00:01:10 -!- sohum [n=sohum@114.72.191.221] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:04:03 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 00:07:25 I think it's a CLSQL bug, actually, based on http://uffi.b9.com/manual/with-cstring.html , which seems to imply that you have to convert Lisp strings with with-cstring before passing to a :cstring param 00:07:55 which postgresql-sql.lisp does in other places 00:09:01 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.169.254] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:12:55 -!- anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:19:20 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-155-193-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:19:57 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 00:20:22 meh, emailed uffi-users 00:22:40 -!- dan [i=dkc@unaffiliated/dan] has quit ["leaving"] 00:22:41 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:22:42 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit ["gone"] 00:23:48 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:26:00 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-047-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:07 -!- mulander` [n=user@nat-4.interq.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:13 not counting on a response anytime soon, so I'll just patch myself I guess 00:29:47 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student166-32.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 00:30:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Client Quit] 00:33:21 ianmcorvidae [n=ianmcorv@student167-193.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 00:33:39 wasabi____ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:36:56 ianmcorvidae: hampshire? 00:37:52 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-005-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:40:52 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-3e7f053ad970a071] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:41:05 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-0f37e79c1a39debe] has joined #lisp 00:42:41 Yay. Hampshire. 00:42:58 mogunus: we're takin' over. 00:44:07 -!- wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:49:26 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:41 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:52:02 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 00:52:46 tic: was it you that was writing some special eql-specializer stuff? 00:56:47 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-62-216-221-201.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:57:35 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:58:05 ejs [n=eugen@92-49-230-127.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 00:58:28 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 01:01:12 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-31-166.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:01:40 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users172.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:01:52 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 01:02:27 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:04:13 -!- elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:04:55 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.80.232] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:05:25 ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.80.232] has joined #lisp 01:06:39 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-226.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 01:11:37 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:56 -!- Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:12:01 sohum [n=sohum@114.72.231.48] has joined #lisp 01:12:36 ok, question: what's the var I have to customise to change the "this code hasn't been compiled" face in slime? 01:17:25 alpheus [n=user@c-98-213-176-16.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:35 nm, it's under customize-group slime-mode-faces. 01:17:37 -!- sohum [n=sohum@114.72.231.48] has left #lisp 01:24:34 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:09 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 01:26:15 what was the html trick called? say you have a form with many elements, and you wanna hide the optional ones until some others have been filled then you the hidden ones dynamically 01:26:59 wrong window 01:27:10 -!- hothoofs [n=new@burnaby.axiomnetworking.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:33:29 hmmpf, google turns up lisp related stuff even when i search for other things 01:33:59 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:34:40 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has joined #lisp 01:37:38 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:42:13 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:43:45 fusss: It learns your behaviour :) 01:46:04 ths__ [n=ths@X6098.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:48:36 all lisp is good for is ai 01:48:54 Quadrescence: don't be trollin' 01:49:01 :[ 01:49:42 dakeyras_ [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:47 -!- dakeyras_ [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:50:14 fusss: Ping. 01:50:31 chandler: sup? 01:50:41 fusss: Mind if I /msg? 01:50:47 not at all 01:56:05 proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 01:59:25 -!- ths [n=ths@X7ad2.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:01:18 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:12 fusss: around? 02:06:28 drewc: yeah 02:06:42 jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:07:09 fusss: i just noticed your question in #tech.coop from what must have been last week .. did you ever get and answer? 02:07:13 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@223.pool85-49-171.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:07:18 an answer* 02:07:32 no 02:07:43 i keep getting into the bootloader thing 02:08:08 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@223.pool85-49-171.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 02:08:16 fuss: /join #tech.coop and i'll give you a hand 02:09:23 froydnj: around? 02:13:18 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 02:13:38 quadrate [n=chatzill@146.115.53.141] has joined #lisp 02:13:40 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:55 mueslisc1nitte [n=kaldewey@147.172.224.4] has joined #lisp 02:19:11 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:03 luis pasted "making SBCL use all of its heap; better ideas anyone?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72215 02:23:21 does that look remotely sane? 02:23:44 the idea is to have GC triggered only when the heap fills up 02:24:08 well, since it's a copying GC, when the heap fills halfway 02:25:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92-49-230-127.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:43 I'm a bit unclear on this... can I subclass eql specializers so that they follow extra steps if there's no such method for that specific object? 02:27:18 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-136.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 02:27:32 luis: what's the real goal? 02:29:22 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-136.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 02:29:56 jsnell: I'm not sure yet, just playing with benchmarking. Collecting less often gives more time for objects to become garbage and thus score higher on the benchmarks. 02:30:05 pwnani [n=user@ec2-67-202-38-234.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:17 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:30:39 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:56 jsnell: makes sense? 02:31:27 sykopomp: how? sample? 02:31:42 luis: for benchmarketing, maybe. for the real world, not so much 02:32:07 it'd be pretty obnoxious for a default x86-64 sbcl to use 4GB of memory before a gc :-) 02:33:34 fusss: I'm working on a prototype thing. I'm trying to figure out if I can just write a metaobject that will allow me to just use CLOS' generic functions. I don't really want to implement the whole thing :P 02:33:54 jsnell: well, but if you do have 4GB for SBCL to use, it might be a good idea to do so, no? 02:34:23 and it's assuming that the only interesting part about gc performance is throughput, completely ignoring latency 02:34:31 I'm just not clear whether I should keep running through AMOP trying to find how to do what I want to do, or if it's a lost cause. 02:35:07 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-69-254-76-231.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:10 jsnell: that's true. 02:36:59 and if you suddenly don't have 4GB of ram available because firefox has grown to 500 MB and you're now swapping while trying to gc that 4GB of garbage, well, the throughput is probably going to be worse than if you had gcd earlier 02:36:59 -!- cipher [n=cipher@pool-98-118-51-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:37:17 I'm not saying that the default threshold of 12MB is optimal in any sense, it's a completely arbitrary number 02:37:56 and it might be a good idea to adjust it dynamically such that the larger your heap is, the larger the threshold 02:38:16 *hefnr* was about to ask if it did that, thinking he'd observed that it didn't 02:39:05 s/heap/current heap usage/ 02:40:04 -!- tarleb [n=user@visnet-80.csl.sri.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:42:39 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-0f37e79c1a39debe] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:42:48 jsnell: Only 500 MB? That's a small FF 02:43:54 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:11 jsnell: so the real reason was that I was trying to plot some metrics in function of the heap size (as seen in the Immix GC paper) but I was getting the same numbers for every size because bytes-consed-between-gcs was always the same. 02:45:25 Does CCL allocates incrementally or a big honking 8G like SBCL? 02:45:27 this way I get improved performance with bigger heaps (yay?) 02:47:47 p_l: it allocates 512G 02:48:16 (on x86-64) 02:48:32 p_l: lichteblau's got an SBCL branch that allocates incrementally 02:50:02 luis: It doesn't work anymore 02:50:08 luis: ok, but that kind of a graph is something that's pretty far from real world conditions, so I'm not sure what it's going to prove 02:50:41 stassats: So I'm sticking with SBCL... argh, the only Lisp out there to fit everything seems to be ECL 02:50:52 since real world garbage collectors do need to make the compromises between throughput, latency, and space usage 02:50:55 dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 02:52:09 dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:10 jsnell: this sort of graph might show how a copying GC's performance degrades faster than a non-copying one when faced with a tight heap? 02:52:12 http://rafb.net/p/WJKTU498.html 02:53:35 -!- Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:53:43 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:55:25 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-24-125.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:57 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:58:57 fair enough 02:59:39 fusss: no ideas, I guess? 03:00:48 meh, allocating less than 512G is boring 03:01:26 S11001001: When you work with overcommit disabled, it is not boring... 03:01:54 -!- dreish [n=dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [] 03:02:03 p_l: I think it's the other way around. 03:02:04 cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-233-165-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:18 ;-) 03:02:44 that setting ought to be ignored when !MAP_RESERVED 03:03:04 luis: You mean allocating 512G without overcommit? Sure, just give me a computer that has such amount of memory :P 03:03:05 or whatever it is 03:03:09 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 03:03:17 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@c-71-233-165-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:03:29 S11001001: Well, I'm not brave enough to correct that error in Linux VM 03:04:19 MAP_NORESERVE that's it 03:04:41 p_l: pretend to work on it for a year or two and Ingo Molnar will write his own version. 03:05:59 luis: That's an interesting option :P 03:06:49 hmm... I wonder, what if I'd add a small option to SBCL to use file-backed store... should avoid OOM-killer and overcommit problems 03:07:35 p_l: oh, what do you mean it doesn't work anymore? 03:08:10 it = lichteblau's incremental allocation branch 03:09:06 ahaas: pong? 03:09:11 luis: Well, all I found was one patch that doesn't apply (and I don't feel confident enough to play with GC), and lichteblau said no one has been working on it for a long time 03:09:33 overcommit is my most hated "feature" on linux 03:09:44 p_l: http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/lichteblau.git?a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/relocation <- this one WFM 03:10:24 -!- ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:11:17 I wonder how much difference there is between that version and 1.0.22 03:12:11 p_l: look at the NEWS file since 1.0.12/13, I guess. 03:12:43 p_l: or are you wondering about conflicts? 03:12:53 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13:04 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:07 luis: More about conflicts. I'd love to see this merged one day.. 03:13:33 /whois p_l 03:14:16 Polland, Krakow? 03:14:34 luis: Nope 03:14:38 Aberdeen, UK 03:15:21 the server is in Warsaw, though 03:15:24 Did we have this conversation a few months ago? 03:15:35 luis: Probably 03:15:44 Lately I have problems keeping track of things 03:16:04 *luis* recommends org-mode! 03:16:15 luis: Yeah, I need to re-learn it 03:16:27 *luis* off to bed, see ya 03:16:30 Since switching to new laptop I haven't redid my config 03:16:33 cya 03:17:21 sykopomp: i don't know what you mean by "eql specializer", but if your method signature is (defmethod method ((eql object foo) ..) ...) which one of those did you want to make it into a type heirarchy? method, object or foo? 03:18:04 afk 03:18:10 fusss: I want the method to follow a custom hierarchy I have for my objects, which is determined in-instance (as opposed to being class-based) 03:18:31 sykopomp: GF lookup isn't class-based 03:18:57 S11001001: I guess I'm confused then. 03:19:15 so if you want GFs to chase the prototype chain, you can't use standard methods or even the usual GF compute-applicable-methods stuff 03:19:42 effective method resolution can use both class heirarchy and specialized objects 03:19:57 yes, but methods don't belong to any class 03:20:11 nope 03:20:22 yeah. I was wondering if it was possible to write some metaobjects that -would- follow the prototype chain. Or if the MOP won't allow for something like that. 03:20:28 so he is forced to write his own compute-effective-method 03:20:33 yes 03:20:57 I mean, I don't mind that, I guess. 03:21:16 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.94.2.147] has joined #lisp 03:21:21 Anything is better than rolling up the entire generic function system myself... 03:21:33 if you're writing a purely prototype based objects, you will need to think of how you want to implement "inheritence". deep vs shallow copying of the prototype slots. 03:21:54 fusss: I already have that. Prototype inheritance and slots is already written. 03:21:56 if you plan to chase prototypes, how do you plan to deal with multiple specializers? 03:22:09 actually, I could implement message-passing-style methods already if I wanted to have it that way. 03:22:18 cmsimon [n=Casey_Da@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 03:22:31 inforichland [n=tim@68-118-159-71.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:38 does any prototype based system even use multimethods? they tend to unify slots and methods into one "trait" category 03:22:46 S11001001: I'm not sure what the problem is? 03:23:12 fusss: I know. I'd rather have multimethods if I can. Actually, there's some multimethod prototype language that I got linked to (I lost the link. I'll try to find it.... 03:23:36 you must be thinking of the one from BBN 03:24:13 sykopomp: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/oop/non_clos/corbit/0.html 03:25:06 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 03:25:18 D: Does this actually work? This is fantastic. 03:26:53 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:56 your "clone" operation will have to do allot of heavy lifting too 03:28:29 appletizer [n=a@82-32-120-59.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:29:18 object specialization will be the bad way to go, imp (eql foo bar) uses object identity; how should it handle a cloned object that hasn't been modified? 03:29:18 -!- inforichland [n=tim@68-118-159-71.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:29:43 it sounds like I should just roll my own, hm? 03:30:00 -!- esden [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["humm"] 03:30:14 you can get allot of mileage out of CLOS, but even non-CLOS Lisp can help here 03:31:14 try it with just passing closures around, and maybe structs. you will get cheap constructors, pretty printing with none of the CLOS regime (specially since you're not very comfortable with CLOS) 03:31:50 when in doubt, test things with cons cells, then bring in the architecture later 03:31:56 rtoym [n=chatzill@user-0c8hpll.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:32:12 rigamarole 03:32:49 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:34:10 just see what schemers get to accomplish with so little 03:34:23 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:34:52 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-2-23.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:57 cons cells, an unnecessary luxury! 03:36:15 and that's "pairs", friend 03:37:09 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.94.2.147] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 03:37:14 S11001001: erm 03:37:17 -!- cmsimon [n=Casey_Da@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has left #lisp 03:37:26 problem is, a list is just cons cells 03:37:38 so, it's more the whole basis of the language. 03:37:50 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:37:55 fine, linkifying 03:38:28 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-14.html#%_sec_2.1.3 03:38:41 fusss: it's really the multimethods thing that's getting me :( 03:39:12 fusss: and I am quite comfortable with CLOS, even though I don't know the internals all that well. 03:39:16 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has left #lisp 03:42:15 defgeneric has an :argument-precedence-order option, sniff around there and see if you could wrap defclass/defmethod 03:42:33 roger. Thanks. 03:43:04 -!- pwnani [n=user@ec2-67-202-38-234.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:43:59 clhs: define-method-combination 03:43:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_4.htm 03:44:48 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:44:53 Kleene's book summarizes the builtin method combinations; they're modeled after lisp operators, progn/and/or, etc. 03:45:17 clhs: 7.6.6.4 03:45:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_ffd.htm 03:45:37 CLOS is basically an object system SDK 03:45:51 bobo [n=bobo@c-76-119-115-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:38 you can't use :before, :after and :around methods on all of them, however 03:47:23 clhs seems to be having trouble loading. Heh. 03:49:10 don't have a local copy? 03:49:33 lw is down 03:49:51 darn. No, I don't have a local one :-\ 03:49:54 lesson learned. Heh. 03:51:05 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:23 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:40 tarleb [n=user@adsl-76-221-186-116.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:36 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-122.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:59:27 sykopomp: for now, http://70.187.234.43:8080/ansicl.htm 03:59:36 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.204.133.122] has joined #lisp 03:59:56 ty 04:00:47 never mind 04:00:48 http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/5.0.1/ansicl/ansicl.htm 04:03:14 sykopomp: apt-get install hyperspec IIRC :) 04:03:28 drewc: I'm not a debian user :P 04:03:48 sykopomp: well there's your problem :P 04:03:57 I like to think the opposite. 04:04:12 "at least I don't use debian" etc 04:04:15 :P 04:07:55 -!- bobo [n=bobo@c-76-119-115-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:08:21 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@151.204.133.122] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:09:47 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-122.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:24 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 04:13:22 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 04:17:05 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:17:40 esden [n=esdentem@91-67-156-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 04:17:54 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:22 -!- esden [n=esdentem@91-67-156-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:27:03 kejsaren_ [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:24 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:33:54 for all the allegations of being primitive, slackware remains the best imo 04:34:33 yesterday i tried to upgrade a cluster of redhat 8 machines and they have been hell 04:35:05 redhat removed the developer signatures for the packages from their servers; all the urls 404ed, and it was a general cluster fsck 04:36:38 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:36:40 slackware is built in a "worse is better" tradition 04:37:47 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 04:39:02 stassats: What do you mean by that? (am honestly curious, as I have never used slackware) 04:39:34 "it just works" 04:40:05 GrayMagiker: http://dreamsongs.com/WIB.html 04:40:37 section "2.1 The Rise of Worse is Better" 04:40:45 not WIB, rather minimalism, small is beautiful and such 04:43:01 more KISS than WIB 04:45:04 sykopomp: it's the same for _me_ 04:46:05 -!- quadrate [n=chatzill@146.115.53.141] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"] 04:48:03 i looked at the essay again and stassats is spot on. whether this philosophy is "worse" depends on what it's worse than 04:48:26 certainly not centralize package management and dependency hell 04:50:48 LW is back, btw :-) 04:53:05 sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 04:57:04 |etfb| [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:06 _etfb_ [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:17 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:57:19 -!- |etfb| [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit 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_8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:32:10 -!- appletizer [n=a@82-32-120-59.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:33:04 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-b1dfdf1d46980efb] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:36:47 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@160.79.78.72] has quit [] 06:38:05 -!- bobo [n=bobo@c-76-119-115-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:39:04 KD-Misafir480 [n=KD-Misaf@78.169.253.40] has joined #lisp 06:39:09 hi 06:39:14 every body 06:40:36 binghe [n=chatzill@60.12.227.4] has joined #lisp 06:41:27 . 06:43:04 hi 06:43:46 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 06:46:13 -!- binghe [n=chatzill@60.12.227.4] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a1/20080924175546]"] 06:47:36 gonzojive [n=red@ip98-169-42-150.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:37 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@ip98-169-42-150.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:47:39 -!- KD-Misafir480 [n=KD-Misaf@78.169.253.40] has left #lisp 06:57:38 -!- rullie [n=rullie@CPE0012178905a3-CM000a735f8e51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:00:10 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:01:05 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 07:02:31 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:05:16 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 07:08:41 good morning 07:08:49 umis [n=umis@prudent-gloryer.volia.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:31 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:12:34 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:13:33 O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:14:38 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has joined #lisp 07:15:31 gonzojive_ [n=red@ip98-169-46-222.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:20 John [n=John@cpe-76-184-107-83.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:16:28 -!- John [n=John@cpe-76-184-107-83.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:17:46 pchrist|1niv [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 07:20:29 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 07:21:04 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:21:35 netaust1n [n=austinsm@cpe-98-14-220-121.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:45 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:22:57 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:12 rudi [n=rudi@z118l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:35 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:27:14 wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has joined #lisp 07:27:49 Will `remove-duplicates' assume that the TEST is transitive? 07:28:35 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:29:27 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:31:39 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:32:01 -!- O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:32:30 -!- gonzojive [n=red@ip98-169-42-150.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:01 manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:33:08 -!- hefnr [n=hefner@c-68-50-101-139.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:35:59 O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:39:39 -!- proqesi [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:41:03 -!- tarleb [n=user@adsl-76-221-186-116.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:42:01 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:44:32 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:47:36 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:48:05 hjpark [n=user@61.109.28.117] has joined #lisp 07:48:47 what's mean this error msg ? "The name "CL-WHO" does not designate 07:48:47 any package." 07:48:48 -!- mdxi [n=mdxi@li11-97.members.linode.com] has quit ["leaving"] 07:49:15 hjpark, could you paste your source code at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp ? 07:49:32 i just want to defpackge 07:49:35 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:40 and the code is just two lines => (defpackage :my-page 07:49:40 (:use :cl :cl-who :hunchentoot :parenscript)) 07:49:47 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:50:07 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:29 hjpark: write an asdf, defpackage is not a package loader 07:51:14 so, before defpackage load all package use asdf ? 07:51:40 now i'm trying this tutorial http://www.adampetersen.se/code/retro-games.lisp 07:52:13 if the package doesn't exist, defpackage can't :use it - so load cl-who first 07:52:18 i'm working on emacs slime, and all the package is in /usr/share/common-lisp 07:52:27 ok 07:53:02 Zephtar [n=srusek@195.164.255.30] has joined #lisp 07:53:18 found a bug, wrote update-instance-from-records for a object store instead of update-records-from-instance :) 07:53:28 jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has joined #lisp 07:54:01 i have seen allot of bugs in my day, but this one is the most stellar. apparently you can't run Skype and Apache over the same host. both use port 443 for secure communication :-) 07:54:11 home this saves someone lotsa troubleshooting 07:54:56 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 07:55:14 when i'm write (require 'cl-who) the error msg is gone, (require) is need only for repl right? 07:55:14 07:55:26 no 07:55:37 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:55:47 hjpark: require is not guaranteed to work. you probably want ASDF 07:55:55 cracki [n=cracki@45-225.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:55:56 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:55:57 (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :cl-who) 07:55:58 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:56:07 hjpark: require is mostly for the repl 07:56:15 mostly for repl.. 07:56:19 chances are require runs asdf:operate behind your back :) 07:56:19 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:56:20 tiesje` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 -!- O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:32 on SBCL asdf installs a require-handler 07:56:43 look at the bottom of asdf.lisp for this 07:56:44 tiesje`` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:56:55 thx, i'll try asdf 07:57:02 -!- tiesje` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:57:16 -!- tiesje`` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:57:22 tiesje`` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:57:23 if you just noodle around on the repl and in a file, require is fine 07:57:41 tiesje``` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:58:06 if i want to use a number of package then i have to write a number of lines asdf:load-op for these package? 07:58:18 hjpark: yes 07:58:43 or you write one asdf:defsystem form that declares which files are in your project and which systems it depends on 07:59:12 O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:59:16 see http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html for a tutorial 07:59:21 hjpark: but if a module (package means something else) if a module depends on a bunch of other modules, one asdf call will automatically load the others 07:59:21 -!- tiesje``` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:56 oh, asdf works fine. 08:00:44 rudi: that url has "does not designate any package." issue. thx :) 08:03:13 #lisp, I have converted yet another 08:05:07 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:06:35 -!- Zephtar_ [n=srusek@195.164.255.30] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:07:09 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:09:23 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 08:10:23 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:10:38 -!- tiesje`` [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:12:35 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:04 Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.224.129] has joined #lisp 08:17:14 yet another what? 08:18:07 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has joined #lisp 08:19:24 g'day 08:19:44 -!- O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:19:49 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:20:41 heya schme. 08:21:04 tic: Did you feel the earthquake? 08:22:31 schme, nope! I heard you just had one. Any broken glass? 08:22:55 Nope. None at all. Just scared cats, and some shaking. 08:23:18 well time for code (: 08:23:25 O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:24:26 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-225.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:24:29 -!- rudi [n=rudi@z118l194.static.ctm.net] has quit ["Client exciting"] 08:25:39 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 08:27:31 -!- xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:27:56 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:28:28 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 08:30:36 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:39 -!- manuel__ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 08:34:28 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:36:16 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA473.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:36:51 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1"] 08:39:18 splittist [n=splittis@88-69.78-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:39:22 morning 08:40:27 vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-0ae58804e02be69b] has joined #lisp 08:40:28 has rich_holygoat (richard newman) been around lately? 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09:35:50 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@220.157.86.160] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:40:18 xjrn [n=jim@c-24-7-31-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:22 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:40:39 JERRY 09:40:59 um.. 09:41:03 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-69-254-76-231.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:39 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:03 Phoodus, Adamant: ? 09:45:14 -!- saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 09:45:23 turbo24prg: Seinfield reference 09:45:26 sorry 09:46:02 karan [i=3b5e90c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7cc5129c21d9473b] has joined #lisp 09:46:33 -!- missyjane [n=hey@unaffiliated/missyjane] has left #lisp 09:47:21 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-195-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:47:57 -!- karan [i=3b5e90c1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7cc5129c21d9473b] has quit [Client Quit] 09:48:37 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 09:50:46 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 09:51:24 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:52:30 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A04F2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:54:57 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:56:19 'hello 09:57:07 -!- bob_f is now known as bobf 09:58:16 -!- bobf [n=bob_f@unaffiliated/bobf] has quit ["bfirc dans ta gueule."] 09:59:04 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 09:59:46 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:03 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:00:55 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-195-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:01:47 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-112-104.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:02:08 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:11 Zephtar_ [n=srusek@195.164.255.30] has joined #lisp 10:04:30 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 10:05:06 -!- pchrist|1niv [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 10:05:28 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 10:05:48 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 10:06:38 divinebovine [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:42 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:08:07 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:10:44 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-225.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 10:12:00 mulligan [n=user@75-111.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 10:13:35 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has left #lisp 10:13:48 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:41 mulligan` [n=user@75-88.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:22 -!- Zephtar_ [n=srusek@195.164.255.30] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]"] 10:19:57 -!- Zephtar [n=srusek@195.164.255.30] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:22:44 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.238] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:26:50 cky_ [n=cky@203-211-84-191.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:26:56 -!- mulligan [n=user@75-111.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:28:24 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:29:46 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 10:31:35 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:36:42 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:36:42 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:37:09 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:15 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:40:32 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-8-240.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 10:40:33 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:46:51 -!- mulligan` [n=user@75-88.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:48:29 robyonrails [n=roby@host211-200-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:49:28 ASau [n=user@77.246.230.238] has joined #lisp 10:50:47 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:51:02 -!- cky [n=cky@202-74-223-70.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:54:03 Beeet [n=stathis@wifi139-50.pubaccess.auth.gr] has joined #lisp 10:55:07 Greetings everyone! I was wondering whether it is possible to replace every even number of a list of numbers, with its square using SUBSTITUTE-IF. ( I already figured out how to do it with MAPCAR ) 10:58:19 no 10:59:20 Thanks lispm! 11:00:26 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:01:24 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-195-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:15:01 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:18:44 welp hfsbo.com now up to r402. 'night all 11:19:02 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-195-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:21:58 -!- divinebovine [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:22:18 divinebovine [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:41 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:24:59 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.242.65] has joined #lisp 11:25:48 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:26:45 replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-16-18.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:26:58 -!- divinebovine [n=rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:33:46 DanielRM [i=d9ab8146@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4972ce9b2898ab7c] has joined #lisp 11:33:55 -!- DanielRM [i=d9ab8146@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4972ce9b2898ab7c] has left #lisp 11:39:33 -!- ths__ [n=ths@X6098.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:42:54 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-195-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:43:01 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 11:43:41 -!- dto2 is now known as dto0x 11:45:37 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-4.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 11:49:36 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-101-69.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 11:51:50 -!- Beeet [n=stathis@wifi139-50.pubaccess.auth.gr] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:53:22 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:53:39 missyjane [n=hey@unaffiliated/missyjane] has joined #lisp 11:55:27 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 11:56:06 elderK [n=elderK@218-101-117-123.dialup.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 11:56:08 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-136.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:56:55 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 11:58:25 ignas [n=Ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:58:36 -!- ignas [n=Ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00:44 -!- jsoft [n=Administ@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:04:30 How do people pass the condition arosen to the restart's body? 12:05:18 -!- andreas [n=andreas@p579F8748.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:05:47 :interactive-function (which is used to generate parameters for the restart's body lambda) accepts zero arguments.. 12:06:02 restart-bind-speaking, that is 12:08:29 hm... 12:08:36 In fact, I should have asked -- how do people pass condition arosen to the restart's body when they do not control the call to invoke-restart. 12:08:50 the more i read about lisp the more i feel.. somewhat alienated, lisp look nothing like any other languages ive ever used.. :/... 12:09:17 Yeah. 12:09:23 missyjane, I think there are many language which conjure this kind of feeling. 12:09:25 missyjane: why would you want it to be more like any other language you have ever used? 12:09:26 Not all languages are algoloid. 12:10:26 missyjane: have you been coding with it, or just reading what other people have to say about it? 12:10:27 missyjane: study Forth, Prolog, SML, and Haskell to get even more crazy. 12:11:15 jdz, oh no i never said i want it to be more like other languages, in fact, im simply sayin that if lisp is the standard in which languages should be, then i am angry at all the other languages creator 12:11:42 sykopomp, actually been reading common lisp "a gentle introduction" 12:11:51 deepfire, ASau, as noted :) 12:11:55 missyjane: why should other languages be like lisp? 12:12:08 missyjane: I get very angry at other language creators sometimes as well. Also worth noting is that lisp isn't *actually* that different from other languages, specially Common Lisp. 12:12:20 jdz: the newer ones tend to be... 12:14:00 i enjoy common lisps gentle introduction, it certainly gives me a more concrete way of thinking; prior that i was just "stick this here... this goes there... ok that should work" 12:14:28 it makes me think logically, lets me put down in a workflow 12:15:08 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 12:15:26 missyjane: yes. I found it to be a quite nice introduction to programming in general. It's not terribly nice for practical applications of common lisp, though. 12:16:01 hm ill read the sexy book after i finish this then, im gonnoa read it from cover to cover 12:16:02 missyjane: but it's a great place to start, and you'll have a good grounding in a lot of nice concepts. I also found Gentle Intro's recursion patterns to be pretty useful. 12:16:34 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:16:35 Have fun, then. That's what it's all about in the end :D 12:16:53 -!- dto0x [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:16:53 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:17:14 -!- dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 12:17:26 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:02 is gentle intros recursion a chapter or a book? 12:19:05 it's a chapter (or two, I think) 12:19:39 ooh 12:19:44 i look forward to it 12:20:30 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:04 esden [n=esden@91-67-156-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:42 benny [n=benny@i577A1B32.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:45 eevar2 [n=jalla@127.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:29 missyjane: sorry, what book is that? 12:27:39 hm "common lisp, gentle introduction" 12:29:11 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/index.html 12:29:12 this one? 12:29:50 -!- esden [n=esden@91-67-156-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Blubb"] 12:29:53 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:25 yes! i lost the link sorry 12:32:17 replor [n=replor@EM114-48-16-18.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:35:18 wasabi_____ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:35:31 replor__ [n=replor@EM114-48-16-18.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:36:12 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 12:38:28 -!- elderK [n=elderK@218-101-117-123.dialup.clear.net.nz] has quit [] 12:41:19 Good afternoon. 12:41:30 good afternoon beach 12:42:25 ths [n=ths@p549AF271.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:06 mulligan [n=user@75-57.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:30 hello beach! 12:45:22 afternoon, beach 12:46:52 might be a bad place to ask but... anybody a sysadmin here? 12:47:31 -!- wasabi____ [n=wasabi@ntoska310174.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:48:07 -!- replor_ [n=replor@EM114-48-16-18.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:49:39 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:50:00 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:28 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:36 missyjane: what do you mean 'sysadmin'? 12:53:09 sykopomp: don't help people here, you must work on the tutorial! :-P 12:53:30 madnificent: maybe later. :P 12:55:01 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-16-18.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:56:40 -!- loz [n=loz@r220-101-68-77.cpe.unwired.net.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:57:13 missyjane: what do you want? 12:58:32 elderK [n=elderK@218-101-117-123.dialup.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 12:59:11 -!- lispm [n=joswig@g224122211.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 13:01:39 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:03:47 Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has joined #lisp 13:05:57 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8aa0-056.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:09:11 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:02 moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #lisp 13:10:07 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:10:57 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-82a46fce8ce52384] has joined #lisp 13:12:14 -!- mulligan [n=user@75-57.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:13:18 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:14:57 vasa [n=vasa@mm-41-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 13:15:42 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:15:58 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:17:37 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:19:37 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-41-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit [Client Quit] 13:19:49 vasa [n=vasa@mm-41-94-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 cl-net-snmp isn't asdf-installable anymore? 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14:54:51 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:53 toolkit* 14:56:28 hjpark, depends what you want to do but I've seen LTK suggested as a mostly portable and easy way. besides that McCLIM might be worth a look 14:56:37 I haven't tried mcclim myself 14:57:19 there are a few mcclim enthusiasts around here, I think 14:57:24 hjpark: what are your requirements? 14:57:48 i just look around for future 14:57:51 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181137124.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:58:02 mcclim seems has many features. 14:58:49 i prefer gtk+ in some other language, but in lisp gtk+ binding are not complete 14:58:57 hjpark: gtk-server is also a pretty portable option 14:59:15 hjpark: I always recommend McCLIM, but I am biased. 14:59:34 hjpark: I believe one of the gtk bindings is meant to be pretty good 14:59:42 aerique: is there a cl client for that? 15:00:02 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:00:08 I thought cellsgtk was usable? 15:00:23 i want to use glade xml 15:00:48 -!- replor [n=replor@EM114-48-16-18.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:00:51 I heard good things about lambda-gtk a while back, though I haven't used it myself 15:00:52 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:01:17 beach: is the focus issue with climacs mcclim-related, by the way? 15:01:26 rsynnott: me neither, I took inspiration from the sources on gtk.server.org's "examples"-section 15:01:36 you know, there's many libglade binding for a number of language. 15:01:42 but for lisp is not enough 15:01:48 josemanuel [n=josemanu@38.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:03:05 I believe that the "clg" bindings to gtk are best-of-breed 15:03:07 oh, cells-gtk isn't kenny tilton's? 15:03:27 Krystof: yeah, now i'm trying clg 15:03:50 *rsynnott* was thinking of THIS thing: http://common-lisp.net/project/cello/ 15:04:02 rsynnott: no cl clients for gtk-server afaik, i did come across an abandoned project somewhere on the web 15:04:14 (he seems to have removed the wacky screenshots :( ) 15:04:21 \o/ 15:04:23 lol 15:05:18 -!- ASau is now known as ASau` 15:05:50 -!- fincomus [n=fincomus@vkbdsl.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 15:06:36 jajcloz [n=jaj@pool-98-118-118-197.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:25 rsynott: ah, not that abandoned (2008-01): http://leonardoce.interfree.it/gtkserver/index.html 15:08:29 ikki [n=ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:08:41 The idea of a higher level analogue to the X window system is pretty interesting. 15:09:06 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-158-30.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:09:15 rsynnott: don't stop working on your wxwidgets bindings though :) gtk-server has quite some drawbacks 15:09:41 gdmfsob [n=gdmfsob@94.178.3.136] has joined #lisp 15:10:09 macos compatibility, in particular 15:10:18 that gtk-for-macos thing isn't very good 15:12:17 sykopomp: pretty sure it is. 15:13:10 elderK [n=elderK@203-167-171-48.dialup.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 15:13:13 beach: I think it's worse than that. I think there's a supernatural element. The X11 gods are angry. (I can't figure out why it happens, anyway.) 15:13:14 -!- ths [n=ths@p549AF271.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:26 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:32 hefner: that sounds depressing! 15:13:54 it sounds like a pretty evil and pervasive bug :( 15:14:00 perhaps the Gtk/Qt cultists make ritual sacrifices to the window system gods 15:14:03 maybe if we sacrifice something to it? 15:14:07 or someone. 15:14:18 hefner: you read my mind. Heh. 15:15:14 hjpark: oh, they do 15:15:19 sorry, hefner 15:15:25 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has left #lisp 15:15:57 look at any direct X11 code; there are mysterious little incantations with no clear purpose 15:16:03 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 15:17:47 Had to re-start the #lisp channel, it was approaching 8 MB in text and made my emacs run slow... You'd think computers could handle text these days. 15:17:50 salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has joined #lisp 15:18:40 meingbg: ERC has an option to cut off the buffer at a certain number of characters. 15:19:18 sykopomp: aah. Should've figured that out. 15:20:02 meingbg: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ErcTruncation 15:20:06 -!- _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Operation timed out] 15:20:17 _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:20:22 automatic truncation works quite well here :) 15:20:44 sykopomp: allright, seems like a good idea. 15:22:07 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-250.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:23:18 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 15:23:19 -!- [off] [n=jim@c-24-7-31-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:33 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:23:38 Does anyone know what other language can measure up with lisp's macro system? 15:23:49 meingbg: none, of course. 15:24:05 What a question to ask in a #lisp channel! 15:24:07 meingbg: lisp's macro system is directly dependent on the fact that lisp has regular s-exp based syntax. 15:24:08 meingbg: assembly is more flexible 15:24:53 and since s-exps tend to be one of the common defining characteristics for lisp languages... 15:25:24 These are the kind of answers I expected. How's Ruby and Python doing, for example? Can you even define your own control structures? 15:26:03 -!- rajesh [n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit ["leaving"] 15:26:07 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:13 I'm trying out SWIG for bindings to a big C++ library but I'm starting to think it's a lot of work for little gain. Might as well make the bindings I need myself an skip 80% of the lib. 15:26:29 morning 15:26:32 languages with cheap anonymous blocks allow straightforward implementation of near-arbitrary control structures 15:26:40 you may not end up with the syntax you desire, but the semantics are easy 15:26:44 hi slyrus_ 15:26:50 smalltalk or ruby, for instance 15:27:23 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:28:00 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:12 <_3b> forth's ability to turn the compiler on and off at will seems comparable to lisps macros 15:29:15 aerique: does the library have a sensible C interface? 15:29:17 or juist C++? 15:30:53 rsynott: just C++ 15:31:09 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:26 ah, yep, it generates a C binding and then a CFFI binding in that circumstance? 15:31:45 Krystof: "Cheap anonymous blocks"? 15:32:00 rsynott: yup 15:32:07 <_3b> the vpri cola stuff with inline parser/compiler stuff is another interesting alternative to macros 15:32:20 ah, yep, I gave that a try once and found it pretty unhelpful 15:32:33 if what you want to bind is small enough you may well be better doing it manuall 15:33:06 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:34:16 rsynnott: yeah, that's my problem. initially it'll be small but since it is a big library (ogre3d) it will undoubtedly grow a lot. good thing is the lib's api hasn't changed a lot over the years 15:34:58 have you checked for any existing C bindings? 15:35:08 there often are for much-used C++ libs 15:35:49 rsynnott: there are quite a few for other languages but I'm not convinced the swig approach is a good one 15:36:23 but this is probably my inexperience with swig speaking as well 15:37:00 swig can be okay on C libraries 15:37:18 the C++ thing is nice if it works, but I think it's trying to be a bit too clever 15:38:16 i made some manual c bindings which was trivial and worked on both linux and mingw without many problems. i thought i'd try swig and after that ecl (to sort of bind directly to c++) but they've given me a lot of vague problems.. segfaults everywhere 15:39:49 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has joined #lisp 15:40:02 meingbg: If all you want from macros is to create your own control structures, you can do that fairly easily if you can delay the evaluation of some piece of code, and pass that on to a regular function, say a thunk like (lambda () ...). If in addition, you have "cheap syntax" for that, such as [...], you can write your own control structures as functions, and just call (my-control-structure [...]). 15:40:23 meingbg: however, it is an error to believe that all you want to do with macros is to create your own control structures. 15:40:32 rsynnott: surely the blame mostly lies on c++ sucking for libraries, though? 15:40:34 meingbg: it is really a case of introducing new syntax. 15:41:04 salex: well, or in most languages not having natural FFI to C++ 15:41:26 i.e. most languages, yes. 15:41:32 meingbg: See for instance the `mf' macro in Gsharp, that lets you specify Metafont-like paths like this: (mf p0 -- p1 ++ p2 up (tension 1) ++ p3 ++ left ++ cycle) 15:41:47 things like SWIG then have to generate C go-betweens, greatly increasing the chance of something going wrong 15:41:55 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-66.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:42:26 meingbg: It is very hard to do things like that with only thunks, because you need to modify the environment of the code in the body. 15:42:37 i there anu language that does have a good interface to C++? i think all of the popular ones (python, lua, ruby) depend on swig or their own version of it 15:42:50 meingbg: Does that clarify things a bit more? 15:43:06 aerique: the approach for python, anyway, is sort of the opposite 15:43:10 C++ has a great interface to C++ 15:43:21 you write a C thing which talks to python, rather than the other way round 15:43:46 so a bit easier to incorporate C++ 15:43:55 hefner: so long as you use the same compiler, anyway. 15:43:57 but not as handy as the interface provided by most cls 15:44:17 ah, thanks for that bit of information :) 15:44:18 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.242.65] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 15:44:59 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-112-104.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:45:05 (though maybe python can call C from python now; last time I looked, though, the approach was to make a fake python library IN C) 15:45:14 with lots of scary poking at the memory management system 15:46:29 that's my vague memory too, but could be quite out of date 15:47:16 <_theHAM> ctypes = awesome 15:47:22 I tried talking to the lib directly from CL (finding the mangled name etc) which wasn't much worse than using swig :) ie. it worked somewhat but also segfaults 15:47:45 i'm trying to find the link of someone who wrote a bit more about that 15:48:05 I routinely imagine some kind of embedded foreign code hack that lets me embed C++ expressions into lisp, scraping them all together into functions callable as C and producing/compiling the C++ source code and FFI gunk behind the scenes 15:49:06 -!- elderK [n=elderK@203-167-171-48.dialup.clear.net.nz] has left #lisp 15:50:32 hefner: to what purpose? 15:50:33 I think this could work, but I don't have need for such a thing. Sounds fun, though. 15:50:36 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@127.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:50:45 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 15:50:46 salex: to let me call C++, mostly. 15:50:57 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [] 15:50:59 *aerique* found the link but it is defunct (http://objectmix.com/lisp/316737-c-clos-mapping.html) 15:51:01 ah, i see 15:51:39 -!- vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-0ae58804e02be69b] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:51:55 hefner: cffi-grovel lets you do that with C, it should be easy enough to make it run the C++ compiler instead 15:52:06 oh, it was a comp.lang.lisp conversation: http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2007-12/msg01094.html 15:52:27 hmm, I should look into how that works. 15:53:11 beach: That explains a lot, actually. So the whole thing of needing the [ ] braces in python is because you can't really change syntax, right? 15:53:15 vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-344691732597454f] has joined #lisp 15:53:15 hefner: that's sort of what SWIG's C++ mode does 15:53:25 but it isn't necessarily all that good at it 15:53:30 not invented here! 15:53:40 meingbg: I wouldn't know. I don't know Python that well. 15:54:12 (interestingly, if you have a CL that can produce DLLs, you could write a python library in CL) 15:54:32 very convenient if you want to output roman numerals in Python ;) 15:55:07 beach: OK. I think you clarified this a bit anyhow. 15:55:39 rsynnott: Are you talking Windows systems now? 15:56:15 meingbg: well, DLL, shared object, dynamic lib, whatever you want to call it 15:56:43 rsynnott: So just lib's in general. Does sbcl support that? 15:57:02 no 15:57:03 Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:20 ecl does, and at least one of the commercial ones, though possibly not on all platforms 15:59:46 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #lisp 16:00:19 but it would probably be a slightly perverse thing to do in most circumstances, anyway :) 16:02:08 meingbg: well, just dynamic libs in general; not sure it can produce a .a-analogue 16:03:23 -!- hjpark [n=user@61.109.28.117] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:04:25 I really like ECL's potential of talking to C++: http://paste.lisp.org/display/72244 16:05:26 ""This function has been disabled due to segmentation faults." - heh 16:05:41 8-D 16:06:06 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:28 And I can't for the life of me figure out why. 16:08:17 the same code works if run on its own? 16:08:56 yup 16:09:54 i don't really want to fill up #lisp with this but it also works from a manual C binding but not from a swig binding. 16:10:44 fisxoj [n=fisxoj@149.43.110.1] has joined #lisp 16:12:04 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-4.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:14:56 Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-345272.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:15:44 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:16:24 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:26 Hello everyone. I've a bit weird question to throw. What would one have to know in order to write the code that computes all the possible permutations of an alphabet in lisp ? 16:17:11 <_theHAM> the alphabet. 16:17:20 and how to compute the permutations :) 16:17:25 Beket: and some programming 16:17:30 <_3b> don't forget lisp 16:17:33 Hehehehe 16:17:34 <_theHAM> yep, lisp is key 16:17:37 <_theHAM> :p 16:17:51 I hoped I could get away without lisp :D 16:17:53 Beket: That's not how you solve ITA's palindromic pangram problem ;) 16:18:26 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:18:42 well, you can do it without lisp, Beket , but in many cases that will mean more work ;) 16:19:44 oh, nm, i missed the "... of an alphabet in lisp" part. carry on. 16:19:44 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e70dce4.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:20:24 I'd just like to know in terms of keywords what 'tools' I'd need. That's all. Anyway, I'll just stfu and start writing some actual code. Thanks for reading my noise :) 16:21:48 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:22:22 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:22:49 there was a next-permutation on cll a while ago.. though that might not be completely what you need 16:22:54 Beket: do you mean with 'tools' certain functions from the language or what you need to run lisp? 16:23:12 -!- wedgeV [n=wedgeV@85.31.0.85] has quit [] 16:23:27 Hun: otoh, it's probably worth writing that sort of thing yourself. 16:23:33 true 16:23:48 hum, nevermind 16:23:56 when it's only an alphabet that's doable naively. it gets harder when you need to enumerate a grammar 16:24:05 *aerique* buys some reading comprehension online 16:24:13 Hun: There's also a map-permutations in alexandria 16:24:27 oh cool. i need to look more into alexandria 16:24:31 -!- splittist [n=splittis@88-69.78-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"] 16:24:41 Thanks, I'll have a look at these, If I hit a barrier 16:25:58 -!- V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-febddf00-91.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:27:15 -!- sgarcia is now known as ksergio 16:27:48 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:36 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless78.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:28:38 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless78.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:28:59 -!- trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has left #lisp 16:30:19 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.238] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:30:27 netaust1n [n=austinsm@cpe-98-14-220-121.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:37 -!- Beket [n=stathis@athedsl-345272.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:33:22 willb [n=wibenton@wireless78.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:33:47 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless78.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:34:22 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has left #lisp 16:37:22 V-ille [n=ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-febddf00-91.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:37:31 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:42:08 lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:43:11 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:31 willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless78.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:45:44 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:47:53 knobo pasted "weblocks test: Why are widgets on top of eachother?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72248 16:49:02 The navigation widget and dataform widget are on top of eachother. Why? and how can I fix it? 16:54:38 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-4.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 16:55:11 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-4.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:56:45 -!- bpt_ is now known as bpt 16:57:40 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless78.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:01:40 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-108-81-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 17:05:46 ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has joined #lisp 17:10:33 -!- tayssir [n=user@streamtech.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:11:22 knobo: Are you using the latest version from the mercurial repo? 17:12:11 elderK [n=elderK@218-101-117-230.dialup.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 17:12:14 IIRC older versions did that. 17:12:28 Also, you might want to make the nav widget the outermost, instead of the composite. 17:12:31 rlpowell: Actualy I don't know. I installed it with clbuild 17:12:39 I'll check. 17:12:52 Ah. I don't know anything about how clbuild works, but the weblocks mailing list talks about it a lot. 17:13:15 Why does everybody use clbuild anyways? I've been using asdf and it seems fine? 17:13:25 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:13:31 -!- elderK [n=elderK@218-101-117-230.dialup.clear.net.nz] has left #lisp 17:13:35 rlpowell: what do you mean about "outermost"? 17:13:50 I mean make-main-page should directly make a navigation widget. 17:13:58 *rlpowell* really has to go but will read later. 17:14:26 ok. 17:14:47 elderK [n=elderK@218-101-117-230.dialup.clear.net.nz] has joined #lisp 17:14:58 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:17:00 mulligan [n=user@e178029144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:09 'morning 17:19:42 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=user@222.212.130.144] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:19:57 ths__ [n=ths@X6098.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 I get weblocks from http://www.bitbucket.org/skypher/weblocks-stable/ 17:21:42 -!- ths__ is now known as ths 17:21:43 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 17:22:13 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:41 jlf [n=user@unaffiliated/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:23:52 elurin [n=user@85.99.172.78] has joined #lisp 17:25:38 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host186.190-137-177.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:26:12 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:28:43 -!- missyjane [n=hey@unaffiliated/missyjane] has left #lisp 17:32:45 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:16 saikat [n=saikat@user-12lc4ta.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:01 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:37:20 -!- Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:28 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B827.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:39 nyef [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:48 Hello all. 17:42:50 Tordek [n=tordek@host186.190-137-177.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:44:17 cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has joined #lisp 17:44:49 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 17:47:48 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-4.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 17:48:07 Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has joined #lisp 17:51:53 hi knobo 17:53:37 Hrm... SLIME 2007-11-19 doesn't appear to have anything in the way of a stream that outputs to an emacs buffer... :-/ 17:54:46 SLIME 2007-11-10 is so... 2007. 17:54:56 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:04 nyef: I'm not sure what you mean 17:55:14 knobo: do you have this running somewhere I can access it? 17:55:23 nyef: Perhaps you're looking for (swank::connection.user-output (swank::default-connection)) 17:56:16 which still begs the question of why 2007-11-10... 17:56:28 -!- segv [n=mb@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 17:59:15 hath power been restored up there? 17:59:57 S11001001: nope. 18:00:40 But, I solved it by putting the dataform widget inside a composite widget. I don't understand why that solved it. 18:02:30 div#main-menu div.composite{ margin-left: 16em;} 18:02:30 18:02:45 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:03:23 That's not a very dynamic way of creating a web-page.. 18:04:22 in my own apps I only use suggest.css and dialog.css 18:04:54 -!- elderK [n=elderK@218-101-117-230.dialup.clear.net.nz] has quit [] 18:04:56 how does that make a difference? 18:05:11 I have not looked in to the css files yet. 18:05:30 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-133-170-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 18:06:03 the CSS rule I quoted comes from static rules 18:06:43 the idea is that you can throw together a simple app with a main menu without doing the styling yourself 18:07:11 we only generate HTML and the occasional JS snippet 18:08:31 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:32 |jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:42 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:10:31 finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-102.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 18:12:14 nyef_ [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:14 -!- nyef [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:12:43 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs181137124.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:14:07 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:21 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181137124.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:19:22 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.240.184] has joined #lisp 18:21:08 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:21:50 oudeis_ [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:23:26 -!- vtl [n=user@nat/redhat/x-344691732597454f] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:38 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.240.184] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 18:26:21 -!- netaust1n [n=austinsm@cpe-98-14-220-121.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:32:19 anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has joined #lisp 18:33:17 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178029144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:36:04 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483B827.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:38:27 Good evening. 18:38:36 Hello beach. 18:38:55 hey nyef, what's up? 18:39:29 Still no power at home, so I'm elsewhere trying to get some stuff done. 18:39:49 Typed up my notes for the emulator book I'm writing. 18:39:50 nyef_: I must have missed something. What happened? 18:40:16 Ice storm. 18:40:17 http://www.psnhnews.com/latestnews.cfm?lnid=76 18:40:25 darn! 18:40:39 Yeah, day five of no power at home. 18:40:45 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.241.246] has joined #lisp 18:41:03 That's pretty serious at this time of year in that place. 18:41:17 It could be worse, but it still sucks. 18:42:07 Especially since we're on a well, so we have to bring water in from elsewhere. 18:42:12 no doubt. ice storms are no fun 18:43:57 nyef_: where are you, exactly (like, what town?) 18:44:03 Greenfield. 18:44:08 Well, home is greenfield. 18:44:21 I think I'm sitting in nashua right now. 18:44:36 five days? yikes, that's no fun! 18:45:42 re. emulator book - do you have a publisher? 18:46:07 No, I'm thinking I might just release it online. 18:46:12 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 18:46:18 nyef_: really? That's a bit ridiculous (five days no power) 18:46:19 I also don't know if I'm going to finish it or not. 18:46:26 nyef_: those are not mutually exclusive. 18:48:55 *rsynnott* is suddenly very glad we don't get extreme weather here 18:49:14 where is "here"? 18:49:23 Ireland, is it? 18:49:24 (last power cuts of any size were 20 years ago, due to striking power company employees) 18:49:27 yep 18:49:30 rsynnott: we had that in the summer (no power no water) here this year too, post hurricane 18:49:35 which also sucked 18:49:50 but i think winter is worse 18:50:09 at least the current ice storm looks better than '98 was, so that's something 18:50:12 segv [n=mb@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:19 those power cables should be under ground these days. 18:50:31 we did have brief powercuts two years ago, in summer, due to overuse of air conditioning 18:50:31 hope you get power back soon nyef_ ! 18:50:33 We have had the technology for decades now. 18:50:47 beach: yeah, that doesn't actually solve the problem if it's bad enough 18:50:49 (which was annoying; did not have UPS on most servers at work at the time...) 18:51:15 beach: I believe buring EHT lines is still problematic 18:51:26 *burying 18:51:26 salex: In terms of restoration, maybe. But in terms of total people without power at its peak, apparently this is more than three times as bad. 18:51:29 salex: It might solve the ice storm problem, which is currently affecting eastern France just the same way it seems to affect New England. 18:51:30 but local power, absolutely 18:51:40 nyef_: US numbers maybe? 18:51:45 worst of that hit Canada 18:51:48 Yeah, US numbers. 18:51:51 Ouch. 18:52:04 In fact, NH numbers. 18:52:10 right, but restoration is going much better 18:52:21 They're pulling crews from places like Ohio. 18:52:22 in parts of rural quebec, it was 2 months iirc 18:52:27 (of course, they were better sorted for it) 18:52:31 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:53:02 but what i really meant is that the weather has been more cooperative than it was then 18:53:21 i heard you've got crews from ON and Quebec too, who've had practice with this :) 18:53:27 hopefully it gets sorted out soon 18:53:42 though current predictions are we'll have serious generation capacity problems by 2010; building power plants seems to have become politically impossible... 18:56:54 Heh. One SMS doc I have here says, of ports $DE and $DF, "Some games appear to read and write from/to these ports, for reasons which are as yet unknown." 18:57:40 Modred [n=modred@cpe-76-184-107-83.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:11 Hehe. Was that a 6502 or 6809 inside? 18:58:22 oh, dear 18:58:29 Turns out that some hardware in the same family has an 8255 on those ports (or all hardware does but most of the functionality isn't used on the SMS). 18:58:36 The SMS was a Z80. 18:58:42 Oh. 19:00:03 yep, early games console programming seems to have been a bit hacky 19:00:18 More than a bit, sometimes. 19:00:58 I seem to remember reading that in one of the systems some games relied on using a non-existent instruction which happened to do two things at once 19:01:34 Yeah, there are a few tricks like that. 19:01:35 rsynnott: classic 6502 programming ;) 19:01:56 Upgrading some systems from a 6502 to a 65c02 would break some software because of it. 19:02:18 and don't forget interleaving to optimize for drum memory rotation ;) 19:02:53 If you're interested in that sort of 6502 hack, -the- document is called "64doc", and is, if memory serves, associated with the VICE project. 19:03:37 salex: well, not in a games console, hopefully 19:03:44 unless it was a very big noisy one :) 19:03:46 true enough 19:03:54 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 19:06:13 like a blackjack player 19:08:30 -!- Modred [n=modred@cpe-76-184-107-83.tx.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 19:10:38 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:57 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:15:17 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.241.246] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 19:19:07 -!- willb1 [n=wibenton@wireless78.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:20:08 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 19:22:13 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.245.24] has joined #lisp 19:27:34 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:29:06 beach: clim rocks! 19:29:31 davazp [n=user@49.Red-83-49-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:11 -!- oudeis_ [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:32:20 -!- GrayMagiker [n=Twilight@75-173-1-137.albq.qwest.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 19:32:43 statements like that are traditionally accompanied by fascinating screenshots 19:33:03 willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:10 ejs [n=eugen@77-109-30-65.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:34:18 slyrus_: I know! What makes you say so this time? 19:35:27 -!- hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442397.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 19:35:45 oh, I just discovered that I can scrap my own coordinate/pixel conversion and let clim do the work for me 19:36:22 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:27 Yeah, that can come in handy from time to time. 19:36:55 hard to screen shot though, to be fair :) 19:36:55 -!- nyef_ [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:37:04 nyef_ [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:55 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-e4ce768651bb5656] has joined #lisp 19:39:59 hefner: http://www2.cyrusharmon.org/chemicl-draw.png 19:40:27 now I get to figure out how to tie UI elements like scrollbars up to that coordinate transformation mechanism so I can scroll/zoom properly 19:40:32 and what does it look like with your own conversion ? ;) 19:40:35 ooh, that's nice 19:40:45 (though the fonts are a little mad :) ) 19:40:47 slyrus_: looks very nice! 19:41:21 thanks madnificent 19:41:28 hmm, neat. 19:41:44 Cool! Are you going to do a version that renders the molecules in 3d? 19:41:45 salex: no, I scrapped my conversion. it doesn't really look any different, but the code looks cleaner :) 19:42:00 nyef_: not any time soon. would be nice though! 19:42:15 slyrus: how do you achieve that antialiased goodness? 19:42:38 slyrus_: erm, that was my point. nm, it wasn't actually funny. 19:42:45 hefnr: clim-gtkairo, I think 19:42:53 salex: oh, sorry :) 19:43:17 oh! I thought that was clx/pixie, but it looked slightly off. 19:43:23 http://rafb.net/p/R9qMlt88.html 19:43:25 woot woot 19:43:58 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:44:24 vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:45:12 your own reader? 19:45:35 slyrus_: scrolling should "just work". 19:45:51 (TM) 19:46:11 dcrawford: So far 19:46:16 yeah, and for zooming, it might be good enough to change the sheet transformation. 19:46:19 beach: vertical scrolling does. not sure how to get a horizontal scrollbar, but it's probably trivial. i'm learning clim as I go :) 19:46:25 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-122.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:46:47 isn't that the canonical way to learn it? 19:46:47 Glad you like it so fare. 19:46:50 *far 19:46:58 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:47:12 Anyway, I'm off. Nice screen shots, slyrus_! 19:47:24 beach: Have a good evening. 19:47:37 thanks beach! 19:47:52 salex: yeah, I guess so :) 19:50:45 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-133-122.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:53 hefner pasted "drag and pan scrolling (from my secret stash)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/72255 19:52:55 -!- cpc26 [n=cpc26@72.170.156.242] has quit [] 19:54:17 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #lisp 19:54:40 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-142-32.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:56 hefner: that looks useful. thanks! 19:55:21 ironyCurtain [n=ironyCur@c-24-18-230-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:50 hefner: why secret? 19:55:58 sounds like a useful stash :) 19:56:04 -!- kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:56:22 -!- HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:56:32 hefner: don't bogart that code! :) 19:57:14 random: I suspect the worst thing about edit-compile-test is the way it facilitates wasting time 19:57:16 love the comment at defclass :) 19:58:16 heh. the ancestors said "ball of mud" to be polite about it .... 19:58:35 salex: xkcd.com/303 19:58:59 ayup 19:59:23 light saber practice is never a waste of time :P 19:59:28 i don't even have anyone to fence with today 20:00:07 milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.131] has joined #lisp 20:00:16 unfortunately, there isn't much that can help with 45 minute long tests. 20:00:48 clhs with-restart 20:00:53 clhs with-simple-restart 20:00:57 Hrm... 20:01:05 Clearly, I'm not thinking straight... 20:01:12 with-bigger-hammer 20:01:27 Yeah, something like that. 20:01:45 I'm trying to get sb-usb (possibly in need of renaming) ready for an initial release. 20:02:05 Ah! 20:02:20 pkhuong: yup. even worse, i've got 2.5 hour builds and 2 hour tests at the moment 20:02:31 No specbot would explain it. 20:02:36 which is fine, 'cause you can get something done in 2 hours 20:03:15 but if you break a little bit, build+test for 8min lather-rinse-repeat, you waste a bunch of time 20:03:19 you know, on irc ;) 20:03:26 Ah, damn. Restart designators are symbols, not strings. 20:03:48 8 min should be just enough time to get a fresh cup of tea. 20:04:01 salex: 2.5 hour build?! 20:04:06 yeah. after you've done that 12 times though, you really have to stop 20:04:07 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:04:18 rsynnott: yup. about 7gb of data afterwards 20:04:25 ouch 20:04:27 .o's and libs i mean 20:04:47 and that's make -j 4 ! :) 20:04:50 *rsynnott* thought that 10 minutes was mildly annoying 20:05:02 it's a big system 20:05:14 if it's a four processor machine, -j 5 might be a little better 20:05:25 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:05:27 yeah, but i'm using the machine too. it's a balance 20:05:37 actually, right now, its -j2 on a different (2 core) machine 20:05:46 but usually i use another 20:06:05 anywayh, whinge whinge whinge 20:06:23 _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:54 kejsaren [n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:11 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:08:59 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@129.71.215.161] has quit [] 20:10:35 HET2 [n=diman@chello084114161225.3.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:11:15 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:11:31 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5b8e.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:31 disumu [n=disumu@p57A2542A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:33 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21:59 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 20:22:16 -!- finis [n=mkr@dh207-78-102.xnet.hr] has quit ["..."] 20:23:53 -!- rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["leaving"] 20:24:19 rotty [n=rotty@chello084114192192.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:26:47 tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 20:27:06 ooh. the postscript backend is nice. is there a way to generate pdf instead of ps? and is there a similar png backend? :) 20:29:17 sellout- [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:31:15 slyrus_: pipe it through ps2pdf if it doesn't exist natively 20:31:53 madnificent: bah! 20:32:02 neither such backends exist. 20:32:57 minion: chant 20:32:58 MORE BACKENDS 20:33:07 MORE BETTER BACKENDS 20:33:42 minion: chant 20:33:43 MORE BETTER BACKENDS 20:34:13 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0D0A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:54 minion: chant to dcrawford 20:35:55 dcrawford: MORE BETTER BACKENDS 20:36:34 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:36:45 tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 20:36:51 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.245.24] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 20:37:17 minion: chant minion chant loop to minion 20:37:17 minion: MORE BETTER BACKENDS 20:37:49 nyef__ [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:49 -!- nyef_ [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:37:54 -!- nyef__ is now known as nyef 20:38:13 when beach finishes the framebuffer backend, I'm sure some good samaritan will immediately bolt it to a png writer 20:38:48 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.182.239] has joined #lisp 20:40:39 hefnr: that panning pane is nice! it just needs to be tied up to a modifier key and to have a little panning hand appear :) 20:40:43 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:41:06 Jarvellis [n=jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:44:06 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-4.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:45:17 my inner cynic says that clim will make that harder than it needs to be 20:45:52 <_8david> you're rendering to a cairo medium already? pdf and png output should be a one-line change away then. 20:46:23 *hefnr* wonders if gtkairo implements the cursor change stuff 20:46:24 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs181137124.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:46:32 is cairo vector based? 20:46:40 but the outer cynic is always cynical of the inner cynic 20:46:58 <_8david> cairo is all-out vector goodness. Just like cl-vectors, only faster :-) 20:47:10 jollygood [n=jollygoo@64.127.29.59] has joined #lisp 20:47:27 last I heard, the cairo medium was pretty slow :) 20:47:32 somewhat like display-ps/display-pdf then? 20:47:42 <_8david> cursor stuff? No, I don't think so. 20:47:54 *salex* only has the vagues recollection of cairo progject 20:48:00 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 20:48:14 <_8david> oh, the cairo medium stinks. But I think that gtkairo's fault. cairo itself must be pretty fast, considering that firefox renders everything using cairo afaik 20:48:15 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181137124.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:48:20 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181137124.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 20:49:42 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 20:49:56 -!- H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0D0A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 20:50:12 what's the latest fully working sbcl for windows? 20:50:40 H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0D0A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:19 1.0.22 is marked as port in progress. 20:51:37 leo2007: the port of sbcl to windows is indeed ``in progress''. 20:52:12 slyrus_: I've given your request a thorough 5-minute analysis, and decided it is indeed too hard. 20:52:33 although if you use clx, the cursor does indeed change shapes while you're dragging. 20:52:51 pkhuong: you mean for all versions? 20:52:54 -!- H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D0B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:52:56 `in progress' is such a wonderfully flexible terminology, isn't it? 20:53:00 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.182.239] has quit ["Leaving..."] 20:53:10 leo2007: yes. 20:53:27 incidentally, this is exactly the sort of thing when I mean that the clim input loop / read-gesture disaster is, well, a disaster 20:53:28 -!- gdmfsob [n=gdmfsob@94.178.3.136] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:54:12 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:54:48 My linux server has Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.80GHz, which version of sbcl to download x86 or x86_64? 20:55:20 leo2007: not enough data. x86 will probably work. 20:55:35 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:56:00 <_8david> there's a panning pane? 20:56:00 -!- nyef [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:56:03 nyef [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:09 leo2007: see what 'uname -m' says. 20:56:19 _8david: sure, I pasted one just a bit ago 20:57:10 <_8david> clim frame-input-context-button-press-handler 20:57:34 -!- ironyCurtain [n=ironyCur@c-24-18-230-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:58:39 "I see no specbot here." 21:01:19 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:24 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 21:01:25 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 21:01:31 another day another lambda 21:01:37 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:42 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:46 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:54 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:02:12 nyef: panacea to the rescue! 21:05:40 milanj- [n=milan@77.46.250.147] has joined #lisp 21:08:13 milan [n=milan@79.101.197.139] has joined #lisp 21:08:15 any idea what does bridge.el in slime do? 21:10:49 -!- H4ns2 [n=hans@p57A0D0A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11:32 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:12 Soulman [n=kvirc@138.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:19 -!- milanj- [n=milan@77.46.250.147] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:13:48 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:30 ironyCurtain [n=ironyCur@c-24-18-230-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:55 Okay, time for me to head home. 21:14:59 I'll be back when I can. 21:15:09 -!- nyef [n=nyef@static-64-223-188-248.man.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Ice storms suck."] 21:15:38 -!- chrisdone [n=user@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has quit ["kernel updates"] 21:15:50 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb5b8e.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:16:58 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:18:09 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:19:20 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-142-32.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:19:21 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:20:11 DrFruitCase [i=DrFruitC@gateway/tor/x-089e6bd3ba82f1f8] has joined #lisp 21:20:28 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 21:20:44 DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 21:20:44 -DrFruitCase:#lisp- DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 21:20:44 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:44 -DrFruitCase:#lisp- NickServ - Someone has sent you a memo, to read it you have to type: /server quote memoserv list 21:20:44 antifuchs chandler _3b _8david _ace4016_ _theHAM ``Erik Aankhen`` abeaumont abend ace4016 adeht Adrinael agemo ahaas Aisling Aji-Dahaka akhilleus aking albino alpheus andrerav andrewy anryx antoszka arbscht_ ASau Ashy athos authentic azuk 21:20:44 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:20:44 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:44 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:20:44 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:20:46 b4|hraban Balooga Balooga_ bartiosze bdowning beach benny bfein billstclair bob_f bobrown bohanlon bombshelter13 borism_ bougyman boyscared bpt BrianRice Bucciarati Buganini ccl-logbot Cel cemerick chii cky clog cmatei cmm cods colouragga 21:21:01 -!- randomwalker [n=me@cpe-70-116-29-132.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:21:06 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:10 what in the world do you want? 21:21:19 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 21:21:20 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-78-3.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:21:23 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 21:21:24 tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 21:21:26 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:34 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:39 which reads as: what the fuck do you want? 21:21:45 cracki CrazyEddy c|mell daniel dash_ davazp dcrawford deepfire defn deximer dfox disumu djinni` djkthx dlowe dmiles dostoyevsky Draggor drewc DrForr DrFruitCase dto dublpaws e271 ebzzry ecraven eirik ejs Eleanore elurin 21:21:45 emma eno Eno_ envi^home erg esden Fade fe[nl]ix felipe fisxoj fnordus foom free_tinker froydnj fusss gaja galdor Ginei_Morioka gonzojive_ guenther1_ Guest53748 gz H4ns1 haiwei hefner hefnr herbieB HET2 hkBst housel 21:21:45 Hun ia ianmcorvidae ikki ineiros ironyCurtain j_king jajcloz Jarvellis jgracin jjong jkantz jlf joga jogla johs jollygood jollygood_______ josemanuel jrockway jsnell JuanDaugherty keithr kejsaren Khisanth kidd kidd1 kleppari kmkaplan knobo 21:21:46 koning_r1bot kpreid kreuter Krystof ksergio kuhzoo kuwabara kzar l3dx l4ndfo l_a_m larstobi lasts lemoinem leo2007 LiamH lisppaste lnostdal lnxz locklace ltbarcly lucca luis lyte madnificent manic12_ manuel_ maskd matimago mattrepl 21:21:48 oh, crud 21:21:50 307 beeps ? 21:21:53 full channel ban list 21:21:56 V_V 21:22:02 cookies, anyone? 21:22:08 yeah 21:22:09 maxote mbac mcxx mehrheit meingbg merlincorey mgr michaelw mikezor milan milanj minion mishok13 moesenle moghar mogunus mornfall mqt mr_uggla mrsolo mtd mueslisc1nitte mvilleneuve nasloc__ nikodemus njsg NoorDextor nullwork O_4 Odin- 21:22:09 hi :) 21:22:10 olejorge1b p8m p_l PanGoat Partyzan1 patmatch Patzy pchrist pchrist|univ phadthai pierre_thierry PissedNumlock pjb pkhuong pok pon][ postamar pragma_ prip qebab Quadrescence r0bby randomwalker rdd replaca retupmoca rey_ Riastradh rindolf rlpowell 21:22:10 robyonrails rotty rpg rread rsynnott rtoym rumbleca S11001001 sad0ur saikat salex sbok schme_ schoppenhauer scode segv sellout- simonb sjbach slyrus slyrus_ sohail Soulman Soulmann specbot spiaggia spiderbyte srcerer Starsie stassats 21:22:10 Is he trying to trigger some bots? 21:22:11 sykopomp tarbo tcr TDT technik tessier tessier_ Thas thijso ths tic tltstc tmh tompa Tordek Tristam tsuru turbo24prg V-ille vcgomes VityokOrgUa vorian vsync vtl wasabi_____ weirdo willb wlr wolfboy22 Wombat2 21:22:12 -!- anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:22:14 xan Xof xristos yahooooo yango z0d zbigniew |jeremiah 21:22:16 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*n=mobile@*.hsd1.va.comcast.net 21:22:19 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:22:25 DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 21:22:25 -DrFruitCase:#lisp- DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 21:22:25 -DrFruitCase:#lisp- NickServ - Someone has sent you a memo, to read it you have to type: /server quote memoserv list 21:22:26 -!- tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:22:26 -!- tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:22:26 -!- BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:22:26 antifuchs chandler Krystof _3b _8david _ace4016_ _theHAM ``Erik Aankhen`` abeaumont abend adeht Adrinael agemo ahaas Aisling Aji-Dahaka akhilleus aking albino alpheus andrerav andrewy anryx antoszka arbscht_ ASau Ashy athos authentic azuk 21:22:26 Thanks, Krystof 21:22:29 but I don't have right now :) 21:22:30 b4|hraban Balooga Balooga_ bartiosze bdowning beach benny bfein billstclair bob_f bobrown bohanlon bombshelter13 borism_ bougyman boyscared bpt BrianRice Bucciarati Buganini ccl-logbot Cel cemerick chii chris2 cky clog cmatei cmm cods 21:22:32 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*@gateway/tor/x-089e6bd3ba82f1f8 21:22:34 +time 21:22:34 He needs to be kicked. 21:22:35 sheesh 21:22:36 anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has joined #lisp 21:22:39 sorry 21:22:42 wat 21:22:42 wlr_ [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:44 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:22:44 He's not DCCing various people now 21:22:46 any time now.. Krystof 21:22:48 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:48 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:23:00 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has been kicked from #lisp 21:23:05 tessier_ [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #lisp 21:23:13 BrianRice [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-246.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:17 tmh [n=thomas@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:23:22 -!- ironyCurtain [n=ironyCur@c-24-18-230-241.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:23:28 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*i=jpthing@*.customer.alfanett.no 21:23:29 oh, an angry php hacker again 21:23:32 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:41 php hacker 21:23:41 maybe it'd have worked better if he didn't do the dcc in a standard privmsg... tststs 21:23:50 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*n=Jey@195.46.100.* 21:23:53 Krystof: What was his IP address, gonna ban him from #macosx before he heads there. 21:23:55 he's memoserv'd too 21:23:56 thing is, with a graphical client like xchat, that brings your attention to the channel under attack 21:23:58 TDT: tor 21:24:03 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!n=godzai@72.16.221.* 21:24:08 dang, well that makes it worse 21:24:08 i am always amused that the word STARTKEYLOGGER causes people's irc connections to die 21:24:09 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!n=IranianC@217.219.7.* 21:24:14 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has left #lisp 21:24:16 esdentem [n=esden@91-67-156-166-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:24:25 grr....I hate it when people do that. 21:24:28 DrFruitCase (i=DrFruitC@gateway/tor/x-089e6bd3ba82f1f8) has joined #Lisp 21:24:37 was all i got 21:24:53 why does someone identify for stuff like this? 21:24:58 jrockway: ?? 21:24:59 did someone DCC me a file? oooh, a free program for me to run! 21:25:09 free software is the best kind 21:25:11 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:25:12 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:25:22 -!- esden [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:31 -!- dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:25:46 HET2: some firewalls kill any TCP connections that contain the string 21:25:48 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.187.131] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:50 "dcc send startkeylogger" 21:25:51 gah 21:25:52 What's hilarious is that what he tried to DCC was a keylogger, at least that was the name, which is really funny 21:25:53 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:08 -!- esdentem is now known as esden 21:26:10 it is a standard way to get people's connections to die 21:26:18 he is just being a jackass 21:26:20 dcrawford [n=dcrawfor@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:22 hmm... are there worms using tor yet? 21:26:24 not trying to "hack" anyone 21:26:30 probably 21:26:31 ... me stupid .. :( 21:26:40 that is why tor blocks port 25, or rather, most tor nodes do 21:27:03 all current botnet worms i know of just use their own encryption thingy over base tcp or http. don't know any using tor yet 21:27:16 would be pretty cool, as you could penetrate firewalls that way 21:28:03 wear your white hats, hackers! 21:28:09 Hmm, either I need to take the time to configure my IRC client or go back to RCIRC. 21:28:37 wasn't there a rootkit that had a full blown lisp vm for a kernel? 21:28:45 mozvm 21:28:56 some firewalls and some routers 21:29:03 -!- _ace4016_ [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:29:04 fusss: You can still get the sources. 21:29:06 Again for day crew: Is remove-duplicates allowed to assume that the :test is transitive? 21:29:42 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:09 mozvm, looks like an x86 opcode 21:30:32 was there? that's awesome. 21:30:59 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs181229041.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:32:06 you don't know of anyone that has a working sample of rustock.c, do you? 21:32:32 i have it 21:32:36 somewhere 21:33:47 *fusss* goes to startup the malserver 21:33:59 -!- hefnr [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:35:54 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 21:37:50 dcc send startmalserver 21:39:13 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:39:51 it's in an 8gig DVD rip, stuff i bought in thailand. should be somewhere on vxheavens as well 21:40:23 no, rustock.c ain't 21:40:24 -!- Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 21:40:30 Hun [n=Hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:31 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-183-101-69.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:35 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A2542A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 21:40:53 of it there's only a crypted sample available, which does not run in vmware 21:41:34 yakov_ [n=yakov__@95-28-185-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:42:01 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-252-4.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 21:43:08 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:45:17 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.195.113] has joined #lisp 21:48:11 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@ip68-98-133-128.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 21:52:29 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:53:08 never mind, allot of work. combining rar files and dealing with crap parts. google it :-P 21:55:00 if that'd have worked, i wouldn't ask ;) 21:55:13 i only get crypted samples from there 21:56:19 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:56:27 whatever 21:57:29 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 21:58:00 phf [n=phf@c-98-231-150-21.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:32 -!- bartiosze [i=bartiosz@nintendos.pl] has left #lisp 22:02:27 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"] 22:05:39 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:06:54 -!- jollygood [n=jollygoo@64.127.29.59] has quit [] 22:06:56 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:18 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:08:25 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:09:51 hefnr [n=hefner@c-69-140-128-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:20 -!- robyonrails [n=roby@host211-200-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Sto andando via"] 22:12:16 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-34.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:13:09 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:20 -!- phf [n=phf@c-98-231-150-21.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 22:15:01 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:11 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:15:58 -!- davazp [n=user@49.Red-83-49-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:17:13 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["Out for a drink"] 22:17:53 fusss [n=chatzill@ip70-187-234-43.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:20 hmmm. hate to ask an offtopic question, but can someone tell me if this is kludgy? 22:18:29 -!- srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:18:52 -!- salex [n=user@216.80.143.240] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:19:05 i have a proprietary database that has no way to connect to the outside world, except using its own gui tool (this is a client restriction, not a database restriction; they don't wanna upgrade to the network version for some reason) 22:19:37 it can, however, use mysql ODBC on the same host as a datasource, both read/write. the mysql database can also use it, read/write. 22:20:00 dodoavis [n=dodoavis@88-149-209-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 22:20:30 i need to have another mysql on a linux box talk to the proprietary database. is it ugly if i put the proprietary database and win32 mysql, and use the win32 mysql as some kind of bridge to reach out to the linux box? 22:20:44 who the hell uses a database as a router? 22:21:20 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77-109-30-65.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:21:29 fusss: I think it's beautiful. Beautiful in the sense of "they made it so it wouldn't work, but they couldn't get me." 22:21:57 what i really need to do is write an ODBC query dispatcher than listens on a socket on the windows box and translates the mysql queries to odbc and funnels them to the custom db, and does the reverse. but no time right now. 22:22:14 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:22:20 -!- dodoavis [n=dodoavis@88-149-209-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has left #lisp 22:23:17 dunno 22:23:23 fusss: If you could use Postgres, you could probably write pgsql code to do that. 22:23:47 fusss: What exactly can you connect to? Just mysql, or any odbc on localhost? 22:23:55 i can use postgres, there is no mysql requirement .. BUT, the proprietary db only groks mysqlese 22:24:34 "any" ODBC on localhost so long as that odbc data source is the same database. what sort of portability is that? 22:25:07 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:25:13 i mean, so long as they're both FileMaker 22:26:16 suicide is not the answer. 22:26:34 fusss: he's right, there's gotta be another solution. 22:26:54 take it easy, it's just a neck tie 22:27:13 albeit a braided one 22:29:01 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:29:57 fusss: I have no clue about Filemaker, but do I understand you right - this program is happy to connecto to any odbc source on localhost and send perfect mysql code to operate on it? 22:30:05 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:53 no, it can read and write to a mysql database 22:31:24 i haven't figured out if mysql can do the same to it 22:32:53 -!- moghar [n=user@unaffiliated/moghar] has left #lisp 22:32:53 srcerer [n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:00 they're gonna have to get an Advanced/Developer license methinks. 22:33:09 thanks for listening :-) 22:33:30 no problem. now untie your necktie, would you? 22:34:08 http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Java/comp.lang.java.databases/2003-11/0042.html 22:36:07 slash__ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:42 fusss: Ok, that's not good PR for FM. 22:38:15 -!- segv [n=mb@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:39:33 -!- jkantz [n=jkantz@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:45 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #lisp 22:41:42 like Cartman says, "don't stifle ma creativitaa" 22:43:09 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:27 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 22:48:54 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:50:08 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 22:51:54 -!- yakov_ [n=yakov__@95-28-185-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:52:34 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:52:55 -!- slash__ is now known as slash_ 22:52:58 -!- Aankhen`` [n=Aankhen@122.162.224.129] has quit ["Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.  Albert Einstein"] 22:53:41 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:26 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:58:02 KucukMubasir [n=Halliday@unaffiliated/kucukmubasir] has joined #lisp 22:58:30 do you think XPATH2.0 reminds of Lisp ? 22:58:51 especially the sequence structure 22:58:58 ok off to the lisp-nyc holiday social!! 22:59:02 (http://www.lispnyc.org/home.clp) 23:00:21 *schme_* googles the xpath2.0 23:00:51 KucukMubasir: I'm sorry, I can't read all of that. How does it remind one of lisp? 23:01:13 http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/03/20/xpath2.html 23:01:29 "For example, this expression, (2, 4, (1,2,3), 6) evaluates to exactly the same sequence as this expression, (2, 4, 1, 2, 3, 6) or this expression, for that matter, ( (((2))), (4,1,2,3,(6)) )" 23:01:31 -!- Eno_ [n=anon@67.76.215.49] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:01:55 ok.. 23:02:02 The designers of XPATH 2, many of whom are experts in/designers of functional programming languages, certainly understand Lisp 23:02:05 and how on earth does that remind one of lisp? 23:02:23 !paste 23:03:04 Phoodus [i=foo@ip68-231-38-131.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:18 minion: lisppaste 23:03:19 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 23:03:34 housel: , for instance this http://codepad.org/v0E0k3c7 23:03:36 "You cannot have a sequence of sequences. If you try to nest a sequence within a sequence, which is quite possible syntactically, you'll get a "flattened" sequence with the members of the sub-sequence included alongside the members of the containing sequence." 23:03:43 That does not remind me of any lisp I know. 23:04:23 Erlang does that sort of thing when dealing with lists of IO bytes; you can nest things for your own organization, and it'll all end up flat on the wire 23:04:42 but yeah, doesn't remind me of any lisp either 23:05:10 Maybe it's the ()'s 23:05:37 what does flattened sequence mean btw? 23:05:41 reminds me of perl 23:05:55 It means that (foo bar (foo bar)) == (foo bar foo bar) 23:05:58 crod [n=cmell@d288be-124.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:06:25 variable arglist lengths are for wusses anyway 23:07:00 it's fixed arity or broken arity 23:07:05 instead of (foo . (bar . (foo bar))) 23:07:09 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@cb8aa0-056.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:07:14 Hmm maybe I lag. 23:07:22 eeh. 23:07:32 Well that's wrong, nevermind :D 23:08:02 KucukMubasir: So except the missing ()'s 23:08:22 KucukMubasir: I have no idea how it reminds you of lisp, I'll assume I'm too dumb and go to bed. g'night. 23:09:35 -!- pjb [n=t@81-66-196-92.rev.numericable.fr] has left #lisp 23:10:10 thanks schme_ 23:10:48 I think , I got a wrong impression with compassing structures, which looks like functional languages 23:10:58 *encompassing 23:11:11 sorry for bothering you. thanks again. 23:11:16 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:13:03 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #lisp 23:13:23 -!- Eleanore [n=a@ip215131.lbinternet.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13:24 ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.77.226] has joined #lisp 23:13:28 -!- vtl [n=user@r10ni46.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:48 KucukMubasir: You're not bothering :) It's nice with some lisp related talk anyway. Beats all the sql stuff :) 23:15:06 KucukMubasir: Though the lisp we talk here is not strictly a functional language (: 23:15:10 Now I go to bed anyway! 23:15:23 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit ["Valete!"] 23:15:53 -!- ebzzry [n=rmm@124.217.80.232] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:18:24 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:18:39 maodun [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:55 -!- milan [n=milan@79.101.197.139] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:19:10 segv [n=mb@72-255-2-115.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:48 -!- ebzzry_ [n=rmm@124.217.77.226] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:22:56 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-209-20.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 23:23:50 cipher [n=cipher@pool-98-118-51-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:33 KucukMubasir: turkman? 23:25:07 turkish guy :) 23:25:39 merhaba! many turkish lispers around :-) 23:25:52 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:26:19 it is good to see that, there are clever people in turkey as well :P 23:27:49 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 23:28:56 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 23:29:45 -!- segv [n=mb@72-255-2-115.client.stsn.net] has quit [] 23:30:13 I'm confused. What did this DCC send thing do, again? 23:30:18 -!- anryx [n=anryx@213.210.175.188.adsl.nextra.cz] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:31:46 sykopomp: nothing except trigger people's stupid firewalls to disconnect them from IRC 23:31:48 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-69-254-76-231.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:24 it wasn't an actual dcc send request, it was just a minimal amount of text to trigger a firewall rule 23:33:43 bizarre 23:34:32 nicolas__ [n=nicolas@inv75-2-82-225-243-109.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:37 antgreen1 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:53 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-84-42.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:36:21 it's real old... http://it.slashdot.org/it/06/03/03/004215.shtml 23:37:51 hahaha norton 23:40:18 antgreen2 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:16 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:43:06 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:14 -!- froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45:24 froog [n=user@81-234-149-249-no94.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:57 What's a good portable networking library that covers ECL and SBCL? 23:46:57 socket level networking? higher? lover? 23:47:06 oh, yeah socket 23:47:08 s/lover/lower/g darnit 23:47:25 I don't think we need UDP 23:47:32 Phoodus: http://common-lisp.net/projects/usocket/ 23:48:09 +1 usocket (dunno about ecl support) 23:48:20 locklace: thanks. It's hard to tell just from google what's current or been obsoleted 23:48:23 (incf usocket) 23:48:45 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-228-143.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["Where is the glory in complying with demands?"] 23:48:49 Phoodus: Have you tried browsing around cliki? Usually some clicking around and reading of MLs can give a good sign. 23:48:51 fusss: ECL's on the list 23:49:17 sykopomp: yes I have 23:49:22 Phoodus: but I agree, it should be a little clearer what's active and what's not. Cliki isn't very helpful in that respect. There's a lot of old, abandoned crud in there. 23:49:33 weren't there some plans to clean up cliki? 23:49:35 and given pages of this size, it's much easier to ask :) http://www.cliki.net/networking 23:50:17 Eno_ [n=anon@67.76.215.49] has joined #lisp 23:50:46 Phoodus: there's only 4 socket related entries there. IOLib is good, and trivial sockets tells you to look at usocket. 23:51:09 s/4/5/ 23:52:21 rottcodd_ [n=user@ppp59-167-54-88.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:47 Modred [n=modred@cpe-76-184-107-83.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:38 -!- rottcodd_ is now known as rottcodd 23:53:41 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:55:21 -!- antgreen1 [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:56:32 -!- _8david [n=user@port-83-236-3-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 23:57:37 Is it like I believe, that writing s/wrong/right/ is just jargong, or is there a utility that actually uses it? 23:58:24 meingbg: sed