00:01:39 weirdo: No chance, I "wasted" my time too much already on stuff that I enjoy but that I actually haven't got the time for 00:02:46 trittweil, is it like 'never' or like 'few months'? 00:02:55 the latter 00:03:01 good enough 00:03:22 i've spent a lot of time without useful read macros so 'few months' is good enough :) 00:03:46 -!- mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has left #lisp 00:04:00 well, i could implement stuff from your TODO list and send diffs 00:09:26 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:09:27 -!- phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:11:44 Atherton [n=atherton@mathesar.kwzs.be] has joined #lisp 00:11:48 -!- repnop [n=Mage@adsl-69-225-13-63.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:12:11 leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has joined #lisp 00:12:27 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:12:29 -!- decafbad [n=mehmet@78.168.59.196] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:12:45 repnop [n=Mage@adsl-69-225-8-29.dsl.skt2ca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:52 weirdo: I'm not particular sure what items I really want. 00:16:03 So better don't 00:17:54 jxonas [n=jxonas@201.82.239.53] has joined #lisp 00:18:28 i don't feel like forking so guess waiting is the best bet 00:19:39 leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has joined #lisp 00:20:14 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:22:22 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 00:23:37 xdx [n=any@ppp85-141-201-150.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 00:23:45 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:24:28 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@160.79.78.72] has quit [] 00:24:48 weirdo: I'd be grateful for a test suite. 00:25:33 -!- xdx [n=any@ppp85-141-201-150.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has left #lisp 00:26:51 will do some time 00:27:19 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:30:52 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-015-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:22 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 00:32:26 jxonas_ [n=jxonas@201.82.239.53] has joined #lisp 00:33:28 -!- hfoo [n=h@p5B17CA2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:33:36 does anybody knows any java program using abcl as an extension language? 00:35:10 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:35:22 -!- ismith [n=chatzill@ip67-152-34-218.z34-152-67.customer.algx.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 00:35:30 jxonas_: I think there was this text editor that did, but I forget the details... 00:35:40 J 00:35:59 http://www.asl.dsl.pipex.com/symbolics/photos/IO/keyboard_6074.jpg 00:36:31 *madnificent* is jealous 00:38:24 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:38:46 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net/"] 00:39:00 -!- bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:09 sjbach_ [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:12 -!- sjbach [n=sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:39:17 bfein [n=bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:02 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:40:17 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:41:27 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-004-244.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:42:41 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r9fk63.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:43 I was having problems getting cl-couch to accept a key given as clump of lisp that needed to be eval'd so I had a look at the code and tried to add a method to handle it. I did (defmethod couch-urlize ((s list)) (eval s)) and it almost works except that the code I'm trying to evaluate contains a variable that's local to the place I'm calling it from and now I get an error that variable is unbound? 00:44:12 -!- jxonas [n=jxonas@201.82.239.53] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:44:24 fooquux [n=fooquux@dhcp-128-171-68-114.moore.manoa.hawaii.edu] has joined #lisp 00:44:30 (I think it's because the method is inside a different package to my code?) 00:45:44 -!- GrayMagiker [n=steve@c-68-35-128-231.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:45:46 -!- jxonas_ is now known as jxonas 00:46:19 ... But methods aren't -in- packages. 00:46:25 lispelot [n=lispelot@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:34 You've got two whole layers of indirection between methods and packages. 00:48:01 is there something in the sbcl sphere on influence that prints time as per RFC 822? I don't wanna write a FORMAT line that's already in there 00:48:05 OK well the error says something along the lines of "my-package::variable isn't bound", the method was created while in the other package and I thought that might matter? 00:48:59 kzar: It might. The current package when -compiling- the method can affect quite a bit. 00:49:51 nyef: I just evaluated the new method with slime-eval-last-expression, I'm not sure I compiled it 00:50:29 That brings to mind horrible thoughts of an interpreted-method-function class. 00:50:32 dankna [n=d@ool-43516bc9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:24 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:52:40 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@77.31.29.117] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:53:41 nyef: So the troublesome variable is a parameter to a function inside my package, do you know how I could stop the error? 00:54:19 kzar: are you trying to do something like (defun foo (x) (eval-elsewhere '(1+ x))) ? 00:54:54 pkhuong: Yea well I'm not totaly sure but I think so 00:56:00 sbahra [n=sbahra@77.31.29.117] has joined #lisp 00:56:03 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 00:56:09 kzar: that's never going to work. That's what lexical scope means. EVAL evaluates in the toplevel environment. 00:56:31 :) 00:56:36 pkhuong: So for this defmethod how would I say "if it's a list just eval it? 00:57:00 or ideally just have it pass the already evaluated stuff over 00:58:03 You can try doing something ugly like (eval-elsewhere `(1+ ,x)) (splice the variables' values in the expression). 00:58:25 why do you need that in the first place? 00:58:37 if you want to delay evaluation, use thunks 00:58:42 aka promises 00:58:55 if you want to extract free variables, use a code walker, e.g. cl-walker 00:59:09 weirdo: thunks are hard to serialize, and they're not also known as promises. 00:59:18 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:24 well cl-couch let's you pass stuff over like a key parameter so :key "Dave" would only return stuff with the key of Dave 00:59:27 I just had this horrible thought involving FUNCALL being a generic function specialized on its first argument... 00:59:49 but I want to say :key (some code..) and have that work 01:00:16 pkhuong: So when you say to splice it in what do you mean, how would I do that? 01:00:43 pkhuong, it could be done by expanding to `(make-instance 'serializable-form :fn ,form :source ',form) :) 01:00:48 then defining a fasl-dumper method 01:01:37 weirdo: where do you store the information needed to serialize and rebuild the environment? 01:01:37 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:01:53 pkhuong, cl-walker can scan for free variables 01:02:25 Is it really wise to store code in a database? 01:02:52 trittweil: That's... a matter of debate. 01:03:10 Also depends on what code you're trying to store and how. 01:03:29 I don't want to store code in the database :o 01:03:38 I do have three words for you, though. "SQL Stored Procedures". 01:03:38 1. that's much more interesting than `you can pass objects around'. 2. Even if you do that, you have to wrap your code from the toplevel to use cl-walker; knowing the set of free variables isn't enough. 01:03:45 I mean the database is likely to also contain user-submitted data.. so I seems like perfect creep for subtle security bugs.. 01:03:46 fusss pasted "doesn't this already exist somewhere?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73149 01:04:20 pkhuong, "wrap the code from the toplevel"? 01:04:52 is GMT+3 a valid TZ specification? 01:04:55 i'd serialize the free variables too 01:05:08 weirdo: do you serialize the free functions too? 01:05:12 fusss: Did you google? 01:05:16 trittweil: That would actually be the -last- of my concerns about using a DB to hold code. 01:05:37 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:44 minion: localtime 01:05:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``localtime''. 01:05:47 pkhuong, only if they're serializable :) otherwise, punt 01:05:48 minion: local-time 01:05:49 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 01:05:49 local-time: local-time is a development library for manipulating date and time information in a semi-standard manner. http://www.cliki.net/local-time 01:05:59 trittweil: of course, but time specs are so varied it's not even funny. rfc822 is massive and i thought why not "crowdsource" your debugging ;-) 01:06:31 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:06:34 pkhuong: bravo! thanks much. 01:06:39 weirdo: so I can't use local functions. 01:06:39 nyef: So what would be your first concern? 01:07:19 That it's a maintainance nightmare waiting to happen. 01:07:32 pkhuong, hmm... how about a serialible-labels macro? that would break declarations, thoug 01:07:33 h 01:07:37 (or local macros for that matter. And oh, hey, without support for local macros, I can't know the set of free variables either) 01:07:53 Any code stored in a database, in classical terms, needs to be backed up in a proper source control system, and the version in the database can't be the master copy. 01:08:12 nyef: Using a database sounds better to me than simply C-c C-c'ing ;) 01:08:12 Any other way of doing things is unprintably stupid, and happens in corporate environments all the time. 01:08:18 pkhuong, some implementations support macroexpand-all 01:08:28 even if not, not many people use environments in local macros 01:09:13 pkhuong: How follows that you can't use local functions? 01:09:25 trittweil: because weirdo won't serialize them. 01:09:29 (I did mention that I hate certain CRM systems, right? Siebel stores -everything- about the application in the database. Source control optional, and doesn't work half the time anyway.) 01:10:06 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-219.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:10:51 trittweil: it's possible to capture the environment ourselves and recreate an ersatz of it from a printed representation, but you need a codewalker that has access to all the local bindings (and can rename them) or a lot of help from the implementation. 01:10:55 Good night. 01:11:51 macroexpand-all should really be standard :( 01:13:03 weirdo: using &environment in local macros is a common idiom to make up for the functionality compiler-let provided 01:13:21 Hmm so looking at it there's a macro in my code before it goes to cl-couch, would there be a way to evaluate part of the stuff before it goes through to cl-couch? 01:13:22 what's compiler-let? 01:13:38 weirdo: what are the free variables in the lambda here? (defun foo (y) (symbol-macrolet ((x y)) (please-serialize-lambda () x))). This isn't about using the environment argument in macros. Even assuming that you can use macroexpand-all, that won't help with (flet ((foo ...)) (serialize-this-lambda (x) (foo x))). It also won't help you make the difference between free lexical variables (which you want to capture) and special ones (whi 01:13:41 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:46 a special-operator that was tossed out during standardization 01:14:23 pkhuong: you got truncated after (whi 01:14:41 presumably "(which you dont)" 01:14:51 ... difference between free lexical variables (which you want to capture) and special ones (which you don't). 01:15:07 pkhuong, references to undefvar'ed specials are undefined behavior anyway 01:15:44 and if there's serializable-flet, it could be walked as well 01:15:46 weirdo: 1. no (declare special) 2. so what? 01:16:15 weirdo: that won't work if a third-party macro generates code with flets or labels. 01:16:50 Couldn't we just agree that trying to go the serialization route in a portable manner just inevitably results in kludges? 01:16:59 pkhuong, what's the problem? just macroexpand-all everything before proceeding 01:17:05 lvllee [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:10 w 01:17:11 w 01:17:11 w 01:17:11 ww 01:17:12 w 01:17:12 w 01:17:13 w 01:17:15 i need to see if all major impls support macroexpand-all with an environment object 01:17:15 w 01:17:17 ww 01:17:19 w 01:17:21 w 01:17:23 w 01:17:25 w 01:17:25 hey, quit it 01:17:27 w 01:17:29 w 01:17:31 w 01:17:32 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8ac8-056.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:17:33 w 01:17:35 w 01:17:37 ew 01:17:39 qe 01:17:41 wq 01:17:43 e 01:17:43 /ignore lvllee 01:17:45 qwe 01:17:47 wq 01:17:49 e 01:17:51 wq 01:17:53 e 01:17:55 wq 01:17:57 eqw 01:17:59 e 01:18:00 drewc: ping 01:18:01 qw 01:18:03 e 01:18:05 qw 01:18:07 ewq 01:18:08 crod [n=cmell@cb8a6a-013.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:18:09 ewq 01:18:11 e 01:18:13 wqe 01:18:13 -!- loz [n=loz@163.c.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:18:15 qw 01:18:17 e 01:18:19 qw 01:18:19 Krystof: ping 01:18:21 e 01:18:21 weirdo: macroexpand-all won't give you access to the body of surrounding flets, nor will it let you know which variables are special. 01:18:23 qw 01:18:25 e 01:18:27 wq 01:18:29 e 01:18:31 wqe 01:18:33 qw 01:18:35 e 01:18:37 qw 01:18:39 e 01:18:41 wqe 01:18:43 wq 01:18:45 e 01:18:47 wq 01:18:49 eqw 01:18:51 e 01:18:53 qw 01:18:55 e 01:18:57 qw 01:18:59 eqw 01:19:01 e 01:19:01 hmm cl-walker uses sbcl's walker 01:19:03 qw 01:19:05 e 01:19:07 qw 01:19:09 e 01:19:11 and apparently other impls' walkers as well 01:19:11 wqe 01:19:13 qw 01:19:15 e 01:19:17 wq 01:19:19 e 01:19:21 wq 01:19:22 trittweil: damn right. The abstraction provided by closures then leaks all over the place in a really frustrating manner. 01:19:23 ew 01:19:24 but serializing lambdas has never been my own use case 01:19:25 qe 01:19:25 drewc / antifuchs: Ping? 01:19:27 qw 01:19:29 eqw 01:19:31 e 01:19:33 qw 01:19:35 e 01:19:36 Hmm what a cock 01:19:37 qw 01:19:39 eq 01:19:41 we 01:19:43 -!- lvllee [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:19:49 nyef: why aren't you op? 01:19:55 kkqkqwkq [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:57 w 01:19:58 and yeah, doing it portably is unpossible 01:19:59 e 01:19:59 Don't know. 01:20:01 qwe 01:20:03 qw 01:20:05 eqw 01:20:07 e 01:20:09 qw 01:20:11 e 01:20:13 wq 01:20:15 e 01:20:17 wq 01:20:19 e 01:20:20 Possibly partly because I never asked to be one. 01:20:21 wq 01:20:22 -!- kkqkqwkq [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:20:26 it's the same retard that changed the topic, probably 01:20:39 I looks like he's confusing his irc program with Vi 01:20:47 I thought that was ed? 01:20:51 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:20:59 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:21:21 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #lisp 01:21:22 vasvavas [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:25 weirdo: even with unportable extensions it's a lot of work to get even close to almost right. 01:21:26 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:21:28 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:21:32 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:21:35 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:21:41 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:21:49 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:21:52 pkhuong, yeah 01:22:30 why are there so many spammers in this channel? 01:22:36 -!- jxonas [n=jxonas@201.82.239.53] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 01:22:45 Why would you spam a blody chatroom 01:22:46 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:22:50 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:22:54 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:22:59 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:23:01 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:23:02 leo2007: Probably made it their new year's resolution to piss as many people off as they could... 01:23:07 not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi asshole not vi not vi asshole not vi assh 01:23:17 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:23 (Except that that doesn't hold water, there are almost certainly larger channels they could hit. 01:23:39 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:23:39 /ignore .*!.*@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net ; assuming regex syntax 01:23:42 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:23:42 just post how great windows is to slashdot if you are trying to do that 01:23:44 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:23:48 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:23:53 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:23:59 -!- lucca [n=lucca@kuu.accela.net] has left #lisp 01:24:02 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:24:17 vasvavas: Zhivago does not participate much in this channel nowadays. 01:24:22 better post how much anime sucks to 4chan *g* 01:24:25 you're kidding me? 01:24:36 No, I', not. Check the logs. 01:24:57 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:24:57 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDE NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING O 01:24:59 -!- vasvavas [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:26:02 ivkeke [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:05 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF Z 01:26:06 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF Z 01:26:08 -!- ivkeke [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:26:27 is there a way to do (macroexpand-2 ? 01:26:28 Someone needs a K-line. 01:26:30 kivlele [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:33 And I thought you had spine, would come back and apologize. 01:26:33 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF 01:26:35 NO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF ZHIVAGO AND HIS ANAL ATTITUDENO IM PISSING OFF 01:26:39 kzar: Just macroexpand-1 twice? 01:26:40 -!- kivlele [n=sadasd@c-71-206-214-81.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:27:04 nyef: well I tried that and it didn't work, gave the same output as doing it once which was wier 01:27:21 kzar: what should macroexpand-2 do? 01:27:44 luis: Well my macro expands to a call to another macro 01:27:59 kzar: Do you use Slime? 01:28:01 kzar: not in the first form, apparently 01:28:03 luis: So I wanted to see the code that is created through those two macros 01:28:13 trittweil: Yea I do 01:28:24 kzar: You can macroexpand with C-c C-m 01:28:34 kzar: And you can use C-c C-m within the Macroexpansion buffer again. 01:29:31 what's the speed of clojure like, compared to something like sbcl? 01:30:07 leo2007: On what task? 01:30:20 trittweil: Cheers 01:30:22 leo2007: It kindof depends on what you're doing, what platforms you're using, the optimization policies you set, etc. 01:31:00 nyef: assuredly, clojure is much faster at using Java libraries. 01:31:23 kzar: Even better, you can use C-_ or C-/ to undo the last expansion 01:31:25 Alternately, "what is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?" 01:31:45 for numerical computation 01:31:51 for example. 01:32:32 leo2007: Are you -trying- to get useless answers, or does it just seem that way? 01:33:00 lemongrass [n=asdasda@97.82.235.203] has joined #lisp 01:33:01 what do you mean? 01:33:15 -!- lemongrass [n=asdasda@97.82.235.203] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:33:18 netaust1n [n=austinsm@cpe-74-68-128-11.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:21 netaust1n_ [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:21 This isn't a case like comparing clisp to SBCL, where we can say "oh, clisp is a bytecode interpreter, so it's going to be slower generally, except for things like bignums where it's got very fast support, and will tend to use less memory due to the compactness of its instruction encoding." 01:35:44 pkhuong: What cool things could you use serializable closures use for? 01:36:17 We can't give generalities like that. 01:36:51 pkhuong: I can see it being cool to send closures over the wire.. 01:36:52 It -really- depends on what you wish to accomplish, how well you can optimize, what tricks you're willing to put into play, and actually doing the measurements yourself. 01:37:01 what if he meant "clozure", the answers would improve considerably 01:37:24 trittweil: not sure. For any sane use I can think of, using an explicit task object wouldn't particularly painful and probably better wrt future proofing. 01:37:39 future proofing? 01:37:58 you mean verification? 01:39:01 no, I mean being better at meeting future and potentially unforeseen needs. E.g. you can update the code to execute a task class and as long as the interface is the same, everything will work fine with the new version transparently. 01:43:45 -!- canuck11716 [n=cliffr@66.183.147.55] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:44:36 hey, SB-HEAPDUMP can serialize closures, can't it? 01:44:49 cliffr [n=cliffr@66.183.147.55] has joined #lisp 01:44:50 does it still work? 01:44:56 ... 01:45:10 Is there something like &pairs that works like &rest but instead of taking all the parameters as a list takes them as a list of pairs? 01:46:02 -!- antoni [n=antoni@208.pool85-53-19.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:46:35 -!- cliffr is now known as canuck11716 01:47:18 kzar: (defun foo (&rest args &key &allow-other-keys) ...) if you mean a plist 01:47:27 kzar: No, but you could use loop to achieve this fairly easily. 01:47:51 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:48:30 or DO, if LOOP is intimidating :) 01:48:41 Zhivago: Your groupies tend to be annoying. 01:48:51 Then beat them with a stick. 01:49:08 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A9E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:49:53 I don't refer people to this channel, so there's not a great deal that I can do about it. 01:50:09 thanks 01:50:47 -!- moocow [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:51:36 snog [n=a@dsl-205-218.madisontelco.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:39 -!- snog [n=a@dsl-205-218.madisontelco.com] has left #lisp 01:52:41 moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:52 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@cpe-74-68-128-11.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:55:24 nyef: thanks for info 01:59:06 jenks517 [n=jenks@69.246.82.48] has joined #lisp 02:00:27 -!- jlf` [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:02:56 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 02:06:17 woo almost got this thing working, I wrote it with a loop, (that macro expand hotkey rocks). One question, I do (loop for (key val) on params by cddr collect (list key val)) which returns the list of pairs fine, but I want to return a quote before each pair. Problem is if I quote the thing I'm collecting or the whole loop it stops stuff being evaluated 02:07:00 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:08:50 collect `'(,key ,val) ? 02:10:37 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:11:14 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-103-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:11:43 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c007h037.acad.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:12:35 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:13:52 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:39 -!- moocow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:15:52 any books/articles you recommend for data mining? 02:16:50 Introduction to Data Mining by Tan, Steinbach, Kumar seems reasonable. 02:17:07 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:11 thank you 02:17:57 some tin foil head suggested that CIA/NSA can discern identities on a forced-anonymity forum by analyzing the writing style 02:18:02 could that even be possible? 02:18:07 Maybe. 02:18:35 But it would unlikely without a *lot* of time and effort. 02:18:51 Statistical analysis can tell you a lot, actually. 02:18:59 nyef: Ah that did it, I actually realised though I want it to return `(key ,val) . I almost got it with collect ``(,,key ,,val)) but that returns `(,key ,val) but skipping the second , before key stops it being evaluated inside the macro 02:19:21 But the sample sizes need to be pretty large, so one-liner IRC stuff is almost certainly unreliable. 02:19:41 (Disclaimer: I am not a computational linguist, but I am a linguist.) 02:20:13 -!- mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:20:54 If anonymized identities remain stable, and there's a known population size, it might actually not require that much of a corpus. 02:21:17 -!- trittweil [n=rittweil@rayhalle1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:21:23 I guess I would be caught first because of all the stuff I can't spell 02:22:48 fooquux pasted "string splitter" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73152 02:22:53 I'm writing some code to split strings into tag & body pairs. 02:23:04 Can someone look at that and tell me why it's not doing what I want? 02:23:06 This is for your database thing? 02:23:11 fooquux, like gigamonkey's spam filter? 02:23:13 Yeah. 02:24:09 I want '(("\\tag1" . "body1") ("\\tag2" . "body2 body3") ("\\tag4" . "body4")). 02:24:55 And what are you currently getting? 02:25:08 still, trying all combinations would be, er, costly 02:25:14 ("\\tag1" . "body1") 02:25:23 Finally (return lines)? 02:25:28 that is, without any sample data 02:25:47 phone call, brb 02:25:58 This seems kindof convoluted for what the end result is. 02:28:03 Well, the first branch of the if handles the case where a line begins with a tag. 02:28:22 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28:26 The second branch appends the string to the body string of the previous cons. 02:29:02 Or should, but it's not. 02:29:49 Okay, first off, instead of "return lines", which executes unconditionally each time through the loop, use "finally (return lines)", which only happens once the iteration control runs out. 02:30:07 Next, your actual loop logic is kindof twisted. 02:30:43 How so? 02:31:46 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-ab6fd99243b57919] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:32:13 Well, with finally (return lines), now I'm getting "The value body1 is not of type LIST". 02:32:24 Yeah, hang on, trying something. 02:32:27 -!- rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:32:34 newers [n=grant@c-76-113-213-126.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:57 nyef annotated #73152 with "possibly-saner version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73152#1 02:35:17 OK I figure it out through trial and error: ``(,',key ,,val)) 02:35:29 Of course, this version breaks if the first line isn't one of those tag lines. 02:35:45 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:59 But, basically, you had two cases. Either a line was a tag line, or it wasn't. 02:36:48 And if you had a tag line, you wanted to accumulate something for output. 02:36:58 And if you -didn't-, you wanted to modify the last value accumulated. 02:37:26 Yes. 02:37:57 -!- lispelot [n=lispelot@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 02:37:59 So, if you have a tag, collect your alist entry, while holding a pointer to it just in case. 02:38:16 Let LOOP deal with the actual list accumulation mechanics. 02:38:16 So now the list is constructed using collect rather than doing it "by hand". 02:38:20 Yeah. 02:38:21 Gotcha. 02:38:35 Means you're not constantly walking the list for APPEND. 02:38:53 Cool, thanks. 02:39:04 Umm... Also, doesn't APPEND take two lists, not a list and another item to push on it? 02:39:12 Ah yes, that's right. 02:39:12 mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 02:39:17 I knew that, duh. 02:39:41 Out of practice? 02:39:51 Yeah, haven't written much Lisp for a long time. 02:40:36 Doesn't surprise me, TBH. For some reason I always thought your primary weapon was C++. 02:41:09 Actually, mostly just C. That's what I usually got paid to do. Either that or PL/SQL. 02:41:15 *fooquux* shudders. 02:41:15 Ahh. 02:41:27 Lisp has always been my hobby language. 02:41:43 I kept getting roped into server-side javascript, and some wierd non-MS VB junk. 02:42:02 VB is evil. It's the modern COBOL. 02:42:16 VB6 was great, though! 02:42:23 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 02:42:26 Heh. 02:42:47 It was certainly better than BASIC. 02:43:09 And perhaps FORTRAN, at least in syntax. 02:43:31 Applesoft basic had its moments, though. 02:43:56 rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:21 Yeah, it was pretty cool. I was sad when the world abandoned interactive interpreters. 02:44:32 Lisp made me happy again. 02:45:08 Hmm you know ' is the same as using the quote function, what is ` the same as? 02:45:49 It's backquote in scheme. I think it's unquote in CL? 02:45:56 it's not specified. 02:46:00 kzar: QUOTE isn't a function, and ` is... carefully unspecified. 02:46:22 Okay, it's called UNQUOTE in a few implementations I've seen, then. 02:46:28 I think it was called that in MACLISP too. 02:46:36 oh bugger well what if I can't use ` in my macro then? I probably shouldn't use undefined stuff right? 02:46:46 And it's also called BACKQUOTE, QUASIQUOTE, etc. 02:47:01 kzar: Its behavior is well defined, its implementation is not. 02:47:28 qmrw [n=avida@beigetower/jaene] has joined #lisp 02:47:39 Just remember that it doesn't have a real name, but you can use it reliably in any macro. 02:47:56 Or elsewhere, as a matter of fact. Its magic happens at read time. 02:48:11 cl-who's with-html-* tend to get shaddowed after a certain depth? 02:48:30 lambda [n=lambda@c-24-5-198-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:12 so what if instead of doing ,@(loop ...) to split up the list of lists the loop returns I want to return it as one list backquoted? I did `,(loop ...) but that doesn't work. I thought of doing (backquote ,(loop ....)) but backquote doesn't have a name like that 02:49:59 cmsimon [n=cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 02:50:18 -!- qmrw [n=avida@beigetower/jaene] has quit [Client Quit] 02:50:24 avida [n=avida@c-24-5-198-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:46 sbahra_ [n=sbahra@94.96.45.228] has joined #lisp 02:51:21 -!- avida [n=avida@beigetower/jaene] has quit [Client Quit] 02:51:50 -!- sbahra [n=sbahra@77.31.29.117] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:52:12 -!- sbahra_ is now known as sbahra 02:53:17 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:53:20 Oh duh, I misspoke previously. UNQUOTE refers to comma, [QUASI|BACK]QUOTE refers to `. 02:53:30 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:53:58 Anyway, it doesn't matter since you can't (shouldn't) call them directly. 02:55:46 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:48 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 02:55:50 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:56:52 (car '`(foo bar ,*standard-input* quux)) => SB-IMPL::BACKQ-LIST* 02:57:06 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:57:28 However, (car '`'(foo)) => QUOTE 02:57:35 cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:19 CCL: (car '`(foo bar ,*standard-input* quux))  LIST* 02:58:31 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:41 Yeah, but does CCL print that as backquote form? 02:58:46 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:20 Nope. 02:59:35 Didn't expect it could, with that. 03:00:09 SBCL has a pprint-dispatch set for its SB-IMPL::BACKQ-whatever to recreate the actual backquote form. 03:00:26 So do CLISP and ECL, apparently. 03:00:54 Well, ECL prints (CAR '(SI:QUASIQUOTE (FOO BAR (SI:UNQUOTE *STANDARD-INPUT*) QUUX))) 03:00:58 So it's not pretty. 03:01:04 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:01:42 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-235-98.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 03:02:29 Heh, GNU Emacs is too dumb, it just spits out \`. 03:04:02 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:04:21 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:21 -!- canuck11716 [n=cliffr@66.183.147.55] has quit [] 03:04:29 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-237.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:33 benny [n=benny@i577A0953.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:04:59 -!- newers [n=grant@c-76-113-213-126.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:05:20 How do I test whether I'm at an EOF without raising the END-OF-FILE condition? 03:05:35 Using read-line? 03:05:45 There are optional eof-error-p and eof-value arguments. 03:05:53 clhs read-line 03:05:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_lin.htm 03:06:12 Same with the other stream reading functions. 03:06:15 What's the start of the art for parsing HTML (not XML) in CL? 03:06:16 Durrr, I cannot read today. I'm already looking at that. 03:06:43 gigamonkey: closure-html or something, I think? 03:07:25 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:50 thansk. 03:08:07 gigamonkey: there's also cl-html-parse 03:09:24 fe[nl]ix: that being the Allegro library wrapped up. 03:09:25 ? 03:09:33 yes 03:10:35 gigamonkey: I'm glad you paid your ISP/hosting bill :P 03:13:21 -!- mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:23:05 z0d: the blog is actually working now 03:23:21 i still have some consy post-parameter handling to work out 03:24:04 if i knew it was that easy i would've done it long ago :-) 03:24:39 i still suck at database design, so maybe you can add the tagging stuff yourself later 03:26:04 RSS feed was the easiest part; (setf (html-mode) :xml) is the default, then cl-who:with-html-output-to-string (*s-o* nil :prologue nil :indent t) ..) 03:27:00 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:27:15 Okay, where do I find documentation of the :EXTERNAL-FORMAT types in SBCL? 03:27:38 cxml is being sucky with Lispworks right now, so i'm outputing my own hand-formatted xml. the rss compiler will get tied into the new-post submission handler. anytime a story is posted the rss.xml file gets recompiled. shouldn't be bad, given the low frequency of story posts. 03:28:16 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-52-157.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:35 Okay, I'm going to see about getting some sleep. 03:29:53 -!- nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["G'night all."] 03:33:16 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-148-198.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:36 felideon: wasn't me not payingn. There was some weirdness where the device connected to my swap disappeared and so the OOM killer started running amok. 03:33:40 Or so it seems. 03:33:41 fooquux: sb-impl::*external-formats* 03:33:50 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:34:31 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:34:42 riiight, documentation .. 03:35:12 gigamonkey: nice 03:35:44 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 03:35:47 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:56 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.6.160] has joined #lisp 03:39:39 Gotta say, love having drewc on call when things like that happen. I'd certainly never have figured it out. 03:40:29 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 03:41:08 hmm http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/228f3bde619747ef?dmode=source 03:42:41 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:42 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:52 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:29 Gotta say, I also love using Lisp to scrape the top-1000 baby names from the US SSA for every year from 1880 to 2007. 03:44:46 gigamonkey: what's #1? 03:45:17 whoever got hammered and thought rail-road diagrams were intuitive for easy to read? 03:45:29 s/for/or/ 03:45:30 gigamonkey: i mean.. is there any one that makes it on the top the most? 03:45:32 have you heard? SICP is a meme 03:45:34 http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1204660768/1-40 03:45:57 AHHHHHH I got it working and then realised the example I was working off was wrong, now I can't get it working the proper way. On the plus side I found out the answer to my previous question: SB-IMPL::BACKQ-LIST 03:46:02 *kzar* cries 03:46:54 kzar: Don't use SB-IMPL:: stuff in portable code. 03:47:01 A friendly reminder. 03:48:07 if sb-impl gets into your eyes, contact a medical professional immediately! 03:48:16 fooquux: yea I know 03:48:41 hey, that's a way for lisp to become popular - force a meme 03:49:01 I GOT IT 03:49:13 put brackets around stuff in pictures and a caption about lisp 03:49:26 weirdo: that would be a great meme 03:49:45 i mean, srsly, channers are reading SICP 03:49:52 check out http://dis.4chan.org/prog/ 03:49:53 actually no it's crap I just have gone a bit mad trying to get this macro working 03:50:19 bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:32 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 03:51:33 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:53:26 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:53:40 kzar pasted "AHHH kill me now" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73157 03:53:47 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:10 I almost got it but it's gone slightly fucked, any ideas? 03:54:32 felideon: hold on a sec 03:55:02 03:55:55 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:56:35 kzar, ',(loop ...) 03:56:38 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-148-198.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 03:57:14 but that shouldn't be a macro 03:57:20 it should be a function with a compiler macro 03:57:50 weirdo: I don't thing ', is going to work 03:58:21 weirdo: It changed a bit since before, I realised I was trying to make it expand to the wrong thign 03:58:44 yes it will 03:58:53 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:59:10 weirdo: Do you mean to replace `,,(loop with ',(loop ? 03:59:19 yes 03:59:21 but why not just 03:59:24 ok it didn't work 03:59:28 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:01:05 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:01:10 (defun couch-get* (path &rest params) (couch-request* :get *couchdb-server* path (append params '("application/json;charset=utf-8"))))? 04:01:16 ugh 04:01:21 missing nil last element 04:01:23 you get the idea 04:04:00 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 04:04:43 gigamonkey pasted "boy and girl names that have been #1" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73160 04:05:02 felideon: those numbers are the number of times each name has been in the top position. 04:07:17 What's the best no-op? 04:07:23 mornin' 04:07:35 (progn)? (values)? 04:07:58 good evening schme 04:08:16 That reminds me I should go home... :) 04:08:55 Yeeees. 04:08:56 :( 04:09:05 gigamonkey, around these parts it's said that child-name obscurity is inversely proportional to parents' sophistication 04:09:32 weirdo: that only holds if the parents are native English speakers 04:10:01 s/English/official-state-language/ 04:10:03 but yes 04:10:30 it's best to choose a name not easy to make jokes at 04:10:40 syamajal_ [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:41 saves some elementary school humiliation 04:10:58 Children will make *any* name into something humiliating. 04:11:40 gigamonkey: pretty cool 04:12:00 i don't think this holds true for common, short names with no diminutive form and/or obvious vulgar connotations 04:12:46 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:12:48 I want to test if a string is composed entirely of whitespace. 04:13:01 Is there any easy way to do this without getting out CL-PPCRE? 04:13:25 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:13:34 fooquux, "^\\s+$" 04:13:37 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:13:48 That's what I wanted to avoid. 04:13:58 regexps  two problems 04:14:00 easy way? hmm 04:14:04 -!- syamajal_ [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:14:06 Well what a great day for writing code! 04:14:09 Aha, STRING-TRIM. 04:14:11 sexps, come on! 04:14:46 (deftype whitespace () '(member #\Space #\Newline #\Return #\Linefeed ...)) 04:15:30 (string-trim '(#\Space #\Tab ...) string) => "" if string is all whitespace. 04:15:56 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:19 *Quadrescence* notes that we are now calling sexps "sexys" [sic]. 04:16:29 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:17:00 weirdo: have you read the Freakonomics guy's thing about kids names. 04:17:18 i did not 04:17:22 Basically in line with what you just said with the addition that the obscure rich-folks names trickle down and in a couple decades are totally trailer park. 04:19:03 perhaps bullies can judge kids' susceptibility to trolling 04:19:23 kzar annotated #73157 with "closer?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73157#1 04:19:26 -!- lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:19:28 but with good naming choice they might never get an occasion 04:19:39 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:20:02 weirdo: I went for your "use a function" idea, but problem is I'm still hitting the same problem trying to simplify it's usage with a macro 04:20:05 weirdo, are we talking about variable name choice? ;) 04:21:37 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:21:54 Okay, it's dark outside, time to bike home. 04:21:59 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@dhcp-128-171-68-114.moore.manoa.hawaii.edu] has left #lisp 04:22:01 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:35 kzar: can you show what you expect the expansion of the macro to look like? 04:23:11 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:16 gigamonkey: The same as it is there except without the ,SB-IMPL::BACKQ-LIST 04:23:37 how about 04:23:49 you take the initial macro you pasted 04:23:50 ,(loop for (key val) on params by 'cddr collect (list key val)) ? 04:23:54 fixed the free variable problem 04:23:58 then changed that loop thing to: 04:24:03 ',@(loop ... 04:24:23 er, no, that's not what you need 04:24:30 evening 04:24:33 The params argument to couch-get is a list, right? 04:24:41 And the elemenst of that list are supposed to be what? 04:25:06 sorry I noticed another bug, the output of the macro should be like the usage of the function 04:25:49 Then you want ,@(loop ...) 04:26:24 gigamonkey, you should mention non-keyword &key arguments in PCL :P 04:26:32 though the way you're using it you could also just use ,@params 04:26:41 none of new lispers who read PCL know it 04:26:58 weirdo: Ah. 04:27:18 and it's really useful for preventing MAKE-INSTANCE namespace pollution 04:27:53 weirdo: yeah. I'm not sure why I skipped that. 04:28:57 ha, i called FINALIZE-INHERITANCE many times without checking it the class' been finalized already... 04:28:59 bummer 04:29:24 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89.180.199.141] has left #lisp 04:29:30 kzar annotated #73157 with "Almost" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73157#2 04:30:25 kzar: have you looked at any the suggestions I gave you. 04:30:28 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:30:36 uea I used ,@ 04:30:41 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:43 Yea* 04:30:46 And the others you should head too. 04:30:47 heed. 04:31:19 For starters, tell us why you can't just say ,@params 04:31:26 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:32:06 gigamonkey: Because they are kind of key value pairs I want to make sure only every second param is evaluated 04:32:32 gigamonkey, hmm i thought your bayes could be useful to discern ownership of posts on forced-anonimity forums 04:32:51 So ,@(loop for (k v) on params by 'cddr collect `(',key ,value)) 04:33:56 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:34:05 weirdo: I suppose. 04:34:24 I'm sure the text classification people have ideas about that. 04:38:56 gigamonkey weirdo: it works! Thanks for the hand holding :D 04:39:31 (I learnt a couple of things too heh) 04:40:03 congrats. 04:40:11 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:40:26 kzar: one good thing to keep in mind about backquote is it can always be replaced with plain old lisp code using LIST, LIST*, APPEND, and QUOTE. 04:40:40 -!- jenks517 [n=jenks@69.246.82.48] has left #lisp 04:40:58 If you're having trouble with a complicated bacquote expression, write code that produces the expression you want. Then you might be able to translate it back into backquote. 04:41:44 gigamonkey: heh probably smarter than how I was doing it, putting a random mix of ' , and ` 's until it worked 04:43:10 yeah. And if you insist on going that route, remember to periodically strip off several layers of ` 04:43:30 Unless you are writing macro-defining-macros you're unlikely to need nested backquotes. 04:44:04 gigamonkey: I kind of did need it but then as weirdo pointed out using a function and then a macro dodged that need 04:45:37 wow, see the comment for sb-impl::backq-list 04:46:47 gigamonkey, nested backquote is horribly confusing 04:47:07 i still don't get why one needs to write ,', and not ,, for `` 04:47:38 wow... finally half-way through PCL (counting all the practical chapters) 04:50:26 good night all. 04:50:28 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:52:02 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:53:33 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:19 weirdo: I spent a bunch of time hand expanding backquote expressions according to the rules in the CLHS and never developed a good intuitive sense that would allow me to answer questions like that. 04:54:42 Of course, the whole point of backquote is to make it *easier* to write things. If it's harder then, well, don't do that. 04:58:34 maybe a compile-time backquote would help? 04:59:11 I think because it's this crazy exception I find it hard how it's going to behave in certain situations 04:59:14 dunno how scheme folk write their code 04:59:26 -!- l_n [n=shawn@tuxhacker/lordnothing] has quit ["foo"] 04:59:27 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 04:59:30 Like "what if I want to backquote a list but then display a comma in the list" 04:59:48 it doesn't seem to have logic too it, it confuses me 05:00:39 Not really sure how you could put something in writing that stops me being slow though heh 05:00:55 a comma? 05:01:00 pretty printer confuses you 05:01:05 (setq *print-pretty* nil) 05:01:19 -!- oklopol [n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Success] 05:01:30 no I pretty much get the idea of print pretty 05:01:41 it's to stop it munging stuff when you display it with format right 05:02:23 try this: '`(foo ,bar) with both prettiness values 05:03:14 '\, - that's a comma for you :P 05:03:46 i'd rather see a sensible backquote notation that makes ONCE-ONLY readable 05:03:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:04:49 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:14:39 cliffr [n=canuck11@66.183.147.55] has joined #lisp 05:17:10 hurray I just fixed the tiny bug I wanted to "just get done" before I went to bed about 6 hours ago 05:17:35 might as well stay up now heh... it's 5.30 anyhoo 05:18:36 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:01 wish I could say that, but I can't stay up for a week 05:21:01 hefner, memo from tcr: I think this (http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.slime.devel/8144) is one of the major annoyance you have with Slime. If that's the case, could I ask you to reply and say so? 05:22:14 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1E09C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:23 I'll have to think about that. 05:23:03 segv [n=mb@p4FC1C884.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:25 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:30:04 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:31:05 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:09 -!- dankna [n=d@ool-43516bc9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:31:35 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-219.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:36:27 mkdon [n=corlf@88-111-178-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 05:39:07 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:41:21 what's the correct way to count the highest occurring character in a sequence? 05:44:48 do you mean the most commonly occuring character? 05:45:34 yeah, most frequently occurring 05:46:39 -!- uriel09 [n=vicky@adsl-76-194-128-192.dsl.amrltx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:47:09 *hefner* can't think of a few-liner to do that which wouldn't be criminally inefficient and not the 'correct' way 05:47:55 mm same 05:48:54 Same here I thought going through each character, if it's not already in the assoc list add it wiht the value of 1, if it is increase the value by 1. Then finally loop through them all to find the one with the highest value and return it 05:49:06 Probably an awful way to do it though 05:49:35 that's basically it, but use anything other than an assoc list :) 05:49:47 heh 05:49:59 well, you don't need the second pass either 05:50:40 yea if you keep track of the best 05:50:44 and you have your choice of using a hash table or constraining the maximum character code and using an array 05:51:29 kleee [n=carnival@cable-213.214.43.204.coditel.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:38 -!- kleee [n=carnival@cable-213.214.43.204.coditel.net] has left #lisp 05:52:52 it's funny I often think of ways of doing stuff like this expecting it's a stupid way and it turns out pretty close to the proper way 05:53:04 right, i see yeah. i'll go with the hash table 05:53:10 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:16 thanks 05:58:19 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:02 hefner pasted "most frequently occurring character" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73163 05:59:25 although given how I've felt for most of the day, I've probably overlooked something obvious 06:00:11 oh nice. 06:06:29 or (let ((string "I hope they serve beer in hell")) (values-list (reduce (lambda (x y) (if (> (second y) (second x)) y x)) (map 'vector (lambda (char) (list char (count char string))) string)))) 06:06:38 mkdon: I think I've got some quicky probably insanely inefficient code lying around for generating ordered tables of n-graph frequencies (for n=1, would be table of character frequencies). What are you looking for? 06:07:11 ..if you don't care about performance 06:07:23 gigamonkey annotated #73163 with "Another way to find frequent char" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73163#1 06:07:52 That's probably just silly. 06:08:00 yours, or mine? 06:08:04 mine 06:08:41 mine too (O(N^2), and foiled by the indirect maximization problem again) 06:09:05 aja: nah it's fine, thanks :) 06:09:09 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:10:08 absolutely weird. two instances of the same browser, fetch the exact localhost url; one of them applies CSS and the other doesn't 06:14:21 Here's a really stupid one: (aref (sort (copy-seq text) #'> :key #'(lambda (ch) (count ch text))) 0) 06:15:30 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:15:39 I'm impressed. I should've abandoned reduce when I realized I couldn't use #'max (...) :key 'second 06:16:19 morning lispers 06:16:32 wow, nice gigamonkey 06:16:50 This is probably a more stylish version of the same idea: (first (sort (coerce *x* 'list) #'> :key #'(lambda (ch) (count ch *x*)))) 06:16:55 (I figured sort would be shorted, but I didn't think it would be that much shorter) 06:17:19 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-235-98.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 06:17:29 -!- greyface [n=greyface@188-144.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 06:18:25 z0d: i kinda like what i have so far 06:18:33 basic content submission functionality 06:18:43 I wan to create a cms with claw 06:19:00 the cms will be represented by a tree, 06:19:01 kiuma: i'm doing a blog in hunchentoot, at least since last night 06:19:12 :) 06:19:26 fusss, do you know magnolia ? 06:19:39 what is that? the flower? 06:19:49 fusss, also 06:19:51 :) 06:19:54 or the tom cruise movie? :-D 06:20:05 go to magnolia.info 06:20:06 Magnolia_(disambiguation) 06:20:26 why aref instead of char? 06:20:44 mkdon: no reason. 06:20:51 ok 06:21:33 fusss: I saw this on the Wikipedia page for pointer the other day and it made me smile: '"Pointer" redirects here. For other uses, see Pointer (disambiguation).' 06:22:02 the question is: since the cms is represented by a tree, in CL does a variable pointing to a tree (as hashmap) resides in ram ? 06:22:29 http://s5.tinypic.com/20jfyps.jpg 06:22:30 the tree vill contain binary data such as pdf and images, etc 06:22:42 8 hours of hacking and that's all i have to show for :-P 06:23:08 hehe 06:23:17 fusss, consider using claw 06:23:35 in the near future 06:24:03 i spent 2 months evaluating various lisp libraries, packages and tools and i have found a sweet spot for my needs right now 06:24:12 now it's time to hack for world domination 06:24:26 hehe 06:24:32 me too 06:25:01 I'm very tired of java, even if I eat quite well with it 06:25:12 i have a captive audience of 300 million people. _very_ underserved 06:26:09 300 milion ? you make it a bit easy 06:26:11 :P 06:26:52 anyway lisp is really good, now lispers need to create a market 06:26:56 i wrote a basic amazon service filter; amazon store strings ran through google translate, seo friendly links and a decent adword campaign. fucking insane. several thousand hits in a weekend. got scared and locked myself in a cold dark room. also went broke, thanks got raped by adwords fees. 06:27:06 We could sell lisp programmers. 06:27:48 kiuma: language groups. i'm ignoring the anglophones and ascii-enabled languages :-) ok, maybe not bahasa ;-) 06:28:31 Zhivago, I am sold myself, and even if I earn well, I'm bored of this situation too, I want to give solutions! 06:29:10 become a consultant :D 06:29:26 I am sold myself->consultant (that here means sw engeneer) 06:30:48 good morning. 06:31:13 morning tic 06:31:27 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:32:25 cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:36 heya kiuma. so what are your goals for claw? 06:34:11 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:38:10 hey tic 06:39:18 hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:39:26 -!- hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["leaving"] 06:39:37 hello, fussy. what are you up to? 06:43:30 tic, sorry a baby is a job, I'm understanding it just now :) 06:44:24 Yeah. I have a friend who's got that problem too 06:45:00 tic: goals for claw are nearly all achieved, that is: provice a O-O set of tools for creating web applications. 1) a modular application server 06:45:11 2) a web framework 06:45:24 gotta love qwerty phones; can't dial those mnemonic toll free numbers. had to google an image of a phone dial pad :-D 06:46:17 Hah. 06:46:34 3) a set of serveice that are needed from web apps. Currently I have session managers, loggers 06:47:58 tic, the cms is something that goes beyond claw. Playng with claw I've noticed that lisp forms are not very good to store data content 06:48:27 this is bettwer handled by a cms 06:48:32 *better 06:49:55 in one of my recent empoyments, I've got the occasion to play with magnolia, a cms written in java, that IMHO is far better then joomla, mambo & c. 06:50:20 I haven't seen any PHP app I liked. which aren't that many, granted, but still. 06:50:38 tic, me too 06:50:51 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 06:51:25 tic, I need to build the cms so that I can then put content for claw-central.org (that for now is only an address) 06:52:21 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:15 yoeljacobsen1 [n=yoeljaco@emetdsl.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 06:57:05 oklopol [n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 07:04:24 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:27 fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:49 tihonov [n=kef@kefeer2.convex.ru] has joined #lisp 07:10:31 is it me or are those $5/month e-mail redirectors crap? for $10 a YEAR i can get my own domain name and configure email redirecting on the damn domain seller website, and it would be my own name. plus i can always start a site and move my dns records to my own server or a cheap/free dns host. 07:10:33 good morning 07:10:45 pobox.com gotta rethink what they wanna do in life 07:11:50 fusss, agreed. 07:12:05 What character is ^M in SBCL? 07:12:37 Do I just have to refer to it as #x0d? 07:14:43 Ah, it's #\Return. 07:15:05 Yup. 07:15:13 -!- Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:15:14 fusss, it's exactly what I've done (wingstech.it, wingstech.com, claw-central.org ) 07:15:58 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 07:16:46 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.242.168] has joined #lisp 07:17:22 and nobody buy phone cards online from zaptel. i was too lazy to drive to 7/11 and decided it might be fast to buy online. they charged my paypal and said they would call me back to "verify". that was 30 minutes ago. i could've been done talking and back to watch my Hitler movie (Der Untergang) 07:17:25 hey, quick pointless poll, between the linuxes and the bsds, is there one flavor of *nix which you guys have found to be more accomodating to use with lisp? 07:17:57 Both Linux and Mac OS X. 07:17:58 cads: I don't know if it's better for Lisp but I use Ubuntu. 07:18:00 cads: slackware has been accomodating this grumpy fussy bastard since 1998 07:18:43 By dint of being more popular, Loonix usually wins. 07:18:59 at one point i upgraded a single server, manually, between three major releases before i retired the poor Duron box 07:19:41 Let's get back on to topic folks..which is Gentoo Supoort. There is #gentoo-chat 07:19:48 Support 07:20:02 opps 07:20:07 n/w 07:20:12 to bed 07:20:19 Wrong channel? 07:20:27 yet weirdly apropos 07:20:31 yeah :*) 07:23:06 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-31-5.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 07:27:32 Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 07:27:52 What's people's favorite no-op in CL? 07:28:06 beach [n=user@58.186.166.9] has joined #lisp 07:28:06 (values)? (values nil)? (progn)? 07:28:07 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 07:28:10 Good afternoon. 07:28:10 brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 07:28:31 Good evening beach. 07:28:33 Hi, beach! 07:28:40 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:28:50 fooquux, why do a no-op? (values) if you don't want to return anything from a function, including nil. 07:28:52 hey beach 07:28:59 goodmorning beach :-) 07:29:08 Just curious. I use (values). 07:29:28 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:29:29 but when would you use a no-op? I don't get it. 07:29:50 the THEN clause of an if? 07:29:53 -!- MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has left #lisp 07:29:54 In a spot where you don't care what happens. Like in a "whatever" branch of an if. 07:29:57 Yeah. 07:30:02 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.250.26] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:30:11 Then you should use UNLESS instead. 07:30:21 (you do know that the ELSE clause of an IF is optional, right?) 07:30:27 Yes, of course. 07:30:36 or rather, WHEN, wasn't clear what you were referring to. 07:31:09 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.134.152] has joined #lisp 07:31:09 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 07:31:29 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:24 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.242.168] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:42:02 is there anybody here that know some place that indicates how to store and navigate big data trees ? (leaves may be array of binary data too) 07:42:37 kiuma: what kind of trees? 07:42:56 beach, like a file system 07:43:16 kiuma: specifically for file systems, you can read any book on operating systems essentially. 07:43:34 like = similar!!!! 07:43:38 :) 07:43:48 In that case, try a good book on data structures. 07:44:09 do you have any suggestion ? 07:44:37 Aho, Hopcroft and Ullman, but it's a bit dense. 07:45:28 beach, Ullman (remembers me something, I don't remember precisely) 07:46:11 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@120.pool85-54-87.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 07:46:28 beach the fact is that magnolia cms stores the cms into a tree, I want to do the same 07:46:31 kiuma: If you are storing things according to a key, you can use the Wikipedia to search for B-trees, 2-3-trees, binary search trees, AVL trees, red/black trees, AA trees. 07:46:54 kiuma: And skiplists. 07:47:31 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:47:51 beach: I've found this... http://cddb.sai.msu.su/~megera/postgres/gist/ 07:48:56 and this could come in help 07:48:58 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 07:48:58 OpenFTS 07:50:52 Gaah. For some reason I can never remember this. string -> number in Lisp? 07:51:36 leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has joined #lisp 07:52:44 parse-integer 07:52:51 umm 07:53:18 i vaguely recall hearing there was some connection between red-black trees and 2-3-trees 07:53:43 dat true? 07:53:54 rlpowell: or read-from-string, don't know which one is more idiomatic though 07:53:55 mega1 [n=mega@3e70d7b6.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:54:05 like, them being equal, or something like that 07:54:14 benny: Thanks. 07:54:19 Yeah, I think a red-black tree is essentially just a 2-3-tree where the nodes are stored as a linked list of siblings. 07:54:39 or was it 2-3-4-trees? 07:54:42 something like that. 07:54:53 i would have to get my intuition about red-black trees back to see it, kinda lost it over the ...year 07:54:58 Wow. read-black trees takes me *way* back. :) 07:55:20 > 12 years now since my formal CS classes. 07:55:35 I personally do not buy the arguments I read in favor of red/black trees in favor or 2-3-trees. 07:55:39 they were the only purely algorithmic thing that i ever actually found hard to program 07:55:59 I remember being very impressed with them. 07:56:03 But that was ages ago. 07:57:06 rlpowell: first "ages", then "12", the other way around you're first telling us you're old, then demonstrating it by repeating yourself ;) 07:57:35 Heh heh. 07:57:55 *oklopol* escapes now 07:58:01 beach: http://www.cliki.net/spatial-trees :D 08:01:16 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 08:02:48 Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 08:03:00 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@120.pool85-54-87.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:03:06 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:04:14 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.169.62] has joined #lisp 08:05:29 Arrr!!! $90-> http://www.amazon.com/R-Trees-Applications-Information-Knowledge-Processing/dp/1852339772/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231229056&sr=8-1 08:05:39 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:05:53 FWIW, you can stop amazon URLS after the first big number string. 08:07:39 eevar2 [n=jalla@195.1.147.242] has joined #lisp 08:08:39 rlpowell, thx 08:08:41 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@195.1.147.242] has quit [Client Quit] 08:08:50 But yeah, textbooks are expensive. 08:09:15 <_3b> borders.com seems to like giving out 30% off 1 item coupons if you get on their mailing list, which can be nice for stuff like that if you aren't in a hurry (and if they have it to begin with) 08:09:20 rlpowell, is there any free source, even an introduction ? 08:09:32 I have no idea; never seen that book before. Sorry. 08:11:08 rlpowell, about rtrees I mean 08:11:22 Oh. 08:11:28 No, I don't, sorry. 08:11:49 I mean, there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-tree , but I'm assuming you could have found that. 08:12:10 Hmm, my project was approved for hosting but the e-mails have not yet arrived from cl.net. I wonder if that's normal. 08:13:03 The cl.net stuff has humans behind it, and takes A While. IME. 08:14:18 Okay. It's just that the approval e-mail said "you should have received several e-mails", and that was 14 hours ago, so it threw me a bit. 08:14:43 rlpowell, yep and it's to little to start with, it only shows the rtrees are usefull 08:15:11 <_3b> kiuma: tried searching on google scholar? 08:15:22 not yet 08:15:28 Oh dear. OSNews decided Lisp is cool again so it's running an article on newLISP. 08:16:53 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 08:17:23 we should rename Common Lisp to NewNewLisp .. then it'd be the new lisp 08:17:35 Heh. 08:17:43 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@vpn-21544.vpn-s.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 08:18:16 _3b, found something thx 08:18:33 ..or just fork SBCL; whatever 08:18:47 I like the "just". ;-) 08:19:09 oh? i have a git repo right here .. license should be no problem .. 08:19:22 :P 08:19:28 Okay, I guess it's a "just" if all you do is rename it. :-P 08:20:08 SALIENT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SBCL AND NEWNEWLISP: * The name. * See above. * See the first point. 08:20:15 hehe 08:21:09 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:22:15 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 08:24:18 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:25:12 -!- Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:25:25 databases and sql is crazy dumb stuff .. i'm stuck x) 08:25:40 (random note ...) 08:25:42 heh 08:30:27 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:32:19 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 08:32:58 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:33:18 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 08:37:20 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.135.58] has joined #lisp 08:39:40 aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:44:19 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:38 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 08:47:43 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:30 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 08:50:33 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@vpn-21544.vpn-s.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:52:27 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 08:55:21 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.134.152] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:57:43 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:58:52 xinming [n=hyy@218.73.137.219] has joined #lisp 09:00:19 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:39 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:00:56 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:03:04 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:03:25 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 09:03:39 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has left #lisp 09:11:02 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA1E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:11:35 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.135.58] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:14:37 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:16:00 I've found http://www.amazon.com/R-Trees-Applications-Information-Knowledge-Processing/dp/1852339772 at 74.00 09:16:27 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-52-157.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:16:40 It seems to be well written even if a bit short. I wonder if there is also the ebook version 09:16:59 this could be my auto xmass gift 09:17:20 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:27 -!- tihonov [n=kef@kefeer2.convex.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:21:41 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:22:53 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:27:02 antoni [n=antoni@106.pool85-53-16.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 09:28:09 eevar2 [n=jalla@195.1.147.242] has joined #lisp 09:28:24 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@195.1.147.242] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:28:25 ironChicken [n=richard@158.223.161.178] has joined #lisp 09:28:25 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:28:27 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-105-14.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:28 eevar2 [n=jalla@239.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:27 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:32:41 finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-33.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:42:23 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:42:50 kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 09:47:59 decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.52.124] has joined #lisp 09:49:57 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 09:50:46 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:51:03 -!- beaumonta [n=abeaumon@120.pool85-54-87.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:51:31 Thas1 [n=weechat@97-113-39-103.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:48 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@120.pool85-54-87.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 09:52:29 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:18 -!- cliffr [n=canuck11@66.183.147.55] has quit [] 10:00:22 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 10:03:01 -!- finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-33.xnet.hr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:03:30 -!- Thas [n=weechat@97-113-32-146.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:00 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:07:21 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:03 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:11:25 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:03 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:25 -!- dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has quit [] 10:13:36 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a6a-013.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 10:13:55 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:15:14 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:16:35 cliffr [n=canuck11@66.183.147.55] has joined #lisp 10:16:57 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:17:47 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 10:18:15 finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-69.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 10:19:36 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 10:19:46 Anyone else get "Connection reset by peer" socket errors from Hunchentoot intermittently? 10:20:09 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:20:53 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E737.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:06 -!- decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.52.124] has left #lisp 10:21:35 mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has joined #lisp 10:21:45 kzar: yes, you can usually ignore them. we failed to squelch the error message in the last release, will be fixed. 10:22:01 kzar: what it means is that the web browser has closed a http connection, which is normal behaviour 10:23:03 stassats [n=stassats@ppp91-122-106-82.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 10:23:47 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-31-5.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:25:15 H4ns: Hmm well it didn't happen at all for the first day or two of me using this server and now it's suddenly happening like every other request? 10:25:50 -!- kenjin [n=kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:25:52 kzar: so? 10:26:21 kzar: do you see any other bothersome behaviour, other than the error message? 10:26:46 H4ns: So that seems like a pattern that something is getting worse? I mean when that error shows it's all that shows on the page so It's a fairly bad problem 10:27:20 kzar: the "connection reset by peer" message appears in the html that is sent to the client? 10:27:52 H4ns: Yea exactly, it's a full error message debugging text like you would get in slime except not interactive 10:28:56 (I tried setting *CATCH-ERRORS-P* to nil and then it always happens but instead of showing the user the error it comes up in slime) 10:29:01 kzar: are you using a database by chance? 10:29:13 H4ns: Yea I'm using couchdb 10:29:17 kzar: ok, so the error comes up in slime and you can debug there. 10:29:52 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-49-95.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:30:05 H4ns: Yea when I set the *CATCH-ERRORS-P* to nil. But it has the disadvantage that it stops the webpage working 100% of the time 10:30:20 kzar: your couchdb connection is disconnected, your handler fails to handle that error and hunchentoot's default handler displays it to the user. that is my guess. you need to use the slime debugger to find out why couchdb disconnects you, and maybe also set up better error reporting so that your users see a more helpful message. 10:31:40 -!- cliffr [n=canuck11@66.183.147.55] has quit [] 10:32:17 How can I know the path of the file? ex) When I exec /tmp/test.lisp, how can I get the path "/tmp/test.lisp" from the lisp program in that file? 10:32:47 tomoyuki28jp: you "exec" /tmp/test.lisp? how? 10:32:51 *manuel_* has won the price of ugliest lisp program ever 10:32:52 again... 10:33:14 manuel_: i did not found your euclid stuff particularily ugly, but show us the code! :) 10:33:28 http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/cube.lisp 10:33:31 that's the "ok" part 10:33:46 leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has joined #lisp 10:33:54 that's the "aw whatever" part: http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/moves.lisp 10:34:00 eek, a milling dsl! 10:34:23 and that's the part i didn't understand 5 minutes after writing it 10:34:24 H4ns: OK, I get you, where would I setup a handler though? 10:34:39 but it works :) 10:34:42 kzar: in your handler function would be a good place. 10:35:10 that's the "aw whatever" part: http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/gcode.lisp <- magic 10:35:31 H4ns: well, the exec file is compiled one. I wanna know a way to get the path of file which the program is written. 10:35:33 H4ns: I haven't ever made one before so that's kind of my question, how or where would I put that? 10:36:34 tomoyuki28jp: *compile-file-pathname* and/or *load-pathname* are for you 10:36:45 tomoyuki28jp: there are also truename variants, look in the spec 10:37:00 kzar: erm, you do have a handler function that creates your pages, don't you? 10:37:02 H4ns: thanks a lot! 10:37:05 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@120.pool85-54-87.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 10:37:15 manuel_: uhhh, a comment! 10:37:26 H4ns: ah, think i should remove it? 10:37:56 manuel_: it stands out a little, as if it was saying something of utter importance! 10:38:09 i've got a second one in moves.lisp 10:38:38 H4ns: Well at the moment it goes something like dispatcher points to function, function returns the page 10:38:59 kzar: the "function" that you mention is your handler 10:39:14 kzar: (handler in the http sense, now install a signal handler there) 10:39:24 H4ns: i love how that code has the potential to fuck shit up in real life as well 10:39:36 manuel_: cute! do you control the mill from lisp directly? 10:39:45 H4ns: through the nc interpreter yes 10:39:58 i only execute it while wearing my protection goggles 10:40:01 hehe 10:40:11 *g* 10:40:16 http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/cnc-cube.jpg 10:40:20 but that's what comes out of it 10:40:37 parts made by lisp! i'm impressed! 10:41:04 i'll scale it to 15x15x15cm today 10:41:11 and add lightning inside 10:41:13 just ordered 100 attiny13 10:41:35 manuel_: preparing for next christmas already? 10:41:40 hehe 10:41:54 the idea is to have wooden casings for the devices, and when you're done unpacking, you flick a switch and have a lamp 10:42:08 H4ns: Do you know where I could read about how to use signal handlers? 10:42:37 kzar: i'm sure pcl has a section on signals, otherwise look up handler-case in the spec 10:42:58 H4ns: OK thanks 10:43:23 nostoi [n=nostoi@193.153.165.103] has joined #lisp 10:43:36 manuel_: that'll certainly give you an edge! 10:43:48 -!- ironChicken [n=richard@158.223.161.178] has left #lisp 10:45:01 -!- yoeljacobsen1 [n=yoeljaco@emetdsl.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:46:01 yoeljacobsen1 [n=yoeljaco@emetdsl.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 10:47:31 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:51:22 sunkencity_ [n=sunkenci@h121n2c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:53:47 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@120.pool85-54-87.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:56:18 Cronos [n=a@5ad1b2aa.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:16 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-49-95.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:01:10 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:01:54 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@193.153.165.103] has quit ["Verlassend"] 11:04:38 Xof [n=crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 11:05:07 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 11:12:04 -!- finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-69.xnet.hr] has quit ["..."] 11:13:41 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #lisp 11:15:19 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:16:34 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 11:22:32 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:22:44 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 11:26:52 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B4DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:29:01 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 11:31:53 c 11:32:13 d 11:32:41 Ya baby. 11:33:39 debugger invoked on a UNBOUND-VARIABLE in thread # 11:35:50 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 11:37:36 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:42:04 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:42:15 http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1231217531/1-40 see #5 11:46:18 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 11:46:18 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 11:46:18 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 11:47:42 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:48:39 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:48:47 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [] 11:51:00 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 11:51:39 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:13 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:53:20 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:53 lispelot [n=lispelot@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:10 weirdo: While I largely agree with item #5, and I think it was interesting of you to point it out, I would prefer that you add a small summary to the URL when you post it here, so as to avoid that everyone has to follow it, only to discover that it is not interesting to them. 11:55:10 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:55:25 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:59:07 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:59:35 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:00:46 weirdo: only read the first part of #5, but it suddenly made me think of punkers shouting loudly 'punk is not dead' 12:01:18 Someone compare lisp and stack-based langs. 3 2 1 go! 12:01:25 -!- Thas1 is now known as Thas 12:01:51 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xof 12:02:03 Quadrescence: (> lang:+CL+ lang:+stack-based+) ; there you go 12:03:21 ; Would you be mad if I said this returned NIL? 12:03:29 wow someone's making a SICP-based dating sim 12:03:57 Quadrescence: do you have any idea how uninteresting you are? 12:04:02 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0953.versanet.de] has quit [No route to host] 12:04:07 Quadrescence: as long as it doesn't return nil in my package, it's all fine by me :) 12:04:21 Xof: I really don't have any idea, to be quite honest. 12:05:24 Hey Xof! What's up? 12:05:29 i think all the cheers belong to weirdo for starting this interesting, stimulating and refreshing discussion! 12:05:46 Quadrescence: I at least would prefer it if you contributed interesting argument and observations, rather than making demands that the channel should turn to your topic 12:05:58 beach: back at work. I should probably look at the reviews 12:06:17 robyonrails [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:06:25 Xof: Maybe you are correct. 12:06:53 Xof: That would be good. I will do the same, but I am a bit busy trying to take care of lots of stuff while I am here anyway. 12:08:16 Xof: I suspect that they have decided here that they like working with the Bordeaux people (more so than with the other Frenchies coming here), so they constantly suggest we take care of more things. 12:08:38 Xof: Seeing what I have seen, I can't blame them. 12:11:02 GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-1-137.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:22 Xof: Today I got a 1h speech about how I should convince my wife to move here for a few years. I am afraid that won't happen. 12:11:34 (say "hello all") 12:11:41 Hello GrayMagiker 12:12:18 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:13:32 *schme* has been driven insane by ffi madness. 12:14:10 beach: are they fond of lisp in Bordeaux? (A friend of mine did some college-work there and he was coding lisp too) 12:14:10 *beach* doesn't use xFFIs. 12:14:29 *GrayMagiker* is just learning lisp himself, but is convinced it is the one true way to program. 12:14:41 beach: Hey that's actually a good idea you have there. I could just look up the protocol API and avoid the FFI. 12:14:42 madnificent: Really? What's the name of that person? 12:14:58 GrayMagiker: Congrats. 12:15:33 schme: ty. 12:15:39 madnificent: If by "they" you mean "beach" (and a small crowd in charge of a few courses), then yes. 12:16:02 I only work for my father, but I moved our project from C to Lisp 12:16:13 Excellent! 12:16:17 GrayMagiker: That sounds impressive :) 12:17:16 madnificent: We currently have two Lisp-bases courses in the undergraduate program. One is a programming course of 6 credits (ECTS) in the fall of the third year, and the other is a programming-project course in the spring of the third year. 12:17:25 hoh.. this looks like a ball of fun. Maybe I'll just stick with going crazy from the FFI. 12:17:42 Meh. Not as impresive as it sounds, I am sure. I just said "Lisp would be better, 'old man'. 12:18:26 beach: perhaps I should see to study abroad. We don't have lisp courses :P 12:19:31 madnificent: You are hereby accepted into one of our programs. (I will tell you which one once you submit a CV). 12:19:56 Neither do we (University of New Mexico CS Minor) but it didn't stop me. 12:20:08 GrayMagiker: That's the spirit (: 12:21:16 Well since we are the only two people in the company, and he is the only one that bills to contracts, he agreed and I did what needed to be done. 12:21:24 beach: I think I have to do something like that in a year and a half. So I may contact you about it then 12:21:41 madnificent: Sounds good! 12:22:17 beach: apparantly, you were right about whom he was working for :) 12:22:36 madnificent: I thought so. There are only so many candiates. 12:24:17 and much more projects to work on? (yes would be rather pleasant for me right now) 12:24:20 madnificent: My friend and colleague (and former student) Marie is very good at finding research money and attracting talented students to work on her Lisp-based Bioinformatics projects. 12:24:59 beach: is there some info to be found about it online? 12:25:04 bioinformatics? 12:25:05 madnificent: Not sure what you are asking. Do you want me to give you some work to do at a distance, or do you want to come to Bx to work on something? 12:25:32 *GrayMagiker* would like to meet this 'Marie' 12:25:35 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:25:41 Everyone would! 12:25:50 GrayMagiker: Well, you know, CS is taking over pretty much every other discipline as they run out of their traditional methods. 12:25:52 lol, indeed 12:26:00 that will not only depend on me, I'm affraid. (if about the link, any info will do) 12:26:04 GrayMagiker: I'll introduce you if you like. 12:26:22 madnificent: Hold on, I'll look for info... 12:26:39 beach: you are too kind, my friend. 12:28:05 *GrayMagiker* is afraid `Marie' would find him boring and uninteresting. 12:28:20 madnificent: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~beurton/ but it's all in French. 12:28:47 GrayMagiker: That is something you have complete power to change, though. 12:29:20 Je pare France, mais je ne pare pas bein. 12:29:40 Impressive! (sort of; like my Vietnamese) 12:29:52 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:55 pjb- [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:30:02 beach: in case my french isn't up to par, I'd still have a chance? (I do understand some french (I can read the page for instance)) 12:30:08 *parle (and other french spelling errors.) 12:30:11 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:30:27 madnificent: None of my friends is a language bigot. You'll be fine. 12:31:10 madnificent: Studying in France you would just find yourself a French partner (easy!) and spend the first year becoming a "native" speaker. 12:31:16 -!- lasts [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:31:57 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:32:02 -!- pjb- [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:32:02 nice (feeding time now) see you later 12:32:16 madnificent: Besides the president of the university has recently told us that we have to have a complete offering in English or else... 12:32:43 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.143.10] has joined #lisp 12:32:44 Does anyone know what debian packages one needs to install to get clisp to build with FFI support? 12:32:57 Well if you need help with english, we are here 12:33:01 pjb- [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:33:37 My fiancee speaks French (and English) better than I do. 12:33:46 lol 12:34:19 -!- galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:34:20 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:34:27 GrayMagiker: Me? English is my second "native" language, and rapidly becoming the first. The trick would be to get my French colleagues to teach in (an understandable approximation of) English to French students. 12:35:40 beach: It would be easier to archive if US entities would finance private universities in France. 12:35:51 galdor [n=galdor@bur91-2-82-231-160-213.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:22 pjb-: Let's not go there, OK? At least not now that I am enjoying a quiet dinner by myself at the hotel restaurant with a decent bottle of Italian Cabernet that happens to be sort of reasonably priced. 12:37:49 :-) 12:37:54 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:38:19 -!- pjb- is now known as pjb-- 12:38:21 -!- GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-1-137.albq.qwest.net] has left #lisp 12:38:45 GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-1-137.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:01 -!- pjb-- is now known as matimago- 12:39:27 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:39:27 -!- pjb is now known as Guest72259 12:39:30 -!- matimago- is now known as matimago-- 12:39:45 -!- matimago-- is now known as pjb 12:40:39 Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:40:43 -!- GrayMagiker is now known as GrayMagiker_drun 12:41:28 -!- GrayMagiker_drun [n=Twilight@75-173-1-137.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:41:51 catnap [n=tommi@hoasnet-fe30dd00-48.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:42:13 what is the difference between (a b) and (a . b)? 12:42:37 (a b) == (a . (b . nil)) 12:42:38 catnap: (a b) = (a . (b . nil)) 12:42:53 pjb: you beat me! 12:42:58 ;-) 12:43:01 10.8, if a = 1 and b = 2 12:43:29 *sigh 12:43:38 no? 12:43:50 -!- Guest72259 [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:43:54 somebody needs to invent toss-a-tomato-over-ip 12:44:18 lispelot: be tolerant! Xof had to go back to work recently. 12:45:12 well, i suppose that depends on the work, but all is forgiven under those circumstances 12:45:28 writing and proofreading exams 12:45:34 but if the second element in (a . b) can be a list, isn't it wastefull to use it for integers and floating point numbers as well? 12:45:38 in parallel with C++ development 12:45:46 become an academic! It's oodles of fun! 12:45:50 Xof: in that case i am so deeply sorr 12:45:59 Xof: I'm a CS master's student =) 12:46:01 Xof: what a rude awakening! 12:46:23 catnap: when you have only two data item to store, indeed the cheapest way is to (cons a b). 12:46:24 Xof: But I make sure to have at least two real jobs simultaneously to keep my sanity 12:46:57 catnap: but if you have more, or a variable number of them, a list is better, and one slot of overhead is little waste. 12:47:12 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:01 catnap: also, you may want to distinguish between nil used as an element or as a marker for the end of list. 12:48:41 pjb: that sounds complicated - is't really necessary? 12:48:59 (a . nil) represents both (a) and (a . nil), that is, a list of one element, or a pair of two elements. If you always use lists, (a nil) == (a . (nil . nil)) is not confused with (a . nil). 12:49:43 Well, it's not really necessary, you can always use lists, and ignore the last cdr slot. 12:50:04 Use: list, first, rest, endp. 12:50:16 Don't use cons, car, cdr, null. 12:50:39 so what's the error margin for a metacircular LET? 12:50:45 so ((nil . nil) nil) will be the same as ((nil . nil) . (nil . nil)) 12:50:57 Yes. 12:50:57 does it have to bind globally special symbols correctly? 12:51:00 weirdo: I would say around 37. 12:51:20 beach: that looks reasonable 12:51:23 -!- xinming [n=hyy@218.73.137.219] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:51:32 mvilleneuve: thanks, plus or minus one or two. 12:51:37 sure 12:51:52 mvilleneuve: did you get any snow? 12:51:55 Of course, error margins have their own error margins. 12:51:59 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 12:52:00 In Paris, we do. 12:52:10 beach: just a little, it's all gone now 12:52:38 this means that if I wan't to cut the secuence short on element 3 (setf (get 'sequence 3) nil) won't do 12:52:41 mvilleneuve: phew! The secretary here is coming to Bx end of January; she is scared! 12:52:42 beach: but it's really cold outside (at least by local standards) 12:52:44 Ah, lovely France. Just four days left. 12:53:03 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:53:07 tic: where are you now? 12:53:29 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 12:53:53 does anybody know spatial-trees ? 12:54:03 kiuma: Xof does 12:54:14 jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has joined #lisp 12:54:29 mvilleneuve, I'm in Gothenburg, Sweden. Heading for Val d'Isere! 12:54:38 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 12:54:48 tic: ah, ok 12:55:00 Xof, are you here ? 12:55:07 yes! 12:55:31 mvilleneuve: you have to understand that tic is one of those crazy Swedes that actually *want* snow. 12:56:41 beach: have a look at http://www.informatimago.com/webcams/ (yesterday morning) 12:56:49 Thankfully there has not been more than half a day of snow this year. 12:56:51 drwhen [n=d@73-114-74-65.gci.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:55 mvilleneuve: Where I am from, we call them "northerners", and they were usually born in one of the provinces north of Skåne. 12:56:57 beach: I guess for you guys, french snow is considered warm 12:56:58 I'm planning to create a cms with claw, do you think that r-trees are a good choice to store the cms datastructure? and is spatial-treees good? 12:57:04 <_3b> does swank provide any easily accessible file/line# info when compiling with C-c C-c from slime? 12:57:39 pjb: makes me glad I am in HCM. 12:58:01 Xof, it was for you ^^ 12:58:04 catnap: better use (subseq sequence 0 3) ; otherwise, you'd do (let ((list (list 1 2 3 4 5 6))) (setf (cdr (nthcdr 2 list)) nil) list) 12:58:11 beach: how's the weather there? 12:58:16 mbaro [n=Ragg@blk-224-201-103.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 12:58:21 mvilleneuve: "you guys"? 12:58:26 -!- mbaro [n=Ragg@blk-224-201-103.eastlink.ca] has left #lisp 12:58:37 mvilleneuve: 32°C as usual :) 12:58:38 kiuma: what is a "cms" and what data are you planning to store, with what as a key? 12:58:38 -!- Cronos [n=a@5ad1b2aa.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 12:58:50 beach: I initially thought you included yourself in the "crazy Swedes" group 12:59:11 nxt [n=nxt@77.207.25.109] has joined #lisp 12:59:17 (actually, right now it's just 26, but it's 20:00 so that's normal) 12:59:43 cool 12:59:43 mvilleneuve: Hell, no. I am ethnically and linguistically from Skåne. :) 13:00:00 :) 13:00:22 mvilleneuve: It would be like including Basque in French. 13:00:25 beach, crazy? very likely! the view is still kick-ass. -> http://media.jansson.be/mikael/2007/valdisere/7/P1020779.JPG.html 13:00:28 Xof, Content Management System (web app). it will contain the web site navigation structure but not only. It has to potentially represent a Document management System structure 13:00:37 Yep, the crazies are always a tad more northward. 13:00:50 pjb: haha! 13:00:51 beach: ugh... sorry for the horrible confusion... 13:00:57 Xof, I'm taking inspiration from magnolia.info 13:01:02 mvilleneuve: I'll explain to you one day :) 13:01:25 beach: I also went to Skåne once 13:01:27 weirdo pasted "metacircular LET" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73179 13:01:53 people speack differently there - the tone is more melodic 13:01:53 kiuma: then I doubt it. spatial-trees are for representing information keyed by points or regions in a higher-dimensional (usually Euclidean, sometimes just metric) space 13:02:05 weirdo: foos? bars? 13:02:19 tic: I am sure you would not be impressed if I sent you a picture of a sea of motorbikes on the streets of HCM. 13:02:35 catnap: Really? Where? 13:02:36 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:02:42 kiuma: unless of course if you want to index your document spacially. 13:02:46 pjb, yes 13:03:02 beach, don't be so sure! "When in Rome, do as the Italians!". I like winter when it's winter, just as much as I love the summer when it's warm. 13:03:03 kiuma: there are IP geolocation services. 13:03:07 catnap: Yeah, closer to the intonation of English, actually. 13:03:20 pjb, no not at the moment 13:04:30 *tic* laughs for himself thinking about Swedish intonation in spoken English. 13:04:30 Ogedei [n=user@78.52.230.49] has joined #lisp 13:04:35 catnap: My older brother speaks English with a Skåne intonation, and it sounds perfectly plausible to my wife who is a native speaker of English. 13:04:44 pjb, It could be an additional service for claw-as (application server) but not for the cms, where I need to represent the hyerarchical structure of the cms 13:05:02 this structure is more or less: 13:05:19 uri->claw-template 13:05:37 for website 13:05:48 beach: it's not proper Swedish English without the "bork bork bork" 13:05:55 catnap: On the other hand, whenever we hear a Swede from further north trying to speak English on TV, it sounds silly. 13:06:09 then claw-template->claw-dialog 13:06:21 Adamant: That's what I hear. 13:06:53 is there any decent (mature, not terribly inefficient) library for faking ML-style algebraic data types + pattern matching in CL? I think I've become spoiled 13:06:57 http://photos2.flickr.com/2880377_eb87c5a16d.jpg 13:07:16 sorry, I love the Swedish Chef, being of Scandanvian extraction 13:07:21 pjb (a dialog interactively allow the user to set template properties -> via web intf) 13:07:54 pjb then the structure must be stored to a database 13:08:13 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 13:08:49 beach: I'm more used to the swedish of sweadish speaking finnish people 13:08:59 it's very differen't 13:09:05 the tone doesn't change so much 13:09:15 pjb, the structure leaves may point to byta array (for example images or pdf) 13:09:17 *tic* knows two words in Finnish-Swedish. 13:11:01 I know four: mamma, pappa, hund och katt 13:11:37 catnap: That dialect is absolutely beautiful. We met some in Nha Trang a week or so ago. 13:11:49 kiuma: perhaps you just need to index the data over several different criteria? It's possible an optimization exists, using spatial trees to build a multi-criteria index, but I don't know. In anycase, I think think it would be worthwhile only if the density is high. 13:11:51 beach, agreed. 13:11:58 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 13:12:00 catnap: Turns out, they know Linus Torvalds and his family. 13:12:48 Yep, the six degree rule works better in small countries. 13:13:03 beach: how did they know Linus? 13:13:32 benny [n=benny@i577A23DD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:38 catnap: I forget exactly, but there are only some 100k of them left. 13:14:40 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.71] has joined #lisp 13:14:48 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:15:04 pjb, do you know what kind of tree algo a fs like the ext2 one does use? what I need is more or less like a FS, that I need to store into a database 13:15:31 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:15:31 kiuma: b-trees are good for hierarchical directories. 13:15:47 beach: 100k of Torvald family or what? 13:15:56 k 13:16:04 kiuma: A file system that is indexed by position is very different from (say) search trees. 13:16:23 catnap: of Finnish speakers of Swedish 13:16:42 oh .. they are so few 13:16:49 yeah 13:16:56 Fewer than the Icelanders 13:16:56 they still have enormous political power in Finland 13:17:27 they are always in the government, no matter what 13:17:50 catnap: you might be right. I am not following very closely. 13:18:23 beach, ok 13:18:25 300k would be closer 13:19:03 jsnell: Really? 13:19:40 yes 13:19:54 Good for them! 13:20:08 I guess it is not quite clear how to count. 13:20:23 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4c2e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:38 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:22:11 start with 1 13:22:19 this is a real problem 13:23:04 I met a woman whos husband was finnish who spoke swedish 13:23:13 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:14 she was not sure whether or not that counts 13:23:29 and the children spoke swedish as a primary language 13:24:21 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 13:24:33 the 300k would be what people have self-identified as in the national registry. or been identified by their parents at birth 13:25:11 sellout, welcome to #lispi! 13:25:37 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 13:25:40 lispi? 13:26:04 tic: you mean Lispii 13:26:25 z0d, that would make a long "i"-sound, I think I want the short version. 13:26:35 jsnell: why do they have to identify? 13:26:59 tic: yes, but the "ii" is more explicitly "finnish" 13:27:00 it's Finland, not natzi germany 13:28:52 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:30:05 last week I tried a game called open falcon 13:30:12 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:30:14 that must be the most difficult game ever invented 13:30:21 has anyone tried it? 13:30:52 Is it written in Lisp? 13:31:00 propably not 13:31:20 the source leaked so that every one can take a look 13:31:26 beach: I couldn't find any info on summer internships (or what is it called) on the site you gave me 13:32:09 catnap: is it easier if you have to source? 13:32:20 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.143.10] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:33:31 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:33 z0d: source gives some flexibility 13:33:58 there are some people that are trying to make the game more and more realistic 13:35:17 what was that tree called that is used in filesystems. It's goal was to minimise the amount of disc accesses needed to find an element on the disc. (I think I could implement it in an abstract manner, but I can't find the name). << kiuma find it and you could like to use it (yet it seems overkill to me) 13:35:25 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:41 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 13:35:52 btree? 13:36:17 madnificent: logfs? 13:36:22 jsnell: might as well be, didn't that have less items per node? 13:36:33 z0d: don't know that :) 13:37:03 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:04 a b-tree will have an arbitrary number of items in a node 13:37:22 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:37:50 jsnell: yes, probably that then. With some optimisation on the block-size of the harddisk 13:39:41 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 13:43:02 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [] 13:43:40 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:57 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 13:45:54 blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has joined #lisp 13:48:10 http://redballoonsoftware.com/foldr.html 13:48:13 http://redballoonsoftware.com/foldl.html 13:51:03 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:51:56 Quadrescence, fun! 13:54:54 madnificent, I've found something interesting in postgresql site 13:55:14 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbff32.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:16 Quadrescence: but you should call them /reduce?from-end=t, nul 13:55:35 kpreid: It's not my site. Otherwise I would, maybe. 13:55:44 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:55:53 It is a lispier version of www.foldl.com and www.foldr.com 13:57:27 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:57:58 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:04 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 13:59:12 Ok. Here's the quiz of the day. I have a piece of software that registers callbacks off with a server. This server fires off this callback ever so often (maybe 50-60 / second or so. or any other random low number like that). Now this callback is, of course in lisp space, and basically it is (defvar *callcount* 0) (defcallback cb :int ((num-frames :int) (arg :int)) (declare (ignore num-frames arg)) (incf *callcount*)) 13:59:18 right. 13:59:20 The problem is that this crashes my sbcl real bad. 13:59:28 and, as it turns out, also my clisp. 13:59:29 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 13:59:46 also crashes if I remove the INCF. 13:59:56 Anyone with some sweet sweet ideas? :) 14:00:17 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:01:21 schme: you still haven't tried that communication interface over sockets then? 14:01:38 madnificent: To be honest I didn't quite understand the whole concept :) 14:02:14 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:46 schme: instead of doing the callback immediately to your lisp core. You do it over a socket. That way you can see what data is coming in and you can certainly not corrupt your lisp-core by bogus data. As I don't know the cffi internals, I can't tell you much more either :) 14:03:18 is it a multithreaded server? 14:03:31 jsnell: Yes, no. tried sbcl with and without threads, and clisp without threads. 14:03:38 oh the server. 14:03:54 well yes. 14:04:17 madnificent: Right.. so I hack up a lil' C thing to do that specific callback. 14:04:18 hrrm. 14:04:19 executing lisp code from a thread not created from lisp is unlikely to work very well 14:04:38 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:05:09 jsnell: Hmm.. Isn't that what the callbacks are supposed to let you do? 14:05:14 umm.. no 14:05:30 they're supposed to let you call into lisp from c 14:05:39 Oh. 14:05:43 they're not supposed to let you call into lisp from arbitrary threads 14:06:04 Well that makes a whole lotta sense then :) 14:06:33 envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 14:06:39 I'll look into that socket thing. I'm not quite liking it. 14:07:05 jsnell: didn't know that either. Interesting :) 14:07:49 <_8david`> the socket thing was a debugging suggestion 14:07:58 ah. 14:08:06 ya it sounds like it would be shit for the RT anyway :) 14:09:25 <_8david`> (Had you told us anything about your use of threads, I wouldn't have made that suggestion.) 14:09:29 I'll crack this nut. 14:10:16 ok. So it matters if jackd is using threads or not? 14:10:21 that's interesting 14:10:24 to me anyway :) 14:10:24 can't sockets use file-io and be fairly fast then? << I'm not implying anything 14:10:49 I'm thinking of outsourcing the callbacks to some C thing, and pinning some buffer arrays. 14:11:06 and have the C things point there. 14:11:23 hmmm.. maybe that will go not so good afterall. 14:11:35 <_8david`> madnificent: anything involving systems calls and I/O will be slower than a direct call to a C function. But that's really missing the point for a debugging tool. 14:11:55 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 14:12:46 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4c2e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:13:00 That's quite troublesome. 14:13:09 namin [i=534f1dc9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ce92edc36a90c361] has joined #lisp 14:13:52 beach, I take my previous statement back. I am indeed crazy. I'm freezing in my room w/ >20C, and here I'm embarking on a snow trip. 14:14:06 _8david`: slower, yes. But perhaps fast enough 14:16:30 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:17:13 It seems like tricky shit to pull off. 14:19:13 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19:25 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 14:19:38 Or it could be faster: you would be doing what libjack are now doing. 14:19:59 lhz: ? 14:20:07 lhz: What's that? 14:21:45 schme: The sockets/io suggestion sounds like implementing libjack in lisp. 14:21:51 aah :) 14:21:56 Ya I guess. 14:22:28 Though even if I didn't use the ffi, and reimplemented libjack, I'd still need it to hook up to jackd, and register the callbacks. 14:22:31 heh. 14:22:41 -!- brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["leaving"] 14:22:44 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23:16 Well I 14:23:20 'll work some amazingness out. 14:23:23 hrr hrmm 14:23:52 -!- oklopol [n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:23:53 oklofok [n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:24:42 willb [n=wibenton@wireless107.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 schme: my guess would be callback stays on your side and jackd requests libjack to run the callback and feed the result. 14:26:08 hey that's a good point. 14:27:52 Well balls of joy to come then. 14:30:45 jlouis_ [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:31:39 -!- jlouis_ [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:32:02 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:32:17 -!- catnap [n=tommi@hoasnet-fe30dd00-48.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 14:32:21 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:32:26 zik [n=zik@user-67b039.user.msu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:32:55 -!- l_a_m_ [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 14:33:49 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-132.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:34:03 weirdo: hey remember what I said about with-documentation? Can't you just put (documentation (sexps-syntax)) before the function you're documenting (the syntax could be allowed to call macros and whatnot to easen the burden). Then parse the file. It is virtually the same as other languages do, but sweeter (docstrings only allow strings, I think it would be better to allow the documentation and the language to be written in a single 14:34:04 syntax). 14:34:39 madnificent, i'd settle for docstrings 14:35:31 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 14:36:46 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-205.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:36:51 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [] 14:38:59 -!- namin [i=534f1dc9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ce92edc36a90c361] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:39:31 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 14:43:48 vixey [n=vicky@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1EDEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:33 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-132.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 14:45:43 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1C884.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:27 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-132.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-132.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:46:50 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-132.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:47:01 -!- segv_ is now known as segv 14:49:47 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 14:55:49 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 14:56:40 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit ["time to go"] 14:56:54 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:47 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:29 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:59:31 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:07:05 JippsiKing [i=JippsiKi@gateway/tor/x-51304d8f7f54a17c] has joined #lisp 15:07:06 josemanuel [n=josemanu@42.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:09:12 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 15:09:14 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:09:35 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:33 -!- antoni [n=antoni@106.pool85-53-16.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 15:14:04 blitz_ [n=julian@141.76.6.77] has joined #lisp 15:14:53 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:15 -!- JippsiKing [i=JippsiKi@gateway/tor/x-51304d8f7f54a17c] has quit [Killed by Dave2 ()] 15:16:47 silenius [n=jl@e178043146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:01 -!- envi_home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:19:23 leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has joined #lisp 15:22:59 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:57 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:27:18 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 15:28:20 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 15:30:27 finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-69.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:31:19 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.255.32] has joined #lisp 15:31:31 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.245.141] has joined #lisp 15:34:15 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-29-161.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 15:34:23 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-29-161.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:34:29 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-29-161.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 15:37:04 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 15:39:38 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.248.71] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:11 Dynetrekk pasted "what does this mean?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73184 15:41:41 -!- yoeljacobsen1 [n=yoeljaco@emetdsl.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:42:30 Dynetrekk: what is it that you do not understand? 15:42:46 H4ns: ^M <- what's that? 15:42:55 Dynetrekk: that is a return character 15:42:56 H4ns: I'd expect a newline, perhaps 15:43:04 H4ns: oh, so why doesn't it? 15:43:04 Dynetrekk: carriage return, ascii 13 15:43:08 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:14 Dynetrekk: doesn't it what? 15:43:20 H4ns: make a newline? 15:43:41 Dynetrekk: because g does not contain a newline, perhaps? 15:44:30 H4ns: so how did the ^M get there :P sorry, I must be confused. anyway, you're saying ^M is a carriage return, and lisp will make a new line if I put a newline character. 15:44:56 Dynetrekk: maybe you edited it with a windows editor 15:45:03 z0d: I am mortally insulted 15:45:23 z0d: but you are right, in a sense 15:45:26 Dynetrekk: yes. on some systems, a newline consists of a carriage return and a linefeed character (windows), some use only carriage return (mac) and some use linefeed (unix) 15:45:35 somehow my editor saved the file as "windows format" 15:45:43 I don't know what to say 15:45:57 Dynetrekk: a common way to create a newline is to call TERPRI or to use the ~% format directive. 15:45:58 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 15:46:17 H4ns: okay, thanks 15:46:42 z0d: thanks for the tip 15:47:55 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-29-161.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:47:58 H4ns: like this? -> (format t "~a~%" g) 15:48:13 -!- Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit [Success] 15:48:18 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:48:18 Dynetrekk: yes, but if the carriage return is in g, it will still be printed. 15:48:54 H4ns: my input data file was mis-saved in windows format, as z0d suggested. got rid of that. 15:49:02 H4ns: it works like this, it seems... 15:49:02 Dynetrekk: ah, ok - so yes. 15:49:14 great 15:49:16 thanks 15:49:45 H4ns: the ~ is the "instructions follow" for (format) ? 15:49:54 Dynetrekk: right. 15:50:12 Dynetrekk: like % in printf, if you will. only more powerful. 15:50:33 H4ns: I see. C's printf, I suppose. 15:50:35 auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-34.residence.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 15:50:45 Happy new year everyone! 15:50:56 Dynetrekk: Yes, but FORMAT is more powerful 15:51:00 Dynetrekk: right, c's printf that is inherited by all the lesser languages like java and python. 15:51:05 auclairb: that is *so* 2008 -_- 15:51:21 H4ns: lesser? :P ah well 15:51:32 Dynetrekk: welcome to #lisp! :) 15:51:38 is FORMAT Turing-complete? 15:51:38 H4ns: thanks ;) 15:52:01 z0d: my impression is that all things in lisp are? loop, format, probably even + 15:52:05 Anyone know how to get in touch with Volkan YAZICI (author of meta-sexp)? 15:52:31 Aankhen``: He's sometimes in this channel as vy. 15:52:41 Oh, that's him? I didn't realize. 15:52:44 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 15:52:50 Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for him. 15:52:55 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@239.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:54:33 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B4DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:55:54 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.249.187] has joined #lisp 15:57:18 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:40 nyef [n=nyef@pool-70-20-58-237.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:48 G'morning all. 15:58:00 top of the morning, sire 15:58:07 Hi nyef. 15:58:48 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 15:58:55 Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 15:59:09 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:00:07 beach: lisp-based bioinformatics projects? 16:00:41 ah, there's the web page 16:01:17 slyrus: can you find info on that page about internships (or anything of the likes) or am I looking at another link? 16:02:16 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.255.32] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:02:32 what's the difference between UPTO and TO in clisp? 16:02:39 eh, LOOP 16:03:17 mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 16:03:22 Two letters? 16:03:31 Hello nyef. 16:04:11 Dynetrekk_: doesn't matter, it explicitates that the numbers are going from small to large, but that is the standard anyways 16:04:32 s/standard/default/ 16:04:38 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:42 madnificent: ah, I see. is there an equiv. to the for(int i=0; i BELOW 16:05:19 cYmen: thanks, works like a charm 16:05:31 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:05:50 Dynetrekk_: loop for i from 0 below n do 16:05:54 doh! 16:05:56 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:11 madnificent: too late, so no cigar :) 16:06:18 Dynetrekk_: dotimes ? 16:06:32 madnificent: below works I guess 16:06:35 just do, manually 16:06:44 I want a prize! ;_; 16:07:36 rtra_ [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 16:07:51 (loop for ch in "hello" do (print ch)) <- why does this not work? 16:08:53 would be more elegant than using (elt "string" index) 16:09:02 You want ACROSS, not IN. 16:09:04 madnificent, loop for i below n 16:09:06 "hello" is a vector, not a list. 16:09:26 (loop for ch being each element in "hello" do (print ch)) ; sbcl-only 16:09:28 weirdo: ? what what for? 16:09:39 leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has joined #lisp 16:09:47 for i below n == for i from 0 below n 16:10:10 Aankhen``: I'll try across... 16:10:43 weirdo: oh, like that ,yes Dynetrekk_ imposed an initialisation of i, so I thought I'd better add it too (to make it clearer) 16:16:12 Dynetrekk pasted "seems better?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73187 16:16:13 Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 16:16:26 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:16:27 madnificent, Aankhen`` : like this? 16:17:42 -!- weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:19:42 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.242.213] has joined #lisp 16:22:09 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@120.pool85-54-87.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:22:24 MrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has joined #lisp 16:22:37 -!- rtra_ is now known as rtra 16:22:43 Dynetrekk_: should work 16:23:29 madnificent: okay, thanks. just wanted to hear if I was doing something ridiculous (I'm trying to learn this "greater language" as you might have guessed) 16:23:43 Dynetrekk_: do notice that it will work because digit-char-p will return the digit when it is a digit. It will not work when spaces are in the grid-line." 16:24:11 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:24:13 allso, I think it can be done shorter 16:24:26 madnificent: okay 16:24:41 madnificent: for now, I won't worry too much about the file format containing spaces 16:24:43 Hi 16:24:53 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 dcrawford_ [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:00 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:12 -!- dcrawford_ is now known as dcrawford 16:26:27 Dynetrekk_: you do have a PCL by your side or at hand right? 16:26:46 tsuru: at my command, on-line AND downloaded (But not in dead tree form) 16:26:48 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.168.58] has joined #lisp 16:27:39 Dynetrekk_: good enough. the 'loop for black belts' section sounds right up your alley. 16:28:14 mad annotated #73187 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73187#1 16:30:01 -!- Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:30:04 stassats [n=stassats@ppp91-122-106-82.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:30:31 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 16:31:02 thanks for the paste, nice 16:31:10 -!- Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit [] 16:31:47 tsuru annotated #73187 with "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73187#2 16:34:23 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:36:26 tsuru: ahhh, I was wondering for something like that :) 16:37:50 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.249.187] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:39:36 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:40:28 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:41:58 mjf [n=mjf@r9fk63.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 16:43:23 (map 'list #'digit-char-p "12323") 16:43:29 -!- mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has left #lisp 16:43:31 oops, sorry 16:45:58 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 16:46:43 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.162.15.165] has joined #lisp 16:47:11 rread [n=rread@c-98-234-51-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:15 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@hq-users.caci.com] has quit [] 16:47:33 stassats, Dynetrekk: (delete-if 'null (map 'list 'digit-char-p "123 456 789")) ; that's complete again 16:48:34 (remove nil ...) rather 16:48:52 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 16:48:53 stassats: heh, didn't know that one 16:49:12 (remove-if-not #'digit-char-p "123 456 789") 16:49:49 dlowe: wouldn't that return a string? 16:49:57 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:51:36 (coerce (remove-if-not #'digit-char-p "123 456 789") 'list) if you insist 16:52:00 dlowe: it doesn't give numbers, does it? 16:52:15 dlowe: now it's a list of characters. I want the blasted digits :P hehehe 16:52:18 dlowe: which was kind of the question :) 16:52:51 then again, who solves a sudoku with digits, real men do it with bits. <3 binary sudokus 16:53:11 madnificent: just to learn some practical common lisp 16:53:22 madnificent: for example, how to read a text file for numbers 16:53:34 Dynetrekk: I was joking! It is perfectly fine, what you're doing! :P 16:53:46 madnificent: hehe, all right 16:53:48 (mapcan (lambda (x &aux (digit (digit-char-p x))) (when digit (list digit))) (coerce "1 2 3" 'list)) 16:53:52 madnificent: but I think binary sudoku would be fun 16:54:12 Dynetrekk: You've been reading xkcd again, haven't you? 16:54:12 think this is my favorite: (remove nil (map 'list 'digit-char-p "123 456 789")) 16:54:14 stassats: you win for complexity 16:54:29 nyef: not related to this, but in my life, definitely 16:54:42 nyef: "an elegant notation... for a more civilized age" or something? 16:54:49 Dynetrekk: I agree, it is straight-forward 16:55:04 -!- holycow [n=bite@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:55:14 madnificent: and uses map, which is nice 16:55:40 but it traverses list twice 16:55:59 stassats: which is bad exactly why? 16:56:15 stassats: still O(n); for n the length of the list 16:56:21 H4ns: twice more time! 16:56:32 stassats: and that matters because? 16:56:50 life is short 16:56:52 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 16:57:03 you've wasted way more time arguing the point than will ever be wasted by that function 16:57:29 yeah. too short to come up with fancy convoluted one-traversal-only fast functions that noone can read or fix. 16:57:50 s/ve wasted/ve enjoyed/ 16:58:15 i liked dlowe best! it could have been me :) 16:59:29 considering that you're likely to want random access to the sudoku digits, and also considering that a "digit" in sudoku is meaningless numerically, I think storing it all as a string would work just fine 16:59:46 dlowe: you are a bad loser 16:59:57 *g* 17:00:03 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:00:48 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:00:59 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 17:01:19 dlowe: might make a vector of the digits 17:01:47 -!- wolfboy22 [i=baumgold@tithonus.cs.brandeis.edu] has left #lisp 17:01:56 Dynetrekk: sure. But you're not really saving anything by using digits instead of characters 17:02:10 (remove nil (map 'vector #'digit-char-p "1 2 3 4 5")) 17:02:14 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:02:46 dlowe: saving writing. I can write 1 or #\1 17:02:59 as I said, store it as one list of bits, map that to some big number, find the instructions for your cpu and use those. I mean, how hard can assembly be on a modern processor. 17:03:31 hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:03:53 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 17:04:06 madnificent: why list of bits when we have bit-vectors 17:04:57 I think I'll just read the manual for the intel processor and do it myself. 1, 0, that's all you need baby. 17:04:58 Dynetrekk: http://www.xkcd.com/74/ 17:05:01 because I was making it overly complicated, as that was my point. But yes 17:05:15 nyef: great fun :) 17:05:18 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-161.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:06:35 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@141.157.238.161] has joined #lisp 17:06:45 nyef: sad part is, that that sudoku is invalid (AFAIK). You must have used all numbers in a box and the box must be squared... 17:06:53 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c121h014.wless.reed.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:06:57 -!- brickhazel_ [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.79] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:07:25 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@141.157.238.161] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:07:31 madnificent: Does that not mean that the smallest valid form for sudoku is quaternary? 17:07:45 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.240.72] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 nyef: isn't it obligatory that all numbers appear in a line allso? (the smallest has one element and one box, I think) 17:08:51 tsk 17:08:53 madnificent: all digits (symbols in general) in each line, row, and sub-box 17:09:04 I thought programmers started counting with zero 17:09:18 (the smallest sudoku is clearly the zero-length one) 17:09:41 Xof: we solve our sudoku's in different packages. Cross-package sudokus are so much fun! 17:09:52 there are no non-numbers in the zero-sized box, and the box has length zero on both sides 17:10:12 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:10:43 malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbff32.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:10 Xof: I finally solved it! 17:11:37 *madnificent* shuts up now, back to the book I'm reading 17:11:51 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c007h037.acad.reed.edu] has joined #lisp 17:13:49 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:16:27 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 17:16:27 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 17:18:03 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A23DD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:18:56 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:50 -!- MrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 17:20:16 oudeis [n=user@89-138-15-229.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:20:28 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.242.213] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:22:15 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:16 -!- oudeis [n=user@89-138-15-229.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:24 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:23:37 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:02 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [] 17:25:34 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 17:26:00 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:26:47 benny [n=benny@i577A23DD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:27:09 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbff32.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:29:26 hi folks 17:29:42 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BBA1E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:31:10 I have a question related to bank transactions. Is anyone familiar with how those are done I could talk to privately? 17:32:19 tcr: absolutely do not even consider writing your own banking software 17:32:51 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.168.58] has left #lisp 17:33:15 tcr: do it! 17:34:19 the regulatory requirements alone... 17:34:42 (if it's just for payment, use a payment gateway; they'll handle some of the nastiness for you) 17:35:10 tcr: It's much easier than rsynnott makes it sound. Quit your dayjob, and devote your whole coming week to this project. You will be greatly rewarded for it. 17:35:15 ;) 17:35:46 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-161.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 17:39:43 samkayley [n=thedeepe@5acad27c.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:24 Someone should teach SLIME to paren match ~{ and ~} in FORMAT strings. 17:40:49 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:13 tcr: I spent some time recently banging my head against double-entry bookkeeping. Is that what you're talking about? 17:41:54 tcr: if that is the case, then I might be able to help too, but bank transactions seem to be... bank transactions 17:42:02 gigamonkey: I don't understand the rationale for bank transfers to take up to 3 days. 17:42:27 tcr: interest. 17:42:30 I'd like to learn about the process and business decisions involved. But it's way off topic here. 17:42:43 tcr: one day is for the transfers to happen between the banks, the other two days have been illegal (in europe) for years (AFAIK) but it simply happens 17:42:58 If someone can point me to some document (wikipedia entry say) that describes it, I'd be grateful. 17:43:21 tcr: Though in sweden it does take less than a day most of the.. or from one day to the next. They do transfers 4 times / day. And it goes *click* fast. 17:43:31 most of the time. 17:43:33 tcr: allso, some banks in belgium don't have the issue of waiting days. Minutes if within the same bank, a day at most between some banks 17:43:44 ya same here. 17:43:56 other than that.. just interest :) 17:44:52 tcr: generally, I think it is called 'service'. If they don't provide the service but cache on the interest, I think they can do it soulely because nobody dares to fight them legally (as you'll go bankrupt in the process) 17:45:00 tcr: I suspect the rationale is that the best way to screw the little guy. (Meaning you and me.) 17:45:03 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:36 Much like they typically clear all your checks and *then* all your deposits (from a given day) hoping to catch you with overdraft fees, etc. 17:46:44 tcr: it's what madnificent said: the banks use the money for short-term liquidity, cashing the interest 17:47:31 (which incidentally is why we all take our money out and buy gold ;) ) 17:48:12 keep in mind that many big companies don't care about what they do wrong to non-capitally rich people/companies. In our family we are undergoing a process of the same liking, the legal team of the other party is simply there to postpone the process and raise the costs. Virtually certain they will loose if we push trough, they're doing everything to stop us (for it apparantly is the first time they got sued) 17:48:33 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:48:36 schme: and beer! 17:49:03 madnificent: now that's liquidity for the recession! 17:49:57 milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.58] has joined #lisp 17:51:13 schme: until the gold price abruptly collapses and never recovers, as in the 80s ;) 17:51:34 oh don't say that :( 17:52:02 rsynnott: It has recovered quite well though :P 17:52:06 schme: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gold_price.png 17:52:21 rsynnott: any luck digging up that cl-facebook article? :) 17:52:31 Fade: oh, damn, forgot all about that 17:52:36 will take a look when I get home 17:52:45 (I've got the old DB dump for the MT blog somewhere) 17:52:48 thanks. I appreciate it. 17:53:01 ah yes. poor the suckers who bought on top of the spike :) 17:53:12 the article isn't that fascinating, anyway; I think it's mostly about how to force the authentication to work properly 17:53:13 did you push patches to cl-facebook? 17:53:17 Fade: nope 17:53:33 well, auth is the hurdle I'm looking at, atm. 17:54:02 (though I'll actually be doing some more facebook stuff soon (real app this time; yay!), so will try to improve where I can 17:54:26 If I have a tree defined as a variable (an alist for example) will this be stored into swap or phisical ram ? 17:54:26 my big problem was just that facebooks docs are at best confusing and at worst sheer lies 17:54:35 this is my first fb forray in lisp. 17:54:39 kiuma: that would be the operating system's business 17:55:14 Fade: you may also find it useful to look at how a fb library in a language you know works 17:55:17 i've been looking at how the ruby fb interface does things. 17:55:21 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 17:55:23 (I found the python one quite helpful) 17:55:23 yep 17:55:23 at least gold can't just go bancrupt. The gold market is a good pointer to the economical uncertainty. When investors (and people) can't find any good investments, and hard times are coming, they buy gold. Clearly, this doesn't help the economy whatsoever, but perhaps that is the whole idea of speculation. 17:55:47 gold is a weird one, because there's always some chance of a change in supply 17:55:58 which python lib were you looking at? I'm more familiar with python than ruby. 17:56:04 rsynnott, I wonder if I should be worry to have a bit tree of strings (the uri collection of a big web application) into memory 17:56:30 or if it's good to have it in memory 17:56:34 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:56:39 (for instance, I believe that some of the radical uranium extraction methods currently being proposed due to rising prices would produce gold as an effective byproduct, messing with the price) 17:56:50 Fade: the one that facebook links to, I think 17:56:57 k. thanks 17:57:15 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 17:57:34 (rsynnott: then we substitute gold by diamonds, and we get the same effect (even though they can be faked allready (help, what will become the now gold?!))) 17:57:47 O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 17:58:05 diamonds can be synthesized. 17:58:07 for example suppose that you have to manage the dispatch request table for facebook. How should you do ? 17:58:17 We replace the gold with lisp hackers. 17:58:25 get ready to get locked up in vaults, people. 17:59:07 schme: do we get internet in there? 17:59:17 -!- netaust1n_ [n=austinsm@cpe-67-243-48-35.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:59:30 No. Just you, a 486 computer with no porn, and Arc. 17:59:52 also no coffee. 17:59:52 fortunately, Arc comes with a fully featured Scheme compiler :p 17:59:54 hmm. 17:59:56 i might agree if there was a CM-5 in the bargain. 17:59:58 kiuma: I was thinking of the same thing. I'm thinking of building a request tree. If that isn't fast enough, a hash will do (and if that fails, you can put it in a database) 18:00:02 younder [n=jpthing@062016236162.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #lisp 18:00:14 (: 18:00:20 schme: I wont notice the computer without coffee 18:01:02 kiuma: oh, the request tree could constitute of closures, that would make it extensible. In your approach: full blown objects :) 18:01:05 madnificent, I've to put in a database (a cms is dynamic and final user should have the possibility to change its structure) 18:01:25 kiuma: lisp is dynamic, so that doesn't really matter 18:02:39 I wonder if sotring the woule tree of facebook url would be possible with a alist 18:02:55 Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:03:05 use distributed computing <-: 18:03:13 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host234-206-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 18:03:39 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit ["Quit"] 18:04:04 kiuma: if the tree has many nodes, it may work, but if it has little nodes with many branches, it will be a pain. 18:04:08 madnificent: a dispatch table is not going to be the slow bit :) 18:04:39 and if it is it is trivial to optimise it 18:04:48 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 18:04:52 (goodness, a lot of two-letter words in a row) 18:05:00 kiuma: my guess was that it'd be best to store a hierarchical tree (so you know what will render the page). See what id/name that gives you, fetch that page from the database and be happy rendering it:) 18:05:33 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 18:05:46 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:05:57 rsynnott: if there are 1000 pages in the form of myfacebook/name (with name being a name) and all have to matched, it would become slow... 18:06:02 -!- hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm158.epsilon100.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:06:08 rsynnott: or wait, dispatch-table != alist 18:06:09 anyone know how to make emacs insert closing paren when I type the openin one? (textmate does this) 18:06:43 madnificent: you wouldn't do that with an alist 18:06:44 Dynetrekk: M-( will do it, but there's a paredit mode that does that as well, I think 18:06:57 the name would presumably be used to query a database of some sort 18:07:03 minion: tell Dynetrekk about paredit 18:07:04 Dynetrekk: direct your attention towards paredit: a set of Emacs commands, with a minor mode for convenient access to them, for editing balanced S-expressions and a number of higher-level operations on S-expressions, at ; see also the #paredit channel 18:07:25 madnificent, please! 18:07:55 I meant to use a tree 18:08:13 kiuma: ? what did I do wrong? 18:08:20 ksergio [n=sgarcia@mail.nuecho.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:43 :) "it'd be best to store a hierarchical tree" 18:08:49 it's unlikely you'd want user names as part of some static dispatch structure 18:09:12 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:18 rsynnott: so a list of lambdas (in tree-form) wouldn't be all that bad right? each finding a good method to handle its own level 18:11:38 I'd only like to know what would happen to memory if my tree is composed of several thousands of nodes (the search time should be ok though) 18:11:50 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:11:55 and nodes are strings 18:12:36 kiuma: that would imply several thousand levels... (not really, but it would not be what you're assuming, I think) 18:13:28 quite big binary trees are quite practical 18:13:36 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 18:13:41 kiuma: allso, you could try to simulate it and measure the results (it would give you a better idea, than us guessing) 18:14:04 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:14:29 what does the # mean: 18:14:30 CL-USER> (read-sudoku-line "1 2 3456 789") 18:14:30 #(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) 18:14:36 rsynnott: when a node gets a lot of pages/strings attached to it, I think a hash may become more efficient 18:14:42 madnificent, no this would imply several hunders of level 18:14:44 Dynetrekk: here be a list 18:14:52 vector, not list 18:15:11 ah, vector. I see. 18:15:39 kiuma: you are going to get webpages with several hundreds of levels? (and that be 2^(* several 100) pages << much :D) 18:16:02 adeht: point 18:16:07 trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-058-208-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:30 kiuma: I'd say build it, test it and change if it would be insufficient 18:17:37 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:17:52 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:17:59 I wonder suppose that my tree is compoesed of nodes that are strings, for a total of 20Mb 18:18:32 The structure could be a bilanced tree 18:18:42 as long as it isn't really bad, a dispatch mechanism will rarely be the bottleneck 18:18:46 I don't mind at the moment 18:18:54 the bottleneck comes when you have to touch the despised DISK 18:19:15 *rsynnott* has had good results with more or less normal binary trees with millions of elements 18:19:25 DISK Is Speed Killer? 18:19:30 (not for dispatch) 18:19:52 rsynnott, being uri they souldn't be changed too often 18:20:20 oh, indeed. "Oh, you want THAT block, do you? Okay, suppose I'd better move my head and make that disturbing click-click sound" 18:20:21 the only time consuming could come from db loading 18:20:50 hashes make a lot of sense compared to binary trees where seek time is high 18:21:00 but may or may not be more expensive if seek time is low 18:21:15 (if seek time is VERY high, then the b-tree makes an appearance) 18:21:37 cliffr [n=canuck11@66.183.147.55] has joined #lisp 18:21:37 and using hashes for strings is done quickly in lisp (which makes for a good stub) 18:22:32 madnificent, I need to hold the tree structure 18:23:09 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 18:23:13 even because the user must be able to change the name of a middle node 18:23:58 but I could us hashes of hashes 18:24:15 tihs is my idea of tree for this purpose 18:24:18 kiuma: that is still possible. But when you encounter a node that has many many subpages, you can use a hash to find the next node (instead of traversing the proposed alist) 18:24:19 *this 18:24:52 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@141.76.6.77] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:25:04 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:12 madnificent, yes indeed alist was just an example a hash would be more appropriate indeed 18:26:04 netaust1n [n=austinsm@160.79.78.72] has joined #lisp 18:26:29 guess you have a solution to try out then. It will probably work fairly good. I'm still resorting to a closure per 'node' which allows for a separate system per node, to find the next node. 18:26:38 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:00 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:27:10 Guest32262 [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:51 -!- Guest32262 is now known as sellout 18:30:53 ok if byte size is not a problem, then I'll go with this solution 18:32:09 but what if the size become rally big, for example leaves could be byte array storing pdf files. What then ? 18:32:30 ...mmm no. Ignore this 18:33:06 jimt [n=jim@202.27.212.33] has joined #lisp 18:33:32 getting the file from the db wouldnt cost so much at this point (db access wouldn't be the bottle neck) 18:33:35 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 18:33:59 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.162.15.165] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:34:00 kiuma: if you would integrate that, then you'd have to take another look at your architecture :) 18:34:28 kiuma: first search for the bottlenecks, then fix them :) This may well never become a bottleneck :) 18:35:54 -!- cads [n=max@c-71-56-62-166.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:36:30 -!- silenius [n=jl@e178043146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:37:48 Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 18:38:08 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:38:55 -!- trebor_h` [n=user@dslb-084-058-208-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:43:23 blitz_ [n=julian@u16-121.dsl.vianetworks.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:17 bighouse [n=bighouse@bas1-montreal42-1177927794.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:46:51 madnificent, yep :) 18:47:26 madnificent, O.T. a baby is really a job! pant pant! :P 18:47:50 three days that I'm running left and right 18:48:48 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 18:50:39 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@42.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 18:53:05 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 18:54:06 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 18:56:01 -!- Wombat2 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has left #lisp 18:58:15 kiuma: give her toys! http://xkcd.com/297/ 19:01:37 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:01:52 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AC98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:10 -!- samkayley [n=thedeepe@5acad27c.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 19:06:14 antoni [n=antoni@191.pool85-53-28.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 19:07:22 c u tomorrow 19:07:49 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 19:08:13 billc_ [n=chatzill@S0106001b63f442be.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:26 -!- Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:08:36 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 19:10:44 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 19:10:46 -!- neomage [n=anon@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:14:19 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:14:47 neomage [n=anon@c-98-216-105-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:50 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:17:01 -!- billc_ [n=chatzill@S0106001b63f442be.vn.shawcable.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120121]"] 19:18:50 -!- lispelot [n=lispelot@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 19:19:56 -!- Ogedei [n=user@78.52.230.49] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:23:36 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 19:25:36 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [] 19:28:58 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.74.15] has joined #lisp 19:31:24 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:31:47 -!- eliasm [n=eliasm@CPE001e9002348e-CM001225d8ab30.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:34:32 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@dhcp180-34.residence.usherb.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:35:27 elurin [n=user@85.96.235.121] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 19:38:00 -!- sepisultrun [n=user@ks35219.kimsufi.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:39:42 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 19:39:45 Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 19:39:52 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 elo460 [n=elo@adsl-76-193-162-108.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:34 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:45:06 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-105-14.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:45:17 hehehe [n=root@142.232.116.1] has joined #lisp 19:45:49 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.0.180] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:10 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:47:13 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:01 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 19:52:27 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:56 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:54:04 -!- hehehe [n=root@142.232.116.1] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:35 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-189.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:40 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:57:53 how does one convert a list into a vector? (vector (list 1 2 3)) doesn't work, and I can't see how I can convert... 19:58:45 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 19:58:59 billc_ [n=billc@24.114.237.17] has joined #lisp 20:00:05 mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has joined #lisp 20:00:20 (apply #'vector '(1 2 3)) 20:00:23 you can make loop convert for you. :-) 20:00:46 what about coerce? 20:02:05 (map 'vector 'identity list)? 20:02:15 ksergio: sounds good 20:02:34 jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:02:52 Yay, I finally got my project approved on cl.net. Now all that remains is to actually write the second half of it! :-D 20:03:14 hello all. :) 20:03:19 -!- billc_ is now known as billc 20:03:25 -!- billc [n=billc@24.114.237.17] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:26 I'm a little confused about case and friends 20:03:40 -!- antoni [n=antoni@191.pool85-53-28.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:04:06 On a somewhat related note, is there anyone here using Mercurial for a project who could help me figure out how to set it up on the server? That is to say, I see directories for CVS and SVN, and I'm wondering whether I should just stick in another directory there, or put something under public_html or something. 20:04:20 if I have: (defconstant +WILL+ (char-code 245)) can't I do: (ecase the-variable ((+WILL+) (do-something))) ? 20:04:28 it seems to treat +WILL+ as a symbol 20:04:29 -!- finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-69.xnet.hr] has quit ["..."] 20:04:35 billc [n=billc@24.114.237.17] has joined #lisp 20:04:49 mindCrime [n=chatzill@74.213.159.129] has joined #lisp 20:04:55 jbjohns: case don't evaluate the keys, and compare with EQL. 20:05:26 -!- billc [n=billc@24.114.237.17] has left #lisp 20:05:49 billc [n=billc@24.114.237.17] has joined #lisp 20:06:28 jrockway [n=jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 20:07:11 -!- billc [n=billc@24.114.237.17] has left #lisp 20:07:12 I thought it did something like a: (member key keys) or so? 20:07:52 hmmm, how does one do double subscript in a consise way? i.e. not (elt (elt some-list 1) 2) 20:08:30 use a 2d array 20:08:36 ? 20:08:59 salex: hm, okay... now I have a vector-of-vectors... probably a good idea, that 20:09:18 in that case, *definitely* use a 2d array 20:09:36 unless you have to grow it's dimensions in wierd ways 20:09:45 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:55 wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 -!- Dynetrekk_ [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:10:39 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 20:10:46 fell off for a sec. the wifi is crappy. 20:10:57 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:11:51 Cronos [n=a@5ad4112f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:12 -!- wedgeV [n=wedge@cm56-238-229.liwest.at] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:20 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@121.207.25.231] has quit ["good night"] 20:17:01 gtasso [i=ca502eba@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5395cef068b5a443] has joined #lisp 20:19:13 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-3fa7970654a9d450] has joined #lisp 20:19:51 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-132.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 20:29:31 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@u16-121.dsl.vianetworks.de] has quit ["leaving"] 20:29:45 blitz_ [n=julian@u16-121.dsl.vianetworks.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:30 so, I'm doing telnet codes and I need basically a case statement 20:30:41 cond 20:30:43 clhs cond 20:30:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_cond.htm 20:31:21 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.170.68] has joined #lisp 20:31:23 can case do this, or do I have to use cond? Using cond would be strange because it would be like: (cond (eq key +A+) (do-something) (eq key +B+..... and so on 20:31:23 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@u16-121.dsl.vianetworks.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:50 blitz_ [n=julian@u16-121.dsl.vianetworks.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:52 I mean, I would have to keep doing the key compare in each case 20:32:21 jbjohns: use (case foo (#.+A+ ...) (#.+B+ ...)) 20:32:49 Dynetrekk pasted "array problems" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73199 20:33:49 I really don't see what the error message gives me... 20:33:51 Dynetrekk: have a look at COERCE and MAKE-ARRAY 20:33:56 jbjohns: But if you put the DEFCONSTANTs for +A+ and +B+ in the same file you have to put a EVAL-WHEN around it. 20:34:06 pjb: I'm using make-array... 20:34:37 Dynetrekk: Update your version of Slime. I yesterday made a change so it doesn't truncate error message anymore. 20:34:51 tcr: it isn't 20:35:09 Dynetrekk: your paste is not self sufficient. 20:35:10 tcr: I truncated it, at least the stack trace 20:35:23 pjb: no? 20:35:27 jbjohns: Then you have to make sure that the files containing the defconstants are loaded before the file referencing them is loaded 20:35:33 Dynetrekk: LET: variable *N-ROWS* has no value 20:35:57 Dynetrekk: No, the error message itself is truncated (I'm not speaking of the backtrace) 20:36:08 tcr: ah, okay... how do I update? :P 20:36:21 Dynetrekk: you run "cvs update -dP" in your source checkout 20:36:40 Dynetrekk: Then you restart Emacs. 20:36:45 Dynetrekk: converting a list to a vector is done easily with coerce or make-array. Now in you're paste you want to convert a list of vectors into a 2D array. Indeed you will have to do it explicitely. 20:37:17 Dynetrekk: a 2D array is referenced with (aref array i j) 20:37:37 Dynetrekk: DO NOT use ELT (or NTH) to scan the elements of a list. 20:37:40 tcr: Yea, I have it set up with my asdf dependencies (I use the explicit way instead of :serial t) 20:37:57 jbjohns: Alright 20:38:45 morteza [n=morteza@79.127.11.218] has joined #lisp 20:39:12 pjb: why not elt on a list? 20:39:13 LOL ELT to scan elements of a list 20:39:14 but thanks. It's tough talking with people you don't know, hard to gauge their skill level (I'm obviously a beginner, but asdf was something I ended up looking at right away) 20:39:21 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:39:28 Recur on the list instead of using ELT> 20:39:45 Dynetrekk: because ELT/NTH are O(n) 20:39:48 on lists. 20:39:51 Dynetrekk: elt for a single postion, not to walk the list 20:39:54 -!- morteza [n=morteza@79.127.11.218] has left #lisp 20:39:57 granted I'm sure there's tons and tons I don't know about it, but I focused on it until I could get the dependencies to load how I expected it 20:40:00 pjb: the lists are small... really small 20:40:05 but okay 20:40:25 Dynetrekk: it's easy to write (loop for column in list-of-vector for i from 0 do ...) 20:40:42 jbjohns: So FYI, #.(expr) evaluates EXPR at read-time, i.e. the reader evaluates +A+ and inserts its value into the CASE clause (which hence will only see the literal value) 20:41:46 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:41:51 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:41:56 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 20:42:02 jbjohns: But note that CASE on SBCL expands to a COND using EQL anyway. 20:42:03 tcr: and if I try it again this happens: 20:42:05 ~/.emacs.d/slime $ cvs update -dP 20:42:07 Unknown host common-lisp.net. 20:42:17 Dynetrekk: 2d-vector is a bad name (that's a vector of length 2) 20:42:42 Dynetrekk: also, your "from 0" is redundant 20:42:47 salex: they're called arrays? 20:42:53 *that's typically a vector of length 2 20:43:08 Dynetrekk: I don't know. Can you ping c-l.net? It works for me. 20:43:11 Dynetrekk: this has nothing particular to do with lisp. vectors are 1 dimesional things 20:43:13 tcr: that's odd, then why wasn't it working how I did it? It converts all non-constants to symbols? 20:43:27 tcr: no reply 20:43:34 tcr: sorry, unknown host 20:43:50 Can others reach c-l.net? 20:43:54 jbjohns: eql with quoted values. 20:44:16 jbjohns: You're confused. But I'm out of this. I'm sure someone else will chime in for me. 20:44:21 Dynetrekk: for that matter, you're basically reproducing something that make-array can do (look at :initial-contents 20:44:30 salex: ah, I see 20:45:01 but it smells like you're going about this the wrong way anyhow, depending what these arrays re for 20:45:17 Dynetrekk: but make-array takes only a list (of list)*, not a list of vectors... 20:45:25 right 20:45:36 tcr: Ok, so the values are quoted then (except for non-defconst constants since using like 1 would work, and this reader thing you showed me works) 20:45:39 pjb: I can make a list first... doesn't matter 20:45:44 but thanks much tcr and pkhuong 20:45:53 tcr, Dynetrekk i have no problems reaching cl-net. 20:45:54 On the other hand, you could write: (make-array (list columns rows) :initial-contents (mapcar (lambda (v) (coerce v 'list)) list-of-vectors)) 20:46:18 But this would make a copy of the structure with conses before copying the data to the array. 20:46:21 Dynetrekk: by the way, sometimes you do want to use aref roughly this way (nested loops), i hadn't seen your code when I made the comment about elt vs. map or whatever 20:46:37 Dynetrekk: where are these vectors coming from? Why are you putting them in a matrix? 20:46:37 tcr: ping doesn't work but update does now. but slime still seems broken. 20:46:52 Dynetrekk: you can greatly simplify your code by choosing the right input data structures. 20:47:01 salex: trying to read a file and put it into something meaningful 20:47:11 -!- sad0ur_ is now known as sad0ur 20:47:16 salex: so I started by reading lines (as I tend to do in python) 20:47:17 Put the file data directly into the array. 20:47:29 pjb: less easy, at least for me :P 20:47:35 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 20:47:48 You only need to know the size of the array at the beginning. 20:47:59 Or at least, the number of columns. 20:48:23 Dynetrekk: so you are reading a matrix from a file? 20:48:30 pjb: I know the number of columns, but I have to group a number of lines together after reading. I figured SUBSEQ could do that for me 20:48:43 salex: a (list of) matrix (matrices), yes 20:48:53 silenius [n=jl@e178043146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:07 you know the matrix size from the file? 20:49:19 salex: yep, it's for a sudoku solver :P 20:49:27 -!- silenius [n=jl@e178043146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:30 The do as I said. 20:49:32 i.e. 9x9 matrices, 20:49:34 s/The/Then/ 20:49:35 heh 20:49:43 pjb: directly into 2d array? 20:49:46 Yes. 20:49:46 yuup 20:50:23 (loop with array = (make-array `(9 9)) ... do (loop for j below 9 do (setf (aref array i j) ...) 20:50:25 basically 20:50:30 probably makes sense 20:50:46 also, why bother storing them in a file in 2d? 20:50:53 one per line is more usual. 20:50:54 salex: okay, I'll try that... hm... 20:51:23 salex: what do you mean? it's more human readable to store the info as it is meant to be read. and, also makes sense to me :P 20:51:39 yeah, but do you need it human readable in the file? 20:51:49 why would a human edit the file directly? 20:51:53 salex: no, but I would still like it to? 20:52:00 salex: to enter the sudoku to solve? 20:52:05 salex: ...for example... 20:52:12 why have them eneter it in a file? 20:52:18 anyway, do it howeve ryou like 20:52:23 salex: to save them to hard disk? :P 20:52:33 your program can do that 20:52:35 salex: because my input is in a file? 20:52:55 yes, but why? seems like a pain in the ass for any putative user 20:53:04 salex: do what? I have the input. should I write some other script to reformat the input first? 20:53:27 give them an interface. 20:53:52 salex: I'm going to use it myself for now... and, I have a large input file of sudoku puzzles, so I have to read then somehow 20:53:58 anyway, on the solver side, there happens to be an excruciating detailed discussion about this very thing (really about optimization) 20:54:04 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-3-205.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:54:25 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:38 that's what I assumed, but a large input file would usually be in amore useful/space efficient form 20:54:44 salex: right... one reason to do this is to learn some more lisp, e.g. reading files etc 20:54:52 i mean, there are semi standard formats for that 20:55:01 because peopel have done a lot of it 20:55:15 salex: granted, but I usually just write programs for myself (I'm a physicist) 20:55:25 -!- Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:34 Dynetrekk: http://skas-blog.blogspot.com/2007/06/exploratory-programming.html 20:55:43 Patzy [n=somethin@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:02 wait, wrong start 20:56:10 ttp://skas-blog.blogspot.com/2007/06/no-wait-hear-me-out.html 20:56:30 -!- fisxoj [n=fisxoj@ool-4356ce50.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:57:16 Dynetrekk: i've been meaning to revisit somewhat related stuff via Ising model simulations and monte-carlo in general, but don't know if I'll get around to it. 20:57:21 salex: okay, thanks for the tip! but right now, I haven't even managed reading the bloody file into a 2d array :P if I can't do that, the algorithm is no use 20:57:29 Dynetrekk: re physicist, research or student? 20:57:39 salex: somewhere in the middle. phd. 20:57:46 dysinger_ [n=tim@c-71-59-151-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:44 I guess most people here are "real" computer guys 20:58:47 Dynetrekk: ok, student. I actually aimed some of that stuff at ph.d students (maths, not physics) who wanted to learn a bit of lisp. there are code examples for everything, maybe some I/O (but I forget, it was ages ago) 20:59:21 all right 20:59:26 Dynetrekk: no. /me is a a mathematician, but we've got a real mix of people around. 20:59:29 Did anyone had a problem with M-x slime stopping at *inferior-lisp* buffer and not opening the CL-USER> prompt? 20:59:39 I was advised to learn lisp for an AI course I wanted to take (half for fun) 20:59:56 with sbcl 1.0.23 and cvs slime 20:59:56 mulander: me? but don't know how to fix 21:00:04 mulander: 1.0.24 here 21:00:26 Dynetrekk: fwiw, I did all my ph.d research code in lisp (MCMC stuff, etc.). I'm on the extremely applied end of maths 21:00:40 I seemed to have a simillar problem at my work pc setup. I think it was related to (slime-setup) but I'm not sure. 21:00:54 salex: aha, I see. I've been using python. by the way, I'm wondering if I talked to you before... 21:01:15 Dynetrekk, mulander: Recent slime moved the REPL out to a contrib. 21:01:28 Dynetrekk: perhaps, I don't know. python wasn't that userful when I started this stuff, (numpy was jsut getting going, etc). I moved from fortran c/c++ to lisp 21:01:41 (Wasn't this announced publicly on planet lisp recently?) 21:01:43 btw, the students I was helping went an left, which pretty much killed that blog :) 21:01:59 mulander: You probably want to add `slime-repl' to your `slime-setup' line. 21:02:17 salex: I did some C++ and Java before too, but... python seems to cut it for what I'm doing right now. but, I think lisp is interesting - I like the functional-paradigm, though I don't understand it 21:02:55 -!- dysinger [n=tim@166.129.74.15] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:03:11 nyef: mulander : for what it's worth, CLISP works with slime 21:03:15 it seems 21:04:02 CL really isn't a functional language, though you can use it. python is much more usable for numerical stuff now than it was. Common lisp has much better performance than native python, but fewer libs. So you have to drop to C to do things in python you could do natively in lisp. These days, you may not have to for manyt hings 21:04:05 Aankhen``: thanks this is exactly what I needed. I used slime-fancy at work that's why I didn't roadblock on the issue. 21:04:21 nyef: missed the post on planet lisp, thanks for pointing it out 21:04:46 salex: CL has fewer libs but you have to drop to C in Python more than in CL? :-S 21:05:32 salex: I found that python is mostly fast enough, for what I do. also, you can vectorize code a la matlab; meaning few function calls and most of the runtime spent in compiled methods 21:05:41 Aankhen``: if you want decent numerical performance out of python and the code doesn't exist, you'll have to write it in another language 21:05:45 numpy and pypy yeah 21:05:48 which isn't true for CL, typically 21:06:01 salex: I think you have a point there 21:06:09 Dynetrekk: right, it works for lots of stuff. CL is a more powerful language, too, but you might not care 21:06:33 I don't know what I'd do these days, python was far less capable as a scientific programming platform when I needed to switch 21:06:34 salex: Ah, I thought the C point was following up the libraries point. My mistake. 21:06:42 salex: might not. anyway, I'd still like to learn it. actually, I think haskell is the most elegant language I've tried, but it seems a bit too academic... 21:07:05 haskell was far too slow for what I was doing. you might like to learn it anyway 21:07:15 Aankhen``: yeah, i could have said that more clearly 21:07:18 salex: for data analysis and stuff that takes more dev time than run time, python is great 21:07:33 salex: haskell is compiled and not too slow, I would think... but I can't really tell 21:07:36 it's ok. CL is nicer to write in 21:07:47 Dynetrekk: oh, haskell is plenty fast for lots of thigns 21:07:59 just not the sorts of things I was doing (stochastic simulations, etc.) 21:08:04 salex: python is easier to learn, by far :) 21:08:12 Ogedei [n=user@e178194107.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:08:12 salex: ah, okay 21:08:15 maybe. depends where you're coming from 21:08:30 (defun foo-type-p (bar) ...) (deftype foo-type () `(satisfies foo-type-p)) ; I see this pattern a lot. What is the benefit of the function there, beyond saving a call to `typep'? 21:08:31 python is becoming a much nicer matlab replacement that it used to be, certainly 21:08:51 numpy is nice (not to repeat myself) 21:08:53 it's not particularly nice for things you might use metaprogramming techniques for etc. 21:09:10 repnop: yeah, for what it covers. It was nascent when I needed it, as noted above 21:09:28 -!- bryte [n=user@c-24-21-34-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:09:37 Er, wait, you need to use the function there for more complicated logic. 21:09:37 python has great reflection support... 21:09:40 salex: you're probably right. I think it's vastly better than matlab, as matlab is too specialized math stuff, and bloody heavy 21:09:49 but of course lisp macros beat python 21:10:08 matlab is a lousy general programming language, but has nice pacagkes and is great for numerical linalg 21:10:16 For a simple case of (defun foo-type-p (bar) (member bar baz)) is it advisable to simply use (deftype foo-type () `(member baz-1 baz-2)) instead? 21:10:50 salex: you have that in scipy.linalg :) lapack, etc.. 21:10:55 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:11:04 no, you have some of that in scipy (but it's getting better) 21:11:11 matlab notation for it is a lot nicer :) 21:11:17 salex: granted, that could be 21:11:18 anyway, matlab is what it is 21:11:28 salex: yep, matrix masturbation 21:11:38 a lot of money in that, some places 21:11:46 and for them, that's brilliant 21:12:17 for research work i see python as a so-so language with a nice community. tradeoffs will depend on what you need 21:12:39 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:12:40 nullwork [n=kyle@c-24-245-23-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:50 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 21:12:51 easy enough to call c functions from python for those edge cases at least :) 21:13:05 they aren't edge cases 21:13:14 and if the c function doesn't exist, you've got to write it 21:13:24 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.169.62] has quit ["[] replace PHP, which itself seems destined to the life of an over-implemented, omni-present scripting language embrace] 21:13:50 salex: this is where jython is nicer :) 21:13:54 which is the problem I was talking about above: if I've got to write it anyway, I'd rather do it in CL than in C 21:13:58 though possibly slower 21:14:11 yeha, that doesn't really solve the problem 21:14:24 salex: depends on the problem, possibly 21:14:29 salex: what about CLpython? 21:14:56 Dynetrekk: why? writing lisp is nicer than writing python. 21:15:05 (i know you don't realise this yet :P 0 21:15:47 salex: hehe, I certainly don't realise this yet. I might some day. at this rate, it won't be while I'm alive, though 21:15:53 antoni [n=antoni@238.pool85-53-19.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 21:16:14 i need to get up to date..all the books i read on clisp are from the 80s 21:16:29 but even back then it was a nice language imo 21:17:02 good stuff online at least 21:18:17 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:18:20 -!- azuk [i=azure@s2.org] has left #lisp 21:18:22 azuk [i=azure@s2.org] has joined #lisp 21:19:31 all right, I'm going to bed. good night. 21:19:34 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [] 21:20:10 -!- Cronos [n=a@5ad4112f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:20:55 So, without a REPL in Slime, how do you communicate? 21:24:18 tic: in a scratch buffer i suppose 21:24:18 tic: C-c C-c, C-c C-p, etc. 21:26:01 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:46 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:34 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:27:43 -!- runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:27:57 afa [n=afa@131.152.178.51] has joined #lisp 21:28:03 runenes [n=runenes@proxy-gw.uib.no] has joined #lisp 21:30:46 well yeah, but the output? 21:30:55 loz [n=loz@105.b.002.gsf.iprimus.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:32:32 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:01 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:33:47 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:34:31 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 21:34:59 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:35:13 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:35:57 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:36:30 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbff32.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:07 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:38:12 bryte [n=user@c-24-21-34-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:42 Hello Fare 21:40:06 hi, ksergio 21:40:49 I enjoyed your talk much. (I already had plans so I couldnt stay for drinks) 21:41:41 thanks 21:42:52 slightly updated slides: http://fare.tunes.org/computing/evolutionism-slides.html 21:43:04 which of the attendees were you? 21:43:21 heh. god, of course :P 21:44:32 well. um. how to explain. I was like 3 rows from the front. 21:44:42 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-84-191.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:46 -!- jbjohns [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 21:45:26 the non-french speaker? 21:45:59 no 21:47:33 -!- bryte [n=user@c-24-21-34-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:47:42 in any case... glad you enjoyed it. I hope it was inspiring in some way. 21:47:51 and/or enlightening 21:48:02 anyway, I found the metaphores inspiring. 21:48:13 yeah 21:48:17 user_ [n=user@p54924503.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:58 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:49:55 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:50:38 bryte [n=user@c-24-21-34-206.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:34 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:55:36 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:26 cytochromeb6f [n=maxharri@eagleheights-115-167.resnet.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 21:58:35 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbff32.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:45 how would i go about writing a macro that implemented c-style access to structures? (e.g., thing.x) 22:00:39 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:05 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.166.9] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:01:17 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:01:46 -!- malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbff32.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:09 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:03:45 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:57 Fare: ahhh, you're the XCVB guy :) 22:05:00 Fare: if you'd care to get somewhat more users, it might be nice to create some minor examples of it (the smaller the better, usefulness is overrated for examples) as to motivate people. 22:05:52 Guest68546 [n=rpg@75-168-119-252.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:53 the speach might have been good, but with only the slides it felt motivating, just not immediately clear for what. The comparison is somewhat funny :) 22:06:48 cytochromeb6f:inadvisedy? 22:07:57 clhs ~f 22:07:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cca.htm 22:08:22 salex: sure, it might be a bad idea, but how do i do it? 22:08:22 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has left #lisp 22:10:41 *Krystof* cries about printing floats 22:10:52 write another c-to-lisp-compiler? 22:11:07 Krystof: oh carp, not again! 22:11:18 I'd almost forgot about the ~f page 22:11:30 -!- Guest68546 is now known as rpg 22:12:03 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 22:12:04 -!- rpg is now known as Guest38396 22:13:18 * (format t "~6F ~6F" 0.0720209929250856 0.0833958418981752) 22:13:19 .07202 0.0834 22:13:25 does that make any sense? 22:15:12 Yes. 22:15:42 ...ok 22:15:47 `Exactly w characters will be output'. 22:15:52 with you so far 22:16:04 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-101-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:36 The first value is rounded down, and the second is rounded up. What am I missing? 22:17:00 the absence of a leading 0 in the first, and its presence in the second 22:17:11 Riastradh: it leads with 0 in the 2nd one 22:17:36 both seem consistend with the spec at a glance, but doing it differently is at best counterintuitive 22:17:48 (since d arg isn't given) 22:18:32 wait, "constraint that no trailing 0 digits may appear" 22:18:45 `If the parameter /d/ is omitted, then there is no constraint on the number of digits to appear after the decimal point. A value is chosen for /d/ in such a way that as many digits as possible may be printed subject to the width constraint imposed by the parameter /w/ and the constraint that no trailing zero digits may appear...' 22:19:06 In the first number, a leading zero would cause a trailing zero. 22:20:24 trittweil [n=rittweil@rayhalle1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 22:20:36 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70d7b6.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:21:01 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-132-215.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:21:36 -!- avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:44 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:17 ok, my intuition is shot 22:22:26 -!- afa [n=afa@131.152.178.51] has quit [] 22:22:40 Floats are hard. (Also, decimal is a pain.) 22:22:50 printing floats will do that 22:23:36 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@tmo-100-189.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:24:39 is there a way to change a clim pane's background color without recreating the pane? 22:25:48 -!- Guest38396 is now known as rpg 22:26:19 -!- rpg is now known as Guest46491 22:27:17 madnificent, I did include some examples like 10 days ago 22:27:28 beach [n=user@58.186.166.9] has joined #lisp 22:27:31 -!- Guest46491 is now known as rpg 22:27:31 Good morning. 22:27:37 hi beach 22:27:43 Hello beach. 22:27:44 beach: good morning! Still in VN? 22:28:02 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:28:10 toi xin chuc anh mot nam moi tot dep 22:28:58 Fare: cam on em! 22:29:09 cavelife_ [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has joined #lisp 22:29:10 Fare: yeah, still here. 22:29:15 madnificent, what comparison? 22:29:45 hola 22:30:23 hey beach, I was just asking if there is any way to change a clim pane's background color without recreating the pane? 22:31:28 slyrus_: doesn't look like it, but you can change the medium background. 22:31:45 I tried that, doesn't seem to do anything... 22:32:07 Fare: evolution of how we think about our evolution 22:32:27 Fare: are they in the link? (and code-examples?) 22:32:33 slyrus_: It wouldn't surprise me if you had to paint a large rectangle with background ink after changing it. 22:33:19 madnificent, they are in the README plus the *.example files in the doc/ directory 22:34:15 at this point, xcvb is only usable if you migrate one project at a time only 22:34:39 I'll be working on getting it to work with multiple projects some time soon, hopefully 22:35:13 avdi [n=avdi@216.230.102.194] has joined #lisp 22:35:55 so if you have one big lisp project that you want to compile in parallel while enforcing dependencies, xcvb can already help you 22:36:02 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.245.141] has quit ["He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the aby] 22:36:05 (luckily, that's what we have at ITA) 22:36:11 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 22:36:13 Fare: perhaps write a blog-post about it, so it appears on planet.lisp.org? I may take a look at it some day, but it isn't really priority. With the post about XCVB I just noticed that I wasn't really attracted to use it (whilst by most things, I get excited) 22:36:21 but if you want to fully replace ASDF, it's not ready yet 22:38:34 ahhh, the hype will be created later then :) 22:39:59 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 22:41:12 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 22:41:33 -!- cavelife [n=cavelife@211.201.172.41] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:42:04 I'd rather hype it when it's ready than too early. 22:42:13 Right now, I'm more looking for fellow developers 22:42:55 and even then, they'd have to be pretty enthusiastic to touch the code before I refactor it according to the new understanding (as detailed in TODO). 22:44:27 Fare: I haven't really dug into either XCVB nor mudballs, but if you are having an overlap, it might be a good idea to try to become compatible/extensible from/to that 22:44:34 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:47 yowza! 22:45:15 how far are we coming on that "world domination" task i assigned you guys? report. my desk. 10 seconds! 22:46:12 z0d: you around? need to ask you a buncha questions 22:46:23 fusss: just arrived from badminton 22:46:24 -!- mindCrime [n=chatzill@74.213.159.129] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9b5/2008043010]"] 22:46:30 perfect timing 22:46:49 woah! i played the cock-game; it's like tennis, for lazy people. 22:47:04 fusss: what?! 22:47:15 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:47:22 badminton is for lazy people? I think you don't know what badminton is 22:47:30 -!- user_ [n=user@p54924503.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 22:47:33 madnificent: badminton has "shuttlecock" for, ummm, a ball. school-yard joke. 22:47:50 m_f_k [n=user@78.107.237.47] has joined #lisp 22:47:54 ohhh, right :) 22:48:03 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.253.3] has joined #lisp 22:48:13 z0d: quarter the size of a tennis court with a shuttlecock that ways lighter than a gram of shoddy heroine 22:48:45 Takraw is for athletes; badminton is something to do with friends :-) 22:49:01 but enough of non-hunchentoot topics 22:49:34 fusss: just make sure you wwatch it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufZILcc_cw8 22:50:03 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A23DD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:50:05 the court is smaller, but believe it or not, you run more than on a tennis match 22:50:25 it's an olympic game since 1991 22:50:30 z0d: what a turnoff! I was thinking I'd see a video of hunchentoot (really) 22:51:26 madnificent: not now.. "somebody is WRONG on the Internet!" 22:51:58 it is called #php 22:52:42 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:57 z0d: *sigh* long distance call. be back in an hour :-S 22:52:59 z0d: fusss is right only in the sense that you can play at a slighly lazier minimal pace than you can in tennis. tells you nothing about people actually playing hard. 22:53:29 Yuuhi` [n=user@p5483CCD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:43 iow, you can survive being hit with a badminton shuttlecock struck at full force :-) 22:53:55 or a tennis ball 22:54:14 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.240.72] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:54:19 they're both pretty forgiving sports that way :) 22:54:31 -!- cytochromeb6f [n=maxharri@eagleheights-115-167.resnet.wisc.edu] has quit [] 22:54:53 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:55:09 fusss: yes. though it can be a pain. the maximum speed of a jump smash was around 350 km/h on a championship (i.e. real game) 22:55:39 -!- m_f_k [n=user@78.107.237.47] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:56:01 I think that video is on youtube as well 22:56:16 decafbad [n=mehmet@88.252.97.152] has joined #lisp 22:56:59 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:00:16 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:55 Have you got the reddit in Lisp/huncentoot video's? 23:01:33 whose title was something like "reddit in N minutes"? 23:01:53 I forget the title.. 23:02:47 younder: this one: http://www.guba.com/watch/3000033141 ? 23:03:02 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless107.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:03:36 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:03:58 z0d: oddly no. this one was written with SBCL 23:03:58 -!- mulander [n=opera@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:04:13 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:28 madnificent, I talked with the mudballs guy. At this point, XCVB isn't ready as a defsystem replacement, so it's not suitable to replace either ASDF or mudballs' defsystem. But when it is ready, I'll try to convince the mudballs guy to adopt it. 23:04:37 -!- peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:04:49 ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-75-33-233-47.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:50 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:55 younder: what difference does that make? do you mean hunchentoot? 23:04:57 peter_12 [n=peter@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:59 -!- ramus` [n=ramus@adsl-75-33-233-47.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 23:05:13 z0d: yes 23:06:17 hrm...: The value 0.0d0 is not of type (OR (SINGLE-FLOAT (0.0)) (DOUBLE-FLOAT (0.0d0)) (RATIONAL (0))). [Condition of type TYPE-ERROR] 23:06:20 younder: http://www.lispcast.com/wordpress/2007/10/lispcast-writing-a-simple-reddit-clone-in-common-lisp/ 23:06:25 I'm just curious that there are in fact two video's from different autors of the same thing 23:06:33 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:06:44 z0d: tha's the one 23:06:52 given the content, not so surprising i think 23:07:03 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:08:23 slyrus: Press C in debugger, inspect the 0.0d0 23:09:26 slyrus_: did you take the log of 0? (: 23:09:41 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 23:09:53 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E737.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:09:59 (no, that'd get to the FP trap, if any) 23:10:07 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.4.0.180] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:10:22 pkhuong: no, perhaps I need to use a constant for the by subclause of a for ... in a loop 23:12:01 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-10-71.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:13:48 Any CLSQL nerds awake? 23:14:07 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:37 mib_o4kc2e [i=18504046@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9201fd3cab86c98c] has joined #lisp 23:14:57 slyrus_: seems it has to be a positive number. 23:15:05 rlpowell: have you joined the maillist? 23:15:31 -!- mib_o4kc2e [i=18504046@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9201fd3cab86c98c] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:09 Fare: very good 23:16:13 that's a rather unhelpful error message :) 23:16:15 younder: No; this is the first time I've had a question, and it seems like it must be a FAQ. 23:16:37 clhs 6.1.2.1.1 23:16:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_abaa.htm 23:16:58 rlpowell: ask, maybe we can answer it 23:17:06 "The loop keyword by marks the increment or decrement supplied by form3. The value of form3 can be any positive number." 23:17:17 rlpowell: I'm not a CLSQL-guy, but just shoot questions in this channel (well, not too many ;)) 23:17:35 How do I run a select against a lower-case already-existing MySQL table? 23:18:04 rlpowell: |foo| ? 23:18:05 None of: :from 'table, :from "table", or :from :|table| work. 23:18:16 hey wait a minute, I used to use clsql, I think 23:18:29 Is :|foo| different from |foo| ? 23:18:35 yes 23:18:42 rlpowell: both have "foo" as their name. 23:18:45 The variable |users| is unbound. 23:18:53 the : put's in the keyword package 23:18:54 (using :from |foo| ) 23:19:09 (well, :from |users|, rather) 23:19:14 but it shoun't make any difference 23:19:18 -!- Ogedei [n=user@e178194107.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:19:30 younder: what you mean written in sbcl? it's sbcl + ht 23:19:48 fusss: yes 23:19:49 rlpowell: you still have to quote the symbol. 23:19:49 Well, |users| fails with: The variable |users| is unbound. 23:20:07 but that should fail just as well as :|foo|. 23:20:10 rlpowell: raw queries (query "SELECT * FROM table_dimunative") 23:20:11 :|users| fails by doing SELECT ID FROM 'users' 23:20:35 fusss: If I wanted to do *that*, I'd just fork a mysql proc. :) 23:20:37 <_dd> my google-fu is failing to find a package to parse mbox files (a la RFC 822). cl-user.net has an rfc2822 package which is just a shell. 23:20:37 SQL is per default case insensitive 23:20:39 rlpowell: (select 'name 'author_id :from 'authors :order-by 'name) worked for me 23:20:46 <_dd> any suggestions? 23:20:54 rlpowell: but have you tried it? (the raw query) 23:20:58 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 23:21:10 z0d: What statement did it generate? Some MySQLs have case sensitivity turned off. 23:21:22 i.e. it may be generating "SELECT ... FROM AUTHORS ..." 23:21:44 rlpowell: I don't have MySQL now, I looked up an older source of mine. 23:22:05 Ah. '|users| seems to have worked. 23:22:17 Thanks, all; I'd never used the |...| stuff before. 23:22:51 _dd: cl-mime 23:23:09 _dd: i nearly wrote a tutorial for it as well, but cliki frobbed it and i retracted it 23:24:06 <_dd> i'll take a look. I was not initially interested in MIME; I just need headers out of a mailbox 23:24:24 *_dd* wanted to be lazy 23:24:41 I just use quotes in clsql 23:24:53 _dd: every few months i write a small mail processing utitlity and never bother to learn e-mail properly 23:25:06 *younder* looked at his old 'blog' software 23:25:23 _dd: oh, here it is my snippet http://paste.lisp.org/display/71961 23:25:41 younder: you have blog software? hunchentoot-ware? 23:26:08 i'm writing one now (not "right now", but it's pushed into my *projects* 23:26:17 fusss: No I wrote it myself. In hunchentoot 23:26:35 younder: yeah, i wrote mine myself too, in hunchentoot 23:26:51 whip it out, let's compare :-P 23:27:02 mine started the day before yesterday 23:27:11 well it's a few files 23:27:16 fusss: I wrote the basis of one then too! :D 23:27:45 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:27:47 younder: mine is 5 functions. in your face! hah! 23:28:25 fusss: 'show 'index 'add (which other ones?) 23:29:08 fuss: mine is 9 files. But it probaly has more functionality 23:29:42 this is my official public threat to WordPress 23:29:46 It can handle multiple users and multiple blogs 23:29:54 http://s5.tinypic.com/20jfyps.jpg 23:29:55 fusss: LoL 23:29:59 -!- rpg [n=rpg@75-168-119-252.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [] 23:30:28 mine is like fusss's, but I have an author! :) 23:31:18 blogs of the world, unite! 23:31:47 z0d: nooo, multiply! We will crush wordpress by sheer number of blogs, instead of users! 23:31:58 perhaps my bug reporting web app is of more interest? 23:32:06 that was tougher.. 23:32:12 younder: do you have git integration? 23:32:13 at least you aren't all writing scheme implementations :P 23:32:15 madnificent: that would need much more Lisp hackers 23:32:27 madnificent: no 23:32:44 z0d: evolutionary programming :P Just let them all loose and see which ones generate unknowing users 23:32:55 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-52-157.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:53 younder: well, some screenshots are most certainly welcome. I was thinking of writing one of those once the framework somewhat stabilises (as to see if there are any limitations or things I should make better) 23:34:45 -!- Yuuhi` [n=user@p5483CCD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:35:00 well mine was based on bugzilla 23:35:16 younder: is it somewhere online? 23:35:30 younder: I was thinking more in the direction of trac, myself 23:35:33 No, I have keptit to myself 23:36:26 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:39:19 It's a long story 23:40:56 let's just say ther is a it of animosity between me and Zack 23:42:00 Zack? is he on lisp? and fair, it's your call anyways :) A screenshot, perhaps? 23:42:00 which one? 23:43:21 <_dd> fusss: unfortunately that doesn't deal with the headers part, which is actually what I need. oh well, no big deal. 23:43:43 madnificent: You realy want bug tracking software? 23:44:23 I never wrote anything to that scale yet 23:44:31 younder: no, I'm curious how it looks :) 23:44:31 hardly a shortage of options 23:44:33 but I am preparing 23:45:03 I'll see what I can do 23:45:03 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:50 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:46:28 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:47 madnificent: give me a bit of time. like 24 hours 23:47:36 younder: you shouldn't put too much time in it. It is only to see, so if it is not readily available... 23:47:51 younder: I'm glad there are many lispers working on web-stuff 23:48:35 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:41 yes Edi Weitz, andB9 in hanburg 23:50:27 hey, only germans are developing web-apps in lisp? 23:51:26 is fusss german? 23:51:52 madnificent: have you hear of prime trader? 23:52:07 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64.252.6.160] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:52:15 look it up 23:52:30 mooglenorph [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 23:54:06 younder: google isn't exactly helpful 23:54:32 mulligan [n=user@e178048069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:55:56 ok, this may seem like a dumb question 23:56:07 but is it possible to manipulate memory etc, through lips? 23:56:10 lisp* 23:56:19 try this: http://www.netfonds.se/manual_pt.php 23:56:24 Yes, e.g. with CONS <-: 23:56:42 CONS i assume is a keyword 23:56:57 which memory? foreign memory or lisp memory? 23:56:58 archangelpetro: what kind of memory manipulation do you mean? 23:58:24 well, pointers i ugess 23:58:41 you have to be more specific 23:58:49 would it be possible, for instance, to inject code into a running process, or maybe hook a DLL? 23:58:52 a pointer to what? 23:58:56 well 23:58:57 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 23:59:09 hmm 23:59:09 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:59:53 <_3b> most lisps let you do both 23:59:54 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-10-71.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [] 23:59:56 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]