00:00:21 -!- dabd [n=dabd@85.139.104.119] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:43 Hunh. Looking at Linux IDEs, and I notice that KDevelop runs gdb in a pipe for debugging... And emacs does something similar, and so does dev-c++... And it seems like half these links are dead, so I'm disinclined to look much further. 00:02:53 But everything seems based on gdb. 00:04:18 you have a problem with that? 00:04:18 what i always wanted was the borland c IDE in dosemu (: 00:04:37 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-98-175.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:05:00 antifuchs: i wonder how that'd work on a program that switches to pmode or long mode. 00:05:06 housel: Yeah, I don't like gdb. 00:05:12 pkhuong: it probably would not (: 00:05:34 -!- gcv [n=gcv@ool-4572f4ca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 00:05:35 And it's essentially a fragile interface, as they all talk to the gdb command line via a pipe. 00:06:30 gdb is made of fragile interfaces, it seems 00:06:59 many use the gdb MI (Machine Interface) 00:07:03 which is less fragile 00:07:42 -!- Soulman [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:51 Soulman [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:09 I'm still generally underwhelmed, though. 00:10:32 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:11:05 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:12:06 Turbo/Borland C++ in DOS (and Turbo Pascal too) are the only IDEs I ever really liked. 00:12:16 right. 00:12:31 (well, slime isn't too shabby, either) (: 00:12:34 Turbo Pascal was pretty cool. 00:13:18 QuickBasic wasn't pretty good too; the stunts we had to go through for asm not so much, but not too bad either. 00:13:23 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:01 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@d288be-077.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:15:16 I suppose I should endorse Turbo Basic now. 00:15:41 jestocost [n=cmell@d288be-077.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:17:00 -!- dash__ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-048-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:18:13 *was pretty good, that is (: 00:19:33 dash_ [n=dash@dslb-084-057-032-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:38 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@68-116-203-246.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [] 00:19:54 pkhuong: didn't it do some obnoxious checking where you couldn't temporarily cursor away in the middle of typing something without it complaining about a syntax error? 00:22:09 ... Okay, having looked at some documentation for the gdb MI interface, I'm definately underwhelmed. 00:22:10 hefner: it was fairly dumb, so not too hard to fill the blanks with temporary noise. At least I don't remember it being a problem. 00:22:36 wasn't tbmoore at redhat writing some fancy new debugger? 00:25:22 I don't know. 00:25:28 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 00:25:32 And I think I'm going to give up and do something else for the rest of the evening. 00:26:01 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:28:04 phadthai [i=mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:04 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-251-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:37:12 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:37:43 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:38:13 -!- chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-56-112.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:39:34 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 00:43:08 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:45:03 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:45:32 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:46:07 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:09 hefner: RedHat was writing that "amazing debugger" since 1998! 00:48:09 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:48:54 wow, sounds like it's really going to be something special then! 00:49:26 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:50:09 How can I remove an element from an adjustable vector? I am getting error msg like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/70537. 00:50:51 (non-advice) if you have to remove elements frequently, don't use a vector. 00:51:11 removing elements from vectors is fine, so long as you don't care what order they're in 00:51:17 fusss: oh really? which one should I use instead? 00:51:28 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:52:34 how big is your data? what order, if any, did you want to impose on it? since you're using an adjustable vector I guess you don't know before hand 00:53:54 actually I use bin-search to remove an element. 00:54:34 fusss: the size might be 3,000 to 30,000. 00:54:55 there is a generic "remove". you might want to use a bag/sack datastructure, just a list. 00:55:40 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:56:02 fusss: I see. thanks for your advice. 00:56:37 So does anybody know a way to remove an element from an adjustable vector? 00:56:44 jtoy [n=jtoy@121.32.47.220] has joined #lisp 00:57:06 vector-push/vector-pop let you view a vector as a stack, if you have a LIFO i/o order 00:57:55 mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 00:58:32 clhs delete 00:58:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 00:58:57 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:18 Hi, I asked this before, but had to immediately run, so I didn't hear any answers. 00:59:43 Does anyone know why Roger Shank's work on natural language stalled and fell into disuse? 00:59:57 somewhere in there the call to REMOVE changed the result sequence 01:00:00 hefner: oh yeah, delete just worked fine. thank you. 01:00:39 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:00:54 s/Shank/Schank 01:01:01 tomoyuki28jp: i think REMOVE should've worked, probably with the right type declarations. just so you know, DELETE is destructive and remove is not. fwiw. 01:01:51 Quadrescence [n=quad@c-24-118-118-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:56 fusss: yeah, that what the HyperSpec says. 01:02:54 is delete guaranteed to destroy vector? i see only "may be destroyed" 01:03:05 brb 01:03:08 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:05:09 mjf [n=mjf@r9fk49.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 01:05:37 -!- mjf [n=mjf@r9fk49.net.upc.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 01:06:27 stassats: hyperspec is probably more right than me, _probably_ :-P 01:10:25 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A261FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:11:29 BW^- [n=Miranda@94.191.172.145.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 01:11:35 any interesting neural net stuff around? 01:14:11 Is any one knowledgeable about OpenCyc and wouldn't mind me frequently asking them questions? So far, I have found their documentation pretty unusable 01:14:15 and delete also isn't guaranteed to preserve fill-pointer, etc. 01:17:44 vinleod [n=vince@c-71-59-248-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:45 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:21:01 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:21:24 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:21:42 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:26:24 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:27:42 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.199.41] has joined #lisp 01:28:32 -!- happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.199.41] has quit [Client Quit] 01:29:33 krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-202-73-194.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:29:39 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:48 hi, how can i check in sbcl if a result returned from (directory "foo/bar/") is a directory or a file? 01:31:22 painfully; welcome to common lisp pathnames 01:31:50 peek at the cl-fad source code 01:32:39 thanks 01:37:11 Run the external file command and make sure it's not a directory? 01:37:58 that's awful. 01:38:05 any neural net stuff? 01:38:56 BW^-: nothing new in the last 25 minutes, no. 01:39:07 hehe ok 01:39:12 so that means you saw nothing? 01:39:28 BW^-: try #ai 01:39:31 Zoba: try dmiles_afk 01:39:50 kpreid, thanks 01:39:53 -!- kenxo [n=kentilto@ool-18bb7ae5.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 01:40:16 stassats: even if it were, you wouldn't be guaranteed that it left the result you wanted in the argument vector 01:40:44 the only(?) destructive function in clhs with a specified technique is NCONC 01:40:59 rplacd? 01:41:12 hm? 01:41:28 stassats: That's the write half of an accessor, not a destructive function. 01:42:18 one could argue that's the base case of destructiveness 01:42:32 crod [n=cmell@cb8a18-041.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:42:40 especially given that rplacd returns the cons you give it :) 01:42:48 nconc is defined in terms of rplacd, as i understand 01:42:56 yes 01:44:39 Okay, I'm going away again now. G'night all. 01:44:44 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@d288be-077.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:46:54 minion: note to tomoyuki28jp: the result of DELETE on vector can be without a fill-pointer (per spec), e.g., your code will not work in ecl and acl 01:46:54 Remembered. I'll tell tomoyuki28jp when he/she/it next speaks. 01:47:27 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:25 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:01 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:54:34 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-83-188-217.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:56:19 -!- krumholt [n=krumholt@port-92-202-73-194.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:01:31 -!- hrr4 [n=hrr4@81.90.21.226] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:06:41 ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.131.157] has joined #lisp 02:11:14 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:18:27 -!- rottcodd [n=jan@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:26:28 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-249-80-232.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:29:28 -!- locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-5745f5abf7e7b62d] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:30:31 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 02:30:35 locklace [i=locklace@gateway/tor/x-af1f49396aea7b6c] has joined #lisp 02:36:24 haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has joined #lisp 02:37:27 *hefner* can has svg parser 02:38:02 SVG is in XML. 02:43:10 -!- Athas` [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:43:30 I thought it looked familiar.. 02:45:21 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@c-76-104-2-182.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:55:24 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:43 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:55 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:05:57 notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has joined #lisp 03:07:54 Hello I am using trace macro to debug my codes. I am able to access the arguments passed to the traced function using (arg 0) .. (arg n) .. in the :print form but not in the :print-all form .. Is there a reason for this or there are ways to access the input args here aswell? 03:09:37 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:46 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["*bork bork*"] 03:14:38 notsonerdysunny: yes, there is: "The -after and -all forms are evaluated in the null environment." 03:14:56 -!- Twey [n=Twey@unaffiliated/twey] has left #lisp 03:19:37 stassats: I am not very clear about this environment thing.. I am a beginner.. I was able to access the arguments to function as (arg n) in the :print .. but I was not able to use it in the :print-all form .. can you please tell how I would acess say y in (defun myfun (y) (print y)) in the :print-all form? 03:21:06 i don't know how, if possible with current sbcl's trace 03:21:26 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 03:33:58 :) .. 03:35:48 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:24 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:37:33 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:41 -!- frosty00014 [n=Frostysn@c-98-246-45-132.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:44:13 quix [n=quix@c-24-63-111-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:14 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit ["downgrading!"] 03:44:55 Lufbery_jaa [n=chatzill@pool-71-254-223-42.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:18 -!- Lufbery_jaa [n=chatzill@pool-71-254-223-42.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1.13/2008111419]"] 03:48:08 -!- BW^- [n=Miranda@94.191.172.145.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:53:21 -!- vinleod [n=vince@c-71-59-248-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:55:03 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-76-229-91-235.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:56 vinleod [n=vince@c-71-59-248-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:36 slyrus___ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:38 -!- slyrus___ is now known as slyrus_ 03:58:35 rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:42 dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:02 -!- elurin [n=user@88.254.98.183] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:02:25 sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 04:02:49 clear 04:02:53 erm 04:03:16 -!- quix [n=quix@c-24-63-111-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:06:20 evening 04:06:47 -!- topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has left #lisp 04:06:48 photon2 [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 04:11:00 -!- dthomp [n=dat@c-24-22-103-86.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:11:01 Good morning. 04:19:42 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:22:11 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:23:03 pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:03 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@p4FEAC3E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:21 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:02 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a18-041.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:37:11 _Soulman_ [n=kvirc@147.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 04:37:31 crod [n=cmell@cb8a54-246.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:38:25 aja [n=aja@S01060018f3ab066e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:34 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:40:20 -!- LiamH [n=nobody@pool-138-88-126-7.res.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:40:27 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 04:42:17 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:42:43 -!- pstickne is now known as pst[away 04:45:02 Hello Beach 04:45:07 Hello I am using trace macro to debug my codes. I am able to access the arguments passed to the traced function using (arg 0) .. (arg n) .. in the :print form but not in the :print-all form .. Is there a reason for this or there are ways to access the input args here aswell? 04:45:52 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 04:47:57 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:28 -!- rottcodd is now known as Guest91256 04:48:34 chavo_ [n=user@c-24-118-166-62.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:28 -!- fisxoj_ [n=fisxoj@149.43.108.32] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 04:54:20 -!- |Soulman| [n=kvirc@58.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:56:06 -!- Guest91256 is now known as rottcodd 04:56:31 -!- notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:58:54 nivya [n=nivya@207-181-206-240.hnc-bsr1.chi-hnc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:03 -!- teiresias [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:01:05 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0733.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 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[] 06:57:15 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 07:00:06 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:01:48 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 07:02:10 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-3-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:03 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 07:03:40 -!- sysfault [i=exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [] 07:05:32 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 07:06:38 -!- hrr4 [n=hrr4@81.90.21.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:13:45 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:41 lichtblau: i use cxml-stp-2007-10-21 version 07:14:48 good morning 07:18:05 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 07:18:14 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:19:04 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 07:19:16 epoch's got it goin on 07:19:18 lichtblau: from http://www.lichteblau.com/cxml-stp/download/ 07:19:19 -!- holycow [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:19:53 -!- pstickne [n=pstickne@c-71-236-177-238.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:21:06 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:25:00 good morning 07:27:13 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:30:06 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:30:18 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:25 lichtblau: ok it works 1 07:31:46 lichtblau: i find closure-html, cxml-stp git version 07:31:52 lichtblau: atdoc works fine 07:33:48 -!- sad0ur_ [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:36:47 nostoi [n=nostoi@247.Red-81-44-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:17 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:40:28 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has joined #lisp 07:44:57 rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:26 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 07:51:06 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:53:59 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 07:54:49 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:55:53 Hi! Are TeX formats of CDR documents getting released? 07:58:42 yCrazyEdd [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-11-183.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:59:40 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.187.231] has joined #lisp 08:00:25 Aankhen`` [n=pockled@122.163.101.131] has joined #lisp 08:04:51 morning. 08:05:04 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-3-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:08:38 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 08:09:58 -!- spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:10:22 spiaggia [n=user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 08:10:25 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 08:11:03 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:11:05 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@247.Red-81-44-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 08:11:06 -!- yCrazyEdd is now known as CrazyEddy 08:11:34 -!- Reaver_1 [n=m@193.108.254.83] has left #lisp 08:13:32 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:15:24 -!- mulligan [n=user@e177080095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:17:30 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 08:18:20 madnificent [n=user@kotnet-151.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #lisp 08:21:21 ivanst [i=ivans@93-138-11-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:21:58 g'day 08:22:09 -!- nivya [n=nivya@207-181-206-240.hnc-bsr1.chi-hnc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:22:36 so... how many wheels did I reinvent here: 08:22:48 jrockway pasted "wheel-reinventing" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70559 08:25:51 i am wary of both keyword-alist-bind (shouldn't something like this be built-in), and i think i am misusing cl-who 08:26:02 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:26:06 something so useful should not require so much effort (factoring out snippets of HTML) 08:29:48 jrockway: IIRC, BIND can do KEYWORD-ALIST-BIND. 08:29:55 -!- Chris [n=chris@unaffiliated/chris] has quit ["No windows for this server"] 08:30:53 ignas [n=Ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:31:02 -!- ignas [n=Ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 08:31:17 ? metabang-bind 08:31:32 -!- sunwukong [n=salvi@ortros.den.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit ["bye"] 08:31:35 eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:31:35 minion: tell about metabang-bind 08:31:36 about: please look at metabang-bind: This page is here to help ASDF-Install and me agree on names. http://www.cliki.net/metabang-bind 08:33:23 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 08:33:36 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:33:53 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:34:13 -!- madnificent [n=user@kotnet-151.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:34:16 madnificent [n=user@kotnet-151.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #lisp 08:34:39 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-3-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:52 jrockway: No idea what you are doing there in general, but do you not want to upcase the to-keyword thing? 08:35:00 -!- arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:35:17 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 08:36:37 basically, given a symbol 'foo, i want to make it :foo 08:36:48 the use of format feels very wrong to me for this purpose 08:36:58 but the obvious (coerce symbol 'keyword) doesn't work 08:37:53 oh ok. 08:38:06 Well as long as you don't want it to be :FOO that will work. :) 08:38:11 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:38:17 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:39:28 matley [n=matley@83.224.215.201] has joined #lisp 08:39:35 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:40:24 madnific` [n=user@kotnet-151.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #lisp 08:41:07 -!- madnificent [n=user@kotnet-151.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:43:35 ok 08:44:01 it works for the alist , since (eql (to-keyword 'foo) :FOO) is true 08:46:44 Oh I was thinking "foo" 08:46:50 well ya that works :) 08:47:11 That's what I get for not reading the rest. 08:47:25 that's ok, it is a bit convoluted 08:56:50 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 08:58:19 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:01:32 matley- [n=matley@91.80.174.230] has joined #lisp 09:01:39 -!- matley- [n=matley@91.80.174.230] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:02:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@89.202.147.22] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:07:38 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-98-175.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 09:12:43 borism [n=boris@195-50-204-153-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 09:13:21 H4ns 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joined #lisp 10:26:48 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:29:12 enlightening words by steve yegge: 10:29:13 * Scheme is an exotic sports car. Fast. Manual transmission. No radio. 10:29:13 * Emacs Lisp is a 1984 Subaru GL 4WD: "the car that's always in front of you." 10:29:13 * Common Lisp is Howl's Moving Castle. 10:29:40 And my insomnia has just been rewarded 10:29:50 sykopomp: nice 10:30:02 http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/11/ejacs-javascript-interpreter-for-emacs.html Source. 10:30:19 toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:57 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:35:45 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:39:06 does any scheme compiler do better than a good cl one? 10:40:02 do better on what, a recursive factorial implementation? i take it that you mean that, as one cannot write real programs in scheme anyway :) 10:41:04 just trying to see the rationale for the comment that it's "fast" above :) 10:43:04 "go cart" would be more suitable. 10:43:26 rdd [n=user@c83-250-142-219.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:45:41 stalin is pretty fast 10:47:13 it's excrutiatingly slow but produces fast code, rather 10:47:24 Yes. 10:47:29 but it's a whole-program optimizer 10:48:52 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-3-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 10:49:17 Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-18-95.kosnet.ru] has joined #lisp 10:50:48 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 10:51:18 sykopomp: rather interesting read. The problems he addresses are mainly emacs-lisp related (and I prefer CL). Still nice to know ejacs exists 10:51:40 H4ns: LMAO 10:53:38 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 10:56:18 dwave [n=ask@pat-tdc.opera.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:26 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:56:59 -!- Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-18-95.kosnet.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:58:59 avodonosov [n=Miranda@212.98.174.94] has joined #lisp 11:00:34 Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-18-95.kosnet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:01:37 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-150-142.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:05:21 -!- avodonosov [n=Miranda@212.98.174.94] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:37 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 11:12:23 gio123 [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has joined #lisp 11:15:03 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:17:28 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:18:12 etfb [n=etfb@ppp59-167-55-91.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:33 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 11:19:28 -!- etfb [n=etfb@ppp59-167-55-91.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:20:20 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@p4132-ipbfp04kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 11:22:38 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:22:59 hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:24:55 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:31:04 hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has joined #lisp 11:32:20 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 11:33:18 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:35:35 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 11:37:08 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:39:09 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:45:44 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:53:03 krumholt [n=bastian@vpnsh0035.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 11:53:18 stassats [n=stassats@ppp78-37-29-198.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 11:54:01 hi i have a problem with lispworks. i want to use phtml but i get an error that it hits a non base-char. how can i remove all non base-chars from a string in lispworks? 11:54:21 Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:05 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.23] has joined #lisp 11:56:12 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 11:56:49 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:56:58 what i want to know is. how can i remove non base-chars from a string? 11:56:59 (remove-if-not (lambda (x) (typep x 'base-char)) "abcd") 11:57:09 many thanks 11:58:25 bartiosze [n=user@ejf118.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:58:36 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-150-142.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:59:47 fwiw, Alexandria defines a function OF-TYPE which returns such a lambda, (remove-if-not (alexandria:of-type 'base-char) string) 11:59:52 -!- krumholt [n=bastian@vpnsh0035.fh-trier.de] has left #lisp 12:01:08 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:01:08 -!- [1]edon is now known as edon 12:01:38 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-212.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:01 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:04:13 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #lisp 12:04:50 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:05:55 anyone here still uses cmucl? 12:06:24 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:26 rtoy does, but he doesn't seem to be currently in here. 12:06:37 thanks tcr 12:08:19 *H4ns* uses cmucl 12:08:31 H4ns: great, I was writing a memo 12:08:48 H4ns: I'm interested in knowing what does the "name" function on cmuclo does 12:09:03 I can't run cmucl here without a substancial hassle since I'm on an amd64 box 12:09:26 hold on. 12:09:43 tc-rucho: in which package? 12:09:56 let me check 12:10:14 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@cnmc12.hs.ntnu.edu.tw] has quit ["leaving"] 12:10:26 Buganini [n=buganini@cnmc12.hs.ntnu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 12:10:27 or, in which file do you see it 12:10:43 stassats: in the lisp package I guess, it's in /src/code/filesys.lisp 12:10:49 stassats: it's used in the directory function 12:11:07 *H4ns* recognizes that his cmucl setup at work is broken 12:11:55 but: * (fdefinition 'name)Error in FDEFINITION: the function NAME is undefined. 12:12:36 tc-rucho: it doesn't seem to be a function, it's not a function call, it's an argument for macro 12:12:40 stassats: I've finished with the :truenames nil key arg, it works, but I need to make the extension consistent. The only thing I haven't solved yet is to make it list directories with a trailing slash (it's a trivial matter actually, it's just that I don't think the way I'd solve it is nice enough) 12:12:50 oh 12:12:52 hmm 12:13:25 well, I'm back to the code then, need to figure out the best way to do this 12:13:49 stassats: thanks for the help :) 12:13:50 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@cnmc12.hs.ntnu.edu.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 12:13:59 Buganini [n=buganini@cnmc12.hs.ntnu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 12:15:25 -!- Buganini [n=buganini@cnmc12.hs.ntnu.edu.tw] has quit [Client Quit] 12:15:26 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 12:16:57 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.19] has joined #lisp 12:18:21 -!- wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:18:37 Buganini [n=buganini@cnmc12.hs.ntnu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 12:19:02 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:19:52 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:18 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:24:00 -!- Dawgmatix [n=Dawgmati@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 12:26:29 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:26:52 [2]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.16] has joined #lisp 12:27:33 -!- Adrinael [i=adrinael@rid7.kyla.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:27:37 Adrinael [i=adrinael@rid7.kyla.fi] has joined #lisp 12:28:08 dig [i=dce15088@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-461a3f97ddad0a49] has joined #lisp 12:29:13 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-128-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:30:19 -!- [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.19] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:09 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 12:31:09 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 12:31:09 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 12:31:20 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:20 -!- edon [n=edon@82.114.94.23] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:31:20 -!- [2]edon is now known as edon 12:31:26 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:31 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:01 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 12:43:32 -!- photon2 is now known as photon 12:46:51 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48:54 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BBA077.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:50:10 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-128-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 12:51:20 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:52:05 From within Slime is there a way to view documentation or information about a Common lisp function? I thought "C-h f" did it but I think that's for Emacs lisp functions 12:52:31 C-c C-d d 12:52:55 or C-c C-d h for clhs page 12:53:19 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB93F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:53:21 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 12:55:38 or instead of "C-c C-d d" for function "C-c C-d f" 12:56:44 which is the same as C-c C-f 12:56:46 Essi [n=essi@91.184.80.149] has joined #lisp 12:56:53 -!- froog is now known as froog_ 12:57:41 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:58:00 stassats: Cheers 13:00:20 jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a60-049.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:01:11 -!- crod [n=cmell@cb8a54-246.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:02:54 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 13:04:38 -!- Essi [n=essi@91.184.80.149] has left #lisp 13:05:24 dlowe [n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:06 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-187-119.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:06:15 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 13:12:30 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:39 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 13:14:57 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:01 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 13:22:18 -!- wormil9444 [n=Miranda@70.151.64.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:27 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:24:36 ohh [n=ohh@193.3.8.1] has joined #lisp 13:24:51 -!- ohh [n=ohh@193.3.8.1] has quit [Client Quit] 13:25:40 clhs remove 13:25:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 13:26:08 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:28:30 -!- jestocost [n=cmell@cb8a60-049.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 13:28:59 ohh [n=ohh@193.3.8.1] has joined #lisp 13:29:10 c|mell [n=cmell@cb8a60-049.dynamic.tiki.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:29:11 froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 13:34:00 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 13:36:19 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:38 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:42:21 -!- froog_ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:43:39 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 13:46:04 I'm trying to use difflib and I'm giving the examples from http://lemonodor.com/archives/001051.html a go. Each time I run it though, instead of giving me the diff it's just returning "; No Value". I did (require :cl-difflib) and I'm pretty much trying his examples unchanged, any ideas why it's not working? 13:46:11 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:48:11 kzar: You're running the examples at the repl? 13:49:03 sellout: oh yea, sorry the output is showing up at the repl I didn't realise! How do I get it to just return the output though? 13:49:38 which would be a nice way to add a trailing slash to a path? (#P) bet it's not using format and pathname 13:49:42 kzar: it doesn't return the output, it writes it to a stream 13:49:59 tc-rucho: Using cl-fad. 13:50:20 kzar: Thus you can use WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING. 13:50:24 vy: without using any packages 13:50:36 kzar: so you'll want WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING, and you'll need to pass the stream arugment to the diff Function somehow. 13:50:44 Man, my computer is lagging . Grrrr 13:50:46 tc-rucho: There there is no _nice_ way I know of. 13:51:05 jajcloz [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has joined #lisp 13:51:14 -!- dig [i=dce15088@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-461a3f97ddad0a49] has quit [Client Quit] 13:51:27 manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:12 -!- Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:52:15 you cannot "add a slash" to the end of a path name. as far as the cl pathname system is considered, a directory and a file are two different things and you cannot change a file into a directory by string manipulating the pathname object 13:52:58 you can certainly serialize the pathname into a string, manipulate that and then turn the string into a pathname again. 13:53:38 kzar: Example usage: (with-output-to-string (out) (difflib:unified-diff out (to-line-list :string "...") (to-line-list :string "...") :test-function #'equalp)). (I'm not sure if you'can replace EQUALP with STRING=.) 13:54:49 Yea I get it thanks everyone 13:55:14 -!- ohh is now known as brill 13:55:15 (Not sure why it doesn't just return a string by default though?) 13:57:03 Why should it? 13:57:25 __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has joined #lisp 14:00:40 can somebody download for me: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=578597 14:01:56 athos [n=philipp@p54B86EB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:38 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 14:04:14 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:55 -!- mindCrime [n=chatzill@cpe-075-177-141-190.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host] 14:05:36 gio123: It's available as a hardcover book, not a digital download. 14:07:01 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-164.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:07:35 nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp124.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 14:08:02 -!- __link [n=link@122.166.40.72] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:08:10 -!- kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has left #lisp 14:09:47 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:09:57 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:20 kzar [n=kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:11:47 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-187-119.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:12:26 jajcloz_ [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 14:12:41 -!- jajcloz [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:13:36 -!- tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:13:43 vy pasted "TO-LINE-LIST" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70566 14:14:42 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has joined #lisp 14:15:44 Is there a tree-structure widgit-ish thing in CLIM? 14:15:55 Such as could be used for browsing a file hierarchy or what have you? 14:18:43 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 14:19:26 no. graph formatting can draw a tree, but that's not what you have in mind, I think. 14:20:24 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:21:27 Like konqueror in "tree mode," or whatever the MacOS calls list mode 14:21:41 ... although it's perhaps customizable enough that you could coerce it into drawing an explorer-style tree. But you might as well come up with your own api in that case. 14:22:10 So I should just use another graphics toolkit if I need that sort of thing? 14:22:50 to get the work done? yes. For planet lisp fame? No, implement your own gadget if you're after that. 14:23:15 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 14:23:59 I think hefner implemented a traditional treeish widget somewhere 14:24:41 ah, this one perhaps? http://paste.lisp.org/display/10348 14:24:49 That would be really nice, because I'd like to use this project as an excuse to teach myself clim 14:25:33 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:26:09 Oh, wow. So it is. I guess I'll try and fix this. 14:26:14 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:26:33 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-174-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:27:57 dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:40 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable012.160-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 14:29:14 can somebody download for me: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=578597 14:29:41 gio123: go away 14:30:25 cmm: why? 14:30:50 cmm: if you give me ur syster for a night i can go with her away 14:30:57 gio123: because you repeatedly ignore people who say this is not a warez channel? 14:30:58 gio123: because 1) you have asked the same question before 2) the page refers to a book, not a downloadable document 3) this is not a warez channel 14:31:01 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 14:31:44 ok 14:31:55 clear 14:32:04 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*n=g@147.21.16.* 14:32:13 -!- Krystof has set mode -b *!*=previous@99.242.23.* 14:32:42 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*@91.151.140.4 14:33:04 clearly, dancer-ircd needs to support arbitrary-sized ban lists 14:33:49 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:34:50 Krystof: are the glyphs satisfactory for you so far? 14:36:15 I'm afraid I haven't tried them 14:36:30 Xof: no rush. 14:36:38 but I have managed to get dlewis to mail gsharp-devel, so hopefully things will start moving 14:36:47 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Client Quit] 14:36:54 I haven't "tried" them myself. I have just used the font viewer to debug them. 14:37:04 Xof: OK. 14:38:15 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 14:39:53 *attila_lendvai* groans and goes eating instead of trying to convince asdf about a dependency that is not following the directory structure 14:42:22 Krystof: Can I PM you? 14:42:29 s/Can/May/ 14:42:46 G'morning all. 14:43:10 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 14:44:04 sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has joined #lisp 14:44:35 hello nyef 14:45:27 gm nyef 14:48:25 So it occurred to me last night, ARM is probably going to be the first optionally-soft-float SBCL port. 14:48:33 I've pretty much finished my little script but I'm getting an error now that I'm testing it on real pages "the character with code 8211 cannot be encoded.". It gives me the option to skip the character interactively but do you know if there's a way to do this automatically? (This is going to run from a cron-job so it can't really require input from me.) 14:48:56 (I say optionally because the Architecture Reference Manual (ARM) defined an FPU, but it's not implemented on the XScale.) 14:49:20 kzar: Typically, you handler-bind the actual error and use invoke-restart. 14:49:37 Quadrescence: you may, but I'll only respond if it's interesting 14:50:46 Anyway, soft-float appears to use completely different conventions from the VFP, and apparently doesn't do excetions -at all-, so that's going to be interesting. May even have to have a separate soft-float library for SBCL. 14:51:31 *nyef* goes looking for the missing #\p from that last statement. 14:51:51 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:54:50 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 14:55:04 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 14:55:14 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 14:55:20 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:55:49 (Hunh, the ARM7TDMI is an ARMv4T system. I'm sure -someone- is going to want SBCL to support that...) 14:56:07 -!- brill [n=ohh@193.3.8.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:56:16 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:56:16 ejs_ [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:06 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:22 slyrus___ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:24 -!- slyrus___ is now known as slyrus_ 14:57:57 disumu [n=disumu@p57A249C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:23 rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 15:00:04 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:02:38 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:06:47 Woah, when I try to read the file with funny characters and return it as a string my slime-connection drops 15:07:55 -!- Modred [n=modred@cpe-76-184-107-83.tx.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:08:19 kzar: At which point we would wonder what your slime-net-coding-system is. 15:08:24 trebor_dki [n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:37 beach: hello! 15:08:37 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:43 <_3b> for really funny characters, you might need a newer emacs 15:09:44 nyef: Hmm I'm connecting to my lisp repl on another box using Slime. Using that I was writing a script to download a few webpages and email me if they had changed. Problem is some funny characters seemed to have freaked Lisp out somehow 15:10:13 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb8a89.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:23 (I was trying to just make a little script so I know if Visa applications have opened yet.) 15:10:42 I'm starting to think I should just use Perl for this kind of thing 15:11:16 mindCrime [n=chatzill@216.27.62.2] has joined #lisp 15:11:35 _3b: I'm using Emacs 22 and a pretty new version of Slime and SBCL 15:11:50 -!- willb [n=wibenton@h69-129-204-3.mdsnwi.broadband.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:12:35 <_3b> kzar: yeah, i think that is what i was using when i saw it, though now that i think about it more i thing it caused an elisp error instead of just dropping connection, so nyef's guess is probably it 15:13:03 'hello 15:13:24 Would someone mind explaining how ASDF and whatnot works at a high level? I read through it (I wanted to use Alexandria), but I wasn't sure. 15:13:48 _3b nyef: oh gotya, that's a variable.. it contains "iso-latin-1-unix" for me 15:14:24 <_3b> might work better with utf-8 15:15:09 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:15:27 kzar: yep, see http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Emacs_002dside-customization.html#Emacs_002dside-customization and 15:15:30 <_3b> or utf-8-unix i guess, and start swank with (swank:create-server :coding-system "utf-8") or something like that 15:16:24 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:16:52 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-212.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:16:57 OK, let's give this a blash 15:17:00 blast* 15:17:33 oester [n=mikael@c83-253-72-74.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:18:23 avodonosov [n=Miranda@212.98.174.94] has joined #lisp 15:19:47 Quadrescence: do you want to define your own systems or just install existing ones? 15:19:55 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has quit [] 15:20:00 locklace: Install existing ones. 15:20:00 -!- jajcloz_ [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has quit [] 15:20:55 jajcloz [n=jaj@209.6.216.149] has joined #lisp 15:21:26 Quadrescence: just look at http://cliki.net/asdf-install, it's very simple if you're using sbcl 15:21:53 rsynnott, _3b: Cheers that's stopped the connection dropping 15:22:26 i have an asdf-beginner question: how can i use absolute/relative pathnames in :components? it i use sth like (:file "/media/....") i get concatenated pathname like "/media/....//media/...." which does not succeed. if i use sth like (:file "../lisp/....") i get pathnames like "/media/..../../lisp/...." which does not work either. can someone give me a hint/url/man/info? 15:22:38 Quadrescence: basically just (require 'asdf-install) and (asdf-install:install 'foo) 15:23:50 (as a work-around i was using links - but i can not do so in this case) 15:26:08 <_3b> trebod_dki: (:file "foo" :pathname "/bar/foo") or something like that? 15:26:30 _3b: thanks, i will try that. 15:26:48 hello mvilleneuve 15:26:53 what's up? 15:27:08 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 15:27:11 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.131.157] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:29:04 Actually do you know an easy way of just stripping these crazy characters? I don't really need them and they are messing everything up 15:33:24 _3b: works perfect - thank you very very much. 15:34:18 <_3b> kzar: (remove-if (lambda (x) (> (char-code x) 127)) string)? 15:36:00 *attila_lendvai* murmurs something about utf-8 not being the default in slime 15:37:46 jlf` [n=user@209.204.171.109] has joined #lisp 15:38:40 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:01 monadwr [n=monadwr@unaffiliated/monadwr] has joined #lisp 15:42:14 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp145.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 15:43:28 -!- monadwr [n=monadwr@unaffiliated/monadwr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:43:37 willb [n=wibenton@wireless06.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:45:07 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B86EB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:47:04 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483EFD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:53 rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:34 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:50:02 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:37 OdinsGhost [n=Miranda@ip-90-187-178-43.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:24 ffx` [n=tits@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:54:34 Has anyone sent HTML emails from mel-base before? I can't really find any examples or explanations how I would do it 15:55:14 kzar: i tried, finally gave up and turned to using cl-smtp, cl-mime and xhtmlgen 15:55:37 -!- NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit ["Rebels Unite!"] 15:55:47 H4ns: Argh that means installing more pacakges 15:55:58 kzar: yeah. it is a pain, really 15:56:40 A simple lil' script is turning into a bit of a nightmare 15:56:46 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:57:34 kzar: cl-smtp is really all you need for simpler things (but of course, cl-smtp depends on cl+ssl and usocket) :) 15:57:53 bynari [i=jeff@cpc2-shet2-0-0-cust100.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:08 -!- bynari [i=jeff@cpc2-shet2-0-0-cust100.renf.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 15:58:26 the great chain of dependencies 15:58:38 (by 2010, EVERY lisp library will depend on usocket!) 15:59:01 every library will be able to read mail? 15:59:03 H4ns: I can't remember why but I gave up installing cl-smtp last time, I could only get mel-base working so I thought I'd just use that 16:00:17 Now I've got to kill the running image, try and get the bastards to all install, make a new image again and hope it all still works. (It took me about two weeks to install Weblocks, by the time I managed I didn't really have time to try using it any more.) 16:00:25 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:35 Whoops sorry I'm just moaning now heh.. here goes anyway 16:02:36 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 16:04:32 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:05:40 brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:06:29 monadwr [n=monadwr@unaffiliated/monadwr] has joined #lisp 16:07:25 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 16:07:51 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:08:09 -!- bartiosze [n=user@ejf118.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:09:29 acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:52 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0733.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:09:59 tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@190.191.162.100] has joined #lisp 16:11:02 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:44 #!-win32 in sbcl would mean that the following line or the following instruction with all the block of code it encloses is meant to be run only on a win32 build, right? 16:12:34 tc-rucho: #-win32 would mean on non-win32 16:13:16 I see 16:13:51 -!- brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:16:00 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:16:36 -!- rtra [n=rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit ["off"] 16:17:34 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A249C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 16:18:27 brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:18:58 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:07 H4ns: Phew I managed to install those packages 16:19:15 kzar: congrats! 16:19:17 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:19:58 H4ns: I keep a log of what I've done to get my lisp system running pretty much, it's 154 lines now 16:20:37 kzar: you may be finding some inspiration for mime mail sending in http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/projects/bos/m2/mail-generator.lisp#L239 16:21:01 kzar: i'm sure that you can send mail with fewer lines of codes in other languages! 16:21:32 faxes, even! 16:22:04 (send-fax *my-content* *destination*) ; finding the library that implements this function is left as an exercise for the reader 16:22:25 chandler: let alone installing it and all its prerequisites! 16:22:32 (my old mobile phone could send faxes. Bizarre feature) 16:22:40 faxes of text messages, that is 16:22:47 H4ns: Well, we offer a six week graduate certificate in ASDF, if you need help with that. 16:23:05 chandler: thanks, but no! 16:23:11 heheh 16:23:20 chandler: I think I've basically just done that getting this far heh 16:23:23 chandler: your school teaches touch-typing? 16:23:35 *rsynnott* waits for someone to start a real-life MCSE-style thing for lisp 16:23:40 hah 16:23:40 -!- gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-50-126-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:23:44 complete with weird, tedious exams 16:23:54 antifuchs: Your () keys worn out at the end of the program, or your money back! 16:23:56 -!- gio123 [n=gio123@91.151.140.4] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:24:00 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:02 rsynnott: Should you [A] Do it the easy way, [B] Do it the proper way or [C] The microsoft way? 16:24:03 rsynnott: I thought Franz did something like that, actually. 16:24:19 ISTR they do lisp courses in japan, at least 16:24:23 Yeah think so to 16:24:31 (apparently at one point one of the MCSE papers asked whether a 16bit VBX automatically converted to a 32bit OLE thingy would be faster than it had been) 16:24:47 the CORRECT answer was, of course, that it would be 16:24:51 rsynnott: haha 16:24:56 (in reality, though, it would probably not be) 16:25:11 The MSCE exam I did was a joke, but it was a free week off work so.. 16:25:25 I wonder what would make someone advertise a library compiled with g++ (and no extern "C" anywhere) as having a C interface. 16:25:35 chandler: is it at least a little more grown-up than MCSE? 16:25:41 xjrn [n=jim@c-69-181-213-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:53 pkhuong: incompetence or malice 16:26:12 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:27:21 alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:27:23 Anyone seen the Max Payne film? 16:27:25 I think it's high time we revisit that whole incompetence / malice dichotomy. I'm beginning to think that much of the world is the way it is out of incompetence perpetuated by a malice-minded refusal to gain competence. 16:27:58 See also "2008 financial meltdown, the". 16:28:38 oh, there were all sorts of things going on THERE 16:28:43 rsynnott: it's good code too; obviously written by someone who'd rather be using Fortran, but the interface seems pretty nice (SYMPHONY). 16:29:03 replor [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:29:08 chandler: what, you mean that all those people claiming that the free market solves everything were maliciously failing to notice that that's not true? 16:29:10 gd&r 16:29:11 (I personally blame the creepy almost-religious belief in the unrestrained free market the 'regulators' seemed to have) 16:29:18 so not malice, just stupid 16:29:30 pkhuong: maybe marketing made them do it 16:29:44 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:29:47 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:05 -!- dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:30:27 jackdaw [n=chris@cpe-076-182-043-222.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:34 Xof, rsynnott: Please let me know where to find this "free market". All I see is a system designed to make it impossible for anyone but a lumbering, overweight big business to survive. 16:31:00 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.225] has joined #lisp 16:31:00 chandler: that's the point 16:31:09 chandler: YHBT 16:31:13 -!- lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp145.studby.uio.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:31:18 Xof: Of course. 16:31:22 but it's called 'free market' 16:32:07 (especially by strange people who insist on referring to, say, sweden, as 'socialist') 16:32:10 -!- monadwr [n=monadwr@unaffiliated/monadwr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:32:37 chandler: I could continue trolling by saying that since you have clearly never seen a free market, the continued assertions without evidence that a free market would in fact solve any problems at all borders on the religious 16:32:41 but I won't 16:32:42 rysnnot people say socialist like it's a bad thing 16:32:43 have a nice day 16:33:12 Xof: Of course, but I don't really believe there is a great difference between religion and politics anyway. 16:33:19 jackdaw: sure, it is the counter-concept to freedom! 16:33:37 H4ns: http://paste.lisp.org/display/69508 looks a bit easier an example.. let's see if it works 16:33:51 And both are equally offtopic, but I'm afraid this discussion is my fault. I should have brought up C++ as an example instead. 16:34:12 kzar: yeah - the encoding may not work that way, though. 16:34:27 H4ns, ahh yes i forgot that 16:34:48 kzar: (unless you have latin1 as your locale and/or you only send ascii mail, both of which are not completely unlikely :) ) 16:37:11 rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:55 does darcs have some sort of version-number or something, or does the author have to tag things for users to check out a specific version? .. (hope it's ok if i bother you guys with this; a lot of lisp software is managed by darcs these days it seems..) 16:40:13 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:40:27 H4ns: This is really stupid but I can't see any examples of how to create the +mail-server+ variable.. Do you know how to do that part? With Mel-Base it was something like (defvar *mail-server* (mel:make-smtp-relay-folder :host "localhost")) 16:40:35 teiresias [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:42 kzar: I think it's just a string with an address in it 16:40:47 (this is cl-smtp, right?) 16:40:59 rsynnott: yea, so just "localhost" or whatevr? 16:41:03 i think it is the string containing the domain name of the mail server. 16:41:28 ok, sorry that was a stupid question 16:41:58 (a combination of cl-smtp and an iphone has finally turned me into a total paranoid; evil app sends me emails whenever it's annoyed) 16:42:19 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 16:42:50 kpreid: are you arround? 16:44:34 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:44:44 lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:49 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:11 lnostdal: you can do things like "darcs get --to-patch=foo" where foo matches something in the patch name 16:47:26 *rsynnott* fears darcs 16:47:29 -!- ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:29 tokenrove, yeah, seems very vague though 16:47:43 indeed. don't blame me, i use git now. ;-) 16:47:51 -!- matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:48:31 i think tags are intended for that purpose 16:48:35 heh, yeah .... i guess i should learn git .. but it sure seem to have its problems too .. i tried to setup simple http access, but that is apparently not something git is designed very well for 16:49:07 matimago [n=user@cac94-10-88-170-236-224.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:20 lnostdal: yeah, it hopes you get something that can talk the git wire protocol, much speedier that way 16:49:44 yeah 16:50:23 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51:31 -!- syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.225] has quit [] 16:52:41 *gigamonkey* has been pretty happy with hg 16:53:17 so many to pick from .. we should just end all this; write a scm in lisp :) 16:53:46 connect it with asdf .. etc. 16:53:47 I'm sure someone has done so. Though perhaps not since the dvc revolution struck. 16:53:59 isn't there a darcs or something in lisp? 16:54:00 so you're going to solve the N-VCS problem by writing VCS N+1? 16:54:14 meta-cvs was done in CL, IIRC 16:54:15 -!- ejs_ [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:54:33 of course!, antifuchs .. lol :) 16:55:03 -!- maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:55:15 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:55:26 antifuchs: http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=WhoCreatedChaos 16:55:51 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit ["I'm big in Japan"] 16:56:06 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:31 antifuchs: you were the one who had extracted a promise from this guy http://www.apl.jhu.edu/~hall/lisp.html to update his page, right. 16:56:41 -!- oester [n=mikael@c83-253-72-74.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["leaving"] 16:57:10 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:57:27 weelll... I think it was more like a promise to put in my changes if I made them (: 16:57:31 which I never did 16:58:15 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 16:58:30 Ah. I see he's still linking to the Harlequin copy of the CLHS. 16:58:39 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 16:58:56 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@cidhcp124.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:00:41 uchitoru [n=user@85.139.117.150] has joined #lisp 17:00:47 benny` [n=benny@i577A0733.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:20 -!- benny` is now known as benny 17:03:09 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:31 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:05 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [] 17:07:24 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:09:35 dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 17:13:15 -!- madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:15:18 oh, harlequin seems to be something else now 17:15:31 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 -!- uchitoru [n=user@85.139.117.150] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:16:02 agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has joined #lisp 17:16:05 ejs [n=eugen@212-148-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit ["leaving"] 17:16:33 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has joined #lisp 17:17:39 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:18:35 rsynnott: it's not something else entirely; the RIP was one of the original Harlequin LLC product lines 17:18:54 Once I have alexandria installed, need I just type (require 'alexandria) to use its functions? 17:20:32 (apparently so) 17:20:56 If you're using SBCL, yes. Otherwise (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :alexandria) is the right invocation. 17:21:17 -!- toddoon [n=guillaum@mar92-11-82-245-210-60.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:27 ISTR clozure uses the (require thing, as well 17:22:01 Ah. Not every Lisp does, though. 17:22:19 gigamonk` [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:40 the more right is to write dependency on alexandria into your .asd file 17:26:03 Alexandria is to Common Lisp as Boost is to C++ 17:26:04 :o 17:28:19 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 17:28:24 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 17:31:00 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:33:52 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:36:41 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 17:38:38 Quadrescence: not 17:39:24 locklace: Well, vaguely. :/ 17:41:32 *dlowe* isn't interested in C++, comparisons or otherwise. 17:43:01 -!- brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:44:07 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit ["reboot"] 17:53:47 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:35 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 17:59:47 milanj [n=milan@212.200.223.120] has joined #lisp 18:00:19 FZ [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 18:02:07 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:02:10 gigamonk`, saw you liked hg. tried git? 18:02:27 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:04:03 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-83-188-217.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:19 njsg_ [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 18:05:00 tic: I looked at git a bit when I was looking around for an svn replacement. That was a while ago. I actually suspect that after I finish my current book I'll take another look at git. 18:05:09 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:05:25 gigamonkey, it's really quite nice in its simplicity. 18:05:33 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:04 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:06:24 Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 -!- OdinsGhost is now known as OdinsGhost_ 18:06:47 It certainly seems to be getting a lot of uptake, particularly in the Lisp world. Which is, Ithink, for vc systems, is a good reason to pick one over another. 18:07:11 -!- njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:07:14 -!- njsg_ is now known as njsg 18:07:20 gigamonk: your current book... writing another lisp bestseller? ;-) 18:07:40 binghe [n=chatzill@218.109.144.37] has joined #lisp 18:07:45 FZ: nope. http://www.codersatwork.com/ 18:08:02 oh, ok :) 18:11:02 *ivanst* stares 18:11:30 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 18:11:50 -!- cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-182-117-83.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:11:51 ivanst: what are you staring at? 18:11:55 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 18:12:01 -!- yango [n=yango@unaffiliated/yango] has quit ["leaving"] 18:12:17 gigamonkey, your tail is sticking out. also, you have a /msg from me. 18:12:27 Bah. Stupid emacs. 18:12:55 *gigamonkey* goes to try and fix his erc customization 18:12:57 i find it hard to believe just how small the lisp community seems to be 18:13:19 Actually it's just you. The rest of us are advanced AIs. 18:13:50 Written in ML, but shhhhhh. 18:13:55 ivanst: how small is it? 18:14:11 It's so small ... 18:14:15 so small that trying to measure it gives inaccurate results :P 18:14:56 -!- ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:15:02 well, it seems like the whole of lisp is in here. 18:15:07 Does anyone know how to set ERC so it pops up the appropriate buffer when someone msg's you? 18:15:57 try (setq erc-auto-query 'buffer) 18:16:01 ia [n=ia@89.169.165.188] has joined #lisp 18:17:16 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:17:41 lisp community is so small, you can eat it in one (byte 8 0) 18:17:53 cmm [n=cmm@bzq-79-182-117-83.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:13 -!- cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit ["rereboot"] 18:18:29 adeht: cool thanks. Can you msg me to see if I did it right. 18:18:30 ? 18:18:37 -!- mega1 [n=mega@3e44ad36.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:18:42 *gigamonkey* has a problem remembering to end questions with #\? 18:19:42 that would just hang your reader waiting for the matching |# 18:20:17 -!- agnel [n=joel@115.99.2.68] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:20:25 fusss: tilt your head. You're reading that wrong. 18:20:32 wow, my fonts must be screwed. it looks like | 18:21:56 gigamonkey: there is a more recent "programmers at work" book, and it's staffed with C# and java guys. didn't recognize 3/4 of the people there. yours looks better, imo. 18:22:31 I'm looking forward to gigamonkey's book 18:23:03 fusss: Actually called "Programmers at Work"? Or do you have the title? 18:23:10 wait 18:23:28 elurin [n=user@88.254.108.31] has joined #lisp 18:23:57 gigamonkey, your link to Joe Armstrong is not to the right one 18:24:06 on Wikipedia 18:25:15 jpcooper: thanks. I'll fix it. 18:25:39 -!- ejs [n=eugen@212-148-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:28:27 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-8d116f8207896fb8] has joined #lisp 18:28:40 this couldn't find anything new "(programmers|coders|hackers|developers) at work" 18:29:27 for what it's worth, the book is divided into sections with names like "The Java camp", the "C# dudes", "Here come the C++ers",etc. weird. 18:29:33 ``Erik [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:34 it's at Borders anyway 18:29:54 Zoba [i=Zoba@wva4448rn.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:30:51 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:31:02 could it have been "Beautiful Code"? 18:31:13 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 18:31:24 It's not splitup like that. 18:31:46 (IIRC) 18:31:50 Wait, I heard that book was good ... but I only read Simon's Beautiful Concurrency bit. 18:32:36 I found Beautiful Code okay. The early chapters were pretty good and I suspect the late chapters may be good but I got stalled out in the vast desert of the middle. 18:32:55 fusss: if you see it again email me the title. 18:33:04 jpcooper: should be fixed now. 18:33:13 ok, i will 18:33:45 There's a nice chapter in _Beautiful Code_ about Emacspeak, of which I am a user. 18:34:23 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:34:50 gigamonk`, okay 18:38:31 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:42 milanj- [n=milan@79.101.170.205] has joined #lisp 18:40:39 slyrus___ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:41 -!- slyrus___ is now known as slyrus_ 18:41:13 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:42:10 gigamonkey: You have Ingalls, but what David Ungar? if it wasn't for him, there wouldn't be JavaScript to find a JSON for ;-) 18:42:29 *fusss* thinks highly of Self 18:42:49 fusss: we all think highly of ourselves. We're Lispers. 18:43:00 ouch 18:43:42 As I just said to someone who msg'd me about someone I'm not talking to--any list of sixteen programmers is going to leave off many equally fantastic names. 18:43:42 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:43:56 agreed 18:43:59 So you must all buy many copies of C@W when it comes out so we can do a sequel. 18:45:47 Will it be done in time for the holiday rush? 18:46:02 Copies for the whole family! 18:46:02 sellout: In 2009. Probably. ;-) 18:46:16 fwiw,i wonder if many people are aware of the two degrees of separation between Flash and, *gasp*, Garnet. Look at Amulet :-) 18:48:32 milan [n=milan@93.86.58.106] has joined #lisp 18:49:00 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-93-132-132.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49:35 -!- binghe [n=chatzill@218.109.144.37] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a1/20080924175546]"] 18:49:53 lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:50:01 cods [n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 18:50:07 -!- esdentem [n=esden@lapradig77.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit ["Computer has gone to sleep"] 18:51:55 Well, that was fruitless. 18:52:16 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:40 Tried to persuade windows to set up a MEM_RESERVE area by manipulating the section table in a PE file, but it was a total bust. 18:53:10 So I'm still stuck doing --dynamic-space-size 60 for SBCL/Win32. 18:54:13 josemanuel [n=josemanu@190.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:55:30 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.223.120] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:55:47 -!- Modius_ is now known as Modius 19:00:05 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 19:00:38 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 19:01:59 minion: logs 19:01:59 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24) 19:03:40 tunes is back up. 19:03:44 -!- antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:04:05 so we got (cl:insect something) .. which pauses execution .. is there a (swank:inspect something) that does the same but uses the slime inspector? .. maybe i'm going about this wrong .. 19:04:45 -!- lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:05:01 lnostdal: (apropos "INSPECT" "SWANK") reveals swank:inspect-in-emacs. 19:05:23 lnostdal: C-c I 19:05:25 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.170.205] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05:32 Slime hooking into CL:INSPECT is the background of CDR6 19:05:46 that is a very cool feature .. it works .. thanks, pkhuong :) 19:05:58 -!- drwhen [n=d@209-112-181-104.static.acsalaska.net] has quit ["\(^^) LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL! "\(^^)""] 19:06:05 lnostdal: Another way is to use BREAK, and enter the inspector from sldb 19:06:32 yeah, but it's kinda hard to "point it to the right thing" sometimes 19:06:42 inline .. nothing has a name .. etc. 19:06:50 just return values working their way upwards 19:07:06 lnostdal: pass whatever you want to inspect to break's format string 19:08:41 yes .. that works too .. hum, nice 19:10:19 antgreen [n=green@CPE0014bf0b631a-CM001e6b1858fa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:32 lichtblau [n=user@port-83-236-3-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:49 i have a silly habit of debugging using calls to print etc. .. i should have learned to do this proper a long time ago ..... :) 19:11:15 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:11:16 lnostdal: Indeed. Use FORMAT instead. :-P 19:12:20 hehe 19:12:44 curious, did beach's FORMAT ever become complete? 19:12:50 CLOS seems very interesting. :> 19:13:02 (sorry for interjecting comment) 19:13:20 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-240-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:40 'hello 19:13:48 nyef, lnostdal: I almost exclusively use format-style debugging, and I often use http://paste.lisp.org/display/67533 19:15:05 Hunh. Kindof neat. 19:15:14 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:15:25 Is there any kind of documentation or standardization on the swank wire protocol? 19:15:35 Nope 19:15:42 Pity. 19:15:51 -!- dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:15:59 gigamonkey pasted "Another bit of handy print debugging foo" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70580 19:16:02 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 19:16:11 presentations are very nice 19:16:41 Quadrescence: it really is. http://paste.lisp.org/display/70581 <-- I found out you could do fp-style quicksort and modified it a bit, then slapped it into CLOS :P 19:16:54 i can only imagine .. but this kinda reminds me of what i was thinking when reading about lisp machines 19:18:22 sykopomp: Interesting. 19:19:15 that thing should be part of slime/swank imho, tcr .. it seems very useful 19:19:42 i mean, a loop .. then print out all the presentations in one go .. then pick afterwards 19:19:49 -!- Aankhen`` [n=pockled@122.163.101.131] has quit ["Why did the tachyon cross the road? 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Can you try compiling the various files by hand? 19:42:41 i will do so. 19:44:04 doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 19:44:59 uxell [n=u@dslb-084-056-132-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:20 gigamonkey: all files compiled fine. 19:45:25 hmmm. 19:45:52 I'd start from a clean Lisp and try loading the system again. 19:46:10 You could also try invoking ASDF:OPERATE by hand, rather than via SLIME. 19:46:12 i did so several times. 19:46:36 (i mean the lisp new start thing) 19:47:39 Is it a system you wrote yourself. Or something you downloaded? 19:47:54 I.e. do you know that this system can in fact be loaded with ASDF? 19:50:55 auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has joined #lisp 19:51:11 p8m_mobi [n=p8m_mobi@174-157-17-102.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:48 -!- p8m_mobi [n=p8m_mobi@174-157-17-102.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:52 -!- grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:59:12 I'd like to have two bidirectional streams that are connected, i.e., what i put into one comes out of the other and vice versa. This is not unlike the pipe() system call. Is this possible? Do I need gray streams to do it? (make-pipe-io-stream comes close, but isn't it.) 20:00:10 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:00:27 gigamonkey: sorry i am reading asdf-manual. it is a system i coded myself. 20:02:28 clhs echo-stream 20:02:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_echo_s.htm 20:02:34 (i meant sorry for delayed response) 20:03:32 anyone know of any papers/examples on hacking fancier method dispatch into lisp? 20:04:00 i.e. not just being able to dispatch on eql, but on arbitrary conditionals, slots of arguments, etc 20:04:19 I think this stuff was mentioned at some point, but grepping my logs seems to be failing. 20:04:23 Wasn't there an example a while back by Xof? 20:05:13 nyef: I don't know :) 20:05:21 tc-rucho: you can safely C-c C-c most of those functions in a running sbcl... 20:05:29 uh? 20:05:34 nyef: I have a crusade to run against if and cond 20:05:56 tc-rucho: re your sbcl-devel mail 20:06:09 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:06:13 attila_lendvai: oh 20:06:22 So... You want to be able to use SATISFIES types for method discrimination? 20:06:47 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 20:07:15 -!- bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:36 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-152.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 20:07:51 locklace: exactly what i need! thanks! 20:08:16 hello 20:08:17 nyef: not sure what satisfies types are. 20:08:23 *sykopomp* checks clhs 20:08:26 clhs satisfies 20:08:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_satisf.htm 20:08:36 attila_lendvai: you mean I can test them with C-c C-c? doesn't seem to work for me =/ it just takes me to the restart's prompt 20:09:14 tc-rucho: if you are running slime, C-c C-c sends in the defun at the caret for sbcl to evaluate it 20:09:25 nyef: oh. That would be a step in the right direction, yes. 20:09:46 nyef: but I'd like it to go beyond simple predicates. I'd like to be able to dispatch on the content and type of slots of an argument 20:10:03 vy [n=user@88.229.119.120] has joined #lisp 20:10:16 attila_lendvai: are you sure you don't have any binding for C-c C-c? it takes me to an interrupt prompt 20:10:21 What I kindof want is a way of specifying types like "unsigned integers that are less than (expt 2 32), and are a multiple of 4." 20:11:13 And that -without- using a satisfies type. 20:11:14 tc-rucho: you need to be in a lisp buffer, not in the repl nor in the inferior lisp buffer 20:11:30 *tc-rucho* checks 20:11:38 nyef: yeah. What I'm looking for is for a way to pass arbitrary functions to the method definition, and dispatch on their results. 20:11:54 attila_lendvai: nice! :D 20:12:04 sykopomp: Have you looked at Clojure? 20:12:05 attila_lendvai: I thought you were meaning the repl 20:12:21 Heh. Yeah, I remember this bit from clojure. 20:12:24 -!- vy [n=user@88.229.119.120] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:28 sykopomp: It allows you to specify the dispatch function in your defgeneric, basically. 20:12:52 sellout: hum. That's an interesting way to do it. 20:13:03 it'd be pretty great to hack that into CLOS :D 20:13:09 tc-rucho: i suggest to spend 10 minutes googling/reading material about slime. it'll pay back multiplied... 20:13:18 sykopomp: AMOP is a good place to start :) 20:13:44 attila_lendvai: looks like it, I'm checking some stuff about it 20:13:49 sellout: yeah, it's on my reading list once this semester ends. I was asking if there were any efforts to do this already, since I don't really care much to reinvent the wheel. 20:14:01 sykopomp: I'm not aware of any. 20:14:10 sykopomp: Definitely something I'm interested in seeing, though. 20:14:49 In my own experiments, I've been going down the destructuring/pattern-matching path. 20:14:54 sellout: the main thing here is that I feel like generics are a good step in the direction of FP language-like pattern matching 20:15:02 trebor_home pasted "my asd file" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70586 20:15:29 so it would be nice for it to be more flexible, and I don't see why the only specializer should be eql 20:16:11 gigamonkey: maybe you see an obvious error 20:16:19 sykopomp: Well, the reason for it in CL is obviously-deterministic dispatch. 20:16:35 (or, _a_ reason, anyway) 20:17:01 trebor_home: have a look a this, very good intro to packages : http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 20:17:01 In languages like Haskell, you have to specify all the "methods" at once, and they're handled in order. 20:17:36 Having definitions in multiple locations and arbitrary pattern-matching makes determinism interesting (as I've been experiencing). 20:17:52 sellout: ah. So there's no way to be sure which method is going to get checked first... 20:17:52 My current project's slogan is "75% of the time, it works every time" 20:18:04 hm 20:18:10 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:18:18 alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:50 sykopomp: Well, there can be, but you have to be very explicit about how application will be ordered, and it can get non-obvious pretty quickly. 20:19:52 sellout: that sounds troublesome 20:20:19 so it's pretty hard to do this unless you have a compiled language, huh? 20:20:34 meaning -> statically typed, compile-time generation of stuff 20:22:23 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:23:18 -!- doxtor [n=doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:24:44 sykopomp: how does that help? 20:24:58 ahaas: did you investigate using swfmill + cxml to generate flash from CL? that seems the easiest way, imo. 20:25:07 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:25:18 sellout: it does. I guess it's a more complex problem than I originally thought. 20:25:28 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 20:25:57 sykopomp: I still encourage you to explore it, though :) 20:26:03 sellout: do keep me up to date if you find a way to get your dispatching working reliably, I'm sure there's something that can be done :D 20:26:23 yeah, I'll give it thought, too. Maybe give it a shot once I read through AMOP and know what I can actually do 20:26:40 fusss: I'm using swfmill to generate library swfs. I'm just writing the xml by hand b/c it's really just a simple list of assets. 20:26:56 oh, alright 20:26:57 brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:28:25 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:32 ahaas: i'm learning pixel art and spriting right now :-P Tile Studio and Graphics Gale. So much for compiler hacking he? :-P 20:30:18 fusss: So, have you started writing some pixelling software in lisp yet? 20:30:21 fusss: I think perhaps the biggest difference between my own Lisp/Flash interest and some other people's is that I really only care about coding and manipulating the swf files. I'm not interested in creating graphics or animations through code. 20:30:57 I mean 'coding' as in coding to the AVM2. 20:31:06 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:31:21 nyef: what? ASH and LDB not "interactive" enough for ya? 20:31:51 They are if I want monochrome. 20:31:55 ahaas: avm2 code generations; right, parenscript 2 flash stack assembler, or something. 20:32:52 let's just .. hold that thought for another day 20:32:54 auclairb: i read the page (url), but i do not see my error. 20:32:59 milanj- [n=milan@77.46.187.22] has joined #lisp 20:33:17 how/where can i see why the compilation failed? 20:33:20 chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1fb3.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 20:33:53 nyef: i'm sure you can hack on Mirai to generate PNGs :-) 20:34:21 compiling by hand is a) rgl-utils b) percolation c) bmp. 20:36:01 fusss: I briefly considered developing a tool in Lisp for working with animations, but once I started listing the features I realized that there were other tools out there and I should work on other things. 20:36:07 -!- Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-18-95.kosnet.ru] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:36:47 yep, know where to spend your time. 20:36:50 brb 20:38:34 vasa [n=vasa@mm-25-90-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 trebor_home: just looking at your .asd file, it seems that some (all?) of the other files should depend on "bmp-package" 20:40:39 in bmp-package are all defpackage definitions. 20:41:09 Right. And presumably the other files are IN-PACKAGE those packages. So you need to make sure bmp-package is compiled/loaded first. 20:41:11 -!- milan [n=milan@93.86.58.106] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:27 is this done by putting it as first of the components? 20:43:10 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-3-164.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:44:26 Maybe with if you uncommented out the :serial argument. 20:44:38 gigamonkey annotated #70586 with "How I'd expect things to look" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70586#1 20:45:09 I prefer to be explicit about the dependencies. Consequently pretty much every file in a system dependes on the file that defines the packages used in the system. 20:46:20 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 20:46:44 gigamonkey: thanks, reading 20:47:48 The other thing to keep in mind is that the :depends-on in ASDF is really for compile-time dependencies. I.e. if foo.lisp just calls a function define in bar.lisp you don't need "foo" to :depend-on "bar". 20:48:06 Files that use macros defined in other files depend on those other files. 20:48:23 And files that contain methods specialized on classes defined in other files, depend on those files. 20:48:41 And of course, files that need to be read in a package depend on the file where the package is defined. 20:48:55 There are possibly some others, but those are the main ones. 20:53:23 gigamonkey: thanks. 20:54:26 gigamonkey: was the :pathname use ok? 20:54:42 trebor_home: dunno. Why did you put it in? 20:55:13 I've never used it, so I can't say whether you're using it right or not. 20:55:23 the files are in different directories 20:55:47 Ah. I'd think a bit about whether that's really necessary. 20:56:04 Or maybe those other things should be separate ASDF systems which this one can depend on. 20:56:21 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.187.231] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:56:30 Anyway, if this is your first ASDF system and it's not working, then you should probably simplify as much as possible. 20:57:01 If you've gotten simple ones working and now are adding in complications like :pathname, then you just have to figure out what's going wrong. Or find someone familiar with that feature. 21:00:25 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:01:04 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:01:38 jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.187.231] has joined #lisp 21:02:44 -!- jmbr [n=jmbr@87.223.187.231] has left #lisp 21:03:41 dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 21:04:47 deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 Hey, speaking of asdf dependencies, what do you do for files that need to be loaded in order to compile, but that you don't want loaded otherwise? 21:05:41 I've never worried about that. 21:05:48 Fair enough. 21:06:45 I also disagree about the lack of need for dependencies for function use. If you don't do that, you can get undefined-function messages from the compiler, even if the functions would be defined before they are actually used. 21:06:46 Memory's pretty cheap these days, right? 21:07:03 hm. it would help a lot, if there would be any possibility to see what made the compilation to fail. 21:07:31 Memory isn't always cheap. 21:07:36 sure. 21:07:47 But usually it is. Thus my lack of concern. ;-) 21:07:49 I need to create a stream that I can write to. make-echo-stream and make-two-way-stream want me to specify existing streams, and make-string-input-stream wants me to specify a string and won't accept anything else. Alternatively, I need to be able to change an echo-stream or two-way-stream's input or output streams. 21:08:00 nyef: Really. Couldn't/doesn't ASDF wrap a WITH-COMPILATION-UNIT or something around to prevent those warnings? 21:08:06 It seems like it should be possible somehow, but I'm at a loss... 21:08:15 That I don't know. 21:08:24 koning_robot: where do you want the stuff you write to the stream to go? 21:08:30 I'm not that conversant with ASDF. 21:09:01 I want to be able to read it from the stream again (that sounds stupid, but believe me...) 21:09:33 from the same stream or from another stream doesn't matter much 21:09:57 koning_robot: I'd use a string-output-stream to write to then use the resulting string to make a string-input-stream 21:10:05 Make an echo-stream on a synonym-stream? 21:10:10 Right 21:10:47 http://paste.lisp.org/display/66799 21:11:00 gigamonkey: can it be, that the message "compilatio failed" is rubbish, that everything is ok? i tried several functions and they all do work. i am confused 21:11:10 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 21:11:37 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 21:12:16 trebor_home: it's certainly possible. Did you ever try running ASDF:OPERATE by hand? 21:12:26 yes 21:12:31 it resulted nil 21:12:47 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:13:16 bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 That seems okay. 21:13:43 i did (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'bmp-io) 21:14:00 Yeah. I just tried the same on a random system and it returned NIL. 21:14:10 I don't know what it does when things are actually busted. 21:15:28 signals conditions? 21:15:29 Well, here's the situation... I have HTTP requests coming in (GETs to answer, POSTs to read), and I'm trying to abstract all of this away into one two-way stream that I can pass to a thread. So after passing the two-way stream to the thread, I want to be able to connect its input/output streams to the request sockets whenever the requests come in, and have any operations done on the two-way socket be done on the request sockets. So synon 21:15:34 Krystof: seems likely. 21:15:50 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:16:08 trebor_home: is trying to figure out why SLIME is telling him "compilation failed" when all the other evidence points to it actually having succeeded. 21:16:34 er, s/trebor_home: /trebor_home / 21:17:53 Otherwise I might have to pass things through myself, which would be okay, but I just can't figure out how to do that. The important part is that the two-way socket stays the same (because the thread uses it), so a string-stream wouldn't do it because it's too short-lived. 21:18:24 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbb8a89.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:18:51 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-174-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:21:05 chris2 [n=chris@ppp-88-217-78-129.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:40 gigamonkey: ok "compilation failed" seems to mean something like no-need-to-compile-everything-is-up-to-date. 21:23:07 gigamonkey: i get "normal" errors if i put some of them into my sources. 21:23:13 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-3-248.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:23:41 trebor_home: hmm. I get "Compilation finished: 0 errors 0 warnings 0 notes [0.37 secs]" 21:23:55 when loading a system that is already compiled and loaded. 21:24:47 koning_robot: so you're looking for something like the stream you get back from make-two-way-stream except where you can later swap in different input and output streams? 21:27:53 exactly 21:28:20 synonym-stream can do it though.. I just made an echo-stream collapse by connecting it to itself 21:28:41 Yeah, I was just going to say, that seems like exactly what synonym-streams are for. 21:28:44 now to figure out if this is going to fit into the rest of my stuff... 21:29:04 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483EFD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:29:22 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@220-253-11-183.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:29:54 actually I had expected to be able to (setf (echo-stream-input-stream echostream) someotherstream) 21:30:29 but apparently they're not really structures 21:30:47 gigamonkey: maybe its a bug in current slime-asdf.el - everytime everything is ok, i get "compilation failed". 21:31:15 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:31:25 mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 21:32:42 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:33:07 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-99-179-44-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 gigamonkey: warnings from package redefinitions? 21:34:05 Krystof: Dunno. 21:34:26 trebor_home: I just cvs updated SLIME and restarted and I don't get any "compilation failed" messages. 21:35:02 minion: logs 21:35:02 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24) 21:36:35 maskd [i=maskd@unaffiliated/maskd] has joined #lisp 21:36:53 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:34 gigamonkey: hm. i was looking at definition of slime-show-note-counts (notes secs succssp) in slime.el if successp is nil message will contain "failed" (line 3959) 21:38:14 maybe i just cvs-update my slime 21:40:45 Well, if successp is NIL it probably should report failure. The question is why is it NIL. 21:42:34 ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f3268c96b39288d9] has joined #lisp 21:43:20 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:25 ok, now after cvs-updating and restarting slime, everything is fine again. "compilation finished" ... 21:43:57 trebor_home: ta dah! 21:44:10 compeer [n=user@c-6de3e055.31-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:44:41 gigamonkey: being a novice - i should only check-out stable releases, i presume. 21:45:04 gigamonkey: thank you very much for your patience. 21:45:05 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:05 define "stable" :) 21:45:25 trebor_home: I don't know. Back in the day the advice was always to run the laset SLIME out of CVS. 21:45:30 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:34 That's what I still do and it seems to work pretty well. 21:46:04 Certainly if you've got any software out of a CVS repo and it's behaving strangely, it's worth taking a look to see if there's a newer version. 21:47:15 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:48:07 The trick is to update Slime in November/December, and June/July 21:50:10 tcr: Why is that? 21:50:32 *trebor_home* is happy that /me did not have to ask ;) 21:51:48 gigamonkey: the people who nowadays hack slime mostly (heller and me) do so in semester breaks, so cvs should have stabilized again at those two times 21:52:20 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-25-90-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 21:52:28 tcr: figured it was something like that. 21:53:54 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:54:49 Another hurdle... make-synonym-stream wants a symbol that points to a variable, but I need to store this variable somewhere based on an ID (preferably in a hash). I can "solve" this by using something like (eval `(setf ,(intern id) variable)), but have the feeling that there's a great way to do just this that I'm overlooking... 21:55:26 SYMBOL-VALUE 21:56:58 I see that nothing important happened with McCLIM since April. 21:57:15 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 21:58:42 kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 21:59:50 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:59:54 ndpratas [n=sds@lab8p9.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 22:00:06 -!- alley_cat [i=AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:00:13 -!- compeer [n=user@c-6de3e055.31-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:00:23 hi guys 22:00:43 may someone help me here 22:00:47 -!- rread [n=rread@c-76-21-116-77.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:01:21 ndpratas: just write your problem, be specific and patient 22:01:22 i have some kind of project 22:01:52 i'm making a kakuro solver 22:02:14 (like sudoku is a game of paper with numbers) 22:02:27 madnificent [n=user@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:02:37 Look up Peter Norvig's essay on writing a sudoku solver. 22:03:03 hum 22:03:26 Unless, of course, you have some more specific question. 22:04:52 I have a file with my project but when I run it, it gives an error 22:05:22 minion: Advice? 22:05:22 #11932: Holy cow. 22:05:39 ndpratas: you do realize, don't you, that no one is going to be able to help you if you don't tell us what your actual problem is? 22:05:42 minion: Advice on weird? 22:05:42 #11938: If you have `some weird error', the problem is probably with your frobnitzer. 22:07:24 Could someone test my file and see if you discover the error? The functions individually seems to work perfectly but when i call a function wich call the others this give me this error: 22:07:51 *** - FIRST: 0 is not a list 22:07:58 BUT 22:08:20 ndpratas: paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 22:08:25 0 is really isn't a list 22:08:43 You should probably use DEFSTRUCT, or DEFCLASS, to use an aggregated data type instead of lists. 22:08:48 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:08:53 to represent game state, that is 22:09:16 this is a generic error lol. i really need someone to check my file. 22:09:29 tcr: You are no doubt right. But I doubt that's going to help. 22:09:40 ndpratas: paste it the url trebor_home gave you. 22:09:52 ndpratas: You should probably learn how to use the debugger of your Common Lisp implementation of choice 22:09:55 s/it the/it at the/ 22:10:03 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:04 becouse i cant explain 22:10:07 ndpratas: That is look at the backtrace of the error 22:10:11 its too complicated 22:10:31 tcr: are there any good reads about debugging in lisp? 22:10:33 its my first time on lisp 22:10:44 you're probably recursing on input and not checking if CAR of something is an atom, list, or both (i.e. NIL :-) 22:10:54 No one's very good at it the first time. Just take it easy and soon it'll feel great. 22:10:55 ndpratas: are you going to show us your file? 22:10:56 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 22:10:59 madnificent: What's your development environment? 22:11:03 trace dont take me anyware 22:11:17 tcr: emacs 22:11:25 tcr: sbcl + emacs 22:11:33 yes 22:11:37 madnificent, slime? 22:11:38 i would 22:11:46 madnificent: There's a Slime manual. Make sure to look at the one that comes with your source checkout, not the one at the website. 22:11:47 kami-`` [n=user@p4FD38E5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:47 dcrawford: yup 22:11:49 ndpratas: copy & paste your file + error-messages + backtrace + your goals 22:11:50 -!- mindCrime [n=chatzill@216.27.62.2] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9b5/2008043010]"] 22:12:04 read the error message carefully, sbcl has one of the best debug info (ignoring the verbiage) 22:12:17 at http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 22:12:21 -!- deximer [n=deximer@168.203.117.66] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:12:21 tcr: any hints on finding that manual? (this must be the most pathetic question) 22:12:21 ndpratas: but do not paste in the channel, just to make it clear 22:12:21 my file has 131 lines of code lol 22:12:44 so who do I pm? 22:12:57 *stassats* has a strange feeling 22:12:58 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 22:13:00 madnificent: cd slime/; cd doc; make 22:13:10 ndpratas: go to http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 22:13:11 ndpratas: look back at the many lines starting with "ndpratas: " They are people *talking to you* trying to help you. 22:13:28 ok 22:13:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 22:14:01 there are no good books on "C" debugging, only hints, folklore and bitterly earned experience. so why a Lisp book? 22:14:13 do all of you use the default backtrace for sbcl, or do some of you have nifty macros for adding useful info to the backtrace? 22:14:14 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 22:14:15 ndpratas: maybe you can put it on a ftp-server/wiki if it is too large - but maybe you can reduce it to a minimum of code - still reproducing the error. 22:14:19 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:14:40 sykopomp: yes, it's called SLIME 22:14:43 mozzyb [n=mozzyb@196.80-203-61.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:46 mathrick: I use slime :) 22:14:59 well then, it has pretty good backtrace handlers 22:15:05 madnificent: You can come to Munich, 3rd December; I'll give a talk about Slime there. 22:15:07 sykopomp: swank prepends its own crap into the sbcl stack trace 22:15:18 And I'm mostly used to (and happy) with the backtraces I get. But I've also seen some people add stuff like file information, line number of the error, etc. 22:15:22 tcr: where? 22:15:30 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:15:40 so I'm wondering if anyone here actually messes around with that to add more info to the backtraces (I've seen such things before) 22:15:41 *trebor_home* is from near frankfurt 22:15:48 (main) 22:16:05 tcr: thats in the middle of my exams... (If everything would go _really_ good, I'll come :D) 22:16:08 Hi, I was wondering if anybody could answer me: Is ut possible to have 2 outputs from the same function, and if so how? 22:16:20 (return (values first-value second-value)) 22:16:22 mozzyb: values? 22:16:25 mozzyb: yes 22:16:28 tcr: it didn't want to build, but the quick referenc card is here... that will help me for now 22:16:28 clhs values 22:16:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_values.htm 22:16:41 tcr: will you record your talk? 22:16:44 ill check it out. Thanks. 22:16:52 trebor_home: No, I don't think so. 22:17:06 It'll be rather informal, and interactive. 22:17:21 trebor_home: I invite you to come, it's a Wednesday, though. 22:17:42 tcr: will there be other talks about lisp too? 22:18:15 kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:45 The rest of the evening will probably involve the consumption of alcolohic liquids. :) It's a just a meeting of the local Lisp group. 22:18:46 mchurch [n=user@ec2-67-202-38-234.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:32 tcr: at what time will your meeting start? 22:19:52 madnificent, trebor_home: You can subscribe to munich-lisp to get exact information. 22:20:06 trebor_home: Between 19:00 and 20:00. 22:20:10 Can anyone here recommend a good MySQL API? 22:20:31 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1fb3.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:36 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-83-188-217.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 2.0.0.18/2008102918]"] 22:20:51 mchurch: there isn't one (I don't know about the merits of any lisp-specific DB API that only does MySQL) 22:21:20 minion: clsql? 22:21:21 clsql: CLSQL is a Database interface Library for Common Lisp that can access a number of different SQL database engines. http://www.cliki.net/clsql 22:21:25 tcr: i'll try to come (with a lisp-infected collegue) 22:22:27 *trebor_home* is googling for lispers in rhein-main ;0) 22:22:51 ndpratas pasted "kakuro.lisp" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/70602 22:23:23 Thanks. Is CLSQL well-maintained? There was an API I found that looked great but hadn't been maintained since 2004. 22:23:25 -!- inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:23:39 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 22:23:42 trebor_home: I only know of groups in Hamburg, Berlin, and Munich. 22:24:41 mchurch: don't use mysql .. do yourself a favour. 22:24:55 tcr: so it's munich ;) 22:25:27 im here to answer questions 22:26:11 (sorry bad English) 22:26:45 -!- kami-` [n=user@p4FD387F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:27:11 *trebor_home* is reformatting 22:27:15 What's wrong with Mysql? What would you recommend in its place? 22:27:38 *gigamonkey* wonders if paste should just pretty print pasted Lisp code and save us the trouble. 22:28:10 trebor_home: I think it's not so difficult to find Lisp-involving jobs in Munich, fwiw. 22:28:40 mchurch: There is a lot wrong with mysql, not the least of which is license and ownership concerns. postgresql, OTOH, is significantly better, has a wonderful socket API, and isn't borked by design. 22:28:50 ndpratas: I don't see anything that simply explains the error you're getting. Guess you'll have to actually do some debugging. 22:29:55 You might consider tcr's comment about providing a better abstraction. You can even keep using lists but write some functions that abstract what you are doing with those lists. 22:30:16 but i spent 2 days on debugging with prints and everything 22:30:33 tcr: you make sure for me to come to munich on dec 03.... 22:30:36 ndpratas: and in two days all you figured out what what error message it's giving you. 22:30:41 That's good to know. In my case, I'm not making the DB decision, but I've heard great things about PostgreSQL. 22:30:41 ?!? 22:30:44 bombshel1er13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has joined #lisp 22:30:51 For starters, what function is the error occuring in? 22:31:08 in fact i wasnt here if i can do it by my way 22:31:14 ndpratas: did you use TRACE? 22:31:14 ndpratas: Ask your lecturers for help. 22:31:35 in ITERADOR_AUX, called with 3 (0 0 0 0) 22:31:39 YES i used trace 22:31:59 trebor_home: How can I do that? :) 22:33:52 By the way, are there any New Yorkers here? 22:33:58 hum 22:34:02 -!- auclairb [n=auclairb@laborius1.gel.usherb.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:34:04 iterador_aux??? 22:34:12 -!- FZ [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/fz] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 2.0.0.18/2008102918]"] 22:34:23 iterador aux is called by iterador 22:34:49 mchurch: There used to be at least one, haven't seen him since weeks though 22:35:10 dto [n=user@68-187-211-226.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:13 He's probably my co-founder. 22:35:21 I'm just curious about the NYC Lisp scene. 22:35:48 and iterador receives the sum (SOMA) and the numbers of digit (white cases) 22:36:07 mchurch: LispNYC is quite popular AFAIK. 22:36:14 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:36:42 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:43 it is impossible get the sum 3 with 4 digits 22:36:55 only with 2 cases 22:37:08 (1+2) 22:37:29 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:31 Oh, also: can I ask about a bug I think I found, or does that go against the culture here? (I'm a n00b with a capital '0'.) 22:37:35 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-3-248.dip.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 22:37:40 mchurch: they sponsor the 'summer of lisp' stuff, meet frequently to get drunk ^w ^w talk lisp, and are quite googleable. 22:37:45 (0+1+1+1) 22:37:55 Yeah, I'm reading about LispNYC right now. Thanks. 22:38:15 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:38:28 kakuro only can be solved with diferent digits 22:38:34 like sudoku 22:38:54 mchurch ask away.. if it is inappropriate you will be redirected to the proper forum. 22:39:00 diferent in lines and colums 22:39:15 ndpratas: I have no idea what you are talking about. cheers! 22:39:16 Ok. I found a bug in read-from-string. 22:39:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakuro 22:39:30 ndpratas: whatever. I just ran your code and the stack trace shows iterador_aux called with 3 and (0 0 0 0) as a result of a call to (iterador 2 3) which case from a call of (percorre-zeros 3 (0 0)) 22:39:32 (read-from-string "over 9000" :start 5) => 'over 22:39:43 mchurch: in the spec, or a specific implementation of READ-FROM-STRING? 22:39:48 SBCL 22:40:01 hum 22:40:05 1.0.21.34 I think 22:40:09 ok thanks 22:40:19 i will check that right now 22:40:27 ndpratas: weren't you here before under the name 'topo'? 22:40:31 ivarref [n=ivar@sos1-1x-dhcp113.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 22:40:43 no 22:40:56 tcr: coming from belgium for one speech seems a bit overkill 22:40:59 this is allways my nickname 22:41:08 ok 22:41:25 I'm wondering if this was a well-known bug. It calls make-string-input-stream, which works properly. 22:41:48 syamajala [n=syamajal@140.232.177.225] has joined #lisp 22:41:58 So there's probably something wrong in the with-array-data macro it uses, which I haven't been brave enough yet to read through, given that it's a very easy bug to work around. 22:42:46 -!- kgn [n=kglovern@CPE001b11e68946-CM0014f8ca15f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:43:07 -!- dabd [n=dabd@213.22.161.66] has quit [Client Quit] 22:43:19 mchurch: if you have found a bug and have code that can re-create it, sbcl-devel is the right place to post. 22:43:23 mchurch: It's not a bug. 22:43:39 mchurch: You're tricked by the interplay of &optional, and &key. 22:43:40 It's not? 22:44:01 (read-from-string "over 9000" t nil :start 5) 22:44:02 You want to invoke (read-from-string "over 9000" t nil :start 5) 22:44:14 ahh of course.. 22:44:25 Ah, yes. 22:44:40 *drewc* always thought that was a bad design choice. 22:44:52 I see that now. So I have to fill in the &optional arguments before I can use &key. That makes sense. 22:45:11 *tcr* used &optional + &key himself in the past. 22:45:12 drewc: I'm pretty sure everyone always thought that. 22:45:19 I'm not too hot on &optional + &key in the same function, but I'm glad I understand what's happening. 22:45:41 *sykopomp* doesn't use &optional very much at all. 22:45:45 In some cases it just makes sense. 22:46:00 but otherwise it will be not like read or read-line 22:46:06 I actually used &optional + &key in the same function the other day. The &key arguments only make sense in the presence of the sole &optional parameter. 22:46:07 gigamonkey: _somebody_ must have advocated it.. you'd think the opposing view would have come up in committee 22:46:52 drewc: Backward compatibility, for instance. 22:47:29 tcr: yeah, there is that. 22:47:47 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:47:57 chandler: In that case, it's not a problem, and I'd probably do the same thing. 22:48:03 i know i'm happy that i can port all my Maclisp code to CL with only minor source changes. 22:48:45 Looking at MacLisp code always make me warm and fuzzy. All those uppercased PROGs are lovely. 22:48:54 we ended up with a great body of applications and libraries thanks to that backwards compatibility! 22:49:39 Well, at least they were kind enough to mark the really ugly things like REMOVE-IF-NOT deprecated, so that we know to stick to undeprecated features like PROG and BOOLE. 22:49:42 drewc: Yeah, I'm surprised there's no ISSUE about it. 22:49:45 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 22:49:54 (there is probably more FORTRAN->cl code in use than ported Maclisp code these days) 22:50:12 What are PROG, BOOLE, and ISSUE? 22:50:17 clhs prog 22:50:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_prog_.htm 22:50:19 clhs boole 22:50:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_boole.htm 22:50:25 sorry, no autolink for issue 22:50:39 chandler: i was rooting for you... and you let me down! :) 22:50:40 REMOVE-IF-NOT isn't so bad, although I'd prefer it be named something like FILTER. 22:51:04 mchurch: If you don't know what PROG and BOOLE are, you probably did not recognize the dripping sarcasm in my statement. 22:51:10 mchurch: Never! I never know if FILTER is supposed to be REMOVE-IF, or REMOVE-IF-NOT. 22:51:41 KEEP-IF and TOSS-IF 22:51:45 antifuchs: are you arround? 22:51:47 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:51:50 thank you guys 22:51:54 tc-rucho: yeah 22:51:55 gigamonkey: Ooh. I like that. 22:52:12 antifuchs: should I pm you, it's kind of an off topic issue 22:52:24 go ahead 22:52:33 now i have some lights to get my problem solved 22:52:34 gigamonkey: TOSS-IF sounds a little too much like WANK-IF, imo :) 22:52:39 Another question: how do I access the different outputs after I've used values? 22:52:52 mozzyb: that's confused 22:52:58 clhs multiple-value-bind 22:52:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 22:53:08 -!- ndpratas [n=sds@lab8p9.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:53:18 tc-rucho: you aren't accepting my privmsgs (: 22:53:31 damn script 22:53:57 mozzyb: Each multiple return value is printed in its own value by the printer to make you aware that the function is returning multiple values. 22:54:11 grrrr 22:54:17 it's not responding, damnti 22:54:19 misreckoning [n=toroman@79.101.245.164] has joined #lisp 22:54:21 just a second 22:54:23 mozzyb: That output is not a result of the invocation of the function itself 22:54:45 tcr: I've used a values in a function and want another function to access both outputs from the first function. 22:54:53 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-211-152.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:55:19 mozzyb: You can bind multiple return values via MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND, as referenced by chandler. 22:55:20 mozzyb, he already said, mvb 22:55:31 mozzyb: (apply 2nd-fun (values-list (first-fun))) 22:55:46 drewc: uh, multiple-value-call 22:55:55 tcr: yeah. I know. I just wanted to explain what I was doing. 22:56:04 gigamonkey: gah .. i knew there was something better 22:56:12 thanks for the help 22:56:14 minion: multiple-value-call 22:56:15 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``multiple-value-call''. 22:56:20 clhs multiple-value-call 22:56:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_multip.htm 22:56:28 gigamonkey: but i think a smart compiler blah blah blah 22:56:56 ivanst_ [i=ivans@93-138-17-255.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:57:06 drewc: smart compilers aren't usually about making bad code decent :p 22:57:10 a sufficiently smart compiler would already have unleashed killer droids as revenge on its users for all the stupid code it's had to compile 22:57:16 sorry, compilers haven't discovered vowels yet, we only have S.M.R.T. compilers 22:57:17 instead, we get minion 22:57:20 minion: kill drewc 22:57:21 die, drewc 22:57:40 -!- drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has left #lisp 22:57:47 drewc [n=drewc@89.16.166.162] has joined #lisp 22:57:50 :) 22:57:57 it's alive! 22:58:06 -!- drewc is now known as zombie_drewc 22:58:21 braiins 22:58:32 Nah, that was just drewc's death grimace. 22:58:56 sufficiently smart compiiiileeers... 22:59:12 aiee! 22:59:43 -!- zombie_drewc is now known as drewc 22:59:54 and i'm back. I'll do water into wine next, promise. 23:00:20 beer! 23:01:18 water->beer is a lot easier. Add malted barley + yeast, boil, wait, add hops, bottle .... 23:01:32 Phew. I thought he was talking about beer->wine. 23:02:05 the trick is doing water-> (beer|wine) with out any svn:externals 23:02:16 whine(beer^-1) 23:03:08 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 23:03:20 s/whine/wine ;) 23:03:23 -!- mchurch [n=user@ec2-67-202-38-234.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:03:35 dcrawford: drink water to stay alive -> work while alive -> get payed -> buy beer. 23:03:52 "paid" 23:03:54 it's not quite magic .. but it can seem like it with enough beer. 23:03:58 paid! 23:04:01 WTF drewc 23:04:13 well, you talk pretty good for a zombie 23:04:15 i'm not fully recovered from being dead yet. 23:04:27 -!- alec [n=aberryma@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:04:34 "I'm not (un)(un)dead yet!" 23:07:42 -!- teiresias [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 23:08:19 -!- misreckoning [n=toroman@79.101.245.164] has left #lisp 23:11:08 -!- ivanst [i=ivans@93-138-11-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:13:28 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 23:15:21 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"] 23:18:50 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f3268c96b39288d9] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:20:09 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless06.cs.wisc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:20:14 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@190.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:22:10 -!- ivarref [n=ivar@sos1-1x-dhcp113.studby.uio.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:22:23 grkz [n=qsvans@pdpc/supporter/active/grkz] has joined #lisp 23:24:12 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:13 S11001001 [n=sirian@74-137-146-187.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:18 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:35 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei 23:35:29 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:37:34 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-229-68.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 23:40:05 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:42:00 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:35 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.2.203.205] has joined #lisp 23:48:10 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:14 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:58 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 23:50:26 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@5.pool85-49-163.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:29 beaumonta [n=abeaumon@46.pool85-49-166.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 23:51:38 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:51:43 -!- hugo [n=hugo@unaffiliated/hugo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:52:04 hiteki [n=user@206.29.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:18 hello ppl 23:52:55 -!- hiteki [n=user@206.29.100-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:53:12 -!- tc-rucho [n=tc-rucho@unaffiliated/tc-rucho] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 23:53:35 -!- brill [n=brill@0x503e0b40.hrnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:53:51 elurin [n=user@88.254.108.31] has joined #lisp 23:54:08 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-3-248.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:54:18 -!- acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:59:34 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@89-97-102-218.ip17.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Lost terminal"]