00:00:34 hmm, interesting 00:01:08 on a heavily loaded multicore machine, processor run times often exceed wall clock times in sbcl 00:01:48 envi^office [n=envi@203.109.25.100] has joined #lisp 00:03:39 bpt__ [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:55 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-212-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:06:06 <``Erik> is that not expected? O.o 00:06:39 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:07:23 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:07:52 -!- topo [n=topo@200.37.161.41] has left #lisp 00:08:11 -!- cky [n=cky@203-211-93-118.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:09:03 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:09:03 Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:32 sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:31 -!- acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:19:07 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:19:13 -!- wasabi_ [n=wasabi@ntoska176142.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 00:19:37 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.194.125] has joined #lisp 00:23:06 Odin- [n=sbkhh@157.157.74.59] has joined #lisp 00:24:10 -!- Dawgmatix [n=deep@207-237-30-94.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 00:27:49 -!- milanj- [n=milan@79.101.149.199] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:30:14 -!- jfrancis_ [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has quit [] 00:30:35 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 00:36:29 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@202.176.4.21] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:38:25 dlisboa [n=diogo@bd214ad3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:38:27 -!- allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:38:33 allnmymind [n=user@bas3-ottawa10-1279403734.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:38:55 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 00:39:23 -!- nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl9-101-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:41:14 schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:42:23 enigmus [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:53 In a generic function, how do I call another version of this generic, for instance the method defined for the superclass? 00:46:07 jfm3 [n=user@c-98-221-176-228.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:24 clhs call-next-method 00:47:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_call_n.htm 00:48:11 chandler: thanks 00:48:19 see also http://gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 00:49:54 chandler: thanks 00:50:08 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 00:55:37 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-58-246.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:56:58 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.88.87] has joined #lisp 00:57:13 froog__ [n=david@87.192.28.247] has joined #lisp 00:57:33 -!- schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:04:23 what is cl for power? ** ^ pow power exp ? 01:04:30 clhs expt 01:04:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_exp_e.htm 01:04:59 thanks ;) 01:06:40 -!- allnmymind 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quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:28:20 So what do I do if I can't ASDF-INSTALL something from cliki.net (CL-OPENGL)? 01:28:43 O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-63-189.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:28:48 install it from darcs, so you can contribute patches 01:29:32 binarycodes_ [n=sujoy@59.93.194.255] has joined #lisp 01:30:05 -!- binarycodes_ [n=sujoy@59.93.194.255] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:08 run in circles, scream and shout! 01:30:13 cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43] has joined #lisp 01:30:30 binarycodes_ [n=sujoy@59.93.194.255] has joined #lisp 01:30:39 Okay so assume I install it from darcs and get it to play and I have a tarball. 01:30:48 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.194.125] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:31:13 Who do I pester to get it up there as asdf-install able? 01:31:16 -!- binarycodes_ is now known as binarycodes 01:31:36 luis is a likely candidate 01:32:27 jfm3: *technically*, you're free to package your own binary and update the wiki page... 01:36:39 -!- kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:36:41 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-58-246.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:37:10 kpreid [n=kpreid@cpe-67-242-12-135.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:12 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 01:39:38 is there a not equal numeric operator, or do I just use (not (= ... )) ? 01:39:45 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:40:02 /= 01:40:39 ah 01:40:57 ths_ [n=ths@X6ae7.x.pppool.de] has joined #lisp 01:41:50 lemoinem [n=swoog@modemcable125.83-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:42:05 clhs /= 01:42:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq_sle.htm 01:42:20 ... how did I not know about that? 01:44:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:47:12 -!- O_4_ [n=souchan@ip-118-90-63-189.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed 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nurv101 [n=askmefor@bl9-101-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:12:40 and such is perhaps the brain damage introduced by languages which do not require that you declare variables before assigning them. 04:13:43 could you tell how to print strings ?? 04:13:57 princ prints a char rite 04:14:09 or a string, or a number. 04:14:51 wlr [n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:59 (princ " result " r ) 04:15:03 i that rite?? 04:15:23 is that correct ? 04:20:45 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:21:05 -!- Praveen_ [n=chatzill@c-69-253-237-19.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:28:00 stassats` [n=stassats@ppp78-37-12-65.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 04:29:56 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:14 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:30:55 -!- nurv101 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Is it possible to have defgeneric-defmethod combo chose the function based on the value of the parameters rather than just the type of the parameter? 05:35:57 eql. 05:36:21 I don't quiet get it .. 05:36:48 I am talking of polymorphism like behaviour .. 05:36:52 In , look for EQL specializer. 05:37:08 will look 05:38:08 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:18 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:31 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:47:22 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-226-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:47:28 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 05:57:53 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has quit [] 06:00:49 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 06:02:51 seelenquell_ [n=seelenqu@pD9E47923.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:29 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:05:11 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:09:18 happy obama lispers 06:10:55 -!- gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has quit [] 06:12:14 -!- bashyal [n=bashyal@208.42.136.59] has quit [] 06:14:04 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 06:14:39 hehe 06:14:49 so did obamer win? 06:15:04 holymoo: #politics, yourfavoritenewschannel.com 06:15:04 seems like it 06:15:10 :) 06:15:16 lol k, got it 06:15:21 merlincorey: k googlin 06:18:20 -!- seelenquell [n=seelenqu@pD9E47FA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:20:08 mczepiel [n=mczepiel@c-24-7-120-106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:31 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:22:46 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:22:59 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:25:59 -!- amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:26:45 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@157.157.74.59] has quit [] 06:26:54 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-213-34.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:06 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 06:29:38 When I am running slime .. How to make it forget all the loaded functions and get a clean slate? 06:29:53 agnel [n=user@61.12.19.50] has joined #lisp 06:30:20 hi 06:30:34 restart inferior lisp will definitely do the trick 06:30:37 M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp 06:30:46 ,restart-inferior-lisp 06:31:05 isn't there a lisp command to clear all the variables? 06:32:10 which I can add to the beginning of the file being compiled... 06:32:13 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@adsl-68-126-213-34.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:32:13 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:32:34 notsonerdysunny: why do you need it? 06:33:14 if you don't like the symbols that get interned you will have to unintern them one by one 06:33:39 -!- spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:33:52 what happens is when I have "defconstants" it keeps warning me that I am modifying a constant and I have to chose a restart and go ahead and modify it when I recompile a file .. ? 06:34:14 ah 06:35:09 notsonerdysunny: maybe use defparameter? 06:35:13 you just get a warning or does your lisp start the debugger (you have to enter something to go on)? 06:35:33 It starts a debugger .. that is the problem.. 06:35:52 merlincorey: defparameter is not same as defconstant .. 06:36:06 I want to use defconstant .. .. 06:36:20 would defparameter break anything else in your code? 06:36:29 it wouldn't 06:36:32 notsonerdysunny: I know it's not the same, but it seems defparameter would solve the issue and I think that is sort what it is for? 06:36:39 so that it can be reset reentrently 06:37:12 I guess defparameter is a good solution then.. 06:37:49 Good morning. 06:37:50 for developing yes; you can change it back to defconstant when you just have to load it once 06:38:20 beach: good morning 06:38:28 constants can be loaded more than once as long as they are EQL 06:38:41 beach: indeed 06:38:52 slyrus: congratulations! 06:39:04 :) 06:40:15 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [] 06:41:37 notsonerdysunny: you could use alexandria:define-constant if your constants aren't eql 06:41:39 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:45:44 I am a newbie .. I find it hard to distinguish between eq eql equal equalp .. is there a nice article/doc which would explain the difference... 06:46:40 did you try peter seibel's book? 06:48:18 clhs eq 06:48:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq.htm 06:48:28 http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter17.html google helped 06:48:34 notsonerdysunny: it has "Sea Also" at the end 06:48:44 with links to eql, equal, etc. 06:48:49 I have been using it like a reference .. I haven't read it cover to cover 06:48:59 hmm .. thanks I will look at it.. 06:48:59 -!- slyrus_ [n=slyrus@adsl-68-121-172-169.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:50:27 thanks uxell .. that is exactly what I was looking for... 06:51:51 kiuma [n=kiuma@ip-126-26.sn1.eutelia.it] has joined #lisp 06:52:21 hello lispers 06:52:39 gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-14-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:55 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 06:55:27 -!- holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:55:30 :) you're welcome 06:55:40 hello, kiuma 06:56:36 hi uxell :) 06:56:45 holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:12 -!- jlf [n=user@netblock-68-183-235-19.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:58:34 notsonerdysunny: I think the best way of delving into lisp as a newbie is to forget about every other language and view lisp as a new way of expressing your ideas. don't try to implement your old code. do something completely new 06:59:02 the problem is to forget about everything else. :) 06:59:12 hehe 07:00:18 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit ["Leaving."] 07:00:23 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 07:03:24 -!- notsonerdysunny [n=chatzill@121.243.167.99] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092510]"] 07:04:11 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 07:05:07 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-141.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:24 bye folks, have to go 07:05:34 -!- uxell [n=u@dslb-084-056-167-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:06:38 good morning 07:06:44 hello mvilleneuve 07:13:12 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@dm.sonopia.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:21 hi guys. 07:19:29 Hey tic. 07:22:12 beach, what's cooking? 07:25:22 spacebat_ [n=akhasha@124-171-103-4.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:28:49 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@40.pool85-49-172.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:29:52 -!- Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [] 07:30:34 tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has joined #lisp 07:30:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #lisp 07:33:09 bpt__ [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:29 tic: I think I'll do some more experiments with using an X image as frame buffer, and using CL-Vectors to render things. 07:34:19 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:34:35 beach, interesting! done anything at all yet or just planning so far? 07:35:13 tic: I measured the time to render 2500 small triangles. It takes 0.16s or so. 07:35:29 beach, is that good, bad or relevant? :) 07:36:10 tic: it probably means that fonts will have to be rendered in advance and blitted as opposed to rendered each time. 07:36:55 -!- enigmus [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:38:03 beach, I should know more on font rendering... Does McClim have its own font rendering engine? 07:39:33 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 07:40:04 -!- spacebat [n=akhasha@124-171-80-206.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:41:07 tic: not yet :) 07:41:35 beach, so what's the deal with "rendered in advanced and blitted"? do you mean string/glyph caching? thought that was rather common. 07:42:20 tic: It is common. But I wasn't sure it was necessary. 07:42:36 mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-63-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:44:42 -!- agnel [n=user@61.12.19.50] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:46:05 lyte_ [n=lyte@60-242-109-30.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:47:02 beach, gotcha. 07:47:03 -!- lyte [n=lyte@unaffiliated/neerolyte] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:47:20 *tic* has a colleague across the room who has worked a lot with fonts 07:51:38 -!- lyte_ [n=lyte@60-242-109-30.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:52:42 lyte_ [n=lyte@60-242-109-30.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:53:55 -!- holymoo [n=biteme@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:56:02 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@ip-126-26.sn1.eutelia.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 07:59:46 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has joined #lisp 08:06:00 -!- ausente [n=id@201-92-76-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [] 08:10:01 -!- AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:15:15 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 08:19:17 -!- JuanDaugherty is now known as Lycurgus 08:21:43 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 08:25:43 Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-19-182.kosnet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:25:58 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:29:10 mulligan [n=user@75-51.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:56 splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has joined #lisp 08:32:42 eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:51 -!- gonzojive [n=red@c-24-5-14-234.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:35:04 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 08:35:06 I noticed that when I started slime in Emacs, a new sbcl was started even if I was using stumpwm and sbcl was already running 08:35:33 Is it possible to not start a new sbcl process? 08:35:51 morning 08:35:55 you can use M-x slime-connect 08:36:20 but you need to get the stumpwm sbcl to be a swank-listener 08:36:25 but you have to start the swank server somewhere 08:36:33 c|mell: that's great 08:39:30 a port is required, but how can I know what port is used with the current sbcl process? 08:40:13 sbcl doesn't automatically start swank 08:40:20 you have to start it somehow 08:40:43 -!- kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:40:57 -!- mikesch [n=axel@xdsl-87-79-63-185.netcologne.de] has quit [] 08:41:14 the function is swank:create-server 08:41:20 I put it in the .stumpwm, it seems it's not working 08:41:29 kuwabara [n=Kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 08:42:05 ~/.stumprc 08:42:48 what do you mean, it seems it's not working? 08:43:57 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:10 the default port for connection is refused and I don't know which port is the correct one 08:46:29 are you sure it is started? 08:46:58 you can use netstat --listen --programs to see if it is listening on the port (on linux) 08:47:04 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-1-223.w193-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 08:48:00 I use C-t : to send lisp expressions to sbcl process and now it works 08:49:02 H4ns [n=hans@92.117.40.170] has joined #lisp 08:49:27 for the record, the two expressions are: (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'swank) (swank:create-server :dont-close t) 08:51:18 yangsx: Why not give it a specific port? 08:52:15 schme: what is the recommended practice 08:53:10 yangsx: To not use stumpwm ;) 08:55:44 -!- mulligan [n=user@75-51.wlan.rz.uni-potsdam.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:56:01 yangsx: fyi, by default it listens on the loopback interface only 08:56:17 just trying stumpwm, and found it less easier to break than my KDE4 by accident, but a little bit inconvient, e.g. no clip board across different applications 08:56:37 Ok. 08:56:56 I seem to remember stumpwm having a built in repl so you might not actually need the swanking 08:57:42 _Jordan_ [n=chatzill@69.169.139.178.provo.static.broadweave.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:26 schme: yes, just C-t : 09:00:36 schme: and I want to reuse sbcl process in Emacs 09:01:17 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:33 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:07:44 Dobido 09:09:50 yangsx: Though I think #stumpwm might be a better place to ask these questions. 09:12:12 I'm looking forward to resuming lisp development when common-lisp.net comes back up. 09:12:30 Meanwhile, I suppose, it's back to python.. 09:12:47 Why are you waiting for common-lisp.net? 09:13:17 scheme: because I can't install any libraries on my new gentoo box 'cos half of them are there.. 09:14:20 Oh I see. 09:14:28 -!- ths_ is now known as ths 09:15:09 -!- mczepiel [n=mczepiel@c-24-7-120-106.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:19:04 ZabaQ: There are better things to do than use python in situations like that. 09:19:11 ZabaQ: what is the problem with common-lisp.net? 09:19:17 ZabaQ: Going to sleep 'til it works again for example. 09:19:25 i wish people would tell us instead of complaining around. 09:20:10 H4ns: It seems to work just fine for me. 09:20:29 it works for me, too. this is why i wonder what's going wrong for ZabaQ 09:25:39 ZabaQ: What's wrong with it? 09:27:32 minion: memo for notsonerdysunny: about "eq, eql, equal, equalp", have a look at http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 09:27:32 Remembered. I'll tell notsonerdysunny when he/she/it next speaks. 09:28:35 *H4ns* assumes that the pebkac and goes on with whatever 09:29:56 -!- yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:34:27 schme_ [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:35:19 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.179.97] has joined #lisp 09:36:26 -!- c|mell [n=cmell@61.121.210.70] has quit ["Instain to the do way"] 09:38:30 it doesn't let me make http/ftp connections. Name resolution is fine. I suspect I or m ISP's address block have been banned from it for some reason I do not comprehent, but have not been given a clue as to why. 09:38:45 s/comprehent/comprehend/ 09:39:29 or maybe I'm just being paranoid. 09:40:11 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.5] has joined #lisp 09:43:23 mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:12 what address does common-lisp.net resolve to for you? 09:45:12 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.179.97] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:45:31 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.179.97] has joined #lisp 09:45:53 i think i responded to your email, asking for details, but you did not get back. 09:46:07 I didn't get a reply. 09:46:36 check your spam folder maybe? 09:47:14 Aha! 09:47:28 Thanks. 09:48:01 pchrist|1niv [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 09:48:08 but you could tell me what your resolver resolves common-lisp.net to 09:48:21 I'm not 100% sure, as I'm not at home right now, but it looks as if the name is being resolved wrongly on my home box. 09:48:31 it may be that you have a stale dns cache entry, a wrong /etc/hosts entry or something in the lines of that. 09:48:53 Yes, I might have edited /etc/hosts two years ago and forgotten about it. 09:48:58 we are not blocking address ranges and common-lisp.net works mostly fine. 09:49:04 ah. 09:49:06 good. 09:50:18 thank you. 09:50:33 -!- b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:50:50 -!- schme [n=marcus@c83-254-190-108.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:50:57 sure. once you are back at your home box, try to find my two replies and let me know if you can solve the problem or need further assistance. 09:51:06 bye for now 09:51:10 -!- H4ns [n=hans@92.117.40.170] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:51:39 -!- pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:52:37 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:12 -!- rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 09:56:10 -!- pchrist|1niv [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:51 pchrist|univ [n=spirit@gateway.hpc.cs.teiath.gr] has joined #lisp 09:57:07 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:57:08 -!- [1]edon is now known as edon 09:57:58 nickga [n=nickga@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:58:54 -!- mikesch [n=axel@static-87-79-66-80.netcologne.de] has quit [] 10:00:45 what's the difference between writing (every #'evenp ...) and (every 'evenp ...)? 10:00:53 both forms seem equivalent, but i've read 10:01:01 #' is required when passing functions as values? 10:02:36 EVERY takes a `function designator', not only a function, which is why both versions work. 10:03:54 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:04:02 ok, so is this also true of FUNCALL, so i can write (funcall 'foo ...)? 10:04:15 hello lispers 10:04:28 (yes, it seems it is) 10:04:28 which reminds me that last time i've tried to use a #'foo inside a defun, and when i've redefined foo, the other defun also changed behavior, which was very surprising to me 10:04:29 nickga: yes 10:04:32 thanks 10:04:38 on sbcl 10:04:59 -!- jao [n=user@72.Red-79-155-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:17:05 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.88.87] has quit [] 10:23:54 LCO [n=LCO@89-212-135-13.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:18 -!- echo-area [n=user@nat/yahoo/x-70c914c22bb09a27] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:26:44 disumu [n=disumu@p57A259C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:07 -!- nickga [n=nickga@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:32:46 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.179.97] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:33:11 binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.241.29] has joined #lisp 10:33:32 nickga [n=nickg@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:37:01 jao [n=user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:24 -!- O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit ["Come alive!"] 10:38:34 -!- binarycodes [n=sujoy@59.93.241.29] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:42:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 10:45:13 appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:45:22 -!- kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["Bye bye ppl"] 10:53:58 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:54:17 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@adsl-76-214-15-172.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 10:54:25 -!- ths [n=ths@X6ae7.x.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:03:42 ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:07:38 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 11:07:43 H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9816.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:13:01 NuMaStresa [n=orion@unaffiliated/numastresa] has joined #lisp 11:23:02 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 11:26:32 -!- haiwei [n=haiwei@192.9.202.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:26:38 envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:28:54 -!- dlisboa [n=diogo@bd214ad3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:30:39 silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:31 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:31 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:40:18 -!- NuMaStresa [n=orion@unaffiliated/numastresa] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:40:31 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A259C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:44:40 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:47:51 dv_ [n=dv@85-127-102-97.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:50:18 -!- froog_ is now known as froog 11:50:37 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:26 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 12:06:26 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:09:15 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:13:14 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:16 H4ns1 [n=Hans@p57BB9A7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:18:40 -!- arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:19:12 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp435.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:19:34 -!- H4ns [n=Hans@p57BB9816.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:19:36 -!- H4ns1 is now known as H4ns 12:22:31 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:27:47 -!- hosiawak` is now known as hosiawak 12:30:49 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.0.227.34] has joined #lisp 12:32:34 -!- LCO [n=LCO@89-212-135-13.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:36:51 -!- tiesje [n=user@202.63.242.211] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:36:53 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Yay! I'm a Llama again!"] 12:40:57 impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:22 nickga: the difference will be apparent when you have local functions, and notably when they're enclosed in closures. 12:44:10 (defun f () :toplevel) (flet ((f () :inside)) (list (funcall (function f)) (funcall (quote f)))) --> (:INSIDE :TOPLEVEL) 12:45:36 http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/4e79f7fa9405fd35 <-- okay, now that has me confused 12:45:59 shouldn't the lambda funcalled in the second instance return the *value* of its binding? 12:46:11 and thus 'guess-what and not 'special? 12:47:27 hmm, or is it the effect of X being proclaimed globally special? 12:49:24 right, renaming it *x* automatically brought my mind back on track, sorry for the interruption 12:53:10 jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has joined #lisp 12:56:39 arbscht [n=arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:57:58 bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:00:22 tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2C8DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:15 vy [n=user@213.139.194.86] has joined #lisp 13:03:05 -!- lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp435.studby.uio.no] has quit ["leaving"] 13:09:24 Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:09:40 -!- vcgomes[away] is now known as vcgomes 13:11:50 athos [n=philipp@p54B87BE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:00 -!- splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:39 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@bzq-79-176-18-217.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:17:01 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 13:17:55 -!- StasNev [n=wizard@94.50.168.203] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:18:16 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:52 mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #lisp 13:21:37 nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:21:46 -!- tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2C8DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 13:23:45 LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:06 Wizard_ [n=wizard@90.150.214.190] has joined #lisp 13:24:08 good afternoon 13:24:11 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-213-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:25:48 hello nikodemus 13:26:38 1.0.12.2 seems to be much more stable than head. (although i've done some small micro-optimizations and backported Xof's ctor patch) 13:26:39 ivan4th [n=ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 13:26:58 otherwise you have the same local patches? 13:27:23 *attila_lendvai* double checks 13:27:42 i'm thinking esp. about the moribund thread GC patch 13:28:48 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-213-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 13:30:14 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-139-213-168.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:30:59 hm, maybe i wasn't clear enough: yesterday i've tried with sbcl head, it was quite fragile. today i've moved back to the old 1.0.12.2 sbcl we were using, but i've backported the CTOR patch and done some micro optimizations to our codebase, so the load is lower, so there are less parallel requests, so the memory load is also lower... and it seems to be more stable (there are nodes even that are alive since the morning... :) 13:31:22 the load is similar, maybe be a little lower 13:31:25 right 13:32:02 do you have any local thread or GC patches? 13:32:14 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 13:32:20 our local patches are innocent. the worst of them may be one that returns simple-base-strings here and there where it makes sense 13:32:56 nothing, 1.0.12.2, with some innocent local patches + CTOR backported 13:34:38 ok. i think the next step would be to try with 1.0.20 or earlier -- 1.0.20.7 had a signigicant GC change which reduced to amount of pinned pages 13:35:25 if it's not that, it's either a strange interaction between different things, or something i am just not seeing in the commit logs 13:36:24 (eg. a random bug in some commit) 13:36:47 -!- appletizer [i=user@82-46-30-39.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:37:45 there is on patch that might help, though, if it is a timing issue which just wasn't getting triggered earlier: the moribund thread GC workaround from Juho 13:38:16 i'm just trying to replicate it on current HEAD 13:38:40 -!- oudeis 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#lisp 13:40:10 rsynnott_ [i=rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 ``Erik_ [i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 sbok [n=kobs@you.cant.haxit.org] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 myrkraverk [n=johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 michaelw [i=michaelw@lambda.foldr.org] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 yahooooo3 [n=yahooooo@c-24-19-6-19.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 sabetts [n=sabetts@S0106000a95700fd8.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 mikezor [n=mikael@c-a388e253.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 ZabaQ [n=ZabaQ@194-105-174-193.ifb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 p8m [n=dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 delYsid [n=user@debian/developer/mlang] has joined #lisp 13:40:10 jkantz [n=jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:06 -!- Wizard_ [n=wizard@90.150.214.190] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:41:23 Wizard_ [n=wizard@94.50.1.239] has joined #lisp 13:43:06 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:50 well, i can't. but i *can* trigger your invalid layout looping bug immediately 13:46:32 *attila_lendvai* heads to the logs 13:47:43 hum, does anybody know of any package/code to introspect memory usage in sbcl in some way? 13:48:21 (room) ? 13:48:24 -!- impulse32 [n=impulse@CPE001195396746-CM001ac3167610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit ["leaving"] 13:48:31 xan_: http://www.lichteblau.com/tmp/dot/graph.lisp 13:48:38 splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has joined #lisp 13:48:56 rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:01 athos_ [n=philipp@p54B86585.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:34 Xach, great! thanks 13:51:08 inetic [n=inetic@chello082119124030.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 13:52:32 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-123-69.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:54:04 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-123-69.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:56 birdsbite [n=user@75.110.164.248] has joined #lisp 13:55:30 Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:57:06 kenny [n=kentilto@ool-18bb7ae5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:26 samix [n=chatzill@203.199.114.33] has joined #lisp 13:59:07 salaam 14:01:16 yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progmc55.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:03:55 does anyone know of a traits implementation for CLOS? 14:06:00 Jacob_H_ [n=jacob@92.0.227.34] has joined #lisp 14:06:18 -!- Jacob_H_ [n=jacob@92.0.227.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:06:41 soverton [n=user@75.145.221.229] has joined #lisp 14:07:38 -!- athos [n=philipp@p54B87BE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:08:11 nikodemus: this may ring some bells: when i tried to run path-to-root yesterday night on the otherwise still working 1.0.12.2 servers, they either quickly stopped with a bus error or got in a 100% cpu very similar to the ones i've seen on HEAD (although i unfortunately didn't have enough brain to attach a gdb) 14:08:51 inetic pasted "lisp noob has problems with macros" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69741 14:08:55 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:09:05 so it may be some form of memory corruption, which was already there in 1.0.12.2, but brings HEAD to its knees due to random or the gc changes 14:10:11 inetic: eval evaluates the expression in null lexical environment 14:11:26 dmitry_vk: thanks for looking at it, is there a way to tell the macro what is the value of BAR? 14:12:29 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-123-69.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:12:40 inetic: macros operate on the source code structure, not the future runtime value the structure might represent. 14:12:48 -!- Jasko [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:12:56 ...where path-to-root's first step was calling map-allocated-objects 14:12:58 inetic: you can expand into runtime code that does something with BAR, but it's not there at macroexpansion time 14:13:39 yvdriess: what are you trying to accomplish exactly? 14:14:43 locklace: I have some matrix-like class which has several subclasses, each corresponding to a certain optimization, dense, sparse, constant, unitary etc. 14:14:48 dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:59 inetic: maybe you should try to construct the list of functions in a macro without using eval 14:15:08 at creation I get a list of optimizations to use 14:15:15 so I pick and choose from those classes 14:15:31 I was thinking of using method combination etc with multiple inheritance to do this 14:15:46 but that means creating classes at runtime from the chosen optimizations 14:15:56 should i install clisp on a linux box to start off with lisp ? 14:16:07 or creating a macro that will make every possible permutation of those optimization subclasses 14:16:08 samix: I'd recommend starting with SBCL and SLIME. 14:16:12 minion: tell samix about SBCL 14:16:12 samix: please look at SBCL: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/SBCL 14:16:15 minion: tell samix about SLIME 14:16:16 samix: direct your attention towards SLIME: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/SLIME 14:16:17 traits will fix that instantly 14:16:27 samix: also, here's a free book that you can read 14:16:34 minion: tell samix about that-dead-sexy-book 14:16:34 samix: please look at that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 14:16:47 doesn't even have to be stateful traits :) 14:17:33 chandler: minion: thanks people! 14:17:59 cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has joined #lisp 14:18:02 samix: you're welcome, but minion's a bot :-) 14:18:11 dmitry_vk, Xach: I kind of have an idea about where the problem is, just haven't got a clue how to workaround it :-\. thanks for the tip with eval, gonna try to stare at it for couple more minutes and hope to be enlightened :-) 14:18:30 chandler: LOL i was kinda wondering! it was so fast at replying! 14:18:58 minion: are you a bot? 14:18:58 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 14:18:59 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbc12b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:01 inetic: there are lots of options, depending on what the problem is. 14:20:14 Xach: basically I would like to create a macro that takes argument in the same way as LET does 14:20:44 inetic: could you paste an example? 14:20:49 minion: are you written in lisp 14:20:49 i'm written in common lisp 14:20:53 :D 14:20:59 attila_lendvai: plausible -- like i said, HEAD has a less conservative GC, so corruption which might have accidentally been hidden by needlessly pinned pages is more likely to show up now 14:21:22 ...source of corruption is the trickier question 14:22:10 apropos, do you use m-a-o with third argument T? without that it is liable to construct bogus objects 14:22:18 yvdriess: i suspect the right way to do this if you don't want to use the mixin+macro approach is via the MOP 14:22:22 heanol [i=heanol@karantan.org] has joined #lisp 14:22:24 though with it it is quite a bit slower 14:22:53 locklace: yeah, which boils down to implementing traits in the MOP 14:22:55 I think 14:23:07 (apply (function (lambda (x) (toggle-mode-line x (current-head)))) *screen-list*) <- is there anything wrong wit that? 14:23:10 I think I'll go the macro way, path of least resistance 14:23:19 i want to call toggle-mode-line with each item in *screen-list* as the first parameter 14:23:29 although traits in the mop would be a good academic exercise :) 14:23:47 it gives me an "invalid number of arguments: 2" error 14:23:52 heanol: is this elisp? if so, try asking in #emacs 14:23:57 yvdriess: yeah, if it's a reasonably simple case it seems straightforward enough to use a helper macro to define your inheritance combinations--maybe something like this even exists already? 14:24:01 heanol: try reaading on apply and understanding what it does. 14:24:02 chandler, nope, common lisp 14:24:07 Xach, I think what I've pasted is kind of it (don't make me embarase myself by pasting the resto of the code :-) ), the arguments to the test-list macro are like the ones in the LET macro only without the name of a variable and without a body 14:24:18 clhs mapcar 14:24:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 14:24:26 heanol: that's the function you want ^^ 14:24:32 clhs apply 14:24:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 14:24:59 yvdriess: it might be interesting to poke around for a MOP-based solution too, wouldn't be surprised if there is one since it seems like a common sort of problem 14:25:14 yeah, google isn't turning anything up though, surprisingly 14:25:23 inetic: well, it's a little too vague for me to offer much, but as a general suggestion you can expand into code that does the work, instead of putting the code that does the work into the macro. 14:25:40 nikodemus: my version of m-a-o only has two args: fun space 14:25:42 our lab is also working on some traits research, so it would be interesting to go down that path 14:25:53 yvdriess: might be worth a question to comp.lang.lisp 14:26:00 true 14:26:49 heh: fun space &optional careful - maybe i'm missing "careful"... :) 14:27:53 inetic: look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69743; it might help 14:27:53 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-123-69.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:28:17 attila_lendvai: haha, also watch out for "&optional (do-the-right-thing nil)" 14:28:28 Xach, yeah, my explaining abilities are quite poor (mostly because of the lack of knowlege of lisp terminology), but I get the point you've explained. many thanks 14:28:42 -!- soverton [n=user@75.145.221.229] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:30:12 oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-123-69.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:30:20 dmitry_vk: what for (multiple-value-list (values? why not just (list ,@vs) ? 14:30:42 dmitry_vk: many many thanks! 14:30:57 stassats`: you're right, a simple list will do. 14:31:40 chandler, thanks 14:34:12 oh, right -- the third one went in 1.0.13.21 14:34:38 kib2 [n=chatzill@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:11 -!- edon [n=edon@82.114.94.5] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:40:46 Eleanore [n=a@c-b273e155.185-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:40:55 yvdriess: this thread might be of some interest: http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2008-05/msg00393.html 14:41:34 Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:45 hey cool, very similar situation :) 14:42:38 pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:42:49 -!- pmatos [n=pmatos@pocm06r.ecs.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:43:21 lnxz [n=joachim@bjo1-1x-dhcp435.studby.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:46:38 jpcooper [n=justin@unaffiliated/jpcooper] has joined #lisp 14:46:39 tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has joined #lisp 14:48:21 nikodemus: background info: i have a node now that is happily serving the users, but slime connect dies. another sign of a memory corruption for which 1.0.12.2 seems to be more tolerant... 14:48:46 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@89-138-123-69.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:49:59 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has quit [Client Quit] 14:50:31 tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2C8DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:10 yvdriess: and a pointer from a thread linked from that one: http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/lisp/amop-programmatic-class.lisp 14:52:03 daniel_ [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has joined #lisp 14:52:13 excellent! :) 14:53:03 caching and all 14:53:11 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:54:12 that reminds me to track down that AMOP copy 14:54:32 willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:56:49 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:58:15 -!- daniel [i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:58:18 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:00:03 -!- cbrannon [n=user@ip68-12-115-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 15:01:00 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:05:44 -!- brickhazel [n=brickhaz@63.144.132.78] has left #lisp 15:06:07 -!- nikodemus [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:07:20 -!- jtoy [n=jtoy@58.63.171.97] has quit [] 15:09:28 Odin- [n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:10:23 disumu [n=disumu@p57A259D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:13 morning 15:14:26 ltbarcly [n=jvanwink@nc-76-0-130-125.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 15:17:20 -!- heanol [i=heanol@karantan.org] has left #lisp 15:17:58 -!- x6j8x [n=x6j8x@tmo-100-141.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:20:57 -!- NoorDextor is now known as noordexter 15:21:33 -!- noordexter is now known as noordextor 15:25:38 phubar [n=patrick@216.132.194.62] has joined #lisp 15:25:52 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbc12b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 15:27:25 hello slyrus 15:29:00 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:33:35 *tic* heads home from work 15:34:50 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 15:34:51 baby-steps: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/fonts.png 15:36:37 metafontish? 15:37:05 -!- dthomp [n=dat@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:37:06 Xach: yes, I wrote a subset of MF as an embedded language. That's what I used for Gsharp music fonts. 15:37:45 Xach: but this time, I am using CL-Vectors to render it to an X image, and then I transfer the entire image to the X server. 15:38:01 beach: i am nearly as impressed with your ascii-art as with the graphic output :) 15:38:16 Thanks! Heh :) 15:38:45 sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:07 Xach: Especially since the letters are not very carefully designed at this point. 15:39:46 beach: i don't know much about metafont. does it do adjustments to account for the pixel grid? the small glyphs look very nice. 15:40:17 the first "j" after switching to two pixels wide looks a little odd, but other than that, it looks like a nice progression 15:40:46 Xach: Metafont is a general-purpose langauge so it can do what you want. I did put vertical and horizontal lines on exact pixel borders, yes. 15:41:19 Xach: right, those are tuning details that I haven't bothered with yet. 15:41:43 -!- noordextor is now known as NoorDextor 15:43:46 -!- kenny [n=kentilto@ool-18bb7ae5.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 15:47:34 robbish [n=robno247@zaza4.ida.liu.se] has joined #lisp 15:49:07 beach: so now, the font size can be a float :-) 15:49:25 matimago: sure, no problem :) 15:52:32 wow, Kenny T. on #lisp? 15:52:50 lichtblau: yeah, for the first time a few days ago. 15:53:08 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:53:54 time for southpark jokes then :) 15:54:47 kiuma [n=kiuma@83-103-59-156.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:55:18 hello #lisp 15:55:22 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has joined #lisp 15:55:25 hello kiuma 15:55:39 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:55:58 also, is it too early to ask who's planning on attending ILC 2009? 15:56:23 *H4ns* will attend, provided that he can combine the trip with a work visit to cambridge 15:56:35 lichtblau: I'll be there. 15:56:36 Planning is too strong a word, but /intending/... 15:56:40 *Xach* is going 15:56:47 lichtblau: I might go, since they elected a somewhat better president this time. 15:56:48 H4ns: I can't imagine that'll be a problem! 15:57:11 beach: Hooray. Now I'm even _happier_ he won. 15:57:34 -!- vy [n=user@213.139.194.86] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:57:49 funnily enough, the only thing with a popularity worse than bush -- was the (democratic) Congress 15:57:49 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:58:06 sellout: people refusing to travel to the US during Bush was one reason ILC was in the UK when it was. 15:58:40 dcrawford: True, but I think the proble with Congress runs much deeper. 15:58:45 milanj [n=milan@93.86.115.240] has joined #lisp 15:58:58 -!- robbish [n=robno247@zaza4.ida.liu.se] has quit ["leaving"] 15:59:04 Anyway, OT, ignore me. 15:59:14 -!- _Jordan_ [n=chatzill@69.169.139.178.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 15:59:55 dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has joined #lisp 15:59:57 Okay. Four days sounds a little long. I don't see myself sitting through four full days of lisp talks. But combined with a holiday it should work out. 16:00:34 *splittist* thought beach was talking about the ILC 'president'... 16:00:47 -!- eevar2 [n=jalla@106.80-203-27.nextgentel.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:01:19 splittist: not at all, no. 16:02:11 *splittist* is happy he gets to call all the anti-americans 'racist' for at least the next 4 years... 16:02:33 ThomasI [n=thomas@91.64.211.144] has joined #lisp 16:03:30 please, let's talk about worcestershire sauce instead. 16:03:40 +1 16:04:26 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:06:22 disumu_ [n=disumu@p57A259D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:56 -!- reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:07:03 *Xach* wonders about ILC2009 cost 16:07:19 reaver__ [n=reaver@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 16:08:45 gonzojive [n=red@fun.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:09:11 I think 05 was like ... around $600? 16:09:11 It will forever be known as the expense report I forgot to file. 16:09:50 *Xach* hopes wigflip will pay for it all 16:11:07 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:12:29 davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:56 replor_ [n=replor@ntkngw375028.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:14:16 semka [n=semka@homeuser198-8.ccl.perm.ru] has joined #lisp 16:14:35 sellout: *ouch* 16:18:26 -!- semka [n=semka@homeuser198-8.ccl.perm.ru] has left #lisp 16:20:04 existentialmonk [n=carcdr@64-252-145-185.adsl.snet.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:07 acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 cmm: Yeah, not to mention the flight, food, and lodging ;) 16:22:15 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 16:23:47 -!- athos_ [n=philipp@p54B86585.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:24:00 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:29:41 -!- H4ns 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17:22:17 disumu_ [n=disumu@p57A259D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:21 -!- dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:23:41 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-125-63.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:18 *tic* doesn't think Opera will pay for a trip to ILC.. 17:25:03 -!- dnm [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:27:17 bob_f [n=bob_f@mail.phgroup.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:53 -!- rindolf [n=shlomi@bzq-219-139-216.static.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Yay! I'm a Llama again!"] 17:31:20 tsuru [n=user@c-69-245-36-64.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:47 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:32:37 oudeis [n=oudeis@85-250-46-177.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:33:31 edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has joined #lisp 17:34:05 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-106-128-43.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:34:18 rme [n=rme@pool-70-106-128-43.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:01 slyrus_ [n=slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:56 -!- samix [n=chatzill@unaffiliated/samix] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:36:52 dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 -!- splittist [n=splittis@213.235.9.122] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]"] 17:38:16 -!- tst___ [n=Tim@p4FD2C8DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 17:38:21 *ZabaQ* doesn't think he will be there either. 17:38:42 x6j8x [n=x6j8x@77.21.43.186] has joined #lisp 17:38:56 -!- matley [n=matley@matley.imati.cnr.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:40:38 hunchentoot question in case anybody knows: I'm adding reCaptcha to a page, and to verify the data I need to do a POST request to the reCaptcha servers from my server. But if I use sync APIs (like drakma?) I'll block the whole server while verifying the data, which looks wrong. The 'obvious' fix would be to do this in a thread, but I can't find a way to mix hunchentoot handlers and threads when the handler reply depends on something computed on the thread. 17:40:38 Ideas? Maybe I'm just not approaching the problem properly 17:41:27 -!- nickga [n=nickg@pc022.cs.york.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:42:34 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@85-250-46-177.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:42:37 xan_: hunchentoot handlers run in their own thread. 17:42:45 xan_: each one its own thread, even. 17:43:08 xan_: a handler can do something that takes a long time without substantially harming the handling of other requests. 17:43:25 xan_: for example, i upload big files to flickr from a handler; no problem. 17:43:32 mmm, really? If I block in one the whole thing hangs, I wonder what I'm doing wrong there 17:43:32 hugod [n=hugo@bas1-montreal50-1279442362.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:43:46 *Xach* also wonders 17:43:57 xan_: what lisp implementation are you using? 17:44:09 ok, nevermind then, thanks 17:44:15 sbcl, and yeah, threads are enabled 17:44:29 weird. dunno what to say; it works ok for me. 17:45:22 lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:48:16 -!- ManateeLazyCat [n=Andy@222.212.132.251] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:52:05 -!- abeaumont [n=abeaumon@208.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:52:48 abeaumont [n=abeaumon@208.pool85-49-182.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 spacebat [n=akhasha@202-161-10-43.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 17:59:13 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A259D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["one too many of me"] 18:02:35 -!- disumu_ is now known as disumu 18:03:26 -!- meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:37 meingbg [n=user@remote2.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 enigmus [n=e@S0106001d7e52d1d9.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:48 Why does clisp put a lock on a non-standard package like EXT? 18:05:10 (I wanted to define my own with-gensyms) 18:05:20 enigmus: because no user code should modify symbols in that package. 18:05:25 enigmus: if you want to define your own, make your own package for it. 18:06:29 Xach: i don't understand why they pollute the namespace with their own stuff. Is there a reason for not using their own internal package themselves? 18:07:01 enigmus: they're not polluting anything. cl-user is not something involved in writing normal programs. 18:07:14 make your own package and work within it. 18:07:28 :use only the packages you need. 18:09:01 -!- holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:09:15 Xach: hmm ok. 18:09:17 enigmus: Better not come up with your own with-gensyms but use the from PCL, or cl-utilities. 18:09:52 where "use" may be interpreted as "steal" 18:10:11 -!- spacebat_ [n=akhasha@124-171-103-4.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:11:15 bertskert [n=mor_och_@c83-252-190-193.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:12:35 tcr: the one I wrote is really just the same than in PCL, with a mapcar. It's not a very hard one... 18:12:58 or just depend on alexandria... 18:12:59 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.112.5] has joined #lisp 18:15:07 -!- gilberth [n=gilbert@d060208.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:15:54 bertskert pasted "screen list" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69761 18:16:30 I tried to screen a list using this http://paste.lisp.org/display/69761, but I get "value -15 is of wrong type"... 18:16:39 can you find anything weird in my function? 18:17:04 bertskert: lisppaste automatically inserts the link. You don't have to repeat it. 18:17:17 ok =) 18:19:04 bertskert: it would also help to show your input, and what you expected for output, and what you got instead 18:19:22 Xach, heh, that text should be placed on the pastebin itself. like three separate fields. :) 18:20:07 What does "screen a list" mean? 18:20:55 *Xach* is guessing "filter" 18:21:00 return a list having only the elements that "measures up" to something, in my case the length of a timeperiod 18:21:07 xach, yeah 18:21:38 bertskert: remove-if-not is a builtin function that does that also. 18:21:45 amnesiac [n=amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:24:49 xach, can I use that on abstract datatypes? 18:25:15 bertskert annotated #69761 with "input" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69761#1 18:25:32 bertskert, what's an abstract datatype? 18:25:32 bertskert: No. It only operates on sequences. 18:26:06 tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has joined #lisp 18:26:20 -!- fdr- [n=fdr@76-191-209-5.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26:20 tic, a list with a specific structure that has functions handling the structure so that you can operate on a higher level 18:26:35 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:26:53 tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has joined #lisp 18:27:14 about my input: you can see that the timespace of the timperiod when it goes wrong is 45 minutes.. does that have something to do with -15? 18:27:35 The implementation of the primitive functions for the datatypes is almost certainly right 18:27:47 i like the "amost" part 18:27:58 =) 18:28:06 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.0.227.34] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:29:39 -!- yvdriess [n=yvdriess@progmc55.vub.ac.be] has quit [] 18:30:04 -!- sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:30:37 sohail [n=Sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:30:48 bertskert, I can't follow this code, as it depends almost exclusively on user defined functions and complex list data structures. 18:31:24 bertskert, CL style advice: when instead of (if foo something nil), and empty-timeperiods-p instead of empty-timeperiods? 18:31:36 (when foo something), that is. 18:32:13 you mean indenting? 18:32:16 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-3de94769db230121] has joined #lisp 18:34:08 I mean that you should write out (if foo bar nil) as (when foo bar), and instead of appending #\? at the end of boolean functions, you should use the more commonly used -p suffix. I think ahaas meant that we need to see more of your code, specifically the definition of the empty-timeperiods predicate, and the definitition of the datatype itself. 18:34:39 bertskert: Do you know about CHECK-TYPE and the SATISFIES type? 18:34:48 tcr, no 18:35:04 bertskert: (check-type tper (satisfies timeperiods?)) 18:35:13 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@net1.senecac.on.ca] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 18:35:47 tcr, yes. I have functions defined for that stuff 18:36:18 vmCodes [n=vmCodes@94-193-78-23.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:36:46 hm. I think I'll have to debug it then.. 18:37:52 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has quit [] 18:38:30 since the rest of my code is in swedish =) 18:39:47 bertskert, I can help you. 18:40:03 bertskert, or rather, I know Swedish, so I /might/ be able to help you. 18:40:14 bertskert, just paste the code. 18:42:50 cracki [n=cracki@47-124.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:43:15 -!- besiria [n=user@ppp083212086143.dsl.uom.gr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:43:27 mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@92.112.121.216] has joined #lisp 18:46:30 tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has joined #lisp 18:46:49 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-26-29.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:18 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-26-29.dip.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 18:48:11 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-26-29.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:48:43 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdsl-92-252-26-29.dip.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 18:51:40 -!- vmCodes [n=vmCodes@94-193-78-23.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 18:52:26 bighouse [n=bighouse@x-132-204-255-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 -!- Lycurgus is now known as JuanDaugherty 18:54:23 -!- ignas [n=ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit ["Download xchat-gnome: apt-get install xchat-gnome"] 18:55:19 mulligan [n=user@e178054167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:56:01 bertskert annotated #69761 with "hej" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69761#2 18:56:25 tic, I'm having problem writing the längd-av-tidsperiod function 18:56:55 How could I do it to make as few calculations as possible? 18:57:36 you have to give the definition of skapa-tidsrymd/skapa-timme/skapa-minut, as I don't know what they do. 18:57:44 (moreover... why do you write code in Swedish?) 18:59:15 Probably the same reason that some people write code in german? 18:59:41 I didn't write all the code, much of it were prewritten 18:59:42 "le_printf" 18:59:58 -!- weirdo [i=sthalik@c144-107.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:00:04 joga: That's the little-endian version, isn't it? 19:00:14 :) 19:01:34 -!- Bzek [n=SK_sj@mcc-dyn-19-182.kosnet.ru] has quit ["l l l o o o v v v e e e"] 19:01:37 nyef, code is written in English! 19:01:42 bertskert, need more code! 19:01:51 ruhroh: fault in heap page 6531 not marked as write-protected 19:02:00 didn't think I was doing anything too bad. time to zap fasls perhaps. 19:02:47 Eleven. Eleven multiply instructions. 19:02:51 *nyef* sighs. 19:02:59 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has quit [] 19:04:02 bertskert, paste more code. 19:04:07 -!- silenius [n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:04:17 nyef: what is your arm target ? a breadboard ? 19:04:31 lhz: An NSLU2. 19:05:27 tic, I'm into writing atm. maybe I'll solve it. I can paste when I'm ready! 19:05:41 Which is ARMv5TE, which explains why I'm only bitching about eleven multiply instructions, not the twenty-one that are available as of ARMv6. 19:05:51 bertskert, I cannot help you without the definition of the skapa-tidsrymd-functions. 19:06:07 jfrancis [n=jfrancis@72.14.224.1] has joined #lisp 19:06:37 nyef: look on the bright side. it's not x86! 19:06:57 rme: True, the x86 instruction set is also a pain to encode. 19:09:43 tic, I've found the error and I'm working on it atm. 19:09:50 -!- mehrheit [n=user@lan-84-240-55-160.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:10:01 bertskert, excellent. let me know what the error and how you solved it later on, will you? 19:11:33 tic, allright =) 19:11:54 mejja [n=user@c-6bbae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:13:10 -!- dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:13:46 Okay, http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/sbcl-arm/port-log.txt updated. 19:14:51 -!- cracki [n=cracki@47-124.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 19:15:17 heh. target-2 on qemu mipsel takes ~12 minutes 19:15:48 malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbc12b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:01 dfox_ [n=dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:17:49 -!- dthomp [n=dat@dyn-188-dynamic.linfield.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:50 -!- dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-67-124-36-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:19:24 dialtone [n=dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:43 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:24:08 minion: logs? 19:24:08 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ ; older logs may be available at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (down as of 2008/09/24) 19:26:05 Riastradh: relating to your sbcl build failure on Solaris/SPARC, this may be relevant: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-help/2007-10/msg00285.html 19:26:59 Riastradh: http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=144 19:27:47 So, it's possible that there's hope for a new build on SPARC/Solaris yet 19:32:14 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:21 rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:52 Soulman [n=kvirc@87.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:57 Is there a reliable way to tell when a lisp is running inside SLIME? 19:37:14 trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-226-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:16 rpg: Lisps don't run inside slime. 19:38:43 They load SWANK, which SLIME then communicates with. 19:39:04 Here's my real problem: I have a program that I am going to be delivering. When I am running it in emacs, a particular command should just call an abort. But when it's a standalone, it calls unix-exit... 19:39:07 So, you can see if swank is loaded, and probably if a connection exists. 19:39:33 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 19:40:12 you could load swank yourself and set up connection hooks 19:41:07 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:41:41 Odd, I don't know why (asdf:find-system :swank) errors while I'm actually running sbcl in slime... 19:41:47 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.112.5] has quit [] 19:42:18 I don't think SWANK actually loads from ASDF by default. 19:43:04 I would recommend just setting a special before delivery. 19:45:02 -!- bighouse [n=bighouse@x-132-204-255-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 19:45:43 (find-package '#:swank) can check for swank too 19:48:14 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has joined #lisp 19:50:03 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-145-135.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["leaving"] 19:50:45 stassats`, chandler, sellout, housel: Thanks! 19:55:02 -!- Xach [n=xach@207.5.178.18] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:55:06 Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:31 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@76.214.15.172] has quit [] 19:58:15 postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-61.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 19:58:43 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has quit [] 19:59:21 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:00:06 mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has joined #lisp 20:03:22 therp [n=nil@chello080108077214.34.11.tuwien.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 20:03:31 -!- therp [n=nil@chello080108077214.34.11.tuwien.teleweb.at] has left #lisp 20:05:05 -!- lhz [n=shrekz@c-3143e455.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:08:13 -!- nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:14:27 rottcodd [n=user@ppp59-167-56-108.lns1.cbr1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:44 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 20:17:03 tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has joined #lisp 20:19:06 -!- photon2 is now known as photon 20:20:41 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has quit [Client Quit] 20:21:18 tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:21:26 Can I use an external package with ignoring style warnings? I see many warnings like "Implicitly creating new generic function xxx". 20:22:22 vasa [n=vasa@mm-179-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #lisp 20:23:29 what do you mean by "external package"? 20:24:15 tomoyuki28jp, the error message sounds like you only have DEFMETHOD forms without the DEFGENERIC. 20:24:17 stassats`: Ones made by someone else. 20:24:27 Oh. 20:24:53 tic: Elephant gives me like 36 of the warnings and it's pretty annoying. 20:25:08 also one with usocket. 20:25:48 pay no attention to them 20:26:07 IMO, that style warning is a bit on the picky side. 20:26:20 otherwise, muffle-warning? 20:26:29 or consult your implementation's documentation about suppressing style warnings 20:26:56 http://l1sp.org/search/muffle perhaps? 20:26:59 ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/session] has joined #lisp 20:28:48 uhm, thanks guys for your advices. 20:29:08 rme: i have grown to love it. well, not love it, but i always use defgeneric now. 20:30:36 is it acceptable in ANSI for (let ((fn (lambda () 42))) (setf #0=(documentation fn t) "Hello") #0#) to answer nil at any optimize level? 20:31:26 given that "An implementation is permitted to discard documentation strings at any time for implementation-defined reasons." 20:31:29 -!- tomoyuki28jp [n=tomoyuki@w221062.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has left #lisp 20:32:50 S11001001: Yes, it is acceptable per the spec. 20:32:51 God, allegro CL is hung up in a loop. how can I break it? 20:33:14 C-c 20:33:22 says copy to me.. 20:33:42 S11001001: Why do you care? 20:33:58 Xach: see, the warning wore down your resistance! 20:34:03 bertskert: click the break icon somewhere 20:34:20 rme: yeah, but i don't grudgingly write defgeneric and curse sbcl under my breath...i actually enjoy that style. 20:34:21 tcr: I was thinking about whether a proper defvar-unbound, that mirrors defvar exactly, would need special treatment to avoid adding a docstring when the implementation would discard it 20:34:40 rme: i can't say the same has happened with other warnings 20:34:40 If you're not cursing SBCL with your every breath, we're not trying hard enough. 20:34:50 xach, there's only one for project runs.. none for evaluation 20:35:05 Is the ACL Windows GUI? 20:35:47 e.g. if what I asked is "no", then a more accurate one would be `(progn (defvar ,sym) (when (documentation (lambda () "x" 42) t) (setf (documentation ',sym 'variable) ',docstring))) 20:35:50 Er. 20:35:56 bertskert: Are you using ACL on Windows with their GUI? 20:37:09 -!- bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:37:29 S11001001: I don't follow that line of reasing. Btw. defvar-unbound sounds like swank's DEFINE-SPECIAL. 20:38:44 if you want to mirror defvar exactly, you should try to match its docstring discarding behavior; that's only straightforward if (setf documentation) is allowed to have the same discarding semantics as the unevalled docstring args of CL forms 20:38:58 bpt [n=bpt@cpe-071-070-209-067.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:59 why not just setf documentation always, be what may? 20:39:26 -!- CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:39:35 sometimes people want docstrings discarded 20:39:56 if the impl provides a way to do that, playing nice is good 20:40:01 I mean, the gist of what the spec says about documentation seems to be "don't count on it being there, no matter how you introduce it" 20:40:05 S11001001: It's not defvar that possibly discards a docstring but (setf documentation) and documentation 20:40:11 I know, that was my question 20:40:27 to which the answer was "yes, (setf documentation) is allowed to be discarded" 20:43:09 defvar is not explicitly specified to expand into the obvious, but since the expansion is pretty obvious... 20:43:41 only if you assume the answer is "yes" ;) 20:43:57 one could imagine a non-CL language in which the answer is "no" 20:44:05 (modulo implementation-specific magic to placate the compiler, but that just adds to the obvious) 20:45:42 btw, defvar is explicitly specified to be a macro, not a special form. so in principle you could just macroexpand a dummy defvar form to see if it contains (setf (documentation ...)) :) 20:46:06 nothing stopping the expansions from calling implementation-specific functions 20:46:17 oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:46:26 -!- trebor_home [n=user@dslb-084-058-226-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 20:47:36 -!- postamar [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-61.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:47:37 postamar_ [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-61.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:47:45 SiDi [n=SiDi@60.74.94-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:47 Hello 20:47:49 malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbc12b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:17 nickga [n=nick@93-97-121-81.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:48:31 in fact, (defvar x 42 "hello")  (progn (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (ccl::note-variable-info 'x t nil)) (unless (ccl::%defvar 'x "hello") (set 'x 42)) 'x) where %defvar is a function 20:49:38 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 20:49:50 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:19 -!- mattrepl [n=mattrepl@129.174.88.5] has quit [] 20:51:21 [1]edon [n=edon@82.114.94.5] has joined #lisp 20:51:49 -!- edon is now known as Guest44205 20:52:14 -!- nickga [n=nick@93-97-121-81.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:52:20 -!- [1]edon is now known as edon 20:52:43 -!- oudeis [n=oudeis@p11811112.orange.net.il] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:52:53 chandler: Are you using ACL on Windows with their GUI? Yes. 20:53:14 -!- Guest44205 [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:53:22 josemanuel [n=josemanu@31.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:54:39 bertskert: I don't think many people here are using that, especially since Freenode is for discussion of free-as-in-libre software. 20:56:50 nikodemus`: ping 20:56:56 -!- Xach [n=xach@unnamed.xach.com] has left #lisp 20:57:26 CrazyEddy [n=CrazyEdd@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 20:58:55 chandler, you suggest Emacs? 20:59:42 bertskert, SBCL probably. Emacs Lisp is not Common Lisp. 20:59:53 nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:59:57 bertskert, but, Emacs is a development environment for Lisp, if you download SLIME. 21:00:34 -!- postamar_ [n=postamar@x-132-204-255-61.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [] 21:00:43 bertskert pasted "screen" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69768 21:00:54 bertskert: I'm not necessarily making a suggestion - only saying that I really can't answer questions about how to use ACL on Windows. 21:01:02 ok 21:01:14 jlouis [n=jlouis@port1394.ds1-vby.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 21:01:19 bertskert: I seem to recall that you are learning as part of a class, so I would say that you should follow what your professor has suggested. 21:02:03 bertskert, you still lack the definition of the structure tidsperiod 21:02:04 Is there any function in Lisp that would do what display does in Scheme ? 21:02:05 -!- epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has quit ["  "] 21:02:13 *tic* guesses bertskert is a student at LiTH. 21:03:22 bertskert annotated #69768 with "input" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/69768#1 21:04:01 -!- malumalu_ [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbc12b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 21:04:28 clhs print 21:04:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 21:04:43 -!- malumalu [n=malu@hnvr-4dbbc12b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:56 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:05:11 dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:17 minion, tell bertskert about pcl-book 21:05:17 bertskert: please see pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:05:54 does sbcl on windows have possibility of interruption? 21:05:59 bertskert, you should read that to get a better understanding of Common Lisp in general, if the material you've been given isn't good enough. 21:06:02 SiDi: PRINC is the analogue to display. 21:06:09 chandler, thanks :) 21:06:15 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@31.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 21:07:01 I have a really hard time to read code written in Swedish. Don't know if it's because of the differing naming standards or what it is. 21:07:14 tic, ok I will 21:08:53 -!- nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:11:21 matley [n=matley@91.80.193.4] has joined #lisp 21:15:36 -!- mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:16:03 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:19:43 josemanuel [n=josemanu@31.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:20:09 silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-073-069-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:34 m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:21:40 mathrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:22:34 -!- neurogeek [n=neurogee@gentoo/developer/neurogeek] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:24:29 cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:21 -!- dmitry_vk [n=dvk@91.144.141.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:43 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has joined #lisp 21:28:58 -!- lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:29:31 lemonodor [n=lemonodo@66.43.112.62] has joined #lisp 21:30:01 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A259D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["..."] 21:31:59 b4|hraban [n=b4@0brg.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:34:27 -!- Eleanore [n=a@c-b273e155.185-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:34:43 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:35:35 tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 AshyIsMe [n=User@b415.adsl.ecomtel.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:38:33 silenius_ [n=jl@dslb-088-073-069-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:00 -!- silenius [n=jl@dslb-088-073-069-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:39:07 tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has joined #lisp 21:40:06 prhlava [n=vladimir@79-69-53-31.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:38 bertskert: I must away, but I do use ACL, and might be able to help you later. I /don't/ use the Windows version, though, nor do I use their IDE --- I use emacs. So I may not be able to help. 21:41:45 ok, away now. back on later. 21:41:58 -!- rpg [n=rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [] 21:45:31 hrm... no xach ATM 21:47:20 -!- Jasko2 [n=tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:47:51 -!- envi^home [n=envi@220.121.234.156] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:49:00 ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:49:24 -!- ThomasIl [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:27 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has quit [] 21:51:00 fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:42 -!- prhlava [n=vladimir@79-69-53-31.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #lisp 21:52:39 -!- cemerick [n=la_mer@75.147.38.122] has quit [] 21:52:50 rvirding [n=chatzill@h235n3c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:19 -!- dlowe [n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["*poof*"] 21:54:10 Jasko [n=tjasko@c-98-235-21-22.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:34 disumu [n=disumu@p57A259D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:32 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.208.195] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:00:20 nikodemus` [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:01:20 -!- davazp [n=user@72.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:02:26 -!- ThomasI [n=thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:02:36 -!- disumu [n=disumu@p57A259D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:05:59 jao [n=user@72.Red-79-155-244.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:59 -!- sellout [n=greg@guest-fw.dc4.itasoftware.com] has quit [] 22:10:13 -!- nikodemus_ [n=nikodemu@cs27013130.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:11:31 Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.60.168] has joined #lisp 22:12:59 -!- mishok13 [n=gdmfsob@92.112.121.216] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:16:26 -!- LiamH [n=none@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:18:43 -!- cadabra [n=cadabra@69.169.136.43.provo.static.broadweave.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:19:48 hmmm 22:24:14 chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1fb3.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 22:25:13 -!- SiDi [n=SiDi@60.74.94-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:25:17 What is the prototype of an accessor? 22:26:35 Say I have (defclass a () ((x :accessor acc-x))) and (defclass b () ((x :type cons))) and I want to define myself an accessor ACC-X for the class B (I don't want the generated one) 22:27:02 you just make a defmethod with that name, specialized on an arg of class B 22:27:20 (defmethod acc-x ((x b)) (do-something-with x)) 22:27:29 antifuchs: what about the "writer" side? 22:27:47 (defmethod (setf acc-x) (new-value (x b)) ...) 22:27:48 (defmethod (setf acc-x) (new-value (x b)) ...) ;then 22:27:54 *chandler* wins! 22:27:55 chandler: uncanny 22:27:57 -!- Tordek [n=tordek@host79.190-137-181.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:28:14 antifuchs: oh ok. Nothing special to it then. Thanks a lot. 22:28:15 -!- fusss [n=chatzill@pool-72-66-40-106.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:25 right (: 22:28:31 evenin' 22:29:34 -!- ehu [i=52aa21ad@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c7131afc02748d68] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:33:02 -!- silenius_ [n=jl@dslb-088-073-069-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:37:58 -!- tcr [n=tcr@host145.natpool.mwn.de] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:38:46 epoch [n=K-I-S-S@p3m/member/epoch] has joined #lisp 22:42:27 _jpl_ [n=John@dhcp-vpn-2-7.ucsc.edu] has joined #lisp 22:46:36 kleppari [n=spa@nat1-krokhals.netberg.is] has joined #lisp 22:48:35 slash_ [n=Unknown@whgeh0138.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:50:03 Zephtar [n=srusek@d62-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:52:34 -!- Zephtar [n=srusek@d62-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:56:56 -!- matley [n=matley@91.80.193.4] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:34 -!- photon [n=photon@unaffiliated/photon] has left #lisp 22:58:59 -!- chitech [n=khuongdp@0x573a1fb3.svgnqu2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:28 Why is this? (eq 'sep (first '('sep))) => nil 23:02:07 equality is special in lisp, check out PCL 23:02:29 where in PCL? 23:03:01 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/syntax-and-semantics.html 23:03:06 search for EQL 23:03:28 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 23:05:20 (f 'sep (first '('sep))) => t, is f possible to do in lisp? since none of the equality functions do it? 23:05:34 bertskert: the problem is not with eq. 'foo === (quote foo), so '('sep)) === (quote (quote sep)) 23:06:07 but first of ('sep) is 'sep, right? 23:06:16 try (eq 'sep (first '(sep))) 23:06:38 benny`: Don't give out bad advice. 23:07:24 ah, now I see. thx! 23:08:04 -!- vcgomes is now known as vcgomes[away] 23:08:24 won't happen again 23:09:20 dalton [n=id@201-95-15-80.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:09:46 tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has joined #lisp 23:13:57 holycow [n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:09 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-3de94769db230121] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:19:08 bobbysmith0071 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 23:19:15 rincewind [n=rincewin@e178221020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:21:02 -!- tritchey [n=tritchey@207.88.52.19] has quit [] 23:21:10 -!- josemanuel [n=josemanu@31.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["Saliendo"] 23:22:16 -!- willb [n=wibenton@wireless119.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:23:25 ace4016 [i=ace4016@cpe-76-168-248-118.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:33 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-021e2f8768b39aa0] has joined #lisp 23:29:01 disumu [n=disumu@p57A24BA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:02 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-021e2f8768b39aa0] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:31:04 -!- Maghnus [n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:31:04 -!- Yuuhi [i=benni@p5483F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:33:07 -!- dalton is now known as ausente 23:35:32 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-878337aa3a4f8ffa] has joined #lisp 23:36:37 -!- bobbysmith007 [n=russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36:38 -!- kidd [n=kidd@167.Red-79-147-12.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["WeeChat 0.2.6"] 23:36:47 ivanst [i=ivans@89-172-26-204.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:37:29 -!- vasa [n=vasa@mm-179-88-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["I am not vasya, i am vasa"] 23:39:23 yangsx [n=yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 23:39:37 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:10 -!- edon [n=edon@albalug/edon] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:41:40 -!- bertskert [n=mor_och_@c83-252-190-193.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 23:42:27 -!- m4thrick [n=mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 23:44:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-98-244-152-196.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:51 spiderbyte [n=dcl@unaffiliated/dcl] has joined #lisp 23:54:16 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-105-2-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:55:30 O_4 [n=souchan@ip-118-90-65-112.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:55:56 -!- rincewind [n=rincewin@e178221020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 23:57:06 -!- Jacob_H [n=jacob@92.3.60.168] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:58:21 gloaming [n=steve@c-76-113-7-71.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:43 -!- benny` [n=benny@i577A0203.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:59:47 -!- acrid [n=mckay@reverse.control4.com] has quit ["Leaving."]