 06:54:37 aggie: That means that it couldn't find a method specialized on the classes of the arguments passed to the generic function. 06:54:47 -!- aundro__ [n=aundro@251.131-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:56:19 crud. no more time to work on this. thanks for the help, folks. 06:57:01 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:58:31 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:01:32 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:04:49 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:05:43 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:06:57 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:07:34 -!- jbomo [n=dkd@pool-71-108-227-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:08:01 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 07:09:08 loz- [n=loz@73.149.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:10:25 _8david: I did your fix with the UFFI symlink and compiling elephant still doesn't work. I even downloaded elephant manually and tried compiling and it doesn't work. 07:12:50 oh noes, uffi? anyone still uses that? 07:13:40 beats me. 07:14:04 i even did a get to their "stable" checkpoint. i wonder what i'm doing wrong 07:15:13 maybe it just doesnt compile on OS X. 07:17:16 good nite all 07:17:17 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:18:45 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:19:06 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-143-134.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:19:09 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:20:34 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 07:21:22 -!- papermachine [n=ahoman@61.152.106.169] has left #lisp 07:22:34 hello fellow lispers 07:26:09 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:42 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:27:44 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:59 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:27 -!- roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:28:35 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 07:29:03 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:30:36 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 07:31:54 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 07:33:26 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:34:43 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:36:09 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 07:37:11 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:17 -!- knobo` [n=user@ti100710a080-2364.bb.online.no] has left #lisp 07:37:55 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:00 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:10 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:42:29 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:43:21 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 07:45:12 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-143-134.netcologne.de] has quit [] 07:46:36 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 07:47:52 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:47:54 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:12 netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:52:33 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:54:16 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 07:54:23 -!- aparatchik [n=nonamme@h-68-167-68-63.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:56:02 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:57:37 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.125] has joined #lisp 08:00:25 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:01:09 Good morning. 08:01:24 morning beach 08:01:32 Good morning. 08:01:35 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:02:16 Krystof: I hope you found my mail. 08:02:25 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:03:09 -!- loz- [n=loz@73.149.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:04:04 aparatchik [n=nonamme@h-68-167-68-63.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:19 good morning 08:04:47 <_8david> "tried compiling and it doesn't work" 08:05:01 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 08:05:08 <_8david> I'm sure somewhere in minion there's advice for this kind of statement. 08:05:34 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:05:42 -!- gz [n=gz@209.6.18.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:05:43 hello lispers 08:06:28 a short question before I go to work: is there a function like the linux touch command ? 08:06:49 kiuma: There should exist something like ensure-pathname 08:07:57 spiaggia: it's a real shame that darcs isn't working for you 08:07:59 rsynnott_ [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 08:08:43 kiuma: It doesn't appear to be. You can use some sort of combination of ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST, PROBE-FILE and WITH-OPEN-FILE. 08:08:50 but I'll integrate your changes today, add a bit about keyboard macros, and then put up another tarball? 08:08:59 -!- rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:09:23 vy, thanks and l8r 08:09:56 Krystof: Sounds good. 08:11:09 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:13:04 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 08:13:32 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:17:12 eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:46 -!- ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:18:05 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 08:19:41 -!- deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:20:48 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 08:21:25 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 08:21:27 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:23:43 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has joined #lisp 08:25:24 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:26:25 rsynnott1 [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 08:28:58 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:33:46 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:33:55 aundro [n=aundro@59.114-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 08:34:02 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 08:34:09 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 rsynnott2 [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 08:34:14 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:35:42 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-60-82-254-199-179.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:35:56 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-26-82-254-109-138.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:26 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:36:55 -!- rsynnott_ [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:39:07 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 08:41:09 -!- cads is now known as cadZzZ 08:41:24 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:33 brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:44:00 -!- rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:58 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:48:24 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:49:45 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-238-145.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 08:50:34 -!- rsynnott1 [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["*bork bork*"] 08:55:47 -!- rsynnott2 [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:50 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 08:59:54 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 09:03:29 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:04:42 pierre__thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-60-82-254-202-29.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:33 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:08:32 Hun: Will you come to the nest Munich Lisp Meeting? 09:08:50 tcr: i'm not sure, i'm right in my exams 09:08:53 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 09:09:06 hi 09:09:25 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 09:10:27 tcr: i think it's possible for me to show up. if i can't come, i'll tell you :) 09:10:55 -!- ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- cupe_ [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- turbo24prg [n=turbo24p@mail.turbolent.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- dmiles_afk [i=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- mvr [n=mitchell@d122-105-153-112.rdl13.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:10:55 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.240] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:11:36 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.240] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 cupe_ [n=cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 scode [n=scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 dostoyevsky [i=sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 turbo24prg [n=turbo24p@mail.turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 dmiles_afk [i=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 _3b [i=foobar@cpe-70-112-214-100.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:45 -!- ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:15:19 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:23 LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:18:48 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:19:06 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 09:19:52 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:20:51 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-26-82-254-109-138.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:24:30 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-210.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:26:28 -!- binarin [n=user@gwn.alt1.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:29:47 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 09:35:54 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:37:54 mulligan [n=user@e178063134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:16 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:39:26 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:47 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 09:39:56 how does lisp do on multi cpu boxes? some haskeller was saying haskell is nicer due to some kinda built in parallelism or something? 09:40:42 the_unmaker: AFAIK, there is no automated parallelism in currently available CL implementations. You need to roll your own parallelism scheme. 09:40:54 is that hard? 09:41:00 For Scheme, see Termite Scheme. 09:41:15 how does it work? termite scheme? 09:41:16 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:41:20 RalfD_1 [n=user@194.77.157.133] has joined #lisp 09:41:33 is there some magic hunk of c code? or is it done in scheme itself? 09:41:44 the_unmaker: Depends on what you mean by parallelism. There are threading, erlang like concurrency stuff, immutable data structure, etc. libraries. 09:42:02 something that will let my program use 16 cpu-s 09:42:12 let it run FAST 09:42:15 the_unmaker: They modified the gambit scheme interpreter, you do all your stuff in Scheme, and IIRC it is on par with erlang in performance aspect. 09:42:47 gambit isn't some kinda scheme in java is it? I hate that kinda thing ideologically 09:42:57 the_unmaker: Java? No. 09:43:10 daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 Thanks to an efficient implementation of continuations, the thread system is very efficient and can support millions of concurrent threads. [on gambit page, can this be correct?] 09:44:21 millions? 09:44:23 holy crap 09:44:45 are these threads in the same sense as a threaded webserver? 09:46:29 threads allow one to make a program utilize multiple cpu-s correct? 09:46:47 no 09:48:01 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 09:48:10 gz [n=gz@209-6-18-72.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 09:48:36 so a program must be somehow parallel to use multiple cpus? 09:48:59 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:49:09 Euwreka! 09:49:38 multiple cpus don't buy you much (or anything at all) when they're just waiting for one of them to finish some boring computation 09:49:42 these questions are about basic computation models... look around at wikipedia... 09:49:43 attila_lendvai, memo from _death: looks like cl-l10n is b0rked, looking for `nreversef' 09:50:07 and you know, most code is written by the assumption that it runs more or less top-down 09:50:09 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has joined #lisp 09:50:15 and not everything-at-once 09:50:22 the_unmaker is gavino, right? 09:50:27 <_8david> stassats: yes 09:50:31 what would I put in wikipedia? 09:51:04 so, why he is still here? 09:51:26 minion: memo for _death: your alexandria is outdated, pull it 09:51:26 Remembered. I'll tell _death when he/she/it next speaks. 09:52:33 the_unmaker: holy crap, with such questions in your head, please don't put in there anything... go read it instead! :) 09:52:55 attila_lendvai: support for tags could be coming to mudballs, but it would take some time. Would it be ok for you if I created a mudball for cl-perec&friends and let Sean host it on mudballs.com? That is, if I can find the time. 09:53:27 -!- daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:53:33 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 09:53:55 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA5D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:54:02 madnificent: i don't mind any kind of support as long as i won't be bugged too much about it. although the point of tags would be to pull the tags from the official repos... not? 09:55:14 no I mean howto search for something that would explain this stuff 09:55:18 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 09:56:13 attila_lendvai: yes, apparantly sean prefers to have a failsafe running at mudballs.com There is a low-priority ticket for interaction with VCSs though, so it will probably come in there some day. 09:58:29 sohum [n=sohum@114.73.139.179] has joined #lisp 09:58:53 is there a function such that ( nil) => "" and ( str) => str if str is a string? 09:59:36 sohum: no, it is trivial and non-generic, so you need to write it yourself 09:59:41 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:59:46 madnificent: ok. some thoughts: from time to time when eveything seems to work fine, i go through most of the repos where i have commit rights and tag them with a date. setting up perec with all its dependencies is not trivial, so you may end up wasting too much time with the cloning without the repo/tag support (although i think most of our patches to dependencies are in their official repos now, so this may not be true anymore) 09:59:47 (when (stringp str) str) 10:00:12 <_dd> sohum: how about (or str "") 10:00:25 fair enough, H4ns. I thought some force-to-string fn might exist, so. 10:00:34 oooh, shiny, didn't think of that _dd 10:00:37 thankee! 10:00:40 _dd: and what if str is 15? 10:00:42 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 10:00:53 <_dd> stassats: that wasn't part of his input criteria :-) 10:01:08 <_dd> i.e., since he didn't say what it should do in that case, it can do anything ;/ 10:01:08 _dd: it was 10:01:15 _dd: it was, "if str is a string" 10:01:48 attila_lendvai: I am more a fan of fetching through tags. Is there some list of the tags (and from what repos) that I should pull to get a working version? It might as well be, that I try to convince him to get the tags implemented first (I think that will fail though) 10:01:53 <_dd> the two examples where ( nil) and ( str) 10:03:08 BW^- [i=Miranda@92.83.162.231] has joined #lisp 10:03:22 do you any companies that require lisp consultancy for the next months? 10:04:50 -!- sohum [n=sohum@114.73.139.179] has left #lisp 10:05:23 BW^-: check lispjobs.wordpress.com AFAIK they are gathered there 10:08:17 loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:32 ok 10:09:44 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:11:49 I couldn't find it on cliki. Is there some lisp library to handle VCSs with from lisp? 10:12:55 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:14:40 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-210.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:14:49 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:15:07 -!- loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:16:18 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 10:16:40 schmx [n=schme@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:17:08 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-46.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:18:49 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087D156.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:57 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 10:24:08 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.137.10] has joined #lisp 10:24:40 -!- schme [n=schme@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:27:18 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:28:02 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 10:29:36 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.137.10] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:30:06 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:30:49 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 10:34:02 madnificent: i think i'd stick to trivial-shell... 10:35:04 sohum [n=sohum@114.73.139.179] has joined #lisp 10:35:10 madnificent: no tag list, not dependency list (shouldn't mudballs or something extract it from the .asd's?). but i'll try to support that part of the story if that is the last obstacle... 10:35:15 is there any way to flush a current output stream without closing it? 10:35:25 -!- brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 10:35:27 clhs finish-output 10:35:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 10:36:07 sweet, thanks 10:36:13 -!- sohum [n=sohum@114.73.139.179] has left #lisp 10:36:57 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:40:10 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:41:38 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.79.175] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:40 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has joined #lisp 10:42:03 attila_lendvai: support for the conversion of asds will come too, that should be in before tags are supported. 10:42:55 valvola [n=fabiovio@salugit.unile.it] has joined #lisp 10:45:15 attila_lendvai: to create a mudball, I would basically see what cl-perec installs, check what the asds are doing, and translate that to a mudball 10:46:05 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #lisp 10:46:06 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 10:47:29 kmkaplan 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[n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 12:37:31 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:42 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 12:41:09 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E4667C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:11 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 12:46:42 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:47:19 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:48:47 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:52 maybe someone can give me a hint. yesterday i learned that (sb-ext:run-program gnuplot-path (list gnuplot-file) :wait nil :pty t) works so far as gnuplot starts and executes pause-commands as expected. but how can i put a command-line option ( -background white)? (s-e:r-p gnuplot-path (list "-background white" gnuplot-file)) does not work. 12:49:39 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 12:51:21 trebor_dki: did you try (list "-background" "white" gnuplot-file), too? 12:51:31 trebor_dki: same way, but "-background" "white"... 12:52:19 H4ns & attila_lendvai i think i tried this (including leading and/or trailing whitespaces) - but i retry - thanks. 12:54:34 thanks, good to retry - you are right - this is the way it works (maybe i've done wrong combinations (splitting with at least one extra whitespace)) 12:54:45 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:56:29 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 12:58:24 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:00:14 elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has joined #lisp 13:00:17 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 13:04:16 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:56 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:06:11 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:07:45 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:13:52 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:52 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 13:18:43 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:19:05 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:20:11 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:24:27 authentic [n=authenti@85-127-41-160.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:25:19 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:29:28 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:30:45 LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:31:56 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.232.53] has joined #lisp 13:34:11 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:36 Kickaha [n=Alex@150.138.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:37:39 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:39:51 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:40:06 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has joined #lisp 13:41:18 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:42:17 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:25 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:45:15 aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:16 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:48:42 -!- __death is now known as _death 13:48:50 vasa [n=vasa@mm-131-83-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 13:49:06 zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has joined #lisp 13:49:23 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:51:03 -!- Kickaha [n=Alex@150.138.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:52:36 -!- eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:52:50 eevar [n=snuffpup@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:21 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:54:32 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:24 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 13:56:14 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:26 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:24 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/session] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:04:00 is it possible in loop to do initially- and finally-collects (different from intermediate collects)? like (loop for i from 0 to 4 initially (collect (list 'init i)) finally (collect (list 'end i)) collect (list 'normal i)) which obviously does not work. ? 14:04:51 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:05:05 (to achieve sth like: ((init 0) (normal 1) (normal 2) (end 3)) )? 14:05:37 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 14:05:48 if it isn't, you can just do the finally one and patch the accessable list-head yourself. 14:06:22 isn't there a way to initialize the collected-to list? 14:06:30 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 14:07:16 -!- Partyzant [n=Partyzan@rps312.ovh.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:08:17 O(1) hack: (cons '(s 1) (nconc (loop for i from 2 to 4 collect `(n ,i)) `((e 5)))) 14:08:25 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 14:08:26 till now i do append (init 0) at front, (end 3) at the end and loop over (rest (reverse (rest (reverse (list 0 1 2 3 ...))))) 14:09:07 _death: if it didn't reach you yet: pull your alexandria repo 14:09:41 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:48 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:56 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 14:10:23 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:10:24 vy: thanks (seems to be similiar) 14:14:41 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:45 <_8david> (iter (with cheat) (unless cheat (setf cheat (lambda (x) (collect x)))) (for i from 0 below 10) (collect i) (finally (funcall cheat :finally))) 14:15:23 <_death> attila: thanks. fe[nl]ix told me just after I sent you the memo.. I told minion to forget it, but he's so stubborn.. 14:15:24 _death, memo from attila_lendvai: your alexandria is outdated, pull it 14:15:37 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:16:22 <_death> attila: I used loliveira's repo rather than the official one 14:17:57 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 14:19:09 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 14:21:25 -!- _YKY_ [i=YKY@116.49.204.95] has left #lisp 14:22:00 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:22:15 minion: don't be so stubborn... :) 14:22:16 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 14:24:05 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:24:22 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 14:24:22 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 14:24:45 hugod 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has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:49 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:35:52 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:36:13 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #lisp 14:36:26 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:36:35 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:37:17 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:37:40 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:09 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:16 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:42:26 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:43:01 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:43:45 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA5D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:43:50 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 14:44:55 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:16 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:48:03 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:11 Hello all. 14:48:53 morning 14:49:01 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:53:16 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:53:54 deafmacro [n=user@59.96.61.63] has joined #lisp 14:54:34 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:20 tomsw [n=user@d54C1C1A4.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:56:22 jollygood [n=jollygoo@64.127.29.50] has joined #lisp 14:56:30 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:59:42 -!- valvola [n=fabiovio@salugit.unile.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:00:12 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:00:58 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 15:01:56 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:02:18 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:02:33 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5abb.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 15:04:52 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 15:05:06 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-129-7.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:25 hi nyef 15:05:34 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:58 Kickaha [n=Alex@254.160.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:07:04 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-242-231.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:09:52 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 15:12:42 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:13:56 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:03 demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig110.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:33 -!- kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:16:15 beach / spiaggia: is either of you about? 15:16:59 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.96.61.63] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:17:02 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:17:18 deafmacro [n=user@59.92.128.133] has joined #lisp 15:17:53 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:18:53 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 15:18:53 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:19:08 hm. how do i get "0001" via format? (format "~4,0D" 1) gives an error about 0 not being a character. how do i mask a char within a string to be a character? (chapter 22.3.2.2)? 15:19:23 (format nil ....) 15:19:50 trebor_dki: (format nil "~4,'0D" 1) 15:20:37 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 15:20:37 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@c-76-21-209-249.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:42 attila_lendvai: ah - thank you 15:21:17 I never quite understood the reasoning behind that one 15:22:13 passing numerical arguments to format directives is done without quoting 15:22:20 so to say "this is a character arg" you need to quote 15:22:34 not obviously necessary for ~D but really obviously necessary for ~/foo/ 15:22:55 also, try passing V as your pad character 15:23:27 <_8david> anyone know off the top of their head how to debug "full call to " errors? 15:23:46 think very hard 15:23:56 oh, trace is-ok-template-use usually 15:24:06 assuming you're expecting your known function to be implemented with a vop 15:24:26 <_8david> yes, thanks! That's it. 15:24:44 heh. You have no idea how long I have spent reading traces of is-ok-template-use 15:25:00 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:25:10 (somewhere short of 72 man months0 15:25:12 is there a handier way to ensure calculations are done with only up to the hundredth decimal place (aside from the fairly simple arithmetic juggling)? 15:25:46 "hundredths"? 15:25:53 i.e. the second decimal place? 15:26:00 yes 15:26:01 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 15:26:03 not that there is a way either way 15:26:04 sorry :-) 15:26:25 apart from using clisp's long-float package and setting the number of bits to 7 or so 15:27:22 sykopomp: one way could be to change your unit by a factor 100, and do everything using fixnums ? 15:27:39 (that's what Fortran or PL/1 would do) 15:28:04 kuwabara: yeah, that's what I meant by 'simple arithmetic juggling'. I was just curious as to whether it had something built-in that would do that, considering Lisp's rep for math stuff. 15:28:22 but yes, thanks :) 15:28:47 if you have a real need, you could shadow all the CL mathematical operators and replace them with your custom ones (which each have a ROUND in them) 15:29:02 hahaha 15:29:09 kuwabara: and watch your satellite hit the surface too fast two years later...? :) 15:29:19 on the other hand: "It looks like you're writing software to do financial calculations. Don't do anything silly like use binary floats" 15:29:49 Xof: bin floats are a bad idea when dealing with financial calculations? 15:29:58 they're a terrible idea 15:30:08 how come? 15:30:13 you accumulate rounding errors 15:30:48 sykopomp: 0.1 is not round in binary float. 15:30:50 work in integers, to a known precision 15:31:23 ahh 15:31:37 sykopomp: we do all our math using rationals and round at places where the law dictates rounding. when we use floats it's a bug, and sometimes accumulates annoyingly big amounts... while there's zero tolerance... :) 15:32:08 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:32:54 sykopomp: you probably ought to read "What every computer scientist should know about floating point" 15:33:03 we also have to have a round* that does not do the smartness of round, namely that 0.5 is rounded up/down for eleven/odd. our round* rounds it up always. 15:33:15 Xof: that does sound like something I should read. Should I google, or is there a particular link? 15:33:19 google is fine 15:33:37 -!- Kickaha [n=Alex@254.160.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:33:52 thanks 15:33:59 off to work I go. Have a nice day, all. 15:34:02 sykopomp: about accumulation errors: http://stochastix.wordpress.com/2008/05/05/the-patriot-missile-failure/ 15:34:05 s/rational/ratio/ 15:34:23 -!- deafmacro [n=user@59.92.128.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:38:21 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:39:55 -!- zorgzorg2 [i=marra@130.236.136.254] has left #lisp 15:40:26 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 15:40:46 -!- ypsa [n=ypsa@r9dj117.net.upc.cz] has quit ["leaving"] 15:45:45 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:48:23 I think lisp implementations make more interesting reading than just about any other kind of software. 15:48:28 avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:15 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:51:51 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 15:53:31 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:15 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:17 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 15:55:21 Of all the... Bloody unknown possibly-run-length compression, stupid 5-bit deep palettized image, and no real option for a corruption attack on the decoder. :-/ 15:56:31 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:56:35 wha? 15:57:12 I'm trying to figure out a file format. 15:57:48 It contains text, animated images, some control codes, and an optional block that I haven't figured out yet. 15:58:08 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 15:58:28 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 15:58:52 I'm ignoring the optional block for now, and I don't need to crack the text-and-control-codes block any further than I already have at this point. 15:59:07 But the image part is pissing me off. 15:59:53 loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:00 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:59 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["byebye"] 16:03:59 nyef: this sounds fun! 16:04:06 -!- aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:13 5bit palette sounds amigaish? 16:04:27 Some crazy Saturn format, actually. 16:04:36 hmmmmmm 16:04:51 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@56.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:05:07 well rle's are usually easier to reverse engineer than huffman and the like 16:05:26 nyef: Isn't the spec. on-line somewhere? 16:05:55 I was rather surprised when I finally broke down, treated the #x40-octet segment of unknown data as a 32-color palette using the normal color format, and came up with palettes that were in the correct color scheme for the images but spread out sufficiently that all the colors had to be valid. 16:06:10 z0d: Custom file formats all over the place. 16:06:24 What is Saturn anyway? 16:06:32 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-73.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:06:34 Video game system from SEGA. 16:06:49 Came between the SegaCD and the Dreamcast. 16:07:52 Two SH-2 CPUS, a 68k mediating between the two, crappy 3d hardware, and I'm not sure on the rest of the specs. 16:08:10 are there no open source emulators that ideas can be borrowed from? 16:08:26 I don't know. 16:08:31 I'm just trying to figure out one game. 16:08:54 of course there are emulators for it 16:09:00 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:11 And, really, I wouldn't expect the emulators to have support for some random compression when it's almost certain to be handled by game code. 16:09:12 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:09:47 you could just run the game and take a screenshot 16:09:48 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 16:10:00 foom: that removes all the fun! 16:10:15 ... How would taking a screenshot help me figure out the format? 16:10:26 nyef: with this you remind me of my early days, when i learned programming by disassembling stuff on my first amiga 500... :) 16:10:39 willb [n=wibenton@nat/redhat/x-e99622bcbefe91a7] has joined #lisp 16:12:11 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:12:38 i've released a version of RattleCopy that had the same functionality but half the size (~50k)... which did matter at that time of the floppy disks... oh well, time has passed. my darcs binary is 9 MB... :) 16:13:12 kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has joined #lisp 16:14:14 what game, anyway? 16:15:20 Rayearth. 16:16:36 yay clamp 16:16:54 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has left #lisp 16:17:06 -!- vasek [n=vasa@mm-120-91-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 16:17:20 Yay Working Designs as well. 16:17:39 Still bloody obnoxious compressed data, though. 16:18:02 user___ [n=user@p54923B1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:25 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 16:18:36 roconnor [n=roconnor@206-248-135-96.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:19 -!- kmkaplan [n=kmkaplan@2001:41d0:1:cc00:1c:c0ff:fe14:8543] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:28 Working Designs was just US localization and publishing 16:19:48 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has quit [] 16:19:50 Yes. But they still deserve a yay. 16:20:08 kpreid [n=kpreid@216-171-188-181.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:40 no argument there! 16:22:10 So, I have a bunch of data blocks. I can easily find their size on-disk. I can also find the size of the image segment they represent. 16:22:20 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 16:22:21 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:22:22 And I'm working on the assumption that they are 5-bit images. 16:22:45 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:47 How on earth do I crack this one? 16:22:59 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 16:23:13 heuristics 16:23:30 minion: Advice on heuristic? 16:23:30 #11953: Of course, this is a heuristic, which is a fancy way of saying that it doesn't work. 16:23:47 hm, I take it back, apparently they had to rewrite a bunch of the game for the US release, as the original source was lost. 16:23:51 snobbi [n=snobbi@dslb-084-061-047-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:53 fun 16:24:07 heuristics of this sort only need to work once 16:24:12 True. 16:24:23 I've already noticed a couple patterns. 16:24:42 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-46.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:25:05 how large is one of these blobs? 16:25:26 and you have a palette of some sort, separately? 16:25:32 Yeah, separate palettes. 16:25:37 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 16:26:04 And I have some of the smaller blobs here. #x40 bytes on this last one representing #x80 pixels (a #x10 by #x08 block). 16:26:31 Probably easier to figure things out on larger samples, really 16:26:32 The largest blocks in this file are #x50 by #x50. 16:27:04 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 16:27:11 #x50 x #x50 pixels? 16:27:13 And I have another set of files which -may- be using the same compression, but over a full 256-entry palette as well, and those are full-screen images. 16:27:16 Yeah, pixels. 16:29:03 nyef: is there a chance of disassembling to the original code that processes it? might be much easier to do it that way... 16:29:23 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:25 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 16:29:31 hello 16:29:39 hello 16:29:55 hey hsaliak 16:30:17 attila_lendvai: The problem with that approach is figuring out which files have code in them for which processors, and then actually finding the code that does the decompression. 16:30:33 hey lucca, didnt know if you were the same old lucca , so i decided to type something into the channel and see if you would respond. kami- provided a good opportunity 16:30:58 heh, yeah, same old lucca. 16:31:15 didnt know you were into lisp 16:31:47 *kami-* thinks that not many people nowadays can "provide a good opportunity" 16:31:51 -!- loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:31:58 yep, interesting stuff. phadthai is here now too. 16:32:05 kami-: heh 16:32:24 lucca: now you got the stamp... game over... :) 16:33:07 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:33:17 lucca: yep, its interesting isnt it.. and how after so many years our interest converges again 16:34:30 nyef: #x40 bytes for #x80 pixels sounds more like an uncompressed 4bpp image.... are there different ratios for others? How are you determining pixel size? 16:34:45 -!- snobbi [n=snobbi@dslb-084-061-047-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 16:35:05 Different ratios for different blocks. There's a header on each with two u16be values for width and height. 16:35:14 (Not included in the compressed size figure. 16:35:51 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:36:16 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:36:29 I've also got compressed lengths of #x44 and #x38 for other 16x8 blocks. 16:36:37 Hmm. Not too many sites allow foo+bar@baz style e-mail addresses. 16:37:05 And, as I said, the palette information is consistent with a 5-bit deep image. 16:38:18 don't suppose you could post one of the blobs and size info? 16:39:25 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:39:27 nyef pasted "A large block, with header" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74030 16:39:56 Hmmmmmmmmmmmm 16:41:09 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:58 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:42:01 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #lisp 16:42:31 for being compressed, that looks fairly low-entropy 16:42:43 Which is why I'm thinking run-length. 16:42:45 z0d: That's usually because someone has decided that it's a good idea to "validate" the email address with a regular expression. 16:43:24 Guest2120: And, let me guess, either isn't good at regexps or doesn't know the range of legal values for email addresses. 16:43:27 the duplicated bytes and nibbles suggest something that lines up on byte lines, which man 5bit encodings wouldn't 16:43:53 I also like it when some sites say "Invalid address" for foo@bar.info 16:43:56 nyef: or they have a different goal than accepting all valid addresses 16:44:06 i.e. the regex for "most people I want to talk to/from 16:44:11 " is very different 16:44:23 I think the majority of them just haven't read the specification 16:44:47 nyef annotated #74030 with "Some smaller blocks" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74030#1 16:45:42 nyef: any pixel multiples smaller than 8? 16:45:43 The canonical quotation is here: http://regex.info/blog/2006-09-15/247 16:46:29 This quote is generally attributed to Jamie Zawinski (an early Netscape engineer) from a post on the comp.lang.emacs Usenet newsgroup. Unfortunately, there's never been a comp.lang.emacs newsgroup, which renders the whole attribution suspect. 16:46:33 Heh 16:46:35 Hrm. That I don't know. 16:46:47 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47:00 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.120] has joined #lisp 16:47:07 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.120] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:47:19 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:47:21 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F06B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:53 ... Not in this file, though I can't say that that will hold for all files. 16:48:12 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:04 well, the 8pixel multiple might not be a compression related thing so much as a video hardware thing 16:49:27 Yeah. 16:50:06 bleh, I remember trying to generate optimal palette and CHR tables from truecolor images. messy! 16:50:22 There's a definate bias towards 16-bit alignment. 16:50:55 do you know if it's X or Y that is first there? 16:51:05 16x8 is much stranger than 8x16 16:51:21 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:52:40 nyef annotated #74030 with "Image sections from another file." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74030#2 16:52:43 i suspect highbit-or-two enables RLE 16:53:10 Mmm... One thing I see is that each compressed block ends with 00 00. 16:53:29 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:53:34 and begins with two hibit bytes 16:53:44 hm 16:53:47 one or two 16:53:52 Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has joined #lisp 16:54:18 And another pattern I noticed on the other type of file that seems to also happen with this stuff is the pattern ff ff, where it's expecting such a block, introduces a run of 32 literal bytes. 16:54:25 PCX used #xC0 as the rle mask, iirc 16:55:00 <_3b> can you easily find the smallest and largest block of 16x8 (or whatever the smallest dimensions are)? 16:55:08 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 16:55:43 ff occurs individually much ore often than ff ff 16:56:00 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:56:37 josemanuel [n=josemanu@249.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:57:19 _3b: I'd need to write a bit of code for it, why? 16:57:52 bzoto [n=pradella@pradella.dei.polimi.it] has joined #lisp 16:58:01 <_3b> curious if there were any obvious patterns of bits that appeared a lot more in the small than large blocks 16:58:23 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:58:27 <_3b> presumably the rle or whatever would be happening less if there was less compression 16:58:39 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:58:58 <_3b> probably enough variation in the pasted chunks though, so no coding needed :) 16:59:17 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 16:59:31 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 17:00:55 #x44 shows up an awful lot 17:01:10 Might just be a popular color. 17:01:32 and #x4_ much more 17:02:24 LostMonarch [n=roby@82.49.206.234] has joined #lisp 17:02:39 -!- bzoto [n=pradella@pradella.dei.polimi.it] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:03:34 hm, 44 and 55 are basic dither patterns if literal 1bpp 17:04:19 <_3b> any risk of planar image data? 17:04:22 Wouldn't we also expect to see an aa in the case of 55? 17:04:34 _3b: looking more and more likely 17:04:43 nyef: no, that's got the hi bit set 17:05:10 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 17:05:16 _3b: I'd honestly be surprised to see planar data at this point, given that everything else has been chunky. 17:05:34 should be 2a, but that's almost not present 17:06:02 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@82.49.206.234] has quit [Client Quit] 17:06:14 LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 clhs ~{ 17:08:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgd.htm 17:11:07 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:12:02 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@64.127.29.50] has quit [] 17:12:24 dcl [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 17:12:34 Okay, I have a believable #x74 octets for a 16x8 block, and a believable #x36 octets for another 16x8. 17:12:56 And a bug in my code. 17:13:54 we have 49, and 4b, but not 4a 17:15:21 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #lisp 17:15:33 Okay, bug fixed. And a #x2a-octet block spotted. 17:15:34 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:41 Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b0870db23ba023a4] has joined #lisp 17:16:29 that sounds very very small 17:16:39 Yeah, I'm going to try and find it. 17:17:47 Ooh. A #x26. 17:18:41 clupacizra [n=jake@c-71-232-92-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:22 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:20:26 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:21:17 Kickaha [n=Alex@98.30.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 <_3b> any idea if the chunks you pasted might have similar contents? 17:22:28 nyef annotated #74030 with "Two more blocks" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74030#3 17:23:28 Yes, because they're all small, and the main animation has to be the mouth-shapes for the speech animation. 17:23:55 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:24:02 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-218-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:25:19 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:25:28 hmmmmm, maybe it is X by Y then 17:28:25 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:29:14 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:29:54 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-131-184.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:24 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 17:30:29 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-56-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:30:42 nyef: all of these have 4bit symmetry in the data 17:31:02 what does the palette look like? 17:31:10 might make sense to have one of the bits included in the rle 17:31:35 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #lisp 17:32:46 I've been pulling these blocks from various different images, so they'll have different palettes, but... 17:32:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:33:40 Hun [n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:20 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:34:24 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b0870db23ba023a4] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:34:38 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 17:35:35 definitely seeing 16bit alignment features also 17:36:02 -!- Lou_ [n=lat@125.162.205.66] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:36:08 Oops. Managed to crash slime. 17:36:24 "You've been slimed!" 17:36:30 Something like that. 17:36:37 The process is still running, though. 17:38:46 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 17:39:08 I just do "(swank:create-server)", and then it returns the port number I need to M-x slime-connect to, right? 17:39:57 yeah, seeing that ff ff followed by 32 17:40:25 and in general it's all 16bit numbers; a hibit16 followed by N 16 bit numbers 17:40:44 Hrm. 17:40:49 nyef: hmmm, never started it that way 17:40:50 dfox__ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 17:40:52 I think I screwed up my slime more than I thought. 17:40:57 nyef: sounds right 17:41:06 *nyef* mourns his lost session. 17:41:20 i tend to restart sbcl/swank periodically and leave my work in a .lisp file in a buffer, for easy re c-x,c-e'ing 17:41:26 much like a mathematica workbook style 17:42:03 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:42:09 Yeah, but I'm doing crazy things with lisp code in text files and (insert-image (create-image (slime-eval ...) nil t)) in the *scratch* buffer. 17:42:29 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 17:42:30 -!- dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:42:51 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 17:45:13 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:45:14 pretty sure the hi16 headers do not encode a length 17:45:28 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:45:55 the hiword may encode image day, and the lowords may encode replication masks for that data 17:46:01 Yeah, there are a couple of such headers, identical, with different numbers of octets after them before the next header. 17:46:38 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:46:42 Tried playing games with logcount of parts of a header and the distance to the next header, but that didn't seem to help. 17:46:48 Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8622fae3e2919295] has joined #lisp 17:48:19 nyef annotated #74030 with "palette data from the file with the first few blocks (not the last two)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74030#4 17:49:03 I will admit to being concerned about the high bits set in the palette data. 17:49:47 Palette entries appear to be u16be values, low 15 bits significant, 5-5-5 rgb, with red at the low end and blue at the high end. 17:50:18 Hmm. Should (loop for i from -1 to 0 by .2 collect i) give (-1 -0.8 -0.6 -0.40000004 -0.20000003 -2.9802322e-8) ? 17:50:55 z0d: that seems like a reasonable result 17:51:15 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:51:24 I'd need to check it with reference to the implementation of floaty numbers, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me. 17:51:37 looks fine. 17:51:54 z0d: did you overlook the e-8 at the end of the last number? 17:52:11 try doing it with .2d0 17:52:18 z0d: consider how nasty 1/5 is to represent with base2; repetitive subtraction magnifies the error 17:52:24 or 1/5 17:52:28 cupe_: Indeed. 17:52:40 floats are evilish 17:52:53 My eye optimized the "e" away. 17:53:03 eyes* 17:53:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:53:23 I looked at it at least 3 times and didn't see it. 17:53:51 Incoming dyslexia? 17:54:50 -!- Kickaha [n=Alex@98.30.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:55:06 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@116.32.180.23] has joined #lisp 17:55:44 <_3b> nyef: 3 bit count then run of (1+ count) 5 bit values maybe? 17:55:50 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 17:55:58 fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:00 <_3b> wait, that doesn't expand to anything 17:56:21 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:56:45 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:13 Wouldn't explain the repeated strings of 46 and whatnot in some of the blocks. 17:57:17 -!- hsaliak` [n=user@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:59:55 and the bytes look the same even in the ff ff blocks 18:00:04 though 00 appears more there. 18:00:39 <_3b> is there likely to be any transparency? 18:00:52 Yes, there is transparency. 18:01:06 especially on highly compressed blocks 18:01:08 <_3b> and not color keyed? 18:01:27 With the other image formats, the transparent color had palette index 0. 18:01:33 I suspect that to be a hardware feature. 18:01:34 what format are you talking about? 18:01:38 elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has joined #lisp 18:02:04 -!- RalfD_1 [n=user@194.77.157.133] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:12 salex: Trying to crack some a compressed graphics format for the saturn rayearth game. 18:02:26 ah, gotcha 18:02:32 was this the same one we were looking at the audio for, a few years back? 18:02:37 Yes, it is. 18:02:40 ^_^ 18:02:41 It might be less fun, but perhaps a saturn emulator might help. 18:03:21 Zhivago: You mean, corrupt an iso image and see what damage it does? 18:03:47 or have an emulator that allows stepping when certain data is accessed 18:03:52 but doing this Without the code is more fun 18:03:53 Well, you could probably find the decoder. 18:04:16 it is conceivable that the decoder is in rom or hardware also 18:04:22 corruption might also be informative 18:04:37 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5175.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:43 Yeah, but an emulator needs to emulate those, too. 18:04:52 In which case, it might be in nice emulator source code. 18:05:10 nyef: does it appear to be lossless? 18:05:27 dmiles_afk [n=dmiles@c-71-197-210-170.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:29 rsynnott: From the other place where the compression appears to be used, I'd say yes. 18:06:00 well, that's easier then :) 18:06:00 -!- ZabaQ [n=jconnors@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:06:06 (still not easy, of course) 18:06:11 That said, the only hardware compression that I'd epxect the saturn to support is cinepak. 18:07:17 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:07:19 And this doesn't look much like the cinepak video files. 18:07:28 heh 18:07:32 -!- cavelife [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:07:51 well, arguably a palette is already hardware compression 18:08:11 not really a good argument though 18:08:29 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:08:36 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:08 -!- fph [i=joe@adsl-75-14-202-212.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 18:09:21 nyef: some early mpeg-adjacent thing, perhaps? 18:09:41 (didn't MPEG2 include some form of image compression?) 18:10:01 rsynnott: doesn't make sense for this color count 18:10:11 and the source material is hand-drawn-cell-shaded 18:10:21 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 18:10:34 Anyway, the FF FF <32-octets> blocks sortof imply a lossless compression. 18:11:05 mpeg2 was jpeg like, iirc. motion compensation and DCT blocks 18:11:21 8x8 like std jpeg, probably. 18:11:27 better to interpret as -1 followed by 16 numbers 18:11:40 Particularly as in one of the suspected use-cases, it's used for an 8-bit palettized image and its full metadata (headers, palette, and everything). 18:15:52 the hiword blocks approximate the number of rows.... but they just don't match 18:16:00 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5abb.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:05 could be a coincidence that's data-dependent 18:16:17 *_3b* was noticing that too 18:16:42 <_3b> off by about 4x on the first paste though 18:17:06 hmmmmmmm 18:17:10 <_3b> (which could mean per row up to 64 pixels or something) 18:17:45 the hiwords themselves still have 15bits of data unaccounted for 18:18:34 Okay, we know for an ff ff block they control some 32 pixels of data, right? 18:18:52 Or, rather, 32 octets of output. 18:18:57 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:14 32 octets... 16 words... maybe 48 pixels? 18:19:46 remember, the hibit isn't set on any of the octets 18:20:00 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:27 Yeah, but I also remember that we have a 32-element palette... What if that palette wasn't mapped starting at 0? 18:20:50 Oh. 18:21:00 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:21:14 an N sized hardware palette, with 32 color-points being changed dynamically at a time? 18:21:31 time to check the hardware :p 18:22:05 What if we assume that it's an 8-bit overlay with index-0 transparency, and the palette we have is mapped starting at index #x40. 18:23:14 that starts to make the data fit a lot better 18:23:37 hm 18:23:56 some of the hiword blocks contain no lowords 18:23:58 This also leaves the same overlay available for the text box, its borders, and the rasterized font. 18:25:09 so we have a hiword of 15bits of data, followed by 2*n groups of 5bits? 18:25:24 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:25:39 the ff ff block has literal 00's also 18:26:04 I've seen an ff ff block with a literal ff ff as well. 18:29:30 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-155-70.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:47 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-134-208.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:29:49 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 18:31:37 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 18:32:22 -!- spec[afk] [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:32:27 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:32:28 is apply to be avoided/slow/....? i wonder, because now it happens, that i use it more often under some circumstances (; laziness ;) - and i have a bad conscience about it .... 18:32:54 The only real problem with APPLY is the cost of spreading the last argument. 18:33:22 <_death> it depends on those circumstances.. 18:33:23 which is mostly the reason i use it 18:33:25 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:33:38 (spreading the last argument) 18:33:47 trebor_dki: if you don't do much inlining then apply is not much slower 18:34:53 <_death> for example if you have a list whose single element is a list, and you want the first element of the latter, I wouldn't recommend (apply #'car outer-list) :) 18:35:24 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:38:37 sometimes i use it together with lambda like (apply (lambda (a b c) (....)) list-of-previous-results) 18:38:43 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:59 <_death> in that case I would recommend destructuring-bind 18:40:11 malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfdae.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:11 ah, thanks _death, i forgot that one again... 18:40:13 Okay, fired up the game on my saturn, and got it to the point where it displays that big block. 18:41:12 hm, never had a saturn :/ 18:41:37 It runs transparent through about half the top visible row, then there are three or four pixels of the fourth color in the palette. 18:41:47 Then it goes back to transparent for a bit. 18:43:40 Next row involves a run of about 7 pixels, give or take, in close colors, call it 4, 6, or the 8-10 range, then another transparent bit, then two pixels of the fourth color again, then transparent. 18:44:08 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:44:23 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:02 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5175.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:47:34 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:47:57 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 18:49:51 Heh. The font is anti-aliased. There has to be a grayscale ramp for it. 18:50:13 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:50:27 yeah, saturn doesn't have translucency 18:51:07 And it'll be a grayscale against the sortof-cream background, too. 18:51:20 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 18:51:53 your comment about the first row... 18:52:03 First visible row. 18:52:07 all transparent except for a few color4 in the middle 18:52:18 There could easily be more rows before that that were completely transparent. 18:52:38 Yeah, you're looking at that sequence ff d0 44 44 44 00 fb 11 ff d3, aren't you? 18:52:40 B3 9D 00 00 (transparent some distance) FF D0 44 44 44 00 (three pixels, color 4, then one transparent) 18:52:53 yeah heh 18:53:13 That's why I thought of it. 18:53:33 It's a decoded image that's easy to get to, as I have a save in that area. 18:54:04 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:39 Anyway, what I notice is ffd0 4444 4400 fb11 for the first row, then ffd3 0044 4944 4444 fe43 for the next row. 18:55:48 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-236-34.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:03 Yeah, #x53 is one of the grayish colors. 18:57:37 Asgeir [n=asgeir@tri59-1-82-233-201-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:45 hello guys 18:58:31 these hiwords with no lowbytes are interesting 18:58:36 suffixes maybe? 18:58:37 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit ["c Ya"] 18:58:41 mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:58:44 pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has joined #lisp 18:58:55 Call it 8 or 9 transparent pixels between the two opaque ranges in row 2... 18:58:58 mrSpec_ [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 18:59:11 I'm looking for a good lisp book, but they seems to be all very good. I have to chose between successful lisp, ansi cl, & others 18:59:34 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:59:37 (and I've read all 10000000 « lisp book » threads on c.l.l) 18:59:43 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcg171.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:00:03 -!- mrSpec_ is now known as mrSpec 19:00:09 minion: tell Asgeir about pcl 19:00:11 Asgeir: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:00:13 minion: tell Asgeir about sicp 19:00:14 Asgeir: look at sicp: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available gratis from (HTML), (texinfo) and (XHTML, PDF). Accompanying video lectures are available gratis at 19:00:18 Those too? 19:00:27 =D 19:00:52 pcl is not my favorite, therefore by elimination... 19:01:03 and sicp is too big/hard for the moment ^^ 19:01:18 Also, have you read the CLOS book by Sonja Keene? 19:01:46 Asgeir: PCL really may be the best bet if you're a beginner 19:01:46 I haven't read any lisp book 19:01:49 i have a problem with tab completion with clojure in emacs & slime. i always get this error message: "Synchronous Lisp Evaluation aborted". maybe someone knows how to solve this? 19:01:57 or, Lisp in Small Pieces from Queinnec? 19:01:57 oops 19:02:02 wrong channel 19:02:53 I'm not really a beginner, I need a medium lisp book, but sicp is too theorical for me (for now) 19:02:54 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-183-159.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:03:05 did you try PCL? 19:03:08 yes 19:03:30 <_death> On Lisp or PAIP 19:03:46 hum, do you see any bad thing in successful lisp, for example ? 19:03:53 -!- willb [n=wibenton@nat/redhat/x-e99622bcbefe91a7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:25 lucca: All of the 80x80 pixel images in this file start off with a highword then 0000, then another control code. 19:04:26 Asgeir: It covers similar things as PCL, but PCL is more practical 19:04:32 hum 19:04:44 I'll compare the contents 19:05:32 heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:43 never read it 19:05:46 hum, ok, I did my choice. 19:05:49 Thanks a lot :D 19:05:58 I see b39d 0000 ffd0, 9aff 0000 ffff ffdd, a6df 0000 ffcd, b41a 0000 ffcc, a297 0000 ffcf, and b1fb 0000 ffcf. 19:06:00 the horrible bigot in me notes that the paper version is from a vanity press 19:06:13 willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:06:14 The only "wierd" one is the second one, with the ffff block. 19:06:26 :D 19:06:51 but that's not always a bad thing 19:06:56 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:58 and if it's online you can always try it there 19:07:49 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 19:08:13 What if this is a combination of raw data, flood commands, and copy commands? 19:08:48 <_3b> i assume nothing there looks like copy/store opcodes? 19:09:22 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.232.53] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:09:29 It all looks like lightly-compressed data, not code. 19:10:04 flood? you mean in 2 dimensions? 19:10:12 *lucca* turns green 19:10:34 No, wasn't thinking 2d. 19:10:44 though a 1d flood and then overwrite makes some sense 19:10:55 But... What if the b39d was a "fill X reps of the following word"? 19:11:08 and storing a row as a difference from the last row also makes some sense 19:11:45 And perhaps some of the controls are paired or something? 19:12:04 Can anyone suggest a good lisp web framework that I can run on an apache virtual host with FastCGI? The two I was most interested in are UCW and weblocks and they seem to use either mod_lisp or hunchentoot. 19:12:28 Asgeir: I can recommend PAIP if you are allready familiar with lisp structure and just a little bit interested in AI programming. It's not *as* CS-coursey as SICP. 19:13:19 hum 19:13:54 I'm familliar with lisp, 'cause I know elisp and a bit of cl 19:13:58 Hrm... I have a chunk here, ffd0 followed by 6 words. Our first ffd0 is followed by 2 words. 19:14:36 tomsw: uuuh, you can make a lot of stuff run under that. pick a lisp + UCW 19:14:40 but the lisp overview is not enough for me... 19:14:50 Kindof leaves me wondering if a highbit word in the decoded output needs to be escaped. 19:14:51 yeah, we already know the lobyte len isn't related to the hiword header 19:15:04 on the other hand, they talk about ansi cl and scheme ? 19:15:06 hmmmm 19:15:20 ff ff is probably only a bulk escape 19:15:20 sykopomp` [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:15:22 Do we, or is it possibly buried behind the most proximate header? 19:15:24 heow: using fastcgi? 19:15:45 nyef: well we have many cases of identical hiwords followed by differing lobyte counts 19:16:03 but if some of these are just escapes instead... hm 19:16:16 They wouldn't be escapes with this data. 19:16:55 But since it's a lossless 8-bit-clean compression scheme, there might be escapes in the other data set I have. 19:17:06 The one for the diary screens. 19:17:21 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E4667C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:22 Asgeir: I recommend PCL. It covers just about everything with motivating examples. 19:17:23 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E4667C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:17:27 ahhh, could you post a diary entry? 19:17:31 tomsw: totally http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/fastcgi.html But that's not the tutorial I was thinking of. 19:17:34 Asgeir: PAIP is mostly CL, a little scheme. SICP is all scheme, and does get a bit .. technical .. towards the end (hardware scheme implementations and scheme compilers etc.) I like PAIP because it teaches AI programming alongside teaching CL. 19:17:53 should be able to do known-cleartext attacks on That 19:18:08 lucca: 320x240x8 decompressed. 19:18:18 oh, a graphical diary? 19:18:21 Yeah. 19:18:31 was hoping for text 19:18:37 And with them, they also compressed the image header and palette. 19:18:50 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:19:11 (The other style of image header, not the somewhat minimal ones we're looking at now.) 19:20:00 some of the hiwords may include a 2D offset from the previous drawing location 19:20:21 heow: if you find it that would be great. I have sbcl installed and installed weblocks and its various dependencies before realising that hunchentoot wouldn't be much use behind an apache virtual host 19:20:46 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:21:07 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:21:15 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 19:21:15 tomsw: Hunchentoot supports virtual hosts 19:21:58 and it certainly works fine BEHIND an a apache one, where apache is doing the virtual host bit 19:22:44 Okay, we have b39d 0000 ffd0 to start off, then we have 4444 4400 being the first visible bit of the image. 19:22:45 rsynnott: didn't know you could do that, hmmmm. 19:22:46 do all image datas starting with #xBn nn XX YY have XX == YY? 19:22:52 rsynnott: great. How do I set that up? 19:22:54 aggieben [n=aggieben@dhcp7-57.geusnet.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:03 rsynnott: :) 19:23:11 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 19:23:14 That I couldn't tell you. 19:23:23 should just be a case of having apache act as a reverse proxy to hunchentoot's port for that particular virtual host 19:23:32 this is covered in the hunchentoot docs, I think 19:23:35 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:23:39 seems like a setbg command 19:23:42 tomsw: I think I've given up on my parsing approach. I'm taking another look at the kind of object mapping you were talking about 19:23:49 (at least the reverse proxy thing; reverse proxies with virtual hosts are covered elsewhere) 19:24:09 What I can tell you is that the sequence fb11 ffd3 runs from one point on a row to four pixels earlier on the next row filling with transparency. 19:24:31 We then have 0044 4944 4444, which is visible, of course. 19:24:42 fastcgi doesn't seem a popular approach; if nothing else, many fastcgi impls do not handle the case where you have multiple threads, as opposed to multiple processes, handling fastcgi requests at all well 19:24:43 <_3b> thats on the 80 pixel rows? 19:24:46 Then fe43 f4a1. 19:24:47 Yeah. 19:25:25 And then we have 4453 4949 4444. 19:25:51 scgi is kinda like fastcgi but simpler 19:25:59 might be worth looking at if you want something "like" fastcgi 19:25:59 Which is on the third row. 19:26:31 though I don't think there's a commonly-used scgi impl for lisp, either 19:26:38 Looks like one pixel in from the prior row, which makes it one word in, as the prior row had that 00 at the start. 19:26:43 perhaps not but it'd be easy to write one 19:27:03 fastcgi also isn't terribly fast. 19:27:45 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:27:49 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:58 heow: it was just the one easiest to set up on dreamhost 19:27:58 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:03 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:28:51 tomsw: is this a VM provided by dreamhost? 19:29:01 -!- sykopomp [n=sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:29:01 That's a point. We know that the sequence fb11 ffd3 takes up some #x26 words. 19:29:23 rsynnott: it's just a linux box, pretty sure it's not a vm 19:29:53 but you have full control over it? 19:30:00 or is it just a shared hosting setup? 19:30:14 And that fe43 f4a1 takes up some number of words that we can calculate. 19:30:21 rsynnott: the latter - hence no mod_lisp, local installation of sbcl 19:30:23 -!- tChAnDy [n=debian@201-41-202-246.bnut3703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:37 tChAnDy [n=debian@201-41-202-246.bnut3703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:31:06 oah 19:31:07 *ah 19:31:33 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-41f43f55eb5510b7] has joined #lisp 19:32:59 you're getting these pixelcounts by eyeballing the thing on a tvscreen? 19:33:12 Yes. 19:33:16 rsynnott: but with the reverse proxy setup, perhaps hunchentoot could listen on a local port and Apache would do the work of getting requests from the real world? 19:33:21 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:34:00 *tomsw* has forgotten a lot about web hosting 19:34:10 Well, that, and I know it's an 8-bit image 80 pixels wide. 19:34:17 -!- flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has quit ["leaving"] 19:34:27 That allows me to figure part of it by dead reckoning. 19:34:38 flazz [n=franco@qubes.org] has joined #lisp 19:34:52 yep, but I doubt you'll be allowed do that on a shared hosting setup 19:34:56 (tomsw) 19:36:57 that big image has things not in the little ones 19:37:03 in particular... 19:37:30 the hiword f582 is followed by Three lowbytes instead of an even number like all the others 19:38:04 rsynnott: so maybe I will in fact have more luck (but less performace) using fastcgi 19:38:16 aggieben: howdy, sorry, missed your message 19:38:36 lucca: Is that the first or second one? 19:38:55 tomsw: FastCGI is also flexible, you can use many different lisps. 19:39:13 in the big image you posted, errrr, the first occurrence of f5 82 19:39:35 Second one doesn't have -any-. Maybe it's an escape of some sort? 19:39:41 mebbe 19:39:50 heow: sorry to be dumb, but if I want to use UCW, or weblocks, can I use them without hunchentoot and just fastcgi? 19:40:48 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:41:26 Jarv2 [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:41:26 tomsw: ucw doesn't use hunchentoot, and AFAIK weblocks can't work without hunchentoot 19:41:34 tomsw: definately UCW but I'm not famillar with weblocks 19:42:50 Phaze: oh 19:42:55 UCW has a fastcgi backend? 19:43:06 so you recommand PAIP to begin cl when you already know lisp ? 19:43:08 fe[nl]ix: thanks, don't know where I got the impression weblocks was built on ucw, especially considering the time I spent installing the dependencies 19:43:24 damn :D 19:44:13 hm, the second ffc1 has 55 5a then 7b 7b.... 19:44:14 Asgeir: PCL is nice too, don't worry. I just like Norwig because he seems to know what he's talking about. And it's a big book, 900 pages. 19:44:23 coming from the ease of rails, I'm getting that "we're not in kansas now" feeling 19:44:32 7b-40 is outside the 32color range.. 19:44:45 Phaze: yes, but I don't like PCL ^^ 19:46:14 <_death> Asgeir: what don't you like about PCL? 19:46:27 housel: UCW is a tool. I'm pretty sure you can play with it w/o even a webserver. 19:46:34 Asgeir: then I think PAIP might be a nice alternative. Unless you like compiler stuff, then LISP (lisp in small peices) might interest you. He supposedly implements 7 interpreters and 2 compilers. 19:46:53 aggieben: a question: you read the xml and turn it into lisp objects. Once an object is instantiated, is that it, or will some (much) later information modify it? 19:47:19 Hum 19:48:45 -!- djarvelis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:49:24 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:50:08 There's too much books :D 19:50:31 ;) 19:50:43 lucca: Okay, I'm up to the first f582, and I see it as a run of about 6 transparent pixels, followed by a 0044, which is visible in row 3 of the image. 19:51:06 Asgeir: you can find a good list of the books here: http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20books 19:51:22 -!- clupacizra [n=jake@c-71-232-92-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:51:34 moocow [n=new@76.77.79.226] has joined #lisp 19:51:54 oh, thanks Phaze :D 19:52:04 The only explanation I can come up with for the 1dbd is that it's #x20 bytes after the b39d. 19:52:04 I was always getting 404 on alu.cliki.net 19:52:05 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@69.166.35.201] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:52:27 np (: 19:53:14 it does look like 00 44 1d bd f7 1c is right instead of starting a new block at bd f7 19:53:35 b_ __ seems to only appear at the beginnings of images? 19:53:47 otherwise it's e/f_ __ 19:54:15 hm, no, one of the little ones with an ff ff block has a df ff block above it 19:55:03 I've got it. It's a bitmap. 19:55:20 Take the first #x22 bytes of the block. 19:55:32 okay? 19:55:32 It's b39d, followed by 16 words. 19:55:49 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:56:00 Represent b39d as binary, then line up which words are hiwords and which words are pixel data. 19:57:13 that fits, but I'm not sure what that means 19:57:14 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:57:41 It means we have a reliable way to figure out which bits are control/command codes? 19:57:48 heow: any tips on how to use fastcgi as a backend for ucw, then? I don't think I have a better alternative. 19:58:15 heh, well yes 19:58:19 Also means that those ffff blocks aren't escapes. 19:59:48 And, looking at one of these blocks, a command word of 0000 is an end-of-data. 20:00:00 that fits all of them that i've seen 20:00:30 tomsw: First get FastCGI working, that'll be the hard part. Once you have HelloWorld flying, you can then just load up UCW and start generating HTML content. 20:00:54 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-2-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:10 this bitmap thing really cleans up the non-bitmap data quite a bit 20:01:28 it's all 00, 40-5f, or hibit word 20:01:31 i think 20:02:34 -!- Jarv2 is now known as Jarvellis 20:02:39 Hrm. This might be amusing. 20:03:06 -!- user___ [n=user@p54923B1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:03:18 On the first row, we have 4444 4400, then fb11 ffd3 for control codes. And we know that eats up #x26 words. 20:03:38 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:03:43 Taking a low 5 or 6 bits of those control codes gets us #x11 and #x13. 20:03:54 Which is #x24. 20:04:20 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:04:27 in some smaller bitmaps there are no commands codes after the bitmaps 20:04:30 So how about a negative offset to copy from, and a length. 20:04:41 Oh? 20:04:52 e.g. ED E9 (bitmap) followed directly by 46 46 46 5c 46 46 20:05:05 (and then a ff c8 ...) 20:05:28 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:05:38 Yeah. E has 3 bits, then 4646 465c 4646 as literal data, then your command code. 20:06:15 And if that command code was "copy the last word 8 times"? 20:07:02 (Or rather, insert 8 words copied from the word 1 behind the current position.) 20:07:25 This gives us a sliding window from which to copy out a sequence. 20:08:08 hmmmm 20:08:49 I think I'm going to go find a snack, and then try coding this up. 20:09:08 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E4667C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 20:09:24 starting to sound like lz77 20:09:32 but with a much smaller window, heh 20:09:33 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:41 Mmm. 20:09:51 And isn't lz77 usually implemented as a bit-oriented compressor? 20:10:02 Or am I mis-remembering? 20:10:16 usually byte oriented I believe 20:10:34 though it can be combined with bit oriented stuff like huffman 20:10:58 -!- dfox__ is now known as dfox 20:12:22 so perhaps these 16bit command codes are length-distance pairs 20:12:33 Exactly. 20:12:37 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.125] has quit ["Cryptanalysis doesn't break cryptosystems. Bruce Schneier breaks cryptosystems."] 20:13:09 -!- dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:14:12 -!- NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-73.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:16:24 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 20:17:33 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 20:18:16 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 20:19:40 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 20:20:36 clhs 22.1.3.1.3 20:20:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_acac.htm 20:20:43 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:36 shouldn't 1.e8 be printed as "1.0e8"? 20:22:50 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 20:22:54 by what, #'print ? 20:22:58 i'm thinking lzss now 20:24:04 salex: yes, and prin1, princ, etc. 20:25:13 michaelw: looks like it, yes. 20:25:57 do you have a case where this matters? 20:26:07 I have class A, one of its slots is an instance of class B. Can I define a method for (setf ), such that it'll also setf a slot of class A? 20:26:47 e.g. can I somehow get the "parent" object? 20:26:56 how would it know? 20:27:50 salex: hmm? printing floats to strings such that other programs can read them? 20:28:20 michaelw: sure, but you'd use format to control the output 20:28:49 i'm not disagreeing that it ought to follow the spec 20:29:26 i'm just saying if it isn't correct in this particular case, it doens't surprise me that nobody has cared enoguh to fix it 20:30:10 so long as print/prin1/princ and read work together, i mean 20:37:27 nyef: the pairs have the hibit set on the word... but why? if the bitmap word marks them out, it seems like wasting a bit to mark them again 20:37:42 Negative offset? 20:39:26 maybe, but still kinda silly 20:40:00 Not really. If it's a negative offset, that still might not be a sign bit. 20:40:53 okay, what was the offset of the 44 44 44 in the first row? 20:41:23 About 22 pixels? 20:42:12 well FFD0 might be (-1,-48) 20:42:16 <_3b> was there more on that line, or just transparent after that? 20:42:31 _3b: The first line? Just transparent. 20:43:02 -!- malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbfdae.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:43:02 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:43:04 hmm, definitely decoding these wrong 20:43:21 Yeah, same here. But it's a definate improvement. 20:44:20 seems like it works on words, not bytes 20:44:37 That was my assumption, yes. 20:45:33 Got it! 20:45:38 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:45:39 the third bitblock has hitbits in lit data 20:45:42 I missed a 1+ on the length. 20:45:44 hibits rather 20:45:45 oh? 20:46:03 Yeah, now how do I take a screenshot? 20:46:21 what are you In? 20:46:51 Linux. 20:47:00 gimp could 20:47:20 xv, various other x apps 20:47:56 nyef: print-key? 20:47:56 I'm looking at xwd -root | xwd2pnm | pnmtopng. 20:48:18 demmeln: " is undefined" 20:48:36 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:48:39 nyef: If you're running Gnome, press Print Scr. 20:49:20 I suppose it works in KDE too. 20:51:12 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:51:21 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.240] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:51:33 http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/shot1.png 20:51:34 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:48 clupacizra [n=jake@c-71-232-92-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:52 -!- tomsw [n=user@d54C1C1A4.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 20:52:38 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:53:01 hmmmmmmmm 20:53:06 nyef annotated #74030 with "A decompressor" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/74030#5 20:53:59 lucca, _3b: Thanks for the help! 20:54:11 heh, was great fun. 20:54:21 Cool. 20:54:25 nice! 20:56:14 er 20:56:21 your system is named kana? 20:56:31 Yeah. 20:56:46 ...likewise, heh! 20:56:54 I also have nemu, rakka, and hikaru around somewhere. 20:57:12 Or was it hikari? I forget, and I might have both. 20:57:15 well, look what hostname i'm connected from 20:57:18 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:26 Heh. 20:57:54 Now that's cool. 20:57:56 used reki already... nemu, rakka, and hikaru are unassigned for the moment 20:58:38 Ah, hikari is the one that I've definately used. 20:59:22 (My nslu2, which boots from flash memory, hence the pun...) 20:59:58 I'd make fun of you guys, if I knew what you were talking about 21:00:08 haibane renmei. 21:00:37 Or, in the case of my slug, hikaru's dog from rayearth. 21:01:07 hefner: hikari means light in japanese 21:01:17 also a common name 21:01:18 nyef: you like haibane renmei ? 21:01:35 fe[nl]ix: It was cool. I haven't watched it in ages. 21:02:28 :D 21:02:49 I thought it was hikaru that was light, and hikari was flash-of-light? 21:03:22 Or am I mixing it up with flame/fire somehow? 21:03:32 you're all dorks. I say that in a nice way :) 21:04:48 nyef: AFAIK hikaru means to shine 21:05:04 Hmm... It might be time for me to hit the dictionary. 21:05:12 hikaru is the verb to shine...hikari is the noun light 21:05:30 ok 21:05:35 Fair enough. 21:06:02 -!- avdi [n=avdi@c-71-58-195-219.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:07:19 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcg171.osnanet.de] has quit [] 21:10:20 Does make-instance use setf for initializing the slots? 21:12:15 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:13:06 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:13:23 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:13:38 *rsynnott* wonders why no-one calls their computers things in, say, Yiddish or Hindi 21:13:42 still seems ridiculous to compress the diary pages that way 21:14:05 z0d: clhs initialize-instance 21:14:09 but I guess cdroms have the same amount of storage no matter what you do with it 21:14:10 hmm 21:14:13 clhs initialize-instance 21:14:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_init_i.htm 21:14:38 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:19 -!- dcl is now known as spiderbyte 21:15:35 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:16:08 jollygood_ [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:09 What really seems ridiculous is that the compression isn't applied anywhere near uniformly. 21:16:10 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:25 rsynnott: Yiddish or Hindi mythologies are not very popular around the world 21:16:36 Hun Thanks. 21:16:51 *sykopomp* names computers after Old Ones from the Cthulhu mythos. 21:16:53 And the amount of duplication of data! Eesh. 21:18:21 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:18:22 sykopomp: you must need tab completion on everything 21:18:22 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:19:39 There are 59 "stage" directories, and 54 of them have an archive file ranging from 14k to 350k with "object"s in them. 21:19:48 dlowe: I pick the easy ones, like "Dagon". Plus, I don't actually write my hostname much, so I could have something like nyarlathotep without much of a hassle. 21:19:53 All of the objects are also available in individual files in another directory. 21:20:03 And they're not compressed. 21:21:05 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178063134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:09 nyef: showing up in multiple places on the filesystem doesn't mean they're duplicated necessarily 21:21:24 iso9660 can do some perverse things 21:21:45 Archive files, though. 21:21:54 oh 21:22:00 Yeah. Oh. 21:22:06 ...sounds sloppy 21:22:34 mrSpec_ [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 21:22:39 bleh, wish they were still around 21:22:43 -!- mrSpec [n=noOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:22:45 I have a bunch of workingdesigns stuff 21:22:49 in my first job, the computers were named after elements 21:22:50 -!- mrSpec_ is now known as mrSpec 21:22:58 (my desktop was rb, because rob) 21:23:01 -!- heow [n=user@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has left #lisp 21:23:36 in a previous job, it was mandated that all servers receive bird names, so that there would be less controversy and no one would be offended by name choices 21:24:02 -!- Thumper_ [n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:24:12 <_3b> so was there competition for the offensive sounding bird names? 21:24:14 naturally birds like cock, booby, swallow, and so forth were selected 21:24:14 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@249.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:24:17 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:24:46 >_< 21:24:46 Reminds me of the story of scunthorpe's offensive-email filter. 21:24:52 greattit? :) 21:25:02 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:25:09 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:11 Thumper_ [n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper] has joined #lisp 21:25:13 rsynnott: heh, i think they went with bushtit, for a double-score 21:25:24 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:25:49 frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:26:14 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:20 <_3b> yeah, filtering on substrings is always amusing 21:28:37 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:05 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:32 Is it possible to trace a function defined with LABELS in SBCL? 21:30:48 DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-33-178.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 21:32:58 so nothing concrete so far as far as lisp-llvm interaction/use? 21:33:29 dto: spanish 21:33:38 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:34:12 que? 21:34:17 nada 21:34:31 Acknowledged 21:36:07 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 21:37:02 -!- frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:03 -!- Thumper_ [n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:13 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec_afk 21:39:28 Thumper_ [n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper] has joined #lisp 21:40:08 benny` [n=benny@i577A0DED.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:20 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0DED.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:43:22 (coordinate query in the llvm channel so far yields a negatory) 21:45:32 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:11 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:26 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:58 frontiers [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:53:20 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:00 netaustin [n=austinsm@rrcs-72-43-187-82.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:04 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:52 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 21:59:58 -!- DeusExPikachu [n=DeusExPi@wireless-169-235-33-178.ucr.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:00:44 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-218-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:06 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 22:01:18 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:04:54 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-13-28.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 22:05:05 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:18 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:05:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-13-28.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Client Quit] 22:07:21 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 22:07:53 -!- frontier1 [n=jackb@ti0151a340-dhcp0479.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:08 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:10:25 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:14:02 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@d54C2899A.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:14:54 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:21:05 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:42 ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 22:22:52 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.27] has joined #lisp 22:23:07 -!- archangelpetro [n=archange@cpc2-oxfd4-0-0-cust85.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:23:13 mvr [n=mitchell@d122-105-155-182.rdl13.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 hi, is there a texinfo version of cltl2 available? 22:23:19 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-242-231.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 22:23:32 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:56 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:25:45 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a6476b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8622fae3e2919295] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:26:20 clhs | 22:26:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for |. 22:26:34 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:26:46 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:26:47 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:44 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:29:58 -!- slyrus__ is now known as slyrus_ 22:31:06 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:06 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:36:27 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-2-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 22:38:28 milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.225] has joined #lisp 22:39:43 If I have an escaped symbol |foo|, how do I get rid of the ||s? I don't need to preserve case. 22:39:57 s/need/want/ 22:41:07 try (intern (string-upcase symbol) (symbol-package symbol)) 22:41:14 z0d: how did you make that symbol ? 22:41:48 fe[nl]ix: (find-symbol (format ...)) 22:41:57 hmmm 22:42:05 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:42:07 -!- cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:42:11 cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 22:42:24 antifuchs: Thans 22:42:28 Thanks* 22:42:41 you'll need to upcase all strings that you intern in order to avoid having lower-case symbol names 22:42:50 (intern (string-upcase ....)) is a common pattern 22:43:13 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 22:43:48 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:08 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:45:33 i have a intern-upcase in my utils because of that 22:45:46 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@114-198-60-232.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:46:41 ``Erik [i=erik@c-76-111-12-116.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:57 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig110.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 22:47:08 demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig110.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 22:50:37 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:51:13 ypsa [n=ypsa@217-115-252-250.cust.avonet.cz] has joined #lisp 22:52:41 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:53:15 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:54:52 KingThomasV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:50 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:56:22 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:59:55 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 23:00:32 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:32 dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:33 -!- dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:00:47 Hun: wouldn't it be simpler just to ensure you're using upper case when you create the string? 23:01:07 it depends 23:01:23 in this case it comes from a filtered interactive input 23:01:36 an inline assembler for a debugger, to be exact 23:01:56 i don't want to enforce capitalization on users actively debugging stuff 23:01:56 hi, when i do (asdf-install:install 'hunchentoot) i get the error "The variable ASDF:COMPILE-OP is unbound." -- anyone know why this is? 23:02:18 (require 'asdf) 23:02:25 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcg171.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:35 Hun: makes sense (I think) 23:03:04 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcg171.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:03:15 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslcg171.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:03:24 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:04:16 gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-67aee64822635bc3] has joined #lisp 23:04:47 hefner: I'm using a patch of yours for clim update-mirror-geometry. do you by any chance know of the top of your head why this isn't integrated into mcclim? 23:04:57 z0d: i had already require'd asdf followed by asdf-install when i encountered that error 23:05:58 -!- Asgeir [n=asgeir@tri59-1-82-233-201-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["mi tawa!"] 23:07:33 hefner: actually never mind. sorry. g2g catch a train. or if you know leave me memo. thanks 23:07:35 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig110.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 23:07:39 Hmm, in what situation will sbcl's arch_os_get_current_thread() return NULL? 23:08:41 -!- ignotus [n=ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 23:10:54 -!- KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:14:05 Hmm, I guess it returns 0 when we're on the initial thread. Nevermind. 23:14:51 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 23:15:42 minion, memo for demmeln: the bug lies in code which changes the mapping between CLIM/X11 coordinates, needed to work around X11's small coordinate range (65k). My patch 'fixes' the bug by disabling all that code, at the cost breaking if your pane grows larger than the X11 maximum. 23:15:43 Remembered. I'll tell demmeln when he/she/it next speaks. 23:20:07 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:20:16 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:20:43 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:17 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:21:34 rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 23:22:12 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:13 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:40 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:23:41 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-119-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:57 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:19 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:56 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:51 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:42 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:47 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:31:35 -!- Beeet [n=stathis@ppp12-241.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:35:54 -!- tsuru` [n=user@66.199.17.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36:31 slyrus__ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:43:23 cavelife [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has joined #lisp 23:45:13 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:13 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:49:16 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless93.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:49:16 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:01 qbg [n=qbg@apollo.morris.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 23:52:49 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483F06B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:55:53 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.225] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:58:48 -!- qbg [n=qbg@apollo.morris.umn.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]