00:00:17 hoh this seems complicated. 00:00:55 Ok people, will see you next year. Happy New Year!!! 00:00:57 mhoelzl [n=tc@dslb-088-064-011-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:58 -!- Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has left #lisp 00:01:17 2010? 00:01:27 hahaha 00:01:27 -!- mhoelzl [n=tc@dslb-088-064-011-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 00:02:30 are people going to come in and say "happy new year" every hour? 00:03:07 yeah, until all parts of the world have safely arrived in the new year 00:03:14 eflynn: Nope. New year is over, so no more. 00:03:42 how do you send the form on current curcor to slime, the form should go all way up to toplevel. ? 00:04:07 what top-level? 00:04:11 i'm gmt-5 00:04:12 as in being LOADed 00:04:51 -!- jimi_hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:04:56 lhz: just press enter, i guess 00:05:11 lhz: you talking about in a file, or the slime repl 00:05:20 Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 00:05:36 eflynn: i'm in a file under viper-mode 00:05:54 Jimi___Hendrix, hey joe, what you doing with that gun in your hand? 00:06:33 lhz: do you know how to list a mode's commands? 00:06:46 lismp: no 00:06:56 -!- aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-74275be6090ecd80] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 00:06:57 or apropos in Emacs? 00:07:05 lispm: no 00:07:07 c-h a is apropos 00:07:14 aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6aa56eb036bb1dff] has joined #lisp 00:07:18 c-h m shows infos about the mode 00:07:42 try m-x doctor 00:08:14 -!- Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:08:15 doctor does not help with Lisp programming 00:09:23 -!- Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:09:50 Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 00:10:17 -!- Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:10:42 Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #lisp 00:11:22 I mean if your cursor is in the middle of an defun and you press m-x-e. 00:12:00 m-x-e ? 00:12:31 is there any equality predicate that returns T for objects whose slots have equal content? 00:12:46 danderson: No. 00:13:28 aw. And no generic way to implement such a predicate I assume, I have to painfully define one for each class I have? 00:13:53 schme: sorry c-x-e 00:14:13 Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has joined #lisp 00:14:17 the objects should have the same number of slots with the same slot names and the same slot contents? 00:14:17 danderson: That sounds about right, yes. 00:14:29 danderson: Or maybe do some MOP magic. 00:14:50 -!- Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:15:04 lispm: and be instances of the same type. I'm looking for a reasonably common sense deep-comparison (though I know how much common sense can change depending on context) 00:15:20 Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@c-98-221-29-216.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:26 but eh, so far I have only a few classes, I'll just define my own predicates. 00:15:28 Thanks for the info. 00:15:52 get the slots from the class, extract the slot names and iterate of them, calling a comparison function 00:16:15 but afaik, getting the slots requires using an implementation-specific function, right? 00:16:27 class-slots 00:16:39 danderson: So you need to check the class and go through the slots. Sounds fun enough. You can save yourself a bunch of problem by closer-mop 00:16:47 -!- Draggor [n=Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [No route to host] 00:16:54 class-slots being implementation-specific as in maybe it is not there ;) 00:17:05 class-slots doesn't exist in SBCL, yeah :) 00:17:19 it does have a function for that, and it's in my irc log somewhere. Searching for it. 00:17:20 (apropos "CLASS-SLOTS") 00:17:46 but right now, I think it's a case of overkill. I just need one comparison, for a single class, for use in unit tests. I think I'll just go the specialist way for now 00:17:46 sb-mop:class-slots me thinks. 00:18:04 right, that's the one 00:18:04 right 00:18:07 -!- Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 00:18:13 Maybe (defclass-with-a-tester ...) ;) 00:18:29 heh 00:19:12 I'm actually a little confused about mop's place in CL. Is it an API common to many implementations, but that just didn't make it to the spec? 00:19:21 kind of like ffi? 00:19:29 kind of 00:19:52 some implementations don't provide the full MOP 00:20:10 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B5CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:14 the MOP has some introspective functions, but there is also more 00:21:00 -!- Madars- [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has left #lisp 00:21:06 right, looking through SBCL's record of differences between sb-mop and AMOP (whereever that comes from), it seems to cover a wide range of stuff. 00:21:17 I'll have to take a look, once my todo stack lightens a bit. 00:21:18 it was thought that the MOP brings some costs (complexity, speed, ...) 00:22:01 danderson: AMOP issa book :) 00:22:09 SBCL has better MOP support than some other implementations, but generally the trend in the last years was for all implementations to provide more support 00:22:20 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:22:47 AMOP has a spec part: 00:22:49 http://lispm.dyndns.org/documentation/amop/toc.html 00:23:24 cool, thanks for the details! 00:24:07 It's fascinating to me how much more organic growth around standards CL has compared to other languages I know 00:24:10 Rather cool. 00:24:36 Martinp25 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has joined #lisp 00:27:33 danderson: Only problem would be that the standard is stale as something really stale :) 00:28:19 -!- Martinp25 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:20 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-038-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:55 One of those vending-machine peanut-butter-and-cheese-cracker-sandwich things? 00:31:14 Hmmm... Never tried 'em. 00:31:27 peanut butter is very nasty on anything, so that sounds bad though. 00:32:25 Rumour has it that they're made to be stale straight from the bakery, so they can't get any worse as they hang around in the vending machine for ages. 00:33:01 Aaah makes sense. 00:33:26 I'm scared of vending machines. Used to get me coffee from one of them back at uni, 'til the cleaning lady explained how filthy they are on the inside :S 00:33:49 -!- hbock [n=hbock@96.238.4.35] has quit ["leaving"] 00:37:32 -!- davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:40:30 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-060-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:31 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 00:41:02 karlw [n=user@cpe-76-168-206-252.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:27 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B41A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:44:31 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 00:46:14 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:25 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:58 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:50:38 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 00:52:07 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:53:09 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 00:53:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 00:53:47 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 00:54:08 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 01:00:15 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:03 -!- ironChicken [n=richard@host81-141-39-58.wlms-broadband.com] has left #lisp 01:01:35 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:07:13 -!- lenst [n=user@host-217-214-138-169.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:08:06 Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has joined #lisp 01:09:04 happy newyear all 01:10:13 dito 01:10:17 same to you 01:11:51 Just less than four hours go to here. 01:12:26 But for those of you at GMT-1 or later, enjoy the new year. 01:14:04 oh am i ever going to enjoy it! more slaving away for 10 bucks an hour! 01:14:31 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-126-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:04 koning_robot: then I whish you a higher wage and more freedom 01:15:09 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-21-155.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 01:19:20 is anyone at GMT-1? 01:19:22 madnificent: haha thanks, although a less money-dependent (dare I say completely money-independent?) future would probably be better 01:19:25 isn't that just the sea? :) 01:19:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMT-1 :P 01:20:04 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:09 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:20:11 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 01:20:14 koning_robot: the bastards! 01:21:08 -!- Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:21:19 assholes, if you will! 01:23:04 good evening all 01:23:46 let me guess before i look it up... newfoundland? or greenland 01:24:35 greenland 01:24:37 greenland is correct 01:24:44 and portugal 01:27:21 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:36 rsynnott, are you friends with rasmus lerdorf? 01:28:13 +1 if you know who that is 01:30:50 the php guy 01:31:13 yes 01:31:29 who is from greenland 01:33:25 Happy new year! 01:33:38 new year? 2010? 01:33:46 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has left #lisp 01:33:59 go back to 2001 they're waiting for you :P 01:34:01 It's still 5:30 in the US 01:34:21 (California) 01:34:23 oh right, stupid me, the US has only one timezone 01:34:30 :) :) 01:34:41 O_o 01:34:46 hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 01:35:00 karlw: Here in the US, by contrast, it's just gone 8:30. :-P 01:35:14 nyef: yay, you're on est too 01:38:22 Yes, as I said twenty-five minutes ago. 01:39:23 beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has joined #lisp 01:39:28 Hello beach. 01:39:39 Good morning, and a Happy New Year to everyone! 01:39:46 *groan* 01:39:48 How's 2009 so far? 01:40:19 nyef: so far so good! The Champagne was great, breakfast is reasonable as usual. 01:40:29 beach: what timezone? 01:40:37 Vietnam 01:40:53 eflynn: UTC+7 or so 01:41:02 really 01:41:06 cool 01:41:36 beach: How long are you there for, anyway? 01:41:54 nyef: I leave on January 17 I think. 01:41:59 Ahh, cool. 01:42:35 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:44:08 -!- aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6aa56eb036bb1dff] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:44:12 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-177.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:44:14 aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4a7577c3ad36671b] has joined #lisp 01:46:09 -!- schoppen1auer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:46:42 -!- smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 01:46:50 Yeah, leaving the European darkness for a month suits me just fine. 01:47:35 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:47:44 lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:56:11 One thing I like about this place is that they take Internet access seriously. Even the dinky airport of Nha Trang had free unlimited Wifi access. In Paris, you have to compete for half a dozen chairs, and take out your credit card. At the Paris hotel it was like a Euro per 15 minutes. And compared to New Zealand, it is incredible. There, they have a limited number of bytes per month that you can download. 01:56:26 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["leaving"] 01:56:50 In other words, Vietnam seem more civilized to me than France, New Zealand, and the UK in this respect. Don't know about the US these days. 01:58:14 i'm sure there are hotels in france that dont charge for net access 01:58:27 (as well as plenty of wifi activity) 01:58:36 Possibly. But I haven't seen any. 01:59:39 never been to france but it definately seems out of the ordinary 02:00:09 Well, the UK seems the same. 02:01:18 they time-charge you ? 02:01:42 Yeah. And a significant amount. 02:01:46 The US is kindof variable. 02:02:08 Some places charge, some places don't, but require a login of some sort, some places are free-and-open, etc. 02:03:07 Aren't you US of Asians supposed to be at a newyear's party by now anyway? 02:03:32 I couldn't be bothered. 02:03:48 Too much social activity? 02:04:43 Not exactly. 02:05:34 I was planning on celebrating quietly at home, pondering the past year, turning in well before midnight, and so on. 02:05:57 That seems like a good resolution. 02:06:07 Beats 1280x800, that's for sure. 02:06:42 Yes, and certainly beats 1024x768 :( 02:07:17 And spare us the horrors of 800x600. 02:07:20 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:25 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:25 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:08:28 billstclai [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:08:44 Oh I did a fun one the other day. This mcclim app I'm working on here on the big screen. Fired it up on the 1024x768 laptop. sheeesh. 02:08:50 That was less nice. 02:09:56 schme_: Aren't you supposed to have had too much Champagne by now? 02:10:09 :) 02:10:15 I don't drink alcohol ;) 02:10:23 Ah, that explains it. 02:10:27 too much for what? 02:10:28 Also we are spending new years at home doing nothing 'cause we have pretty bad colds going here. 02:10:40 -!- billstclai [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:10:51 Sorry to hear that. 02:11:19 rvirding: for being coherent on #lisp 02:12:09 :-) i am never very coherent so it doesn't affect me that much 02:12:20 heh! 02:14:13 :) 02:17:17 Atleast all the holidays let me recouperate 02:17:19 eh 02:17:21 recuperate 02:17:36 without losing any pay. I was hoping to spend it hacking code, but oh well :) 02:19:35 What's preventing you? 02:20:02 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 02:21:01 *karlw* still doesn't get I-expressions. 02:21:06 Hacking while miserably sick is not fun, and rarely produces good code. 02:21:17 ... "I-expressions"? 02:21:18 -!- hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:22:57 beach: Exactly what nyef said. I can hardly keep myself sitting straight up here in the chair, let alone keep my focus long enough to actually get some code action going. 02:23:28 nyef: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49/srfi-49.html 02:23:50 schme_: you need to be sick in the right way :-) unfortunately a bad cold is the wrong way for hacking 02:24:19 rvirding: Good point. Sometimes it works really well. But this is just wrong. 02:24:52 oh. 02:24:55 It's like python. 02:25:00 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:00 indentation does the magic. 02:25:14 schme_: I know I shouldn't do this but: var bor du förresten? jag såg att du är i sverige 02:25:24 Oh no more swedes :( 02:25:28 rvirding: Jag bor i Malmö :) 02:25:52 rvirding: Och nu slår du på P3 genast! take my breath away för fasiken! 02:26:00 jajaminsann, själv bor jag is stockholm 02:26:13 Åh fan. 02:26:26 Jag ska åka upp där och hälsa på under 2009. Ska bli kul att se vad det är alla pratar om. 02:27:04 *beach* can't handle Swedish right now. Vietnamese, English, and French is quite enough, thank you very much. 02:27:04 Right so maybe english. 02:27:08 kungliga hufvudstaden och allt det där 02:27:20 ok ok 02:27:26 rvirding: I've never been north of vänern. 02:27:37 your poor man :-) 02:27:42 But that was my one time north of helsingborg ;) 02:28:00 Yeees.. somehow I more enjoy going southwards to the warmth. 02:28:03 I have been to malmö twice for conferences and have driven through it 02:28:18 rvirding: It's a nice place nowadays. 02:28:20 reservdanskar (sorry beach) 02:28:41 beach: Actually I'm worried about all the rioting in rosengård lately :) 02:28:51 don't know enough of it to really comment 02:28:54 Yes! Skåne till danskarna! 02:29:06 rvirding: I find it interesting that Malmö is reattaching itself to København and detatching itself from Stockholm. 02:29:46 It makes sense. The airport is closer. Danish food is better, etc. 02:30:00 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-208-189.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:30:11 but the language is hard to understand 02:30:17 Nah. 02:30:19 rvirding: says who? 02:30:37 says anyone further north :-) 02:30:43 What is strange to understand is that strange sound you guys up north make when you're pronouncing "R" 02:30:48 ;) 02:31:06 (putting on my euro hat) anyway we're all part of europe now 02:31:18 Indeed. 02:31:31 have never been able to do proper "r" 02:32:04 It's a bit troublesome with the whole "all part of europe" thing though. I can't really work in both denmark and sweden. 02:32:11 So that's a bit dumb. 02:32:27 I know, but we are getting there, slowly 02:32:34 Yes indeed :) 02:33:12 Too slowly for my taste. I still have to use that silly currency when I go to Denmark or Sweden. 02:33:49 Just pay with the card ;) 02:33:55 It's so typical for Sweden to think that they are still a superpower, so they can control the monetary policy of the entire world. 02:34:08 Ah yes. 02:34:21 Like when we sent a letter of protest to the US president over the whole iraq war. 02:34:30 heh! 02:34:52 divinebovine [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:54 of course we can, the rest of the world just don't realise it 02:34:57 -!- vorian [i=steve@freenode/staff/vorian] has quit ["Changing server"] 02:35:10 rvirding: Exactly my point, yes. 02:36:01 though i think we should have joined euroland 02:36:19 Me too. 02:36:23 stupid being a member of eu but not using euro 02:36:41 Well that part makes perfect sense to me. 02:36:47 I like the EMU though :) 02:37:08 That's a kind of Ostrich isn't it? 02:37:19 Ostrich? 02:37:27 Struts 02:37:36 Ok you've lost me. 02:37:37 don't give away your freedom to EU bureaucrats 02:37:54 The EMU has not much to do with the EU bureaucrats though :) 02:38:05 yeah, I'm lagging behind 02:38:09 oh 02:38:48 schme_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu 02:39:02 It's a bit odd with the "giving away the power to the EU". A lot of power has transfered downwards. 02:39:08 like closing the barn door after the horses have run away 02:39:22 aha. 02:39:31 beach: I meant the European Monetary Union :P 02:39:43 schme_: Ah :) 02:39:48 But I suppose the central state has lost a lot of power. 02:40:16 But they nowadays can go "Hey guys. sorry. the EU is forcing is." and no one will check that they were all for it all the time. 02:40:19 heh. 02:41:10 -!- Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:41:11 I personally feel much closer to the European parliment than I ever did to the Swedish one. 02:41:21 beach: Me too. It's quite odd. 02:41:34 Maybe it's a Malmoe thing. :) 02:41:36 Martinp23 [i=martinp2@freenode/staff/wikimedia.martinp23] has joined #lisp 02:42:25 schme_: Possibly. I also have some colleages that lobbied the EU parliament to defeat the software patent proposal (which was written by a MS employee). 02:42:52 Ah cool. 02:43:10 Well time for more coffee. 02:43:28 schme_: Good plan. I have had my 6 cups already. 02:43:34 new years eve resolution of cutting out the tobacco. Been 4 hrs now. 02:43:35 6 cups.. 02:43:40 That's breakfast. 02:43:43 yeah 02:43:57 :) 02:44:15 schme_: Giving up smoking is a good thing. I did that some 30 years ago now. 02:45:50 i gave up before i started, but then i'm good :-) 02:45:51 dankna [n=d@ool-43516bc9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.196.89] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:47:14 beach: good work! 02:49:37 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-126-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:51:41 It only takes about 5-10 years to get rid of the desire to smoke :( 02:52:01 Well how hard can it be. 02:52:06 :) 02:52:40 Exactly. All it takes is determination. 02:54:22 The first week is pure hell, the first month is very hard. The first year is quite difficult. The first five years pretty bad. Then it gets better. 02:54:47 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 02:54:59 its easier if you find a new addiction 02:55:20 physical addiction should take about a week max, then its all psychology 02:55:24 like writing Lisp code? (to get back on topic) 02:55:31 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:55:34 sounds good to me 02:55:51 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008121622]"] 02:57:12 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:34 beach: I remember last time I didn't sleep for 2 weeks. 02:58:08 I have several other addictions to keep me occupied. But with a cold it's not so good. I like to lie around in bed and smoke a pack or three when I'm sick :) 02:59:15 Last time I had a bad cold I discovered that drowning it in orange juice and water (and no food) seemed to help. I don't know if that'd work for anyone else, or if it's even repeatable for me, though. 03:00:10 hmmm... 03:00:46 Instant noodles with lots of hot peppers helps as well. 03:01:19 Yum. 03:03:03 The theory behind the juice is that it's a lot easier to digest than solid food, and thus saves your energy for healing instead of digestion. 03:03:23 The theory behind the noodles and hot peppers probably has to do with steam and other sinus-clearing effects. 03:03:36 True. 03:04:17 I just like the protein shakes ;) 03:04:46 Maybe next time I get sick I'll try spicy hot v8 instead of orange juice. 03:05:09 vitamin c is what got you boosted 03:05:13 Is there a good lisp template framework that functions similarly to PHP & Smarty? 03:05:24 I'm getting tired of writing this PHP app. 03:05:45 nyef, so even better, just eat lots of lemons 03:05:52 *schme_* googles smarty. 03:06:01 oudeis: Umm... I'd prefer oranges to lemons. 03:06:22 juicing 'em for better digestion then :) 03:06:27 whatever fruit you can find with high vitamin c content 03:06:37 papaya :) 03:06:52 Papaya goes best with lemon juice. 03:07:09 schme_: Smarty is an HTML template system for PHP, if memory serves. I'm fairly sure I had to work with it at one point, but my memory of the details has thankfully faded. 03:07:12 In Hawai'i we have huge papayas that you can put a whole lemon in. 03:07:17 that boosts immune system; if you want to kill a bunch of bacteria, eat raw garlic 03:07:47 fooquux: Oh you're in hawaii? We had a hawaiin girl living here for a few months. She also mentioned the papayas. 03:07:59 Yes, papayas are everywhere. 03:08:26 They're good for jellyfish stings too. :) 03:08:31 nyef: Looking at the webpage now. HTML is just something I don't get. :) 03:08:42 "template engine" no idea what that means. heh. 03:09:10 It means you write HTML with some template code, and then call it from a script that generates real HTML pages. 03:09:23 I sees. 03:09:32 So foo.php & foo.tpl  foo.html 03:09:33 I was playing around with cl-weblocks some time ago. Maybe that is something like it. 03:09:42 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:43 schme_: in cl terms: format string is a template; format function is a template engine 03:09:44 Transparently, the user just points a browser to foo.php. 03:09:48 It's basically so that the web designers can do their thing, splice in some stuff to sub in appropriate content, and not have to involve the programmers... in theory. 03:09:56 That's the idea. 03:10:07 I'm starting to remember too much about it, now. 03:10:07 I love theory ;) 03:10:20 It's halfway decent if you keep things simple. 03:10:22 Theory is wonderful, everything works there! 03:10:34 In theory this is a PHP application. 03:10:45 I am thinking in practice *I* would be happier with a Lisp application. 03:10:49 So what is the difference between a web framework and a template engine? 03:10:58 Screw "maintainability", I'm going to be maintaining it forever. 03:11:08 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:11:14 Typically, a web framework has/uses/contains a template engine. 03:11:55 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:58 Oh I see I see. The framework is the whole thing behind the scene to manage the ordering of the products, while the template just generates html from the objects in the basket. 03:12:02 engine. 03:12:03 nevermind. 03:12:10 Yeah. 03:13:04 So the template is just plain HTML (& JS) with some extra markup in it, and that extra markup gets processed to become more HTML. 03:13:14 I think I need to sign off before I remember too much more of the details of bloody X-Cart. 03:13:21 Hahaha. 03:13:34 fooquux: I have not the slightest idea what you would look for in the CL world then :) 03:13:45 *fooquux* sighs. 03:13:45 "Is there a good lisp template framework that functions similarly to PHP & Smarty?" umm .. no, because php+smarty is not good! 03:13:56 Well, I know that. 03:13:57 html-template 03:14:10 minion: html-template 03:14:11 html-template: HTML-TEMPLATE is a Library to use templates much like Perl's HTML::Template. http://www.cliki.net/html-template 03:14:21 minion: cl-who? 03:14:22 cl-who: CL-WHO is yet another specimen of the Lisp Markup Languages category, that is, it's a Web library to create (X)HTML from S-expressions. http://www.cliki.net/cl-who 03:14:33 That looks pretty much like what I'd want. 03:14:34 I liked the stuff from cl-blog... Some sort of xml-mixed-mode-based template thing. 03:14:42 minion: yaclml 03:14:43 yaclml: Yet Another Common Lisp Markup Language is a collection common lisp library for generating XML/HTML from lisp code or templates. http://www.cliki.net/yaclml 03:14:44 I don't want to go down the LML route. 03:14:45 can anyone point me towards a lex/flex like tool for lisp? 03:14:56 yaclml has TAL, and xml template engine 03:15:12 mainly after syntax used in definition file 03:15:23 Basically, you wrote your HTML as normal, then you put custom tags into it that your Lisp code recognized... 03:15:43 minion: cl-blog? 03:15:43 cl-blog: cl-blog is a blog engine in Common Lisp (and Application) that Brian Mastenbrook wrote and uses. http://www.cliki.net/cl-blog 03:15:51 Anyway, I really am signing off now. 03:15:56 bye! 03:15:59 nyef: bye :) 03:16:06 "Eventually, Lisp-on-Lines will encompass every Lisp library known to the human race" 03:16:08 G'night all, and have a happy new year! 03:16:15 -!- nyef [n=nyef@64.222.164.52] has quit ["Sleep. Sleep is good."] 03:17:01 fooquux: please don't read that document 03:17:17 Okay, I'll stop. 03:17:23 fooquux: it's years out of date, was never completed, and does not represent LoL at alkl 03:17:27 at all 03:17:45 if you'd like to know about lol, i'd be happy to answer any questions you might have 03:18:04 I'm just shopping at the moment. 03:18:23 fooquux: if you're looking for a php like approach, lol is not it 03:18:35 Didn't think so. 03:18:55 because really .. that's a terrible approach 03:18:59 :) 03:21:52 Well, I have a half-written application that reimplements a preexisting application in PHP3 & MySQL 4 :( 03:22:03 If I use a similar approach then there is less thinking required. 03:22:12 I'd like to get something sort of working in a couple of weeks. 03:22:24 The database design is already done. 03:22:35 All I have to do is kluge up an interface. 03:23:36 Hmm.. 03:23:51 My thinking is that if you have a working php3 one, why in a hurry? :) 03:24:02 It works, but not for us. 03:24:16 It is full of weird hardcoded cruft for a different installation. 03:24:18 Ah good one :) 03:25:03 Also it uses a *custom* template engine written in old PHP that won't even run in newer interpreters. 03:25:11 Oh, and no comments. 03:25:15 *fooquux* barfs. 03:25:26 That's just excellent :) 03:27:00 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-177-106-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:28:39 Does Edi Weitz just wake up every morning and write a brand new Lisp library for something? 03:34:34 What a good life. 03:35:15 Logo-like syntax may catch on better than I-expressions even 03:35:15 though it doesn't give ``full power.'' 03:36:44 I-expressions? 03:36:54 I only know of M-expressions and S-expressions... 03:37:02 it's the indentation thing. 03:37:17 Like python and the haskell too I believe. 03:37:21 oic 03:37:23 SRFI 49 03:37:48 It's /worse/ than Python. 03:37:57 That's hard to do. 03:38:44 Eew. 03:39:09 Why does every new Lisper end up implementing some kind of broken syntax on top of Lisp? 03:39:18 It's been going on since the days of LISP 1.5. 03:39:54 I blame the parens. 03:40:26 Okay, so if I use HTML-TEMPLATE, what should I use to get there from the web server? 03:40:39 CGI-Lisp? 03:41:05 I like parens, but they seem to really get to new users. 03:41:47 I don't want to replace s-expressions. 03:41:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 03:47:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/72885 03:48:17 I think that got messed up. 03:48:23 Oh 03:48:26 L-expression? 03:48:33 Line ? :) 03:48:40 Logo-expression 03:48:45 hmm ok. 03:48:51 What is good aboot it? 03:49:23 More examples: http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~bh/v3ch5/langi.html 03:49:24 *fooquux* notes schme_ is typing with a Canadian accent. 03:49:32 fooquux: indeed :) 03:51:06 The point is that beginners hate parens. Also, a Logo program may be easily represented as a unary tree of lists. 03:51:37 Hmmm.. 03:51:48 I actually liked the parens from the start. 03:51:51 They're so round. 03:52:15 karlw: I don't find it important to cater to arbitrary desires of beginners. 03:52:38 karlw: Especially if doing so dumbs down the language. 03:53:16 I did also, but I'm saying this based on my experience as a lab assistant for an introductory course. 03:54:52 Once they've gotten addicted to programs as data, they won't be able 03:54:52 to resist the sinister urge of using s-expressions. 03:55:09 Hmm... 03:55:23 So get 'em going on logo ? 03:55:29 writing a compiler is certainly more pleasurable with s-exprs 03:55:51 Indeed. 03:56:01 (as I'm discovering :) 03:56:27 karlw: Students are able to resist pretty much anything that requires learning or thinking. 03:56:45 Isn't that why one becomes a student? 03:56:55 Hmm.. maybe some just want the degree I guess. 03:56:57 schme_: depends on where you live. 03:57:41 schme_: In France, anyone with a highschool degree is automatically accepted at the university, so we get lots of students that are there because they have nothing better to do. 03:57:55 Oh neat. 03:58:18 Logo has issues, though. It's dynamically scoped and doesn't support macros (.macro in the UCB implementation doesn't give ``true'' macros). 03:58:54 fooquux: if you're just planning on doin CGI/php stuff .. why bother with lisp at all? doing php-in-lisp will gain you very little over doing php in, say, php :) 03:59:18 I'm also thinking about why Lisp isn't more widely used. 03:59:37 drewc: Because I intend to live with it for a long time, and hopefully improve it over time into something more mature. 03:59:54 karlw: Why does that surprise you? 04:00:02 Also the limitations in PHP are rapidly pissing me off. 04:00:13 fooquux: fair enough .. but as a lisp web developer,. i have to tell you 'i think you're doing it wrong' 04:00:28 Gotta start somehow, though. 04:00:55 you don't build a house on poor foundations! 04:01:29 no, but you can build a church on good foundations next to the house and then move into that church 04:01:56 Because Lisp isn't very different from, say, Python (even though Lisp is faster, etc). 04:01:57 and be miserable for years in the process 04:02:17 ah well, what do i know. 04:02:44 karlw: Such thinking is based on the false assumption that good things are bound to be widely used. There is no evidence of that in the world, so that should not come as a surprise. Take things like Betamax which was better than VHS. Or take the internal combustion engine, which is a catastrophe compared to other technology. 04:03:02 karlw: Lisp is _very_ different from, say, python! 04:03:35 Well we're going to fry up some chicken and fix us some french fries while you fight this out. 04:03:39 May the best lisper win. 04:03:40 I'd say that python is very different from lisp. :) 04:04:28 beach: why is the ICE worse than other tech? 04:05:31 drewc: It's easy to extend Lisp to support any programming style you want. For example, I like Haskell's style, so I wrote macros to implement it. 04:05:36 Adamant: terrible efficiency. Terrible momentum at low speeds. 04:05:45 karlw: how is that like python? 04:06:10 beach: all the other alternatives have had worse problems, and that's only been changing recently 04:06:13 karlw: and why not use, say, haskell if you want haskell;? 04:06:40 (haskell was actually written in CL originally, but that's a digression innit) 04:07:01 You can take advantage of CL's flexibility to write Python-style programs. 04:07:02 Adamant: I would have to read up on it in order not to say anyting inaccurate. 04:07:11 beach: fair enough 04:07:23 karlw: but why would you? why not write lisp programs in lisp? 04:07:35 That's no fun. 04:07:57 You should write lisp programs in python for extra points. 04:08:06 karlw: cl is flexible enough to do just about anything .. but if anybody on my team ever tried to commit haskell-in-lisp code .. i'd fire them! :) 04:08:18 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 04:08:19 -!- rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 04:08:26 Zhivago: now that's a little more like it! 04:08:30 :) 04:08:37 anyone have a zune? 04:09:00 i'm not even sure why python style programming is, so maybe i'm missing something.. 04:09:11 what* 04:09:26 I'm studying math, so nobody cares (now, at least) which language I use. 04:09:31 although why might accurately represent my opinion :) 04:09:45 btw, note that in python there's a limit on how long a lambda can be 04:10:05 does python even have real closures? 04:10:16 not sure 04:10:24 i don't think so 04:10:27 Lazy lists are nicer than generators. 04:10:35 Python is following up Java to be COBOL 3.0 04:10:44 what? 04:10:54 the sooner it happens the better 04:11:56 eflynn: it's becoming the new corp language for Silicon Valley types as opposed to enterprise types, and it's starting to slowly cross over to the enterprise 04:12:19 most of the big-time Java people are pimping it now 04:12:30 Adamant, oh 04:12:39 Adamant, is that a bad or a good thing? 04:12:49 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:12:56 python sold out 04:12:57 heh 04:13:15 The only good thing about Python is my little brother can't set up his own SLIME on Windows XP. 04:13:29 good, I don't like Python that much and the sooner we get people screaming about it's defiencies and moving onto something else the better 04:13:31 actually i've seen it included as a scripting language in some commercial products 04:13:37 Python is sort of like a better Java 04:14:00 in that "everyone knows it" and can agree on it 04:14:02 Adamant, you prefer cl? 04:14:10 over Python, yup 04:14:14 i c 04:14:42 Ruby < CL < Scheme and Scheme-alikes, and Haskell, is my preference 04:15:34 I try to use Ruby a lot because thanks to RoR it's a lot more acceptable now 04:16:06 Python < Ruby 04:16:09 yes 04:16:11 I agree 04:16:30 Ruby < Smalltalk 04:16:39 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 04:16:46 Ruby was very influenced by both Scheme and Smalltalk, and if you're going to steal from someone those are the people to steal from 04:17:10 Indeed. 04:17:33 karlw: I agree in theory, but I can't use Squeak before I want to punch my monitor 04:17:43 *use Squeak long 04:18:18 I just really don't like that whole setup 04:18:23 I haven't played with this much, but look at http://smalltalk.gnu.org/ 04:18:34 I am not a big ruby fan. 04:18:57 hmm, that might be acceptable 04:19:02 argh. Mailman day again. 04:19:27 drewc: it has lots and lots of problems, but I don't think there's another language that's common in the commercial world that I'd rather use 04:19:42 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-223.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 04:20:04 karlw: thanks! 04:20:08 Adamant: sounds like a good reason to not work in the commercial world :) 04:20:24 ruby is acceptable in commerce now? 04:20:29 Squeak's IDE features are horrid, which is really sad because the ``concept'' is great. 04:20:58 drewc: somewhat less than Python 04:21:02 RoR has helped 04:21:39 python is used in commerce as well? 04:21:43 how odd 04:21:58 Squeak needs an Emacs-like IDE. 04:23:02 -!- ikki [n=ikki@189.228.229.54] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:23:16 karlw: what is wrong with the squeak IDE? I've not used it much, but Avi tells me it's the greatest thing ever, and i believe him! 04:23:17 Hopefully someone masochistic enough to use Squeak will write one. 04:23:50 from what little smalltalk i hav done, i quite liked it. 04:23:59 I like typing everything. 04:24:13 drewc: Python's been used Yahoo almost since it's inception 04:24:18 *at Yahoo 04:24:35 eventually other folks caught up 04:25:01 Adamant: The same Yahoo that didn't like the fact that Viaweb was written in Lisp, so they rewrote it (in C++?)? 04:25:13 beach: the very same 04:25:19 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.208.213] has joined #lisp 04:25:37 I think the use was a departmental thing 04:26:01 Yeah, things like that are rarely decided on a company-wide scale. 04:26:09 when i was talking to yahoo they were a php shop. 04:26:58 the guy who wrote Core Python Programming (one of the better Python books) was working at Yahoo slanging Python when he wrote the first edition 04:27:14 i did not want to work in php anymore! 04:27:29 Lisp really needs a ``batteries included'' distribution. 04:27:44 Python is many many times preferrable to PHP 04:27:47 karlw: you'd better get on that then. 04:27:48 karlw: Feel free to produce one. 04:29:09 *karlw* looks for documentation on creating Windows installers. 04:29:47 *beach* remains surprised that there are still people using Windows. 04:30:00 -!- brianj_otterZZZ [n=brianj@wsip-24-234-224-152.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [] 04:30:18 *drewc* just got a new laptop with vista 04:30:28 Sorry to hear that. 04:30:32 it will very soon be debian. 04:30:46 beach: Apple and Ubuntu have't done that good a job yet 04:31:19 what's windows? 04:31:26 drewc: You are the ideal MS customer then. You pay for their stuff, but don't use it. 04:32:13 beach: indeed.. although i'm sure i'll sell the license to one of my clients, so i'm not really out-of-pocket :) 04:32:14 microsoft must be the new netflix 04:32:22 Even the Ubuntu kernel doesn't support the wireless card on my new Laptop. 04:32:33 *laptop 04:32:38 seriously, what the heck is windows? are you talking about glass panes or something else or am i just stupid? 04:33:03 you're just stupid, I guess 04:33:04 The Mark of the Beast. 04:33:13 lulz 04:33:29 LOLWUT 04:33:38 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:33:38 is that you, anon? 04:33:53 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:34:33 -!- qen` [n=unknown@84.92.70.37] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:34:36 An installer could have up-to-date CLISP and Emacs 22 for Windows with SLIME. 04:35:05 sounds like an updated version of lisp in a box. I figured you had something more ambitious in mind, though. 04:35:18 Or Eclipse with CUSP. 04:36:09 i'm not sure that clisp-in-a-box really matters that much. what you need is legions of programmers advocating it, or a killer app 04:36:31 why? 04:36:42 Ok I'm back. 04:36:43 *hefner* is not sure that windows matters all that much 04:37:02 if i were lisping on windows .. i'd use lispworks FFS 04:37:40 people who want to use free software on windows are a bit odd IMO. 04:37:56 i just don't get it! :) 04:39:00 I want to use the free software on windows. 04:39:18 Actually I'd just like the software I do use on windows to run on something else. Hrrm. Nevermind. 04:39:41 like, say wine, vmware, virtualbox, etc etc etc? 04:39:54 Hrmm.. 04:39:57 this is not a hard problem to solve 04:40:21 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:40:26 Seems a bit of a waste to install linux + vmware or what not just to run windows on it.. Still the license cost. 04:40:37 And no real gain :) 04:42:27 no gain? sbcl + slime + emacs on the platform they were made for seems like a gain to me. 04:42:55 Not a gain for me at where I work now, no. 04:43:30 Perhaps if I actually got paid to hack the common lisp ;) 04:44:02 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:44:41 well . i'd offer you a job, but i don't take windows-using developers ;) 04:44:49 Hahaha. 04:45:18 No see I work with autocad. And I'd love to have it running on anything but windows. Somehow it annoys me having to sit at a windows box. 04:45:34 I know it is not very grown up of me to dislike windows for no real reason, but it just bugs me. 04:45:47 I see no real gain from running it all on top of vmware on linux though :) 04:45:58 to be cool (tm) 04:46:15 Yes yes, the coolness of it, of course ;) 04:46:37 schme_: you are way too pragmatic.. this is #lisp after all :) 04:46:47 *schme_* googles pragmatic. 04:47:24 aaah. 04:47:25 Yes. 04:47:49 "Dealing or concerned with facts or actual occurrences; practical." 04:48:12 ": relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters" :) 04:49:10 Also I fear that running it all through some virtual machine on top of linux would interfere with the spacepilot. 04:49:17 But ya it's all good. 04:49:36 yeah, in your case i don't think i'd recommend a linux box :) 04:50:03 wait .. is there an OSX port of autocad? I can't imagine there wouldn't be, 04:50:45 seems like it should run on IRIX too now that i give it some thought .. i check teh google 04:51:11 Hmmm.. perhaps. 04:51:46 Most programmers in general use Windows (I've been sheltered at Berkeley where even English majors use Ubuntu). 04:52:11 Yes. It's a bit weird. 04:52:34 dysinger [n=tim@166.129.34.242] has joined #lisp 04:52:42 karlw: lulz, really? that's an interesting sight 04:53:08 i must exist in an odd corner of the IT world, as almost none of the programmers i know use windows. 04:53:16 drewc: I actually think it is Win XP / Vista only. 04:53:28 A girl in my writing class uses OOo 04:53:50 karlw: teach her latex if she doesn't already know it 04:53:56 oh. 04:54:00 girl and latex. 04:54:05 windows programmers really don't count 04:54:06 ;) 04:54:11 heh. 04:54:25 half of them are probably still waiting for visual studio to install 04:54:38 (or start) 04:55:27 schme_: well, it certainly used to run on IRIX :) 04:55:57 Well, doesn't elitism prevent Lisp from gaining acceptance? 04:55:58 (for instance, I once took a class having a group programming project, with four people - two linux users, two windows users - but the two linux users wrote all of the code.) 04:56:04 Used to.. before the cost of developing it for it became less than the profit of selling it, I suppose :) 04:56:56 I kinda like the elitism. 04:57:02 (in general I mean) 04:57:58 it could be worse 04:58:33 karlw: i've accepted lisp .. so no. 04:58:55 Ya. 04:58:57 You need to compromise between your lust for recognition and influence and actually getting people to take you seriously. 04:59:22 why? 04:59:27 I think it is more that people start yelling ELITISM! as soon as one gives someone a health rtfm. 04:59:31 healthy 04:59:33 what lust for recognition is this? 04:59:54 karlw: have you by chance been reading Graham? :) 05:00:10 yes 05:00:45 the elitism is stupid 05:00:45 and do you think his ideas are representive of those who actually use lisp, and CL in particular? 05:01:05 what elitism is this? PG again? 05:01:17 drewc: no, c.l.l 05:01:26 What is c.l.l ? 05:01:35 comp.lang.lisp 05:01:38 schme_: comp.lang.lisp 05:01:40 Hmm.. 05:01:43 I will look that up. 05:01:51 it's full of intelligent reasonable people, and also full of utter clownshoes 05:02:00 Oh fun. 05:02:04 Adamant: it's usenet .. what else is new? 05:02:23 Not really, I've also read SICP. I learned to program with Simply Scheme by Harvey and Wright. 05:02:25 I thought the elitism was more the general accusation of stuff being elitist because people got told to rtfm :) 05:02:26 in fact .. #lisp is supposed to be even worse. 05:03:34 drewc: according to who? 05:03:40 #lisp is quite alright 05:04:07 people who have embarrassed themselves on #lisp frequently accuse it of being elitist 05:04:08 I mean the ``only smart people use Lisp'' mindset. 05:04:15 karlw: many (most?) lispers i know, which is a hell of a lot, thing PG is a bit of an ass.. he certainly is not a member of the CL 'community' as such. 05:04:42 think 05:05:14 Well, he's a ``public face'' unfortunately. 05:05:15 drewc: maybe most lispers you know follow the elitist #lisp anti-PG party line 05:05:26 karlw: how so? 05:05:38 he doesn't use CL, doesn't like CL .... 05:05:52 wrote a book on how to make CL more like scheme .. 05:06:36 hefner: fair enough. 05:06:39 http://www.secretgeek.net/lisp_truth.asp 05:07:07 I like Scheme. 05:07:43 me too 05:08:20 i like the korn shell. 05:10:28 karlw: none of the internet soap opera surrounding lisp has ever stopped me from getting programs written. 05:10:35 O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 05:10:53 except when i'm busy participating in it, i suppose :) 05:11:37 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:13:36 ``Headline: everyone hates Paul Graham'' 05:14:08 hahaha. 05:15:01 Who says only smart people use lisp though? 05:15:55 no one 05:17:29 I like Lisp because it's more enjoyable to program in than Haskell. 05:17:51 karlw: that's the spirit! 05:19:05 So, companies must be drooling to hire people like me. 05:19:11 i like lisp because there are several high quality implementations, a standard, and is a tolerable programming environment, 05:19:48 happy new year 05:20:10 eflynn: EST? :) 05:20:24 drewc, yea 05:20:32 *karlw* yawnz 05:20:43 eflynn: well, happy new year :) 05:21:13 *drewc* is still 2:40 away from 2009 05:21:17 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1F343.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:22:02 segv [n=mb@p4FC1CE20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:04 welcome to a dead zune 05:22:27 i thought that was pretty funny 05:22:42 awesome, the year starts on a high note 05:22:43 all the zunes hang at the same time 05:22:47 *schme_* does not get it. 05:23:03 eflynn: i got a good chuckle out of that myself 05:23:14 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.208.213] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 05:23:36 imagine if that happened to your cell phone 05:23:57 you couldn't even drunk dial 05:24:06 ?? 05:24:11 What is supposed to happen? 05:24:32 schme_, your gadget hangs because it doesn't understand leap years 05:24:42 :) 05:24:43 oh um. 05:25:03 schme_: the 30gb MS zunes all crapped out at midnight last night apparently. 05:25:16 Sweet. 05:25:21 midnight PST of course 05:25:34 i thought it was gmt? 05:25:57 and you know what the official resolution is? 05:26:41 buy an ipod 05:26:43 let your zune run off the battery, and wait until after noon gmt jan 1st and charge it 05:28:12 drewc, yeah that works too 05:28:27 buy an OGG player 05:29:21 I'd love it to be able to play ogg on my mp3player. 05:29:51 i think those exist 05:30:05 Sure. You can do it on the ipods. 05:30:13 schme_, orly? 05:30:21 I just don't feel the need to buy a new one just to spare me the conversion. 05:30:24 eflynn: Yup. rockbox it. 05:30:42 schme_, does it work on ipod shuffle? 05:30:49 No idea. 05:31:15 apparently not 05:31:33 i used to have a 3rd gen ipod 05:32:05 I had one of those with a screen and video and all. 05:32:07 It kinda broke 05:32:35 fix it 05:32:40 with lisp 05:33:43 eflynn: I don't have the knowhow. 05:34:13 -!- dysinger [n=tim@166.129.34.242] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:34:55 I got my sister a 2GB video/mp3/whatever player for like $20 on sale at Fry's, and I'm pretty sure it plays .ogg and such as well 05:34:57 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:08 nice :) 05:35:27 amazing how cheap they come 05:35:54 I bought a shuffle years back because it was supposed to have better audio quality than the alternatives, but what a royal pain in my donkey 05:36:04 I used to have a Cowon iAudio. 05:36:12 i have the new shuffle 05:36:18 the cheap ones are just a USB storage device, copy stuff onto it and you're done 05:36:26 much easier 05:36:59 Phoodus, what model was that? 05:37:17 idunno, some off-brand 05:38:27 Get one with front-end software written in Lisp. 05:39:08 and a CLIM display 05:41:08 One with a self-hosting UNIX kernel written in CL and full POSIX API written in CL. 05:42:08 what a wicked idea 05:42:10 Like the C compiler for Lisp machines, :-) 05:43:40 any media player without a REPL interface sucks 05:43:57 I really just want it to play my audio stuff, and have it easily accessible. 05:44:05 So creative zen works just fine. 05:46:32 ugh, tired, good night 05:47:27 -!- karlw [n=user@cpe-76-168-206-252.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:49:26 balls 05:50:50 -!- eflynn [n=evan@65-183-142-159-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has left #lisp 05:52:17 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E45EAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:47 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:58:03 benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:00:13 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.128.35] has joined #lisp 06:01:52 -!- rcy [n=rcy@S01060002553240a8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:07:16 -!- seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E44A07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:21:17 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:22:03 beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has joined #lisp 06:22:09 Good afternoon. 06:31:11 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 06:31:12 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:34:32 Beket [n=Beket@athedsl-431182.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:36:27 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:01 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.225.159] has joined #lisp 07:04:42 It seems safe now to say: Happy New Year #lisp. :-) 07:07:30 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-27-103.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:08:06 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-20-196.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:08:44 A bit late maybe. 07:10:36 Is it 2010 already? 07:11:04 No but new years was 8 hrs ago. 07:11:33 But happy new year anyway :) 07:11:57 It was 12 and a half hours ago here. I just waited to be sure everyone was in. :-) 07:13:01 I'm sorry. It is just past 8 am. Your clock is wrong :( 07:13:27 Riiiight. 07:13:50 Yes, Ihave been awake for way too long. :D 07:14:34 Ah, you're up at 8 AM because you were up through the night rather than because you woke up early? 07:14:45 Indeed. 07:14:46 Sounds, uh, exciting. 07:14:53 No, tooth ache and bad cold ;) 07:15:12 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:15:12 Well that's no way to bring in the new year. If I were you I'd demand a refund. 07:15:23 hehehe :) 07:17:40 appletizer [i=a@82-32-123-68.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:19:13 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:19:44 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:19:48 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 07:25:15 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:22 benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:38:44 -!- appletizer [i=a@82-32-123-68.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:41:58 -!- Jimi___Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@c-98-221-29-216.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:52:19 antoni [n=antoni@27.Red-79-153-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:37 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm247.sigma228.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:10:16 fooquux_ [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:07 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 08:12:32 -!- anekos is now known as awayekos 08:14:30 -!- dankna [n=d@ool-43516bc9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:14:47 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.212.227] has joined #lisp 08:14:55 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.212.227] has quit [Client Quit] 08:19:07 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:20:07 lenst [n=user@217.213.172.167] has joined #lisp 08:20:41 Grilinctus [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.151] has joined #lisp 08:22:14 jso [n=user@host-154-148-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:10 shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has joined #lisp 08:23:17 Anyone know where I can get documentation on CMU CL's XLIB functions? In particular, I'm currently trying to find an equivalent to xlib-gl:make-xevent. 08:24:11 Hmm, clx is well documented -- try googling for it. 08:24:40 Its not in CLX. 08:24:50 At least not a current one. 08:25:05 http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~unk6/clxman/ 08:25:19 bit` [n=bit@c-67-171-211-187.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:53 What are you trying to do? Send an event? 08:26:38 I'm trying to get the OpenGL Backend to McCLIM working under SBCL. :D 08:26:46 Yay! Finished all the digits! 08:27:16 too vague 08:28:39 Honestly, I'm not exactly sure as of yet what this is supposed to do. I was hoping to get the documentation to the original function and get it from there. 08:29:05 So you're looking for the documentation for xlib-gl:make-xevent? 08:29:14 The file I'm currently working on is opengl-port.lisp in Backends/OpenGL. 08:29:15 Yes. 08:29:38 I've seen other code on the net use it as well. 08:31:08 -!- fooquux_ is now known as fooquux 08:32:14 Heh, anyone else experiencing some weirdness with google? I get size 40 font on the message that some results were omitted. Its pretty humorous. 08:32:38 Does it show a link that tells you that you can opt out of an experiment? 08:33:01 Nope. 08:33:15 Looks normal to me. 08:33:29 Hmm. Funny stuff. Oh well. 08:33:34 Then that's a bit odd -- if you were in an experiment it would make sense 08:33:57 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 08:33:57 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=xlib-gl+cmucl&btnG=Search is what does it for me. 08:34:32 Looks fine to me -- does it survive reloading the page? 08:34:48 hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has joined #lisp 08:34:51 suppse I have (foo ... (bar ...) ); where foo & bar are both amcros, does the standard define which expands first? these macros are defined with def-macro 08:34:55 Yeah. I guess it is loval. 08:34:58 local. 08:35:10 hml: foo 08:35:29 -!- antoni [n=antoni@27.Red-79-153-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:36:07 hml: Think of it like this -- context interprets content. 08:36:38 hml: (foo ...) <- foo is the context for the ... content. 08:38:12 -!- aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:38:14 got it; thanks 08:38:27 so in theory, macros can completely fuck up the meaning of anything inside them 08:38:36 hml: Yes. 08:38:52 which actually comes in handy sometimes 08:39:00 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.163.225.159] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:39:23 suppose, hypothetically, i'm building a compiler, and it's reasoned certain things about functions foo & bar; but in the case of (some-macro ... (foo ...) ... (bar ...)) i need to throw that analysis away until I figure out what some-macro does? 08:39:58 hml: (defmacro foo (&rest rest)) then your (foo (bar (baz (whatever you want) little pink unicorns))) gets "fucked up" ;) 08:40:42 this is awesome; thanks! 08:40:44 hml: Maybe you could have macroexpand time. 08:41:01 and seperate it from compile time. Just an idea. Dunno how that would work in practice. 08:41:23 nah, i'm writing a (gasp) scheme interpreter that allows macros to be created & applied at run time, just like functions 08:41:44 I see. 08:41:53 but it's going to have listp style macros 08:42:04 i like def-macro much more than syntax-rules 08:42:46 It's defmacro. 08:43:56 hml: It'd be interesting to see how that all works out. 08:44:32 hml: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ababb.htm 08:45:26 hml: it's not the job of the compiler to know anything about what's inside the macro form. 08:46:28 hml: it's the macro that tells the compiler what to compile, returning it. The macro does whatever it wants with its arguments. 08:52:22 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:54:24 antoni [n=antoni@27.Red-79-153-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:54 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:56:02 -!- dmiles_afk [i=dmiles@c-24-16-246-158.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:59:24 -!- Beket [n=Beket@athedsl-431182.home.otenet.gr] has quit [] 08:59:24 H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-064-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:33 dmiles_afk [i=dmiles@c-24-16-246-158.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:23 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has left #lisp 09:19:14 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.128.35] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:23:57 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 09:40:23 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 09:43:10 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:44:03 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 09:48:57 -!- lenst [n=user@217.213.172.167] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:05:41 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:09:08 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.212.227] has joined #lisp 10:10:11 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 10:11:11 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.212.227] has quit [Client Quit] 10:17:40 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.222.129] has joined #lisp 10:17:46 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.222.129] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:23:21 -!- hml [n=x@unaffiliated/hml] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:29:22 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has left #lisp 10:35:06 Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-126-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:14 -!- randomwalker [n=me@cpe-70-116-29-132.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:59 -!- antoni [n=antoni@27.Red-79-153-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:43:54 ^authentic [n=authenti@85-127-181-36.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:43:55 -!- H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-064-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:44:48 H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:53 lenst [n=user@host-90-234-1-10.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:46 -!- jso [n=user@host-154-148-107-208.midco.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:58:28 -!- lenst [n=user@host-90-234-1-10.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:58:46 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:59:02 -!- authentic [n=authenti@unaffiliated/authentic] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:59:14 -!- ^authentic is now known as authentic 10:59:45 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.251.200] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:10:58 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:11:31 nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:22 antoni [n=antoni@27.Red-79-153-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:11 gaja [n=Gabriel@c-0689e555.017-40-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:20:41 schasi [n=schasi@p54A27BC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:47 -!- spec[afk] is now known as mrSpec 11:23:00 Hey! Happy New Year ;) 11:29:16 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.222.129] has joined #lisp 11:29:27 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.222.129] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:30:12 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.222.129] has joined #lisp 11:30:13 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.222.129] has quit [Client Quit] 11:31:05 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.222.129] has joined #lisp 11:34:36 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:00 *fusss* can't wait for the normal, boring, non-holly days to start :-) 11:35:34 fusss, start coding ? 11:36:05 never stopped coding 11:36:21 hehe :) 11:47:31 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1"] 11:47:33 Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-431182.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:48:57 fusss: I don't really mind it on irc. In real life it becomes boring more quickly 11:50:30 Hi people. Why doesn't this work ? (make-array 5 :fill-pointer 10 :adjustable t) Since array is resizable, why is it a problem if the fill-pointer is greate than it's initial size? Or is it perhaps because the array becomes rezisable _after_ it has been instantiated? 11:51:15 ooh, you happened to try that just a little to late. That function isn't y2k9 compliant 11:51:16 Beket: isn't the size the maximal size of that array? 11:51:40 Phoodus: microsoft used lisp in the zune then?! 11:52:15 (make-array 'zune-year...) 11:53:55 beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has joined #lisp 11:53:59 Good evening. 11:54:25 clhs make-array 11:54:32 good evening beach, sadly I just woke 11:54:46 Beket: The argument of :fill-pointer is a /valid fill pointer/ 11:54:57 Beket: You can then look that term up in the Glossary 11:56:14 Beket: A fill pointer is basically a marker up to which all elements are active. How can non-existing elements be active? 11:56:28 tcr: god! 11:56:38 -!- mrSpec [n=NoOne@82.177.125.6] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:57:29 Thanks tcr 11:57:49 schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:58:09 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:58:21 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:59:21 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:27 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2646.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:06:35 hi 12:06:47 first, sorry if I don't answer, family lunch, etc. 12:07:02 I was trying to learn Emacs/SLIME (I use vim for years) 12:07:14 found a nice learning video, slime.mov 12:07:27 but on google video it's awfully encoded, and unreadable 12:07:36 the origin website is down 12:07:43 so I found it on an internet archive 12:07:57 reencoded it with x264 12:08:09 so now it's smaller (84MB instead of 150MB) and seekable 12:08:18 I don't have the bandwidth to host it 12:08:18 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08:23 http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov here is original 12:08:30 but I somebody can put it somewhere... 12:08:43 oh nice 12:08:49 doesn't youtube have ?fmt= options to be able to play in high/original res? 12:08:55 but it's big, and unseekable (raw avi stream) 12:09:19 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:21 it is in a mov container, i think 12:09:36 If somebody prefer a seekable 82MB (not 84 sorry) file.... 12:09:42 Seeking in the common-lisp.net version works fine for me. 12:10:01 galdor: Also check out: http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/slime-talk-2008.pdf 12:10:08 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 12:10:09 perhaps I've got another version 12:10:09 (Unless I'm not meaning the same thing as you with 'seekable') 12:10:24 Maddas: I mean, move at random position in the video 12:10:46 That works here. 12:10:49 tcr: ahh, very nice, thx 12:11:15 Maddas: e43248e1d795aa21c8b6ce7676d58b28e0447d12 slime.mov 12:11:20 (sha1) 12:11:28 it's a high resolution version 12:11:32 don't know if it's the same 12:12:16 I didn't download the entire thing, but seeking in the one on the website works :-) 12:13:12 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:13:19 gonna download it, see if it's the same 12:13:46 anyway, 82MB is better for the bandwidth, nope ? (seems I encoded for nothing :p) 12:13:59 Oh, sure, I'm not saying your version isn't better. 12:14:20 don't worry that's not important 12:14:26 now that I can learn slime 12:14:27 :-) 12:14:50 it's very difficult for me to use emacs, since I'm a hardcore vim user 12:15:03 not having edition modes is very disturbing 12:15:45 heh, I end up with ':w's in my text every now and then 12:16:15 yep, and move commands too (2dw.. ouups) 12:16:33 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 12:16:44 but I tried several lisp plugins for vim, and I can't stand them, so... 12:16:57 I use viper mode for vi keybindings in Emacs. 12:17:04 last one of the raytraced bunnies series: big: http://rapidshare.com/files/178688827/bunnies.avi.html and small http://rapidshare.com/files/178688827/bunnies.avi.html it's the same raytrace but the details can be seen better on the big version. The stills are best, but I can't seem to find a video-codec that doesn't eliminate the detail 12:17:08 *Maddas* quite likes Viper mode. 12:17:20 Maddas, I may need to try those out.. 12:17:50 tcr: should clbuild load slime-indent? 12:17:51 Maddas: last time I looked Viper, I was a bit disappointed 12:17:54 hi 12:18:03 I used my vim skills, worked for the small things, not the others 12:18:11 so I prefer to learn the emacs way 12:18:20 galdor: YMMV :-) I can't say I was an expert vim user, I'm mainly glad for the basic commands and for navigation/insert mode. 12:18:33 Yeah, it's easier to try it once you're familiar with basic Emacs usage. 12:19:31 time to get back to the table for a bit of socialization 12:19:54 (I've got a small bit of code which makes it behave a bit better with various Emacs modes, in case you use it, I can paste that) 12:20:21 a have a problem with an elisp function. (backward-char) hangs it. Any idea? 12:20:24 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:20:24 lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:21:23 antoni: In general, you're better off asking elisp questions in #emacs (unless it's really specific to something like Slime). 12:21:54 thanks 12:22:02 No worries. 12:28:51 -!- nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:29:53 nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:17 lichtblau: It should load slime-fancy, and slime-asdf. 12:32:32 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:33:11 Okay. I just read your slime talk, and got the impression that LOOP is minindented unless I load that contrib. What reason could there be for not loading it? 12:35:07 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:17 lichtblau: I don't know of many people who use it. So it# 12:35:24 And from slime-devel I'm getting the impression that we shouldn't hard-code the contrib list at all. Too bad Xach isn't here to explain why. 12:35:45 So it's not really under maintenance. 12:36:55 lichtblau: Splitting into contribs is not done for modularization purpose (that's what most people don't see) 12:37:14 it's done to distinguish between code that heller wants to maintain, and code that he does not necessarily want to maintain 12:37:46 so contribs are free to bitrot 12:38:54 slime-fancy and slime-asdf is what I use, and most people. So it's most likely to be maintained properly. 12:39:10 thanks for explaining. That makes sense. 12:39:44 slime-indent is used by the people at ITA, so it is maintained. But their version is not really synchronized with upstreams slime. 12:40:21 davazp [n=user@158.Red-88-8-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:44 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:44:58 lichtblau: but see my posting I just sent 12:46:21 H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:49 Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslc-082-082-045-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:26 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:54:13 H4ns2 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:19 -!- Jabberwockey [n=jens@dslb-082-083-126-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:56:41 -!- Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-431182.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:01:33 -!- H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:07:59 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:08:08 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:12:43 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:43 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:16:05 H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:08 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:18 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4d4a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:35 -!- H4ns2 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:24:03 benny [n=benny@i577A2095.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:24 chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B207.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:25:46 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:17 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34:01 -!- awayekos is now known as anekos 13:34:05 user___ [n=user@p54927DB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:30 lenst [n=user@host-90-234-29-130.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:14 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:55:06 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4cd4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:48 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:58:17 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 13:59:53 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:00:49 H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:12 -!- user___ [n=user@p54927DB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:05:46 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-118.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:06:07 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:11 Dextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 14:08:23 Are there any examples on how to use usocket? So far I've only found a paste bit on a simple client. 14:09:42 i find it rather straightforward, connect, use stream 14:11:10 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:11:18 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.184] has joined #lisp 14:12:05 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4d4a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:10 -!- antoni [n=antoni@27.Red-79-153-207.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:15:06 Dazhbog [n=sampo@geek.fi] has joined #lisp 14:16:16 something seems to be getting out of sync.. when I compile-and-load my file, the compiler notes buffer pops up showing 3 style warnings, but at the slime repl it shows 2 fatal errors and 1 style warning 14:16:29 Is there a Lisp-compiler which is able to use SIMD-instructions (vector/matrix -operations) on x86-hardware? 14:17:52 -!- H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:18:09 Well, I'd like to have a server that listen for connections, how do I go about doing such a thing? 14:20:24 Dazhbog: There has been efforts to make sbcl do so. I don't think the efforts got merged. 14:21:02 magnus__: call socket-listen, then pass the result to socket-accept which will hang until someone makes a connection 14:23:02 koning_robot: Ah thanks :) 14:23:03 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 14:23:34 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-51-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:23:38 caliostro [n=caliostr@host-84-222-140-135.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:23:49 tcr: hmm that's a shame 14:24:53 Dazhbog: http://common-lisp.net/project/sb-simd/ 14:25:18 tcr: thanks 14:28:45 dankna [n=d@ool-43516bc9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:27 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.135.184] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:37:03 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:39:35 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:40:55 user___ [n=user@p54927DB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:56 hmm... now I killed the compiler notes buffer, tried to recompile, and it says 0 errors, 0 warnings, 0 notes. I guess debian testing's sbcl is too old (1.0.18)? 14:43:11 fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:56 H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-065-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:48 Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-34-61.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:50:46 tcr, sent you the new diff 14:52:33 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:57:25 robyonrails [n=roby@host181-178-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:58:05 koning_robot: the whole debian testing is in "stale" condition.. 14:59:15 the same sbcl version is in the unstable 15:00:33 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:05:25 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:10:46 Hmm, I have managed to have create dangling tcp connections with usocket. Is there a way to look for previously created sockets? Or to kill the old ones? 15:12:07 what exactly do you mean by dangling? 15:14:26 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:26 syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 Dangling as in, I cannot close the connection it appears. 15:15:02 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:52 Or access it in any way, since I did not bind the sockets to any var, silly me. I was being careless and did not use unwind-protect to ensure closing the socket. 15:16:38 dys` [n=andreas@p5B315C8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:59 maybe you can look up the file descriptors with lsof and then close them 15:17:11 though there's probably an easier way to do it 15:18:08 t will time out at some point 15:19:24 -!- lenst [n=user@host-90-234-29-130.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:20:00 Ok thanks 15:21:15 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 15:21:57 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #lisp 15:22:20 -!- dys [n=andreas@p5B315808.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:24:11 no, i didn't :( 15:24:38 better ask some elisp wizards 15:26:07 -!- kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:26:29 kleppari [n=spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 15:26:41 weirdo: That looks much better. 15:27:59 Jimi__Hendrix [n=Jimi__He@c-98-221-29-216.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:25 vy [n=user@88.229.210.40] has joined #lisp 15:31:50 nyef [n=nyef@64.222.164.52] has joined #lisp 15:33:36 magnus__: is this on sbcl? 15:33:38 so i fixed the erc bug that prevented pasting of overlayed (i.e. presentation) stuff 15:34:47 sbcl doesn't automatically close connections, that's why you see an unwind-protect in every #+sbcl section of socket code 15:35:36 "Doesn't automatically close connections"? 15:36:13 And, honestly, unwind-protect? Is there a problem with WITH-OPEN-STREAM? 15:38:32 tcr, so i see terminating symbols were implemented properly :) 15:38:41 tisshy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has joined #lisp 15:40:59 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:08 hi, im trying to create an associative list on clisp. I define it, (defparameter x '((1 1) . x) ((2 2) . y))). Therefore, (assoc '(1 1) x) should return ((1 1) . x) but it does not, what is wrong? 15:41:10 I didn't look closely at it yet. It's just that it's now in a form to be looked closely yet. :) 15:42:05 -!- vy [n=user@88.229.210.40] has left #lisp 15:42:23 you're only quoting ((1 1) . x), the ((2 2) . y) is hanging off the end 15:42:28 they should both be part of 1 list 15:42:43 Umm... What? 15:42:51 tisshy: you have to pass :test #'equal to ASSOC 15:43:07 See, -that's- the right answer. 15:43:13 you need an extra set of parens: '(((1 1) . x) ((2 2) . y))) 15:43:19 Well, the first right answer. 15:43:22 hmm 15:43:30 let me give it a try 15:44:01 i've tried to add extra parenthesis but it didnt work 15:44:08 Phoodus: Note the extra close-paren on the defparameter form. 15:44:28 tisshy: it is dangerous naming a special variable without the stars. 15:44:36 tcr: doesnt assoc already tests for equality? 15:44:42 yes its just for testing now 15:44:49 there are different types of equality 15:44:51 tisshy: it depends on what you mean by equality 15:44:51 tisshy: The default test is for EQLity, not EQUALity. 15:44:53 (defparameter *x* '(((1 1) . x) ((2 2) . y))) (assoc '(1 1) *x* :test (function equal)) 15:45:00 #'equal does deep list comparisons 15:45:23 (Hence "Equal rights, and wrongs".) 15:45:31 ah right :/ 15:45:38 many thanks pjb :D i love u 15:45:59 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:30 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-71-193-68-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:39 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:47:17 magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has joined #lisp 15:47:32 fusss_: Yeah on sbcl 15:47:55 fusss_: I ended up restarting sbcl, Got rid of the connections. 15:49:57 nyef: Right, with-open-stream. Totally forgot about that one for a while. 15:50:08 magnus__: You know, if those connections were file descriptors, you -could- have just run lsof to find their fds and then issued sb-unix:unix-close on them. >:-) 15:50:53 nyef: That's the answer I was looking for. hehe 'Cus I am sure I will screw up more with this. hehe 15:50:55 lsof shows also tcp connections. 15:51:32 Right, the only problem is that SBCL also installs finalizers for most open stream/socket types. 15:51:53 So with-open-stream all the way then. :) 15:51:56 -!- user___ [n=user@p54927DB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:51:57 If they get collected while their underlying descriptor is closed or in use by another stream... 15:53:07 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host181-178-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 15:53:09 Chaos will knock on my lisp image? ;) 15:53:45 Something like that. 15:56:56 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 15:57:30 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-4-64.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:00 ... I'm finding the sbcl bug tracker to be annoying today. Where the hell is the "chart" functionality? Or the summary of open bugs by importance? 15:58:15 remember how i was bitching about being unable to deal with the complexity of stateless web applications? well, the theory weenie in me googled "finite state machine AND web application" and I found formalism-crutch i needed to make sense of things :-) 15:59:21 Ah, have the current state derivable from the input as part of each request? 15:59:41 srolls [n=srolls@c-24-23-197-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 nyef: "List all open Bugs" 16:01:06 tcr: Okay, and where does this tell me NNN High-Importance bugs, MMM Medium-Importance bugs, LLL Low-Importance bugs and KKK Wishlist items? 16:02:57 I don't know. How is that information useful? 16:02:57 -!- srolls [n=srolls@c-24-23-197-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:03:24 nyef: yep. using cookies, server-side sessions and url-rewriting. will just need to prototype and test things like crazy. i really should overcome my fear/hate of "ad hoc" solutions. 16:03:45 fusss_: Ah, but ad-hoc solutions are -fun-. 16:04:05 so i'm going to limit public access to my service by means of registration-through-prime-factorization. which integer size do you recommend? 16:04:12 fusss_: There're a thousands security holes luring in all this! 16:04:30 decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.176.53] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 tcr, in cookies and server-side sessions? 16:05:40 just only allow changing stuff through POST 16:06:35 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 16:07:00 fusss_: I keep state by having cgi scripts pass requests through to an always-running process, wherein each session has its own thread and a stream to/from which it just reads and writes requests and responses 16:07:22 koning_robot: sounds expensive! 16:07:34 probably is 16:07:48 -!- Grilinctus is now known as Aankhen`` 16:17:17 ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6278.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:28 *nyef* wonders why "backtrace" doesn't imply "debugger". 16:20:39 OT: is it just me or are the comments section on this site broken on three browsers? tested IE, FFX and opera. http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-5034222.html 16:25:33 koning_robot, nice idea. so when the session isn't active, it blocks on a semaphore waiting for a response again? 16:25:53 shouldn't be *too* expensive 16:26:13 but it depends whether all clients use it like that or only logged in registered users 16:27:35 it sounds fast, but at 1MB per thread, it quickly becomes insane on the required memory 16:28:02 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-51-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.14/2008120416]"] 16:30:42 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-225-218.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 16:34:57 -!- caliostro [n=caliostr@host-84-222-140-135.cust-adsl.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 16:35:04 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:38:35 jollygood [n=jollygoo@pool-72-65-153-129.chrlwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:06 magnus__ pasted "usockets" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72903 16:42:10 Damn it. This is really annoying. I can't grasp this usocket. :( I must be really thick headed tonight. I am sure there's something really stupid I am missing. 16:43:12 -!- fusss_ [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:45:29 H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-065-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:52 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 16:46:53 magnus: you don't pass a stream to `with-open-stream' 16:47:40 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-065-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:35 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 16:49:06 okay, i'm trying to map my current system admin mental images to lisp concepts 16:49:15 i have slime installed and emacs configured and can invoke slime 16:49:21 -!- H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-065-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:49:31 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-225-218.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:49:34 i get that slime is a kind of interactive shell like bash or clisp or sbcl but with lots of other power 16:49:55 i get the concept of entering lisp functions and having them evaluated in real time like bash 16:50:19 how does the workflow work here ... say i wanted to write a lisp prgoram (my mind is thinking bash script equivalent of some sort) 16:50:19 -!- shmho [n=user@58.142.15.103] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:50:32 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 16:51:35 that did some stuff with files (some decent info out there on this) ... how does one create a 'file / program' and modify/iterate through it as it grows? normally id just use emacs for a bash script to write code to a file and in anotehr tab execute it to test ... how does this work in the slime/emacs environment? 16:51:47 -!- Jimi__Hendrix is now known as jimi_hendrix 16:52:15 divinebovine: you open a file (or use the slime scratch-buffer) and write your code.. then you can evaluate expressions by using `C-M-x'.. if you use a file, you can compile and load the whole file using `C-c C-k'.. there are more useful bindings, of course, but these are the main ones I use 16:55:28 divinebovine, as in an interactive bash session, you can define functions and variables (either via evaluating stuff in your files or typing them in the REPL) 16:55:37 e.g., you can write a function and evaluate it (`C-M-x'), then test in the REPL, change and re-evaluate while not satisfied, then move on to the next piece 16:57:53 aha 16:58:30 so, i can split the emacs window into two say, on left i'm editing a normal text file in emacs on the right i load up a slime buffer to test expressions as i go along 16:58:44 yes.. `C-3' does that 16:59:01 erm.. `C-c 3' 16:59:13 then from the cl-user prompt, i need to learn how to load up the lisp files and compile and run them to test 16:59:16 aha 16:59:46 fuck me, now i understand the 'emacs is an os that just needs a good text editor' joke 16:59:55 :) 17:00:20 isn't it C-x-3? 17:00:35 c-x-2 vertically 17:00:36 yes, `C-x 3'.. :/ 17:00:48 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 Hello mgr. 17:01:02 wol [n=wol@c-24-4-220-163.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:04 okay thanks for the explanation 17:01:18 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.76.82] has joined #lisp 17:01:25 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:01:33 divinebovine, while you can load lisp files from the repl, it's probably more convenient to use slime's bindings to evaluate the files you already have in your buffers 17:02:09 adeht: Ok so I need to do ... (listener (usocket:socket-stream (usocket:socket-listen ...))). But, I need to have a socket when connecting in the let right? And then I again need to use a stream, right? Hmm 17:02:10 clhs load 17:03:18 magnus: so you have a `let' for the socket, then `with-open-stream' for the stream 17:04:30 vasa [n=vasa@mm-54-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 17:05:30 chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.162.15.253] has joined #lisp 17:06:41 joga: ohhhh... 17:06:44 right 17:06:59 co cmx ccck ... right 17:07:06 magnus: but why don't you use `with-server-socket'? 17:07:22 or even `with-socket-listener'? 17:07:40 that should make it easier to do someo f these tutorials out there 17:07:41 danke 17:08:45 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@c-75-68-104-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:15:29 adeht: Oh! Undocumented macros. Nice thanks. :) 17:19:21 when i do a C-c C-k and the compiler notes comes up with the collapseable warnings ... how do i exit that and get the regular slime interactive interface? 17:19:27 it looks like its waiting for me to do something 17:19:34 q 17:19:38 danke 17:23:35 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 17:25:04 antoni [n=antoni@174.pool85-53-10.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 17:25:34 -!- tisshy [n=ishtus@91.184.220.239] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:29:29 divinebovine: `C- h t' will bring you to the Emacs tutorial. 17:30:01 divinebovine: You can then read through the Slime manual (in the doc/ directory in your Slime source dir) 17:30:15 You can then watch segv's slime movie 17:30:42 aha 17:30:44 great! 17:30:49 divinebovine: And then read through http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/slime-talk-2008.pdf 17:32:11 bookmarked 17:32:12 great 17:35:05 bertm [i=04f5aaa2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2d6ce4257d1ab611] has joined #lisp 17:35:40 enodran [n=brandon@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:04 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:36 -!- bertm [i=04f5aaa2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2d6ce4257d1ab611] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 17:42:53 lenst [n=user@host-217-213-143-177.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:08 -!- chaitanya [n=chaitany@122.162.15.253] has left #lisp 17:46:37 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:47:14 robyonrails [n=roby@host181-178-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:47:58 guys thanks a lot for answering my questions 17:48:11 bbl 17:49:01 -!- divinebovine [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:53:16 -!- nicolas [n=nicolas@aqu33-5-82-245-96-5.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:58:32 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:59:42 Is there any escape character I can use for a line feed in literal strings? (aside from using (format nil "blahblah~%")) 18:00:48 danderson: no, but you can insert a literal one. 18:00:53 press enter, or use cl-interpol 18:01:18 right, I'm using a literal LF right now, but it makes the forms look rather ugly. 18:01:38 (this is a unit test that checks that a generator returns a given string, which is LF terminated) 18:02:50 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:06:35 ferada [n=ferada@e179236165.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:00 tcr, recompiling frame with debug settings is hella useful, too bad i didn't know about it earlier 18:08:30 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:59 athos_ [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 18:11:19 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:11:24 -!- athos_ is now known as athos 18:14:06 -!- schasi [n=schasi@p54A27BC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 18:15:35 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:15:42 rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-51-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:19:10 danderson: http://paste.lisp.org/display/69905#1 18:24:51 locklace: whoa. 18:25:10 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-db43e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:25:29 I have no idea what that does. (well, I can guess the purpose, but with my knowledge of CL, the implementation loses me) 18:26:20 danderson: it modifies the reader to parse strings as c-style strings 18:27:17 perl-style actually 18:29:00 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 18:29:41 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:32 Yuuhi [n=user@p5483D211.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:33 -!- xinming [n=hyy@125.109.76.82] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:38:32 xinming [n=hyy@125.109.76.82] has joined #lisp 18:41:56 -!- jimi_hendrix is now known as awayfk 18:43:51 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-075-182-078-006.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:54 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:50:04 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has left #lisp 18:50:12 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:13 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #lisp 18:50:44 syamajala [n=syamajal@68-116-203-246.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:41 kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:59:55 Happy New year from a new daddy 19:00:51 hjpark [n=user@221.138.197.236] has joined #lisp 19:02:20 kiuma: Happy New Year, and Congratulations. 19:02:23 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E45EAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 19:03:15 sctb [n=sctb@user-64-9-236-188.googlewifi.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:07 brewski [n=wbruschi@cpe-74-75-37-150.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:01 -!- Yuuhi [n=user@p5483D211.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 19:14:32 tcr, you thar? 19:14:34 (time (named-readtables::readtable-contents)) 19:14:44 it printed out the timings, not the result, and it busy-loops 19:14:50 newest SLIME, worked before 19:16:31 elurin [n=user@85.104.129.185] has joined #lisp 19:16:53 it works with PROG1 nil 19:17:41 gotta see if it works on emacs 22 19:18:58 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:45 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-075-182-078-006.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:21:24 -!- brewski [n=wbruschi@cpe-74-75-37-150.maine.res.rr.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:21:55 it doesn't work on 22.2 either 19:21:59 -!- chris2 [n=chris@p5B16B207.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:22:02 -!- hjpark [n=user@221.138.197.236] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:22:09 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 19:22:17 HET4 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:24:25 uh, i broke something. the version from yesterday hangs too 19:35:36 no, it has something to do with the pretty printer 19:36:43 the same happens in CLISP. now i'm dumbfounded. 19:37:03 -!- HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:37:07 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-155-98.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:38:28 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-206-137.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:56 what other than *print-circle* could be needed to display a value? 19:39:30 LiamH [n=nobody@pool-72-75-101-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:29 hell i'm so stupid. please disregard that. 19:41:29 hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 19:41:56 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:42:47 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:46:16 H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-064-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:25 -!- happycodemonkey [n=happycod@c-98-223-43-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:51:05 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2095.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:53:24 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@68-116-203-246.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:54:26 ReiniUrban [n=chatzill@212-183-50-52.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:58:06 yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:26 -!- yoshinori [n=read_eva@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 20:01:55 benny [n=benny@i577A2095.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:04:55 Tordek [n=tordek@host14.190-137-244.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:06:24 malu__ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4cd4.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:09:28 -!- AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:10:19 AntiSpamMeta [n=MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 -!- rurban [n=chatzill@212-183-51-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:57 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:19:41 H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-046-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:29 ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-29-65.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:21:55 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [] 20:23:49 -!- HET4 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:24:30 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb4cd4.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:25:55 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-075-182-078-006.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:55 ShereKahn [n=ajourez@91.180.113.194] has joined #lisp 20:32:02 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-56.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:47 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:37 -!- H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-064-041.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:42:29 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:43:39 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:47:56 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 20:48:13 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 20:49:02 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.226.151] has quit ["I used to watch TV, then I bought a modem"] 20:51:26 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:52 syamajala [n=syamajal@68-116-203-246.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:27 msman [n=msman@89.189.93.28] has joined #lisp 20:52:36 fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:32 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177154177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:55:19 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@68-116-203-246.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:34 -!- ReiniUrban [n=chatzill@212-183-50-52.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.14/2008120416]"] 20:56:23 -!- ruediger [n=the-rued@p508B6278.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:56:24 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77-109-29-65.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:57:33 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:58:09 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-56.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 20:58:45 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 20:59:37 hi 20:59:49 -!- aggieben [i=3ff63839@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4a7577c3ad36671b] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 21:00:37 hi guys .. please guide me to ecommerce chat 21:01:01 What makes you think #lisp is the proper channel? 21:01:14 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 21:03:19 Brucio-8 [n=Brucio-8@p5492758B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:07 *Brucio-8* notes that beirc could interpret "lisp" as "#lisp" when using it within the /join command 21:08:07 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-114-35.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:09:53 -!- msman [n=msman@89.189.93.28] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:10:30 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:18:44 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-075-182-078-006.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:18:48 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-31-218.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:56 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:25:07 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@81-208-106-75.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 21:25:08 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:25:37 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:25:53 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 21:27:02 -!- Davidbrcz [n=david@ANantes-151-1-34-61.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:27:03 karlw [n=Karl_Win@cpe-76-168-206-252.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:18 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:19 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:29:38 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:30:15 bpt [i=bpt@cpe-071-065-238-208.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:22 lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:20 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@99-186-122-131.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:34:58 bzoto [n=pradella@94.36.106.230] has joined #lisp 21:35:16 -!- bzoto [n=pradella@94.36.106.230] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:10 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:38:41 O_4 [n=souchan@125-236-190-161.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #lisp 21:38:50 -!- CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:40:22 CrEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:40:35 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:43:49 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:47:02 ishkur88 [n=dydx@70.152.167.7] has joined #lisp 21:49:27 Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has joined #lisp 21:50:20 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:53:17 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:53:59 user___ [n=user@p5492758B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:11 -!- user___ [n=user@p5492758B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:28 user___ [n=user@p5492758B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:59 ajourez [n=ajourez@91.178.5.29] has joined #lisp 21:57:37 guys, I'm working on an application that will need to parse icalendar format. At present, I'm using a kludge of mixing cl-ppcre replacements on the lines of the file, then read-from-string to get back a big structred list... I was wondering what you gurus would suggest instead? 21:57:44 -!- ShereKahn [n=ajourez@91.180.113.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:00:01 i'm not quite a guru, but i'd propably do it similarily. writing a full blown custom ical parser might be "better", but a simple regex based parser should do fine for most cases. the issue certainly is that you might have to improve your regular expressions if you receive ical files from other sources than that which created the files you used to implement and test. 22:00:03 ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.90.43] has joined #lisp 22:01:49 H4ns1 : ok thanks for the advice. 22:02:14 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 22:02:50 ajourez: not a guru by far, but if the spec is written well, you might try to build a parser that will parse that to a parser. It *could* be less work 22:03:18 I just write parsers ``by hand'' 22:03:32 -!- sctb [n=sctb@user-64-9-236-188.googlewifi.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:03:58 http://www.cliki.net/text 22:04:11 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:04:20 Parsers - CL-Yacc, LALR, Zebu, ... 22:04:27 madnificent : the specs for icalendars are doc'd in rfc2445 22:05:22 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-240-155.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:34 lexclose [n=wmarvel@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:59 -!- Jabberwo_ [n=jens@dslc-082-082-045-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:06:45 patmatch [n=wmbot@dsl093-216-036.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:14 fooquux: wow, you just pointed me to cl-typesetting (indirectly) which is something I really wanted to have. Thanks for the newyear-present :P 22:08:57 You're welcome. :) 22:09:06 -!- Brucio-8 [n=Brucio-8@p5492758B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Client Quit"] 22:09:24 ajourez: looks hard to me... probably possible though. And it is a rather big spec... 22:09:53 Has anyone used SLIME on Windows with Clisp? 22:10:06 karlw: works well. 22:10:15 madnificent: actually I am only interested in getting some of the vevents "tags" 22:10:39 ajourez: but the community... ;) By hand it is then 22:10:41 I get a socket error when I slime-connect. 22:10:54 karlw: i never tried slime-connect, though :/ 22:11:57 -!- user___ [n=user@p5492758B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 22:12:08 ajourez: You could look around for a preexisting yacc or bison parser for it, and then translate that into CL-Yacc. 22:12:14 madnificent: well full fledged parser is indeed overkill for the application I have in mind, besides, I'm quite new to lisp, and would probably not be contributing to good code... 22:12:19 karlw: you could try loading it trough swank as if your lisp were on a networked computer. That may work, or it may help you find the problem (I'm no expert) 22:12:20 jbmigel [n=jbm@S010600179a220e57.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:37 fooquux: good Idea. will have a look for that... 22:13:55 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 22:14:19 hmm. 22:16:24 -!- ajourez is now known as ShereKahn 22:17:12 dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:18:18 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host181-178-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["raise RuntimeError"] 22:18:25 -!- FZ [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 22:18:33 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:19:19 -!- ak70 [n=ak70@195.158.90.43] has left #lisp 22:19:29 Blarg. I'm having package lossage in SLIME. How do I tell SLIME what package I want to be in for evaluating in some buffer? 22:19:55 put an in-package at the top of it? 22:20:24 Oh, does it read that automatically even if I haven't evaluated all of the buffer? 22:20:35 fooquux: yes 22:20:45 That'd be why then. 22:20:47 Thanks. 22:20:55 H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:02 it also uses that for symbol completion and minibuffer info and so on 22:21:22 Yes, so it does. Magic! 22:21:25 it's not really "evals the in-package too" as that it looks for that in particular to obtain the proper context 22:22:05 Hmm, can I tell it to output results in the listener rather than the minibuffer? 22:25:05 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:28 -!- H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-046-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 22:27:59 rvirding [n=rvirding@h40n5c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:44 -!- elurin [n=user@85.104.129.185] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:33:18 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 22:33:48 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:39:13 HET3 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 22:40:03 -!- dagnachew [n=dagnache@modemcable207.114-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:40:16 What would be likely causes for my exhausting of the heap? 22:41:50 infinite loops? 22:42:29 beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has joined #lisp 22:42:34 Good morning. 22:42:36 demmeln [i=demmeln@atradig111.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 22:43:11 hi. how can i check if a symbol is valid type specifier (and thus can savely be passed to typep) ? 22:43:19 good morning beach 22:44:09 beach` [n=user@58.186.158.204] has joined #lisp 22:44:27 -!- beach [n=user@58.186.158.204] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:44:30 welcome beach-clone 22:44:33 -!- beach` is now known as beach 22:44:49 thanks 22:45:43 cYmen: Allocating and keeping references to a large number of objects will exaust the heap. 22:46:13 beach: If I start a function from the repl everything will be gone when the function is done running, right? 22:46:33 beach: you being in another time zone is really throwing me off :) 22:46:35 tcr, I am in fact using the right syntax for arglist-for-echo-area, i.e. '(("+")), yet I only get (:return (:ok nil)), which is very odd. (just to be safe, I looked again at swank-arglists.lisp and the .el counterpart, and it was indeed the same code.) 22:46:38 Why is FMAKUNBOUND a unary function? Why can't I pass it a couple of functions I want unbound? 22:46:42 I seem to accumulate stuff while hacking...apparently I'm doing something fundamentally wrong :/ 22:46:45 *fooquux* is complaining. 22:47:06 drewc: Sorry. In two weeks it will be over (for this time). 22:47:52 fooquux: (map nil 'fmakunbound list-of-fns) .. the language has some built in list processing features :) 22:47:54 drewc: I have the exact same feeling. beach is like a clock to #lisp 22:48:12 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-54-89-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 22:48:18 drewc: Yeah, I know, I'm just feeling bitchy. 22:48:24 cYmen: what do you mean gone? 22:48:46 demmeln: I mean there aren't any objects left in memory, right? 22:49:01 *tic* will have to beat swank-protocol.lisp with a stick this weekend. 22:49:07 cYmen: * ** and *** will hold references to the data structures, and it is not specified _when_ a gc will happen. 22:49:25 hm...what are * ** and ***? 22:49:26 data structures returned by the functions* 22:49:38 clhs * 22:49:54 specbot? 22:50:01 minion: where is specbot? 22:50:02 behind you! 22:50:05 cYmen: likely you will have stuff hanging around especially with slime and presentations 22:50:17 which reference objects 22:50:34 hm...is there any way to check? 22:50:45 so they are not gc-ed i guess 22:51:19 cYmen: check what? if stuff is still around? not sure 22:51:33 how do I start gc manually? 22:51:34 cYmen: ROOM will tell you the details 22:51:43 cYmen: which implementation? 22:51:52 slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FF0B348.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:04 sbcl 22:52:14 SB-EXT:GC 22:52:40 thanks 22:53:07 is there a way to check if a symbol is valid type specifier (and thus can savely be passed to typep) ? 22:53:24 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:54:33 holycow [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:36 simple-array-signed-byte-30 objects.. what is that? :) 22:55:58 A simple array of (signed-byte 30). 22:56:14 demmeln: sometimes it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission... just handle or ignore the error. 22:56:16 I.e., an array of 30-bit bytes. 22:56:41 smolyn [n=smolyn@S01060016cbc4b572.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:09 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 22:57:09 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 22:57:18 ?? 22:57:33 Oh no, how will we survive without lisppaste and minion? 22:57:40 :) 22:58:07 ;_; 22:58:47 -!- bpt [i=bpt@cpe-071-065-238-208.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Success] 22:59:17 evenin' 22:59:30 Good morning! 22:59:36 Er, afternoon now. 22:59:38 evening schme 22:59:38 Yees.. in just a minute :) 22:59:54 What is this I read about minion? 23:00:05 It and lisppaste quit. 23:00:13 :( 23:00:19 I guess the machine revolution has begun. 23:00:25 Hehehe. 23:00:33 Maybe they're busy trying out that fancy firefox plugin. 23:00:42 Haha 23:00:50 It is really features closure ought to have. 23:00:52 plugin? 23:01:10 ubiquity 23:01:47 schme: Feeling any better today? 23:02:04 nyef: The cold is better, my tooth is much worse. 23:02:12 Thanks for asking though :) 23:02:20 -!- ShereKahn [n=ajourez@91.178.5.29] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:02:28 Going to the dentist for emergency fixup and antibiotics in 8 hrs. 23:02:37 eek 23:02:55 -!- Dynetrekk [n=Dynetrek@193.216.225.9] has quit [] 23:03:02 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:09 Oh it's not so bad this time around. ;) 23:03:30 -!- magnus__ [n=magnus@83.209.81.249] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:03:52 minion: memo for chandler: (panacea) yielded infinite error recursion rather than the reappearance of specbot 23:04:02 kpreid: minion is gone :) 23:04:31 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:04:36 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:43 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:44 poor thing 23:04:47 minion: How are you? 23:04:48 so is spectbot, I think 23:04:49 it's going quite fine today 23:04:53 oh! 23:04:55 Lies! 23:05:02 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 23:05:06 minion: enjoy your vacation? 23:05:07 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 23:05:14 hehe 23:05:30 drewc: thanks. i dont really like that, but it works ;) 23:05:37 minion: memo for chandler: (panacea) yielded infinite error recursion rather than the reappearance of specbot 23:05:37 Remembered. I'll tell chandler when he/she/it next speaks. 23:05:48 I'm always amazed how much humor I get out of a little program. 23:07:10 good night everyone 23:07:29 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A2095.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:07:52 -!- demmeln [i=demmeln@atradig111.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 23:08:32 nyef: READ-USB-DEVICES gave me a surprise with returning a big arse string. I was kindof expecting a list :) 23:08:54 I guess I should have read the documentation first ;) 23:12:22 is there a way to dynamically get a list of all the symbols exported by a package ? 23:12:49 something like the :browse in haskell 23:12:57 galdor: LIST-ALL-PACKAGES 23:13:04 erm 23:13:24 galdor: I meant, DO-SYMBOLS 23:13:47 benny [n=benny@i577A2095.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:13:58 Ah what a bugger. I don't have the right to open /proc/bus/usb.... 23:14:26 thank you 23:14:30 So... has swank:arglist-for-echo-area changed the past few years? 23:14:35 (the interface to it) 23:14:54 do-external-symbols, to be precise, seems to be what I was searching :) 23:15:07 If I want a multivariate function, can I just use &rest foo with no other stuff in the arglist? 23:15:16 galdor: yes, indeed. That wasn't very helpful of me. :-) 23:15:44 galdor: also, see APROPOS 23:16:02 I guess if not I could say (foo &rest bar) and then (let ((args (list foo bar))) ...). 23:16:09 luis: thx 23:16:15 nyef: That example of reading the device descriptor in the README of the lh-usb .. is that something that only works for a specific device? 23:16:28 fooq: (&rest args) should work fine. 23:16:36 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:16:42 lexclose: thanks 23:20:11 syamajala [n=syamajal@68-116-203-246.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:37 sctb [n=sctb@adsl-71-135-124-233.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:49 -!- decafbad [n=mehmet@88.232.176.53] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:27:01 *nyef* starts paying attention again. 23:27:56 schme: The descriptor itself is fairly generic. Finding the device by ID is specific to a particular type of device. 23:28:20 Only 27 ASCII glyphs to go. 23:28:28 nyef: Yes, I did change the IDs, and FIND-USB-DEVICES-BY-ID work for both I tried it on. 23:28:36 Hrm.. 23:28:43 beach: in what? 23:28:45 beach: Cool! Is this the sort of thing that is amenable to a graphical editor? 23:29:03 fooquux: I am designing a font in a Metafont-alike language. 23:29:11 ooh, fun 23:29:22 is there a rule of thumb when to use which data structure? for example an employee has three properties -- use a plain list, use clos, use an alist or use a plist 23:29:35 beach: output is postscript I hope? 23:29:51 *schme* waits for the pastebin. 23:30:01 -!- thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:30:06 turbo24prg: use clos 23:30:09 beach: more font pr0n! 23:30:12 and happy new year! 23:30:17 turbo24prg: generally, use CLOS 23:30:34 turbo24prg: With few exceptions, CLOS. 23:30:40 thanks! 23:30:48 schme: I think that lisppaste didn't come back when minion and specbot did. 23:31:40 schme pasted "lh-usb" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72924 23:31:49 nyef: That is what I'm getting. 23:32:12 [13:03:02] * lisppaste (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #lisp 23:32:14 fooquux: Cubic Bezier splines, yes. But it is designed to be integrated with McCLIM. 23:32:24 "unsigned-bytepe 8"? 23:32:27 ... used structs with defconstant for the first time and came across ccl's No MAKE-LOAD-FORM error. :/ 23:32:34 hah 23:32:36 HAH 23:32:41 I bet the UAET of that is T. :-P 23:32:54 slyrus_: not this morning. I need to finish breakfast and go teach my first lecture. Happy New Year to you too. 23:32:56 Right. 23:33:07 There we go. 23:33:12 I just woke up an hour ago ;) 23:33:13 Err... "bytpe", not "bytepe". 23:33:16 Fair enough. 23:33:52 That's odd. My copy an' paste must have gotten an extra p in there. 23:35:29 Brilliant. I need to go look up how to talk to this thing :) 23:35:34 nyef: good work! 23:35:38 Thanks. 23:35:54 Let me know how it goes. I've already got a pile of ideas for 0.2, and some feedback would be nice. 23:36:44 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:36:52 yay freenode. 23:37:40 fooquux: the difference between (first-arg &rest other-args) and (&rest args) is that in the later case you can pass no argument, while in the former case, you must pass at least one argument. 23:37:46 gottesmm [n=gottesmm@adsl-69-153-199-137.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:49 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:38:27 nyef: I see before me a nice CLIM browser for the USB subsystem :) 23:38:48 schme_: Funny, I had in mind that I could just link in with SBCL's inspector... 23:38:59 pjb: Hmm. So since I require at least one I should use the former, and then do (let ((args (list first-arg other-args)))). 23:39:07 Hmm.. no idea about the SBCL inspector. 23:39:11 Probably a good idea :) 23:39:17 H4ns1 [n=hans@dialin-145-254-061-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:22 fooquux: (let ((args (cons first-arg other-args))) ...) 23:39:28 minion: Paste 32760? 23:39:28 Paste number 32760: "How to make the SBCL inspector suck less for ALIEN-VALUE objects" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/32760 23:39:36 fooquux: Try both and see what suits you better. 23:40:22 Basically, take that idea, and specialize on usb-hub and usb-device objects... 23:41:25 -!- enodran [n=brandon@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 23:41:28 Oh cools. 23:41:31 enodran [n=brandon@207-180-130-218.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:53 time to hack 23:42:17 thom_logn [n=thom@pool-96-229-99-100.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:24 No.. time to find a new audio player for the computer so I can have some music while hacking. cmus segfaults all of a sudden :( 23:42:34 Any quick recommendations? 23:42:40 xmms 23:42:45 emms I mean. 23:42:50 Hell no. 23:42:57 mpg123? 23:43:00 I tried emms some time ago, not going there again :) 23:43:04 -!- karlw [n=Karl_Win@cpe-76-168-206-252.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:43:18 Then write one in CL! 23:43:23 does Lisp have a built in function for finding the arc cotangent? 23:44:20 pjb: Good idea actually. I'll put it on mah project list here. See the problem with emms is that I tried loading my music library. It's just a couple of 500k songs. Locked my emacs up for 5 hrs, then I gave up and killed it. :) 23:44:34 ishkur88: I'll venture a no :) 23:44:46 "arc cotangent"? 23:45:00 schme_: climplayer? 23:45:07 schme_, cplay 23:45:12 *schme_* looks. 23:45:18 schme_: with mine it worked. But I only have a few GBs. 23:45:18 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 23:45:20 ishkur88: you can do it with a combination of trig functions, anyway 23:45:27 Well, if it does, it'll be in clhs section 12.2, and possibly mentioned in 12.1.1. 23:45:37 so is "operator" a synonym for "keyword"? 23:45:57 What I need is the sorting of stuff nice. amarok and cmus do it. The rest seem.. not so hot :) I'll check out climplayer though. Worst case scenario it's a good thing to hack up so it works proper ;) 23:46:02 thanks! 23:46:06 cot=1/tan ; acot = 1/atan 23:46:19 (defun acot (x) (/ (atan x))) 23:46:56 weirdo: not in CL. 23:47:25 in a macro 23:47:37 so, my pattern matcher is nearing completion 23:47:39 drewc: Thanks man. That climplayer is what I'll get to work like it should :) 23:47:53 now only the switch to clos and defining an api 23:47:57 schme_: we aim to please :) 23:47:59 i believe the name "toadstool" is very appropriate 23:48:06 drewc: We do? 23:48:10 ;) 23:48:28 Saves me the trouble of reinventing the wheel here. Goodness! 23:48:46 not like the subject matter will go away after a release, though 23:50:19 -!- fooquux [n=fooquux@udp265832uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit ["Quit"] 23:52:12 I don't think anyone has devised the formula for the perfect music player yet. The invasion of the iTunes clones has largely been a step backward. 23:52:30 small gripe with sbcl: subtypep and list-difference should have more descriptive arglists 23:53:01 *rsynnott* has just given in and embraced itunes 23:53:03 -!- lenst [n=user@host-217-213-143-177.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:53:26 rsynnott: with or without ipod? 23:54:00 -!- H4ns [n=hans@dialin-145-254-063-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:54:04 Well climplayer is messed up it would seem :) 23:54:18 oh, with ipod, so more or less dependant on it anyway 23:54:38 the problem with media players is not with media players but media consumers 23:54:40 Really? I thought the ipod could be treated as just an external drive? 23:54:43 yes, but itunes works quite well when you get used to it 23:54:43 Hmm.. I used to have an ipod, it worked fine with that open source software I forget the name of. 23:54:51 that one will never be sorted out 23:54:54 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:18 *weirdo* uses soulseek instead of itunes, it's more economic too 23:55:21 nyef: well, you need software which understands their database, but otherwise, yep 23:55:30 iphones, on the other hand... 23:55:30 rsynnott: rockbox ;) 23:56:41 -!- Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:57:59 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:59:16 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@207.189.195.44] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:29 _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:49 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:59:59 Odin- [n=sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp