00:00:00 drewc: hmm, yep, this looks very interesting 00:00:03 nyef: coming up on 5 for me. 00:00:06 is it available now? 00:00:07 nyef: It's been a year and a half since I started using lisp and I'm still waiting for seriousness :) 00:00:09 rsynnott: yes 00:00:22 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:00:30 ah, I may mess round with it in the next day or so 00:00:31 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 00:00:43 rsynnott: that darcs repo will run the example code. 00:00:54 if it doesn't there a bug somewhere 00:01:06 cYmen: As for seriousness, I started with a disassembler, and that quickly grew itself a CPU simulator... 00:01:11 my first post to CLL was 2002; still an idiot though :-P 00:01:29 nyef: I'm to much of a pessimist to even start a project like that :) 00:01:36 fusss: funny, that's around when I stopped reading CLL =p 00:01:49 nyef: yep, me too. i386 disassembler 00:01:53 cYmen: That was my third attempt at writing that disassembler. The prior two were in C. 00:02:11 fusss: Bah. i386 is easy enough, the manual has the decode tables in the back. 00:02:23 O_o 00:02:24 hefner: i ever posted 5 time to cll, but i read it often, at least the bits by the two pascals. 00:02:33 cYmen: in a sense we are building something new.. ucw-core is like a meta-level for ucw itself :) 00:02:53 I never got into c.l.l; too much spam 00:02:56 nyef: the opcode tables are there because the mod-sib-fck crap is a pain 00:02:58 kzar: solution: move to BSD! You'll get pf... 00:03:22 fusss: It is that. Not to mention the prefix bytes! 00:03:46 i used to read c.l.l religiously... but after i read a lot of the archives i realized there is little new left to be discussed in that forum. 00:04:08 (Ever encode mov eax, [bx+si+XXXX] in a code32 segment? Bleh.) 00:04:10 drewc: you're missing some great ruby snippets lately 00:04:22 fusss: oh yeah .. and that guy. 00:04:35 kenny is entertaining, though 00:04:43 indeed :) 00:04:56 -!- sooth [n=user@bas16-montreal02-1176028474.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 00:05:14 kenny is cool, too bad he wears his heart on his sleeve 00:05:31 (that luridly coloured opengl-based inspector was one of the funniest things I've ever seen) 00:05:51 HET4 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 I must say, Google Groups puts me off 00:05:55 half the people he deals with are anti-social nitwits; if i was ever near nyc i will call the fucker up and take him drinking. 00:05:59 -!- hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:06:16 I don't like the new version, and my ISP is too new to hve ever had an nntp server 00:06:36 rsynnott: old ISPs just turn their nntp servers off 00:07:04 the one I used to be with still has one in pretty good repair 00:07:09 rsynnott: i'm planning to setup a free usenet server at tech.coop this year as well. 00:07:17 newzbot.com; though gmane has proven more useful than usenet for me 00:07:31 but the phone company hasn't quite decided whether the building I live in exists, so I couldn't get DSL 00:07:32 with spam filters and all those goodies, but only for a few groups. 00:07:59 rsynnott: what? ROFLMAO 00:08:24 oh dear. 00:08:26 does you building have wheels by any chance? :-P 00:08:30 the govt made the STUNNINGLY GOOD decision to privatise it inthe 90s; it has basically fallen apart since 00:09:22 (in work, the engineer who came to set up the phone lines in our new building let us know that, while the website listed our exchange as ADSL2+ enabled, that was actually more vague intention than fact) 00:09:40 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host181-178-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 00:10:08 rsynnott: haha .. you can't imagine how strange that sounds to a guy sitting in a boat on a dock with water, cable, broadband and power. :) 00:10:24 oh, I've got cable, which is fine and surprisingly cheap 00:10:32 it's just the phone company that has issues :) 00:10:47 drewc: you lucky sob 00:10:58 wol [n=wol@c-24-4-220-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:59 rsynnott: ah ok :) 00:11:24 (first and last state company to be privatised, huge hype and half the country bought shares, followed by abrupt collapse, purchase by private equity company, and stagnation) 00:11:39 it was bad enough that it put them off privatising the transport and electricity, fortunately 00:12:12 the private equity company is currently trying to flog it, for a fraction of what they bought it for 00:14:01 I believe that a year and a half on, though, this building finally has proper telephones! 00:14:24 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:14:54 drewc: my family were ship-makers; 500 years at least. too bad, none of us sail anymore. 00:15:22 my brother and father are quite keen on boats; never saw the point myself 00:16:00 I'd be very suspicious of anything a government chooses to privatize. If it made a profit, why not keep it? 00:16:06 rsynnott: "A boat is a hole in the water that you pour money into"? 00:16:25 nyef: not if it's someone else's 00:16:26 -!- caliostro [n=chatzill@host-84-222-128-70.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 00:16:31 that's almost exactly what my mum said on the subject, actually 00:16:39 (nyef's quote) 00:16:40 *fusss* "brags" he was born in somalia ^_^ 00:16:49 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:16:54 i just don't actually believe one can legitimately own land. 00:17:20 and love the sea, which nobody can claim to own. 00:17:26 hefner: oh, it didn't; before it was privatised it was required to provide services in places where it was not economically viable 00:17:34 fusss: that's interesting! :) 00:17:37 as it was after it was privatised; that was sort of the problem 00:18:12 it seems to have been privatised based on the premise that private companies are more efficient than state ones, and thus it would magically be profitable 00:18:39 drewc: in most countries, you can't, depending on definition of 'own' 00:19:01 a few countries, notably france, do have some land which is held under terms where the state can't use eminent domain 00:19:18 property is not good for your chakra. /me commences drum circle! 00:20:08 rsynnott: yes, but many people still 'buy', as such. It makes little sense to rent housing either ... and you do have to live somewhere. a boat is one solution. 00:20:45 maybe not the sanest one, but WFM :) 00:20:45 I'm happy enough renting 00:20:57 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-105-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:03 buying would have been totally mad for the last few years, and probably will be for some years to come 00:22:31 if a lisp newbie comes now, he would have the wrong impression that we're kind hospitable and down to earth people. let's keep it up. 00:22:40 drewc: is it cheaper than living in a sublet? 00:22:54 well, actually, we are far off topic arn't we. 00:23:21 z0d: it depends how you define cheap :) 00:23:42 drewc: how long have you been floating now? 00:23:59 fusss: just about a year full on. 00:24:13 drewc: let's see the area first. m^2? 00:24:38 practically speaking, how do you choose your "neighborhood"? can you dock in any port, or does it have to be somewhere designated? like a boat park? 00:25:08 If I'm using MEMBER as a type specifier, do I have to quote the symbols in it or not? 00:25:08 fooquux, memo from tcr: See my slime presentation (http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/slime-talk-2008.pdf), I briefly talked about the different contexts Slime uses (determination of *package* falls among them). 00:25:11 my understanding was that that bit was the expensive one 00:25:24 it can be, 00:25:28 I.e. (MEMBER FOO BAR) or (MEMBER 'FOO 'BAR)? 00:26:05 our dock runs us about $10/mo/ft 00:26:08 rsynnott: is your quasi-fictional building in an economically viable area? 00:26:09 fooquux: no quoting necessary 00:26:15 fe[nl]ix: thanks 00:26:26 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-054-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:26:29 hefner: city center 00:26:41 so rent is down with the recession, but not by much 00:26:45 we pay another fee for use of the facilities (shower laundry mail) 00:27:23 but our dock is not located in the heart of vancouver.. it's up the river 'bout 15 miles 00:27:35 I do know a few unfortunate people who bought flats/houses in the middle of nowwhere for silly money in the last few years 00:27:38 In the fonts I have seen, the single and double quotes are pretty much vertical. I can see why this would be the case for the double quote, because the same glyph is used for starting and ending a string, but is there a reason for this to be the case for a single quote? 00:27:38 beach, memo from fusss_: don't forget to take the "open tour" bus from HCMC to Hanoi. amazing. Or if you wanna head south to the islands, Phu Quoc is a must. 00:27:44 (well, I warned them) 00:28:38 fusss: Thanks for the hint! It won't happen this time, but perhaps sometime in the future. 00:28:39 ok .. i have to go pay one of my contractors and then drink some of his wine to offset the costs. 00:28:46 heheh 00:29:01 drewc: Have fun. 00:29:09 beach: if you're still in HCMC, feel free to ask me for anything :-) 00:29:24 fusss: So you know it pretty well? 00:29:36 beach: lived there several months 00:29:41 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 00:29:58 fusss: Ah, nice. This is my third time here, so I am beginning to find my way around. 00:30:01 district one 00:30:02 Pham Ngu Lao; the crappy foreigner infested area 00:30:19 beach: I forget, did you say that a GUI font editor would be helpful with what you're doing? 00:30:31 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-056-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:41 fusss: This hotel is on Nguyen Thi Minh Khai and Pasteur. Pretty interesting neighborhood where nobody cares about tourists. 00:30:55 beach: perfect! 00:30:58 nyef: No I think I said it would be of limited use. 00:31:03 Ah, okay. 00:31:25 nyef: A font viewer is useful, though, where for different resolutions, you can see the rendering. 00:31:36 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:44 nyef: But I already have such a thing. It comes with Gsharp. 00:32:23 Fair enough, then. 00:32:24 nyef: Since the position of the control points depends on the resolution, you can't reasonably place them graphically. 00:32:56 nyef: But I might be missing some interesting mode of interaction that would allow one to do that. 00:33:05 nyef: If you think of something, I would be interested. 00:34:10 I thought they were positioned in terms of the size of the font and in relation to the other points? 00:34:25 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:34:27 nyef: For instance, there is a common case, where a control point has a vertical curve direction and its horizontal coordinate rounded to the nearest pixel, and symmetrically for horizontal direction and vertical rounding. 00:35:15 Hrm. 00:36:21 If I wanted to read about designing fonts this way, where should I look? 00:36:54 nyef: but things can be artibrarily more complicated. For instance, the distance of the two dots of a colon glyph is detmined as a the max of a small value (such as 5) and a rounded fraction of the font ascent. 00:36:59 -!- merAch` [n=none@c-71-199-20-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:02 nyef: In the Metafont book. 00:37:26 Hrm. 00:39:06 nyef: the `m' glyph has some interesting constraints where all three legs must be the same integral width, and the two spaces must be the same integral width as well. 00:40:52 nyef: For small font sizes, a leg and a space can both be 1 pixel wide, but for larger fonts, you will want to make the spaces wider than the legs. 00:41:58 nyef: If you find a way to express that graphically, I am all ears. 00:42:18 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:37 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:49:29 -!- HET4 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:51:42 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-105-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:52:04 -!- Bucciarati [n=buccia@212.45.155.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:52:41 Bucciarati [n=buccia@212.45.155.126] has joined #lisp 01:01:55 Paraselene__ [n=None@79-67-130-219.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:10 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 01:09:37 lw has the worst list-all-packages output :-P clisp the cleanest. 01:10:06 is that fair? LW probably has a lot more in it. 01:10:14 lw's doesn sort the packages in anyway; newly loaded ones are interspersed with system-provided ones. 01:10:21 ah. 01:10:33 hefner: no it doesn't. a vanilla image has less than ten packages. 01:11:22 it also has "The" in there, like # 01:11:31 see http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/font.png for the latest progress. 01:12:08 alpheus [n=user@c-98-213-176-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:31 beach: interesting. have you examined that lower case 't' up close? 01:12:46 I thought I did. 01:12:53 beach: Cool! You already have a full lowercase set? 01:13:27 nyef: upper and lower case, digits, and the special characters you see in that screenshot. 01:13:38 hefner: what's wrong with it? 01:14:08 beach: it seems to get very narrow toward the bottom right before it turns 01:14:17 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:33 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:14:37 beach: I, at least, find it ugly that there are no line weights in between 1 and 2 pixels. 01:14:45 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 01:15:14 kpreid: Thats a tradeoff. The alternative is to make everything fuzzy. 01:15:14 hmm, 'j' does the same thing 01:15:26 to me it says "HEY! This here is a BITMAP DISPLAY and don't you forget it!" 01:16:01 kpreid: I don't think it's a problem in practice, because one will not often want to mix different size fonts like that. 01:16:31 beach: actually what bothers my eye in that regard is the *inconsistent* fuzziness. e.g. the L is extremely crisp and the w has ripples down its side 01:16:36 hefner: Ah, I can probably fix that. 01:17:05 kpreid: er, that's because one is vertical and the other one is not. 01:17:09 I prefer non-pixel-fitted rendering because then the fuzziness doesn't interact with the font shape in eye-catching ways 01:18:19 kpreid: Well, I don't think there will be a way to satisfy both that preference and the crowd that wants legibility first. 01:19:09 *hefner* likes the numbers best 01:19:17 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:20:19 *_3b* wonders if it would look better without the AA at smaller sizes? (possibly not the smallest though) 01:20:43 beach: I find random bursts of crisp-blurry-crisp-blurry to detract from legibility :) 01:21:01 *kpreid* will shut up now 01:21:15 crisp-blue-crisp-berry 01:21:20 <_3b> hinting horizontal and vertical implies you are sampling a source above the nyquist limit, but then running AA on the angled lines implies it is below the limit 01:21:29 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has joined #lisp 01:21:30 the vertical line on the right edge of the capital G misbehaves at several of the smaller sizes 01:22:10 benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:22:39 _3b: I'm not sure that's true. look at the smallest "w". it would be a black blob, but the AA gives it more structure 01:24:09 <_3b> kpreid: right, at the smallest sizes, you go too far past the nyquist limit, and it doesn't work any more 01:24:12 what the AA is doing to the two-wide exclamation marks is not good though. I would argue that *that particular* character would be better rendered at a half-pixel offset 01:24:20 jbjohns_ [n=chatzill@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 01:24:28 *_3b* sort of likes the ! 01:24:32 _3b: hm? I'm saying that AA is better than non-AA for that character 01:24:43 <_3b> kpreid: i am too :) 01:24:45 -!- antoni [n=antoni@7.pool85-53-25.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:24:59 er, I mean the w 01:26:46 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:27:06 pjb [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 01:27:11 <_3b> kpreid: at the smallest sizes, the structure of the letter approaches the nyquist limit, so you need to switch back to AA or lose parts of the letter instead of just losing line weight or whatever 01:27:29 -!- DrForr [n=drforr@eldwist.darkuncle.net] has left #lisp 01:27:39 <_3b> (but as i said, i'm agreeing, just trying to explain how it fits) 01:28:06 oh, I got your remark backwards. 01:28:59 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:33:30 -!- hfoo [n=h@p5B17D4CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:33:45 -!- 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#lisp 02:36:34 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:37:57 manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:33 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:40:09 Might be. 02:40:56 beach [n=user@58.186.166.31] has joined #lisp 02:41:41 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has joined #lisp 02:42:34 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.101.220] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:42:44 -!- manic12 [n=manic12@c-98-227-25-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:42:45 -!- blitz_ [n=julian@77.64.176.217] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 02:43:14 *beach* got disconnected, but thanks everyone for the remarks about the font. 02:45:17 kpreid: you might be right about the exclamation mark. 02:46:13 -!- CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:48:20 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:48:38 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-122.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 02:50:03 CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:50:52 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:51:31 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has joined #lisp 02:51:32 echo-area [i=herbert@114.240.125.252] has joined #lisp 02:54:25 hefner: I can't seem to figure out why the G behaves like that. 02:57:07 hefner: I thought I carefully aligned the right edge on a pixel border. 02:57:18 hefner: Thanks for spotting that problem. 02:58:43 sure thing 03:00:31 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 03:01:40 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:01:42 -!- rme_ [n=rme@pool-70-104-125-14.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:04:01 simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:05:58 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 03:08:14 -!- Guest43987 [n=a@5acc72aa.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 03:11:54 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:56 -!- smolyn|away is now known as smolyn 03:14:44 smolyn_ [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:18 -!- smolyn_ [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:16:49 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 03:18:40 hefner: Found it. Thanks again! 03:21:05 geocar [n=user@pool-71-255-188-128.slsbmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:23 New version at http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/font.png 03:22:50 Turns out the C had the same problem, but it was less visible. 03:23:07 -!- myrkraverk` [n=johann@85-220-123-19.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:24:46 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B5D08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:38 beach: F seems taller than other capital characters :) 03:26:45 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B5D08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:06 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:28:25 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:28:50 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:29:10 echo-area: Right you are! The E had the same problem. Fixed now. 03:29:14 Thanks! 03:30:08 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B631A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:30:55 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:32:26 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:32:48 Collective font debugging is fun! 03:33:34 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.230.81] has quit [] 03:34:55 beach: looking good! 03:35:28 slyrus_: thanks! 03:35:41 although the J is still a bit too rounded for my taste 03:36:06 slyrus_: Yeah, maybe so. 03:38:02 -!- Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit ["Go Canada!"] 03:42:20 carbocalm [n=drjors2@69-196-186-183.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:41 -!- karvus [n=thomas@193.213.35.168] has left #lisp 04:01:34 jjong [n=user@125.176.90.47] has joined #lisp 04:07:43 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:15 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:11:45 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:11:57 trying to write some multithreaded code in sbcl, but it's acting weird 04:12:12 (format t ...) isn't outputting anything to the default stream 04:12:29 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-223.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 04:13:35 (make-thread (let ((stream *standard-output*)) (lambda () (format stream "Hello Threads~%")))) 04:13:40 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:13:42 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-223.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 04:14:09 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 04:14:22 aggieben: If you're in SLIME, have a look at the *inferior-lisp* buffer. 04:14:23 there's an option in SWANK (apropos for globally-redirect-io or something like that) to replace the global stream with one that outputs to slime's REPL 04:14:55 aggieben: You just have a different definition of default from SBCL's. 04:15:24 yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:15:45 thanks. I'll look for that. 04:16:56 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:16:58 hmm. I set swank:*globally-redirect-io* to T, but no output in the REPL 04:17:10 it prints in the *inferior-lisp* buffer, but not in *slime-repl sblc* 04:17:17 aggieben: it's too late. SWANK's already running. 04:17:17 blbrown [n=Berlin@c-71-236-25-127.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:24 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.135.229] has joined #lisp 04:17:29 ah. .swank.lisp, then? 04:17:35 or is even that too late? 04:17:42 No, that's the perfect time. 04:20:23 it's no good. Here's what I do: echo "(setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) >> ~/.swank.lisp; emacs&; CL-USER> (use-package :sb-thread); CL-USER> (make-thread (lambda () (format t "hello!"))) 04:20:31 I get no output on the repl 04:20:58 or in *inferior-lisp*, either, this time 04:21:11 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:26 I left out the 'M-x slime' step, but I'm not leaving that out :-) 04:22:23 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 04:25:01 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:25:56 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.250.96] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:25 Okay, it's time I got some sleep. 04:26:28 -!- nyef [n=nyef@64.222.164.52] has quit ["G'night all."] 04:28:46 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:59 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:36:58 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:41:54 -!- aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fbd9e73806ce56a3] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 04:41:58 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:43:47 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:47:31 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:35 hmm, gigamonkeys.com seems down :) 04:50:49 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:52:30 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279439877.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:55:53 -!- S11001001 [n=sirian@pdpc/supporter/active/S11001001] has quit ["sleep"] 04:56:32 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:56:32 web.archive.org for the rescue 04:57:08 to the* 04:59:34 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:07:21 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-47.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:07:23 lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-250.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:34 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has joined #lisp 05:10:43 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:10:51 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:14:55 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.166.31] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:17:42 legis [n=wad@unaffiliated/legis] has joined #lisp 05:19:23 -!- legis [n=wad@unaffiliated/legis] has left #lisp 05:20:20 alpheus` [n=user@vpn.cashnetusa.com] has joined #lisp 05:21:40 segv__ [n=mb@p4FC1D1A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:58 -!- segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1D1E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:23:50 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:29:05 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 05:32:17 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["*bork bork*"] 05:34:49 -!- alpheus [n=user@c-98-213-176-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:38:42 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:42:57 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:50:55 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E46B31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:59 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 05:54:34 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E4504C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:14:21 -!- lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-250.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:18:38 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:13 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:38:14 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:45:38 pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:14 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.237.78] has joined #lisp 06:52:09 aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c3daa40b7d081a15] has joined #lisp 06:52:57 anyone know of a goog utility-style http request parser? araneida seemed like a good candidate, but I can't get it to load. drakma is only client-side. The inverse of drakma is exactly what I want, though. 06:54:17 -!- __jasonherald__ [n=__jasonh@pool-71-171-38-188.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:57:16 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.233.71] has joined #lisp 06:57:33 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:58:36 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:01:05 -!- aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c3daa40b7d081a15] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:01:10 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:19:58 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.233.71] has quit [] 07:22:04 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:24:47 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:25:02 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:25:21 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:25:45 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:30:50 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:31:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.237.78] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:32:44 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:35:07 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:36:58 dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has joined #lisp 07:37:23 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:38:13 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-153-198.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:16 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-250.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:02 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:12 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:59:03 -!- echo-area [i=herbert@114.240.125.252] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:01:23 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:03:27 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:04:32 benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:27 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:17:04 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 08:20:37 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a16-192.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:22:53 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 08:29:04 -!- Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:30:46 -!- jjong [n=user@125.176.90.47] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:34:28 sunkencity_ [n=sunkenci@h121n2c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:44 -!- spec[Zzzzz] is now known as mrSpec 08:38:47 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.151] has joined #lisp 08:51:04 clemente [n=Daniel@89.6.42.98] has joined #lisp 08:54:33 Hi. Can CLISP's (loop) consume more than 1 element each time? For instance with '(1 2 3 4 5 6) I want to get '(1 2 3) in the first iteration and then '(4 5 6) 08:58:08 vy` [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 08:58:31 beach [n=user@58.186.166.31] has joined #lisp 08:58:35 (loop for (x y z r) on '(1 2 3 4 5 6) by #'cdddr collect (list x y z)) => ((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) 08:58:35 Good afternoon. 08:58:35 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 08:58:36 Not sure if that's a good idea but for x = (subseq list 0 3) would do. 08:58:40 (loop for x on '(1 2 3 4 5 6) by #'cdddr :collect (subseq x 0 3)) 08:58:58 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:59:11 -!- vy` is now known as vy 09:00:45 clemente: CLISP is an implementation of the Common Lisp language, which we abbreviate CL. 09:02:43 thanks; using cdddr is more complex than I expected but it seems to work 09:03:20 I thought there were some functions to iterate vectors which could do that too 09:08:33 And if I wanted groups of five, should I implement cdddddr? :-) 09:08:50 and cddddddddddr etc. 09:09:10 clemente: NTHCDR is your friend. 09:17:04 vy pasted "partition" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72997 09:17:04 clemente: Check above paste out. 09:17:31 (< n m) should be replaced by (<= n m). 09:18:15 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:18:30 -!- carbocalm [n=drjors2@69-196-186-183.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:18:49 :-) In the end the general approach is a bit complex 09:19:22 I remeber Perl had something like foreach ($a,$b,$c) in (1..10) 09:19:57 clemente: Actually, code could be writting using LOOP in a more simplified manner. But, if I'm not mistaken, my paste forces itself to use tail-recursion for speed concerns. 09:20:29 clemente: You can implement such a functionality using macros, and guess what, with exactly same name: FOR. 09:23:45 clemente: OTOH, perl approach lacks the results for (a b c) on '(1 2 3 4 5 6) in a way similar to '((1 2 3) (2 3 4) (3 4 5) (4 5 6)), if I understand your correctly. 09:27:40 right; Perl would consume each symbol once; Lisp, however, iterates over all cdr 09:34:31 seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E46B31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:44 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 09:36:45 clemente: BTW, there may be more user-friendly solutions to the problem in ITERATE or SERIES packages. 09:37:08 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E46B31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:39:24 is a german here in the channel who can help me? please join #lisp.de 09:41:47 vy: thanks, I will try them 09:43:14 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:43:14 -!- dkcl [n=danderse@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:44:09 antoni [n=antoni@213.pool85-53-16.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 09:44:26 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 09:46:58 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:47:39 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-111-247.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:56 nostoi [n=nostoi@120.Red-83-37-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:20 Guest312398 [n=a@5ac6c915.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:57:37 yhara [n=yhara@218-228-195-11.eonet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:58:26 yhara_ [n=yhara@218-228-195-11.eonet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:00:19 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:06:04 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:08:53 -!- drwhen [n=d@209-112-181-104.static.acsalaska.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:09:57 nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:48 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:12:21 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:32 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:15:06 -!- yhara [n=yhara@218-228-195-11.eonet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:19:01 -!- bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:19:39 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@218-228-195-11.eonet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:22:52 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@120.Red-83-37-1.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 10:28:47 Morning. 10:31:00 hello tic_ 10:31:25 sleeping late? 10:32:28 Yeah. Actually got up two hours ago, took my meds and fell asleep again. It's nice to be able to do that on Saturdays. Was thinking about my Swank adventures. 10:33:20 beach, are you still in lala-land? 10:33:55 tic_: I am still in HCM, but I started working yesterday, so you can say that vacation is pretty much over. 10:34:11 beach, what's cooking for 2009? 10:34:56 Same old I guess. Trying to run the teaching programs, and trying to do some research, hopefully related to Lisp. 10:34:59 What about you? 10:36:12 This morning (local time) I designed some more glyphs, just in case someone missed that :) 10:36:19 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-111-247.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:36:49 Not quite sure. Personally, Val d'Isere on Friday for a week of snowboarding, and then my programming goals are a robot simulator (think redcode), an ncurses mcclim background, and vim-ecl-swank in no particular order. 10:37:22 Sounds good. 10:37:36 you lied! there is no fonts.png in my irc client backlog! 10:37:44 font.png 10:37:51 meh. :( 10:38:04 My browser doesn't allow free-form search of URLs/titles in the address field.) 10:38:12 Would I lie to you? 10:38:38 Which are the new glyphs? Or maybe you haven't updated fonts.png ? 10:38:56 no `s'. font.png 10:39:30 The latest ones are # and ". 10:39:54 Previously, `,', `:', and `;'. 10:40:05 Nice. I haven't seen any of the numbers either. It's similar to typical asian fonts. Tall and thin strokes. 10:40:27 *tic_* really likes J 10:40:30 Someone liked the number. I think it was hefner. 10:40:49 tic_: You need to have a discussion with slyrus about the J. He doesn't like it. 10:41:00 beach, blasphemy! It's the best! 10:41:20 OK, I'll keep it then. :) 10:41:26 You better. 10:43:08 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:44:58 is there a function to eliminate duplicates in a list? 10:45:28 robyonrails [n=roby@host181-178-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:45:39 clhs remove-duplicates 10:45:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_dup.htm 10:46:17 ah duh, sequences dictionary, not conses dictionary :-P 10:46:32 Phoodus: the way to check that is to go to the permuted symbol index (under duplicates) in the CLHS. 10:47:06 true, I've seen that but never think to use it for word search 10:48:47 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:49:49 Bzoto [n=pradella@94.36.94.101] has joined #lisp 10:51:20 -!- Guest312398 [n=a@5ac6c915.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 10:53:41 Is pcl down? 10:53:53 Anybody know when it'll be back? 10:56:35 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:59:34 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:59:51 -!- Bzoto [n=pradella@94.36.94.101] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:01:22 Has anyone used hunchentoot-vhost / know where I can find an example of how to use it? (The example included in the README uses a function dispatch-table 11:01:29 that doesn't exist) 11:05:25 kzar: If I'm not mistaken, a virtual host nothing more than a simple request with a differing "Host" header. Thus, you can dispatch different vhost requests according to "Host" headers. 11:05:27 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 11:05:42 schasi [n=schasi@p54A25E18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:43 drewc, rsynnott: not really, and not every userful comment is constructive ;) 11:07:31 vy: I think that's probably how hunchentoot-vhost works 11:07:38 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 11:07:43 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:10:30 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:43 Soulman__ [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:01 rlpowell_ [n=rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 11:11:08 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.166.31] has left #lisp 11:11:46 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:48 _8david` [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:48 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit 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has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:24:02 OK nevermind I got it working, I ended up looking in it's code to see how it works and going off that :o 11:25:25 matley [n=matley@83.225.205.175] has joined #lisp 11:28:15 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28:26 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 11:31:13 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:31:22 new cl-irregsexp release with user macros and some warning fixes -- http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irregsexp/downloads/cl-irregsexp_20090103_1128.tar.gz 11:38:49 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A25E18.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 11:39:02 Krystof [n=csr21@82-35-80-105.cable.ubr03.dals.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:40:48 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-250.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:40:56 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:44:18 -!- lispelot [n=lispelot@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 11:44:50 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-111-247.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:19 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A14B8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:48:09 How would I do this: (defmacro (name) `(setf *,name* ",name")) without the *'s and "'s interfering with the symbol inside the macro? 11:48:36 chris2 [n=chris@p5B1695F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:58 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:49:09 <_3b> ,(intern (format nil "*~a*" name)) ,(symbol-name name) ? 11:49:13 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 11:50:38 <_3b> watch out for package and reader case though 11:50:56 _3b: how do you mean? 11:51:17 -!- jbjohns_ is now known as jbjohns 11:51:42 <_3b> when creating symbols, you sometimes need to be careful about in which package it ends up 11:51:49 ahh right 11:52:18 hopefully *fingers-crossed* that shouldn't be a problem here 11:52:29 <_3b> and the reader case bit is about whether you want "FOO" from 'foo or not 11:55:04 _3b: ok I see, thanks. I think it should all be OK because I'm just getting rid of some hunchentoot-vhost boilerplate crap 11:55:12 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:55:29 pjb [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:57:50 caliostro [n=caliostr@host-84-222-141-170.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:01:42 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 12:05:10 dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 12:07:52 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:08:18 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 12:17:29 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:32 lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-250.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:41 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:23:51 crod [n=cmell@cb8a6f-025.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:24:43 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a16-192.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:26:06 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 12:41:43 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.252] has joined #lisp 12:43:57 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["Verlassend"] 12:45:52 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:45:58 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 12:47:06 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.135.229] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:47:54 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 12:50:59 xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.134.68] has joined #lisp 12:51:07 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:51:35 How do I tell asdf that my system depends on postmodern? I think I need to put it in my .asd somehow, since everything I've tried in my .lisp files just caused errors. (Because the files use symbols from the postmodern package which won't be there until "require" or whatever get evaluated. I'm sure it's something really simple, but I can't figure it out. 12:52:27 pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:27 -!- mrSpec is now known as mrSPec 12:54:31 -!- mrSPec is now known as mrSpec 12:54:55 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec[afk] 12:55:11 koning_robot: study other asdf files 12:55:45 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:55:50 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:56:19 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:56:32 and the student was enlightened 12:59:26 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:59:48 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 13:00:37 ehu`: What's your plan re ansi-tests? 13:01:32 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:01:39 ehu`: I think new tests should go in a new subdirectory; in fact, I think the subdirectory should be named 2009, and each year a new directory should be created. 13:01:57 -!- dys`` [n=andreas@p5B314C99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:02:01 yo 13:02:13 -!- pstickne_ [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:02:16 Modius [n=Modius@davidp4.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:33 beach [n=user@58.186.166.31] has joined #lisp 13:02:37 Good evening. 13:02:52 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 13:03:54 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 13:04:01 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:06:51 hi beach 13:07:20 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:33 nikodemus: any Lisp-related resolutions for 2009? 13:07:38 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 13:08:14 not really, just lots of good intentions :) 13:08:21 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 13:08:36 you? 13:08:41 nikodemus: by the end of the year, they usually turn out to be the same thing. :) 13:09:25 -!- antoni [n=antoni@213.pool85-53-16.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:09:25 nikodemus: nothing particular. 13:09:34 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.243.252] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:12:46 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:14:08 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:14:44 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:14:51 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:14:57 -!- pon][ [n=pon@c-d531e253.516-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:15:07 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 13:15:28 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 13:16:32 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:16:43 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:20:37 elurin [n=user@88.254.101.220] has joined #lisp 13:20:41 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:21:39 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has joined #lisp 13:21:57 jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a6f-025.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a6f-025.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:25:21 nikodemus: Did you see Crosher's comment re. file-position on character-streams on c.l.l.? 13:25:58 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 13:26:50 nope 13:27:14 nikodemus: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/9a57860516b88d37# 13:27:44 nikodemus: Basically, file-position returns the character offset, not the byte-offset on scl. 13:28:15 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.16] has joined #lisp 13:29:24 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:48 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.255.243] has joined #lisp 13:32:20 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.255.243] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36:50 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.244.251] has joined #lisp 13:37:03 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@218.73.134.68] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:37:26 Weird. Code using sockets and threads works on SBCL 1.0.23, but not on 1.0.18. 13:39:12 i would be more worried if it was the other way around 13:39:27 we do aim for improvement, you know 13:40:36 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:40:42 -!- clemente [n=Daniel@89.6.42.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:42:59 a good goal. I hacked on vim-ecl-slime, which did the right thing on my laptop running 1.0.23, but then on my desktop w/ 1.0.18 the length of an :emacs-rex was never sent out, so parse-int failed miserably on "(:emac" 13:43:19 Why aren't threads enabled by default in SBCL? I thought they were stable by now. 13:44:10 tic_: ECL is doing the requests from VIM; the swank server is run on SBCL? 13:44:55 tcr, yup. 13:45:04 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:45:20 the swank server does not send :emacs-rex 13:46:18 so sure it's not a problem with ECL? 13:46:54 right, I'm suspecting there's something fishy w/ threads and/or sockets in sbcl-1.0.18, as ECL is the same and it does indeed send sexp, and I have the same version of ECL (0.9L) on both systems. 13:47:46 -!- brill [n=brill@0x57386060.hrnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 13:49:11 tic_: quite possibly a bug that has since then been fixed -- why do you need 1.0.18? 13:49:34 nikodemus, I don't, pure lazyness. :-) Building 1.0.23 right now. 13:49:44 you know that 1.0.24 is out? 13:49:57 :-) 13:49:59 I heard rumours about it, but couldn't find a download link on the web page. 13:51:03 tic_: 0.9l was rather buggy, why not 8.12.0? 13:51:04 tic_: Just fetch from Git directly. It's rarely broken, and if it is, it's good when people find out. 13:53:37 ASau, I could not get it working with Vim. 13:54:03 tcr, alright, thought it'd be better to err on the safe side and use releases. I'll do that next. 13:54:27 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:54:58 But first 1.0.23 to see if that fixes my problems, then see if I can install the newest ECL and see if I can get that working. Not quite sure why it doesn't work, because it builds fine and all. (it's not loading its startup runtime vim-lisp file for whatever reason) 13:55:33 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:04 Wuju [n=Wuju@unaffiliated/wuju] has joined #lisp 13:57:41 -!- Wuju [n=Wuju@unaffiliated/wuju] has left #lisp 14:00:31 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.101.220] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:01:45 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 14:01:50 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:04:35 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 14:04:41 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279439877.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:05:20 ok, sbcl webpage updated 14:05:37 no binaries yet, though. i blame the holidays 14:09:44 -!- dankna [n=d@ool-43516bc9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["I'm going to bed before either of you come up with another idea to get us killed - or worse, EXPELLED."] 14:11:38 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:13:35 -!- esden [n=esdentem@repl.esden.net] has quit ["leaving"] 14:13:52 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:28 oSand [n=heartles@118-93-73-159.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 14:14:35 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:23 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 14:24:58 disumu [n=disumu@p57A2633D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:52 -!- lemonodor_ [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-250.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 14:29:03 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:29:10 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:30:25 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:19 -!- geocar [n=user@pool-71-255-188-128.slsbmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:31:23 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-27-15.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:31:35 mulligan` [n=user@e178015131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:31:57 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.243.217] has joined #lisp 14:34:14 nyef [n=nyef@64.222.164.52] has joined #lisp 14:34:21 G'morning all. 14:38:02 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:39:53 hi 14:40:25 Anything interesting happening? 14:41:19 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:42:07 -!- caliostro [n=caliostr@host-84-222-141-170.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 14:42:14 pretty quiet 14:42:45 trying to refactor source location stuff a bit, but almost done for the day 14:45:02 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:45:30 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:47:09 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.16] has quit [] 14:47:10 nikodemus: darwin/x86 won't build. I have no idea how to attack the problem (except maybe dedicate a week or two with a machead to go over the port). 14:47:12 Hrm... On x86, long-floats are hardware extended floats? 14:47:36 nyef: yeah, x87 80 bit floats. 14:47:57 pkhuong: If it's darwin, and not macosx, can you just throw the free version in a VM and bisect? 14:47:59 pkhuong: strange. i've been building on that all day 14:48:00 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178027156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:48:24 Hrm. May have to resurrect long-floats on x86 to make the debugger not suck. 14:48:54 The floating-point register values in the sigcontext are all in the 80-bit format. 14:48:55 nyef: I have os x, and I'm not sure the so-called darwin port ever worked on !OS X (: 14:49:20 I'll try with a new host. 14:49:20 milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.13] has joined #lisp 14:49:28 Hrm. Thought it did, as there was some trouble over the differences between the two? 14:49:32 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:49:49 pkhuong: oh, are you building on !OS X? 14:49:55 nikodemus: no. 14:50:02 Your problem could be dependent on the version of OSX and/or the version of the apple dev tools. 14:50:10 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.244.251] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:50:14 how does it fail? 14:50:30 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.16] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 gc invariant loss (unexpected forwarding pointer). 14:51:00 in the target? 14:51:15 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:51:25 yes. 14:52:40 threads or no? 14:53:16 Meh. 1.0.23 didn't fix my problem. Hrm. 14:53:16 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:31 no threads. 14:53:59 1.0.24.? 14:55:12 (that is, what host, what target?) 14:55:19 I'm rebuilding a 1.0.24 host 14:55:48 so 1.0.24 on 1.0.24? 14:56:42 the target's been failing here since 1.0.23.[not a lot]. 14:57:03 It used to be 1.0.22.17/x86-64. 14:58:47 Hmm, the SBCL buildbot is down. That would have been helpful I suppose? 14:58:50 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:01:36 luis: looks like a toolchain issue, though. 15:02:04 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a6f-025.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:02:05 antoni [n=antoni@50.pool85-53-29.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 15:02:07 pkhuong: can you put up a binary that fails as host and tree that fails as target somewhere, along with the full path you build in? (eg. /Users/Paul/src/sbcl/foo/ -- or whatever) 15:02:49 hey 15:02:51 i'd like to try to reproduce this 15:03:01 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:03:02 got any ideas how to make common-lisp-indent-function indent properly for my macro? 15:03:18 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 15:03:40 weirdo pasted "badly indented macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73005 15:03:53 nikodemus: if it magically works with 1.0.24 as the host, I'm happy ignoring the issue. 15:04:03 reinitialize-instance should be indented at the 'n' letter of 'init' 15:04:52 tried indenting like 'defun or 'defgeneric, but that didn't help 15:05:24 use slime, define the macro as (defmacro init (form &body body) ...), evaluate the definition 15:05:41 slime knows that &body is indented differently 15:05:46 it's (name supers &optional slots options &body cases) 15:06:01 nikodemus: oh, that's interesting. 15:06:34 defining the CASES as macros for indentation purposes is an interesting idea 15:06:36 but it thinks 'init' is a function call 15:06:50 weirdo: do what nikodemus said then 15:06:51 Umm... You have both &optional and &body? 15:07:07 time for a new style warning 15:07:31 oh, right, what was i thinking 15:07:43 mathrick [n=mathrick@195.116.35.13] has joined #lisp 15:08:54 "caught STYLE-WARNING: what are you thinking?" 15:08:56 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:09:26 ferada [n=ferada@g224145158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:35 Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #lisp 15:09:42 is gigamonkeys down? 15:10:04 nikodemus: works with 1.0.24/x86-64 as the host. WFM! 15:11:17 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:11:23 huh 15:12:07 looks like it might be 15:13:36 what server did gigamonkeys use? 15:14:42 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:40 idk but i figured out what i was doing wrong 15:16:13 jestocost [n=cmell@cad43e-027.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:16:39 moptilities is much better than mop-utils. 15:19:16 the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B5D08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:56 agemo_ [i=jovdmeer@infogroep.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:22:34 -!- prip_ [n=_prip@host41-133-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:34 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.16] has quit [] 15:23:37 both ECL-0.9I and 8.12.0 makes vim-ecl to stop working. Looks like there's something odd going on with gray streams. 15:25:43 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:25:50 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.16] has joined #lisp 15:27:28 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:28:26 tomsw [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has joined #lisp 15:28:46 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-115.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:28:54 *sigh* 15:29:30 -!- agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:30:15 Does anybody have an idea about how to introduce a (read) size limit on a flexi-stream? 15:30:34 agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:30:54 prip_ [n=_prip@host202-132-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:31:19 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:31:44 -!- agemo_ [i=jovdmeer@infogroep.vub.ac.be] has quit ["phoenix revives from its ashes!"] 15:34:22 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:37:20 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 15:49:02 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:24 weirdo: also, you might want to consider splitting those clauses into generic functions, maybe? 15:53:29 mega1 [n=mega@53d824d1.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:54:02 nikodemus: did you mention some kind of deadlock detector recently? 15:54:14 luis, the form expands into a progn with defmethods 15:54:43 yeah, given the indentation error the form isn't all that useful 15:55:11 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:55:33 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:55:38 weirdo: I don't think you gain much by stuffing all in one form, on the contrary. 15:55:53 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:58:28 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.253.251] has joined #lisp 15:59:13 ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:02:10 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 16:02:46 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.95] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:03:56 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:24 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [Client Quit] 16:07:17 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 16:07:43 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:08:06 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:10:37 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A2633D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:11:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 16:11:29 -!- xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.243.217] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:13:24 mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has joined #lisp 16:14:28 decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.61.164] has joined #lisp 16:15:44 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 16:16:00 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:15 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:20:35 Hrm. Shouldn't (SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (62)) type-check w/ check-type for string? 16:23:18 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:25:52 no, because it's a list 16:26:02 perhaps you should express your actual question more clearly? 16:27:34 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:28:06 I'm afraid that wouldn't help much. But OK. I've inherited the code for the Vim-ECL bindings, and gray:stream-write-char for the buffer bound to *s-o* calls another function, vim:msg, on #\Newline. Now, vim:msg has (check-type str string) to make sure it's not called with bad data. Obviously, that fails. 16:28:16 s/obviously/apparently/ 16:30:39 tic pasted "check-type oddities" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73011 16:32:23 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 16:32:24 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Success] 16:32:57 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:02 good morning 16:33:43 kzar: just saw the logs. see the gmane tbnl archives on hunchentoot virtual hosting. *very* straightforward IMO, someone had it working with half a page of code. 16:34:33 the point of Gray streams is that you can extend the interface with CLOS? 16:35:01 tic annotated #73011 with "The two string types." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73011#1 16:35:06 tic_: you mean you have an object X of type (SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (62)) and (check-type X string) signals an error? 16:35:42 z0d: gray streams are "use extensible streams", just clos classes. also see simple-streams. 16:36:08 luis, I'm not quite sure exactly what's going on, but I know if I process it with FORMAT first, the text is output. And the only things that are apparent to me is the calls to check-type. Unless there's something in msg-int that is incorrect. 16:37:33 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:38:17 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:39:52 tic_: (let ((x (make-array 62 :element-type 'character))) (check-type x string) (type-of x)) 16:40:28 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:40:39 works as expected for me on both SBCL and ECL 16:40:56 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:22 tic_: what makes you think it's a simple-string? 16:42:29 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:53 tic_: no debugger or backtrace available? 16:43:14 luis, alas, no. 16:44:02 tic_: why not? 16:44:17 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 16:44:23 luis, because it looks like that might not have been the problem. 16:44:58 This part looks suspicous: memcpy(buf, string->base_string.self + start_pos, length), from the integration code. In the ECL headers, there's a "string" member defined in addition to base_string, when ECL_UNICODE is turned on. 16:46:03 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:46:04 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-153-129.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:30 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:58 mjf [n=mjf@r9fk18.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 16:48:05 tic_: sounds like you really need a debugger. :) 16:48:10 hm. Does running recentish sbcl under gdb work for anyone? 16:48:22 for me, I can type an open ( and then I get zillions of nested errors 16:49:50 x86/linux, having done the handle SIGUSR1 nostop noprint pass (and same for SIGSEGV) 16:50:05 luis, yup. :/ and some ECL expertise. Don't know in what situations the huge union cl_object will be a base_string or a string. 16:52:56 [Koba] [n=chatzill@213.78.181.241] has joined #lisp 16:53:52 <[Koba]> hello all 16:54:54 <[Koba]> wondering if anyone else is having problems pulling clbuild off darcs? 16:55:12 "" is of a different type than (concatenate 'string "" (string #\A)) -- SIMPLE-ARRAY BASE-CHAR vs. SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER. Intwesting. 16:56:05 Krystof: I get a seemingly endless stream of SIGTRAPS 16:56:23 ok, that is different from my symptom 16:56:25 <[Koba]> keeps giving non-existent file errors...at different places each time. Any suggestions? Server problems maybe? 16:56:46 Oh well. Good enough. *commits* 16:57:39 luis: neither symptom is terribly good 16:57:47 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-153-198.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 16:58:02 Is it time for a better debugger? 16:58:21 <[Koba]> anyway, if some one is kind enough to help me out, here is what I'm trying: darcs get http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/clbuild 16:58:51 Krystof: it prints the banner but doesn't get to the * repl actually, so it seems to fail sooner than yours. 16:59:34 did nyef sabotage gdb (or sbcl) to create a market? 17:00:04 -!- decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.61.164] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:00:07 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:50 [Koba]: works for me 17:01:00 [Koba]: same here 17:01:29 [Koba]: what is your darcs version? 17:01:31 <[Koba]> hmm....thanks. I suspect it is this slow connection or something 17:01:47 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:01:49 hefner: gdb hardly needs sabotaging. It's horrible enough as it is. 17:01:52 <[Koba]> darcs 2.1.0 17:02:13 I guess it is your terrible interwebs then 17:02:21 benny [n=benny@i577A1C95.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:46 <[Koba]> I could try to ssh into a uni machine...call darcs there and sftp /scp it across... 17:02:56 <[Koba]> I'll do that, for the hell of it :-) 17:03:06 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:29 *luis* gives drop.io a try 17:03:29 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:04:15 <[Koba]> quick question, what profilers do you guys use? 17:04:16 [Koba]: http://drop.io/pafbda2/asset/clbuild-tar 17:04:46 -!- ignas [n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 17:04:55 <[Koba]> thanks..I'll grab that then. 17:04:56 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-153-129.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:05:23 [Koba]: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Statistical-Profiler.html 17:05:50 all of my code is perfectly optimized so I don't use one 17:05:52 <[Koba]> ok thanks. Slime profiling any good? 17:05:55 <[Koba]> lol 17:06:33 [Koba]: I would expect SLIME to use that under the hood, but I don't I've ever used it through SLIME. 17:06:49 *don't think 17:06:52 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:07:29 <[Koba]> darcs is working on uni computer so it must be my connection 17:08:02 <[Koba]> and I'll investigate those profilers now 17:08:04 <[Koba]> thanks all! 17:08:06 <[Koba]> bye! 17:08:52 cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:13 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d824d1.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:09:25 -!- [Koba] [n=chatzill@213.78.181.241] has left #lisp 17:09:57 felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:33 I believe SLIME uses sb-prof, not sb-sprof, unless someone integrated jsnell's statistical profiling code. 17:10:49 I mean: ...unless someone integrated jsnell's statistical profiling front end into SLIME. 17:12:36 decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.63.188] has joined #lisp 17:16:24 pipping [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has joined #lisp 17:16:57 yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:18:23 OK, I fixed the simple case of output, but broke the other. Excellent.... 17:18:38 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:18:59 Deep [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:03 *tic_* is beginning to suspect Unicode. 17:19:18 ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has joined #lisp 17:19:18 it's an easy target. 17:19:24 Krystof: seems to work sbcl 1.0.24.18 FWIW 17:20:27 *work with 17:20:47 I was using 1.0.22.18 before 17:21:37 -!- tomsw [n=user@mail2.siscog.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:22:07 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.14.80] has joined #lisp 17:23:13 ok, I am on an oldish version too 17:23:17 maybe I need to upgrade 17:25:57 *tic_* is happy again 17:27:38 luis pasted "gdb+sbcl working better but not particularly well" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73015 17:28:29 gdb is lame at passing SIGTRAP information through 17:28:35 if you never cause an actual error, that's OK 17:29:45 meanwhile, here's another quick question: what are the units to the arguments to sb-kernel:system-area-ub8-copy? 17:31:19 -!- simplechat [n=simplech@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:31:50 what is the prize? 17:32:35 everything's in bytes, according to the comments. 17:33:02 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:33:04 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 so the use of a bit count in the mem-block deposit-gen method might explain why I'm getting segfaults everywhere in my alien bindings? 17:34:45 oh hi 17:34:45 -!- agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has quit ["rebooting!"] 17:34:50 anyone did tracing methods in slime? 17:34:55 Krystof: who/what is causing the SIGTRAP in that case? 17:34:59 TRACE only traces GF's 17:35:28 weirdo: in sbcl, if you like living dangerously, (trace gf :encapsulate nil :methods t) 17:35:47 -!- cheatcountry [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:48 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:54 luis: the arg count checker in #'/ causes a sigtrap; the sbcl runtime knows how to interpret sigtraps and call #'error 17:36:11 luis: unfortunately, gdb intercepts all sigtraps and tries to interpret them as gdb breakpoints 17:36:14 confusion arises 17:36:40 Krystof: I don't think so. The code seems to *truncate* to a byte count. It also has some weid obviously daed code. 17:36:51 agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 17:37:26 lexmags [n=leoleo@93.186.212.118] has joined #lisp 17:37:42 pkhuong: look at the :extract-gen and :deport-gen methods for mem-block 17:37:55 -!- dfox [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:38:01 one of them does a division of the offset, the other doesn't 17:38:10 it's the offset argument I'm querying, not the length 17:38:12 Krystof: I see, thanks. 17:38:13 oh, forgot the offset. 17:38:13 -!- lexmags [n=leoleo@93.186.212.118] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39:41 My life is too short to read and understand bit-bash.lisp, so I'm going to trust the comments and try inserting the analogous division 17:40:07 honestly, I try to _use_ sbcl and what do I find? I need to hack sbcl :-/ 17:40:13 I should have used cffi 17:40:23 antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has joined #lisp 17:41:32 One of these days someone will implement cffi-alien-compat. 17:49:20 -!- felideon [n=user@adsl-074-186-235-232.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:51:26 *luis* successfully avoids hacking on that and returns to what he should be doing. 17:53:02 Krystof: yes ;) 17:53:27 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:53:36 keeping the code in 80 columns proves itself to be more challenging than writing actual code 17:54:07 but it's not that bad a practice, with it i can have 6 buffers open 17:54:08 isn't 100 the new 80? 17:54:18 nah, i've got 80 cols in 1680x1050 17:54:25 for 3 frames with no borders 17:57:36 segv__: how insensitive of you, I only get 98 columns on my XO-1! 17:58:49 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:58:57 yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:01:14 -!- pipping [n=user@unaffiliated/pipping] has left #lisp 18:01:35 the best way to get things done is to avoid hacking. really. 18:01:55 litmus test: "am I enjoying this? yeah? I probably shouldn't be doing it then" 18:03:32 :o 18:03:38 tisshy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has joined #lisp 18:03:49 so options in defclass are always keywords, right? 18:03:57 hello everyone, happy new year 18:04:10 weirdo: options, yes, option arguments, no. 18:04:19 then i could make &rest slots-or-options 18:04:59 is there an equality test or something that checks if a list is somewhat similar. like: (1 x 5 6) = (1 y 5 6) ? 18:05:28 tisshy, levenshtein distance :) 18:05:28 tisshy: only you can define what `somewhat similar' means. 18:05:37 though the default version only works on strings 18:05:41 but that's not much of a problem 18:05:52 might also want to use levenshtein-damerau 18:06:05 a pattern matcher more or less 18:06:08 which counts transpositions as one change 18:06:18 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 18:06:23 weirdo: hm ill have a look into it 18:06:24 levenshtein-damerau is O(n m) 18:06:34 actually, both algorithms are 18:06:49 well computation time is not an issue 18:07:10 minion: logs? 18:07:11 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 18:07:54 weirdo pasted "levenshtein-damerau on vectors for tisshy" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73018 18:08:13 oh, there's char=, but you could change it 18:09:24 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:09:25 schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:11:19 thanks ill have a look 18:12:14 coerce lists to vectors. you could make them dynamic-extent 18:14:16 but i think it might be a bit too complex to do, i think ill generalize my ruleset 18:14:41 -!- schoppen1auer is now known as schoppenhauer 18:15:29 yay, it works 18:16:39 weirdo pasted "levenshtein-damerau on vectors for tisshy" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73019 18:16:45 -!- antares_ [n=antares_@77.108.193.227] has quit [] 18:18:18 anger-hacking: when you waste a perfectly good day researching an obscure language/os future and writing a useless sample just to prove some whiner wrong on his own blog 18:19:37 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 18:20:00 sounds like a comic from xkcd 18:20:27 -!- yhara [n=yhara@ZC046088.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:20:34 so there's a bug in xml-rpc so that & gets changed to & 18:20:40 lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:29 stassats: "someone is being wrong on the internet" ;-) 18:22:42 fusss: yeah, that one 18:22:48 wow! so now there's compound completion for M-x! 18:22:49 persi [n=user@241.sub-70-215-54.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:21 anyone using slime with LW here? 18:24:11 it's *almost* a useable emacs, the IDE, except for cut and paste and cursor movement, and dired, and etags and other useful things :-S 18:25:22 etags? are you using it with lisp? 18:25:55 C, but i'm jumping between the two for ffi 18:26:05 help 18:26:13 -!- ferada [n=ferada@g224145158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["leaving"] 18:26:57 so with a bunch of macros, clos doesn't suck so bad 18:27:38 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:28:01 -!- m4dnificT [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:28:38 clos doesn't suck. 18:29:37 weirdo: What parts are you fixin' with your macros? 18:30:10 schme_, i changed defclass to (defcomponent name supers &body slots-or-options) 18:30:18 beach` [n=user@58.186.166.9] has joined #lisp 18:30:40 You renamed defclass to defcomponent? 18:30:42 reader and initarg are supplied by default unless there's (foo :reader nil) etc 18:30:52 it's something like defclass* 18:31:02 sounds revolutionary 18:31:15 heh 18:31:23 slots can't be named to keywords and options have to be named to keywords 18:31:23 weirdo: You might like redshank for emacs if you're on the gnu emacs. 18:31:31 sounds more interesting than "defopalize" :-P 18:31:44 so what's the big deal with the distinction in defclass? 18:32:06 distinction of what? 18:32:34 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 18:33:12 weirdo: Is the writer always defined? 18:33:31 schme_, for my code there's no need for a writer 18:33:44 i could make a macro called define-class-definer 18:33:45 :-) 18:33:46 Oh ok. 18:34:02 which would decide which options to supply and how 18:34:22 wow. 18:34:31 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E775.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:21 -!- agemo [n=jovdmeer@igwe16.vub.ac.be] has left #lisp 18:35:49 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-187.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 18:37:14 weirdo: when you have time see this thread for some CLOS bravado by Pascal Costanza. Really cool. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/ba9c7cd96ae14cae 18:40:06 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.166.31] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:40:17 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-16-250.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:22 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:34 oh this 18:42:35 it's poor 18:42:44 functions are compiled at runtime for every instantiation 18:42:51 see the code to (COMPILE NIL ...) 18:43:29 they should be compiled at runtime and a code walker used to determine free variables, if any 18:43:34 -!- Deep [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 18:43:38 ugh, should be compiled at compile time 18:44:01 Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:12 weirdo: you are mistaken. 18:45:02 (about when things are compiled, not about the lack of a code walker) 18:45:04 the make-instance 'funcallable-value-object thing happens at runtime 18:45:25 and that's where COMPILE happens 18:45:28 your definition of run time and mine differ. 18:45:38 it happens at :load-time 18:46:18 except that these lambdas are compiled every time they occur in the source, instead of once 18:46:34 It's starting to feel like I'm running out of wall to bash my head on :D 18:46:42 what do you mean 'every time they occur in source'? 18:46:49 it's like a defun, no more no less 18:47:11 kzar: hunchentoot still? 18:47:13 (list #1=(lambda ()) #1#) will compile it twice? Ok by me. 18:47:13 (loop for i below 100 collect (let ((i i)) (vlambda i))) 18:47:47 fusss: Well yea kind of but I mean with Lisp it feels like I'm starting to get somewhere 18:47:54 it should compile once, preferably at compile-time. load-time-value is acceptable, but not 100 times, for christ's sake 18:48:01 -!- A_Tuin [n=zealot@183.Red-83-61-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 18:48:09 kzar: Congrats :) 18:48:34 kzar: don't fight it :-) 18:48:44 heh 18:48:59 weirdo: whatever. you're free to move out the call to compile. 18:49:07 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-223.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49:53 if you want serializable closures your going to have pay some cost. 18:49:59 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:49:59 it can be properly implemented with cl-walker, though 18:50:14 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-209.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 18:50:19 i'm aware of that, in fact i've implemented that in the past. 18:50:22 have fun doing it. 18:50:28 it could collect free variables and pass them as a vector 18:50:39 no, i don't need the functionality, pretty much rather would use sb-heapdump 18:50:40 enjoy eating that can of works. 18:50:40 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:50:42 worms 18:50:51 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:50:55 what the hell is your problem? 18:51:59 disregard that, i overreacted 18:52:07 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:52:19 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@dsl092-160-052.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:48 (declare (:explain :variables)) fucking aye! 18:53:39 dankna [n=d@ool-43516bc9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:44 vy [n=user@88.224.68.241] has joined #lisp 18:54:29 well at least it's not trivial, having to resolve cyclic free variables between functions 18:54:51 cyclic free variables? 18:54:55 wonder if cl-walker fixed its lack of support for &aux variables 18:55:38 pkhuong, lambda has a free variables f which is a function which in turn depends on another lambda g which depends on f 18:55:41 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@ool-45717ef5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:26 but that depends on whether free variables need to be serialized as well 18:56:45 that can only happen via labels. You can treat labels and flet specially; it's both simpler and more efficient. 18:57:28 nah, (let (f g) (setq f (lambda ... g ...) g (lambda .. f ...)) (values f g)) 18:57:57 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:58:20 weirdo: *print-circle*. 18:58:24 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 18:59:21 does *print-circle* handle user-defined printer methods? 18:59:48 if you do it right. 19:01:57 ferada [n=ferada@g224145158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:55 need to make a generalization of compiler-macroing keyword and optional parameters 19:08:00 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cad43e-027.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:08:26 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:46 jestocost [n=cmell@cad439-163.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:09:19 Do WRITE-STRING and FORMAT differ in any meaningful way when just writing a raw string to a stream? I get seemingly different results. 19:10:29 why not (defmacro vlambda (&whole whole ...) `(let ((fin (make-instance 'funcallable-instance :whole ',whole)) (fun ,whole)) (set-funcallable-instance-function fin fun) fun))? 19:10:30 -!- lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 19:10:50 Supposing I want to export a variable after I have declared the package how would I do that? I thought maybe (export *variable-name*) but that doesn't seem to work 19:11:44 you have to quote it 19:12:05 and you don't export variables, you export symbols 19:12:11 hefner: Ah gotya thanks 19:17:44 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:18:03 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:07 tic_: well, if you use ~S they certainly differ. what format string are you using and what's the difference? 19:18:59 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:19:46 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-200-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:42 lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:27 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:23:09 Hi guys. hander-case and restart-case and backtracing question. How would one get the (sb-debug:backtrace) to report the backtrace of and (error) from within a handler-case or restart-case. Seems like the handler-case and restart-case stack already unwound? 19:24:05 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:24:24 Yes, persi. 19:24:26 Yeah, already unwound. 19:24:32 Use HANDLER-BIND and RESTART-BIND if you don't want the stack to be unwound. 19:24:33 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:39 Use the -bind instead of -case... What Riastradh said. 19:24:49 fatelang [n=user@24-217-195-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:23 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.234.16] has quit [] 19:27:40 Cool the macro's are working now, instead of pushing dispatchers to the global *dispatch-table* I push them to (vhost-dispatchers domain.name.com) and to start with I do something like (sort-vhost domain.name.com *myserver '("www.domain.name.com" "domain.name.com") ... initial dispatchers) 19:28:09 Riastradh, nyef: thanks! I had no idea -case and -bind were any different. Wow. 19:28:42 kpreid, (format stream "6,'0x" length) vs (let ((m (format nil ...))) (write-string m stream)) 19:29:26 persi: For future reference, the first hint that they might be different is that they both exist. ^_- 19:29:53 tic_: and what difference do you see? 19:31:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-28-187.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:31:52 -!- yahooooo [n=yahooooo@c-76-104-183-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:32:33 kpreid, (sorry for being so disconnected, trying to get things working while speaking) I get Swank trying to PARSE-INT on the string "(:emac", almost as if the first part was never sent. 19:33:06 So it could also be related to the behaviour of FORMAT re. FD-STREAM. 19:33:12 drewc still around? 19:34:11 tic_: I wonder if you're seeing a buffering difference 19:35:38 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B1695F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:35:54 -!- fatelang [n=user@24-217-195-22.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:59 tic_: Are you using finish-output on the stream? 19:36:01 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 19:36:14 kpreid, I'll going to try that. Sounds strange, though, as I first do a (format stream ...), then a (write-string ...) followed by (finish-output). It shouldn't re-order the sequence should it? 19:36:26 s/going to// 19:36:40 spiderbyte [n=dcl@h81.251.31.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:18 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb36f0.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:39 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 19:38:37 *tic_* tries to dig out some code. 19:38:47 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:39 If I would say that I couldn't understand the actual difference between "composition filters" and "filtered dispatch", do I reveal my ignorance that much? 19:40:15 jbjohns: T 19:40:36 segv__: there? 19:40:40 :) I was just looking at some of the backlog about ucw 19:41:27 tic pasted "format vs write-string oddities." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73022 19:41:30 tcr, ^^^ 19:41:42 you said you've been talking with Avi. Is he up on the latest developments with Seaside? 19:42:15 Lukas and Philipe have gotten rid of most of the cases of continuations. I think the only thing left is #call:/#answer: now 19:42:49 Of course they did it for speed and to conserve memory, which at least the speed might be less of an issue with the lisp code 19:44:40 jbjohns: right .. speed in not really an issue, as we only used continuations for call/answer anyway 19:44:56 it's a minor issue, as we interpret them .. but mainly it's for memory use. 19:45:19 I have not talked with avi in a year or so... 19:45:22 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:45:24 well, there is only so much speed you can squeeze out of a web app anyway, given that it all goes through the tcp stack 19:45:29 fr33fall [n=fr33fall@91-204-dsl.kielnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:38 but they were not using continuations pervasively in DabbleDB 19:45:43 (that is, the round trip) 19:45:56 jbjohns: yeah, writing to the socket is always the bottleneck anyway :) 19:46:01 redshank is quite good 19:46:03 hell .. people do this in ruby 19:46:10 exactly 19:46:12 some functions don't work, though 19:46:28 blame goes on emacs for the lack of packages or other form of information hiding 19:47:17 drewc: would there be any advantage in having UCW use cl-cont instead of the arnesi stuff? 19:47:30 (pure curiosity) 19:47:33 luis: no no no .. major disadvantage 19:47:42 arnesi used to be just like cl-cont 19:47:48 Interesting. Why is that? 19:47:51 and UCW a lot like weblocks as a matter of fact. 19:47:51 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:47:53 ok, have you looked much into the very latest Seaside code (2.9 or so)? They have made some major improvements. Lukas and Philipe have a company here that does websites, so they have a few years real world experience at this point 19:47:56 ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 19:48:00 tic_: I should point out that if changing the buffering *does* make a difference then the receiving side is in fact broken 19:48:13 now this is new "error in timer" when starting slime 19:48:17 luis: have you ever seen an error deep in cps transformed code? 19:48:25 tic_: I'm not saying adjusting the buffering behavior is the right thing, just that it might be the cause of the *difference* 19:48:26 looked at the debugger and gone WTF! 19:48:31 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:48:34 hi. I'm unable to find TRULY-THE in the CLHS, however, I've seen it in SBCL and I'm seeing it in ABCL now too. 19:48:42 is it a dialect? 19:48:46 yes 19:48:55 kpreid: to me? 19:48:59 yes 19:49:03 ok. 19:49:04 jbjohns: well .. i have been building applications based on UCW for some 5 years now ... so experience is not lacking here either :) 19:49:05 thanks. 19:49:11 it means "even though we have a policy of checking declarations, here we really mean don't check." 19:49:15 kpreid, I really hope the receiving end, i.e. SBCL, is not broken! 19:49:16 at least in sbcl. 19:49:27 drewc: heh, I see. 19:49:29 jbjohns: and i do that for a living :) 19:49:33 tic_: hm? you said swank, so it would be swank 19:49:41 -!- wasabi_________3 [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 19:49:42 luis: weblocks + cl-cont reminds me of 5 year old UCW 19:49:51 (I assume you're writing something that speaks the slime end of the protocol?) 19:49:56 a great idea, but difficult to work with. 19:49:58 kpreid, yup. 19:50:09 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:18 kpreid: thanks. that helps. (I think it's the same with ABCL. 19:50:20 ) 19:50:27 kpreid, but either way, buffering or not, shouldn't the data be written sequentially? 19:50:42 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:50:48 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:50:50 tic_: if your problem is in fact out of order, yes 19:50:57 -!- fr33fall [n=fr33fall@91-204-dsl.kielnet.net] has quit [] 19:50:57 luis: also, we wanted to scale .. which likely means serializing continuations. So marco built the arnesi interpreter. 19:51:01 drewc: what country? :) 19:51:09 though -- and this is probably a tangent -- there is a way buffering can affect ordering 19:51:40 just in general: if you're writing to two different streams going to the same place -- say, stdout and stderr, then when each is flushed affects the ordering 19:51:40 jbjohns: I'm global! :). Seriously, i live in vancouver, bc, canada... but my clients are global , usually through tech.coop 19:52:08 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 19:52:12 kpreid, yeah, but now that I write to the same stream.. Well, I'm going to check it out. 19:52:35 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:53:04 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:12 tic_: Btw. Madhu wrote a swank-client in Common Lisp once. 19:53:39 "letify" is just sweet 19:53:42 fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:43 Climacs probably has some relevant code as well, I'd guess. 19:53:58 tcr, Hm. That could prove useful. I think I have most of the protocol already worked out by the SlimVim guys, though. But I'll remember that, thanks. 19:54:12 luis: Climacs doesn't use the swank server, just the package directly. 19:55:08 Ah, ok, nevermind then. 19:55:38 drewc: is the continuation interpreter a separate package? 19:56:13 jbjohns: it's available as part of arnesi 19:56:18 minion: arnesi? 19:56:19 i.e. if someone wanted that part, but maybe not the whole thing? 19:56:19 arnesi: arnesi is a collection of small Common Lisp utilities written by Marco Baringer. http://www.cliki.net/arnesi 19:56:28 aha 19:56:52 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-176.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:58:50 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 19:59:01 jbjohns: it's essentially an interpreter for a dialect of common lisp that include call/cc 19:59:07 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:59:24 but since we are only using it in certain situations, it's really closer to shift/reset 20:00:21 -!- cheatcountry1 [n=cheatcou@cpe-72-177-217-220.satx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:00:39 (this is, imo, better than using full continuations) 20:01:38 drewc: do you have an example of the kind of error situation you mentioned? 20:01:57 drewc: could you fix the locale setup on c-l.net? 20:02:12 luis: i can try and make one .. let me get cl-cont installed. 20:02:19 ehu: what's wrong with it? 20:02:39 the only supported locale is en_CA.UTF-8 20:02:50 the settings for my account (from before migration) 20:02:55 are en_US.UTF8 20:02:58 maybe for others too. 20:03:03 it's easy to fix. 20:03:12 dpkg-reconfigure locale 20:03:13 -!- lispelot is now known as lispelot|away 20:03:15 (or locales) 20:03:20 and select "all locales" 20:03:31 then, you need to generate locale-gen 20:03:37 (may take a few minutes) 20:03:42 and fixed. 20:03:50 luis: I'm sure you can figure out how a backtrace would be messed up by CPS conversion. 20:04:21 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 20:04:36 Has anyone ever implemented Flavors on a non-LispM? 20:04:39 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:04:48 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-26-176.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:05:07 fooquux: There's some flavors related code on cmu's ai archive. 20:05:35 tcr: thanks, haven't looked there for a long time 20:06:18 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-49-22.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:07:11 dan_lov [n=dan_lov@89.123.17.7] has joined #lisp 20:07:38 vasa [n=vasa@mm-132-85-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 20:07:39 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483E775.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:07:43 luis: it's hard to come up with a one-off example ... 20:07:49 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:08 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:08:12 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:29 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:08:59 -!- dan_lov [n=dan_lov@89.123.17.7] has left #lisp 20:09:21 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-132-85-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:26 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host181-178-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 20:09:38 vasa [n=vasa@mm-132-85-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 20:10:44 -!- lispelot|away is now known as lispelot 20:10:45 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:16 what does cl-cont do with a function invocation (foo 1 2)? 20:11:17 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:19 mega1 [n=mega@53d824d1.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:11:42 cl-cont shadows DEFUN? 20:12:01 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 -!- rlpowell_ is now known as rlpowell 20:13:44 afair there's defun/cc 20:13:47 as well as lambda/cc 20:15:30 tcr: i'd assume that the function is simple called.. there is no reliable way to actually capture anything within foo 1 2 unless FOO has a with-call/cc somewhere 20:15:57 tcr: cl-cont is also shift/reset rather than a true call/cc 20:16:22 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 20:16:47 pkhuong: it's not obvious to me, I'm afraid. :) 20:16:50 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:18:33 zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 luis: there isn't any! The ``stack frames'' [closures in the continuation] are usually unreadable due to the introduction of tons of temporary variables and the renaming of variables with gensymmed symbols. 20:18:47 -!- zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:47 luis, the stack either will appear to be a complete history of the computation, or will be empty. 20:19:00 it can be made into a "true" continuation with catch/throw 20:19:30 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:19:55 zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 20:19:56 does scheme have this issue as well? 20:20:16 Scheme code written in CPS has this issue (with the `empty' option). 20:20:32 luis: the persone who wrote the debugger was hopefully aware of the way continuations are implemented on the debugged system. 20:21:14 Of course, it is less of an issue if (1) the debugger contains an object inspector capable of inspecting closure environments, and (2) the CPS is minimal, and temporary names are not given to every intermediate quantity in the program. 20:22:30 *luis* makes a note to look into cl-cont, arnesi/cc and common cold. 20:22:44 luis: ok, got an example. 20:23:27 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 20:23:27 luis: the point of common cold is just a really bad hack to serialize closures. 20:23:32 lisppaste: url? 20:23:34 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 20:23:46 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:23:49 well .. bah .. play around yourself and you'll see 20:24:03 Can't the introduced temporary names be filtered away? Wouldn't otherwise the same argument be valid to SSA based optimization? 20:24:06 -!- zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:24:08 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:23 zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 20:24:33 tcr, be careful to distinguish a compiler's intermediate representation from a style of user-written (or macro-written) code. 20:24:41 tcr: the problem isn't the representation itself, it's that the environment deals with the transformed output. 20:24:44 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:25:31 Riastradh: I thought we went from the CL based macro kludges to Scheme systems which are designed to take continuations in account. 20:26:31 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:26:39 tcr, what I spoke of was Scheme programs written in a CPS. I didn't mention, and I don't think anyone else mentioned, intermediate representations of compilers. 20:26:51 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:28:13 drewc pasted "some erroring call/cc stuff for backtrace purposes." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73026 20:28:15 Saying that I'm not convinced that Lisp macros are the way to go. Making a compiler itself user-extensible (a la SBCL's DEFTRANSFORM) seems more worthwhile. 20:28:31 tcr: lisp macros are _not_ the way to go 20:28:44 (that is, simply transforming to CPS) 20:29:06 that's why we have an interpreter in arnesi! 20:29:09 I spoke generally, not about CPS 20:29:09 tcr: deftransforms shouldn't change control flow. 20:29:20 oh .. in general. 20:29:42 In general, it's a hard problem. 20:29:54 -!- decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.63.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:56 quite. 20:30:38 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:30:40 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:56 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-046-099.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:15 luis: looking at the bactrace the pasted code produces in both arnesi and cl-cont should be enough to see why a advocate the former 20:31:33 and that is not very complex code.. it doesn't even use call/cc 20:31:42 drewc: Could you paste the backtraces? I don't have cl-cont or arnesi installed, but I'd be interested in seeing the mess 20:31:49 indeed 20:31:53 -!- lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:33:03 drewc annotated #73026 with "cl-cont bactrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73026#1 20:34:14 drewc annotated #73026 with "arnesi backtrace" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73026#2 20:34:16 drewc: lol 20:34:26 tcr: looking at a macroexpansion is more interesting 20:35:58 Of course, what'd really be neat is the ability to override the usual frame-walking behavior while in code under such transformation regimes to produce something more... legible. 20:36:01 S11001001: An IR can also have a readable textual representation. 20:36:17 kpreid, it doesn't *seem* to be a problem with buffering, did a (finish-output stream) after the first (format stream ...) now 20:36:29 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:36:46 tcr: I mean of cl-cont CPS-transformed code 20:37:17 I spent about an hour tracking down a Clozure bug in typep, most of it manually reducing cl-cont output (where I observed it) 20:37:35 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:37:35 That doesn't help you much when you're thrown into the debugger randomly. 20:37:42 anyone have any experience with the context oriented programming lisp extension? 20:37:46 ah, elephant finally getting ready for a release! 20:37:46 no 20:38:09 with a query planner, now;should be interesting 20:38:09 I meant interesting in the first sense, not as an implication 20:38:29 drewc annotated #73026 with "macroexpand - arnesi" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73026#3 20:39:14 drewc annotated #73026 with "macroexpand - cl-cont" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/73026#4 20:39:18 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279439877.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 20:39:22 heh 20:39:25 those should be good for some lulz 20:39:43 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-11365: SIGTERM received; exit"] 20:39:56 S11001001: that's why i will never again use a cps transformer in code i have to debug 20:40:08 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:40:16 Easy! Don't write that needs to be debugged. 20:40:19 I've been thinking about how to reduce the amount of transformation it does 20:40:21 It's so totally your fault! 20:40:27 S11001001: all that work could have been saved by using existing tested and working solutions instead of writing yet another poor cps transformer 20:40:31 it's not my main concern atm though 20:40:32 :) 20:40:36 sure 20:40:43 IIRC, the story was that 20:40:55 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:57 slava wrote cl-cont as a way to learn about continuations 20:41:02 he didn't understand call/cc 20:41:03 the plan was to use arnesi in weblocks 20:41:03 right 20:41:17 but when it was done, he decided to go the dogfood route 20:41:24 competition in the web framework race heating up? :) 20:41:24 the wrong decisions 20:41:41 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:46 the decision to write weblocks was wrong IMO as well :) 20:41:52 :P 20:41:59 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:42:08 it's 1/2 of UCW 20:42:08 why can't you plug in a different library? 20:42:11 you're just jealous because its name is way cooler :) 20:42:22 in 5 years it might be the other half too 20:42:28 drewc: Can you explain? I've been far more impressed by what I've seen of weblocks than UCW. 20:42:33 S11001001: if it was anywhere near cooler i'd be using it 20:42:35 -!- wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:44 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:33 based on the name? 20:43:35 rlpowell: can you explain what impressed you? 20:43:46 wasabi__ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:43:54 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.14.80] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:43:54 drewc: by the way, do you have any thoughts on using ucw on multiple load-balanced app servers for one app? 20:44:02 rsynnott: indeed .. i do so 20:44:07 you need 'sticky sessions' 20:44:09 a cursory look indicates that it's rather dependent on its own session system 20:44:17 cddr [i=andy@user-5440d0d0.wfd79a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:44:23 ah, so any given user is tied to a given app server? 20:44:32 fair enough 20:44:33 yeah .. that's the easy way 20:44:34 -!- zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:44:40 tcr: no reason, just no one is bothered to implement it 20:44:48 *rsynnott* currently uses a centralised session storage thingy with multiple app servers 20:44:54 zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 20:44:55 drewc: AFAICT, they both have about the same continuations abilities; the difference I've seen is that weblocks has a lot more ... not sure how to explain it. A lot more ways to just sort of magically produce pages, like if I want to let the user edit a bunch of objects I just sort of point at them and say "go"; I don't have to do anything else. 20:44:58 which presents an eventual scalability problem of course 20:45:06 rlpowell: ohh! magic! 20:45:11 xinming_ [n=hyy@125.109.252.56] has joined #lisp 20:45:22 rlpowell: there are higher level frameworks built on UCW that do that. 20:45:24 don333 [n=filip@96-54.echostar.pl] has joined #lisp 20:45:33 But the only UCW I've seen is demo videos, hence the question. 20:45:38 UCW is just an engine, and i've made a serious effort to remove all magic 20:46:14 I like my current setup because I can shut down individual app server processes one at a time to update without anyone noticing 20:46:16 rlpowell: i could implement most of that magic on ucw in an afternoon. i could probably just port it directly. 20:46:31 *schaueho* wonders whose working on the lisp equivalent of python wsgi. 20:46:33 rsynnott: indeed, that's a minor issue. 20:46:34 though in practice the downtime involved wouldn't be significant anyway 20:47:10 drewc: OK, fair enough. But this still leaves me wondering why you think it's better than weblocks. I am *not* trying to be confrontational; I'm genuinely curious. 20:47:22 rsynnott: is that storage session thingie available somewhere? 20:47:52 nah, it's a very simple part of a larger server which handles authentication and a cache control and a few other bits and pieces 20:47:54 rlpowell: because weblocks is immature, unproven and is the same thing as ucw, only implemented and used by new lispers. 20:48:01 erlang with a thrift interface 20:48:12 qbg [n=quickbas@74.33.102.125] has joined #lisp 20:48:21 is it possible to obtain the class-of t? 20:48:22 rlpowell: and cl-cont is a horrible way to develop 20:48:34 cddr: what do you think? 20:49:07 drewc: Can you expand on that last comment? 20:49:41 I was wondering if interfacing cl-couchdb with ucw might lead to something resembling zope ... without the hassle, of course. 20:49:44 12:45 < drewc> rlpowell: there are higher level frameworks built on UCW that do that. -- where would I find such things? 20:49:44 rlpowell: have you not been following this conversation? 20:49:45 cddr: (class-of t) => # 20:50:15 which isn't really what I want. I want the superclass of all classes 20:50:16 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-76-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:28 I didn't realize it went back very far; reading. 20:50:30 rlpowell: Lisp on Lines is one, TAL core-server is another, i think there is something like that included in paragent. ucw-forms, ucw-presentations, ucw+ .... 20:50:48 cddr: FIND-CLASS 20:51:11 cddr: (find-class t) => # 20:51:11 schaueho: no .. because zope is horrid and UCW is not. 20:51:21 schaueho: :P 20:51:26 thanks drewc 20:51:33 and fooquux 20:52:12 *rlpowell* is, unfortunately, a fairly new lisper, and hence can't follow much of the backscroll. 20:52:15 rlpowell: http://paste.lisp.org/display/73026 says it all 20:52:17 *fooquux* needs a keyboard mapping for  20:52:33 clhs open 20:52:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_open.htm 20:53:41 drewc: I agree on zope :) 20:53:59 schaueho: elephantmight in ways suit better than couchdb 20:54:06 Unfortunately, http://paste.lisp.org/display/73026 is largely incomprehensible to me. It'd take me a few hours, minimum, to follow it. I'll take a look later. THanks. 20:54:20 drewc: I agree. But zope provides a lot of facilities ucw still lacks, especially zope3. There's a lot of abstractions. 20:54:30 schaueho: like what? 20:54:43 and tell me why it sould be part of UCW and not a higher-level framework 20:55:41 before anybody else tries to tell me what's missing from UCW, please read the first bits of this: 20:55:43 http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw/repos/ucw-core/manual/getting-started.txt 20:56:17 if anything, UCW is closer to wsgi than django... in lesser language terms 20:56:25 funny, if I want to link (:link :rel "script" :href "scripts/site.js") do I need to (create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler "/scripts/" ..)? 20:56:36 -!- qbg [n=quickbas@74.33.102.125] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 20:56:50 fe[nl]ix: around? 20:57:05 fusss: Why is that funny? 20:57:29 fusss: do you magically expect your application to serve all files on your HDD? 20:57:52 hey 20:57:54 wait .. i might not know what i'm taking about :) 20:58:06 what's the equivalent of TRACE for gf's? 20:58:09 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.253.251] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:58:14 drewc: I've used an older version of ucw a fair bit, unfortunately not ucw-core. I'm going to look at it closely, I'll promise. 20:58:19 fusss: Do you have another webserver in front of Hunchentoot? 20:58:23 drewc: that's what apache does, at least if you specify DocumentRoot. 20:58:26 weirdo: I'd have though it was TRACE.j 20:58:30 ahaas: mod_proxy 20:58:36 nyef, it doesn't print the individual methods 20:58:37 weirdo: i think you are looking for TRACE 20:58:41 ahaas: but not on my dev box; win32 lw 20:58:45 fusss: best have apache serve static files, then 20:58:48 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-251-219.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:58:56 drewc: you summoned me ? 20:58:57 fusss: yeah, what rsynnott said 20:59:00 ah 20:59:09 _zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 20:59:13 fe[nl]ix: indeed .. do you have 5 mins to talk about iolib in #tech.coop 20:59:17 sure 20:59:20 fusss: if you're usinghunchentoot somewhere in there, it does have a static file serving thing 20:59:24 see docs 20:59:45 -!- _zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has left #lisp 20:59:52 -!- the-ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B5D08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:00:02 Zope3 tries quite hard to draw a distinction between database objects and views, and I happen to think that this makes a lot of sense. 21:00:25 rsynnott: just a few javascript files referenced by generated html? on my dev box? the static file serving thing is create-static-file-dispatcher-and-handler :-) will just stop being a cry baby and public /css/ and /script/ :-D 21:00:36 fusss: Add a dir, like "static" where all your static files are rooted from, and you'll be glad you did. 21:00:42 Zope also brings along a lot of things that you otherwise have to assemble from scratch. 21:01:06 ultimately, you'll want apache or whatever serving them on deployment, presumably 21:01:07 ahaas: sounds like a plan. are you using hunchentoot on your site? 21:01:16 fusss: I meant, so that your webserver can serve them, rather than hunchentoo 21:01:27 r2q2` [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:27 I agree it's a beast and ugly, especially zope2, but I still would like to see a lisp web framework bringing along so many needed facilities. 21:01:30 fusss: Yeah, I use lighttpd + hunchentoot 21:02:12 -!- mulligan` [n=user@e178015131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:02:14 fusss: lighttpd sends everything to hunchentoot, except for anything in static/, like static/img/, static/css/, etc. 21:02:21 rvirding_ [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:33 sounds cool 21:02:52 fusss: I used Apache + mod_lisp, but I like lighttpd much better now 21:03:01 you don't want to give hunchentoot unnecessary extra work serving static files 21:03:32 -!- vy [n=user@88.224.68.241] has left #lisp 21:03:35 -!- tisshy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:03:51 alright, i repent! 21:04:47 -!- rvirding_ [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 21:06:32 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:23 drewc: thanks for the pointer to the ucw-core document. Looks like ucw has come quite a way since ucw-dev as of 2007 (which I'm still using around here). 21:07:31 schaueho: what facilities? 21:07:37 LoL provides a lot more on top of UCW 21:07:58 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:08:22 drewc: well, for instance you can exchange what kind of session handling you want. 21:08:28 but is still not documented sadly .. i wanted to do UCW first 21:08:57 schaueho: what kinds of session handling are there? 21:09:10 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@dsl092-160-052.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [] 21:09:40 schaueho: UCW needs a very specific idea of 'session' for the control flow operators to work.4 21:09:42 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:10:58 \o/ solved it! create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler doesn't by default directory listing for empty directories. you have to put something in there, and then request it for it to work. 21:11:19 There are different ways how you can identify which session a user request belongs to. 21:11:31 COMPUTE-APPLICABLE-METHODS is useful. 21:11:39 cookie based, session id and i think others, too. 21:12:03 schaueho: url-rewriting 21:12:16 hidden form input 21:12:47 _zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 21:12:55 -!- don333 [n=filip@96-54.echostar.pl] has quit ["leaving"] 21:14:29 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:14:58 -!- _zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:59 -!- zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:15:30 zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 21:16:57 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-251-219.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:58 It's just an example, though. And I wouldn't claim at all it belongs in a core web library. 21:17:28 hfoo [n=h@p5B17EF27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:51 hmm 21:17:54 i have a problem 21:18:38 syamajala: Use regular expressions! 21:19:00 i kinda have an idea of how to solve my problem, but implementing it is... 21:19:11 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c-98-200-245-184.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:21 macros and mop will probably help 21:19:34 No, syamajala. Regular expressions. Definitely. 21:19:43 schaueho: UCW can and does have that support 21:20:20 No, I think the MOP works just as well for the "now you have two problems" thing. 21:20:34 Point. 21:20:40 i disagree! 21:20:49 actually i don't need mop 21:20:54 i use the mop before i reach for a macro around defclass.... 21:20:55 drewc: You're probably closer to the mop than we are, then. :-P 21:20:56 just a macro 21:21:10 nyef: this is likely. 21:21:15 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:16 why bother with fancy urls? 21:21:34 I was just having a look at which part of SBCL is taking up so much ram to see how I could maybe reduce it. I commented out all my code except the lines to start the SWANK server, then typing room it says it's using 75meg, that normal? (seems quite a lot) 21:22:08 i finally have a decent lisp + javascript hacking setup. yay! :-D 21:22:08 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-241-87-35.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:14 kzar, it is 21:22:26 it contains the compiler, CL and some contribs 21:22:34 all of them with debugging info 21:22:46 would have got there sooner if i didn't mix html 4 with xhtml 21:22:46 fusss: what are you using for the javascript part? 21:22:53 you could build a core with no debugging info, but who cares? 21:22:55 ram is cheap 21:22:59 kzar: most of that is probably CLOS/MOP/Compiler metadata. 21:23:07 can get 2 GB for a few bucks 21:23:11 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.14.80] has joined #lisp 21:23:33 weirdo: It's just that this is on a VPS, otherwise I wouldn't care 21:23:51 kzar, run everything in one SBCL process 21:23:58 weirdo: I went for the cheapo option of 128meg of ram which seems to work alright but it's cutting it quite fine 21:24:00 threads are cheap 21:24:04 kzar: jquery. not messing with parenscript yet. javascript is nice enough on its own, and when externalized to isolated files, i can get by with cut-and-paste "programming" 21:24:33 i've been looking at parenscript 21:24:37 I was told that the OS doesn't always know how much RAM a Lisp process is using 21:24:38 you're dunning apache or what? use the worker MPM to cut memory 21:24:40 prefork sucks 21:24:46 fusss: Ahh OK, not a bad idea, (I am having problems with Parenscript + learning some javascript probably isn't a bad idea) 21:24:55 which is still the default due to stupid mod_php not being threadsafe 21:25:07 weirdo: I'm using hunchentoot, SBCL and pound 21:25:30 dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:25:44 -!- dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:51 dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 21:25:58 anyone used parenscript with html-template? 21:26:36 still, sbcl for me only takes 25MB after startup 21:26:43 are you running amd64? 21:26:48 *fusss* is running flash, dreamweaver, emacs, lispworks, mysql, and firefox with 80 tabs on a windows XP box with 1gig of ram. whoooooos ya dady? :-D 21:27:21 now it takes 70MB, but it's cl-perec, a memory hog :) 21:27:27 weirdo: Well I have stuff like hunchentoot dumped into the core with clbuild, could that add to it? 21:27:47 kzar, doesn't matter whether it's in the core, same memory usage 21:27:59 hi 21:28:14 (asdf-install:install :hunchentoot) what is the significance of the colon? 21:28:39 none, it expects a string designator 21:28:47 could as well write it as '#:hunchentoot 21:28:47 weirdo: Hmm well I guess I have SBCL and pretty much all the libraries instalaled I need so if the ram is OK just then hopefully it's OK. If my stuff pushes it a bit too far I can upgrade slightly and it should sort it 21:28:57 sunkencity_: the first colon seperates the package name from the symbol name. the second colon signifies the symbol is interned in the keyword package. 21:29:00 drewc: well, ucw didn't have it some time ago. 21:29:10 fusss: 80 tabs isn't many. 21:29:17 kzar, what is your architecture again? 21:29:39 fusss: do you store your bookmarks in tabs? 21:29:39 <-: 21:29:42 As I said, I'm going to take a closer look at ucw-core some time soon. 21:29:46 fusss: thx 21:29:51 -!- zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:30:00 weirdo: I'm not sure actually it's a VPS running with Xen, 2.6.18-6-xen-686 kernel 21:30:05 zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 21:30:07 ASau: at one point my firefox clocked 900 megs. it crashed as I was about to press print-screen 21:30:34 yep, it'll do that 21:30:45 lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:53 Google's Chrome thingy is far better as far as memory management goes, but is only available for Win32 for now 21:31:00 z0d: i don't bookmark as much as I used to. i just make sure my firefox history is never reset, and the smart url thing takes care of the rest 21:31:01 schaueho: it had at least cookies and urls .. but you're right, it lacked the meta-protocol in the RERL. 21:32:04 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:32:18 fusss: I increased the history to 200 days some years ago. Firefox was dog slow 21:32:26 so now I'musing the default 21:32:30 drewc: Maybe, but you know about the documentation lack of ucw, so maybe it was there but I overlooked it. 21:33:14 schaueho: that is a likely scenario. I'm hoping that getting-started is actually a good start.. and there is more to come. 21:33:14 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:33:59 Please, don't forget the mailing list. It's very quiet these days and not everyone is reading #ucw. 21:34:15 qbg [n=qbg@74.33.102.125] has joined #lisp 21:34:25 (which didn't seem to active itself the last few days I looked) 21:35:38 *schaueho* takes a quick look at cll and *sighs* 21:36:00 IBM is pushing Dojo like nobody 21:37:55 drewc: does the ucw-boxset still exist and include a recent version of ucw-core? 21:38:13 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:37 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c-98-200-245-184.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38:40 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:38:42 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c-98-200-245-184.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:45 schaueho: no, it does not. it's on my list of things to do though. 21:40:02 -!- mega1 [n=mega@53d824d1.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:40:05 k, because the Readme in http://common-lisp.net/project/ucw/repos/ucw-core/ still says so. 21:41:13 __zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 21:44:19 drewc: probably best to use clbuild 21:44:36 drewc: thanks for the cl-cont/arnesi example btw. 21:45:25 schaueho: patches welcome :) 21:45:38 no no .. i keeeed. i fix. 21:46:29 drewc: as time allows, as everybody always says. :) 21:47:21 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@82-35-80-105.cable.ubr03.dals.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:50:27 -!- schaueho [n=schauer@dslb-088-066-046-099.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [""Good night, don't let the lisp bugs bite""] 21:51:33 How about some rss feed for SBCL releases which includes the relevant section of NEWS? 21:51:39 Using streams over usockets are bidirectional right? 21:52:13 How is the News section on SBCL's website updated? Manually? 21:53:51 tcr: there's an RSS feed for gmane.lisp.steel-bank.announce. Would that work? 21:54:14 drewc: the issue with the locales, btw, is that whenever I update, I receive a notification that svnserve can't set the locales correctly. 21:54:45 (took me a while to figure out that it was actually c-l.net generating the error and not my local installation. 21:54:47 ehu: sorry.. forgot about that.. i fix now. 21:55:01 luis: I asked because I pondered whether it could be added to planet.lisp, but I just recall that Xach doesn't like planet.lisp to become some sort of release tracker which sentiment I can relate to. 21:55:37 tcr: do you know about planet SBCL? 21:55:51 -!- ehu [n=chatzill@82-170-33-173.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:07 drewc: thanks. I just wanted to provide you with a proper rationale. 21:56:11 Nice. 21:56:20 ehu`: :) 21:56:29 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:56:53 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:57:19 tcr: given that releases are pretty much every month, I don't think it would make sense to have that on planet lisp. OTOH, if you find some new feature/fix/improvement bloggable, that'd be much more interesting to have on the planet. 21:58:21 -!- zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:31 True, I'm among the elite after all! 22:00:00 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:03 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:03:21 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:03:33 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.151] has quit ["Puns are bad, poetry is verse"] 22:03:50 -!- __zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:04:07 __zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 22:06:29 -!- nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:06:49 I seem to remember this for some reason, is it true?: for the setf-method defined with the :accessor slot option, if the GF isn't defined, it's defined with (:argument-precedence-order obj new-value) 22:06:50 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 22:08:40 -!- ferada [n=ferada@g224145158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["leaving"] 22:09:15 -!- __zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has left #lisp 22:09:20 mekanical1 [n=mek@c-76-118-78-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:23 __zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has joined #lisp 22:09:45 -!- __zs [n=terry@72.169.66.158] has left #lisp 22:10:44 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:29 housel [n=housel@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 22:16:11 bloreg [n=leroy@ool-43568a3b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:16 klslslvee [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:50 fallenz [i=Fallen_@c-71-193-112-7.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:05 -!- klslslvee changed the topic of #lisp to: LISP PROGRAMMERS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FAT OR USUALLY DESPERATE FUCKFACES WHO CAN'T GET A DECENT LIFE! NOW IS THE TIME, A NEW YR TO CHANGE IT AND MAYBE JUST MAYBE GET LAID! ITS OK, YOU COULD EVEN TRY A 60YR OLD CUNTROT 22:17:06 -!- klslslvee [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:17:12 -!- lispelot is now known as lispelot|away 22:17:22 o.o 22:17:25 Ouch. 22:17:30 -!- lispelot|away is now known as lispelot 22:17:38 :) 22:18:43 What a lovely person... 22:19:18 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:19:23 -!- nyef changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming . New: SBCL 1.0.24, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 22:19:32 Yay for logs. 22:19:38 :) 22:19:51 I think that topic is still a little screwy. Missing a few words. 22:21:17 Too bad he didn't mention what to change. 22:21:31 -!- beach` is now known as beach 22:21:44 http://ufailpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/neverobsolete.jpg 22:21:53 Good morning. 22:21:57 Maybe change from Emacs to Climacs? 22:23:28 trbmw [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:33 -!- trbmw changed the topic of #lisp to: i said get offline and get a life! stop being a bunch of geek fucks who think they own the planet because they live/eat/shit/sex with lisp! 22:23:36 -!- trbmw [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:23:46 shouldn't it read, "the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language. paste: " 22:24:15 could some chanop set mode +t? 22:25:08 -!- Riastradh changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.24, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 22:25:31 the abuser is probably sitting on the channel right now, though 22:25:33 erole [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:37 -!- erole changed the topic of #lisp to: maybe zhivago could chanop set it! because you know why? he lives on irc! the chinese motherfucker is a lisp whore, eats?sleeps/shits with lisp 22:25:39 -!- erole [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:25:44 ...sigh. 22:26:00 hes not even funny 22:26:02 what's so great about having a life? real people never life up to one's standards... 22:26:25 weirdo: yeah, it's much more fun to troll IRC channels! 22:26:56 right, why won't the troll follow his own advice? 22:27:11 -!- weirdo changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.24, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 22:27:15 erole [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:18 -!- erole changed the topic of #lisp to: real people?!??!! what do you geek motherfuckers know about real people? LISP PIZZA AND BEER Is your life shitheads! accept your fate, you were made intelligent but you have 0 social life or rather you guys just get fugly asshats to get laid with 22:27:20 -!- erole [n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:27:33 mekanical1 22:27:44 get off aimchat already 22:27:45 jeez 22:27:54 wow, so he even automates sending the next message 22:28:12 *luis* yawns 22:29:09 Pardon? 22:29:41 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:29:57 -!- drewc changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.24, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 22:29:57 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:29:58 Some excitement today I see. 22:30:17 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 22:30:33 ddp [n=ddp@mobile-166-217-187-192.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:20 asvasvas [n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:31 -!- asvasvas changed the topic of #lisp to: SUCK MY BALS 22:31:33 -!- asvasvas [n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:31:58 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-132-85-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:32:01 ST47 [n=st47@wikipedia/ST47] has joined #lisp 22:32:03 I didn't realize anyone could set the topic. 22:32:17 As long as the channel mode +t is not set, anyone can change the topic. 22:32:24 -!- ddp changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.24, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 22:32:26 Ah, I see. 22:32:32 And it's intentional, too. 22:32:49 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:50 serle [n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:54 -!- serle changed the topic of #lisp to: I COULD! like this ! EAT SHIT AND GET A LIFE! GO OFFLINE FOR MAYBE JUST 5 MINS! 22:32:55 -!- serle [n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:32:58 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-153-129.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:03 So a temporary remedy for the problem would be for drewc to type `/mode #lisp +t'. 22:33:18 -!- drewc changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.24, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 22:33:27 -!- drewc has set mode +t 22:33:35 drewc: there's a space at the beginning 22:33:35 Done 22:33:41 :( 22:33:46 only 2 hosts are involved; n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net and n=cheriire@cpe-76-87-77-169.socal.res.rr.com 22:33:53 -!- drewc changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.24, usocket 0.4.1, ABCL 0.12, cl-net-snmp 5.19, yason-0.1, trivial-features 0.4, CFFI 0.10.3, series 2.2.10 22:33:57 pkhuong: proxies 22:33:59 it's probably an open proxy 22:34:00 LVLELEQ [n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:03 That's another 22:34:07 -!- LVLELEQ [n=checker@c-68-55-8-210.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:34:14 ST47: Same host. 22:34:24 So it is 22:34:47 So drewc can also type `/mode #lisp +bb ', where the hostnames are the ones that pkhuong listed. 22:34:52 Riastradh: Assuming that the banlist isn't full already, that is. 22:35:03 nyef: which it is. sigh :) 22:35:05 Riastradh: nah, no point, they'll just come back with other proxies 22:35:14 drewc: you need dircbot :) 22:35:20 ST47, again, this is only a temporary remedy for the problem. 22:35:31 The real solution is the purge the world of idiots. 22:35:33 But that's hard. 22:36:16 The next escalation in the remedy is a K-line. Then violence... 22:36:26 when I run append on a list and a single item i get a list with a dot in it, what's the dot about? 22:36:48 i suppose i need to append two lists to get what i want 22:36:57 sunkencity_: correct. 22:37:17 sunkencity_: (a b c) = (a . (b . (c . nil))) 22:37:21 the dot means that you have a list terminated with an atom that's not NIL. 22:37:38 The dot signifies an "improper" list, and is placed just before what's in the CDR of the last cons cell. 22:37:39 -!- ddp [n=ddp@mobile-166-217-187-192.mycingular.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:37:51 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.235.204] has joined #lisp 22:37:53 sunkencity_: I believe PCL's chapter about lists explains this well. 22:38:04 thanks! 22:38:10 now i get it 22:38:11 -!- drewc has set mode -b *!*n=Elby@*.res.east.verizon.net 22:38:20 isn't the PCL book site down? 22:38:27 Yes 22:38:28 -!- ST47 [n=st47@wikipedia/ST47] has left #lisp 22:38:31 As far as I know. 22:38:36 minion: That-dead-sexy-book? 22:38:36 That-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 22:38:37 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B5BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:42 I have it downloaded if you want me to upload any of the chapters. 22:38:42 9 22:38:45 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:50 -!- drewc has set mode -b *!i=c9aaaf23@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0a72bbc78bf51ba9 22:38:52 Hrm. 22:38:53 drew 9? 22:38:53 Google cache is still up 22:39:02 lispelot: good point. 22:39:08 I think gigamonkey is hosted by drewc. 22:39:16 it is 22:39:18 There's also the PDF on Apress's site. 22:39:19 Though that doesn't help the need for the code 22:39:27 luis: I think it is down now. 22:39:39 luis: i think they removed the free pdf link, that is 22:40:04 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-76-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 22:40:25 google and ye shall find :-) 22:40:30 http://web.archive.org/web/20071218144637rn_1/www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 22:41:14 Oh, wow! just scrolled up! 22:41:33 lispelot: good thing I've got my copy around then. 22:41:44 web archive has it all i think 22:41:47 fusss: don't feed the trolls. :-) 22:42:09 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:42:50 luis: i didn't see the heated debate about the AA fonts for gsharp. them CLIM hackers! 22:43:08 hey 22:43:20 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B2D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:29 is there any emacs mode for disappearing the cursor when typing? 22:44:43 weirdo: duh, yes of course. you can change the cursor to filled block, hollow, caret or whatever. 22:44:49 M-x customize-mode 22:45:34 this was supposed to be said to #emacs 22:45:45 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.235.204] has quit ["He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the aby] 22:46:16 half of emacs is in #lisp. /me queue xach graphic 22:46:34 crap, i hosed my emacs. 22:47:15 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:47:24 how could i disappear the cursor, then? :) 22:47:53 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:11 -!- slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B2D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:48:15 manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-76-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:17 Lots of new people here today it seems. 22:49:10 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B5BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:21 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:52 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:49:58 weirdo: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Cursor-Display.html 22:50:46 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@port-92-205-76-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:46 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:52:14 eh. 22:52:20 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:25 if only i could clear an erroneous eval-after-load 22:52:40 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:53:48 fusss: I don't see any such debate either. But we discussed the font that I am currenly designing for McCLIM (which of course doesn't mean it is going to be mandatory for all McCLIM users). 22:53:55 -!- mekanical1 [n=mek@c-76-118-78-185.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:54:05 fusss, i don't see any option to make the cursor disappear when i start typing 22:55:18 beach: oh, that was a really tongue in the cheek remark about "not feeding the trolls". some dickwad made a scene and i didn't want to acknowledge it. so i made up something to be surprised about :-P 22:55:35 ok. so it should work without restarting emacs 22:55:36 Ah, missed it. 22:56:22 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-179-109-100.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:29 -!- weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:57:09 Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 22:57:45 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ChangingCursorDynamically 22:57:59 probably overkill 22:58:21 weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:59:08 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:00 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb36f0.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 23:00:59 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:01:00 weirdo: mouse-avoidance-mode 23:02:28 too bad the cursor can't just disappear like in urxvt 23:02:47 perhaps another reason to switch to climacs 23:04:42 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 23:04:43 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:05:42 -!- Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit ["Go Canada!"] 23:05:44 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:33 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:08:09 too bad, this Ferrari doesn't allow me to dangle my legs and brake with my feet in case of emergency. perhaps another reason to switch to a bicycle :-P 23:08:25 (with apologies to climacs hackers :-P) 23:10:07 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:13:36 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A1C95.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:16:47 -!- matley [n=matley@83.225.205.175] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:17:26 slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BE8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:51 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0AB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:18:25 -!- bloreg [n=leroy@ool-43568a3b.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 23:21:40 a large degree of elisp compatibility can possibly be implemented with time :) 23:22:00 weirdo: Thank you for volunteering. :-P 23:22:54 i mean, how hard could that be? elisp is sucky, but at least we could metacircularize and properly implement LEXICAL-LET :)) 23:23:17 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.14.80] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:23:21 benny [n=benny@i577A1C95.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:23:38 weirdo: there's simply too much elisp code around 23:23:51 it's not just elisp .. you'd also have to implement most of emacs itself.. the buffer protocols etc are completely different 23:23:53 there's a CL impl in elisp, it could be run in elisp written in CL too, ad infinitum 23:24:23 to gain a bunch of applications written in elisp? 23:24:29 i don't think so! 23:24:32 :) 23:25:04 it would be less effort to simply re-implement the needed software on top of ESA 23:25:09 well, right... it's easier to write an email and news client, there's already a web browser 23:25:14 what's ESA? 23:25:18 minion: ESA 23:25:19 ESA: ESA is a layer atop CLIM functionality to provide an Emacs-Style Application framework. http://www.cliki.net/ESA 23:25:29 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0A505.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:34 does it have cells? :)) 23:26:52 i don't like kenny's business model or his implicitly interning macros in defmodel, but some other cells engine could be used atop mcclim 23:27:02 -!- lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 23:27:06 weirdo: we have a new browser (Closure) that can be worked on, and there is en embryonic implementation of an email client (Stamp). 23:27:46 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-153-129.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:28:15 beach, closure needs javascript and i can do that once i finish converting my pattern matcher to CLOS and then adding context-free-grammar functionality to it 23:28:33 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:28:53 it should be pretty equivalent to parsec if i don't fall asleep too much during reading the packrat thesis... 23:29:09 weirdo: That should keep you busy. 23:29:09 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:29:31 disumu [n=disumu@p57A2620E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:18 my friend is writing a thesis and they forced him to write an introduction and explain any obvious detail. i mean, how ridiculous academia is? 23:30:39 oh, yeah, somewhere inbetween writing all this code i need to start my hosting company 23:31:07 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:27 that all certainly warrants more efficient sleeping schedules *makes note to self* 23:34:20 sohum [n=sohum@114.73.25.79] has joined #lisp 23:34:59 hi guys, how do I get a do where the body is run at least once before the quit-test is tested? 23:36:50 sohum: I don't think you do. 23:37:14 sohum: for starters, you can move the quit test to the body of the DO, test with IF and RETURN :-P and then there is LOOP .. 23:37:18 -!- sunkencity_ [n=sunkenci@h121n2c1o1036.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:21 -!- bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:37:22 -!- slash__ [n=Unknown@p4FF0BE8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:48 sohum: you write your own, or use (loop for ... do .. (when ... (return))) 23:38:06 fusss: weelll. if I was going to do that I'd just look at do's source and remove the test 23:38:12 I just wondered if one already existed 23:39:03 or, actually do with NIL for the termination test and an explicit (when ... (return)) at the end. 23:39:21 mmmm, that would be cleaner 23:39:37 thanks, guys! 23:41:12 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:59 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:10 Well I got good inspiration to work clim-player up to something nice :) 23:43:12 sohum: (loop do ... while ...) 23:43:23 sohum: or (loop do ... until ...) 23:43:38 Is it just me than finds (loop doING ...) nicer? :) 23:43:49 pjb: sorry, I'm trying to use s-expressions as much as possible. I know of the loop macro, thanks! 23:44:05 schme: Not just you. 23:44:10 Then indeed you'll have to write your own macro. 23:44:22 However, I still think it's (loop while ... do ...). 23:44:45 nyef: sohum wanted the body executed at least once. 23:44:56 Yeah, in that case, loop doing. 23:45:02 sohum: (loop :for .. :do ..) 23:45:10 you can use keywords 23:45:29 Yeah, loop "keywords" are symbols compared by their print-name. 23:45:39 lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:51 -!- lispelot [n=lispelot@ip72-200-172-70.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:47:12 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.217.13] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:47:41 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 23:48:49 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279439877.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:50:45 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:51:04 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.129.98] has joined #lisp 23:53:16 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:54:02 -!- schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:54:58 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Client Quit] 23:55:09 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #lisp 23:56:28 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:58:47 schme [n=marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 23:59:22 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp