00:00:14 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:02:04 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:02:55 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:25 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:14 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:30 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:39 -!- mait [n=user@genyv.rot.sgsnet.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:09:01 -!- ice_four [n=ice_four@host81-129-85-153.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:10:12 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 00:13:10 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:21 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:27 ice_four [n=ice_four@host217-42-103-244.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:29 emma_ [n=emma@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:21:33 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:21:44 -!- njsg [n=njsg@bl9-136-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["(format nil "cya")"] 00:23:28 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:04 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 00:26:35 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.223.189] has joined #lisp 00:27:01 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:24 NorthStar [i=email@89-180-200-184.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 00:27:36 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 00:27:43 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:29:01 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 00:29:19 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:33 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:29:41 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:29:52 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net/"] 00:30:07 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:39 afternoon 00:30:47 -!- dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-002-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:31:12 Well my project seemed to have failed. So I ask you #lisp, what do I look into to catch sigwinch in sbcl? 00:32:16 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:09 -!- l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has quit ["foo"] 00:34:12 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-025-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:28 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BA11.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:34:33 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.127.12] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:35:09 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:35:55 KingThomasIV [n=KingThom@c-66-177-17-200.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:16 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 00:37:29 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:41:07 sledge [n=chris@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 00:42:43 wher 00:43:14 Sorry, wrong channel. 00:43:19 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-185-5.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:47 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-185-5.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:02 doug [i=doug@breakout.telerama.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:07 mmmm 00:46:20 i'm looking for a cheap way to count uniqes in a sorted list, i.e. (1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3) => ((1 . 4) (2 . 4) (3 . 2)) 00:46:21 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:46:22 -!- mjmcevoy is now known as mjmcevoy-away 00:46:38 actually, short, not necessarily cheap 00:46:54 ("uniques") 00:48:21 -!- srwences [n=srwences@c-68-84-129-84.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:50:07 (let ((unique (remove-duplicates list))) (loop for i in unique collect (cons i (count i list)))) 00:50:27 <_death> (hash-table-alist (let ((ht (make-hash-table))) (dolist (x list) (incf (gethash x ht 0))) ht)) 00:51:04 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:51:11 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:52:12 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 00:52:28 yeah, hash tables is how i was doing it. something seems impure about that approach, though. 00:52:46 <_death> purity is that way -> #scheme/haskell/what-have-you 00:52:53 funny, my first thought was _death's version but I thought it would somewhat longer than stassats`'s or similar. Truth be told, I didn't know about hash-table-alist. 00:53:07 (loop for i in (sort (remove-duplicates list) #'>) collect (cons i (count i list))) with sorting 00:53:08 <_death> xan: presupposes alexandria 00:53:24 i'm actually doing this in scheme 00:53:33 <_death> then again, I think alexandria has some histogram function as well 00:53:38 -!- macdice [n=macdice@78-86-162-220.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 00:53:45 _death, a worthy addition to the standard that would be :) 00:53:53 -!- mrSpec [n=Win@82.177.125.6] has quit ["bb"] 00:53:55 <_death> xan: alexandria is pretty standard here :) 00:53:57 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:54:29 right :) 00:54:43 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-37-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:54:53 i was starting to think of recursive ways, hoping to end up with something like ((1 . (+ 1 (+ 1 0))(2 . (+ 1 (+ 1 0)))) forms 00:55:27 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:37 why recursion? 00:55:37 usocket doesn't provide a way to get a remote address from stream-server-usocket object? get-peer-name only works for stream-usocket object. 00:56:13 recursion to shorten it: no use of loop vars or syntax 00:56:20 schme_: what are you trying to do with sigwinch? 00:56:50 a curses backend for mcclim? :) 00:56:59 slyrus_: No. Just a curses app in general. 00:57:09 also, the list will be sorted, so hash table does seem like overkill 00:57:31 tomoyuki28jp: server sockets don't have a remote address 00:57:37 -!- Beeet is now known as Beket 00:57:37 my preference is to avoid list-mangling side-effects, although i may give up on that idea 00:58:51 fe[nl]ix: I am getting little confusing. If we don't know which remote host send a request, we cannot send a response, right? 00:59:33 slyrus_: cl-ncurses does not seem to mention a thing about it. 00:59:47 fe[nl]ix: What I am trying to do is I implemented a http server with usocket, and I want to know a way to get the remote host who send requests for logging. 01:00:16 I use usocket:socket-listen function. 01:00:32 <_death> doug: overkill? you asked for a short version 01:01:14 tomoyuki28jp: you can't do that: you must first call socket-accept to get a client socket, then you can get the remote address of the client socket 01:01:30 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:01:36 hm, i guess i had additional qualification in mind. i'm attempting to go for elegant. 01:03:32 fe[nl]ix: I do call socket-accept after calling socket listen. This is a part of the code. http://paste.lisp.org/display/73834 01:05:21 fe[nl]ix: Oh, I think I got the sense. So socket-accept returns a stream-usocket obuject. So I can get a remote host from it, correct? 01:05:37 yes 01:05:38 I think I have tried that way thought. I will retry. 01:05:41 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:12 eaumontab [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 01:06:42 brb 01:10:06 okay, so i cranked this out: (define (dx a i l) (if (null? l) (cons a i) (if (= a (car l)) (dx a (+ i 1) (cdr l)) (list (cons a i) (dx (car l) 0 (cdr l)))))) 01:10:18 seems i oughta be able to cut that down a bit tho 01:10:29 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:10:55 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 01:11:04 is that an assignment? 01:11:17 it's also not quite correct 01:11:42 not an assignment, although i am trying to one up someone 01:12:49 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit ["going to moon brb"] 01:13:31 so you only want this to work on lists? 01:13:35 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:14:11 danlei [n=user@pD9E2FF61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:46 okay, this one's correct, but still seems too long to me: (define (dx a i l) (if (null? l) (cons a i) (if (= a (car l)) (dx a (+ i 1) (cdr l)) (list (cons a i) (dx (car l) 0 l))))) 01:14:57 i only need it to work on a list of integers 01:16:07 how do you know that it is long or short? 01:16:31 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:16:40 hm, i don't have a hard-and-fast criteria. "i'll know when i know." 01:16:47 also, this is scheme 01:17:36 http://www.umcs.maine.edu/~chaitin/lisp.html about elegant programs and Gödel incompleteness 01:18:40 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c007h037.acad.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 01:19:36 it's part of a larger attempt to do something "cool" 01:19:55 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:14 i.e. encode/decode text in godel numbers 01:20:30 if you always will be seeking for shorter procedures you will never do anything cool 01:20:51 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:20:51 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:21:39 yeah, i guess that dude's definition applies, it's not elegant until it's as short as possible. 01:21:46 the "short as possible" part can be tricky.. 01:22:30 i don't like the two ifs, although it seems necessary if i'm also using bifurcated recursion, as there has to be 3 cases 01:22:34 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:37 pkhuong pasted "useless uniq" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73835 01:23:10 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:24:32 -!- mjmcevoy-away is now known as mjmcevoy 01:25:05 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:32 yup, that does it pkhuong (second form for me, at least) 01:25:47 i have similar to the second function, but i do "for prev in list for next in (cdr list)" 01:25:50 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:25:52 first one bombed, current-elt undefined 01:27:05 fe[nl]ix: That perfectly works. Thanks for your advice! It helps me a lot. 01:27:07 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:43 although, pkhohng, yours is 234 non-whitespace chars, while mine is 91... 01:27:54 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:28:32 <_3b> count tokens... if you want to count chars, use j or something :p 01:29:09 schme_: Any luck with the sigwinch thing? 01:29:47 nyef: Hoh. Well not really. I found some sbcl documentation saying "well man signal handlers are written in C, and they usually call lisp functions." 01:30:03 roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 01:30:10 (count #\Space "(loop for i in (remove-duplicates l) collect (cons i (count i l)))" :test #'char/=) => 55 01:30:29 schme_: Have a look at sb-sys:enable-interrupt. 01:30:43 nyef: probably a good thing. It strikes me as writing curses apps in sbcl just seems odd :) 01:30:47 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483EDCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:31:18 oh that's interesting. 01:31:25 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-37-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:31:42 Just realize that signal handlers are dangerous places to want to execute arbitrary code from. 01:31:56 Oh ya? 01:32:17 *schme_* likes living on the edge 01:32:48 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:33:16 Yeah. Partly due to unwind semantics. 01:33:28 How odd.. slime is being a pain 01:34:07 ; compilation aborted because of fatal error: 01:34:08 ; READ failure in COMPILE-FILE: 01:34:08 ; SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR at 31873 (line 841, column 39) on #: 01:34:10 l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has joined #lisp 01:34:15 hrrrm 01:37:23 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:37:25 that's great. now it don't even start at all. 01:37:41 heyman [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-83e5d94bf8aea46d] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 -!- heyman [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-83e5d94bf8aea46d] has left #lisp 01:38:42 oh no no 01:38:53 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-83e5d94bf8aea46d] has joined #lisp 01:39:07 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:39:21 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:40:41 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-192-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:54 That's funny. I hit M-. on the sb-sys:enable-interrup and I get cond: Error: failed to find the WRITE-DATE of /home/chandler/Sources/sbcl-builddir/20081201/sbcl/src/code/target-signal.lisp 01:40:58 *schme_* is amused. 01:41:05 -!- ice_four [n=ice_four@host217-42-103-244.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 01:41:09 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:41:41 you are using binary from sbcl.org? 01:42:01 No. 01:42:05 clbuild 01:43:44 but is clbuild bootstrapped from it? 01:44:11 yup 01:44:15 huh. 01:44:19 no wait. 01:44:23 clbuild bootstrapped? 01:44:32 I built the sbcl with a sbcl from sbcl.org 01:44:41 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:50 that's what i was asking 01:44:55 Right. ya. 01:45:23 then, either you are starting wrong sbcl, or... i don't know 01:46:01 nah.. the other one is nuked :) 01:46:37 oh well 01:47:44 maybe you was impersonating chandler and built sbcl in that directory? 01:47:54 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:57 hhaha 01:48:00 probably 01:48:07 Well home dir nuked. I'll do a new one. 01:48:51 ok, next task: take a list of indices into a string, and the string itself, and spit out a new string 01:48:54 (compstring (list 1 1 2 3 1 2 3 2 1 1) "of ") => "oof of foo" 01:49:14 eeehm.. 01:49:25 http://freefr.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/sbcl/sbcl-1.0.23-x86-64-linux-binary.tar.bz2 gives me a 404 01:49:38 select another mirror? 01:49:46 hmmm.. 01:49:57 oh one can do such a thing. cool. 01:50:19 do you need 1.0.23? 01:50:33 Huh? 01:50:38 Well I need some sbcl 01:50:47 :) 01:50:56 not .23 specifically 01:51:09 http://voxel.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/sbcl/sbcl-1.0.24-source.tar.bz2 01:51:36 I'd expect a binary would be more useful. 01:51:46 do gah that's alright man. I've already got 01:51:50 wow. 01:51:57 unless schme_ has some sort of sbcl machine 01:52:13 Well. I do. 01:52:17 "Lean, Mean, SBCL Machine"? 01:52:23 did not you guys get the sbcl CPU for xmas? 01:52:49 nyef: You made me laugh so hard I spat coffee on the keyboard. 01:53:03 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-131-184.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:06 No, I got a wind-up radio for in case the power goes out for another two weeks straight. 01:53:15 ooh! 01:53:22 I was running sbcl on some ssh session before. 01:53:39 I need to colour these xterms. 01:53:46 power outage for two weeks!? 01:54:26 -!- klausi [n=klausi@port-92-202-92-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 01:55:06 Yah. 01:55:19 Well, 13 days and 17 hours or something like that. 01:56:15 12 days, 17 hours? 01:56:20 Something like that. 01:56:36 I had worked it out as 295 hours, anyway. 01:57:29 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-192-40.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:57:47 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:58:12 make-target-1.sh: line 40: tools-for-build/grovel-headers: cannot execute binary file 01:58:15 what!? 01:58:47 wrong arch? 01:58:49 my first try: (define (compstring l s) (map (lambda (n) (substring s (- n 1) n)) l)) 01:59:11 don't like the lambda form much 01:59:23 stassats`: hey that might be right. could be left overs from when I was on 32bit 01:59:47 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:00:09 or mounted with noexec 02:00:11 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c007h037.acad.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:00:17 naaah. 02:00:21 just leftovers :) 02:00:31 *schme_* had a dd accident and reinstalled a brand new 64bit 02:00:37 home being intact 02:00:55 doug: You could maybe use LOOP :) 02:01:15 or labels 02:01:33 schme_: no loop in scheme 02:01:39 Huh. 02:01:49 oh hey DEFINE 02:02:05 *schme_* pulls out the good 'ol "you could maybe try #scheme" ;) 02:02:08 doug, just wondering, you know there's a #scheme right? 02:02:15 and substring 02:02:21 vsingh [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:32 whoa, guess so. 02:02:35 thought i'd tried that already. 02:02:41 guess not. thanks, xan. 02:02:44 doug: We generally pretend that we talk common lisp here :) 02:03:01 yeah, i get it. 02:03:33 This is exactly why one should not touch a system where stuff is working.. stuff just stops working and one has to remember what on earth one did to get it set up in the first place. 02:03:34 -!- mjmcevoy is now known as mjmcevoy-away 02:03:41 -!- vsingh [n=vsingh@CPE0014bf4af6c2-CM000a739caee2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 02:04:18 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:08:43 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:57 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:33 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:10:06 hrm, cffi does not support bitfield structure members, guess I'll have to get the values manually... 02:11:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-102.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:12:57 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-10.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 02:13:16 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 02:16:10 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 02:18:16 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:24 nicou [n=nicou@host9.190-138-201.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:24:07 rudi_ [n=rudi@z118l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:13 -!- nicou [n=nicou@host9.190-138-201.telecom.net.ar] has left #lisp 02:24:30 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 02:29:05 -!- mjmcevoy-away is now known as mjmcevoy 02:29:12 -!- mjmcevoy [n=user@pool-71-121-99-41.sangtx.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:29:59 -!- chris2_ [n=chris@ppp-88-217-67-146.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:32:13 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:36 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-32-127.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:44 greetings all 02:34:05 greetings 02:34:14 how's the blog going> 02:34:15 ? 02:34:36 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-83e5d94bf8aea46d] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:34:52 -!- doug [i=doug@breakout.telerama.com] has left #lisp 02:35:02 had to take 3 days off. renting out the basement to out of towners who came for the inauguration and it's been sorta hectic 02:35:04 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-070ed31913cab5da] has joined #lisp 02:35:34 inauguration of what 02:36:12 I did something wierd with cl-who, however, i might have added a tag to CL-WHO, now i just need to figure out a way to spit out Lispy code which is translated to php, a la parenscript :-) 02:36:24 hold on 02:36:42 oh man.. 02:36:43 inauguration of the new US president 02:36:54 PHP? 02:37:14 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-10.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:37:48 (defmethod convert-tag-to-string-list ((taq (eql :php)) attr-list body body-fn) 02:37:50 (cons (format nil "" body) nil)) 02:38:21 aravind [n=aravind@c-98-234-108-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:25 looks ugly, but it's a nice touch that cl-who is extensible :-) 02:38:39 why would you want to spit out PHP? 02:38:49 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:38:52 or let me rephrase... why did you have to? 02:39:20 dunno, since so many cheap ass hosts only have php on the server, you might be able to write lisp, if you want, not that i need it 02:40:15 hi, any folks here that can help me with weblocks stuff? Just the basics - I am trying to get the myapp part of the docs to run, and it doesn't want to compile. 02:40:15 oh i see. i thought you were using it for your blog 02:40:29 felideon: my client is on a shared host. i offered free hosting to him, on my vpses, but they're too comfortable there. 02:40:54 i see 02:41:13 hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:41:19 fusss: I wanted to ask you. did you do anything similar to this guy: http://dirtyhack.org/vetler/docs/cl-webapp-intro/part-1/ ? 02:41:21 aravind: how far are you in the installation? manual or asdf-install? 02:41:39 fusss: I know you use CL-WHO instead of html-template, but did you use Elephant? 02:42:09 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:37 fusss: the installation is done, I can get the demo to run, but I am having problems getting the first sample app to work. 02:42:46 felideon: Elephant is just the middle-part, you still need a backend storage. i see he is using elephant with sqlite throught clsql. I use sqlite directly through clsql. 02:42:55 benny` [n=benny@i577A08CE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:43:36 fusss: the docs tell you to create your own project - the project is getting created okay and everything. It just won't compile. 02:43:37 fusss: is there any need/advantage to use Elephant/object persistence? 02:44:05 fusss: oh, and I am using asdf-install. 02:44:13 felideon: elephant is utterly beautiful. it's clos, which still works after a power outage :-) 02:45:12 aravind: you know you can generate a sample project from weblocks right? if the example doesn't work, there is an asdf-like command for generating projects. 02:46:15 fusss: yup, the project files are being created okay. But when I go to start it up (with (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :myapp)), its spewing errors. 02:46:26 aravind: you have to start hunchentoot, then start weblocks, and then possibly start your projects sperately. that way you can develop multiple web apps on the same weblocks instance and you don't need the shut them down all. 02:46:40 aravind: post those errors 02:46:43 cooldude127 [n=user@adsl-232-65-104.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:44 -!- pitui [n=pitui@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:47:17 also, it's nice to have tail -f /tmp/hunchentoot.log 02:47:25 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:47:30 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:35 fusss: you using Weblocks for your web projects? 02:49:21 felideon: just one. 02:49:39 fusss: http://pastebin.com/d77891035 02:49:41 cool. I want to create a web app or two without Weblocks, and then give it a try. 02:50:06 -!- rudi [n=rudi@z118l194.static.ctm.net] has quit ["Client exciting"] 02:50:42 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:50:44 aravind: open myapp.lisp and see if the defwebapp form is malformed 02:51:34 I used a different paste bin, last night.. don't remember the url. 02:51:38 anyone have that handy? 02:52:04 look at the channel banner 02:52:19 lisppaste: url 02:52:19 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 02:52:21 -!- bobrown`` [n=user@dsl081-198-234.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:52:31 fusss: thats all the code in myapp.lisp http://pastebin.com/d785329f4 02:52:39 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 02:52:39 pkhuong: thanks 02:53:19 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-81.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 02:53:23 aravind pasted "myapp.lisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73844 02:53:33 aravind: start-myapp is not closed 02:53:38 missing a ) 02:53:58 oh 02:54:06 minion: help msg 02:54:15 dammit, I just trusted it to generate good code! 02:54:31 fusss: let me try it, after closing that. 02:54:52 aravind: :-) you will also need to add a few things. first problem i had with mine was adding google verification for analytics. 02:55:03 minion: help 02:55:04 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 02:55:12 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:15 how can you generate an unbalanced expression? 02:56:19 fusss: at this point, I will be happy to just have a web app, with a single link pointing to www.yahoo.com or www.google.com! 02:56:33 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:58 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A02EA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:56:59 ^ my goal today 02:57:33 fusss pasted "start-weblocks" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73845 02:58:11 aravind: what errors are you getting now? 02:59:13 fusss: seems to be working, it was complaining about conflicting redirect symbols from hutchentoot, and weblocks.. I told it hutchentoot wins. 02:59:45 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:00:59 man... I'd pay good money for a document that held your hand and walked you through how to install libraries, setup your emacs env, and walked you through an application setup... 03:01:52 aravind: before you dive into weblocks, familiarize yourself with hunchentoot and love its simplicity. 03:01:57 I started coming in here and begging for help, but I feel like I haven't been doing my homework.. when I ask for help :( 03:02:05 aravind: i'll make that my first blog post when i finish my blog platform :) 03:02:13 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 03:02:24 aravind: do you have any other questions? 03:02:29 aravind: there's a lot of material for what you mentioned, it's just scattered everywhere. 03:02:50 aravind: so it'd be a good idea to have a one tutorial for start to finish 03:03:03 fusss: oh really? I will read up on it more then. 03:03:22 felideon: yeah, I am scouring google for all the docs I can find. 03:04:22 fusss: nope, now.. I have to feel my way to setting up weblocks to display an object for a class I wrote. 03:04:39 fusss: I at least have a working myapp now, thanks for the help. 03:05:09 aravind: keep in mind the bare hunchentoot equivalent would be 5 lines, at most. 03:05:10 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:01 fusss: right, yeah.. but if I can avoid it.. I'd avoid writing any html like the plague! hence my interest in weblocks. 03:06:32 fusss: but I will heed your advice and get more familiar with hunchentoot. 03:07:01 alright, good luck 03:07:07 thanks. 03:07:42 my first web page was in HTML 3.1 with just Notepad. 03:08:15 :) 03:08:39 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 03:09:28 When I wrote my first HTML page I didn't even know that HTML has versions. 03:09:47 I used the netscape composer :-) 03:10:03 cooldude` [n=user@adsl-232-65-104.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:56 i went to the private website of Tim Berners Lee, because I wanted to be sure I was learning something that was worth my time, and had to learn more about its creator 03:11:13 I don't remember what I used. It might have been pico. 03:11:22 ayrnieu [n=julianfo@126.sub-70-216-232.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:26 z0d: old skool :-) 03:12:29 Well, it was around '96-97. 03:12:52 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13:19 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:07 hehe 03:15:10 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:15:32 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:16:42 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:16:50 -!- cooldude127 [n=user@adsl-232-65-104.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:19:12 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has left #lisp 03:21:13 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:28 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:12 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 03:25:48 ecret [n=ecret@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:50 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:26:15 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-81.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:29:25 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 03:31:37 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:32:07 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.223.189] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:36:38 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 03:38:23 jlpeters [n=james@205.sub-70-193-126.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:33 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp154-85.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:41:49 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-157.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 03:43:36 nite 03:43:37 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-32-127.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 03:44:56 fy-co [i=fyco@gateway/tor/x-45ff3da72962667a] has joined #lisp 03:47:11 drafael [n=drafael@ip-118-90-132-218.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:52:57 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:54:27 anyone here know how eql-specializers work? 03:54:40 as in, under the hood. What kind of reference do they keep? 03:54:50 sykopomp: huh? A reference to the pointer. 03:55:24 (or boxed object which we'll pretend is a pointer for now) 03:56:15 huh? How do you do a reference to the pointer? (and do eql-specializers use weak-pointers to make sure GC happens?) 03:56:55 sykopomp: ah, that's what you meant. I think the MOP requires a strong reference due to the interface. 03:57:24 I see, so things that are eql-specialized never get GC'd. Thanks :) 03:57:36 yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has joined #lisp 03:58:58 but that could probably be considered a bug/oversight in the AMOP. 03:59:42 but the Spec doesn't explicitly require weak references, does it? 04:00:16 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.176.205] has joined #lisp 04:01:11 sykopomp: I don't think the ANSI spec ever mentions the concept of weak references (or garbage collection, for that matter). 04:01:44 huh. That's strange. 04:02:03 CL doesn't require a garbage collector, per se. 04:02:57 Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslb-082-083-066-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:31 yet it doesn't require a way to manually manage memory. 04:03:36 Truly magical. 04:03:38 haha 04:03:44 -!- Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslb-082-083-066-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:03:58 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.176.205] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:04:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/73849 04:04:18 you can allocate and reclaim by turning your implementation off 04:04:33 that's how early lisp machines were used 04:04:37 anyone have any idea why I get that error? 04:04:59 felideon: some bug in elephant. 04:05:07 lovely 04:06:02 felideon: it would probably be nicer too if you tried out each of those elephant functions individually 04:06:30 sykopomp: let me try that 04:06:31 you could probably find where the call to sb-sys:alien is by doing some M-. fun times. 04:06:56 but yeah, seems like a bug in elephant 04:06:58 what does M-. do? 04:07:08 are you using SLIME? 04:07:38 try putting your cursor on a function and doing M-. (if you are). It takes you to the definition. 04:07:41 beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-131-120.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:07:47 Good morning. 04:07:47 mornin' beach 04:07:49 darn 04:08:05 sykopomp: ah 04:08:25 What's the correct syntax for converting a list to a vector (unsigned-byte 8)? 04:08:41 coerce? 04:08:50 drafael: () 04:09:24 I'll look up coerce, thanks 04:09:30 (coerce '(1 2 3) '(vector (unsigned-byte 8))) 04:09:43 ah, awesome 04:10:11 I couldn't remember the exact (vector (... .)), I was using concatenate before but forgot the syntax 04:11:10 drafael: it is very strange to call that "syntax". It would be more like a type specifier. 04:12:20 Oh, I see 04:12:26 -!- cooldude` [n=user@adsl-232-65-104.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:14:32 sykopomp: yeah i get the same error when calling either function. http://paste.lisp.org/display/73849#1 04:16:49 what's sb-sys:int-sap? 04:17:18 sykopomp: a way to ``print'' system-area-pointers. 04:17:28 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:18:20 hrm 04:19:31 does clbuild download/intall packages from stable branches or dev branches? 04:20:01 dev branches 04:21:20 -!- roygbiv [n=blank@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [] 04:24:13 aumontabe [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 04:26:10 -!- eaumontab [n=abeaumon@97.pool85-49-127.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:26:23 me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has joined #lisp 04:28:19 so ./clbuild install package always gets the latest version? 04:28:59 felideon: It checks out the latest version from a repository 04:29:12 AFAIR you can update a library with clbuild update 04:29:56 cool 04:29:58 thx 04:30:40 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:43:46 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.9] has joined #lisp 04:45:18 aundro_ [n=aundro@106.159-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 04:46:50 -!- aundro__ [n=aundro@215.159-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:53:59 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:59:11 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:00:22 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:05:05 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-070ed31913cab5da] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:05:56 holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-84771f85738c7ab5] has joined #lisp 05:06:21 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:07:55 Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 05:09:55 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1CE4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:12:23 Reaver_11 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 05:18:28 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:19:10 doesnt ~/.slime get regenerated if i delete it? 05:19:42 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1C5D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:14 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:22:01 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177155046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:27:30 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:29:49 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:35:20 -!- tessier__ [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has quit ["leaving"] 05:36:20 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-157.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 05:36:53 -!- Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:45:58 felideon: I don't have one, having used slime a bit 05:46:26 hmm 05:47:56 -!- |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:53:24 yes, it will be created 05:54:52 -!- s0ber [n=s0ber@220-136-228-17.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["leaving"] 05:56:52 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.127] has joined #lisp 06:03:15 i get a file does not exist though 06:03:25 it's looking for a .fasl 06:05:15 how do i make it so it doesnt need to look for that? i think it's giving methat error because I transfer my .emacs.d folder (where slime is located) between two PCs 06:06:10 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:00 I have the definitions for my class in a file by itself, moved the corresponding defpackage to a different packages.lisp file. I now have load.lisp file that compiles this packages.lisp file first, then my definition file. All this seems to work file for the repl. But when I try to compile an asdf call (to load weblocks) and have a call to this defined class in there, it fails complaining that the class is not found anywhere. 06:10:46 aravind pasted "definitions" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73852 06:12:06 I guess my question is how do I tell the code in weblocks (or hutchentoot) about the packages/classes I have defined. 06:12:38 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:13:26 -!- yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:13:42 yoonkn [n=yoonkn@210.108.170.71] has joined #lisp 06:15:11 use asdf 06:15:12 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.9] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:15:28 hansel [n=user@cpe-66-65-25-217.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:15:32 http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html here are some tips 06:15:34 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 06:15:41 stassats`: okay. 06:16:29 stassats`: hmm now i'm getting the same error on my main PC when I updated SBCL to 1.0.24 06:17:10 what is the name of fasl it is looking for? 06:17:19 swank-sbcl.fasl 06:18:43 there may be errors in compiling that file, look at *inferior-lisp* 06:19:10 yes that's the case 06:19:21 oh, so it cant load the fasl, because the compilation failed 06:19:50 and what error does it show? 06:20:06 Symbol "DEBUG-SOURCE-FROM" not found in the SB-DI package.; compilation aborted after 0:00:01 06:20:27 try to update slime too 06:20:36 oh ok that's probably it 06:20:41 can you install/update slime with clbuild? 06:21:02 yeah, i think 06:21:41 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:24:08 -!- brianj_otter [n=brianj@wsip-24-234-224-152.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [] 06:27:27 jdot [n=jdot@cpe-70-112-0-222.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:29:12 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:29:33 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:30:15 stassats`: thanks...that seemed to work. 06:30:42 stassats`: i get a Version mismatch, so I have to type yes to continue 06:30:42 hello all 06:30:54 stassats`: not sure why if i deleted .slime again 06:31:16 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:40 felideon: maybe because you haven't restarted emacs? 06:34:00 i havent :) 06:34:26 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:36:34 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:11 that's weird. now when I start SLIME I don't get a CL-USER REPL. now it's just like plain ol' SBCL 06:37:35 add (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) to .emacs 06:38:09 or change existing slime-setup 06:38:57 beautiful, thanks. 06:39:02 is that new? 06:39:05 before it was just slime-setup 06:39:45 slime-fancy is old, but omission of the repl from default configuration is quite new 06:39:54 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:39:59 -!- aumontabe is now known as abeaumont 06:40:28 -!- aravind [n=aravind@c-98-234-108-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:40:51 gotcha 06:40:56 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 06:43:44 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-9-125.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:43:53 hmm, what's the easiest way to recompile all CL packages? 06:45:03 look at ./clbuild --long-help 06:45:17 for something like 'recompile' 06:46:48 netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:14 'recompile --all-projects' i thing 06:47:18 k 06:47:23 HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has joined #lisp 06:48:36 ah, thx, didnt know about the --long-help option. 06:48:49 yeah there's --all-rojects and -installed 06:49:30 adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has joined #lisp 06:50:09 good morning to all 06:51:45 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.227.105] has joined #lisp 06:53:37 rares [n=rares@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:17 freesign [n=ghang@116.233.227.208] has joined #lisp 06:54:22 -!- rares is now known as dihymo 06:57:07 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:57:12 Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 06:57:19 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable092.61-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 07:00:59 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:01:23 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-131-120.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:59 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:02:08 stassats`: seems like i have to delete all the .fasl files for clbuild recompile to work 07:02:32 don't know, i don't use clbuild actually 07:03:34 package.fasl actually 07:03:44 you just use ASDF-INSTALL? 07:04:54 no, i have my own package downloader and updater 07:05:20 nice 07:10:37 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 07:10:40 -!- hansel [n=user@cpe-66-65-25-217.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:11:01 -!- jlpeters [n=james@205.sub-70-193-126.myvzw.com] has quit [] 07:13:36 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:14:18 -!- Reaver_11 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:16:54 Absent [n=administ@62.64.106.136] has joined #lisp 07:17:33 -!- Absent [n=administ@62.64.106.136] has left #lisp 07:18:36 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:21:55 <_8david> "clbuild clean " clears fasls 07:22:20 <_8david> (admittedly, that only looks for fasls in clbuild/source//... and doesn't know about ~/.slime/) 07:22:25 damn, 5 min too late 07:23:07 I did a: find . -name "*.fasl" -exec rm -rf {} \; 07:23:16 which seemed to work 07:24:17 <_8david> "clbuild recompile" is just an (asdf:operate ... 'asdf:load-op) on each .asd file of the project. I'm tempted to rename it to "clbuild load-op", but I'm not sure how many people there are who use it anyway. 07:24:51 ah 07:24:52 :) 07:26:46 kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:27:37 Kathrin-25^away- [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 07:28:10 huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 07:28:22 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0F681.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:51 hello lispers 07:29:10 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 07:30:03 -!- fy-co [i=fyco@gateway/tor/x-45ff3da72962667a] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:30:36 kiuma: hello 07:31:09 I some occasions I need to thet readers and writers definitions of some classes are defined in a different way than the default one (I need to call cms-slot-value instead of slot-value). 07:31:40 Hey 07:32:09 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:33:14 I give up on Elephant 07:33:20 The AMOP defines slot readers and writers in the metaclass "initialize-instance :after" should I create an around method for the metaclass initialize-instance, or shoud I extend my own compute-effective-slot-definition 07:33:28 oh well, nite all 07:33:30 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:33:43 ? 07:38:03 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:56 -!- HG` [n=wells@118.82.169.165] has quit [Client Quit] 07:41:37 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:50 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 07:45:00 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:45:37 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:46:21 jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 07:46:30 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:47:26 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has joined #lisp 07:48:29 hello 07:51:17 hi fe[nl]ix 07:51:24 hi kiuma 07:52:33 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 07:52:37 Good morning. 07:52:39 fe[nl]ix, The AMOP defines slot readers and writers in the metaclass "initialize-instance :after" should I create an around method for the metaclass initialize-instance, or shoud I extend my own compute-effective-slot-definition The AMOP defines slot readers and writers in the metaclass "initialize-instance :after" should I create an around method for the metaclass initialize-instance, or shoud I extend my own compute-effective-slot-definition 07:53:02 hello spiaggia 07:53:05 kiuma: Are you going to repeat that question anytime anyone with a familiar nick joins the channel? 07:53:07 sorry cut & paste 07:53:52 Aankhen``, is there a way to show to new entry pasted comments in irc ? 07:54:11 Aankhen``, a sort of history 07:54:14 ? 07:54:18 minion: logs 07:54:18 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 07:54:20 minion: logs 07:54:23 syncope [n=chatzill@S01060014d144f3c3.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:23 Heh. 07:54:39 thanks and sorry 07:55:01 kiuma: How much have you read of AMOP? 07:55:27 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:46 here and there in the weekend, compatibly with my baby milk needs 07:55:47 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 07:56:25 I strongly recommend you finish reading it first, then ask your question again if you're really still not sure. 07:56:59 ok , sorry 08:05:09 -!- syncope [n=chatzill@S01060014d144f3c3.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 08:05:16 syncope [n=chatzill@S01060014d144f3c3.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:32 -!- syncope [n=chatzill@S01060014d144f3c3.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 08:06:41 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:02 is anyone here using a lisp prevalence solution? 08:07:09 something like www.prevayler.org? 08:09:47 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:10:26 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 08:11:08 -!- blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 08:16:02 <_8david> minion: tell the_unmaker about bknr 08:16:04 the_unmaker: have a look at bknr: bknr is an object datastore, a template system, a web framework and support for images, blogs, billboards, etc. http://www.cliki.net/bknr 08:19:25 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable092.61-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 08:19:38 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:21:10 is there around a sample on how to use closer-mop:ensure-method ? 08:23:14 kiuma: you're doing it wrong. 08:24:30 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 08:24:54 hmmmmm bknr hmmmmm 08:24:56 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:25:52 -!- pierre__thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-20-82-64-59-162.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:26:38 the_unmaker: i'm here if you need help 08:27:02 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:06 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:30:19 H4ns, thanks for stopping me 08:30:20 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:22 pierre__thierry [i=pierre@lns-bzn-32-82-254-4-4.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:43 wow so bknr has its own data store? so if I learn it I can have my dynamic site without postgresql etc. 08:31:47 intereesting 08:32:09 is there some project to look at, that performs a task similar to mine ? (clsql doesn't seem to do the same) 08:32:40 the_unmaker: right. it does not depend on an external database, but it is only suitable for data sets that completely fit into main memory. 08:32:57 the_unmaker: it does have blobs, though, which are external and don't need to reside in memory. 08:33:12 ok 08:33:41 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:50 so fro a 4G content maangement system, with 3.8G of attachments, and 200m of 'data' it would work fine on a hp dl140 with 8G ram and 8xXeon2.33mhz cpu 08:34:05 the_unmaker: sure, no problem with that. 08:34:18 and it would be FAST? with say 200 users on it? 08:34:27 pierre_thierry [n=pierre@lns-bzn-54-82-251-80-246.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:49 how about upgrades a year from now? complicated? 08:34:52 or ez? 08:35:05 or moving it from one box to another for hardware problems if they appear? 08:35:52 the_unmaker: fast - it depends on how much processing your server side needs to do, but 200 users should be no problem on the machine you quoted, for average page creation/upload/download type stuff. 08:36:30 the_unmaker: upgrades are never "easy", but as your schema is in ram, upgrades are easier than with an external database. see my blog http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/ for a posting on that topic. 08:36:57 the_unmaker: moving between machines or lisp implementations is absolutely no problem, i do it frequently. the external file formats are portable. 08:37:41 <_8david> the_unmaker: It's really "just" a implementation of the prevalence idea. If you know what consequences that approach has, you know what the bknr store is like. (In terms of startup time, schema migration, scalability.) 08:37:46 the_unmaker: (except for random states, which are not portable between lisp implementations and thus can't be moved from one to another) 08:39:57 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:40:44 prevayler sound friggin awesome on a galactic scale 08:41:01 and I know lisp can do it better than java 08:41:17 i get scofed at by linux admin buddies for liking lis 08:41:18 lisp 08:41:27 Im like whatever d000d 08:41:30 <_8david> prevalence is a language-independent idea 08:41:38 I know 08:41:42 :) 08:41:43 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0F681.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:46:40 Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:52 -!- pierre__thierry [i=pierre@lns-bzn-32-82-254-4-4.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:52:24 p_l [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:52:42 HET2 [n=diman@chello212017088102.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:52:47 eevar2 [n=jalla@225.89-10-30.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:04 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@76.214.9.225] has joined #lisp 08:54:09 THe only thing that freaks me out si the varnish site that shows hwo squid is programmed in 1970 style and fights the os virtual memory 08:54:25 prevalence doesnt fight the os virtual memory does it? 08:58:53 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:00:37 Absent [n=administ@62.64.106.136] has joined #lisp 09:01:05 -!- Absent [n=administ@62.64.106.136] has left #lisp 09:07:27 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA709.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:09:37 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:09:56 H4ns: your post regarding clojure was interesteresting :) For your last comment on it, I wondered if you shouldn't be searching for a lispy prolog equivalent for lisp (for expressing the ideas) 09:10:16 uh, were you guys just talking to gavino or do my eyes deceive me? 09:10:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 09:11:20 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:21 lispm [n=joswig@e177145095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:11:24 <_8david> cmm: damn! 09:11:30 madnificent: yeah, that might be true. for some reason, i was never able to pick up prolog in the past, but i will propably again some time in the future. 09:13:17 the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:34 uh bknr d00d? 09:13:42 H4ns: FWIW, I currently believe a language should be as multi-paradigm as possible. For some ideas a functional programming style is the easiest, some things go easy in searching languages like prolog, and data description is OO's domain. Sadly, the only thing I know that tried to connect prolog and haskell (still lacking the OO bit), is an utter failure (not fun to work in) 09:16:14 poplog might be an interesting example. 09:16:42 I wana kick my co workers and boss in nuts 09:16:43 mad - what's the utter failure. Not mercury? Or Oz? 09:17:01 they put in phpmyadmin as our inventory db 09:17:10 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:10 when I think a text file would have been fine 09:17:14 ayrnieu: mercury. It was the least fun language I've ever worked in :) 09:17:21 out CMS and ticketing are crap from atlassian.com 09:17:27 call jira and confluence 09:17:36 mad: Have you looked at Qi? 09:17:58 mad - too bad, I'm loving it. It's much nicer to me than Haskell, for instance. 09:18:40 Zhivago: no, I'm probably not going to do it in the short run either. Limited amount of time, much fun stuff to do. I'll google it later to look at it :D 09:19:03 H4ns: apparantly, mercury can be nice, as ayrnieu has better experience :) 09:19:06 although you can see mercury_blog.livejournal.com for posts that represent maybe an hour each on average of deciphering an error message. 09:19:25 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:33 Qi uses a simple internal prolog implemented in lisp to do its sequent calculus type system. 09:20:54 arynieu: What are you using mercury to do? 09:20:56 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:33 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:21:34 my idea of mixing paradigms probably wouldn't be "put one paradigm into the type system and the other in runtime" 09:22:07 Zhivago: oh, if it's internal in lisp, and can be called and used in/from/through lisp, then I may run across it over time :) 09:22:17 but I'm probably too old to appreciate strongly-typed FP 09:22:18 if you guys want to make some dough, make a code review tool, that highlights newly checked in code 09:22:23 cmm: You misunderstand. 09:22:30 and links to a cms and a ticketing, and a hardware db 09:23:01 cmm: The type system paradigm is sequent calculus. Prolog happens to make representing it internally more simple. 09:23:13 earlier today, I used it to try and gather more prime numbers than I could possibly fit on my hard drive. That turned out to not be practical. Right now I'm just reading O'Caml For Computer Scientists and following it in Mercury. I don't know if I'll use it for anything productive. 09:23:32 Zhivago: I understand that. but type system is type system. compile-time only 09:23:41 Absent [n=administ@62.64.106.136] has joined #lisp 09:23:51 Um, no. 09:24:02 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:24:06 The type system applies whenever it's turned on. It operates at run-time as well. 09:24:35 -!- Absent [n=administ@62.64.106.136] has left #lisp 09:24:36 Zhivago: ah, ok 09:24:52 I want to learn lisp, since I kick butt at unix. 09:25:05 then I will wipe out all this garbage software all these crummy employers buy 09:25:13 and have my revenge 09:25:32 rsynnott: how are your wxWindows bindings coming along? 09:26:05 the_unmaker: so start... 09:26:10 the_unmaker: Please remember to take your medication. 09:26:30 the_unmaker: and only your medication 09:27:52 elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has joined #lisp 09:28:01 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:28:24 see how sane youd be if you had to upgrade www.atlassian.com products 10 releases 09:28:28 without root 09:28:44 unmaker, how is that going for you? 09:28:51 and then get told you have bad decision making and comm skills by a moron director 09:28:58 the learning lisp. 09:28:58 did it finally 09:29:03 taguht myself mysql 09:29:13 and discoverd 2 big bugs in confluence 09:29:23 that atlaqssian itself documented after i fixed 09:29:34 the_unmaker: get a new job, learn lisp, stop whining. in quick succession, any order. 09:29:36 learning lisp is stalled 09:29:45 why has it stalled? 09:30:06 the db part of pcl ch2 09:30:10 kinda threw 09:30:11 me 09:30:27 then someone mentioned I am not supposed t grok everyhing 09:30:33 of the code 09:30:39 the_unmaker: ah, and please: can you stop monopolizing the channel by breaking up your utterings into multiple half sentences? thank you so much. 09:30:50 ok i am goign tog et dinne rthank you 09:30:59 Remember your medication. 09:31:11 already had heinekens 09:31:36 -!- the_unmaker [n=g@cpe-76-174-28-249.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:41 fuck it, someone ban gavino already 09:32:09 cmm: is that his real name? 09:32:11 Ah, that would explain a lot. 09:32:35 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:32:50 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-8-119.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:33:00 good morning. 09:33:11 trebor_dki: good morning! 09:35:12 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:35:14 How can I open image file in cl? When I tried it with with-open-file function, I get an error like "decoding error on stream". 09:35:29 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:35:58 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:37:20 tomoyuki28jp: you need to specifiy a suitable :element-type, e.g. '(unsigned-byte 8) 09:38:57 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.127.12] has joined #lisp 09:39:03 H4ns: I see. Is there any good way to know what element-type I should use depending on the file type? Or it varies? 09:39:55 You probably want (unsigned-byte 8) 09:40:10 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA709.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 09:40:13 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA709.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:32 loz [n=loz@041.c.002.gsf.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:41:30 Zhivago: thanks, I will try that out in few file types. 09:42:21 tomoyuki28jp: you'll be able to read any file out of contemporary file systems using (unsigned-byte 8) as element type. it is up to your program to interpret the meaning of the octets that you read from the file. 09:45:11 H4ns: I see. Thanks for the info. 09:46:03 I am trying to display image via http server. How can I display image? Do I need to use a external package? I get error when I try to do this way. http://paste.lisp.org/display/73855 09:46:29 tomoyuki28jp: you cannot read a binary file line by line. 09:46:56 tomoyuki28jp: if you are using hunchentoot, why don't you use a static file handler/dispatcher? 09:47:11 H4ns: I am using my own http server. 09:47:33 heyman [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-8a7eb3e4726ded1f] has joined #lisp 09:48:08 tomoyuki28jp: you need to read up on handling binary data in lisp. 09:49:00 tomoyuki28jp: you'll also need to know something about how streams handle binary. you can't simply open a stream with element type character and then expect to be able to put arbitary binary data to that stream. 09:49:30 H4ns: uhm, I see. Could you give me some hint how I can do it? Any source or resource is fine. 09:49:41 I see. 09:49:48 tomoyuki28jp: i bet that pcl has information 09:49:58 minion: tell tomoyuki28jp about flexi-streams 09:50:00 tomoyuki28jp: direct your attention towards flexi-streams: FLEXI-STREAMS is a library which implements "virtual" bivalent streams that can be layered atop real binary/bivalent streams. http://www.cliki.net/flexi-streams 09:50:27 H4ns: Thanks a lot. I will take a look at it. 09:50:38 pcl for binary io: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/files-and-file-io.html 09:51:07 tomoyuki28jp: i can give a short example of reading bmp-format, but you have to bear in mind that i am novice, too. 09:51:38 Mannerisky: trebor_dki: thanks! 09:52:26 <_8david> trebor_dki: I think he only wants to send the file over HTTP, not actually parse it. So flexi-streams is probably the answer to his question. 09:52:53 _8david: Yes, exactly. 09:54:49 tomoyuki28jp: oh, then ignore my paste, plaeas. 09:55:25 trebor_dki: Sorry to make you confuse and thanks a lot for your kindness. I appreciate it :) 09:56:02 btw - why didn't paste.lisp.org send the paste-message? 09:56:07 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:57:26 (: oh it went to #lisps :) 09:57:29 <_8david> trebor_dki: no channel selected? try paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 09:57:35 <_8david> oh, nv 09:59:19 -!- Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 10:00:58 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:01:59 -!- holycow [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-84771f85738c7ab5] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:05:43 besiria [n=user@webspirs.uom.gr] has joined #lisp 10:06:41 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:08:28 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:53 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:11:24 brb 10:11:37 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-8-119.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:15:01 yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has joined #lisp 10:22:03 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-685d7a14968cd7e4] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:22:19 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello212017088102.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:22:28 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 10:23:56 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-9293396a9cc3fe7b] has joined #lisp 10:26:25 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Client Quit] 10:27:38 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:28:10 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 10:29:03 aerique: largely deprioritised in favour of work, for the moment, Ím afraid 10:29:38 (and it may be effectively obsolete already due to the whole Qt-with-non-mad-license thing 10:31:51 rsynnott: ah, the c++ api problem with qt has been solved? 10:32:03 :D 10:32:08 HET2 [n=diman@chello212017088102.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:32:12 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello212017088102.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:33:25 H4ns: no more than the C++ api problem for wxwindows has 10:33:37 (there are C bindings for both) 10:33:55 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:36:25 What's the easiest way of converting ((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (etc)) to (1 2 3 4 5 6 etc)? 10:36:53 drafael: ALEXANDRIA:FLATTEN 10:36:57 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.127.12] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:39:24 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 10:40:00 H4ns: Thanks :-) 10:41:50 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.127.12] has joined #lisp 10:42:20 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@76.214.9.225] has quit [] 10:43:44 -!- dihymo [n=rares@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:44:05 rares [n=rares@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:12 -!- Kathrin-25^away- [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:44:23 mornfall_ [n=mornfall@anxur.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 10:44:35 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:44:43 -!- mornfall_ is now known as morn|anx 10:45:13 drafael: How about this one? (apply #'append '((1 2 3) (4 5 6) (etc))) 10:45:22 -!- rares [n=rares@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:45:37 dihymo [n=dihymo@97-124-35-80.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:28 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:46:28 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 10:47:13 tomoyuki28jp: Even better! 10:47:27 drafael: :) 10:49:24 tomoyuki28jp: You wouldn't happen to use SBCL, would you? 10:49:44 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 drafael: I use SBCL. 10:50:19 Do you know anything about making EUC-JP encoding work nicely with it when fetching webpages etc? 10:50:36 I've been struggling with it for.. A long time now :< 10:50:46 drafael: Are you a Japanese? 10:51:04 The-Kenny [n=moritz@p5087C3E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:34 tomoyuki28jp: No, but I speak a little and am attempting to write a japanese language learning tool 10:52:15 loz- [n=loz@172.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:55:27 drafael: I see. Why do you want to use euc-jp and not utf-8? 10:56:15 tomoyuki28jp: Because blogs.yahoo.co.jp uses euc-jp, as do asahi and a few other news sites 10:56:24 I see 10:57:06 drafael: I am not familiar with encoding stuff, but I just found out some information on the web. (in Japanese) SBCL use extended-char type for Japanese, so if you want to write portable code, you better use character type. (the info on the web says so.) 10:57:18 drafael: http://lispuser.net/memo/lisp/2007-08-07-22-49.html 10:59:45 -!- loz [n=loz@041.c.002.gsf.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:00:05 Thank you very much :) I'll look through that, hopefully it'll help! 11:00:35 drafael: good luck! 11:01:06 -!- loz- [n=loz@172.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 11:01:07 -!- besiria [n=user@webspirs.uom.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:01:10 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-103-68.customers.d1-online.com] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 11:07:45 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 11:10:32 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has left #lisp 11:10:46 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 masm [n=user@a83-132-153-17.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 11:15:06 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[away] 11:17:11 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:20:54 I'd start by translating euc-jp to utf-8. 11:26:56 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:27:16 Can anyone teach me how I can read binary data from a image file and write the binary data to http stream with flexi-streams? I am struggling to do that. 11:28:09 tomoyuki28jp: is your http stream a character stream? 11:29:18 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@76.214.9.225] has joined #lisp 11:29:32 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:30:06 H4ns: I use bordeaux-threads. http://paste.lisp.org/display/73858 11:30:36 H4ns: I actually use usocket. 11:30:40 sorry I got confused 11:30:56 yes. you are/ 11:31:26 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@76.214.9.225] has quit [Client Quit] 11:32:47 tomoyuki28jp: you need to learn what a "character stream" and a "binary stream" is, and how they can't be exchanged for one another. the pcl chapter that was pointed to earlier contains a few very helpful notes regarding that. 11:33:33 tomoyuki28jp: then, once you have learned that and maybe experimented with the concepts outside of your webserver, turn to flexi-streams to learn how that can solve your problem. 11:34:29 kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 11:34:34 -!- freesign [n=ghang@116.233.227.208] has left #lisp 11:34:45 hello 11:34:47 H4ns: Thanks for your advice. I will do that. 11:36:18 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 11:36:24 kami-: hello! 11:36:54 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:37:06 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:37:29 -!- drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:38:19 ruepel0r [n=rue@p4FCE1661.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:25 hello 11:38:42 ruepel0r: hello! 11:38:44 what's the easiest way to fill a list n times with nil? 11:39:11 ruepel0r: "fill a list" meaning overwriting an existing list or creating a fresh list? 11:39:17 creating a fresh list 11:39:29 clhs make-list 11:39:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_lis.htm 11:39:33 ruepel0r: ^ 11:39:42 very good 11:40:01 I thought there is certainly a predefined function for it 11:43:24 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:43:29 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:45:56 Anyone using Emacs from CVS? 11:46:53 font-lock for lisp-mode is a little strange... everything is a variable and so is set in a golden color. 11:49:02 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:54:49 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:14 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-44-226.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:58:25 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:59:16 hello fellow lispers! 11:59:47 I want to create graphs/visualizations from data..what good libraries are available in Common Lisp 12:00:04 would cl-vecto do? 12:00:34 Zhivago: The EUC-JP has invalid characters in it, I would love for it to be that simple :< 12:00:45 adityo: vecto is a fine library. not knowing your requirements, it is hard whether it "would do" 12:01:41 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 12:01:48 H4ns: thanks..i simply want to create pie charts/bar graphs 12:02:54 H4ns: those movie charts by xach are very cool 12:03:40 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 12:03:56 -!- morn|anx [n=mornfall@anxur.fi.muni.cz] has quit ["anna is back to life"] 12:06:44 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:06:56 what is the easiest way to replace columns and rows in a matrix that is represented in a list, e.g. ((a_00 a_01) (b_10 b_11)) 12:07:17 rsynnott: ah, too bad 12:07:30 i try a recursive function, but there is a strange error i don't understand 12:07:41 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:27 ruepel0r: try to understand the error. representing matricen as lists of lists is not generally efficient, and there are no standard functions for list-based matrix manipulation in cl. 12:09:08 H4ns, efficiency is not important, i am practising for an exam 12:09:31 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:09:37 ruepel0r: right. that is another good reason to read up on lisp and learn rather than asking us to do your homework. 12:10:12 i don't want you to do my homework, I just thought, perhaps you have any good ideas :) 12:10:47 ruepel0r: "i don't understand the error message" is not a good way of expressing "i tried very hard myself but could not get it to work". 12:11:22 you're right 12:12:01 blx [i=krille@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:06 -!- blx [i=krille@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 12:12:37 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-9-125.w90-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:14:09 blx [i=krille@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:16:15 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/314939 <- Any ideas as to the best workaround for this bug? 12:17:49 didn't a workaround get posted to the mailing list? 12:17:59 read bytes in, and use octets-to-string? 12:20:15 Really? I'm subscribed, and I didn't get it 12:20:20 I'll have a look through the archives 12:21:02 wait, which one? 12:21:37 Xof: Which mailing list was it? 12:24:17 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 12:26:04 Kathrin-25^away- [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 12:28:42 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["leaving"] 12:28:51 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 12:30:40 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:32:23 c|mell [n=cmell@p1187-ipbf3401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:33:48 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 12:35:40 -!- blx [i=krille@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:37:05 ruepel0r: in any case, you can take the first element of each list, build a list of that. recurse and cons those lists together. 12:39:19 -!- rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120121]"] 12:40:02 If efficiency is not important, you could just represent it as a list of value-coordinate tuples. :) 12:40:36 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:43:58 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-58-24.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:01 cky [n=cky@203-211-110-70.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:44:56 hi is there another way to add values to a hash-table instead of using (setf (gethash .-.. )) ? 12:46:26 lisp to real-world: http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/monster-fraes.jpg 12:46:28 :} :} :} 12:46:34 bakkdoor: You can implement infinitely many alternatives using macros. For some more related information, see hash-table dictionary in CLHS. 12:46:52 manuel_: woo-hoo 12:46:56 http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/gcode/ 12:46:59 there's stuff in there 12:47:01 you don't want to see 12:47:11 *manuel_* points to http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/gcode/offset.lisp 12:47:28 -!- drwhen [n=drwho@209-112-181-104.static.acsalaska.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:48:52 madnificent, that's what I did, my error was a wrong use of setf. but I also found a very short solution "(apply 'mapcar 'list matrix)" 12:48:56 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:49:06 drafael: not sure 12:51:15 is there a way to get a more useful debugger and backtrace in sbcl/macosx? 12:51:17 with slime 12:51:23 it kinda skips all the interesting stuff 12:52:18 Xof: I can't find it so far unfortunately :( But I'll keep looking.. Do you remember how recent it was? 12:52:44 I thought it was in response to the original report 12:53:22 hm, ideally the bugs in launchpad would refer to the e-mail report 12:56:23 @Xof: I was the one that reported it, and I did it directly on launchpad 12:56:34 err 12:56:37 -@ :P 12:57:13 hey, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and presuming you were using microblogging syntax ;) 12:57:41 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["leaving"] 12:57:49 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 12:59:25 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p1187-ipbf3401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:59:36 c|mell [n=cmell@p1187-ipbf3401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:01:25 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:02:18 drafael: ah. Well, someone else probably reported something similar fairly recently 13:02:21 that's why I have it in my brain 13:02:32 grep the sbcl-devel / sbcl-help archives for string-to-octets 13:04:20 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:48 Okay, will do 13:05:47 erm, octets-to-string 13:05:50 sorry 13:05:58 or use-value, come to that 13:06:13 oh, wait, your problem is actually with octets-to-string 13:06:14 dammit 13:06:21 sorry, you can usefully ignore everything I've said 13:06:22 is there something like ",@" but without the ",", I mean e.g. to remove the outer brackets of a list with sublists without using "`" and "," 13:06:38 ruepel0r: no, because lists don't have brackets 13:07:00 try to articulate what is happening to the data 13:07:04 ehm, sorry for net being english, i meant braces 13:07:16 ruepel0r: "parentheses" 13:07:38 ok 13:07:50 <_8david> hmm, so new launchpad bugs don't get cc:ed to sbcl-devel? 13:09:37 I want for example write "(apply 'mapcar 'list matrix)" with "funcall" instead of "apply" 13:10:01 ruepel0r: why? 13:10:51 I just wanted to give an example for my question what I meant. there is no special sense for writing it like that, i am just interested if it is possible 13:12:23 ruepel0r: , and ,@ operate at read time, whereas function application happens at run time. once your function has been read (and, most likely, compiled), there are no parentheses that could be removed. 13:13:46 ruepel0r: it is basically what Xof said. You need to see what you want to express, then modify the data that you've received. You can for instance translate '(foo bar (baz bonzo)) to (concatenate 'list '(foo bar) '(baz bonzo)), but you need to see on a per-case basis what you really want to say :) 13:14:43 -!- me-so-stupid [n=hooyambo@77.236.84.166] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:14:47 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:15:58 I will try 13:17:28 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:17:35 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 13:18:08 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:12 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:35 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 13:19:11 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:20:12 yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:22:32 Xof: I think I've found the thread you're referring to, unfortunately a different thing, just sounds similar 13:22:38 Thanks anyway :) 13:22:48 2:25am time to go to sleep I think 13:23:32 cracki [n=cracki@47-080.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:28:03 -!- ruepel0r [n=rue@p4FCE1661.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:28:48 beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-131-147.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:29:46 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:43 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-58-24.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:30:55 Cronos [n=a@5ad1b2b0.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:53 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@p1187-ipbf3401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:19 -!- drafael [n=drafael@ip-118-90-132-218.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"] 13:36:49 loscar [n=carlhame@AMontsouris-157-1-34-90.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:40:38 s0ber [n=s0ber@118-168-238-134.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:43 H4ns: Did you have time to check my mail about hunchentoot and flexi-stream's bound invalidation condition handling? 13:42:13 vy: if i understand your question right, you are unsure where to put the signal handler? 13:42:47 uuh, the correctness police is approaching! i meant the "condition handler" :) 13:43:29 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["leaving"] 13:43:38 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 13:45:30 -!- beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-44-226.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:49 -!- yhara [n=yhara@7.193.12.221.megaegg.ne.jp] has left #lisp 13:48:10 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:13 vy: i'm looking at the source now, let me know if you want to discuss. 13:51:07 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-245.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:56:21 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:56:56 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:00:20 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 14:03:27 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:31 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:38 binarin` [n=user@gwn.alt1.ru] has joined #lisp 14:04:24 -!- Cronos [n=a@5ad1b2b0.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 14:05:04 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:05:25 -!- spec[away] is now known as mrSpec 14:06:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@47-080.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:06:41 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:50 mega1 [n=mega@53d826a6.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:13:50 loscar_ [n=carlhame@AMontsouris-157-1-34-90.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:16:30 dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:57 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:17:12 -!- loscar_ [n=carlhame@AMontsouris-157-1-34-90.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 14:18:41 LostMonarch [n=roby@82.49.206.234] has joined #lisp 14:19:52 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:20:17 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 14:20:20 -!- loscar [n=carlhame@AMontsouris-157-1-34-90.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:20:27 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:03 -!- binarin [n=user@gwn.alt1.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:22:18 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 14:23:20 H4ns: Oops! Sorry for the delay. Right now, one of our qemu servers went down while trying to setup IBM System Director. I'll back in 10 minutes. 14:23:23 ZabaQ [n=jconnors@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:23:35 fun 14:24:18 (test-image) 14:24:21 oops 14:25:19 The function TEST-IMAGE is undefined 14:25:34 this is the snag with having your repl and irc channel in the same frame. 14:28:13 could be worse; could be your irc client and gtalk client 14:28:31 *rsynnott* has accidentally sent vaguely-confidential stuff to irc in the past 14:28:34 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:28:43 loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 14:29:13 folks, where do I put in modules to be loaded on startup in centos? 14:29:20 huh? 14:29:25 modules? 14:29:29 oh 14:29:33 sorry, wrong channel 14:33:24 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:16 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:51 -!- blitz__ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:35:07 mm. how to make a freshly created array contain zeros instead of nil? 14:35:24 in fact, if you give it a numeric :element-type shouldn't it contain zeros anyway? 14:35:34 initial-element 14:35:39 (keyword parameter) 14:37:28 -!- adityo [n=adityo@202.87.51.241] has quit ["leaving"] 14:38:43 demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig108.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:52 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 14:39:19 hugopt [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 14:39:28 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 14:39:39 -!- hugopt is now known as hugo 14:43:58 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb494b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:11 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:52:56 Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-246351.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:53:42 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:55:03 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:55:14 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:30 this appeared in reddit, in case somebody here does not read it: http://briancarper.net/2009/01/19/clojure-1-common-lisp-0/ 14:58:39 I would bet that a lot of people here don't read reddit (: 14:59:21 yes, just after writing that I figured I'd like like an idiot by assuming everyone does :] 14:59:29 *look like 15:00:03 *cmm* thinks that Clojure would enjoy about the same amount of buzz even if it weren't any good 15:00:27 because it's a non-CL non-Scheme lisp that runs on the JVM 15:01:31 the misguided popularity karma is liable to get it sooner or later, which is a shame 15:01:34 Seems his major problem was getting SBCL to run. 15:02:04 ksergio [n=sgarcia@mail.nuecho.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:14 Anyone on windows is going to have a major problem getting SBCL to run. 15:03:46 ZabaQ, this was most probably a linux server, he talks about "my server's vps" 15:04:31 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:04:32 those are a problem too 15:05:40 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:06:16 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:45 I think the first comment about his inexperience hits the nail on its head. I run into that to now and then when trying out something new. Takes me days to figure out something, while someone who'se been through it before doesn't even notice the problem. 15:07:59 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:21 It's a shame I haven't been able to find PCL in bookstores. I know it's sold at Amazon, but everytime I'm at the bookstore, I look for a copy of PCL, and they never have one. (they actually never have *any* lisp books) 15:09:02 I've never seen a lisp book in bookstores, here in Greece. They hardly understand what I am saying,when I ask the sellers. 15:09:29 I don't think I've ever seen a lisp book in any bookstore, and I've been in quite a few bookstores in quite a few countries :) 15:09:35 bookstores aren't what they used to be 15:10:03 En-Cu-Kou [n=petr@ip-89-102-32-253.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 15:10:04 -!- En-Cu-Kou [n=petr@ip-89-102-32-253.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:10:08 *aerique* did actually buy PCL from a local bookstore a few years ago (and didn't even have to order it) 15:10:14 En-Cu-Kou [n=petr@ip-89-102-32-253.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 15:10:15 -!- En-Cu-Kou [n=petr@ip-89-102-32-253.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:11:01 Grilinctus [n=Aankhen@122.162.224.245] has joined #lisp 15:11:13 I am saddened by what bookstores are becoming/have become. :< 15:11:14 aerique, anyway, it might be true that it's normal that he found stuff easier the second time around he was doing a web app, but calling him names because he prefers clojure to sbcl is silly IMHO 15:11:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:11:50 xan: yeah, some comments on that site make me cringe 15:12:01 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:05 -!- p_l [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:12:27 Quadrescence: you don't drink coffee? 15:12:50 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.227.105] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:13:08 xan: This guy seems to be highly unexperienced. 15:13:53 if you can write a web app in clojure in a day you are pretty good on my book 15:14:00 "Ignoring that there are two representations of time to choose from (universal vs. internal), the important thing to note is that neither is easily used for anything." 15:14:20 ah, you mean unexperienced in common lisp 15:14:41 the 11th comment is pretty good 15:15:05 Well, a lot of things he whines about can be remedied by RTFM. 15:15:32 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 En-Cu-Kou [n=petr@ip-89-102-32-253.karneval.cz] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 -!- En-Cu-Kou [n=petr@ip-89-102-32-253.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:16:28 z0d, reminds me of the "Someone is WRONG on the internet" xkcd strip 15:18:07 memory mapping issues? On linux sbcl? 15:18:35 also, crappy hash-table support? eh? 15:18:39 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has left #lisp 15:18:54 yeah, the crappy hash table support thing was weird 15:19:25 the vps problem is real. several vps implementations do not like how lisp runtimes allocate large portions of the address space 15:19:27 rsynnott: afaik there were some problems with xen and / or 64-bits architectures in the past 15:20:11 *rsynnott* notes that the examples are specifically chosen to be the things which are REALLY HORRIBLE in CL 15:20:17 -!- Kathrin-25^away- [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:20:34 and to anyone but a die-hard lisp lover, (setf (gethash bla blub) "foo") looks utterly bizarre when compared to what modern languages provide in their surface syntax. 15:20:35 *Quadrescence* just read http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/18cc7a823112559c/e86335fb4cc6c367 15:20:44 oh please. 15:21:26 yay, I'm a die-hard lisp lover 15:21:34 oh look, a zombie thread out to eat some brains! 15:22:04 oh, I seee 15:22:15 granted, the hash access stuff is ugly 15:22:55 i can't even remember if the key or the hash table comes first. sorry, lisp. 15:22:56 :) 15:23:01 I must be a die-hard lisp lover, then 15:23:22 then again, I don't think I've ever exposed my hash tables 15:23:49 I also use ORF a lot :) 15:24:23 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:25:28 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:12 Quadrescence, lauging at that post's first point, where he basically says "I don't have the time to explore this central idea in my exposition, just take my word on it based on my personal experience" 15:26:37 xan: Hehehe 15:28:47 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:10 H4ns: so just make a macro to make it work the way you want, with whatever syntax you want? 15:29:37 lucca: sure. #define BEGIN { 15:30:03 (defmacro ...), not define 15:30:05 :D don't get me wrong, i love lisp. 15:30:09 lucca: no, really? 15:30:25 sorry, I can only judge by what I've seen you say 15:31:09 well, guys, if you paste links to random rants about lisp to this channel and then get mad about it, you don't deserve anything but irony. 15:31:47 Mkay whatever 15:33:11 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 15:33:53 *rsynnott* doesn't like macros which exist for the purpose of randomly changing syntax, generall 15:33:57 y 15:34:45 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-118.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:35:42 I really don't know much about the lisp community outside of this channel, but, how would, say comp.lang.lisp, take an announcement of another lisp dialect? 15:36:07 depends 15:36:08 About as well as the vi channel would take an announcement of an emacs release ;-) 15:36:16 clojure was treated pretty well there 15:36:35 NewLISP was (deservedly, imo) pilloried 15:36:49 rsynnott: that's the one I was thinking of. 15:37:08 rsynnott: Hah, I'm reading about newLISP right now. 15:37:55 p_l [n=plasek@pp82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:39:45 -!- Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-246351.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:41:23 Why are lispers declined to use 80-char-width coding convention? In almost every .lisp file I check, I see ugly emacs wraparounds. 15:41:51 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:08 <_8david> vy: perhaps you're checking the wrong .lisp files 15:42:16 "prog2 evaluates first-form, then second-form, and then forms, yielding as its only value the primary value yielded by first-form." uh... that errata is known in clhs right? 15:42:18 vy: i like to use long identifiers and i have a wide screen. 15:43:16 H4ns: I have a wide screen too, but I like to use that width advantage to display more buffers. 15:43:54 vy: get a wider screen. but seriously, 80 characters are just not enough. 15:44:21 *_3b* would keep using ~80 col regardless of screen width 15:44:58 <_3b> don't know how people can stand to read text (or code) in 20inch lines 15:45:03 When my lisp code starts to exceed 80-characters-width and indentation looks ugly to fix this, I suspect I'm doing something wrong while coding, and this assumption generally works. 15:46:47 I have a wide screen, but generally use more than one window horizontally 15:46:59 also, some people do not have wide screens 15:47:12 80 cols is a good default 15:47:30 unless your code isn't supposed to be read by other people 15:47:48 *shrug* 15:48:12 *_3b* still thinks manually formatting code is silly :) 15:48:47 you allow the machine to guess? 15:49:24 <_3b> no, still do it by hand, like a lot of other things i think are silly... doesn't mean that is the right way though 15:49:49 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 When I first read java.util.concurrent.ConcurrentLinkedList sources, I was amazed by how the author -- which I couldn't remember right now -- managed to write such beautiful code even in Java without breaking 80-char-width convention! Actually, if we'd take it directly proportional, I should be able to code quite well in 20-char-width in lisp. Heh! 15:51:02 'java.util.concurrent.ConcurrentLinkedList' - getting to the point where the name is nearly a screen space problem 15:51:56 Indeed, that should remark the coder's ability twice! 15:52:09 xan: yes 15:54:35 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:55:53 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:09 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:49 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2CBC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:27 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 15:59:02 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@225.89-10-30.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:59:41 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [] 16:02:17 -!- Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [lem.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 16:02:27 Mannerisky [n=Manneris@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:25 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:04:08 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.246.120] has joined #lisp 16:04:14 Do you really need a database if you are writing a webapp in CL? Can't you get away with serialising/deserialising S-Expressions to/from the filesystem? 16:04:29 ZabaQ: depends what you are doing 16:04:38 people don't just use databases out of masochism, you know 16:04:41 ZabaQ: I've used Rucksack in a couple of apps. 16:05:00 for instance, indexes are very useful 16:05:41 as is generally being able to store millions of records and access them in a sane way 16:05:51 ZabaQ: I do have a bug in either my code or Rucksack's with multiple Hunchentoot threads 16:06:34 is rucksack supposed to be thread-safe? 16:07:15 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:07:36 rsynnott: i'm not quite sure but someone on its mailinglist added some support for it to be threadsafe. this is all from foggy memory though, i have to get back to it sometime 16:08:28 -!- loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:09:21 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:09:44 rucksack's author is pretty busy with work though :( 16:10:05 Cronos [n=a@5acc72a3.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:02 netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:06 Oh darn this might not have anything to do with thread safety: http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/rucksack-devel/2008-July/000825.html 16:12:21 do i understand right, that ECL generates c-code (+ header + run-time-data) which can be compiled using a standard c-compiler (on supported platforms)? 16:12:30 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:13:13 aerique: that LOOKS like it is thread safety stuff 16:13:16 oh wait it does \o/ 16:13:21 but may or may not be sufficient on its own 16:13:26 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2FF61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:47 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:13:52 rsynnott: yeah, i hadn't checked out the attachment yet :) 16:14:52 antifuchs: do you have a working git bisector at the moment? 16:14:58 <_8david> Can I get Mailman or Gmane to bounce an article to me that was sent before I subscribed to the list, so that I can reply to it properly? 16:15:11 it should be fully operational 16:15:16 Xof: sounds like a torture implement :S 16:15:17 <_8david> (Or if not, what are the Mailman authors thinking?) 16:15:38 -!- Grilinctus is now known as Aankhen`` 16:15:44 trebor_dki: yup 16:16:42 antifuchs: I believe that version 1.0.21.29 broke compiling of the mcclim-truetype system 16:16:57 or, well, 1.0.21.8 on one machine seems to work and 1.0.24.scary seems not to 16:17:32 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.178] has joined #lisp 16:17:40 how can I quickly remove a certain method from a generic function? 16:17:42 hmmm, this requires mcclim & mcclim-truetype, right? 16:17:46 in the repl I mean 16:17:58 clhs remove-method 16:17:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_met.htm 16:18:00 antifuchs: it should all be in the mcclim cvs checkout 16:18:01 combined with find-method 16:18:07 ok 16:18:10 many thanks 16:18:41 how's your last day? 16:18:43 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:00 trebor_dki: yes. Not only that, but the default when you call COMPILE is also to generate that code, compile it with that standard c-compiler, and load it. 16:19:13 right now, a bit boring 16:19:34 I've already packed all my stuff, so I'm mostly waiting to get out the door tomorrow (: 16:19:36 aerique & kuwabara: so it would be possible to port it to use cuda, right? 16:20:28 you're changing jobs, antifuchs? 16:20:39 nope, just changing cities (: 16:20:46 ahh. where to? 16:21:01 first, back to vienna, then san francisco for a while 16:21:15 awesome. I love San Francisco. :) 16:21:34 I hope I will, too (: 16:21:44 it's a very nice city. 16:22:09 so I heard. closeness to pacific ocean + friendly temperatures sounds like a good deal (: 16:22:31 it definitely is. if you like to sail or surf, it's practically nirvana. ;) 16:22:37 vienna is less than friendly temperatures at this time of year, I think :) 16:22:52 i meant not to use only but to support cuda. 16:23:24 rugala [n=rugala@student.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 16:24:13 -!- rugala [n=rugala@student.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:53 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-254-118.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 16:26:11 antifuchs: I think I have a simpler test case if you want it 16:26:14 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:20 that would be excellent. 16:26:50 trebor_dki: i have no idea what cuda is 16:27:41 antifuchs: I have some trouble with find-method in sbcl 16:27:45 antifuchs: http://paste.lisp.org/display/73865 16:27:49 stick that in foo.lisp 16:27:55 excellent 16:28:02 then your test case is (assert (null (nth-value (compile-file "foo.lisp") 2))) 16:28:24 if I'm not mistaken, just doing #'fun doesn't get the generic method find-method wants 16:29:29 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:32:46 # 16:32:47 antifuchs: incidentally, it's been so long since I've actually used cvs that I typed "cvs log" in my sbcl directory expecting it to give me useful information 16:32:48 :( 16:32:51 dfox__ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 16:33:02 yvdriess: have you traced your generic function or something? 16:33:04 don't do that 16:33:16 -!- dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:33:18 grmbl] 16:33:40 so I should just pull the plug and load everything again 16:33:45 because I traced 16:33:57 yep 16:34:00 it makes sbcl sad 16:34:04 Xof: hm, it seems like my 1.0.21 fails this test, as well 16:35:03 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:35:26 gah 16:36:11 my 1.0.21.8 compiles foo.lisp without error 16:36:35 my 1.0.22.14 gives me two full WARNINGs 16:36:59 hm. 16:37:04 wait, I'm testing wrong 16:37:21 any xlib hackers around? 16:37:31 DECODE-WM-HINTS gives me garbage 16:37:53 ...and crashes stumpwm 16:40:35 should try and get the arg order for nth-value right (: 16:40:49 it's (nth-value n values-form) (: 16:40:49 oh, sorry 16:41:12 yvdriess: you can untrace, and then stuff will work 16:41:18 etate [n=malune@bb-87-81-97-91.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 argh 16:41:50 I thought I untraced it 16:42:11 is there a Lars posting on a clojure vs common lisp reddit debate in here 16:42:33 etate: There was. 16:43:38 these kinds of people that make the CL community look bad 16:44:21 we are working on our mass mind controlling device to avoid these things in the future, check again in a few months ... 16:44:48 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:02 there is no grand unified conspiracy^H community 16:45:20 no, but there is a pattern that needs to be destroyed 16:45:24 within it 16:45:24 :p 16:45:38 Xof: bisector confirms it is 1.0.21.29: handle alien record type redefinitions (bug 431) 16:46:56 -!- gh7d395pi69wd_ [n=asdf@d75-157-207-144.bchsia.telus.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:47:32 thanks 16:47:46 took me long enough (: 16:47:56 but now the bisector setup should be working again, whee 16:47:56 etate: sticking your tongue out will achieve nothing. Why don't you provide useful content instead? 16:48:32 just in time for you to disappear off into scaryland 16:49:02 xan: be careful; etate can't detect irony 16:49:26 Krystof: okay, well I have some code written, but i don't think it would help the argument 16:49:54 it might make your contribution to this channel's interests less overwhelmingly negative 16:49:54 Krystof: I've got a partial 3d engine in CL ... maybe thats useful content? 16:50:05 -!- vsync [n=vsync@220-27.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:50:23 Xof: overwhelmingly negative? bit harsh dontcha think? 16:51:45 Not given your crimes against the apostrophe. 16:52:03 etate, it should be obvious that we can't control what people choose to say on internet forums. Coming here saying "you guys should stop that, it makes you look bad" is about as useless/silly/unfair as it gets. 16:52:20 xan: thats not what I was doing 16:52:25 morning #lisp 16:52:42 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:52:49 xan: i just wanted to talk about the issues with Lars, because it requires a lengthier discussion than a blog post. 16:53:10 etate: no. we can safely ignore "lars" 16:53:29 H4ns: he made some interesting points though, that I could learn from 16:53:33 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:39 Hello all. 16:53:55 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 16:54:19 etate: great. we've all been pointed to that blog post, everybody may now grasp his points or not. that is more than the post deserves. 16:57:06 H4ns: fair enough 16:57:35 etate: you know, pointing to some random resource in the net and expecting people to read through it and then discuss in a meaningful way is not how #lisp works. i'd even say it is not how irc works in general. 16:57:54 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:58:07 etate: if you have a point to make or discuss, go ahead and make it right here. if it is an interesting point, it may trigger an interesting discussion. 16:58:14 Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 16:58:14 I make an exception for pictures with captions set in Impact on them. 16:58:35 antifuchs: i also like ponies. 16:58:49 of cats, or in general? 16:59:39 H4ns: that isn't actually what I intended. :) I just wanted to speak with lars but he is not here, my bad. lol 16:59:51 "lol" 17:00:39 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:50 *nyef* wonders what would happen if he tried to enable :long-float for an SBCL build. 17:00:54 H4ns: and ponies work better with impact captions, as well (: 17:01:14 nyef: chaos and madness, no doubt 17:01:20 No doubt. 17:01:48 Certainly enough chaos and madness lurks in the debugger support for floats in general, nevermind long floats. 17:04:06 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.127] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:05:30 anyone uses gc-off, gc-on? 17:06:04 *nyef* forgot the existance of that pair. 17:06:12 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.176.237] has joined #lisp 17:07:23 Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 17:10:16 what's a simple way to make a 'wait' function in sbcl? 17:10:35 what's a 'wait' function? 17:10:37 what do you intend to wait for? 17:10:47 yvdriess: (sleep) ? 17:10:58 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:11 yvdriess: i mean (sleep N) 17:11:20 aah sleep, excellent 17:11:20 Or did you mean something to the effect of waitpid(2)? 17:11:27 vsync [n=vsync@220-27.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:32 nah just sleep is ok :) 17:11:48 or waiting for a condition variable, or a lock, or activity on a file descriptor? 17:13:34 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:14:42 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:16:01 -!- Reaver_1 [n=m@h253.n4.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:17:07 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 17:18:17 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:19:06 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:20:00 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.176.237] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:20:44 Is the ability to bind a bunch of fasls into a dll or other shared-object callable from C or an executable worth the loss of the ability to save-lisp-and-die a running image? 17:20:56 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 17:22:10 would it get us closer or farther from getting freestanding shippable executables from sbcl? 17:23:14 loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:24 beach```` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-113-176.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:25:21 someone have try trivial-ldap ? i ve got a problem using trivial-ldap:dosearch macro 17:25:29 Considering that an executable is essentially a DLL with no exports... 17:25:51 Right now, however, this is a theoretical excersize. 17:26:15 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progpc35.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 17:27:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/73868 <-- a unbound-variable problem ... 17:28:06 i read this exemple http://mikael.jansson.be/journal/tag/ldap 17:28:09 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:29:04 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 17:29:12 but doesn't works for me 17:29:34 l_a_m: SYMBOL-VALUE doesn't work on lexical variables 17:30:00 just substitute the symbol as is if you want the value 17:30:11 cmm: ok i try it 17:31:43 the whole DOSEARCH macro looks kind of awkward, really 17:36:32 Kathrin-25^away- [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 -!- beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-131-147.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:06 -!- Kathrin-25^away [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:41:19 netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:24 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:44:36 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:46:12 -!- loxs [n=loxs@fw1.netmania-it.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:47:05 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483EFBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:07 -!- beach```` is now known as beach 17:47:24 Good evening. 17:47:36 evenin' beach 17:48:40 What did I miss? 17:49:06 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-182-170.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:53:48 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 17:53:53 just the usual. There was a free raffle of a classic lisp machine earlier. 17:53:59 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:06 you didn't miss much 17:54:22 free to good home with re-enforced floors and three-phase power? 17:54:31 rsynnott: yeah 17:54:46 heh 17:55:59 On the one hand, I am glad I didn't miss much; on the other hand, that means that not much progress is being made :( 17:56:21 not quite! I'm being very productive today! \o/ 17:56:44 sykopomp: Congratulations! Does it have anything to do with Lisp? 17:57:25 yup. I figured out a few things, sucked it up, and finally kept going with sheeple (CLOS-like system with prototypes) 17:57:36 having fun, to boot :) 17:57:46 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-202-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:13 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 17:58:30 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:58:31 _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has joined #lisp 17:58:43 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 18:01:38 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:01:47 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 18:04:47 -!- ZabaQ [n=jconnors@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:05:29 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has joined #lisp 18:07:59 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:09:58 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:10:12 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-68-202-150.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:40 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:14:03 mulligan [n=user@e178032012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:22 =^.^= 18:22:38 is it possible for a function assigned for pretty printing a certain type with set-pprint-dispatch to call the next specific / next lower priority function? 18:22:51 Yes. 18:22:55 something like call-next method for pprint-dispatchers 18:23:34 Well, sortof. 18:24:03 nyef: how does it work? 18:24:07 You can get-pprint-dispatch. And you can do so prior to adding your new function if necessary. 18:25:08 Actual implementation left as an excersize, but the bits are there. 18:25:23 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-177.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 nyef: hang on 18:26:56 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:27:23 kleppari_ [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:27:51 -!- Cronos [n=a@5acc72a3.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 18:28:41 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 18:29:58 hmm, maybe specialize PRINT-OBJECT and branch on *print-pretty*? 18:30:02 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 18:32:05 davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:36 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:00 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:11 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:35:47 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:38:58 weirdo: i don't see where you are going... 18:39:22 weirdo: print-object is called after no dispatch is found... 18:39:35 demmeln, if you specialized PRINT-OBJECT, you could just CALL-NEXT-METHOD 18:40:00 but printing and pretty printing is a bit too confusing for me 18:40:15 weirdo: same here ^^ 18:42:22 Hrm... Maybe I'm wrong. 18:42:50 clows [n=clows@cpe90-146-210-193.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 18:43:07 -!- hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:44:00 Okay, this doesn't allow for much dynamic redefinition, but you can copy the dispatch table prior to installing your new function, which should get you a similar net effect... 18:45:46 The fundamental problem is the lack of any way to query a pprint-dispatch table other than the use of pprint-dispatch itself. 18:46:06 hej demmeln. 18:47:01 Oh! I know... 18:47:28 What you do is copy the table, set-pprint-dispatch a function of NIL for your type specifier, then pprint-dispatch your object. 18:47:40 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:47:45 Doesn't nest well, unfortunately. 18:47:47 Right that's what I showed him a few hours ago in person. 18:48:13 Oh it does nest well, you just have to bind *pprint-dispatch-table* to that new table. 18:48:22 *nyef* shakes his head. 18:48:23 it's expensive, though 18:48:44 Not if you want the original dispatch to trigger if there's another matching object as a sub-element. 18:48:53 Yes, it is expensive. 18:49:21 ryepup [n=ryepup@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:28 Clearly, the pretty-printer needs an overhaul at least as much as the reader does :) 18:49:37 (Hrm... I have a week. Can I cons up an impressive SBCL-related hack in time for the next boston-lisp-meeting?) 18:50:55 sb-usb? 18:51:19 Nah, though I could take the week to do an 0.2 version. 18:53:28 Might be able to do something in terms of a debugger, but... that's mostly on parsing dwarf tables for now... 18:57:33 netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 demmeln pasted "pprint dispatch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73875 18:59:43 tcr: hi 18:59:47 what about this? 19:00:01 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:27 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:36 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 19:00:41 this doesnt require copying the table 19:01:58 demmeln: The use of copy-pprint-dispatch says otherwise. 19:03:06 It is also not particularly friendly to redefinition. 19:03:08 nyef: yeah but that's just once for the creation of my custom dispatch table. not each time when calling the old method for pprinting. 19:03:41 Add a printer for prime numbers later on with a lower priority than the even-number printer and it'll all go wibbly. 19:05:29 nyef: oh i see your point. but this depends on what you expect. If you expect your definition to call the method that would have been used up to the point you made your definition, then your fine... or not? 19:06:02 Mmm... And, for your particular test case, have you considered a SATISFIES type? 19:06:10 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:06:29 (set-pprint-dispatch '(and number (satisfies #'oddp)) ...) or however it goes. 19:06:56 nyef: how about if you want to specialize depending on the stream? 19:07:40 nyef: pprint as before on "normal" streams and pprint is some special way with presentations on clim streams 19:07:47 -!- dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:08:31 I'd start by looking at the hooks provided for the gray stream protocol. 19:09:12 See if I can wedge an :around method for anything which would pprint-dispatch to set a custom table. 19:09:17 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:09:23 But, really, this is currently hypothetical. 19:09:31 ahaas [n=ahaas@c-76-17-41-185.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:39 Until you have a real use-case, preferably several, there's no point. 19:10:01 "pprint as before on "normal" streams and pprint is some special way with presentations on clim streams" is my use case 19:10:06 user___ [n=user@p54926B04.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:51 don't know about the gray stream protocol though. can i achieve it with that? 19:11:32 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.139.140.101] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:11:34 I wouldn't know. 19:11:50 Did I not just say "start by looking at the hooks provided"? 19:11:55 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-232.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 19:12:10 Or, in other words, "here's where you can do your own research"? 19:12:18 hello 19:12:22 Hello fe[nl]ix. 19:12:32 hi nyef 19:14:05 H4ns1 [n=hans@p57A0CE0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:13 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA709.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:14:16 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 19:15:09 nyef: sure. but i could have been: "i know you can do it with that, just not exactly how right now. so go look." Or it could have been: "I've heart about this. go look whether its useful." 19:15:13 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA709.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:17 Jabberwockey [n=jens@mue-88-130-71-172.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:36 clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 19:19:55 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:00 -!- jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:20:07 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 19:21:42 so apparently apt-get install sbcl kills my slicehost, and the machine it's running on 19:21:48 that is ... amusing 19:21:57 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 19:22:59 Have you considered alternate hosting? 19:23:14 (What are they running, Xen 2.x?) 19:23:51 I know that in the past (maybe 2 years ago), slicehost could not run sbcl. I don't know if that has changed. 19:24:42 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:26:40 Fortunately, this is not a big deal, as nobody uses lisp anyway. 19:27:08 (For values of nobody sufficiently small as to be ignorable without serious loss of profit.) 19:27:15 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.127] has joined #lisp 19:27:42 does it work with linode? 19:27:58 that is what we use for our internal apps now, but i don't want to kill that machine right now :) 19:28:05 I know it works with tech.coop, does that help? 19:28:30 perhaps 19:28:48 i think i can also get away with clisp, if i need to 19:28:53 Linode doesn't use Xen, does it? 19:28:58 so this is really just an amusement, rather than something i care about :) 19:29:09 keramida [n=keramida@adsl9-213.kln.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:29:34 When I used Linode, it was using UML, and I don't think I could run SBCL on that, either, at the time. 19:29:39 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 ahaas: linode is using xen for all new stuff 19:30:28 that was my understanding 19:30:31 and previously the problem was uml versus futex conflicts 19:30:34 i will try it and see :) 19:30:41 all of which are resolved currently anyway 19:30:52 (at least on my legacy UML linode) 19:32:22 mjf [n=mjf@r9fk13.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:33:12 nyef: thanks for the help anyway. i'll see where it goes 19:33:45 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:53 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-48-148.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:33:57 wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 19:33:58 cooldude127 [n=cooldude@adsl-232-65-9.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:03 -!- Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:36:21 -!- cooldude127 [n=cooldude@adsl-232-65-9.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:41 cooldude127 [n=cooldude@adsl-232-65-9.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:06 -!- hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:39:45 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-71-164-35-120.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:40:59 Cel [n=Cel@d54C53B58.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:41:07 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:18 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r9fk13.net.upc.cz] has quit [""Dew on the telephone lines.""] 19:47:19 _8david: Ping? 19:48:06 -!- cooldude127 [n=cooldude@adsl-232-65-9.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info/"] 19:48:27 Luyt [n=user@cc616186-b.groni1.gr.home.nl] has joined #lisp 19:48:36 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:49:45 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:49:57 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-113-176.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:19 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:53 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:52:45 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:39 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:55:43 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:39 -!- Luyt [n=user@cc616186-b.groni1.gr.home.nl] has left #lisp 19:58:17 josemanuel [n=josemanu@193.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:58:25 <_8david> Hi 19:58:56 _8david: Do I remember rightly that you were having trouble with relocatable cores? 19:59:08 Particularly relocatable cold cores? 19:59:16 <_8david> exactly 19:59:29 jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #lisp 19:59:47 Did you account for the fixups for a code-object not being available in cold-cores? 19:59:54 (At least, not on x86oids.) 20:00:41 <_8david> I considered that, but didn't find anything. But IIANM, the AMD 64 port doesn't actually use fixups, and it has the same problem. 20:00:54 Hrm. 20:01:08 The -code- is still there for fixups on amd64. 20:01:27 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 20:02:31 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-118-80.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:04:33 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [] 20:04:35 <_8david> there's little chance that I'll be working on this for the next time. Go grab the fame and fix it yourself! :-) 20:04:59 Heh. Is your patch-in-progress available somewhere? 20:05:07 -!- mgs` [n=mgs@unaffiliated/mgs/x-0000001] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:05:28 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has quit [] 20:06:00 Jarbell [n=willijar@host81-156-12-166.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:14 <_8david> sure, it's the relocation branch in git://repo.or.cz/sbcl/lichteblau.git 20:06:26 Ah. Thank you. 20:07:43 <_8david> on linux, tools-for-build/libreloctest.so can be used to block part of the memory map easily 20:08:17 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:08:30 what kind of problems were those? 20:08:41 Just add it to LD_PRELOAD for a run? 20:08:57 -!- jgracin__ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:10:50 <_8david> jsnell: I'm afraid I don't recall. It works its way through quite a bit of code until failing somewhere. 20:11:58 <_8david> nyef: right, see the comments at the top of the file. 20:12:00 evening 20:12:28 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:12:41 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:13:43 <_8david> (I'm actually hacking quite a bit of SBCL currently, but it's for weird experiments at work, and I can't really justify working on patches like the relocation stuff for that.) 20:14:07 Hrm. I think I did something wrong. I only see a master branch here. 20:14:20 <_8david> nyef: git checkout -b relocation origin/relocation 20:14:57 Ah, I see. 20:15:29 -!- heyman [i=bite@gateway/tor/x-8a7eb3e4726ded1f] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:20 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:17:01 Thank you. 20:17:51 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:19:00 -!- Jarbell [n=willijar@host81-156-12-166.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 20:19:23 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:20:00 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-48-148.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:02 -!- fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.127.12] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:21:33 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-143-29.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:27:26 netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:26 -!- beach`` is now known as beach 20:28:04 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-130-53-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:32:28 -!- clausewitz [n=th@0x535b95eb.kjnxx11.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [No route to host] 20:33:27 -!- cavelife [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:34:02 -!- [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.178] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:34:19 fschwidom [n=fschwido@94.219.117.229] has joined #lisp 20:41:06 -!- user___ [n=user@p54926B04.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:41:12 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:42:03 [Head|Rest] [n=jap@217.149.188.112] has joined #lisp 20:43:38 has anyone here read Let Over Lambda? 20:44:03 the amazon review makes it sound amazing so i'm thinking of getting it, is that wise or ? 20:44:32 user___ [n=user@p54926B04.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:38 lol 20:44:48 netaustin_ [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:52 it sounds like rambo would read that book 20:44:56 or bruce schneier 20:45:03 lol 20:45:16 yeah, i was thinking it may have some cool uses of macros 20:45:31 what i'm interested in knowing is whether its just a rehash of On Lisp 20:45:43 or whether it adds substantial knowledge 20:46:01 Or if it's just a joke, taken to an extreme? 20:46:18 the, uh, book has a website with the full text: http://letoverlambda.com/ 20:46:34 <_death> take a look at the code, that you can find online.. 20:47:07 well, a good part of the text 20:47:40 mait [n=user@genyv.rot.sgsnet.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:08 sounds like a good book by skimming it 20:48:19 <_death> I didn't get that impression.. 20:48:21 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 20:48:24 maybe a bit rocket sciency but i think tht's the point 20:48:54 using big words is easy, you shouldn't get too impressed by that 20:49:16 yeah, i just mean that maybe dlambda 20:49:24 is not something you're going to use in a production environment 20:49:30 or not your everyday work environment 20:49:51 BrianRice: wow nice 20:50:12 i think i'll get that one, it looks funnier to read than onlisp 20:50:52 <_death> I wonder if the only reason people associate "on lisp" with it is the author's claims 20:50:55 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:58 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.224.245] has quit ["I have no idea what this [censored] means. Basicly these numbers don't like those numbers and so they are in a fight] 20:51:10 on lisp has a lot of macrology 20:51:21 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:26 Does it have anything else? 20:51:28 I thought xach wrote a review of sorts of LoL, but can only find a reddit post now: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6kc4p/new_book_about_common_lisp_let_over_lambda/ 20:51:41 <_death> z0d: yes.. especially the first few chapters 20:52:12 it seems like a book I'd have to be paid to take a copy of 20:52:33 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb494b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20:53:26 <_death> if you want great Lisp books, I'd stick with PAIP, AMOP, On Lisp, LiSP, and the other classics 20:53:44 hehe 20:53:47 PCL is fine too 20:53:52 <_death> yes 20:54:03 but pcl doesn't really go into high acrobatics 20:54:06 in the way onlisp does 20:54:35 -!- kleppari_ is now known as kleppari 20:54:45 -!- LostMonarch [n=roby@82.49.206.234] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 20:54:52 having skimmed it, it look as complicated as it claims to be :/ 20:55:01 doesn't * 20:55:12 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 20:56:13 _death: I have PAIP, On Lisp, ANSI CL, LiSP, not AMOP though 20:56:38 hah that reddit thread is funny 20:56:44 <_death> have you read and understood them? 20:56:44 and have you read them all? 20:57:14 I've read 60% of On Lisp, 100% of ANSI CL, 40% of LiSP and 50% of PAIP :) 20:57:22 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:35 on lisp, i skipped the beginning chapters and started from chap 6 20:58:02 i'm sure you're not interested in knowing the details of the others :) 20:58:09 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-56-218.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:42 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:59:16 <_death> well, _I_ have read all of those, with the exception of LiSP, which I am reading nowadays, but I wouldn't claim to have sufficiently (to my taste) understood all of PAIP or AMOP.. thus a re-read is pending 20:59:48 yeah I found PAIP to be the trickiest to get through 21:00:06 AMOP i've never really known about 21:01:00 i mean i've heard good things about it, but i've never really needed to use the MOP 21:01:28 i didn't like SICP 21:01:54 they show some solutions for problems and don't describe the inventive step of creating the solution 21:02:11 weirdo: whaaa, SICP is my favourite book! 21:02:26 requiring the reader to comprehend the solution but not to be able to arrive at one prsonally 21:02:26 weirdo: which problems are you referring to? 21:02:57 weirdo: i never had that experience whilst going through SICP ... 21:03:23 weirdo: though i'd agree some problems are tricky if you don't understand them completely 21:03:55 SICP is a book on computer science, and not on programming 21:03:56 it's not a problem with understanding the problem, only that the solution is given and no comment on arriving at it 21:04:07 is computer "science" really science? 21:04:14 weirdo: :) 21:04:25 weirdo: mere terminolgy 21:04:30 is it really about computers? 21:04:53 i grew dissatisfied with it. commercial programming is done to solve irrelevant problems with boring code, only to get paid 21:05:17 "right" 21:05:23 ones who do interesting stuff (e.g. dijkstra) get labelled as "ivory tower intellectuals") 21:05:35 weirdo: depends where you work. I was writing CL code that interfaced with an X ray machine, that was pretty neat. 21:05:45 so how is it that for example a lot of djikstras research applies to most commercial programming out there 21:05:49 yeah, sounds fun 21:06:12 i don't like how programming is a subject to fickle market forces 21:06:33 hah 21:06:35 i don't like how many programmers are just business men that pretend to be able to program 21:07:28 weirdo: as long as you can make something really good, you don't have to be involved with all that 21:07:40 weirdo: e.g: make an independent game in lisp which rocks 21:08:17 how will he do that without turning business man though? 21:08:41 manuel_: if the game is good enough, all you need is a website that sells it for $5 21:08:56 are you sure? 21:09:14 etate: are you selling that fantasy world in your site, too? 21:09:17 manuel_: and perhaps a post on /. about how good and free it is 21:09:20 I hope it's affordable, because I'm pretty broke. 21:09:37 manuel_: free in the sense of 'no drm' 21:09:47 $5 is affordable, and if it was written in Lisp, i'm sure all of you would buy it 21:09:54 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 21:09:54 (maybe, PLZ) 21:09:55 which makes for about a lunch 21:09:56 :} 21:10:07 not even a mainstream game would necessarily help lisp all that much. (I present GOAL and the Jak series as evidence) 21:10:14 -!- kami- [n=user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:10:16 etate: if I wouldn't need opengl for it :) 21:10:24 sykopomp: not just common lisp, and not really known 21:10:40 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:10:44 madnificent: the Jak and Daxter series is pretty damn popular. 21:11:03 sykopomp: it would draw attention if more than 20% of the games would be made in lisp... 21:11:05 sykopomp: it was 500K LOC C++, and 500K LOC GOAL 21:11:35 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:11:47 madnificent: I thought the problem was that we can't figure out how to get there in the first place, hm? 21:11:58 sykopomp: not really known in the sense, that people discover that _after_ they started to learn lisp :) The fact that it is written some lisp isn't well-known. Allso, very very much games are written in C-descendants so... 21:12:01 I reckon a nice little game that people want to play, like a soldat of indie games, would draw attention 21:12:03 -!- jgracin_ [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:12:04 anyways, the lisp popularity issue has been discussed into the ground. I'm gonna go back to writing my spec. 21:12:21 sykopomp: have fun 21:12:23 etate: but to know that you would actually ahve to do business 21:12:36 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:13:04 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:13:24 manuel_: yeah its not all for free, there would definitely be work involved .. 21:13:40 manuel_: but at least then you get away from writing boring code, and can potentially earn on your own 21:14:01 heh 21:14:14 disumu [n=disumu@p57A25583.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:32 manuel_: but then again, i'm an optimist so YMMV 21:15:07 saying that, if anyone does want to write some games, i have code avail that you can have 21:15:24 etate: talk to dto and check #rlx (I think) in order to see if there would be help for you (and vice-versa) 21:15:26 well, the maths is pretty easy, you'd have to sell about 600 or so per month to sustain a low-key student kind-of-life 21:15:46 manuel_: why must you ruin the dream I didn't even have? :P 21:15:50 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-56-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 21:15:55 :} 21:16:52 manuel_: you need $2600 a month to sustain a low-key student kind-of-life ?! 21:16:56 taxes 21:16:58 website 21:17:01 stuff like that 21:17:12 O_O 21:17:15 i dunno where you live 21:17:26 website costs like nothing 21:17:34 for a simple site 21:17:35 -!- demmeln [n=demmeln@atradig108.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 21:17:39 yes but who does the design? 21:17:50 who maintains it? who does customer care? etc... 21:17:51 if you can design a game, you can design a website :) 21:17:58 Buy a template. 21:18:18 customer care... they are gamers, as long as your game works ... 21:18:33 etate: okay, so just say you'll only need to sell 300 copies (now be very very very pessimistic about what you're going to estimate, you _will_ have costs coming from nowhere) 21:19:44 etate: allso, try to realise that you'll probably get stuck somewhere and that motivation is sometimes hard to find (a bit like writing a book). If you do do it, then I guess most of this channel will try to support you :) 21:20:13 etate: oh, and if you're writing a race game (say something like gran turismo, but with the reality of live for speed, let me test-drive! :P) 21:20:25 etate, there are many socially beneficial activities not involving monetary reward, it works the other way around too, but it's pretty much offtopic for the channel 21:20:34 cavelife^ [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has joined #lisp 21:20:54 it's deifnitely easier to spend money and have a good time 21:20:59 than have a godo time and get money for it 21:21:14 madnificent: i've just about completed the 3d engine part of the code for fun really, maybe a racing game would be quite an easy start :) 21:21:26 does it run under windows? 21:21:26 :} 21:21:37 manuel_: yeah it should do 21:21:49 nice, what compiler do you use? 21:21:54 etate: if you're in need for ideas (some finished to a rather nice extent), I can get you into contact with a friend of mine. He likes to create games... 21:22:00 manuel_: i switched between CMUCL and SBCL alot during the dev 21:22:03 i utterly failed with sbcl 21:22:16 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-212-217-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:33 madnificent: :) i'm okay with ideas I think, thats the fun part! 21:22:48 manuel_: how far did you get? 21:22:57 manuel_: if it works for linux, I'll be glad to evaluate it for you (and pay for it if its good) and try to show where it should be improved. IFF it is supposed to be realistic, because I can not compare with non-real sutuations :) 21:23:34 perhaps join #lispgames and talk there for a while, this is offtopic for #lisp 21:23:48 i got so far as crashing sbcl on loading a dll, iirc 21:23:56 madnificent: to be honest i was just advising weirdo at first, but now i think its a good idea lol 21:23:57 ooh. Another channel. 21:26:42 netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:38 -!- Kathrin-25^away- [n=kati-zh@59-34-239-77-pool.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:32:00 -!- netaustin_ [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:32:01 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@mue-88-130-71-172.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:32:03 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:36 PissedNumlock [i=resteven@igwe19.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 21:35:48 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.9] has joined #lisp 21:35:55 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:05 if I create a package with some structures and classes in it, do I need to export all the autogenerated functions of these structures 21:36:17 or can I just export #:struct-name 21:36:43 you are exporting symbols, if you want to access some symbols from other packages, yes, you need to export them 21:36:44 It depends on if you want to be able to access them without using internal symbols of the package. 21:37:25 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:37:29 k thx 21:40:01 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178032012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:40:04 <_3b> are there any fuse bindings available? 21:40:25 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:40:28 <_3b> cl-fuse has a page on cl-net, but couldn't find any code 21:40:34 Not that I'm aware of, but I was considering writing some. 21:41:16 It's really too bad we can't have IOCTLs for files on FUSE. 21:41:29 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:41:29 I understand why not, but it's still a bit of a shame. 21:41:53 blitz_ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has joined #lisp 21:43:48 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 21:44:00 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:12 _3b: I'd be interested in those, too. 21:45:24 <_3b> guess i could just start binding things as i want to use them, and see how far i get :) 21:45:39 'swhat I did for usbfs. 21:46:02 <_3b> actually, guess i should make sure i can run fuse at all first :) 21:46:17 <_3b> any idea how to check that? 21:46:21 'course, FUSE seems to be more about data transfers on a device node than IOCTLs on a device node. 21:46:32 See if you have a fuse device? 21:46:36 Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:46 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-232.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 21:46:48 Should be /dev/fuse if you have it. 21:47:03 <_3b> hmm, don't see one 21:47:28 (Well, might not be /dev/fuse. I know my uinput device is /dev/input/uinput rather than /dev/uinput.) 21:47:49 Or check for FUSE in /proc/config.gz or whatever it's called. 21:49:01 nyef: Decided on yer great sbcl's hack for those bostoners yet? 21:49:23 Not yet. 21:49:29 Not even sure if I'm going to do one. 21:51:53 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@2001:6f8:10f6:0:21b:77ff:fe41:11ab] has quit ["leaving"] 21:53:18 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-177.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:55:06 -!- keramida [n=keramida@adsl9-213.kln.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:55:15 643 people in #haskell, I think i'll go there. ciao! 21:55:19 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182ddad4.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 21:55:38 Why don't you do some introductionary talk to DEFKNOWN and DEFINE-VOP? The material could then perhaps be incorporated into the manual. 21:56:27 Ah, you're thinking of for a few months down the line, rather than next week? 21:57:08 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-232.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 21:58:06 I apparently erred on the complexity involved at describing them. 21:58:17 I'm perfectly fine for a few months down the line, though! 21:58:44 Well, it's more that dto already has a presentation for Monday, and I'm supposedly on for somewhere around April, I think it was... 21:59:17 ah you didn't indent to give a talk, but just something to show off on your notebook? 21:59:24 Yeah. 21:59:28 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #lisp 21:59:31 Intend, not indent. :-P 22:00:05 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp102-62.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:00:15 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [No route to host] 22:01:59 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:05 -!- Beeet is now known as Beket 22:02:32 <_3b> ah, guess i just needed to load the fuse module :) 22:02:44 -!- zenbalrog [n=johnnyc@adsl-70-239-213-111.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["My damn controlling terminal disappeared!"] 22:02:49 That would do it, if it were a module. 22:02:56 I just build monolithic kernels. 22:03:22 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.149.70] has joined #lisp 22:03:25 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:04:54 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:07:08 beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-22-112.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:07:29 why? 22:07:40 Why what? 22:08:14 why monolithic? 22:08:23 *stassats* just uses kernels from distributive 22:08:32 that said, I didn't build a kernel since I switched over to ubuntu 22:08:56 *hefner* used monolithic kernels before he resolved to give up fussing with kernels 22:09:00 Any number of reasons. From less hassle with regards to dependencies needing to be added to an initrd to simply because it's the way I've always done it. 22:09:37 -!- clows [n=clows@cpe90-146-210-193.liwest.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:09:40 kind of lame when you have to recompile your kernel because you got a new joystick, though =p 22:11:00 That's what USBHID is for, isn't it? 22:11:20 (And, failing that, usbfs and uinput.) 22:11:36 I also held out from using this newfangled USB nonsense for a good four or five years 22:12:23 (and I'm still waiting to find an old style PC gameport to USB adapter) 22:12:46 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d826a6.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:54 So you can plug your USB devices into a gameport? 22:12:59 no, other way 22:13:07 I figured. :-P 22:13:09 (was that a joke?) 22:13:32 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:14:12 Cronos [n=a@5ad08ffd.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:51 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@pool-71-175-134-12.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:16:56 anyone know how to submit a ticket through Trac (for Elephant project particularly)? Does someone need to create an account for me? 22:17:49 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:49 -!- netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has quit [] 22:18:54 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:36 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:20:37 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:21:12 beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-123-37.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:21:36 I think you need an c-l.net account 22:23:27 And possibly to remember the password to said c-l.net account. 22:24:12 *nyef* makes it a point to forget the password to any account he can set up with an ssh authorized_key. 22:24:16 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:24:38 -!- beach [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-118-80.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:25:05 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 22:27:01 ah 22:27:25 tritchey_ [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:52 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:36 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:59 -!- davazp [n=user@121.Red-79-152-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:34:31 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A25583.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:35:36 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@93.163.43.22] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:36:03 clows [n=clows@cpe90-146-210-193.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 22:36:07 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:36:44 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:37:32 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:37:59 etate: hello. i saw in the scrollback you might have a question for me? 22:38:35 -!- beach` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-22-112.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:39:56 dto: ? not sure can you paste 22:40:08 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:41:47 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AA3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:07 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:42:22 etate: saying that, if anyone does want to write some games, i have code 22:42:22 avail that you can have [16:19] 22:42:22 etate: talk to dto and check #rlx (I think) in order to see if 22:42:22 there would be help for you (and vice-versa) 22:42:25 22:42:42 dto: #lispgames 22:43:03 madnificent: cool! 22:43:21 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:48:39 Any clbuild developers around? 22:49:11 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.9] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:49:14 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:49:31 there was someone here last night I think. although maybe it was you? 22:49:32 :) 22:49:37 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@193.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 22:49:55 It sure wasn't me. 22:50:54 -!- Beket [n=stathis@ppp102-62.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:51:04 Beeet [n=stathis@ppp102-62.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:54:21 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:57:36 gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-88e9a9baaf0e70e4] has joined #lisp 22:58:48 netaustin [n=austinsm@email.observer.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:56 kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:25 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:31 -!- user___ [n=user@p54926B04.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:04:59 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483EFBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:08:33 AmiableCrocodile [n=nimaj@d199-126-167-79.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:54 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.69.218] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:10:48 beach``` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-107-190.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:10:55 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:53 -!- Cronos [n=a@5ad08ffd.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 23:14:38 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.149.70] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:20 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:19:45 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["gone"] 23:20:28 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:37 There are times when I really hate firefox. Those times usually involve it crashing, it trying to start up a pdf viewer, or (like now) it completely pegging the CPU. :-/ 23:24:47 -!- nxt [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:24:58 nyef: are you on linux? 23:25:01 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-76-254-22-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:25:16 This would be the firefox on my windows box. 23:26:19 -!- beach`` [n=user@ABordeaux-158-1-123-37.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:26:23 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:26:24 nyef: ah ok, i was going to suggest swiftfox 23:26:50 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 23:27:24 Can't even kill it from the task manager? WTF? 23:27:46 nxt [n=lasts@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 23:27:47 nyef: you trying to End Application or End Process 23:27:53 End Process. 23:28:02 hmm, that's what i usually try with firefox as well. 23:28:17 I just used End Power To The Computer. That stopped it. 23:28:23 lol 23:28:33 jao [n=user@81.Red-83-33-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:04 you never know 23:29:32 nyef: Sometimes killed processes come back to haunt you. 23:29:50 haha 23:29:54 z0d: Aaah! It's a Zombie! Run! 23:30:09 Just get some garlic. 23:30:32 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:30:44 -!- mait [n=user@genyv.rot.sgsnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:31:55 tessier [n=treed@mail.copilotconsulting.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:14 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 23:32:27 No, that's for Vampire processes, not Zombie processes. 23:33:05 For Zombies the only thing you can do is wait(2) for them to fall apart. 23:34:18 Ah, true. 23:34:32 Or kill their parent. 23:34:55 No, because they just get inherited by their parent's parent, and so on up the line. 23:35:16 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:18 True, if it gets far enough up the line, someone usually does that wait(2), but it's still not an absolute thing. 23:35:19 Well WFM most of the times. 23:35:29 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:35:33 really? I'm fairly certain orphans get inherited by init (pid 1) 23:35:40 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 23:35:49 jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 23:35:50 housel: I think that's if you kill their pgrp leader. 23:36:20 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cpe90-146-117-45.liwest.at] has quit [] 23:36:23 I could be wrong, I suppose. 23:36:59 anyone have the with-html macro code for CL-WHO ? 23:37:16 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Client Quit] 23:38:04 -!- jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:38:38 if not, is there anywhere I can search the #lisp chat log? can't remember the date 23:39:00 Isn't the source downloadable? 23:39:03 felideon: search in the test file. 23:39:41 bighouse [n=bighouse@bas1-montreal42-1177928173.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:40:56 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:41:01 Soon it'll be 1234567890 time. 23:41:40 Around Feb 13th 23:42:02 <_death> we don't use that kind of time here :) 23:42:57 Indeed. Do we not use time from a different epoch? 23:42:58 -!- drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:43:05 <_death> yes.. 1900 23:43:35 "1900? Wow, Lisp has been around for a while, hasn't it?" 23:43:53 <_death> yes.. certainly before 1970 :) 23:44:14 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:44:29 z0d: can't find the test file. 23:44:50 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 23:45:23 (defmacro with-html (&body body) 23:45:23 `(with-html-output-to-string (*standard-output* nil :prologue t) 23:45:23 ,@body)) 23:45:35 thanks :) 23:45:55 <_3b> looks like we get an interesting time around jul 16th of this year 23:46:13 <_death> it was nice to see that in Naggum's article about local time, he chose his epoch in the future, based on something more than nothing 23:46:50 _3b: In Lisp time? 23:47:00 <_3b> yeah 23:48:01 <_3b> (encode-universal-time 12 10 22 16 7 2009) 23:48:39 <_death> you forgot the timezone 23:48:42 3456785412? 23:49:05 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:50:12 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [] 23:50:59 it's 5 23:51:07 (encode-universal-time 12 10 22 16 7 2009 5) 23:51:20 <_3b> yeah, didn't realize it was using a smart default instead of 0:) 23:51:41 3456792612? 23:51:59 Err... No, hang on... 23:52:28 well, from "34567.." it's obvious 23:52:32 Yeah. 23:52:37 But making the numbers come out is tricky. 23:53:02 <_3b> what's tricky aside from remembering to include the time zone? 23:53:09 1. try to count. 2. use binary search <-: 23:53:26 <_3b> 1. use decode-universal-time :p 23:53:27 Well, first is that the time zone seems to be a bit backwards. 23:53:50 Second is that decode-universal-time came up with 12, 10, 23, 16, 7, 2009, 3, T, 5. 23:54:36 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:54:47 And, really, I couldn't be bothered actually looking things up in the hyperspec. 23:55:19 eldoc mode is your friend 23:56:04 Yeah, so is doing things in a slime repl instead of just firing up sbcl from a command line. 23:56:20 -!- clows [n=clows@cpe90-146-210-193.liwest.at] has quit [] 23:56:40 But sometimes I want some time away from my friends for quiet contemplation and whatnot. :-P 23:57:38 (encode-universal-time second minute hour date month year [time-zone]) 23:58:05 Yeah, I -did- DESCRIBE it. 23:58:30 It's the decode result on the next obvious time after 3441397564 that threw me. 23:58:40 (Well, that and the polarity on the bloody time zones.) 23:58:56 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-245.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:59:18 Why can't we all just use UTC?