00:00:30 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:01:20 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 00:03:54 xreyes [n=xreyes@8.84-48-175.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:52 -!- dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:05:34 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:54 _jpl_1 [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 00:06:01 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 00:06:29 kleppari_ [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 00:07:28 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 00:09:28 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 00:13:07 -!- slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:15:24 -!- jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:16:28 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:52 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:19:10 bah. I forgot a vector was an atom. 00:19:18 Heh. 00:19:41 Riastradh: does the gcc on the system you tried to build SBCL on even produce working executables? 00:19:57 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A24BA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:20:52 damn. no sequencep? 00:21:11 (defun sequencep (x) (typep x 'sequence)) 00:21:13 -!- _jpl_ [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:21:27 yeah yeah... 00:22:34 chandler, yep. 00:22:46 Hm. 00:24:20 disumu [n=disumu@p57A249F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:23 kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 00:27:58 Twilight777 [n=steve@c-76-113-7-71.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:16 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:29:24 -!- kleppari_ [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:29:38 -!- gloaming [n=steve@c-76-113-7-71.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:29:39 -!- mejja [n=user@c-6bbae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:02 -!- _jpl_1 [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:33:14 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:33:26 -!- jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:35:16 in lisp what is the overhead of instantiating an object compared to a struct? for graphics related stuff like vectors/points, polygon, matrices and so on, I'll be creating, copying, transforming and destroying them by the millions, what would be the way to go about it in lisp for a high execution speed? (sorry i know this is a very general question) 00:36:59 xreyes: in sbcl, class instantiation is heavier than structs. According to the manual, at least. 00:38:59 -!- ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-130-125.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:40:15 is the :type argument in slot specifications just a hint? 00:40:37 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.88.87] has joined #lisp 00:40:41 how can i enforce it without having to write a :before method for initialize-instance? 00:40:42 -!- Drakej [n=fred@216-67-85-176-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:41:18 Also note that in lisp, all data is "objects", but not all objects need be instances of standard-class or its subclasses. 00:41:42 fusss: It doesn't get enforced for classes because it can be overridden by a subclass. 00:42:49 xreyes: structs are one less word big then instances, that may matter more. i think speedwise they are not much faster if you have nothing fancy, just simple CLOS instances and accessors on SBCL 00:42:54 appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:44:32 -!- jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 00:45:09 can i enforce type and size with structs, c-like, so functions working on them know what they are getting and run fast without having to figure out the type and size, this is of course only needed on the ones that are the actual bottlenecks 00:45:53 also, is there a way to declaim a whole bunch of functions inline without having to write definlinefun? 00:46:24 (declaim (inline fun-1 fun-2 fun-3)) ? 00:46:36 a-s [n=user@92.80.103.234] has joined #lisp 00:46:37 duuuuuh! 00:46:52 *fusss* is still confused over the difference between declare and declaim 00:47:55 xreyes: why don't you just write some code and profile later? then refactor IF it looks necessary... it works fine for us in lisp. i'd just go with instances and see how things work out... 00:48:43 xreyes: real speed (order of magnitudes) always comes from domain optimizations, but they are impossible if you codebase is clattered with micro-optimizations 00:50:22 xreyes: if you had millions of small structs (in a vector, I assume), it may be smarter to have structs of vectors 00:51:29 i'd just like to get the bread and butter to run fast, which is basically transformations and intersection tests 00:52:28 gloaming [n=steve@c-76-113-7-71.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:26 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:53:29 -!- Twilight777 [n=steve@c-76-113-7-71.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:54:57 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:22 Drakej [n=fred@216-67-9-70-rb2.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:47 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:59:08 xreyes: you can use "the", "declare" and friends to provide type information for the optimizer, but as attila_lendvai says it's best to do this only when and where profiling has shown it to be necessary 00:59:25 mintsoup [n=andar@71.237.89.53] has joined #lisp 01:00:02 what would be a good way to represent a graph structure in lisp? 01:00:26 fusss: i think you will need to use the likes of check-type rather than relying on :type to actually do anything 01:00:52 locklace: yeah 01:01:17 mintsoup: the usual ways graphs are represented; as nested lists or arrays 01:01:30 ... or as a graph. 01:01:53 nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 01:02:46 getha [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 01:02:54 -!- thijso [n=thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:04:19 it would be sort of nice if there was a way to make :type actually do something, eg by declaring there won't be a subclass override 01:04:27 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A249F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 01:04:30 oh i guess i could use cl-graph yay 01:04:34 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 01:07:54 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:08:04 locklace: i would love to be able to tell defclass to: generate -p tester, generate copy- copier, and generate a specialized me for "object=" to compare instances of this class. 01:08:16 practically making classes act like structs 01:09:04 but the last time i extended a builting form, i found out i never really needed it :-P 01:09:49 pierre__thierry [n=pierre@black.delerce.fr] has joined #lisp 01:09:59 won't inheriting from a superclass with these mixins do, fusss ? 01:10:00 i guess it is pretty easy to do that with a macro or the MOP 01:10:32 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.88.87] has quit [] 01:10:34 ..one which provides default methods for -p check .. copy- and object= 01:10:48 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.88.87] has joined #lisp 01:10:51 lnostdal: see, i'm an idiot 01:10:56 :) 01:11:55 locklace: no need for MOP, just shaddow defclass, create your own defclass and call cl:defclass to do most of the work .. then announce your extension here, trying to get it into Alexanderia and quickly discover you're an idiot :-P 01:13:00 locklace, i think SBCL does type-checking-as-assertions for :type for defclass http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Declarations-as-Assertions.html 01:13:01 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:13:14 err .. i meant declarations-as-assertions 01:13:45 bighouse [n=bighouse@modemcable012.160-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:15:45 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:18:32 lnostdal: There are some issues with :type in CLOS 01:18:52 you think it asserts on the :type? 01:19:03 it doesn't appear to to me 01:19:09 i think it does .. hm 01:20:18 only in safe code 01:20:19 -!- froog [n=david@87.192.28.247] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:20:35 -!- pierre_thierry [n=pierre@black.delerce.fr] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:20:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69780 01:22:20 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@202-161-24-136.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:23:28 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69780#1 btw. 01:25:42 lnostdal: sbcl rocks! 01:25:55 yeah, it's great 01:26:07 -!- mintsoup [n=andar@71.237.89.53] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:26:18 it's like having a "Common Lisp v2.0" ... :) 01:26:36 sb-ext: and all the other goodies, contribs and packages and whatnot are great 01:27:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69781 .. not exported .. but cool 01:28:10 bangtree [n=user@pool-71-98-73-58.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:21 ok, that's interesting 01:32:26 -!- bangtree [n=user@pool-71-98-73-58.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:33:25 bangtree [n=user@pool-71-98-73-58.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:41 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:34:45 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@202-161-10-43.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:40:51 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:29 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:34 -!- cipher [n=cipher@inertia.acm.cs.rpi.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:49:45 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:49:52 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 01:50:11 Anyone know where I can get an ECL binary that works with Windows? I can't seem to build from source with Cygwin, possibly because my Cygwin is out of date but I don't know how to update it. 01:52:41 echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-9122f0119b0cf220] has joined #lisp 01:53:04 EtFb: I might be able to build it for ya 01:53:14 let's see if it likes mingw better 01:53:20 fusss: Cool. 01:53:37 I also can't get it to work in Ubuntu 8.04, but one problem at a time... 01:53:54 i only have windows here at work :-S 01:54:48 fusss: Me too, but I bring my Kubuntu laptop with me everywhere I go, because being more than two metres away from a proper shell console makes me itch... 01:55:47 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:55:52 just wondering, why ecl? 01:56:53 fusss: I use SBCL in Windows and Linux pretty much exclusively, but I want to try out ECL because it shows promise for producing small executables and maybe even working with CGI. 01:57:58 c|mell [n=cmell@61.121.210.70] has joined #lisp 02:00:40 _jpl_ [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:02:13 nyef: only classes are instances of standard-class ;) 02:02:21 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 02:02:31 i might need to remove gdb dependency. you will have a hard time making sense of crashes .. i think 02:04:03 fusss: it's like this: `declare' is neither a function, nor a macro, nor a special form, and therefore "(declare ...)" is not a valid expression 02:04:46 some kind of compiler directive? 02:05:16 EtFb: build seems broken. allot of stuff it needs are absent in my mingw 02:05:35 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:05:50 ecl wants a rich GNU environment, where as mingw is pretty minimal 02:05:59 fusss: Ah well, never mind. I'd better get back t owork anyhow. Thanks! 02:06:05 np 02:06:10 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 02:06:31 yes, and as such can only be used in certain contexts; these contexts are defined explicitly in ANSI 02:06:32 clisp has a small footprint as well 02:08:06 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178054167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11:14 -!- nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:13:28 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@202.23.191.59] has joined #lisp 02:15:28 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.103.234] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:16:54 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:16:57 spacebat [n=akhasha@202-161-9-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:22:08 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:24 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 02:22:39 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:24:55 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:25:26 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:57 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 02:26:10 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:26:31 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 02:26:43 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:28:59 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@202-161-24-136.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:32:29 haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has joined #lisp 02:33:06 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@202.23.191.59] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:34:26 wasabi_ [n=wasabi@202.23.191.58] has joined #lisp 02:36:13 mek||malloc [n=mek@c-24-63-142-41.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:00 -!- myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:37:01 -!- Piranha__ [i=jabber-i@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:44:25 Would anyone mind helping me with a simple function? 02:45:27 I am trying to defun POWERSET (a powerset of a list is all the possible combinations of subsets in the list) 02:45:37 And I believe I have the tail recursive solution done correctly... 02:45:42 But my code doesn't quite work. 02:45:53 Maybe I am using an atom incorrectly? 02:45:59 http://pastebin.com/d7d16c465 if anyone is willing to take a loot. 02:46:01 Look* 02:49:53 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:54:35 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-878337aa3a4f8ffa] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:58:03 mek: well you don't cons properly 02:58:43 Am I using Lables correctly? 02:58:48 Or should I be using flet? 02:58:50 |Soulman| [n=kvirc@24.84-49-150.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:59 -!- rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 02:59:06 *mek||malloc* tries to see what's wrong with his cons. 02:59:11 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:27 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:10 Doesn't cons just take a car and a cdr? 03:00:52 (besides the fact that I spelt cdr wrong in the second application of f. 03:00:55 ) 03:03:23 Should I use LIST instead of CONS? 03:04:33 append... but the code you posted has errors 03:04:59 i ll try, seems like a fun function 03:06:25 and where you're using not, it'd be better to use null 03:06:29 which does just that 03:09:03 and anyways, if i understand what you're trying to do, you don't find the powerset, but more like (loop for i on q collect i) 03:09:42 -!- holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:11:37 mek||malloc: does that even evaluate? 03:12:06 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@202.23.191.58] has quit ["Leaving..."] 03:12:08 (fusss: it doesn't) 03:12:09 missing paren, "CRD" 03:12:26 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:55 fusss pasted "this one compiles tho" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69787 03:13:34 your use of labels is correct, as F recurses 03:15:16 to test it, you just need to count the number of elements in its result 03:15:31 Hmm. 03:15:38 how many subsets are there of a list? 03:15:51 remember your combinatorics? n choose r, etc? 03:15:52 Number of elements factorial I suppose? 03:15:55 yes 03:16:21 Did I just have an extra paren? 03:16:26 -!- Soulman [n=kvirc@87.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:16:34 that's one thing emacs would tell you 03:16:47 a missing paren, and a misnamed function 03:17:25 Oh crd instead of cdr? 03:17:57 (I noticed that after I posted -- sorry) 03:18:03 I'll try to give it a test run. 03:19:48 To evaluate powerset of (1 2 3) do I need a tick to avoid evaluation? 03:19:54 (powerset '(1 2 3)) 03:20:37 yes 03:20:45 stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:20:53 t'works! Excellent. Thanks for your help all. 03:22:03 use LIST instead 03:22:09 (powerset (list 1 2 3 4 5)) 03:22:39 Just convention or is there a specific reason the LIST primary function should be used? 03:23:03 NOT x is not the idiomatic way for checking list termination. use NULL for that. 03:23:23 (EQ NULL x) ? 03:23:40 that could work, but why go around like that? 03:23:43 Or just (NULL x) rather 03:23:47 fusss: or ENDP 03:23:50 (if (null q) ...) 03:23:58 rme: yes! even better 03:24:19 you want to communicate intent 03:24:32 brb dinner/cigarettes 03:24:32 -!- tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:24:34 fusss: I really only started using LISP today... So I am extremely amateur. 03:24:39 Sorry for the stupid questions. 03:24:47 it's ok 03:24:50 Thanks again for the help. 03:25:13 np, and get emacs and learn to use it :-) better for long term hacking. 03:25:28 I use emacs for most text editing. 03:25:42 And I have dabbled with elisp. 03:25:54 But not enough to jump into slime, etc. 03:26:07 slime is easy, gotta go for now 03:26:13 Tah tah, thanks again. 03:27:10 you don't need to know elisp to be able to use slime 03:28:03 I never said it was a pre-requisite. 03:28:24 Considering SLIME means The Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs (which I am sure you knew) 03:28:39 I think it is fair suggesting there is some level of coorelation between the two, though. 03:29:18 And since I have very limited LISP knowledge, I thought I'd try to learn the language before jumping ahead. 03:29:25 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:43 and slime will make your jumping much easier 03:30:18 I'm sure it will break my brain, even. 03:30:49 I just haven't had the time to connect all the dots yet. 03:30:53 and you'd better spell Lisp, not "LISP" 03:31:21 ? 03:31:33 Any specific reason? 03:31:56 yes, we have lowercase letters today 03:32:19 I see. 03:32:27 I shall keep that in mind. 03:33:02 by LISP we usually refer to old lisp 03:39:07 stassats: might you know of a way to load/compile CLISP code from a file? 03:39:20 Is there a macro in CLISP to perform load from a file? 03:39:28 clhs load 03:39:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 03:39:33 clhs compile-file 03:39:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp_fi.htm 03:39:45 Hey, thanks alot. I appreciate it. 03:41:16 mek||malloc: and by clisp we usually refer to a particular common lisp implementation---GNU CLISP 03:41:30 Indeed I am using GNU CLISP 03:43:45 -!- cmeme [n=cmeme@boa.b9.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:45:55 -!- BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:45:55 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:39 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:02:36 happycodemonkey [n=carriear@147.226.224.2] has joined #lisp 04:08:40 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 04:09:19 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 04:13:06 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:54 mgr_ [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 04:16:24 ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has joined #lisp 04:18:09 -!- ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has left #lisp 04:18:14 -!- inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:24:54 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:27:20 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:27:42 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:27:51 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:28:18 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-14-117.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 04:29:06 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 04:29:58 -!- mgr [n=mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:32:52 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:35:18 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:35:43 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:52 Modius_ [n=Modius@ppp-70-251-185-93.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:46 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- Modius [n=Modius@ppp-70-251-185-93.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- bougyman [n=bougyman@bougyman.com] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- keram [n=oof@unaffiliated/keram] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:42:46 -!- defn [i=tao@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-42fc70c071c06f11] has quit [wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 04:44:56 -!- stassats [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:45:01 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 04:45:46 bougyman [i=bougyman@bougyman.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:46 l_a_m [n=lam@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 04:45:53 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 04:47:08 timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 04:47:11 -!- VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:48:54 VityokOrgUa [n=user@193.109.118.130] has joined #lisp 04:49:04 notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has joined #lisp 04:49:20 BrianRice [n=water@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:19 Good morning. 04:52:23 http://paste.lisp.org/display/69789 04:52:23 notsonerdysunny, memo from matimago: about "eq, eql, equal, equalp", have a look at http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 04:52:25 arbscht_ [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:52:43 Hi Minion I found out how it works thanks .. 04:53:23 I just posted a code at the above link .. can you please tell me how to get '(1 2 3 4) instead of (1 2 3 4) in the return value? 04:53:38 notsonerdysunny: what is :from-end 0? 04:53:41 jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:49 -!- mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:53:51 defn [i=tao@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ce87efb9628d27d1] has joined #lisp 04:53:54 mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has joined #lisp 04:53:58 It will start the reduce operation from the end of the list 04:54:06 instead of the beginning 04:54:10 why `0'? 04:55:10 I am not sure .. but I have tried using it with no arguments .. it did not run .. when I gave it zero it seemed to do what I wanted on simpler cases... 04:55:29 notsonerdysunny: have you read the Common Lisp HyperSpec page? 04:55:40 no 04:55:46 clhs reduce 04:55:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 04:55:59 stopgo [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:14 -!- stopgo [n=stopgo@c-67-180-49-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:56:23 oh I just have to say t 04:56:27 thanks for that .. 04:57:35 keram [n=oof@cpe-76-87-179-96.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:03 beach: did you get my problem in the code I posted? 04:58:11 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:38 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.240] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:59:24 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 04:59:29 -!- mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:59:32 mcxx [n=mcxx@213.151.89.55] has joined #lisp 05:01:21 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:03:58 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:05:20 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:07:16 notsonerdysunny: I always start by looking at superficial things before trying to understand the code. 05:07:49 notsonerdysunny: you want the return value quoted? 05:08:55 notsonerdysunny: stick another quote in there then: ''(1 2 3 4 5) 05:09:37 -!- segv [n=mb@p4FC1E1A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:09:39 segv_ [n=mb@p4FC1C64D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:42 but I want it to work like a macro .. 05:11:05 user should just be able to say '(1 2 3 4) when he calls the macro 05:11:29 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:11:33 just like any other sequence where he would say #(1 2 3 4) or "hello" 05:15:11 as far as I can tell, you should have gotten the quote there. 05:16:51 oh, I'm sorry, you are using a function 05:17:15 Since map-permute-macro is a function, it evaluates it's arguments. 05:17:26 (strange name for a function) 05:17:53 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 05:18:02 now strings and vectors like "hello" and #(1 2 3 4) are self-evaluating, whereas conses are not. 05:18:30 so '(1 2 3 4)(which is the same as (quote (1 2 3 4)) is evaluated, and the value is (1 2 3 4). 05:18:49 This problem will go away, when you turn map-permute-macro into a macro. 05:19:34 hefner: did you see this: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/fonts.png 05:23:55 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:14 -!- notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has left #lisp 05:27:21 notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has joined #lisp 05:27:45 evening 05:27:54 -!- notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092510]"] 05:27:57 hello slyrus_ 05:28:30 hey beach. I finally got (for relatively trivial cases anyway) TIFF file writing going. 05:28:53 slyrus_: Nice! 05:29:04 slyrus_: What's the URL again? 05:29:29 http://git.cyrusharmon.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=retrospectiff.git 05:31:06 are you sure? 05:32:25 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:32:42 hrm... it was working a minute ago. 05:34:10 try now. not sure why it broke :( 05:34:27 ah, much better 05:35:14 *slyrus_* finds it odd that the cffi darcs repo is checked into h4ns' ediware repo :) 05:36:10 slyrus_: things seem incredibly slow. Can I just clone the repsitory? 05:36:29 beach: git clone git://git.cyrusharmon.org/pub/git/retrospectiff.git 05:36:47 Yeah, doing it right now. 05:36:50 sorry 'bout the slowness 05:38:09 -!- mek||malloc [n=mek@c-24-63-142-41.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:39:08 did you steal the lzw implementation from some C code? 05:39:26 heh 05:39:51 does it look that way? no, I stole it from the pseudocode in the spec 05:40:00 ah, OK. 05:41:02 Superficially, the code looks fine to me. How hard do you want me to look? :) 05:41:42 Also, I wonder how many times we have written functions to read multi-byte integers for little- and big-endian byte streams. 05:42:28 Seems to be a good candidate for some general-purpose library, like Alexandria (perhaps it is already in there). 05:44:00 yeah, I agree! the bit-array stuff would also be nice to have in a standard-ish library. 05:44:47 oh, and speaking of candidates for alexandria, check out the {vector,string}-contents-of-stream functions in util.lisp. things I find myself wanting periodically. 05:44:49 I didn't see any bit-array stuff. What does it do? 05:44:58 -!- Partyzant [n=Partyzan@rps312.ovh.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:45:52 check out bit-array.lisp. It has two functions set-bits and get-bits and is what I use for getting/setting the variable length "characters" for the lzw implementation. 05:45:54 slyrus_: yeah, I agree. 05:46:01 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@202-161-12-164.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:46:39 yes, I see what you mean about the bit-array. 05:47:52 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:52 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:50:56 You say you are going to "play around with both ideas" but you seem to develop only one of them. 05:51:16 yeah, I was going to :) developed only one. 05:51:47 I think ldb/dpb is the way to go. 05:51:55 I'd be happy to be proved wrong though. 05:52:31 slyrus_: I am not quite sure I see the ussue from your description. I mean, your quotation only says the equivalent of "bits are grouped into bytes". 05:54:42 well, yeah, sure, bits are grouped into bytes, but the issue comes in figuring out how to store variable bit-length characters in those bytes 05:55:05 -!- Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:55:25 slyrus_: I understand, yes. And so what was the main reason for not going with a bit array? Or a bit vector even? 05:55:56 the mapping from the bit vector to the 8-bit bytes that I eventually need to write out to the stream 05:56:23 slyrus_: Did you think it might be too slow to just loop over each bit? 05:56:45 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:57:10 looping over the bit isn't the problem. the problem was that I still needed to construct a byte from the bits. seemed easier to just work with a vector of unsigned bytes and use ldb/dpb. 05:57:27 Ah, OK. 05:57:34 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@202-161-9-111.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:57:54 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 05:57:56 essentially, I would have been rewriting ldb/dpb, right? 05:58:05 I suppose so. 05:58:06 seemed better to use the built in functions. 05:59:12 ... unless we had a library function for reading and writing bit vectors from and to streams. 06:00:46 yeah, I guess that would be nice 06:00:49 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@61.121.210.70] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:00:51 -!- _jpl_ [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:01:08 Anyway, I shall have to take a closer look later. I need to get some work done. 06:01:10 seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E46FF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:21 ok, thanks! 06:01:48 slyrus_: By the way, did you see my font experiment? 06:02:04 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:02:05 briefly. looked cool! did you publish the code? 06:02:11 not yet. 06:02:24 I'll play around some more first. 06:02:56 ok, let me know when you do. I'm always looking for more modern, well-written example clim apps to learn from. 06:03:06 Will do. 06:03:19 *beach* attacks his accumulated email. 06:03:20 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 06:03:21 welp, got a ton of multi-&rest pattern matching code, now time to tweak the gf dispatch to make unify pick it up 06:04:20 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:06:15 Partyzant [n=Partyzan@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:33 -!- existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:06:44 mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 06:11:13 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.198.104] has joined #lisp 06:12:07 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-124-36-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:02 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.198.104] has left #lisp 06:14:04 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.198.104] has joined #lisp 06:14:56 -!- seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47923.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:21:36 -!- birdsbite [n=user@75.110.164.248] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:27:06 -!- ausente is now known as dalton 06:27:11 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:33:49 hmmm 06:35:34 sucks when i can do something with cl-vecto but can't do it in photoshop or paint.net :-S 06:47:46 -!- aja [n=aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [""I am going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.""] 06:56:38 Piranha__ [i=jabber-i@2002:c6ca:19fb:80b:f085:2dff:fec7:1dee] has joined #lisp 06:57:07 woah! haha, some douche bags are recruiting programmers in, among other languages, Lisp and Unlambda :-P 06:57:16 is this a horrible joke? 06:57:33 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sof/892388339.html 07:00:32 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:02:17 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:36 *slyrus_* thought fusss was a bit over the top until he read "You're probably used to being the smartest developer on your team"... 07:04:35 i think the dev team doesn't wanna grow, and when HR asked for a blurb, they threw in that funny language, "smalltalk". 07:05:17 I'm getting pretty used to being the dumb programmer on the team. 07:05:54 kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 07:06:49 try being the only one :-S 07:08:43 *sykopomp* thinks being a single dev sucks. 07:09:49 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:09:59 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:10:09 Woo! I'm the stupid dev. 07:10:15 enigmus_ [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:46 Or was. When I was on a developmenty project. 07:11:21 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:11:28 Tordek [n=tordek@host67.190-227-44.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:12:06 mogunus: *points to /q* 07:12:22 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12:42 -!- enigmus [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:13:32 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:13:32 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:13:57 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-124-36-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:14:17 rincewind [n=rincewin@e178239236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:14:30 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-133-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:10 morning. 07:19:46 -!- rincewind [n=rincewin@e178239236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 07:22:42 brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:23:24 morn 07:27:01 hello tic 07:27:24 gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:27:36 -!- vcgomes[away] [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:29:24 vcgomes[away] [n=vcgomes@li17-238.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:29:51 -!- brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:30:04 brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:30:55 -!- brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:01 brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:31:08 -!- brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:31:13 brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:33:05 -!- brandelune [n=JC@pl044.nas933.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 07:33:32 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-26.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:53 bdowning_ [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:21 rincewind [n=rincewin@e178239236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:36:27 _bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:44 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:38:14 -!- _bdowning is now known as bdowning 07:38:18 -!- bdowning_ [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:39:07 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-71-138-133-42.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["leaving"] 07:40:32 kami- [n=user@p4FD388E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:40:39 good morning 07:42:42 -!- ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has left #lisp 07:43:43 -!- rincewind [n=rincewin@e178239236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 07:44:07 anybody have a calculator make with lisp? 07:44:22 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:44:22 Lisp *is* a calculator. 07:44:44 with Polish notation! 07:44:47 a calcular emulate programm 07:44:57 calculator* 07:45:05 *sykopomp* is using lisp as a calculator right now 07:45:06 dalton: Oh, you want a dumbed-down version with a GUI? 07:45:22 beach: not 07:45:22 dalton: Check the McCLIM Examples. I think there is one there. 07:45:52 beach: i wanna the program for the common user 07:46:18 like Calc in windows 07:46:22 dalton: Like I said then. But you know, it's a mistake to think that common users are impossible to train. 07:46:39 dalton: I don't use Windows, and I am surprised thre are people who still do. 07:46:51 beach: what do you use? 07:47:00 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-106-128-43.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:47:04 dalton: Ubuntu GNU/Linux 07:47:20 dalton: I suspect the one in the McCLIM distribution is going to correspond to your needs. 07:47:31 run in win? 07:48:12 dalton: You just added another requirement. I don't know since I don't use Windows, don't care about it, and (like I said) am surprised there are still people using it. 07:48:48 dalton: the example in the McCLIM distribution is 136 lines of Lisp code. 07:49:11 the_unmaker [n=Administ@cpe-76-166-187-100.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:49:27 ... of which 30 or so are the copyright statement :) 07:49:32 beach i am from brasil, in here lisp not usual 07:50:29 dalton: I like Brazil. People there seem proud of their country. You should work to make Lisp more common and Windows less common in your country. 07:50:54 I think brazil is one of the countries with public schools using linux 07:51:01 like Mother Russia 07:51:41 but here most user from linux uses C language 07:51:46 sykopomp: not very long ago, there was a report on TV about the first PCs ever sold in Cuba, and it was clear from the report, they all ran Windows :( 07:51:53 so lisp can add features from most any language.......and it has clos........so can clos do things like an oo database? 07:52:04 I saw smalltalk 80 has a squeak implementation 07:52:15 Im wondering how simple it is to do those things in lisp..... 07:52:23 beach: that's because microsoft is a beacon of charity. Look how warm and fuzzy they are, granting free licenses of their popular operating system to those in need :) 07:52:47 sykopomp: Right, that must be it. I must have just missed it. :) 07:53:07 beach: Gates is very keen on reminding people about how charitable him and microsoft are. 07:53:21 Like that talk he gave about how the duty of the rich is to do business through charity or some such. 07:53:28 sykopomp: yeah, I am just surprised nobody thinks about where the money came from. 07:53:38 Anyway... 07:53:44 I like lisp 07:53:44 *beach* needs to take off for work. 07:53:47 lisp should be more popular 07:54:12 _jpl_ [n=John@76-191-142-187.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:15 lisp language are complex to begin cause the family have many options 07:54:17 sykopomp: ah, but then we would get hords and hords of clueless newbies and not so newbies here on #lisp. 07:54:41 dalton: on the contrary, I think the Lisp semantics are simpler than C. 07:55:24 beach: newbies are just experts waiting to be told to RTFM 07:55:31 :) 07:55:32 of course, most people who program in C don't care about respecting the semantics. Few of them have even read the spec. 07:55:33 beach: but C only C. and lisp are many 07:55:34 unfolding 07:55:55 dalton: the situation is not too different in the rest of the world, mind you. 07:56:07 ... but now I *really* do have to go. Talk to you later. 07:56:14 beach: shoo! 07:56:16 rsynnott [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 07:56:57 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:56:59 the only way to know is 07:56:59 practicing 07:57:33 dalton: maybe you should find yourself a nice project to have fun with, hm? 07:57:38 by find I mean start one up 08:00:33 sykopomp: i find it 08:01:02 is clos hard 2 learn? 08:01:06 dalton: good! If you have questions, throw them our way. Have you found a satisfactory text to get into lisp with? Or are you already familiar? 08:01:30 the_unmaker: no. Grab a book. CLOS is huge, but you can pretty much cover most of the stuff you need pretty quickly. 08:01:52 the_unmaker: PCL has a fun little primer on it, and you can also grab Keene for an entire book on the subject. 08:03:03 sykopomp: paul graham is the pope of lisp? i found one text put i not yet start to read it 08:03:15 dalton: let's not go into that matter. 08:03:32 dalton: Some people like PG's ANSI CL book 08:03:59 dalton: but the more highly recommended ones are CLtL2 and PCL, also Gentle Introduction 08:04:53 nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:05:59 the_unmaker: i learned CLOS in a weekend 08:06:15 fusss: CLOS is a fairly big thing. 08:06:18 sykopomp: CLtL2 and ANSI CL. what the difference? 08:06:35 -!- bobbysmith0071 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:06:40 sykopomp: not for basic use. it's simple. just three forms to learn about. 08:06:48 dalton: ANSI CL is not the same kind of text. It's more of a general intro to a non-idiomatic version of CL that PG tries to sell. 08:06:54 dalton: CLTL2 reads like a verbose reference. 08:07:08 dalton: CLtL2 describes the language. 08:07:19 minion: tell dalton about pcl 08:07:20 dalton: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 08:07:43 dalton: to be honest, you won't find a lot of love for ANSI CL here. 08:08:06 good morning 08:08:07 i start to see. 08:08:11 nikodemus_: morning 08:08:34 dalton: grab some books. Kick back, and get reading. We can't do much for you otherwise, and politics discussions get old fast. :) 08:09:33 CLtL2's index vs Scheme: discuss .. ;-) 08:09:48 good morning 08:09:59 may I ask a tiny bit about lisp and web serving? 08:10:21 minion: tell the_unmaker about hunchentoot 08:10:25 i hear that the complex programs by nasa uses lisp 08:10:31 this is the anti-lisp channel 08:10:31 the_unmaker: look at hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 08:10:33 it's true? 08:10:34 didn't you guys hear 08:10:43 -!- fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-212-123.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:10:46 harlequin lispworks 08:11:12 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:11:31 hmmm funky name 08:11:35 -!- rsynnott_ [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:11:44 does it mean something in like norweigan? 08:11:48 minion: tell the_unmaker about uncommon web 08:11:48 the_unmaker: look at uncommon web: ucw: UnCommon Web is a Common Lisp web application development framework. http://www.cliki.net/ucw 08:11:59 Oreilly - Hackers And Painters by PG, what this book talk about? 08:12:29 dalton: essays be Paul Graham. you can read them all on his site. google. 08:12:47 the_unmaker: i can vouch for hunchentoot. works for me. 08:13:05 the_unmaker: there are other web servers/web frameworks out there 08:13:22 the_unmaker: look on cliki for that, and other apps 08:13:30 minion: tell the_unmaker about cliki 08:13:30 the_unmaker: look at cliki: CLiki is a free collaborative hypertext (Web) authoring program, written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cliki 08:13:40 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:13:47 sykopomp do you read this book by pg? 08:14:26 dalton: no. I have read some of his essays. 08:14:38 fusss it's 08:14:38 obvious 08:14:40 ok 08:14:49 are hunch and uncommon like maintained? 08:14:59 hard to find dates of release.... 08:15:00 the_unmaker: yes. They are both quite actively maintained. 08:15:05 are they decently fast etc? 08:15:07 and you can find the devs in this channel 08:15:08 oh cool 08:15:26 you can actually find support for them both right in here 08:15:27 hunchtoot is Ediware, excellent! 08:15:37 I also saw that fastcgi has a binding....where would I read on howto do dynamic fastcgi pages w common lisp and liek nginx? 08:15:40 fusss: it is? Or is it just on edi's site? 08:15:45 ok 08:15:57 sykopomp: no, edi wrote the whole thing 08:16:05 fusss: nice. 08:16:07 so if I bone up on my lisp and read some stuff I can do dynamic site pretty well w lisp 08:16:07 but it's comaintained with Hans, I think 08:16:26 the_unmaker: yes. There's a lot of choice, and a lot of support 08:16:30 lol u said bone 08:16:33 jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has joined #lisp 08:16:49 do obama approves lisp? lol 08:16:58 OBAMA! 08:17:01 the_unmaker: i have a simple "time" server that displays the current time in html/js and also implements an NTP server in half a page 08:17:13 if obama used only lisp I woulda voted for him 08:17:26 are obama a puppet from anybody? 08:17:34 dalton: por favor 08:17:41 implements a ntp server in half a page? wow 08:17:46 fusss: good 08:17:50 I think thats a lik 1meg package from redhat 08:18:18 not to spec; cheap string based "echo" server 08:18:31 trebor_win [n=none_ask@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:58 lyah I never got why peple freak out about ntp 08:19:10 it like use a shell to read it offa one box 08:19:15 and have all boxes read same box 08:19:20 and make that box have right time 08:19:21 jeeesh 08:19:29 mole hills man 08:20:40 okay. Guys. This is a lisp channel. This is not #politics, and it's not #paulgraham 08:20:46 fe[nl]ix [n=algidus@88-149-210-173.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 08:20:55 so. Lisp questions, or go to bed, or go hack. Or something. 08:21:36 lol 08:21:44 Please :) 08:21:47 but paul graham immerse on lisp 08:22:17 -!- Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:22:22 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:24:36 eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:24:48 -!- Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-154-66.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:25:20 Tristam [n=Tristam@ip98-169-154-66.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:31 -!- holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:25:47 -!- cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 08:27:46 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 08:29:21 aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:33:20 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire."] 08:35:03 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.198.104] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:37:23 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:57 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:42:21 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:43:05 -!- bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:43:49 bdowning [n=bdowning@c-98-212-138-194.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:08 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 08:44:42 ok 08:44:56 does anyone have a working lisp dns implementation? 08:45:10 I saw one made by a frans guy but didnt save the page 08:46:26 -!- Piranha__ [i=jabber-i@2002:c6ca:19fb:80b:f085:2dff:fec7:1dee] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:41 Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-16-118.kosnet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:48:10 the_unmaker: iolib may have some 08:48:56 iolib? 08:49:44 the_unmaker: you should really refer to cliki more often. 08:51:55 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:54 -!- jlf` [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:26 cliki is not nicely organized but ill try now 08:53:32 splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has joined #lisp 08:53:34 morning 08:54:01 http://www.cliki.net/IOlib 08:54:04 ah here 08:55:08 morn splittist 08:55:28 hsaliak_ [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:55:28 kami-` [n=user@p4FD38A7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:55:55 good morning. 08:56:58 drakej1 [n=drakej@208.79.15.100] has joined #lisp 08:57:08 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:58:13 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:59:10 -!- hsaliak [n=hsaliak@cm89.sigma229.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:59:41 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:59:41 kib2_ [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:58 slava [n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:02 chandler: nice work on the sbcl binaries 09:01:07 chandler: are you running netbsd/ppc in an emulator/ 09:04:11 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9A7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:05:21 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:10:05 -!- kami- [n=user@p4FD388E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:13:28 athos [n=philipp@p54B86585.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:24 S11001001: Are you there? 09:14:48 -!- kami-` is now known as kami- 09:15:58 -!- nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:22:27 -!- trebor_win [n=none_ask@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:23:07 AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #lisp 09:23:07 trebor_w_ [n=none_ask@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:24:03 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:39:59 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:40:44 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit ["leaving"] 09:41:10 good morning 09:41:17 g'day 09:45:22 -!- mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has quit ["leaving"] 09:45:39 mogunus [n=marco@173.9.7.10] has joined #lisp 09:49:42 uffff 09:51:08 accidently closed one of those floating tool in a photo editor and there is no way to bring it back 09:51:21 don't i just love gui programmers 09:52:11 -!- jao [n=user@72.Red-79-155-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:53:25 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:36 What's the topic of the day? 09:54:42 -!- drakej1 [n=drakej@208.79.15.100] has left #lisp 09:55:32 -!- enigmus_ [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:52 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 10:04:11 varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:05:33 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:05:53 nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:06:04 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:07:58 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.88.87] has quit [] 10:10:07 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-9122f0119b0cf220] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:12:14 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:13:33 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:15:57 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:16:39 'moin 10:18:26 rincewind [n=rincewin@141.89.226.149] has joined #lisp 10:21:34 The topic of the day is my stupidity with FORMAT' 10:21:35 -!- the_unmaker [n=Administ@cpe-76-166-187-100.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:22:39 knobo [n=user@cartman.nextra.no] has joined #lisp 10:23:17 -!- rincewind [n=rincewin@141.89.226.149] has left #lisp 10:27:31 oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-180-107-28.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:05 schme_, mhm? 10:29:29 tic: I was doing something along the lines of (format "~:[~a~;~1*~a.." (< foo bar) "blabla" "green beans!!!") 10:29:33 but 10:29:39 eh 10:29:43 With a t in there 10:29:45 (format t ...) 10:29:57 But I had somehow ended up with 10:30:18 (format t "~:[~a~;~1*~a.." t (< foo bar) "blabla" "green beans!!!") 10:30:21 so that was all fun 10:30:28 oh ~] at the end too. 10:30:40 either way the t there that I totally didn't notice fucked stuff up ;) 10:30:52 15 minutes wasted time! 10:30:53 yay 10:30:54 *sykopomp* has horrible nightmares about format 10:32:08 I guess it's charming in some way :) 10:33:20 I found matimago's idea that the point of format is to be able to keep natural data structures while using un-natural format strings... 10:33:30 but he put it better. 10:33:35 On another issue I'm a bit puzzled by what mcclim is doing with my displaying. I have a pane here, I do some formatting-table output.. giving me ~10 lines of stuff. So all is good. 'cept it likes to make each line just 3 characters long, with stuff linewrapping to another line ('cause the text is generally 20 chars long) 10:33:50 until after the first redisplay where everything is just fine and it does 30 chars / row. 10:34:15 Why on earth is this crazyness so? 10:36:43 schme_: with an apology; I wondered for a brief moment why you were being puzzled by mccain's actions, and what those actions had to do with displaying. 10:36:58 Ok I do somewhat understand why this crazyness is so, I am more interested in how to get past it. 10:37:02 sykopomp: Who? 10:37:17 schme_: no one of importance. blame my bad eyesight. 10:37:25 Cools :) 10:37:33 GET A BIGGER FONT! 10:37:45 it's already quite big 10:37:50 I read something in the newspaper yesterday about some mccain. Someone was putting up signs. 10:37:52 or so I thought. 10:37:53 Hmmm. 10:37:59 Didn't seem so important though. 10:38:08 old news. honestly. 10:38:11 I should go to bed 10:38:14 good night, lispers 10:38:58 night :) 10:40:26 This is the issue I'd like to not have: http://imagebin.ca/view/jND4_o.html , I assume I somehow need to postpone the first display of the pane until the formatting actually has been done ? 10:42:18 do you have a :min-width on the cells? 10:42:47 Aaaah. 10:42:50 No. 10:42:54 :) 10:43:07 g'day everyone 10:44:02 (I'm not saying that it's the right solution, but it might help. The spec talks about "as wide or high as is necessary to contain the cell's contents", and I have no idea what that could mean for text, which can have multiple lines.) 10:44:04 g'day 10:44:41 Me neither.. 10:44:50 It seems to just be right after a redisplay though. 10:45:34 if you ask me, don't use those funny CLIM functions at all, or at least not directly. 10:45:36 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-180-107-28.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:45:47 Instead build an HTML table and let Closure figure it out. 10:47:20 That sounds complicated. 10:48:17 They would still be normal presented objects then? 10:48:18 schme_, FORMAT is crazy. 10:48:25 (I mean the entries in the pane there) 10:48:27 schme_: did you try changing the end-of-line action of your pane? 10:48:36 spiaggia: Nope. 10:48:36 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Operation timed out] 10:48:51 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/29-4.html#_1673 10:49:09 and I'm not sure how I'd run closure in a single pane just to present some objects :) 10:49:31 (also learning HTML seems a pain ;) ) 10:49:58 Hmmm.. 10:50:03 spiaggia: I'll try those out. 10:50:52 ouch. 10:50:56 still not so nice. 10:51:07 RENDER-HTML in http://www.lichteblau.com/git/?p=clim-alerts.git;a=blob;f=interface.lisp;hb=HEAD encapsules the bizarre closure hacking required to do that. Just call it. 10:51:07 It just truncates 'em down to 3 chars :) 10:51:35 lichtblau: I'll take a look at that. 10:51:45 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:51:47 slhs special-p 10:51:59 As long as I still can have the objects presented and draggable etc. all is well. :) 10:52:03 clhs special-p 10:52:03 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for special-p. 10:52:09 (and as long as I don't need to write any html) 10:52:17 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 10:53:16 shit that seems complicated. 10:53:38 sorry to ask such an easy question, how to i test a symbol like 'LET to see if its special, since goolging "lisp special" is so many "spcial functions" but not the predicates for finding them 10:54:17 schme_: did you try both :allow and :scroll? 10:54:22 lichtblau: How is this easier than using formatting-table ? :) 10:54:23 Well, I found (CHTML:WITH-ELEMENT "table" ...) to be less painful and more featureful than (CLIM:FORMATTING-TABLE ...), but obviously everyone has different goals and comes from a different background. 10:54:51 spiaggia: I couldn't find anything mentioning :allow. Where's that? 10:55:05 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/15-4.html#_817 10:55:07 DATA-CONTENTS in http://www.lichteblau.com/git/?p=clim-alerts.git;a=blob;f=imaps.lisp;hb=HEAD is an example of how I use that to render email headers. 10:55:35 lichtblau: Well I dunno. All I want here is stuff displayed on one line, other stuff on next line, etc. 10:57:14 (and of course have the displayed objects be clickable and draggable etc.) 10:57:41 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:57:43 dmiles_afk: special-operator-p 10:57:48 Links in closure are clickable presentations. 10:58:11 I wasn't aware of easy, magical draggability in McCLIM at all, but great to hear that it's there. :-) 10:58:34 locklace, ah thanks 10:58:42 easy I am not sure, but I remember something about dragging translators. 10:58:57 lichtblau: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/edit/apropos?q=drag 10:59:31 I'll look at that closure thing though. 10:59:32 -!- lyte_ [n=lyte@60-242-109-30.tpgi.com.au] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 11:00:25 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.193.194] has joined #lisp 11:00:48 b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:00:59 spiaggia: Seems the same deal with :allow 11:01:16 http://www.lichteblau.com/tmp/email.png is what the output of the DATA-CONTENTS function mentioned above looks like. All thanks to pretty closure-powered CSS. 11:02:00 lichtblau: That's beautiful. 11:02:24 I'm not convinced it's quite what I want, but beautiful :) 11:02:32 I'll look at it some day ;) 11:03:14 It does make sense to use it for displaying the calendar. 11:03:16 -!- nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:03:18 spiaggia: thanks 11:03:39 -!- b4 [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 11:04:56 lichtblau: Is it possible to bake in accept stuff in that there output too? So I can drag an object over to it ? 11:06:21 nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:07:52 schme_: can you show us the output you get with :allow and :scroll? 11:07:53 I think that it shouldn't be hard to hack anything into the closure renderer that could be drawn using usual CLIM functions, too. But so far the with-output-as-presentation use for links is the only example of that I'm aware of. 11:08:21 spiaggia: Well it's the same output. 11:08:40 schme_: that would be very surprising because in your output it really does wrap. 11:09:05 spiaggia: Ah sorry. No, not that. It just displays the first couple of characters of the stuff. 11:09:07 schme_: I am assuming that the issue is with the text output in the upper-right pane, right? 11:09:10 spiaggia: and cuts it there. 11:09:15 Ya that's it. 11:09:41 lichtblau: The more I think of it, it sounds like a great idea. I'm just bothered by that I might have to learn html and css :) 11:09:43 -!- ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["night"] 11:10:21 schme_: what if you add a horizontal scroll bar on that pane. 11:10:58 No, that is what I want to avoid. 11:11:11 ah, OK. 11:11:42 :min-width on the cells seems not to do what I want either. 11:11:43 but eeh. 11:11:48 I'll postpone this 11:11:50 :) 11:11:52 schme_: and do you generate the output in a display-function at each iteration of the command loop? 11:12:05 spiaggia: Yup. 11:12:26 schme_: does it do the right thing the second time around? 11:12:31 just implement
and in closure. You'll be famous -and- knowledgeable about these closure internals in no time. 11:12:42 spiaggia: Yup. 11:12:43 Hi. I'm having trouble finding out where t_cons is defined in ECL? 11:12:53 I've #include 11:12:59 spiaggia: It's not a big issue, just mildly annoying :) 11:13:17 but I get error: 't_cons' was not declared in this scope, for every use of t_cons? 11:13:17 lichtblau: The allure of planet.lisp fame... 11:13:22 schme_: OK. I was going to suggest you call redisplay-frame-panes explicitly once to get it right then. 11:13:59 Ya... I just have no idea how to do that :) 11:15:27 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.193.194] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:15:37 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 11:15:51 lichtblau: Seriously though. It's all a very interesting idea. Perhaps in healthy-hacker 2.0 I'll take a look at the closure thing. At the moment I'm too busy learning the basics of CLIM, and getting this fucker to work :) 11:16:09 Now I need food, coffee and cigarettes. 11:17:58 In that order? 11:18:02 jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:22 Well a combination. 11:18:54 lichtblau: I had no idea you were such an evil person. "oh if you do this stuff here you'll understand stuff better!". Plain evil. 11:19:12 spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-78-209.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:22:05 Should be a SMOP today! I'm guessing that with-output-as-gadget just wasn't there when closure was written. 11:25:19 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:04 What is a SMOP? 11:30:15 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-4-157.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:31:05 ah small matter of programming. 11:31:06 I can't find t_cons in object.h in the latest version of ECL (relese version l) 11:31:11 Yes. 11:31:29 (including understanding clim, understanding closure, learning html and css) ;) 11:31:48 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@202-161-12-164.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:33:09 bah. my deadlock detection was broken. no wonder 11:33:20 *nikodemus_* fixes and tries again 11:34:08 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:34:47 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progmc55.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:35:18 nikodemus_: fyi, we have some code that looks around in the backtraces and detects and prints deadlocks. the idea is to look for call-with-...-lock stuff. also waiting to be added to sb-introspect 11:36:28 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:36:57 attila_lendvai: this one explicitly checks for potential deadlocks before grabbing a lock 11:36:58 -!- gonzojive_ [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 11:37:41 conses and makes things slow, but catches deadlocks before they happen 11:38:02 is this based on a strict ordering/layering of locks? 11:38:59 simple: when about to grab a lock, check if the current owner of that lock is waiting on a lock you own 11:39:22 vaddi [n=vaddi@p54867C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:23 except now i broke the buil. bah. 11:39:26 our stuff is a postmortem help... we used it for development and sometimes we used it to abort some requests to keep the servers running 11:41:26 actually, i know how to make this not cons 11:41:34 hiia 11:42:52 nikodemus_: does that code detect the indirect situation, where you're waiting on a lock A, owned by a thread waiting for a lock B, owned by a thread waiting on a lock C you've got? 11:44:40 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:45:44 no, not yet 11:46:26 i had code that did that at some point, but it was linux only, and too slow to use on spinlocks 11:46:56 that is, it did the checking only when going to sleep on the lock 11:47:14 which we don't control on lutex platforms 11:47:15 nikodemus_: i've sent you our stuff, maybe you find something useful in there. 11:48:32 there's some matrix operations in there to detect the circles... it was made by Levy. 11:48:33 adding indirect detection to this is easy, though 11:49:05 but speed wasn't a concern for us, so i don't know how that performs... :) 11:51:47 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:53:31 thanks 11:54:01 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host67.190-227-44.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:12 speed was a concern for me mostly just so i could stress the system enough to indice the deadlocks in the first place 11:54:21 induce, even 11:55:29 attila_lendvai: thanks 11:55:44 jgracin [n=jgracin@78-0-80-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:56:33 nikodemus_: welcome 12:07:20 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:07:58 shawn-p [n=fake@65.172.162.106] has joined #lisp 12:13:23 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:12 -!- nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:18:41 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BB9B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:18:55 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9A7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:19:00 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 12:19:39 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:28:19 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 12:33:13 _deepfire [n=deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 12:33:16 slava: no, not yet. Riastradh built that binary. 12:33:31 slava: Your goading played a not-insignificant part in this :-) 12:41:39 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [] 12:45:38 is there ever a reason to use proclaim instead of declaim, other than when building declaration specs at runtime? 12:46:07 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:46:20 No. 12:46:28 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483FFC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:00 good 12:47:46 I had to turn off the boinkor.net:6969 bittorrent tracker today (which is where the slime and lispm screencast torrents pointed). somebody uploaded cloverfield to it, and the mpaa sent notice 12:47:51 matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has joined #lisp 12:47:58 *antifuchs* ticks the "paramount" box on his takedown notice bingo card 12:48:20 can't you turn that off in the tracker? 12:48:56 sure could... but I haven't had anything but problems with bttrack anyway. nowadays, it's probably easier and cheaper to just put it on s3 12:49:21 (cheaper in terms of time wasted (-:) 12:50:40 until somebody uploads cloverfield to S3 and the MPAA takes down Amazon :-) 12:51:08 I don't think it works like that (: 12:52:26 I'm curious: Are Germany's (or is it Austria?) laws about references to material sufficiently different from Sweden's -- at least judging by the persistent existence of the Pirate Bay -- that a takedown notice about a torrent is concerning? 12:53:13 it's not concerning at all (: 12:54:00 So...why did you turn the tracker off? 12:54:04 but if this tracker benefits movie pirates (arr!) more than it does the lisp community, Iturn it off (: 12:54:40 (I'm assuming that `uploaded cloverfield' means `uploaded a torrent for cloverfield, whose actual bis are hosted elsewhere', whatever `cloverfield' is.) 12:54:42 I was just amused that I got that notice... as otherwise, I wouldn't have noticed that this thing is running at all 12:54:49 OK. 12:54:53 yeah, exactly (: 12:55:02 (`Bits', even.) 12:55:09 I'm not sure any of these lispcasts had any seeders left, anyway (: 12:56:12 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 12:56:56 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:57:24 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 12:59:45 attila_lendvai: you mentioned you used a lot of dynamic-extent declarations. can you elaborate a bit on how/why? 13:01:41 locklace: all the libs we use together have a lot. but it's an important optimization not to stress the gc, especially that it's single threaded on sbcl 13:01:46 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:04:10 did you have a way of measuring the impact of using it vs. not? 13:04:40 <_deepfire> that certain opaqueness of "otherwise unavailability" requirement for DX declarations makes it harder to use 13:05:47 I frankly have no idea what that "otherwise unavailable" stuff means, especially when it comes to cases like nikodemus' test case on sbcl-devel 13:06:14 locklace: sb-sprof, it also has a mode to measure consing 13:06:28 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:07:50 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:08:19 attila_lendvai: cool 13:08:42 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 13:09:25 in what cases does sbcl stack-allocate instead of heap-allocate (not counting dynamic-extent declarations)? 13:14:58 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has joined #lisp 13:15:05 <_deepfire> locklace, do you mean, when does it assume dynamic extent? 13:16:49 <_deepfire> oh, collated stack allocation and dynamic extent, sorry 13:16:57 manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:54 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 13:19:47 well, assume and act accordingly :) 13:20:09 <_deepfire> there has been talk on the list, about inferring dynamic extent-ability, IIRC 13:20:35 Xlas [n=28@c-d270e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:21:16 <_deepfire> although it was more like a mention in passing 13:22:49 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has quit [] 13:23:14 wonder if any other implementations do that aggressively 13:23:51 Lolwut_brb [n=Lol@ppp121-44-74-145.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:51 -!- Lolwut_brb [n=Lol@ppp121-44-74-145.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:24:29 schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:25:05 <_deepfire> this is not something you can do opportunistically, so "aggressively" actually means "awfully clever" 13:25:29 <_deepfire> i.e. sufficiently smart compilation 13:25:37 indeed 13:26:28 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:26:51 chandler: oh, I just noticed that I forgot to send that reply to the list 13:27:17 I wonder if we should just push out the manual with every release or continue (trying to) do that automatically from cvs 13:27:23 seeing as it often doesn't build (: 13:27:27 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.223.98] has joined #lisp 13:27:34 or the upload fails because sf.net change their login procedure again 13:28:30 I think it makes sense for the manual to correspond to the last release. Not that the manual really changes all that often, but if a new feature is added and documented, it makes sense for it not to show up on the site until it's released. 13:29:10 good. I'll turn off the automatic uploader, then... don't want to clobber the release manuals if it should suddenly start working (: 13:29:14 nickga [n=nickg@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:29:51 -!- xan_ [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:29:59 OK. :-) 13:31:08 -!- splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:32:42 -!- Soulman__ [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:32:42 Soulmann [n=kae@gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:07 ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 13:34:38 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:26 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:52 nice. one fewer step in the reboot procedure (entering that ssh agent key was pretty annoying (-:) 13:37:17 if I wanted to set up a build-bot to build and test SBCL once per commit, how would I go about doing that with git? 13:37:30 (I assume I'd use git for this) 13:40:57 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:41:11 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 13:41:14 you could take a look at what autobench does: http://github.com/antifuchs/autobench/tree/master - that may be a bit too complex for you (: 13:41:22 gitbuilder is supposed to do exactly that 13:41:34 -!- brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:41:42 it's a pretty new project, though, so might require some fiddling to make it work perfectly 13:41:57 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 13:41:58 so the basic procedure is: git fetch; for commit in `git rev-list --pretty=oneline --reverse "^HEAD" origin` ; do git reset --hard $commit ; ;done 13:42:06 erm, not --pretty=oneline 13:42:14 see http://github.com/apenwarr/gitbuilder/tree/master/README 13:42:21 -!- brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:42:21 oh, sweet 13:42:46 erm, no... "builds the most recent versions of all the tags and all the branches" 13:43:00 splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has joined #lisp 13:43:09 that's more sensible if you don't want to handle /every/ revision, though (: 13:43:20 maybe I'm not understanding that - I just want to build the newest version of head when there is a new commit 13:43:46 I'll have a look at autobench since it already does that :-) 13:44:18 tiesje [n=user@202.51.72.181] has joined #lisp 13:44:25 athos_ [n=philipp@p54B86143.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:56 *slava* goads 13:44:59 there are two approaches: run regularly and build the most recent thing (which is what gitbuilder seems to be doing, except it bisects and spots the problematic commit on failure), or run regularly and unconditionally build every single commit (which is what autobench does) 13:45:49 the basic procedure that autobench follows is the shell script I wrote above (: 13:45:55 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:46:33 I used to just run daily and build the most recent thing, but that built a lot of duplicates and skipped some commits. So, the autobench thing is what I want now. 13:46:50 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 13:46:58 right (: 13:47:13 -!- brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 13:47:26 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:34 brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has joined #lisp 13:48:14 Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:52:43 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:53:05 -!- ausente [n=id@201-95-15-80.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [] 13:54:13 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B86585.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:54:17 -!- Xlas [n=28@c-d270e253.4542024--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 13:54:46 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 13:55:09 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 13:57:21 tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2C86E.dip.t-dialin.net] 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you planning to commit the CCL cross-compile fixes? 15:34:27 drdo` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:35:37 -!- ecraven [n=nex@mk090152227129.a1.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:36:40 jsimonss_ [n=jesse@urda-140.teknologforeningen.fi] has joined #lisp 15:37:33 Xof: oh look, I'm getting more typecase problems on Darwin x86-64 15:40:17 -!- jsimonss [n=jesse@urda-140.teknologforeningen.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:40:29 -!- jdz [n=jdz@85.254.248.11] has quit ["Somebody rebooted me"] 15:42:59 willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 15:44:09 drdo`` [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:51:22 -!- drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:52:37 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:53 bombshelter13 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spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-78-209.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:17:42 spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-85-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 16:17:48 acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:07 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:18:54 Is there a way to control output in lisp? I am looking for something like ob_get_contents in php. http://jp2.php.net/manual/en/function.ob-get-contents.php 16:19:16 clhs make-string-output-stream 16:19:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_s_2.htm 16:19:23 clhs output-stream-string 16:19:23 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for output-stream-string. 16:19:25 grr! 16:19:35 clhs get-output-stream-string 16:19:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get_ou.htm 16:20:03 tomoyuki28jp: Those functions are what you're looking for. 16:20:10 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-149.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:20:21 chandler: Thanks a lot! What a great lang.. 16:21:17 can specbot do cltl2 references? 16:22:30 lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbd929.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 16:24:50 locklace: No. Feel free to donate an index file! 16:25:09 (preferably as an alist of term -> URL) 16:25:19 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:25:31 xreyes_ [n=xreyes@8.84-48-175.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:50 ok, i may try to do that, it would be nice to have as often the sections there are more readable for learners 16:27:05 -!- xreyes [n=xreyes@8.84-48-175.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:27:13 -!- milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.40] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:27:54 -!- varjag [n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:28:37 -!- neurogeek [n=neurogee@gentoo/developer/neurogeek] has quit ["Abandonando"] 16:29:06 nikodemus`: you could also use sigaction around the socket operations to make those signals internal to SBCL restart automatically using SA_RESTART. 16:29:14 That way, users could interrupt the system call using their own signals intentionally, while not being subject to unexpected interrupts. 16:29:57 (Or can those signals use SA_RESTART unconditionally?) 16:30:20 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 16:34:50 not sure 16:35:12 can you post that to the list? (i need to be going just about now) 16:36:12 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 16:36:25 in other news: i *think* i have mostly-thread-safe class-graph updates -- which fixes among other things attila's invalid-layout infinite loop 16:36:26 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 16:36:40 dinner -> 16:36:42 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:37:07 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:41:28 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:47:19 chandler: can specbot handle search terms with spaces in them? 16:49:38 Yes. 16:51:27 cool 16:53:27 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:27 16:53:27 -!- names: ccl-logbot sohail adeht xreyes_ malumalu lhz postamar acrid spacebat tomoyuki28jp replor lemonodor edon rickardg gigamonkey drdo bombshelter13 willb jsimonss_ shawn-p antoszka Odin- xjrn silenius b4|hraban jpcooper Soulman__ borism Patzy dthomp daniel ox manuel_ kpreid__ ignas Jasko3 Wizard_ tst___ Athas brickhazel dlowe xan tritchey sellout ThomasI schme cemerick bobbysmith007 matley Yuuhi _deepfire envi^home H4ns vaddi yvdriess Nshag jao 16:53:27 -!- names: hkBst knobo mogunus trebor_w_ slava kami- hsaliak_ Bzek bdowning aerique Tristam fe[nl]ix attila_lendvai rsynnott _jpl_ vcgomes kleppari mishok13 Partyzant seelenquell__ bpt segv_ mcxx keram defn arbscht_ BrianRice VityokOrgUa timchen119 l_a_m bougyman Modius_ araujo felipe stassats` mgr_ happycodemonkey |Soulman| haiwei bangtree billstclair pierre__thierry getha Drakej gloaming spiderbyte ivanst holycow mathrick dfox_ meingbg abeaumont 16:53:27 -!- names: hugod bob_f nullwork_ nullwork phubar jkantz delYsid p8m ZabaQ mikezor sabetts alexsuraci yahooooo3 michaelw mqt sbok ``Erik_ twopoint718 ebzzry jeremiah pchrist|univ kuwabara hosiawak wlr olejorgenb kmkaplan cky lemoinem envi^office sledge pinterface REPLeffect tic boyscared ryepup1 NoorDextor wgl rdd` dwave pchrist xinming_ dmiles_afk Adrinael dublpaws S11001001 Spune johs konr` UnwashedMeme1 rread lichtblau rlpowell V-ille herbieB cmm 16:53:27 -!- names: pok sykopomp srcerer dcrawford manic12 matimago ineiros_ locklace Eno_ intrados fihi09 beach mtd dto pragma_ faheem_ technik specbot minion mdxi andrewy hefner zenbalrog jsnell Buganini bohanlon djinni` maxote Aisling kuhzoo Cel ``Erik lnostdal sad0ur zbigniew abend_ housel prip ahaas Chrononaut enn persi jajcloz cods PissedNumlock eevar scode Bucciarati mornfall jrockway esden djkthx eirik puddingpimp yango larstobi ivarref e271 lucca Cryovat 16:53:27 -!- names: tarbo isomer joga jollygood_______ guenther__ Guest53748 aking merlincorey tessier Xof spiaggia thedonvaughn Khisanth Zhivago nyef ianmcorvidae r0bby turbo24prg bascule Ifur phadthai drewc azuk slyrus sjbach tltstc DrForr luis authentic xristos agemo erg Riastradh Thas Draggor retupmoca _CitizenKane_ keithr froydnj gz antifuchs pkhuong rey_ qebab Ash emma Balooga chandler jolby bfein foom clog mvilleneuve bunz esden`away chii Fade dostoyevsky 16:53:27 -!- names: jamesjb rumbleca andrerav maskd esden_ _3b fnordus albino 16:57:36 josemanuel [n=josemanu@71.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:59:50 -!- aerique [i=euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit ["..."] 16:59:53 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:02:09 disumu [n=disumu@p57A24922.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:16 -!- rickardg [n=user@egaws2273.stu.lu.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:04:21 milanj [n=milan@79.101.204.40] has joined #lisp 17:04:44 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 17:07:59 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:59 17:07:59 -!- names: ccl-logbot milanj disumu josemanuel adeht xreyes_ malumalu lhz postamar acrid spacebat tomoyuki28jp replor lemonodor edon gigamonkey drdo bombshelter13 willb jsimonss_ shawn-p antoszka Odin- xjrn silenius b4|hraban jpcooper Soulman__ borism Patzy dthomp daniel ox manuel_ kpreid__ ignas Jasko3 Wizard_ tst___ Athas brickhazel dlowe xan tritchey sellout ThomasI schme cemerick bobbysmith007 matley Yuuhi _deepfire H4ns vaddi yvdriess Nshag jao 17:07:59 -!- names: hkBst knobo mogunus trebor_w_ slava kami- hsaliak_ Bzek bdowning Tristam fe[nl]ix attila_lendvai rsynnott _jpl_ vcgomes kleppari mishok13 Partyzant seelenquell__ bpt segv_ mcxx keram defn arbscht_ BrianRice VityokOrgUa timchen119 l_a_m bougyman Modius_ araujo felipe stassats` mgr_ happycodemonkey |Soulman| haiwei bangtree billstclair pierre__thierry getha Drakej gloaming spiderbyte ivanst holycow mathrick dfox_ meingbg abeaumont hugod bob_f 17:07:59 -!- names: nullwork_ nullwork phubar jkantz delYsid p8m ZabaQ mikezor sabetts alexsuraci yahooooo3 michaelw mqt sbok ``Erik_ twopoint718 ebzzry jeremiah pchrist|univ kuwabara hosiawak wlr olejorgenb kmkaplan cky lemoinem envi^office sledge pinterface REPLeffect tic boyscared ryepup1 NoorDextor wgl rdd` dwave pchrist xinming_ dmiles_afk Adrinael dublpaws S11001001 Spune johs konr` UnwashedMeme1 rread lichtblau rlpowell V-ille herbieB cmm pok sykopomp 17:07:59 -!- names: srcerer dcrawford manic12 matimago ineiros_ locklace Eno_ intrados fihi09 beach mtd dto pragma_ faheem_ technik specbot minion mdxi andrewy hefner zenbalrog jsnell Buganini bohanlon djinni` maxote Aisling kuhzoo Cel ``Erik lnostdal sad0ur zbigniew abend_ housel prip ahaas Chrononaut enn persi jajcloz cods PissedNumlock eevar scode bfein foom clog mvilleneuve bunz esden`away albino fnordus _3b esden_ maskd andrerav rumbleca jamesjb dostoyevsky 17:07:59 -!- names: Fade chii jolby chandler Balooga emma Ash qebab rey_ pkhuong antifuchs gz froydnj keithr _CitizenKane_ retupmoca Draggor Thas Riastradh erg agemo xristos authentic luis DrForr tltstc sjbach slyrus azuk drewc phadthai Ifur bascule turbo24prg r0bby ianmcorvidae nyef Zhivago Khisanth thedonvaughn spiaggia Xof tessier merlincorey aking Guest53748 guenther__ jollygood_______ joga isomer tarbo Cryovat lucca e271 ivarref larstobi yango puddingpimp 17:07:59 -!- names: eirik djkthx esden jrockway mornfall Bucciarati 17:09:48 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:25 dkcl [n=dkcl@214.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:13:00 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 17:13:21 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:13 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 17:18:18 -!- trebor_w_ [n=none_ask@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:18:54 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:19:51 vasa [n=vasa@mm-179-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 17:20:12 darkniobe [n=niobe@m250e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:20 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:22:53 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@76.254.23.192] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:23:23 wow, that didn't take long 17:23:30 clojure now has its own book 17:23:43 (or book 'in beta', anyway) 17:24:47 chandler: I can do so, yes 17:24:55 Good evening. 17:24:59 at some point when I actually have more than five minutes to string together 17:25:01 tritchey [n=tritchey@c-98-226-113-211.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:18 I'd quite like some evidence that the problems have been raised as bugs in openmcl too 17:25:26 sorry, "clozure common lisp" 17:25:32 Afternoon all. 17:25:40 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:25:50 Hello nyef 17:26:18 Anything interesting happening? 17:26:37 Xof: see #ccl 17:26:56 Xof: actually, I ran into another problem, and am testing a new patch now 17:27:55 I tried arguing with gbyers about whether an implementation was allowed to signal a WARNING when compiling compliant code with well-specified behavior, and while I think it's definitely not, gbyers evidently disagrees. 17:28:29 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbd929.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:37 lichtblau: do I have to? 17:29:08 minion: logs? 17:29:08 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24) 17:29:33 -!- seelenquell__ [n=seelenqu@pD9E46FF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:29:40 the ircbrowse.com thing is back again, too 17:29:44 nyef: I am hosting one of our regular (but not so frequent) "Lisp dinners" in a week or so, and I think I will suggest creating a repository of tarballs at the LaBRI web site, so as to get the younger staff and PhD students a bit involved in this. I don't know whether it is going to be an improvement on the current situation for anyone else, but I am willing to try it. 17:29:54 Xof: I wasn't sure what you meant about CCL's array upgrading lattice being noncompliant, either. Is this about the (signed-byte 15) etc. types? 17:30:24 unsigned-byte 15, yes 17:30:26 TBH I'm somewhat scared by our evident assumption that the host Lisp has specialized represntations for unsigned-byte 8/16/32/64 arrays 17:30:37 I think that only 8 is required 17:30:50 (someone should check that) 17:30:51 nyef: I have also suggested to the person who organizes the LaBRI weekly seminars that I give a series of seminars on Lisp. 17:30:59 Is it? I thought only BASE-CHAR, CHARACTER, and BIT were required. 17:31:39 nyef: There are several reasons for that: first that the seminars are not exactly "weekly" in that most weeks have nothing programmed. 17:31:58 BrianRice-mb [n=briantri@c-98-225-51-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:06 clhs u-a-e-t 17:32:06 UPGRADED-ARRAY-ELEMENT-TYPE: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upgr_1.htm 17:32:17 nyef: second, that I think the teachers/researchers of a world-class CS lab like ours should know about modern Lisp. 17:32:33 -!- adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has quit ["changing servers"] 17:32:46 adeht [n=death@nessers.org] has joined #lisp 17:32:55 nyef: sorry to give it all to you, but you asked :) 17:32:55 chandler: I meant "8-bit is required for the cross-compilation we currently do", not "8-bit is required by the standard" 17:33:03 I think that the other code paths don't get called at cross-compilation 17:33:51 Ah, I understand now. 17:34:12 beach: ah, I'm sure they know all about modern java ;) 17:34:15 (cheap shot?) 17:34:20 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progmc55.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 17:34:36 Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 17:34:43 Since I had to change your patch anyway, I think I'll make that assumption more explicit here. 17:35:20 rsynnott: The students I am talking about are already involved in Lisp in one way or the other, but not necessarily on the "supplier" side. 17:35:33 do! Then we'll see if I'm right :-) 17:36:18 rsynnott: Oh, but you are referring to the seminars. Sure, but my main audience would be the theoreticians that are involved in nothing at all. 17:38:25 But, must run now - I'll take another crack at this later. 17:38:28 rsynnott: About half of our staff have no clue about programming whatsoever, and they think they know Lisp because they learned it 30 years ago, or they learned it from someone who taught it the way it was taught 30 years ago. 17:38:48 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:16 ah 17:39:24 I can see that would be a problem 17:39:29 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:39:31 do they still spell it in all caps? :) 17:40:03 beach, Lisp dinners: nice! 17:40:07 cYmen [n=cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 17:40:12 rsynnott: I am sure they would if I asked them, yes. 17:40:49 tic: yeah, well, this is France, so it's an excuse to get together with nice people and have some great food and great wine. 17:41:01 beach, sounds like a great excuse. 17:41:02 I would like to display some data given as xml as a tree. Is that a feasible task in lisp? Which GUI library would you seasoned lispers use? 17:41:23 ah, you people with your affordable good food and (especially) wine :P 17:41:39 cYmen: It is extremely feasible. I would use a representation like CXML-STP for the tree, and McCLIM to build the presentation. 17:42:21 tic: well, that's our culture! (I love it) 17:42:41 chandler: You think that's possible with McCLIM? (Just want to make sure *g*) 17:43:13 cYmen: I think you can trust chandler. 17:44:00 tic: You are invited in case you feel like the trip is worth it. 17:45:05 beach, thanks! How does one travel to Bordeaux? Train from a distant airpoirt? 17:45:37 has someone moved Bordeaux airport!? 17:45:57 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:46:05 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:46:23 mulligan [n=user@e178035183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:25 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:30 *tic* checks the distance between Bordeaux and Val d'Isere 17:47:42 tic: er, Bordeaux has an international airport. 17:47:48 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:49:16 -!- Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has quit ["leaving"] 17:50:34 beach: How's the weather down there? 17:51:38 cYmen: certainly better than in Sweden, but in the autumn it is quite variable. Right now, we have a max of 14°C or so, and rain every other day. 17:52:07 Fine so france is not an option for a holiday this time of the year :) 17:52:50 cYmen: if you are looking for sun and warm weather, you might consider Nice. 17:53:13 sounds expensive :) 17:53:51 hmm, brain not working today 17:54:03 (boundp *bla*) tests if *bla* is bound, right? 17:54:05 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbd929.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:06 nevermind, being silly :) 17:55:12 nostoi [n=nostoi@143.Red-83-61-175.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:07 cYmen: Right. Better wait until May, and come to Bordeaux. 17:56:26 cYmen: I think several #lisp regulars can confirm :) 17:56:57 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit ["Bye Bye!"] 17:57:16 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 17:57:20 beach: I've been to somewhere close to Libourne for easter several times and I always enjoyed it a lot. :) 17:57:37 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 17:58:04 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp435.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 17:58:15 cYmen: Excellent! Pop in here next time! 18:00:17 Yeah if I know any lisp then :P 18:00:31 FZ [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/fz] has joined #lisp 18:01:11 cYmen: We'll be around. There is about a dozen of us here in Bordeaux. 18:03:25 -!- Athas [n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:04:21 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:04:23 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:35 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:08:19 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:08:22 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:48 Good to know. :) 18:09:14 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has joined #lisp 18:11:49 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:12:30 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has joined #lisp 18:14:24 blitz_ [n=blitz@77.64.176.244] has joined #lisp 18:17:19 mejja [n=user@c-4db6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:18:20 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@124-171-106-113.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 18:18:44 -!- jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:20 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-85-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:19:20 -!- Krystof [i=csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:24:48 -!- bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:25:22 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:19 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@208.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:07 -!- persi [n=user@ec2-72-44-44-74.z-2.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:59 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@208.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 18:32:01 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.192.91] has joined #lisp 18:34:05 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-f1771bccb2495eba] has joined #lisp 18:37:25 asdf25 [n=asdf25@pool-71-246-193-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:47 rme [n=rme@pool-70-106-128-43.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 18:38:58 i'm trying to open a file for writing in sbcl and getting a "Too many open files" error. /proc/sys/fs/file-nr has "5888 0 1586626". anyone know how i can allow more files to be opened? 18:39:21 close your old ones? 18:39:45 -!- lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp435.studby.uio.no] has quit ["leaving"] 18:39:48 asdf25: maybe you really have opened too much files? Maybe this is a sign of file descriptors leak in a program 18:40:18 If you're using with-timeout around anything involving file descriptors, that's a possible leak. 18:40:56 hmm, no with-timeout, i'm using a number of threads running server sockets and accepting connections, maybe it's not closing those 18:41:01 note that file-nr is the global file limit. the process-specific one is in file-max 18:41:15 nyef: shouldn't with-timeout properly unwind the stack? 18:41:15 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-177-125.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:41:41 hmm file-max says 1586626, don't think i could have used that many 18:41:42 dmitry_vk: It's an asynchronous unwind, so it can't always do so. 18:42:03 no, wait, no it isn't. but it's somewhere 18:42:37 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:42:42 Aside from the per-process ulimit? 18:42:47 nyef: For example? 18:42:57 ah, yes, ulimit would make sense 18:43:09 bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:30 tcr: For WITH-OPEN-FILE, what happens if the timeout occurs during the return from OPEN, before the file handle is actually stored anywhere? 18:43:40 Err... before the -stream- is stored anywhere. 18:43:44 seen http://weblisp.net ? 18:43:59 (a lisp-1, it seems) 18:44:06 twopoint7181 [n=cwilson@emperor38.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:44:08 ulimit seems to be a bash command, is there a way i can change it from within sbcl? 18:44:09 Then consider if it happens during the underlying open(2) call, before the file descriptor is stored in the stream. 18:44:12 nyef: I see. Thanks. 18:44:26 H4ns [n=hans@p57A0D1D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:58 tic: a _scheme_ by the looks of it 18:45:21 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-149.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 18:45:22 So, I'm looking at the definition for the BX and BLX instructions, and they have a 24-bit displacement. It's sign extended and shifted left two bits before use, giving a maximum displacement of about 32 megs each way. 18:45:45 And I was wondering if that was sufficient to be able to hit static space or the runtime from the end of dynamic space. 18:46:01 Until I remembered that dynamic space tended to be larger than that. 18:47:18 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-149.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:48:00 The upshot is that I'm fairly sure I don't need to handle the case of passing a fixup to a branch instruction: There's just not enough range for it to be reliable. 18:48:31 enigmus [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:24 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 18:52:29 -!- manuel_ [n=manuel@vpnwwwext.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [] 18:54:36 -!- twopoint7181 [n=cwilson@emperor38.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 18:55:46 -!- _jpl_ [n=John@76-191-142-187.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:56:08 who pinged me? 18:56:25 -!- ryepup1 [n=ryepup@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 18:57:05 I did. 18:58:25 ushdf [n=ushdf@syru217-183.syr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:58:28 S11001001: (progn (make-dispatch-macro-character #\^) (set-dispatch-macro-character #\^ #\# 'identity) (set-macro-character #\^ #'remove) (get-dispatch-macro-character #\^ #\#)) 18:58:33 S11001001: What does this do in ccl? 18:59:45 let's see how well I remember the implementtaion 18:59:55 I guess: it will signal an error that #\^ is not a dmc 19:00:07 in actuality: answers the symbol `identity' 19:00:29 Indeed, that's how SBCL behaves, too, and I think it's wrong. 19:00:47 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@v-209-98-139-195.mn.visi.com] has quit [] 19:00:47 it doesn't match how I remember the rt structure either 19:01:11 I wouldn't have expected it to be the case in ccl, too. 19:01:33 S11001001: I'd appreciate it if you could file a bug report about that. 19:01:37 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has joined #lisp 19:01:49 hmm, I'll check set-macro-character first 19:01:49 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:02:38 IIRC dmcs have a mc-function associated with them, and if the semantics are defined right, you could access this and wrap it to add "every subchar" behavior 19:02:50 -!- stassats` [n=stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:03:01 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-14-117.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:03:03 They must. Get-Macro-Character is well defined on them. 19:03:42 Clisp's implementation is funny, they return a new closure so (eq (get-macro-character #\^) (get-macro-character #\^)) => NIL 19:03:49 I'm not sure why they do so. 19:05:51 they might ignore the char passed to them and store the subchars in the captured environment 19:06:17 yeah they do indeed frob the closure, I couldn't decipher what exactly is done, though. 19:06:17 Wombat1 [n=willy@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:27 clisp source is hard to read 19:06:47 It's okish. 19:06:49 once I changed like two lines, took a while to figure out what to change 19:07:38 Everytime I had a specific question how something is implemented in Clisp, reading the source answered my question on first glance. 19:08:05 I wouldn't dare to modify the source, though. :) 19:08:50 *tcr* afk (bbl) 19:09:11 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-149.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:09:53 tltstc` [n=nine@192.207.69.1] has joined #lisp 19:10:17 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-218-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:03 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 19:15:01 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 19:15:01 I don't think set-macro-character is defined to remove the associated subchars or remove dispatchyness; the only clearly defined thing is that set-dispatch-macro-character will signal an error if the primary char has not been made dispatchy 19:17:48 benatkin [i=62ac52c2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-34858314741bb669] has joined #lisp 19:17:57 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:05 -!- benatkin [i=62ac52c2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-34858314741bb669] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 19:20:46 -!- asdf25 [n=asdf25@pool-71-246-193-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:23:59 -!- dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:26:12 drewc, so isn't scheme a lisp-1? 19:26:29 NoorDextor_ [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has joined #lisp 19:26:59 tic: yeah, as is clojure, and arc.. but that's a scheme. 19:27:30 drewc, you're right, of course. 19:27:39 :) 19:27:42 -!- xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:28:07 xan [n=xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 manuel_ [n=manuel@HSI-KBW-091-089-250-148.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:19 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-20-85.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:34:26 drewc: darcsweb error: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-graph;a=commitdiff;h=20081001021330-3cc5d-77254a52871937d966d9923a320a60381f066292.gz 19:36:54 -!- NoorDextor [n=NoorDext@unaffiliated/noordextor] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:36:57 Do I have to compile all the functions, which are called by a macro, when I compile the file with eval-when things? 19:37:06 -!- NoorDextor_ is now known as noordextor 19:37:19 -!- noordextor is now known as NoorDextor 19:37:28 Okay, port-log updated, time for me to do something else for a while. 19:37:46 tomoyuki28jp: yes. 19:37:54 If they're in the same file. 19:38:09 And if by 'called' you mean 'called in computing the macro's expansion.' 19:38:21 gigamonkey: inline declare should be okay too? 19:39:10 You mean as a replacement for putting them in an EVAL-WHEN? I doubt it. 19:39:18 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 gigamonkey: yes 19:39:46 (maybe I should just try. I will do that now.) 19:40:34 tomoyuki28jp: I can't think of any reason to expect that it would. And if it does happen to work now but isn't specified to, you're going to be very confused later on when it stops working (in a different Lisp or different version of the same Lisp.) 19:41:11 ack. darcs revert isn't what I wanted... 19:41:47 gigamonkey: I understand. Thanks a lot for the info and your help! 19:42:12 oh my god, I love lisp so much... 19:42:17 robot_jesus [n=csanders@hoovers-241.hoovers.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 -!- mdxi [n=mdxi@li11-97.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:45:34 *dkcl* (huggle (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :cl)) 19:46:44 mdxi [n=mdxi@li11-97.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:26 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:48:14 _mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:48:32 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:48:42 Good evening. 19:50:21 Hi beach 19:51:24 beach: How long did it take Kathleen to translate LiSP? 19:54:00 hmm, how should 'failing to allocate X bytes' be handled in sbcl? 19:54:25 ahaas: hello! Quite some time I think. A few months would be my guess. But she was working full-time in parallel and she was meeting regularly with Christian. Why? 19:54:27 slyrus_: can you send in a ticket with details on how to re-create? 19:54:41 In the medium term, I want to find what is attempting to allocate outrageous amounts of memory, of course, but for the moment I would just like to catch and abort when it does that 19:54:53 m4thrick_ [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:55:02 sorry, heap exhausted during allocation 19:55:06 drewc: how do I do that? 19:55:20 beach: Just curious. I'm only halfway through chapter 2, but I don't think I've ever read a translated technical book before and I keep thinking about the process. 19:56:18 slyrus_: admin@common-lisp.net. is this a 'new' error (did this work, say, yesterday?) 19:56:20 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@92.112.3.9] has joined #lisp 19:56:28 drewc: never tried before 19:56:29 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:57:01 ahaas: It was a complicated process, especially since Kathleen wanted to preserve the French "spirit" of the original while still making it accessible to a wide Anglophone audience. 19:57:09 slyrus_: dang.. it appears to be a global error, so i figure our darcsweb is borken somehow 19:57:31 H4ns: you were talking about event-driven serving mode for hunchentoot a while back, right? 19:57:35 drewc, tried cgit? 19:57:35 did that ever happen? 19:57:39 rsynnott: right. 19:58:16 *rsynnott* is currently grappling with 10 reqs per second to a rather slow webapp 19:58:17 beach: It sounds very challenging, but so far, in my opinion, it reads very well. 19:58:21 threads all over the place! 19:58:21 where can I get this new book? 19:58:25 I want to add to my collection 19:58:37 rsynnott: yeah, that can easily kill you 19:58:39 searching for LiSP obviously is a bit vague :P 19:58:50 minion: LiSP? 19:58:51 LiSP: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 19:58:53 tic: cgit looks nice 19:59:01 thanks ahaas 19:59:09 minion: botsnack! 19:59:09 thanks! 19:59:18 rsynnott: i use squid and a single threaded hunchentoot in my production systems, that works well and is not as vulnerable to thread overload 19:59:28 at the moment I have an inelegant fix involving limiting the number which can actually be processed at once as soon as they're accepted 19:59:53 ahaas: My wife is the only "distinguised writer" at her company. I think there is a good reason for that. :) 19:59:54 how would i go about writing a function that would take an expression and evaluate it piece by piece? 19:59:58 like 20:00:00 (+ 1 (* 2 4)) 20:00:01 *rsynnott* is currently adding cacheing to the webapp, but the thread thing is worrying in general 20:00:02 would go to 20:00:06 (+ 1 8) 20:00:08 then 20:00:08 9 20:00:10 ? 20:00:15 rsynnott: it is. is your site database driven? 20:00:16 H4ns: hmm, yep, that approach, with a number of single-threaded hunchentoots, might work for me 20:00:18 kidd [n=kidd@167.Red-79-147-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:20 H4ns: yep 20:00:28 ahaas: But thanks! I'll be sure to transmit that to her. 20:00:34 (elephant/postmodern) 20:00:40 http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/12/about-transferable-stock-options.html 20:00:41 jao` [n=user@72.Red-79-155-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:43 oops 20:01:16 beach: Can you describe the "french spirit" of the book? I'd like to be cognizant of it as I continue. 20:01:18 rsynnott: then the single-threaded approach is not as good because of the database i/o wait in every request. 20:01:31 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:01:35 rsynnott: (might not be bothersome, but considerable) 20:01:41 yep 20:01:51 -!- jao` is now known as jao 20:01:58 thread pooling could work, but I really don't have time to be tearing hunchentoot apart right now 20:02:10 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 20:02:21 (also, there are occasional rpc calls out to rather slow systems) 20:02:22 ahaas: it's in the spirit of annoying S11001001 so he won't read the thing 20:02:33 ahaas: my memory of it is a bit old, but one thing I remember is to retain the French name of music notes like Do, Re, Mi, rather than using C, D, E, more common in the anglophone world. 20:02:33 beach: I spent two months in Montpellier, but I mostly absorbed the pastry. 20:02:57 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-218-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:02:58 ahaas: that's a good start. 20:03:34 rsynnott: all that is very bothersome, and that is the reason why i like my approach to persistence so much :) 20:03:36 just went live the other day; somewhat more traffic than I expected :P 20:03:40 H4ns: what's that? 20:03:51 ... not reboot? 20:03:56 s-l-a-d? 20:04:11 rsynnott: bknr - in-memory transactions. 20:04:15 (on the plus side, I'm putting in caching at a HTML fragment level, which should more or less remove needing to talk to the database for most requests) 20:04:19 ah, yep 20:04:25 data set is too big in this case 20:04:26 rsynnott: so i never have to wait for my database. 20:04:32 rsynnott: that's bad. 20:04:48 indeed 20:04:49 rsynnott: how large is too large in your application? 20:05:06 more than a couple of gigs; we only have modest hardware 20:05:40 elephant's coping rather well, though 20:05:59 rsynnott: is that because of BLOBs, or because of the sheer number of things you're putting up? 20:06:13 lots of data per user 20:06:20 ah 20:06:31 it's a rather complicated web game :P 20:06:36 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-149.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:06:58 rsynnott: I'm using bknr for my own. ~4mil game objects only use up about 1gig :) 20:07:52 sykopomp: what game is that, is it public? 20:08:10 H4ns: it will be, if I ever finish it. It's mostly just an engine right now 20:08:17 the code's public though 20:08:17 sykopomp: ah, ok. 20:08:27 H4ns: http://sykosomatic.org/git 20:08:42 and by the way, I've been having a lot of trouble reproducing that bug. It's really strange. 20:09:03 I mean, it happens reliably in my own code, but I can't quite figure out how to replicate it in just pure bknr 20:09:27 sykopomp: what was the synopsis of that bug? 20:09:33 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:10:41 H4ns: setfing a dynamic variable with a store object, then using that dynamic variable to assign the object to a slot in an object, then setfing a second slot in that object based on the first slot. 20:10:54 sykopomp: ah, that thing. 20:11:20 -!- gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:11:37 sykopomp: that really is a bothersome thing - did you try with another compiler? 20:11:57 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@EM119-72-20-85.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:12:10 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.192.91] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:12:11 nah, I can only compile on sbcl right now -- there's a couple of things I need to rewrite portably. 20:12:18 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 20:12:51 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:19 JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:43 sadly, I think a request to buy a machine with 32GB of ram would be met with shock :) 20:14:50 matley [n=matley@83.225.117.117] has joined #lisp 20:15:10 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 20:15:43 hehehe :D 20:15:48 i tried to run a 640 GB job on a 128 GB machine yesterday. luckily it sorted itself out so i didn't have to ask someone what city the datacenter was in. 20:15:50 or any decent machine; all of the hardware is slightly antique... 20:16:42 lemonodor: was that a lisp job or something else? 20:16:52 python 20:16:58 (though machines with lots of memory can be problematic; we had a 32gb one in last-job; no-one knew that the top few GB of ram were dodgy until the data set grew enough to hit them 20:17:12 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:17:18 then it crashed spectacularly, annoying tens of thousands of people across the globe 20:17:23 -!- nostoi [n=nostoi@143.Red-83-61-175.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["Verlassend"] 20:17:29 rsynnott: flaky machines of any size are problematic 20:17:40 rsynnott: i even hate flaky watches :) 20:17:47 rsynnott: are you usually working with games-related stuff? 20:17:54 lemonodor: python CAN allocate that amount of memory sensibly?! 20:18:00 sykopomp: since leaving uni, yep 20:18:06 (also before that to an extent) 20:18:10 rsynnott: how's that worked out for you? 20:18:18 accident of fate, really; I'm not a gamer myself 20:18:22 ah, pretty well 20:18:36 rsynnott: haven't had any trouble yet. 20:18:47 though it's all server-side, so is annoying when things break on weekends/middle-of-night/christmas day 20:19:49 (my introduction to the industry was coming second in a UK/Ireland teams programming competition with someone who worked for Demonware (now a bit of Activision) :P) 20:20:13 kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:01 cbrannon [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:51 -!- kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:25:51 chandler: ping 20:26:17 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:49 sellout-ip [n=mobile@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:28 -!- sellout-ip [n=mobile@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:01 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:27 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@unaffiliated/dkcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:28:38 dkcl [n=dkcl@214.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:28:48 -!- dkcl [n=dkcl@214.67.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:16 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-241-149.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:30:55 -!- JuanDaugherty [n=juan@cpe-72-228-150-44.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:34:04 fe[nl]ix: pong 20:34:14 ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3de30ff654919d4f] has joined #lisp 20:35:00 gigamonkey [n=user@adsl-76-254-23-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:42 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:53 chandler: http://pastebin.ca/1247238 http://pastebin.ca/1247243 20:36:50 what's this funny pastebin.ca thing? :-) 20:37:15 i didn't want to fill up lisppaste with index files ;) 20:37:26 don't worry about filling it up! 20:37:56 anyway, if you don't mind re-pasting it, can you make the keys strings intead of symbols? 20:38:56 ok, they are already strings in the second one 20:39:29 chandler: how come the directory inside sbcl-1.0.22-x86-64-linux-binary.tar.bz2 is named only sbcl-1.0.22 ? 20:39:56 fe[nl]ix: ah! blame kreuter for that one. 20:39:57 all other tarballs follow the pattern sbcl-$VERSION-$ARCH-$OS 20:40:08 he uploaded that with the release 20:41:56 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.194.29] has joined #lisp 20:43:38 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:44:15 chandler: ok, http://pastebin.ca/1247252 http://pastebin.ca/1247243 20:44:46 thanks! 20:45:25 fe[nl]ix: if I get a chance, I'll re-upload that with the correct name in the tarball, but it's not the most pressing issue on my to-do list now :-) 20:45:33 but yep, anyone know a way of globally catching heap exhausted errors in sbcl? 20:57:09 rsynnott: I can think of a way, but it's complicated and unlikely to be useful. What you need is a separate program, and the ptrace debugging API... 20:58:16 even being able to detect that one had occurred would be quite useful 20:58:18 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:13 Well, when the heap is exhausted, the first to know about it is the GC, typically find_freeish_pages() or whatever it's called. Just add some code there to do whatever notification. 21:00:42 You'll be post-mortem, unfortunately, but you might be able to still do something. 21:01:08 for the next few days, even just being able to restart the server app when it happens would be handy 21:01:22 binarycodes_ [n=sujoy@59.93.247.203] has joined #lisp 21:01:29 oh. just build SBCL without ldb 21:01:36 I've got three server machines, so it wouldn't be a disaster; the load balancer would just send requests elsewhere 21:01:39 ah 21:02:00 (the problem, I strongly suspect, is actually in a dodgy bbcode parser, of all things) 21:02:10 yuck, bb. 21:02:18 oh, indeed 21:02:20 but users like it 21:02:24 you can disable dropping to ldb from lisp-side, no need to rebuild 21:02:27 I don't undertsand that. 21:02:43 jsnell: Oh, that's nice. 21:02:55 chandler: ok, thanks 21:02:57 jsnell: how do you do that? 21:03:03 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.194.29] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:03:28 M-. disable-debugger 21:03:36 (I don't remember the specifics) 21:03:39 -!- blitz_ [n=blitz@77.64.176.244] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:03:52 or if you're ok with also disabling dropping to the lisp debugger, just call disable-debugger directly 21:04:14 ah, that may work 21:04:18 thanks 21:04:48 another annoying case is where it says 'heap exhausted during allocation' but doesn't actually die 21:05:48 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@124-171-106-113.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Operation timed out] 21:05:49 damnit, something's definitely keeping memory around that it shouldn't be 21:05:50 blitz_ [n=blitz@77.64.176.244] has joined #lisp 21:06:12 lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has joined #lisp 21:06:48 spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-82-159.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:07:13 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:07:51 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:15 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbd929.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:11:20 binarycodes__ [n=sujoy@59.93.255.6] has joined #lisp 21:11:29 darkniobe1 [n=niobe@m310e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:12 -!- darkniobe [n=niobe@m250e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:14:24 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@92.112.3.9] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:14:30 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Yay! I'm a Llama again!"] 21:15:45 -!- tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2C86E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 21:19:55 drakej1 [n=drakej@208.79.15.100] has joined #lisp 21:24:26 -!- binarycodes_ [n=sujoy@59.93.247.203] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:24:30 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-82-159.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:24:45 spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-109-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:27:23 vy [n=user@78.167.192.74] has joined #lisp 21:28:30 Hun [n=Hun@pd956be5d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 njsg [n=njsg@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 21:32:03 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:33:06 Does common lisp have a function to generate a random hex string like this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/69866 (Or if there is a better way to do this, any advice will be appreciated.) 21:34:13 I would say that you should generate a random vector of numbers and then convert it to a hex string. 21:34:39 <_3b> (format nil "~x" (random expt 16 digit))? 21:34:51 chandler: Because it's gonna be faster? 21:35:04 <_3b> oops, add some parens there 21:35:12 tomoyuki28jp: search for random-string here: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=cl-dwim-wui;a=headblob;f=/src/utils.lisp 21:35:24 tomoyuki28jp: because it's more obvious what the code is doing. 21:35:46 chandler: I see. Thanks for your advice. 21:36:12 it's an optimized version, though. somewhat obfuscated... 21:36:33 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-218-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:37 -!- Jasko3 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:36:48 AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has joined #lisp 21:36:49 Unless you have some reason to believe that this needs to be optimized, write something that is obvious. 21:38:19 Aisling [i=ash@blk-137-73-33.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 21:38:20 attila_lendvai: thanks for the info. 21:38:31 the one i've pasted is used in a web server to generate ids for remote stuff. runs quite a lot... 21:39:09 tomoyuki28jp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/69866#1 21:39:11 _3b: this works fine. Maybe this is the most simple one? (format nil "~x" (random (expt 16 digit))) 21:39:35 attila_lendvai: obfuscated indeed. DEF?! 21:40:01 chandler: def. 21:40:02 <_3b> tomoyuki28jp: yeah, that's what i meant, probably need to 0 pad it though 21:40:52 _3b: What do you mean by "0 pad"? 21:41:20 attila_lendvai: where does the (def (function io) ...) syntax come from? 21:41:30 fe[nl]ix: I checked the code you have posted. thanks. 21:41:31 <_3b> (format nil "~v,'0x" digit (random (expt 16 digit))) 21:41:34 attila_lendvai: bah, never mind. just saw it 21:41:41 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@202-161-17-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:41:44 -!- mulligan [n=user@e178035183.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:11 <_3b> "0 pad" = put 0s at the start to make sure you always get enough characters 21:42:36 dlowe: those are flags for inline and optimize, but they are disabled based on the compile time configuration of the project to help debugging... 21:42:57 ecraven [n=nex@mk084020166092.a1.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:24 s/are/can be/ 21:43:31 _3b: Thanks! 21:43:46 attila_lendvai: I am sure that Brucio would appreciate this macro. You should send him an email! 21:44:07 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:44:25 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46:14 Hi people, should I be able to use case with strings? 21:46:51 (case mystring ("something" (what-ever)) ("something-else" (what-ever2)))? 21:46:58 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:47:14 You can use it, but it probably doesn't do what you want it to do. 21:47:16 clhs case 21:47:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm 21:47:16 V-ille: sure, if they're the same pointer. 21:47:27 V-ille: alexandria:switch 21:47:57 Yes, so it doesn't do string=, which means that I need cond. That's what I gathered from hyperspec and trying it. 21:48:43 or you can write a string-case macro 21:50:01 Yes, that too. 21:50:22 Krystof [n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:50:26 -!- binarycodes__ [n=sujoy@59.93.255.6] has quit [Success] 21:50:33 binarycodes__ [n=sujoy@59.93.245.251] has joined #lisp 21:50:33 Thanks, people.. 21:52:44 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:54:15 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-109-41.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:55:32 -!- vaddi [n=vaddi@p54867C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:56:19 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:41 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:04:47 -!- vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away] 22:09:18 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:04 -!- 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[n=red@DNab42393a.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:25:17 ivanst_ [i=ivans@93-136-58-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:26:34 -!- darkniobe1 [n=niobe@m310e36d0.tmodns.net] has left #lisp 22:27:34 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:56 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #lisp 22:29:15 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:04 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:30:15 EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:49 pkhuong: case wants literals, and as string literals aren't guaranteed to be the same during compile and load times, I don't think you can use case for strings even if they were the same pointer initially (: 22:34:20 -!- kpreid__ is now known as kpreid 22:35:08 -!- EtFb [n=etfb@mail.hatrix.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:44 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:36:56 -!- ivanst 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