2017-10-01T01:15:41Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-01T01:31:08Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-01T02:04:59Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-01T02:20:19Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-01T02:30:30Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-01T03:29:35Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-01T03:37:20Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-01T05:04:39Z ddp joined #ccl 2017-10-01T05:08:38Z ddp quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-01T05:19:58Z taof joined #ccl 2017-10-01T05:24:32Z taof quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-01T05:39:11Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-01T11:03:24Z phoe joined #ccl 2017-10-01T11:03:46Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-01T11:03:52Z phoe: Hey, I got a fun error today. 2017-10-01T11:03:53Z phoe: http://paste.lisp.org/display/357384 2017-10-01T11:04:03Z phoe: when attempting to load https://github.com/phoe/cl-lzma 2017-10-01T11:04:22Z phoe: Not only something is failing while loading the library, but also something is failing when trying to print the type-error, it seems. 2017-10-01T11:05:03Z phoe: Added an annotation with backtrace. 2017-10-01T11:06:26Z pjb: Only the simple-errors have a format-control… 2017-10-01T11:07:27Z phoe: Huh. Correct. 2017-10-01T11:07:40Z phoe: Does it mean a bug in CFFI? 2017-10-01T11:07:46Z pjb: I would say so. 2017-10-01T11:08:26Z pjb: But catching simple-type-error may not be enough. You still want to catch type-error, only provide your own format-control in that case. 2017-10-01T11:11:50Z phoe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/1720626 then. 2017-10-01T11:12:09Z phoe: Hah, and here I thought I would be pushing CL-LZMA to Quicklisp today. 2017-10-01T11:22:45Z logand joined #ccl 2017-10-01T11:24:29Z logand: hi is there a ccl way to open a file as bivalent stream? 2017-10-01T11:26:15Z phoe: logand: bivalent, you mean read/write? 2017-10-01T11:26:39Z |3b|: looks like sockets have a :bivalent option, don't see anything in docs for files 2017-10-01T11:26:39Z logand: i mean octet + char at the same time 2017-10-01T11:27:09Z logand: yeah, sockets are, there is something for serial streams and make-fd-stream 2017-10-01T11:27:32Z logand: maybe i just need to open a file as binary, get fd and make-fd-stream 2017-10-01T11:27:49Z logand: i just thought that there would be something built-in 2017-10-01T11:58:55Z logand quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-01T12:42:28Z 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2017-10-03T06:27:46Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-03T06:40:09Z jdz: dim: (just curious) what exactly does not work? My cursory look at ccl script does not reveal any bashisms. 2017-10-03T07:00:12Z pjb: exec ${CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY}/${OPENMCL_KERNEL} "$@" --> exec "${CCL_DEFAULT_DIRECTORY}/${OPENMCL_KERNEL}" "$@" 2017-10-03T07:00:21Z pjb: always quote all variable references in shell… 2017-10-03T07:02:08Z pjb: Otherwise, indeed, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work on sh. Perhaps it's a problem with uname on alpine linux? What's uname -s and uname -m on alpine linux? 2017-10-03T08:11:45Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-03T08:14:35Z hhdave_ joined #ccl 2017-10-03T08:16:05Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T08:16:05Z hhdave_ is now known as hhdave 2017-10-03T08:55:28Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-03T09:24:45Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-03T09:29:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T09:52:34Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-03T10:13:28Z dim: I switched back to debian and sbcl on this instance, and didn't invest time/energy to help debug the problem 2017-10-03T10:14:30Z dim: if you're using docker tho it's really easy to reproduce, use FROM alpine, WORKDIR /usr/local/src RUN svn co ccl in /usr/local/src and COPY /usr/local/src/ccl/scripts/ccl64 /usr/local/bin/ccl, then try using it, maybe with RUN ccl --version 2017-10-03T11:21:01Z dim: /usr/local/bin/ccl: exec: line 81: /usr/local/src/ccl/lx86cl64: not found 2017-10-03T11:21:25Z dim: FROM alpine 2017-10-03T11:21:25Z dim: RUN apk add --no-cache subversion 2017-10-03T11:21:25Z dim: WORKDIR /usr/local/src 2017-10-03T11:21:25Z dim: RUN svn co http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/release/1.11/linuxx86/ccl 2017-10-03T11:21:25Z dim: RUN cp /usr/local/src/ccl/scripts/ccl64 /usr/local/bin/ccl 2017-10-03T11:21:26Z dim: RUN ccl --version 2017-10-03T11:21:34Z dim: that's only 6 lines, so I pasted it here, sorry if that's already too much 2017-10-03T11:21:46Z dim: so given this Dockerfile, you can reproduce the bug 2017-10-03T11:25:29Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-03T11:29:39Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-03T11:32:24Z dim: with quotes as suggested by pjb I get: /bin/sh: ccl: Permission denied 2017-10-03T11:32:32Z dim: oh sorry, my bug 2017-10-03T11:33:00Z dim: still /usr/local/bin/ccl: exec: line 81: /usr/local/src/ccl/lx86cl64: not found 2017-10-03T11:33:35Z dim: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 863457 Oct 3 11:18 /usr/local/src/ccl/lx86cl64 2017-10-03T11:33:40Z dim: that's from the container 2017-10-03T11:58:05Z jdz: dim: can it be that the wrong arch binary is being executed? 2017-10-03T11:59:01Z jdz: Isn't ccl64 supposed to execute the 64-bit binary? 2017-10-03T12:05:21Z dim: I added some confusion and coped the ccl64 script as /usr/local/bin/ccl because I'm only interested in the 64 bits version 2017-10-03T12:16:11Z BitPuffin|osx joined #ccl 2017-10-03T12:50:08Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-03T12:59:19Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-03T13:06:14Z pjb: dim: I would use: RUN cp -a … to preserve permissions, etc. 2017-10-03T13:06:30Z pjb: dim: did the ccl --version work? 2017-10-03T13:07:13Z pjb: You can also use: install -m 755 /usr/local/src/ccl/scripts/ccl64 /usr/local/bin/ccl # instead of cp. install is better since it allows you to set the access rights. 2017-10-03T13:17:53Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T13:27:22Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T13:29:29Z dim: pjb: the perms problem was that my local copy of the ccl script didn't have +x, now that it does, no problem anymore 2017-10-03T13:39:14Z milanj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-03T13:40:28Z pjb: dim: beware, by default cp only copies the permissions allowed by UMASK. 2017-10-03T13:41:06Z pjb: dim: security-aware users may mask off x bit in their umask… 2017-10-03T13:50:53Z dim: if you want to help I suggest you try reproducing the bug rather than lecturing me about a problem I told you I've solved locally 2017-10-03T13:53:10Z pjb: dim: AFAICS, it's not a bug, it's a feature: you install something without the correct access right, unix will protect against invalid access. 2017-10-03T13:53:18Z pjb: s/correct/expected/ 2017-10-03T14:27:51Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-03T15:45:24Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-03T16:17:03Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T16:31:35Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-03T17:28:38Z phoe: so - it seems that we have decided that CCLDOC is the format and renderer that we want to use for Common Lisp UltraSpec. 2017-10-03T17:29:21Z phoe: I've lurked in the CCLDOC package a little bit and found out that it's not-so-tightly coupled to CCL - imports only ~20 symbols from the CCL package and uses a handful of others. 2017-10-03T17:29:22Z pjb: yay 2017-10-03T17:30:02Z pjb: yes, that's a problem with implementers, they use their implementation. 2017-10-03T17:30:11Z phoe: D'oh, I don't think it's too much of a problem. 2017-10-03T17:30:31Z phoe: I thought of creating a CCL-COMPAT Quicklisp system that, on CCL, will do absolutely nothing, but on non-CCL, will create a CCL package with the appropriate compatibility functionality. 2017-10-03T17:30:37Z pjb: I guess most of those symbols are wrapper by swank for slime. 2017-10-03T17:30:41Z phoe: Either reimplementations of stubs. 2017-10-03T17:30:53Z pjb: wrapped 2017-10-03T17:31:09Z phoe: https://github.com/Clozure/ccldoc/blob/master/source/package.lisp#L6 2017-10-03T17:31:32Z phoe: and http://paste.lisp.org/display/357584 2017-10-03T17:32:25Z phoe: These don't look like *too* much work. 2017-10-03T17:33:11Z pjb: Indeed. 2017-10-03T17:33:30Z pjb: I forsee a portable-ccldoc quicklisp system… 2017-10-03T17:33:41Z phoe: pjb: yep. 2017-10-03T17:33:44Z phoe: I'd love that. 2017-10-03T17:33:59Z phoe: it'd work "natively" on CCL and grab a compat package on non-CCL. 2017-10-03T17:38:17Z bugrum joined #ccl 2017-10-03T17:58:10Z Merv joined #ccl 2017-10-03T18:12:31Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-03T18:52:53Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-03T18:53:01Z milanj quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-03T19:14:44Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-03T19:26:53Z bugrum quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-03T19:31:46Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-03T19:32:10Z milanj quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-03T19:36:47Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-03T19:37:11Z milanj quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-03T19:54:11Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-03T19:58:23Z phoe: so, a few tiny functions are portable 2017-10-03T19:58:39Z phoe: but there are a few mammoths in here that likely pull half of CCL into them 2017-10-03T19:58:41Z phoe: https://github.com/phoe/ccl-compat/blob/master/ccl-compat.lisp 2017-10-03T19:59:09Z phoe: https://github.com/phoe/ccl-compat/blob/master/ccl-compat.lisp#L179 <- this thing is the scariest 2017-10-03T20:22:58Z phoe: question: where is #'NEQ defined? What is it? 2017-10-03T20:23:17Z phoe: I see it used for symbols, functions and numbers. 2017-10-03T20:23:55Z phoe: And I see https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/blob/master/compiler/X86/x862.lisp#L8055 but its definition seems to be equal to EQ, which makes no sense to me. 2017-10-03T20:31:02Z phoe: Is it basically equivalent to NOT EQ? (I ask because it behaves like it.) 2017-10-03T20:35:11Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-03T20:39:18Z phoe: okay, I figured out what PKG-ARG does 2017-10-03T20:39:35Z phoe: it looks like a side effect of my effort *might* be a bit more documentation of CCL code 2017-10-03T20:43:43Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-03T21:17:18Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-03T21:26:33Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-03T21:29:51Z sjl quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-03T21:33:09Z phoe: as for ccldoc, https://github.com/Clozure/ccldoc/issues/4 2017-10-03T21:33:48Z phoe: I'm trying to create a ccl-compat library that will allow me to make CCLDOC cross-implementation, hopefully without any CCLDOC patches 2017-10-03T21:33:55Z phoe: and I'm trying to understand its code in meantime. 2017-10-03T21:34:47Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-03T21:42:34Z xrme: phoe: Let's use GitHub for issues. The Trac is still around, and there's still some activity on some older tickets there, but I'd like future activity to take place on GitHub. 2017-10-03T21:44:14Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-03T21:44:44Z xrme: In ccldoc, *nx-source-note-map* is used to make M-. work on the forms that precede the document contents. Note that it's imported from the ccl package. It isn't needed to process a ccldoc document. 2017-10-03T21:52:49Z phoe: xrme: oh, okay. 2017-10-03T21:53:39Z phoe: I am wondering how much of CCL I need to pull in order to make CCLDOC behave somewhat competently on other implementations. 2017-10-03T21:54:04Z phoe: But, I believe that I won't be reading Lisp source files directly, so M-. is not a big requirement. 2017-10-03T21:54:27Z phoe: And not caring about source notes will greadly simplfy the code that I need to pull. 2017-10-03T21:55:38Z phoe: In which case, READ-RECORDING-SOURCE in portable-CCLDOC would just be a call to CL:READ. Am I correct there? 2017-10-03T21:55:46Z xrme: Yes, I think so. 2017-10-03T21:57:16Z phoe: Good. Another huge chunk of code stubbed out. 2017-10-03T21:57:26Z xrme: load-to-ccldoc-form is just trying to act like cl:load until it sees a ccdoc form. 2017-10-03T21:57:49Z phoe: I see. At this point, it's CCLDOC itself that takes control, correct? 2017-10-03T21:58:14Z xrme: That's why it's binding *readtable*, *load-pathname*, and so forth. 2017-10-03T21:58:27Z phoe: I see. 2017-10-03T21:59:17Z phoe: https://github.com/phoe/ccl-compat/blob/master/ccl-compat.lisp#L15 <- do I understand PKG-ARG correctly? 2017-10-03T22:02:21Z xrme: I'm not sure right off hand, but I think that it's basically find-package. 2017-10-03T22:04:50Z phoe: I think the same thing. 2017-10-03T22:05:08Z phoe: Or rather, ensure-package. 2017-10-03T22:05:17Z phoe: Since it can accept deleted package objects. 2017-10-03T22:06:49Z phoe: Goodness, there are parts of CCL that could use some decent refactoring. 2017-10-03T22:07:44Z xrme: It's old. And you have to balance "this needs a re-write" with "this code works". 2017-10-03T22:08:41Z phoe: The second is so much more valuable. 2017-10-03T22:09:00Z phoe: But, for example, the COND on https://github.com/phoe/ccl-compat/blob/master/ccl-compat.lisp#L16 is basically a TYPECASE. 2017-10-03T22:09:07Z phoe: Simple and silly things like that. 2017-10-03T22:12:00Z xrme: The programmer just wrote the expansion of typecase by hand. 2017-10-03T22:12:22Z sabetts left #ccl 2017-10-03T22:14:30Z phoe: Yes, I see. I'd zip it back up to save up on some bytes and perhaps gain some readability, since I think macros, especially standard ones, are there to be used. But then again, I'm only six years older than CCL itself. 2017-10-03T22:14:41Z phoe: So I might still need more experience when it comes to this stuff. 2017-10-03T22:18:30Z phoe: Okay - sleep time for now. If I'm lucky, I might be able to make this baby take off tomorrow. 2017-10-03T22:18:33Z phoe: Night. 2017-10-03T23:00:47Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-03T23:05:06Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-03T23:09:34Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-04T00:14:09Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-04T00:16:24Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-04T01:18:24Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-04T02:16:21Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2017-10-04T03:03:29Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-04T03:08:45Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-04T03:18:06Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-04T03:25:42Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-04T03:33:09Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-04T04:06:57Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-04T05:11:59Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-04T05:12:19Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-04T05:54:36Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-04T06:56:50Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 255 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2017-10-05T20:32:04Z xieyuheng joined #ccl 2017-10-05T20:32:12Z xieyuheng: ccl moved to github ?! 2017-10-05T20:32:20Z xieyuheng: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl 2017-10-05T20:36:12Z sabetts: looks like 2017-10-05T20:38:27Z phoe: What does #'CCL:NFUNCTION do? 2017-10-05T20:48:29Z |3b|: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/blob/master/level-1/l1-unicode.lisp#L289 ? 2017-10-05T20:48:36Z |3b|: looks like named-lambda 2017-10-05T20:49:51Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-05T20:50:59Z phoe: named-lambda, yes. 2017-10-05T20:52:17Z sabetts: that IS handy for debugging. 2017-10-05T21:02:31Z |3b|: there is alexandria:named-lambda if you want a portable version 2017-10-05T21:03:42Z phoe: |3b|: this is exactly what I am using while posting CCLDOC 2017-10-05T21:05:52Z phoe: YES! I managed to load CCLDOC on SBCL with only minor patches to the repo and a whole hella lotta shitty code copypasted from CCL. 2017-10-05T21:07:24Z phoe: And now, only to make it work... 2017-10-05T21:14:59Z phoe: gaaaah, it is not even standard-compliant, defining a class named CL:BLOCK 2017-10-05T21:25:18Z |3b|: :shadow #:block :p 2017-10-05T21:26:05Z |3b|: and a macro if it actually uses the normal definition 2017-10-05T21:28:38Z phoe: |3b|: ha, you wish 2017-10-05T21:30:51Z |3b|: :) 2017-10-05T21:31:29Z phoe: shadowing block causes problems the moment you attempt to :use :cl 2017-10-05T21:31:32Z phoe: so pretty much all the time 2017-10-05T21:31:45Z phoe: because you get a symbol conflice 2017-10-05T21:31:47Z phoe: t 2017-10-05T21:31:58Z phoe: anyway, https://i.imgur.com/tA1ge7s.png https://i.imgur.com/GRkY0QZ.png 2017-10-05T21:32:09Z phoe: I managed to load CCLDOC and output HTML from it on SBCL 2017-10-05T21:32:56Z |3b|: ? whole point of shadow is to not get a conflict 2017-10-05T21:35:03Z phoe: https://i.imgtc.com/MxCIbDC.png https://i.imgtc.com/MxCIbDC.pnghttps://i.imgtc.com/MxCIbDC.png 2017-10-05T21:35:03Z phoe: ugh, sorry about that, I'm getting connection breaks 2017-10-05T21:38:33Z xieyuheng left #ccl 2017-10-05T21:39:58Z phoe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-05T22:05:45Z phoe joined #ccl 2017-10-05T22:06:36Z phoe: https://i.imgtc.com/MxCIbDC.png <- przeportowałem CCLDOCa poza CCL 2017-10-05T22:10:49Z phoe: fuck, wrong channel 2017-10-05T22:30:30Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-05T22:42:56Z phoe_ joined #ccl 2017-10-05T22:49:17Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-05T22:54:23Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-05T23:27:48Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T00:24:56Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-06T00:49:28Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T01:13:21Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T01:16:26Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-06T01:38:27Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-06T02:05:19Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T02:05:34Z jdz joined #ccl 2017-10-06T02:09:59Z gz__ joined #ccl 2017-10-06T02:11:38Z lacedaemon joined #ccl 2017-10-06T02:12:38Z gz_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T02:12:38Z fe[nl]ix quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2017-10-06T02:12:46Z gz__ is now known as gz_ 2017-10-06T02:25:09Z |3b|` joined #ccl 2017-10-06T02:25:53Z |3b| quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-06T02:31:18Z |3b|`` joined #ccl 2017-10-06T02:32:55Z xrme: phoe: thanks for the PR; I'll review soon. 2017-10-06T02:36:00Z |3b|` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T03:44:36Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-06T03:53:43Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-06T04:05:01Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T04:06:29Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-06T04:12:07Z itruslove quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-06T04:50:40Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-06T04:52:57Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-06T05:36:16Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-06T06:03:04Z phoe: xrme: I will fix up my PR, thanks for the notes. 2017-10-06T06:17:09Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T06:19:46Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-06T06:35:58Z phoe quit (Quit: leaving) 2017-10-06T06:38:01Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T07:00:06Z itruslove joined #ccl 2017-10-06T07:18:00Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-06T07:47:52Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T07:49:22Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-06T07:56:45Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-06T08:17:59Z phoe_: xrme: fixed my stuff up. 2017-10-06T09:08:05Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T09:19:38Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-06T11:35:41Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-06T12:06:54Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-06T12:39:50Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T12:40:33Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T13:16:07Z |3b|`` is now known as |3b| 2017-10-06T13:19:28Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-06T13:24:10Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-06T13:36:31Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-06T13:57:40Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T16:28:08Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-06T16:31:43Z milanj quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-06T16:33:05Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-06T16:47:13Z brucem quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2017-10-06T16:53:44Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-06T17:22:58Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T17:32:33Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-06T18:08:14Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-06T18:23:18Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-06T18:38:57Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-06T18:49:17Z rumbler3_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T19:13:30Z eschatologist quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T19:53:50Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-06T21:03:23Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-06T21:28:38Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-06T21:29:03Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-06T21:30:17Z milanj quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-06T21:49:04Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-06T22:41:17Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-06T23:04:18Z brucem joined #ccl 2017-10-06T23:05:23Z brucem quit (Changing host) 2017-10-06T23:05:23Z brucem joined #ccl 2017-10-06T23:11:04Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-06T23:14:14Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-07T00:26:36Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-07T01:03:49Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T01:42:02Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-07T01:54:49Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-07T02:03:15Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-07T03:03:53Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T03:08:40Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-07T04:06:08Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T04:11:41Z clintm joined #ccl 2017-10-07T04:11:46Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-07T04:29:32Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-07T04:30:15Z clintm joined #ccl 2017-10-07T06:07:52Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T06:12:17Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-07T07:08:34Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T07:11:51Z clintm: Is this a "known thing"? ccl: (format nil "~,,2f%" (coerce (/ 10 1576) 'float)) -> "0.0063451775%" but in sbcl "0.63451775%" 2017-10-07T07:13:03Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-07T07:18:14Z phoe_: clhs ~f 2017-10-07T07:18:16Z phoe_: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/22_cca.htm 2017-10-07T07:18:45Z phoe_: the scale factor in FORMAT seems broken 2017-10-07T07:18:59Z clintm: oh man, I'm going to have to remember to use clhs more. 2017-10-07T07:19:08Z phoe_: d'oh :) 2017-10-07T07:19:29Z clintm: phoe_: it would seem so, but I didn't want to say given how many holes are in my immediate knowledge of format. 2017-10-07T07:20:01Z phoe_: clintm: the spec says that k is a scaling format, and in here you don't get the output scaled by 10². 2017-10-07T07:20:40Z phoe_: so obviously, the spec is wrong, hm (: 2017-10-07T07:20:43Z clintm: haha 2017-10-07T07:20:48Z clintm: of course! 2017-10-07T07:21:53Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-07T08:00:57Z clintm: I gather from other comments around the net that new issues should be submitted to github. Let me know if I should duplicate or move it to trac. 2017-10-07T08:24:44Z phoe_: clintm: according to xrme's words, github is the future of issues. 2017-10-07T09:09:23Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T09:13:37Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-07T09:34:57Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-10-07T09:59:12Z phoe_: ha, I found a bug! 2017-10-07T09:59:24Z phoe_: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/blob/003917cbbce90b7a7b5fa4bf90e9fe424e5637e9/lib/level-2.lisp#L117 2017-10-07T09:59:44Z phoe_: the variable REASON seems to always be the value of (format nil "it does not contain at least ~d elements" min) because the value of the previous IF is discarded. 2017-10-07T10:00:18Z phoe_: ...wait a second 2017-10-07T10:00:27Z phoe_: it is WHEN in my version of the code, and not IF. 2017-10-07T10:00:43Z clintm: The plot thickens... 2017-10-07T10:02:24Z phoe_: the fuck 2017-10-07T10:02:37Z phoe_: well, I found a bug, but not in CCL! 2017-10-07T10:02:43Z phoe_: (and most likely in my head) 2017-10-07T10:02:52Z clintm: haha! 2017-10-07T10:03:01Z clintm: Well, that's a bright spot, I guess. 2017-10-07T10:03:20Z clintm: That begs the question though... where is the bug? 2017-10-07T10:06:01Z phoe_: AFAIR, I screwed up while cleaning up that function in CCLDOC's copy of the code. 2017-10-07T10:06:17Z phoe_: s/CCLDOC/CCL-COMPAT/ 2017-10-07T10:17:17Z phoe_: Where are CCL's internal tests stored? As in, tests that check if the implementation functions correctly. 2017-10-07T10:17:24Z phoe_: Regression tests et cetera. 2017-10-07T10:19:07Z phoe_: I can see that it loads CL ANSI tests and executes them. Anything other than that? 2017-10-07T10:41:14Z clintm: Does it mean anything other than "you messed something up" if compiler/optimizers.lisp seems to hang things up when rebuilding? 2017-10-07T10:47:01Z clintm: nevermind, I must have done something wrong - I gave it a smoke and it's still churning. 2017-10-07T10:57:26Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-07T11:10:08Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T11:14:41Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-07T13:04:09Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T13:08:49Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-07T14:05:05Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T14:09:58Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-07T14:28:30Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-07T15:16:31Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-07T15:39:46Z xrme: clintm: it sounds like you might be trying to build 1.12-dev sources with 1.11-release binaries. That doesn't work. 2017-10-07T17:41:46Z xrme: phoe_: for tests, see https://github.com/Clozure/ccl-tests 2017-10-07T17:48:15Z clintm: xrme: that's almost certainly what I was trying to do. thanks! 2017-10-07T17:49:24Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-07T17:56:43Z phoe_: xrme: thanks. 2017-10-07T18:35:09Z emaczen joined #ccl 2017-10-07T18:35:54Z emaczen: does the cocoa-bridge exist only when built with darwin? 2017-10-07T18:38:29Z phoe_: I bet it has no reason to exist otherwise since there is no cocoa to link against 2017-10-07T18:38:52Z emaczen: phoe_: aren't there two opensource versions of cocoa that run on linux? 2017-10-07T18:38:58Z emaczen: I can't remember what they are called. 2017-10-07T18:39:06Z pjb: emaczen: yes. And unfortunately, it is highly ccl and Apple objc specific. 2017-10-07T18:39:33Z pjb: GNUstep 2017-10-07T18:39:46Z pjb: There's GNUstep on MS-Windows, Linux and Darwin. And there's Cocotron on MS-Windows. 2017-10-07T18:39:50Z emaczen: pjb: yes, didn't CCL used to be able to work with GNUstep 2017-10-07T18:39:56Z pjb: Never. 2017-10-07T18:40:05Z emaczen: then Cocotron? 2017-10-07T18:40:29Z pjb: There's another bridge, but it's old, and only works with objc 1 with gcc, not with objc 2. 2017-10-07T18:41:52Z emaczen: pjb: It is completely dead with no plans of renovation? 2017-10-07T18:43:00Z pjb: I have plans to work on it, because I would very much like to have a ccl independent objc bridge, notably on Linux with GNUstep. But unfortunately, I have no time to work on it. 2017-10-07T18:45:12Z emaczen: pjb: the objc integration is so nice... ABCL and Clasp aren't far along enough from what I have heard/tried -- I haven't tried Clasp yet, but I just asked in #clasp 2017-10-07T18:46:13Z pjb: The objc runtime is a simple C library, and purely dynamic. So with CFFI you can make a good bridge. 2017-10-07T19:03:24Z xrme: Several years ago, there was some basic support for gnustep in the objc bridge code, but that has bit rotted for sure. 2017-10-07T19:04:18Z xrme: Cocotron support was somewhat better, but it's been a while since anyone has worked on it. I bet it could be made to work again. 2017-10-07T19:07:48Z xrme: But as I've said before, I think native is the only way to go. I know others disagree, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. 2017-10-07T19:08:39Z xrme: The only problem is that there is not really any "native" when speaking of the free Unix desktop user interface... 2017-10-07T19:10:15Z phoe_: "native" means a choice between CFFI and CFFI 2017-10-07T19:10:30Z phoe_: or talking directly to X 2017-10-07T19:13:45Z emaczen: What is the issue with Openstep and native? 2017-10-07T19:57:47Z phoe_: xrme: I want to put a docstring on #NEQ 2017-10-07T19:57:50Z phoe_: ugh 2017-10-07T19:58:30Z phoe_: xrme: I want to put a docstring on #'NEQ because it's not obvious that it's basically NOT EQ. Where should I put that docstring, since NEQ, as a very primitive function, has no DEFUN? 2017-10-07T19:59:13Z pjb: (setf (documentation #'neq 't) "docstring" (documentation 'neq 'function) "docstring") 2017-10-07T20:00:50Z xrme: phoe_: neq seems to bug you a lot. just change it to (not (eq ...)) in the ccldoc sources. I think it's used only once. 2017-10-07T20:03:10Z phoe_: xrme: I went the other way around, (defun ccl:neq (x y) (not (eq x y))). Still, I think that it deserves a docstring as a symbol exported from the CCL package in CCL. 2017-10-07T20:04:02Z xrme: fair enough. it should certainly be documented in the manual, and it isn't. 2017-10-07T20:04:58Z phoe_: Hence my original question - there's no DEFUN that I slap a docstring onto. 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rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-11T07:54:23Z clintm: I haven't seen any evidence to suggest it has, but I thought I would ask anyway: Is there a workaround or any other solution to the windows (ccl:quit) issue? 2017-10-11T07:56:49Z phoe_: #+ccl (#__exit 0) at the end of your quit hooks 2017-10-11T07:57:03Z clintm: ! 2017-10-11T07:57:12Z clintm: Ok, i'll try it. Thanks! 2017-10-11T07:57:15Z phoe_: this will call the Windows exit function and kill your program gracefully. 2017-10-11T07:57:24Z phoe_: right NOW. 2017-10-11T07:57:30Z phoe_: so call it after everything you want to call. 2017-10-11T07:58:50Z clintm: Oh, man, that's awesome. Thank you! 2017-10-11T07:58:56Z phoe_: clintm: <3 2017-10-11T07:58:59Z phoe_: all the workarounds 2017-10-11T07:59:15Z phoe_: make sure there's a GitHub issue for your problem. 2017-10-11T07:59:35Z phoe_: like, if one doesnot exist, then create it. 2017-10-11T07:59:55Z clintm: Yea, there is. 2017-10-11T08:01:47Z phoe_: Then give it a thumbs-up. 2017-10-11T08:08:13Z clintm: Good idea. Done. 2017-10-11T08:11:58Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-11T09:45:56Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-11T09:50:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-11T10:19:47Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-11T10:29:47Z dustinm` quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-11T10:33:45Z dustinm` joined #ccl 2017-10-11T11:02:18Z xrme quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 2017-10-11T11:03:27Z billstclair quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-11T11:05:23Z billstclair joined #ccl 2017-10-11T12:59:58Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-11T13:03:58Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-10-11T13:05:15Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-11T13:09:39Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-11T13:10:02Z clintm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-11T13:21:27Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-11T13:56:45Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-11T14:17:36Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-11T14:19:09Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-11T14:19:47Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-11T15:33:24Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-11T15:49:22Z |3b| joined #ccl 2017-10-11T16:43:16Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-11T17:12:21Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-11T17:18:20Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-11T18:03:59Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-11T18:04:41Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-11T18:43:48Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-10-11T18:55:44Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-11T19:11:46Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-11T19:35:29Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-11T20:48:08Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-11T20:50:48Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-11T21:00:23Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-11T21:04:33Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-11T21:38:12Z eschatologist: So, just a thing I learned: As of Mac OS X 10.6 it should be possible to do an app's interface entirely in code, no nibs required. (I thought we addressed that much more recently, like 10.9 or something.) Thus the CCL IDE could do away with its nibs if it wanted. 2017-10-11T21:38:58Z eschatologist: An example of doing this in Swift on modern macOS, from Jeff Johnson of Lap Cat Software: https://github.com/lapcat/NiblessMenu/ 2017-10-11T21:52:30Z xrme: I think I already did that with MainMenu.nib. As you point out, there are still other nibs, though, and they are a pain to modify. In a project for a client, I ended up using a separate Xcode project with dummy .h and .m files so that I could use IB for complicated UI. 2017-10-11T21:53:02Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-11T22:51:57Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-11T23:34:34Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-11T23:45:34Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-11T23:49:52Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-12T00:20:19Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-12T00:28:44Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-12T01:29:48Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T01:30:13Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-12T01:50:41Z xrme: phoe_: By the way, I changed the ccldoc license to Apache 2.0 to match CCL itself. 2017-10-12T02:26:47Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-12T02:56:10Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-12T06:13:53Z phoe_: xrme: I see. 2017-10-12T06:14:28Z phoe_: I'll follow suit with CCL-COMPAT. 2017-10-12T10:37:54Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-12T13:13:42Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-12T13:20:59Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-12T14:10:23Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-12T16:10:41Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-12T16:10:47Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-12T16:22:49Z lonjil quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2017-10-12T16:23:07Z lonjil joined #ccl 2017-10-12T16:25:41Z _rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-12T16:27:41Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T16:42:41Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T18:26:48Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-12T18:54:38Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-12T19:00:40Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-12T19:02:25Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-12T19:03:30Z xrme quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 2017-10-12T19:36:47Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-12T20:43:10Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-10-12T21:22:34Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-12T21:27:05Z _rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T21:39:57Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-12T21:43:27Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-12T21:43:34Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-12T21:49:17Z jdz joined #ccl 2017-10-12T22:19:12Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-12T22:23:48Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-12T22:42:43Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-12T23:03:14Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-12T23:07:45Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-12T23:36:22Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-12T23:38:25Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-12T23:43:29Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T00:04:52Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-13T00:50:27Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-13T01:03:57Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-13T01:08:17Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T01:26:32Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-13T03:04:50Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-13T03:09:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-13T04:26:03Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-13T05:02:03Z itruslove quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2017-10-13T05:33:10Z itruslove joined #ccl 2017-10-13T06:37:21Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T07:06:13Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-13T07:10:25Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T07:55:51Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-13T07:56:35Z pjb: i 2017-10-13T08:24:47Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-13T08:40:19Z phoe_: pjb: interesting, tell me more 2017-10-13T08:40:47Z pjb: What about? 2017-10-13T08:41:27Z phoe_: 09:54 i 2017-10-13T08:41:43Z pjb: Ok, 'i'. It's erc, when it connects, it switches to each channel buffer in turn, so when you're trying to type something in another buffer at the same time, your text gets distributed across all the #channels… 2017-10-13T08:42:02Z phoe_: Oh. I didn't know that, I see. 2017-10-13T08:42:13Z pjb: Emacs is not too good with threads and asynchronous processing… 2017-10-13T08:43:07Z pjb: that said, most windowing systems including MacOSX may do the same, despite the responder mechanism in MacOSX; it's not always smart enough… 2017-10-13T08:55:20Z jdz: pjb: I use circe, and it does not have this problem. 2017-10-13T09:12:52Z pjb: I'll have to try it out, then. 2017-10-13T11:11:53Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-13T13:09:34Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-13T13:30:47Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-13T13:32:49Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T14:08:35Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-13T14:38:55Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T15:51:45Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-10-13T16:02:13Z sjl_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-13T16:05:40Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-13T16:08:58Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-13T16:10:09Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-13T16:13:11Z sjl_ is now known as sjl 2017-10-13T16:41:02Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T16:51:37Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-13T17:57:12Z eschatologist quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T17:57:55Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-13T18:23:51Z |3b|: pjb: you can disable that by changing erc-join-buffer i think 2017-10-13T18:24:18Z pjb: I want to join the buffers. Only in the background. 2017-10-13T18:28:22Z |3b|: right, that controls what it does with the buffer after joining 2017-10-13T18:33:48Z judas joined #ccl 2017-10-13T18:42:04Z pjb: ok 2017-10-13T18:49:29Z judas quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-13T18:49:44Z judas joined #ccl 2017-10-13T18:52:25Z judas quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-13T20:33:18Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-13T20:35:12Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-13T21:17:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-13T21:44:15Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-13T21:51:36Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-13T21:53:46Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T22:08:53Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-13T22:10:26Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-13T22:29:35Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-13T23:28:07Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-13T23:32:17Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-14T00:30:22Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-14T00:32:37Z pjb joined #ccl 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2017-10-20T17:11:02Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-20T17:28:06Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-20T18:24:14Z milanj_ joined #ccl 2017-10-20T18:27:57Z milanj quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-20T20:13:45Z emaczen: how would I create an initialized C array, i.e. type name[size] = {v1, v2, ... vsize} 2017-10-20T20:41:56Z xrme: It depends ccl:make-heap-ivector is one way that is sometimes handy when your array elements are of a simple scalar type, like (unsigned-byte 32). 2017-10-20T20:45:21Z xrme: https://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/GradientWindow has some code that uses rlet and paref. You can use rlet when you want your array to be stack-allocated. 2017-10-20T21:10:45Z emaczen: xrme: what type can I use for NSUInteger pixel[3] = {a, b, c}; ? 2017-10-20T21:10:58Z emaczen: with make-heap-ivector 2017-10-20T21:15:13Z emaczen: according to Apple, NSUInteger is typedef unsigned long 2017-10-20T21:15:40Z xrme: Yes, so on a 64-bit system, you could say (make-heap-ivector 3 '(unsigned-byte 64)) 2017-10-20T21:16:14Z emaczen: xrme: Thanks 2017-10-20T21:32:45Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-20T21:33:20Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-20T22:15:13Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-20T23:31:54Z milanj_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-20T23:33:09Z milanj_ joined #ccl 2017-10-20T23:51:18Z milanj_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-21T00:16:43Z milanj_ joined #ccl 2017-10-21T00:32:32Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-21T01:03:23Z milanj_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-21T01:35:31Z milanj_ joined #ccl 2017-10-21T01:54:38Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-21T02:53:41Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-21T03:21:16Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-21T03:28:11Z |3b|` joined #ccl 2017-10-21T03:29:28Z |3b| quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-21T03:34:56Z |3b|`` joined #ccl 2017-10-21T03:36:08Z |3b|` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-21T03:53:58Z emaczen: Is there a different way to initialize a NSBitmapImageRep other than maybe the longest method 2017-10-21T03:54:06Z emaczen: #/initWithBitmapDataPlanes:pixelsWide:pixelsHigh:bitsPerSample:samplesPerPixel:hasAlpha:isPlanar:colorSpaceName:bytesPerRow:bitsPerPixel: 2017-10-21T03:54:07Z emaczen: lo 2017-10-21T03:54:08Z emaczen: lol 2017-10-21T04:31:14Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-21T05:28:28Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-21T05:36:23Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-21T05:41:46Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-21T05:44:45Z sjl joined #ccl 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How cool is that? *happy* 2017-10-23T15:24:57Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-23T15:28:02Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-23T16:01:35Z crashtestdummy quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-23T16:21:21Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-23T16:25:21Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-23T16:39:41Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-23T16:43:43Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-23T19:23:04Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-23T19:28:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-23T19:53:10Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-23T19:59:00Z jdz joined #ccl 2017-10-23T20:24:12Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-23T20:28:47Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-23T21:07:59Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-23T21:24:54Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-23T21:29:23Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-23T21:42:26Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-23T22:25:45Z rumbler31 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2017-10-26T18:44:25Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-26T20:10:25Z emaczen` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2017-10-26T20:10:53Z emaczen joined #ccl 2017-10-26T21:02:41Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-26T21:19:28Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T21:37:26Z emaczen: how do we determine which version of cocoa is supported? 2017-10-26T21:57:19Z pjb: Good question. I have a gestalt.lisp file :-) 2017-10-26T21:57:51Z pjb: https://github.com/informatimago/patchwork/blob/dialog/gestalt.lisp 2017-10-26T21:58:16Z pjb: Perhaps not exactly what you want. Version of cocoa supported by whom? 2017-10-26T21:59:48Z pjb: Apple doesn't really support multiple versions of the Cocoa framework, so you only have: /System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Versions/A 2017-10-26T22:00:33Z pjb: It depends on /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C … 2017-10-26T22:01:24Z pjb: Perhaps you want to know the version of the system? I also have a distribution script that maps the output of uname to commerical MacOSX version names… 2017-10-26T22:01:49Z pjb: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=public/bin&h=a4772f553ca0ddd42b1e05531367e816fe36d268&hb=d2a806c8f49f8d4a0a8c1fc597bf9b4350dcd1c7&f=distribution 2017-10-26T22:02:18Z pjb: Notice how it depends on a table, and has to be updated for each new version… There's no algorithm there. 2017-10-26T22:03:05Z pjb: hostinfo | awk '/Darwin Kernel Version/{printf "%s",substr($4,1,index($4,":")-1);}' # gives you the Darwin version number from which we find the MacOSX (or iOS) version. 2017-10-26T22:03:05Z pjb: 2017-10-26T22:04:56Z pjb: Notice that the C macros defining "supported" versions of cocoa are defined in header files that are actually in Xcode.app /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ This would be rather irrelevant for Common Lisp code, wouldn't it? 2017-10-26T22:06:00Z pjb: But in any case, you'd have to use swig or other tools to process C header files, and re-implement the C preprocessor algorithms in CL to be able to obtain the equivalent in CL. This could be useful when you generate the ccl interface files for the bridge… 2017-10-26T22:06:08Z pjb: But is it what you want? 2017-10-26T22:07:01Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-26T22:45:13Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-26T23:43:36Z emaczen: pjb: I'll check it out in a bit... I got distracted with other things... 2017-10-26T23:44:12Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-26T23:46:22Z emaczen: My example is that I was looking for NSGridView which apparently started with OSX 10.12 2017-10-26T23:46:38Z emaczen: I remember rme: saying only certain parts of cocoa are implemented through the bridge 2017-10-26T23:46:51Z emaczen: I would also need to see which version I am running 2017-10-26T23:49:11Z pjb: Yes, you will often have to generate your own interface files. 2017-10-26T23:49:23Z pjb: unfortunately for this, you need ffigen4, and it cannot be compiled on later systems… 2017-10-26T23:50:21Z pjb: So what I do until I have time to rewrite ffigen4 or somebody at ccl does it, is to use cffi, which is also full of bullshit, and mostly cannot process correctly Apple header files because they use #pragma pack that change the layout of structure… 2017-10-26T23:50:48Z pjb: err, it's swig that's full of bullshit. 2017-10-26T23:50:57Z pjb: swig generates bad cffi. 2017-10-26T23:51:00Z pjb: So basically, you have to access the structure yourself by computing the addresses yourself with cffi.. 2017-10-26T23:51:38Z emaczen: pjb: Okay I see, it was recommended to me that I try NSCollectionView anyway 2017-10-26T23:52:03Z pjb: And of course, you are better off using the Core frameworks that have a C API than the Cocoa or other Objective-C frameworks that would require the Obejctive-C bridge. 2017-10-26T23:53:06Z pjb: You can test at run-time if the class is available with objc_lookUpClass(). 2017-10-26T23:53:48Z pjb: But notice that to be able to compile objc bridge stuff using a given class, you need to have it loaded at compilation time already… 2017-10-26T23:54:38Z pjb: (perhaps just having the corresponding interface file would be enough to compile in ccl? But to generate the interface, you need the framework containing that class). 2017-10-26T23:55:17Z emaczen: why won't ffigen4 work on later systems? 2017-10-26T23:55:33Z pjb: bitrot. It uses a patch of gcc and later macosx use clang. 2017-10-26T23:56:27Z pjb: and since those idiot at clang didn't release it under GPL, Apple makes its extensions without publishing them! 2017-10-26T23:56:49Z pjb: At least with gcc, apple had to publish its extensions (eg. we have apple-gcc42 in MacPorts). 2017-10-26T23:57:03Z pjb: But apple-gcc42 cannot be compiled on current systems with clang. 2017-10-26T23:57:22Z emaczen: pjb: is clang proprietary? 2017-10-26T23:57:32Z pjb: Well, anything that is not GPL is basically proprietary. 2017-10-26T23:57:57Z pjb: The clang distributed by Apple is patched and distributed in binary form only, 2017-10-26T23:58:02Z pjb: So we're fucked. 2017-10-26T23:58:07Z pjb: Thanks Clang authors! 2017-10-26T23:58:33Z pjb: What a pack of dumasses! They did it on purpose, not undersanding what RMS was telling them. 2017-10-27T00:00:24Z emaczen: are corporations like Apple slowing closing things down? 2017-10-27T00:00:46Z emaczen: I'm reading wikipedia and it says that Clang + LLVM replaces the gcc stack 2017-10-27T00:00:47Z pjb: They do it all the time. This is why they use BSD or MIT instead of GPL. 2017-10-27T00:01:04Z pjb: With BSD and MIT, they can distribute their patched binaries without providing their sources. 2017-10-27T00:09:24Z pjb: So anyways, for the deprecated/available APIs, there are two things: compilation-time and run-time. At compilation-time, this is tested with C macros. So you cannot do the same with ccl because the compilation time of ccl is different. For run-time test, you have stuff like getstalt to get the version numbers at run-time, and objc_lookUpClass() to determine the presence of the class, and class_respondsToSelector etc to determine 2017-10-27T00:09:24Z pjb: stuff at runtime. 2017-10-27T00:23:18Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-27T00:37:58Z hifitim joined #ccl 2017-10-27T00:46:27Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T00:58:25Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-27T01:12:05Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-27T01:15:48Z hifitim quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T01:25:00Z hifitim joined #ccl 2017-10-27T01:58:48Z hifitim quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-27T02:21:08Z eschatologist: You can just look at the OS version to determine what classes are available, and on more recent releases of macOS (and macOS-derived platforms) you can ask NSProcessInfo for that information. 2017-10-27T02:21:32Z eschatologist: Doing -respondsToSelector: checks is more risky and also more work. 2017-10-27T02:23:17Z eschatologist: One thing that would be great is an extension to clang that can produce bridging information that something like the CCL ObjC bridge could consume, to tell it about arbitrary classes, methods, enum values, etc. 2017-10-27T02:23:48Z eschatologist: (That's basically what Swift does, but it doesn't use an FFI, it actually embeds clang and reads C headers directly to expose their information directly at compile time.) 2017-10-27T02:28:18Z eschatologist: I would actually be surprised if CCL's bridge wouldn't just expose all classes and methods lazily, and let you just write the equivalent of [NSGridView gridViewWithNumberOfColumns:2 rows:10] or whatever. 2017-10-27T02:46:27Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-27T02:57:18Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-27T04:09:22Z pjb: eschatologist: the point is that you cannot extend clang because you don't have the sources! 2017-10-27T04:44:18Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T04:46:16Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-27T04:50:32Z brucem quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-27T04:51:22Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-27T04:51:44Z |3b|`` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-27T05:01:58Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-27T05:05:35Z brucem joined #ccl 2017-10-27T05:24:39Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-27T05:45:21Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T06:00:14Z eschatologist: You can and you do have the sources to clang. 2017-10-27T06:02:10Z eschatologist: In fact, because its developers aren't afraid of people doing things with it, it's designed to be extensible. 2017-10-27T07:33:00Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-27T08:03:29Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-27T08:41:57Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-27T08:43:42Z |3b|`` joined #ccl 2017-10-27T12:01:00Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T12:31:58Z MetaYan joined #ccl 2017-10-27T13:01:34Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-27T13:06:18Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-27T13:33:41Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-27T14:02:41Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-27T14:06:57Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T14:25:16Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-27T15:03:29Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T15:07:41Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T15:22:53Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-27T15:29:19Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-27T15:54:11Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-27T16:04:12Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T16:06:47Z jmercouris quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T16:08:21Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T16:12:16Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-27T16:28:58Z jmercouris: hey everyone, I'm trying to make a view which overrides the keydown: https://gist.github.com/959fafbbe3f032e3cd012288a51f61d2 2017-10-27T16:29:11Z jmercouris: Unfortunately as soon as I define and create this view, I get a very cryptic error 2017-10-27T16:29:15Z jmercouris: I've attached both in the gist 2017-10-27T16:29:56Z jmercouris: The problem appears just in extending the class it seems 2017-10-27T16:31:56Z xrme: "class_addIvar failed" usually comes up when you try to re-define an Objective-C class. 2017-10-27T16:33:00Z jmercouris: xrme: Right yeah, I'm not trying to redefine one though, only extend 2017-10-27T16:33:17Z jmercouris: you can see my class key-table-view extends ns:ns-table-view 2017-10-27T16:34:04Z jmercouris: The thing is, almost this exact same code appears elsewhere in the codebase and appears to work, please see: ccl/cocoa-ide/cocoa-utils.lisp 2017-10-27T16:34:21Z xrme: did you load your file more than once? 2017-10-27T16:35:08Z jmercouris: Yeah, but I restarted slime 2017-10-27T16:35:18Z jmercouris: Let me try again just to be sure I didn't messu p 2017-10-27T16:35:20Z xrme: What I am trying to say is that if you load a file with (defclass my-objc-class ...) and then load it again into the same image, you'll see that error. 2017-10-27T16:35:35Z jmercouris: That makes sense, I didn't even think of that, thank you 2017-10-27T16:37:00Z jmercouris: I just did slime-restart-inferior-lisp, and I have the same issue still, let me try it from the CCL app instead of slime 2017-10-27T16:38:18Z jmercouris: Interesting, doing it from the app did not pose a problem :| 2017-10-27T16:38:25Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T16:38:53Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-27T16:40:55Z jmercouris: xrme: thank you for your help, I still have one issue left if you do not mind 2017-10-27T16:41:14Z jmercouris: The following: https://gist.github.com/69843b12aabcb0b99d53aca241df898e still does not produce a message on key-down 2017-10-27T17:04:57Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T17:06:31Z xrme: I think you will need to implement -[KeyLabelView acceptsFirstResponder] to return YES. 2017-10-27T17:09:21Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T17:11:32Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-27T17:12:12Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-27T18:05:42Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T18:10:01Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T19:05:24Z jmercouris quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-27T19:05:39Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-27T19:05:46Z jmercouris: xrme: I'll give that a try, thank you 2017-10-27T19:06:26Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T19:10:39Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-27T19:33:43Z jmercouris: xrme: You were correct, that seems to have worked 2017-10-27T19:35:31Z jmercouris: You know though, it's really weird, sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't and I can't see what cocoa is focusing on 2017-10-27T19:35:47Z jmercouris: and the output comes from a different window rather than the listener 2017-10-27T19:38:03Z jmercouris: Just read the about of the AltConsole, interesting 2017-10-27T19:47:43Z jmercouris: Can anyone tell me what's the reccomend way of packaging ccl applications into standalone app bundles? 2017-10-27T20:07:12Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T20:10:44Z pjb: jmercouris: check for example: https://framagit.org/patchwork/patchwork/blob/master/generate-application.lisp 2017-10-27T20:11:21Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T20:11:59Z jmercouris: pjb: thank you, this is very much appreciated 2017-10-27T21:07:57Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T21:12:33Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T21:25:08Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-27T21:28:39Z xrme: jmercouris: you might also see https://github.com/Clozure/dpf if you haven't already 2017-10-27T21:38:12Z jmercouris: xrme: I saw that indeed, I just wasn't sure if I needed to make all of those plist files, etc 2017-10-27T21:48:08Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-27T22:01:20Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9) 2017-10-27T22:05:16Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-27T22:08:43Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-27T22:12:58Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-27T22:13:21Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T22:21:06Z jmercouris: Given that I have the modifier flags for an event, how can I know that cmd is pressed? 2017-10-27T22:21:43Z jmercouris: e.g. how do I use: ,#$NSCommandKeyMask? 2017-10-27T22:27:40Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-27T22:30:22Z jmercouris: Ah, Okay, I have to do bitwise comparison, I see it now 2017-10-27T22:43:17Z jmercouris: I guess the name "mask" should have given away what they meant 2017-10-27T22:44:47Z jmercouris: anyone know how to change the CCL icon? 2017-10-27T22:46:03Z jmercouris: figured it out, nvm 2017-10-27T23:02:16Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-27T23:09:28Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-27T23:14:09Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-27T23:19:23Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-27T23:23:51Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-27T23:37:40Z eschatologist has changed his CCL icon to be the MCL icon 2017-10-27T23:49:08Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-27T23:49:36Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-27T23:51:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-27T23:51:29Z jmercouris strongly dislikes the ccl icon 2017-10-27T23:52:15Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-27T23:52:33Z xrme: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/14 2017-10-27T23:58:35Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-28T00:21:09Z jmercouris: I can submit a few logo designs 2017-10-28T00:21:25Z jmercouris: The lizard is certainly an improvement, but the asymmetry of it bothers me 2017-10-28T00:22:43Z jmercouris: maybe like a mathematical tree or something, a coral is a tree like structure 2017-10-28T00:22:43Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-28T00:24:30Z jmercouris: a fractal might also be interesting 2017-10-28T00:36:17Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-28T00:40:22Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-28T01:00:35Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-28T01:17:14Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-28T01:26:35Z eschatologist: So I've updated a Linux machine to Ubuntu 17.10, has anyone been able to compile lisp-kernel/linuxx8664 from CCL master on it? 2017-10-28T01:46:17Z xrme: I haven't tried it. What's the error? 2017-10-28T02:19:33Z eschatologist: ./../platform-linuxx8664.h:31:42: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type ‘ExceptionInformation {aka struct ucontext}’ 2017-10-28T02:20:07Z eschatologist: I think the location and definition of struct ucontext changed in a source-incompatible fashion. 2017-10-28T02:20:14Z eschatologist: Exciting, no? 2017-10-28T02:26:06Z xrme: at a guess, put #include at the top of platform-linuxx8664.h 2017-10-28T02:26:51Z xrme: oh, wait, linux might not even have that. 2017-10-28T02:27:09Z xrme: I should just keep quiet until I actually try it. 2017-10-28T02:27:11Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-28T02:37:07Z eschatologist: Yeah, I tried a couple of things like that… 2017-10-28T02:37:26Z eschatologist: I figure someone who knows how the code works probably needs to be the one to look at it. :) 2017-10-28T02:42:31Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-28T02:42:56Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-28T03:26:52Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-28T03:29:17Z sjl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1) 2017-10-28T03:30:05Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-28T03:34:21Z xrme: The glibc people decided that it was bad namespace hygiene to have ucontext_t be a typedef for struct ucontext. They changed it to struct ucontext_t. 2017-10-28T03:34:25Z xrme: https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/Release/2.26#Removal_of_.27struct_ucontext.27 2017-10-28T03:42:00Z xrme: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/76 2017-10-28T04:15:35Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-28T04:17:39Z xrme: I'm so glad that the namespace isn't polluted now. 2017-10-28T04:27:23Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-28T04:32:31Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-28T05:35:43Z eschatologist: ha 2017-10-28T05:36:02Z eschatologist: can ccl just use "ucontext_t" without a struct at all 2017-10-28T05:56:18Z eschatologist: just changing the "struct ucontext" to "ucontext_t" doesn't help because some additional headers are needed to pick up other definitions, and figuring out which ones and their correct ordering is a pain in the ass 2017-10-28T08:32:46Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-28T08:44:17Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-28T08:49:34Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-28T09:23:39Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2017-10-28T09:32:26Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-28T09:37:34Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-28T10:33:37Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-28T10:38:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-28T11:34:26Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-28T11:38:59Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-28T11:42:38Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-28T12:36:42Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-28T12:37:38Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-28T14:11:29Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-28T15:08:11Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-28T15:08:31Z pjb is now known as Guest86854 2017-10-28T15:12:48Z Guest86854 is now known as pjb` 2017-10-28T15:12:59Z pjb` quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-28T15:13:36Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-10-28T15:14:56Z pjb` is now known as pjb 2017-10-28T15:37:55Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-28T16:01:45Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-10-28T16:14:54Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-28T16:38:08Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-28T16:38:14Z milanj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-28T18:19:18Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-28T18:19:52Z jmercouris: I'm trying to subclass nsapplication so that I can override the sendEvent method, can someone please tell me how to do that? 2017-10-28T18:20:14Z jmercouris: In order to avoid the x-y problem, I should state that my end goal is capturing all key-presses regardless of whether they are consumed by someone else in the first responder chain 2017-10-28T19:05:23Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-28T19:11:44Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-28T19:30:18Z jmercouris: anyone? 2017-10-28T19:46:33Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-28T20:05:01Z xrme: You have to specify the name of your NSApplication subclass in the application's Info.plist file. It's the value of the key "NSPrincipalClass". 2017-10-28T20:07:29Z xrme: There's also a think called event taps. You could search Google for that. I think you have to turn on some kind of accessibility setting for them to work, though. 2017-10-28T20:21:14Z jmercouris: xrme: I see, thank you for the information 2017-10-28T20:21:26Z jmercouris: So this will only work if I have an Info.plist file 2017-10-28T20:21:48Z jmercouris: How I've been starting may application now has just been by loading the lisp file into a repl, I guess I have to do the whole application setup process 2017-10-28T20:24:06Z pjb: jmercouris: the application instance is created in the main function of the application. You can use any class you want there. 2017-10-28T20:26:06Z xrme: If you start things up yourself, just make sure you do (#/sharedApplication my-specialized-application) and that will create the application object, initialize the NSApp variable, etc. 2017-10-28T20:29:01Z pjb: now in the case of ccl, it tries to be too helpful, and it creates the NSApplication instance in %save-application-internal. Happily, you can pass the application-class in parameters. 2017-10-28T20:29:26Z jmercouris: pjb: What is meant by the "main function" of the application? 2017-10-28T20:29:47Z pjb: jmercouris: in the case of lisp with saved executable image, it's the toplevel function you can specify. 2017-10-28T20:30:11Z jmercouris: pjb: I still don't understand your meaning 2017-10-28T20:30:32Z jmercouris: pjb: THis is my whole program: https://gist.github.com/b454bbf4698a2bfe0aa7b067d979010c 2017-10-28T20:30:36Z jmercouris: Which is the main function? 2017-10-28T20:30:41Z pjb: jmercouris: learn about ccl:save-application 2017-10-28T20:31:48Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-28T20:31:52Z jmercouris: pjb: THis? https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sTpwEyprj0wJ:https://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter4.9.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de 2017-10-28T20:32:06Z pjb: yes. 2017-10-28T20:32:37Z pjb: You have both the toplevel-function parameter, and the application-class parameter. 2017-10-28T20:33:02Z jmercouris: Interesting, I can just persist a running application 2017-10-28T20:33:06Z jmercouris: that seems incredibly convenient 2017-10-28T20:33:42Z pjb: Well, application-class specifies the lisp class that represents the application. So perhaps you can leave it alone, and just do (#/sharedApplication my-specialized-application) in the toplevel function. 2017-10-28T20:36:41Z pjb: for patchwork, I use ccl::build-application which has a :info-plist parameter (a NSDictionary), into which I store a NSPrincipalClass key specifying the name of the subclass of NSApplication. 2017-10-28T20:37:52Z jmercouris: Right yeah, the link that you gave me yesterday 2017-10-28T20:38:09Z jmercouris: I see, is there a good tutorial for all of this stuff? 2017-10-28T20:38:46Z jmercouris: is this information all here: https://ccl.clozure.com/docs/ccl.html? 2017-10-28T20:38:52Z pjb: Sometimes, I feel we should strip a lot of stuff from ccl so that we may write Cocoa applications more easily just like in Objective-C. 2017-10-28T20:38:54Z jmercouris: If so, I'll gladly read the manual from start to finish 2017-10-28T20:39:12Z pjb: Yes, all the doc is there. 2017-10-28T20:39:19Z pjb: and in the sources. 2017-10-28T20:39:54Z jmercouris: Ok, thanks for your guidance 2017-10-28T20:40:11Z jmercouris: I'll toy around with this stuff a little bit more and see if I can fully understand the build system 2017-10-28T20:40:38Z pjb: Have you tried to get the events with the application delegate? 2017-10-28T20:40:49Z pjb: If you can do without subclassing NSApplication, in general it's better. 2017-10-28T20:40:50Z jmercouris: I haven't tried to do that actually 2017-10-28T20:41:01Z jmercouris: I don't even know how to setup the application delegate 2017-10-28T20:41:18Z jmercouris: it's been like 4 years since I've done any serious objective-c, so it's been a trip down memory lane while trying to understand how to use it within ccl 2017-10-28T20:42:09Z pjb: Well, there doesn't seem to be a method in the NSApplicationDelegate protocoll… 2017-10-28T20:42:31Z mercourisj joined #ccl 2017-10-28T20:42:45Z mercourisj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-28T20:43:03Z mercourisj joined #ccl 2017-10-28T20:43:17Z pjb: All keyboard and mouse events go directly to the NSWindow object associated with the event. 2017-10-28T20:43:28Z mercourisj: Yeah, I did originally subclass NSWindow 2017-10-28T20:43:38Z mercourisj: but the issue is when a textfield is first responder, it'll consume the event and I won't get it 2017-10-28T20:44:05Z mercourisj: so you know my project is the browser right, and I want someone to still invoke a keybinding while they are focused on a text-field for example 2017-10-28T20:44:14Z mercourisj: they should still be able to C-x C-c even if they are in a text field 2017-10-28T20:44:27Z pjb: The sentence "The shared NSApplication object performs the important task of receiving events from the window server and distributing them to the proper NSResponder objects." doesn't mean the NSApp object receives messages for keyDown events, but that it will on the contrary, communicate with the window server, and generate those events. It's the NSApp object that will send those keyDown: messages to the NSResponder chain. 2017-10-28T20:45:00Z pjb: It may be easier to have your own first responder in front of the others. Or use the event logging API. 2017-10-28T20:45:47Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-28T20:46:22Z mercourisj: pjb: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsapplication/1428359-sendevent?language=objc 2017-10-28T20:46:26Z pjb: mercourisj: Check: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsevent/1535472-addglobalmonitorforeventsmatchin?language=objc 2017-10-28T20:46:30Z mercourisj: basically if you override it, you can look at em 2017-10-28T20:47:10Z mercourisj: pjb: I think this one maybe: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsevent/1534971-addlocalmonitorforevents 2017-10-28T20:47:26Z mercourisj: anywyays, I must go for now, once again thank you very much everyone 2017-10-28T20:47:50Z pjb: addLocalMonitor would allow you to do it without subclassing NSApplication. 2017-10-28T21:07:59Z mercourisj: Yeah it definitely would 2017-10-28T21:08:08Z mercourisj: I'm just not sure how to use it, as it involves passing a block 2017-10-28T21:08:26Z pjb: Right :-) 2017-10-28T21:09:53Z pjb: I would guess that we could do it with a defcallout but I don't know how they implement closures in C. Perhaps they add a parameter to the function, perhaps they generate a trampoline? 2017-10-28T21:11:25Z pjb: https://clang.llvm.org/docs/Block-ABI-Apple.html 2017-10-28T21:13:05Z mercourisj: xrme: do you know how to work with blocks in ccl? 2017-10-28T21:13:38Z pjb: So we'd have to do some CFFI and write a function to convert closures to blocks… 2017-10-28T21:14:08Z pjb: This could be integrated into CFFI. 2017-10-28T21:24:22Z mercourisj: Sounds way over my head :\ 2017-10-28T21:33:19Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-28T21:50:31Z xrme: mercourisj: CCL's FFI doesn't provide support for C blocks. That's a long-standing missing feature. https://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/906 is an old ticket for that. 2017-10-28T21:50:43Z xrme: (Has it really been 6 years?) 2017-10-28T21:59:16Z mercourisj: Wow, I dont anticipate that arriving if it's already been 6 years :D 2017-10-28T22:00:22Z xrme: Well, I filed it back then, and I am still around, so I'm still hopeful. 2017-10-28T22:00:44Z mercourisj: Lol, true you are indeed still here 2017-10-28T22:01:03Z mercourisj: I'm just saying, I won't hold my breath on releasing the application pending this support :D 2017-10-28T22:01:11Z mercourisj: I'll use a workaround for now 2017-10-28T22:02:03Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-28T22:02:47Z xrme: I don't currently have as much time to hack ccl as I did when Clozure was able to employ me full-time, but who knows what the future will bring? 2017-10-28T22:05:17Z jmercouris: So what's going on with clozure exactly? 2017-10-28T22:05:21Z jmercouris: is it still a company? 2017-10-28T22:05:21Z mercourisj quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-28T22:07:17Z xrme: Clozure is still a company, and is still doing CL consulting and other stuff. 2017-10-28T22:10:23Z jmercouris: how much work do you think it would be to integrate something like this in? 2017-10-28T22:15:02Z pjb: jmercouris: as I said, this can be done easily with cffi. You don't need an integration. 2017-10-28T22:15:35Z pjb: This can be done in a day or two. 2017-10-28T22:15:51Z pjb: I could be motivated to do it with 0.25 or 0.3 BTC… 2017-10-28T22:22:29Z jmercouris: Lol :D 2017-10-28T22:22:33Z jmercouris: If only I had any money 2017-10-28T22:48:15Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-28T23:37:54Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-29T00:10:21Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-29T00:29:21Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-29T01:56:15Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-29T04:30:54Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-29T11:26:48Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-29T11:43:56Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-29T11:45:39Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-29T13:09:08Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-29T13:26:40Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-29T13:58:08Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-29T15:21:37Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-29T17:01:05Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-29T17:04:15Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-29T18:06:50Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-29T18:47:36Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-29T19:10:32Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-29T19:16:52Z adlai joined #ccl 2017-10-29T20:08:36Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-29T22:17:35Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-29T23:10:03Z mrottenkolber quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2017-10-29T23:12:36Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-29T23:13:11Z mrottenkolber quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-29T23:19:23Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-29T23:19:50Z mrottenkolber quit (Quit: Laters) 2017-10-30T01:00:55Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-30T01:45:28Z edgar-rft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-30T02:51:36Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-30T02:58:07Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-30T03:45:56Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-10-30T04:32:28Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-30T05:55:23Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-30T05:59:57Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-30T06:46:57Z fqdzugliua joined #ccl 2017-10-30T06:47:05Z fqdzugliua quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-30T06:56:31Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-30T07:00:53Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-30T07:24:26Z apbultlqwc joined #ccl 2017-10-30T07:24:26Z apbultlqwc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-30T07:57:13Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-30T08:01:35Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-30T09:04:07Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-30T09:25:58Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-30T09:28:45Z mrottenkolber quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-30T09:40:22Z emaczen` joined #ccl 2017-10-30T09:43:47Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-30T10:38:41Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-30T13:18:54Z mrottenkolber_ joined #ccl 2017-10-30T13:19:56Z mrottenkolber_ quit (Client Quit) 2017-10-30T13:29:18Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-30T13:40:54Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-30T14:43:47Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-30T15:02:08Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-10-30T15:06:46Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-30T16:33:06Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-30T16:33:25Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-30T16:49:48Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-30T17:01:13Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-30T17:03:37Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-30T17:03:51Z jmercouris: How would I get this property in CCL? https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsview/1483662-focusview?language=objc 2017-10-30T17:08:43Z jmercouris quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-30T17:09:32Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-30T17:09:54Z pjb: jmercouris: [NSView focusView] 2017-10-30T17:10:12Z jmercouris: Right, in objective-c, but how do I write that in CCL? 2017-10-30T17:10:14Z pjb: jmercouris: '[NSView focusView] --> (objc:send ns:ns-view 'focus-view) 2017-10-30T17:10:20Z jmercouris: ah okay, gotcha 2017-10-30T17:10:22Z pjb: Why don't you use com.informatimago.objcl? 2017-10-30T17:10:44Z jmercouris: pjb: what are you talking about? what is com.informatimgo.objcl? 2017-10-30T17:11:15Z emaczen`: pjb: Send him your hangman game code 2017-10-30T17:11:18Z pjb: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/objcl$20comp.lang.lisp/comp.lang.lisp/AkU0JCnGGAA/bHGf3_NrlvcJ 2017-10-30T17:11:41Z pjb: http://www.cliki.net/com.informatimago.hangman 2017-10-30T17:12:31Z jmercouris: hmm, that is pretty useful 2017-10-30T17:12:33Z jmercouris: thank you 2017-10-30T17:15:25Z pjb: Normally, things like (objcl:objc-string "Bad guess!") should be written @"Bad guess!" but there are some unresolved difficulties to save Objective-C strings in lisp images, so I make the conversion with objcl:objc-string at run-time. (@"Bad guess!" would like to produce the Objective-C constant string at read-time). 2017-10-30T17:16:27Z pjb: I have a solution to save Objective-C objects in the lisp image, but it's just much simplier to do things at run-time… 2017-10-30T17:16:58Z pjb: cf. https://framagit.org/patchwork/mclgui/blob/master/wrapper.lisp 2017-10-30T17:17:30Z pjb: The trick is to resolve circular Objective-C structures ;-) 2017-10-30T17:19:15Z jmercouris: Yeah, I'm not worrying about that stuff 2017-10-30T17:19:21Z jmercouris: I'll instantiate everything at start time 2017-10-30T17:19:28Z jmercouris: Also I'm starting to understand the kernel image/concept 2017-10-30T17:19:36Z jmercouris: it makes a lot of sense actually, it's a brilliant idea 2017-10-30T17:30:53Z pjb: Yes, but the implementation must know how to serialize/deserialize all the objects in memory; this is no problem for lisp objects, but for foreign objects it can only make all the foreign pointer dead pointers. Also, all "conneted" objects are disconnected: file streams, sockets, etc. Some implementation can re-open the files when they haven't moved, but it's dangerous anyways. My wrapper is able to either archive NSObjects, or 2017-10-30T17:30:53Z pjb: save in the lisp object the properties needed to recreate the Objective-C object on the other side. But it's complex, so one may prefer to just create Objective-C stuff at launch time. Then you need to avoid iniitalizations in defvar/defparameter, and other toplevel forms creating foreign objects. 2017-10-30T17:31:22Z jmercouris: Yeah, I already do that, so I am okay 2017-10-30T17:31:29Z jmercouris: My whole system can be loaded entirely without side-effects 2017-10-30T17:31:54Z jmercouris: I rely on no state from objective-c and try to leave as much as possible in lisp 2017-10-30T17:33:44Z emaczen`: how exactly do you kill a process? I keep evaluating #'ccl:process-kill but when I call ccl:all-processes, the process is still in the list 2017-10-30T17:35:47Z pjb: (bt:destroy-thread thread) 2017-10-30T17:36:06Z emaczen`: with ccl? 2017-10-30T17:36:10Z pjb: Yes. 2017-10-30T17:36:18Z pjb: If there's a portability library, I use it. 2017-10-30T17:36:23Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-30T17:36:34Z pjb: That said, it seems it calls process-kill, so that should be it. 2017-10-30T17:36:41Z pjb: Perhaps you need to call it twice? 2017-10-30T17:37:05Z pjb: (like, if the process is locked, etc). 2017-10-30T17:37:05Z emaczen`: pjb: I have 2017-10-30T17:37:19Z emaczen`: ccl:process-whostate just says "Reset" 2017-10-30T17:37:20Z pjb: How does it show in the list? 2017-10-30T17:37:50Z pjb: Also probably you shouldn't try to kill the initial process. 2017-10-30T17:38:00Z pjb: (it's the only one that's Reset here). 2017-10-30T17:39:13Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-30T17:40:41Z emaczen`: I made a process, called #'process-fun-function, now how do I kill it? 2017-10-30T17:41:31Z emaczen`: What is the usual sequence of function calls. I wonder if I got it into deadlock. 2017-10-30T17:41:50Z pjb: Well, usually you let the thread exit normally. 2017-10-30T17:42:09Z pjb: (bt:make-thread (lambda () (sleep 1) (print 'hi) (force-output) 42)) 2017-10-30T17:46:06Z emaczen`: alright, I'll get familiar with bt 2017-10-30T17:48:34Z pjb: You can even collect the result with bt:join-thread. 2017-10-30T17:49:45Z pjb: (reduce '+ (loop for i below 1000 by 100 collect (let ((i i)) (bt:make-thread (lambda () (loop for j from i below (+ i 100) sum j))))) :key 'bt:join-thread) #| --> 499500 |# 2017-10-30T17:52:01Z pjb: Now, normally ccl threads are pthreads, so on multi-core machines they should run really in parallel (at least up to the number of cores). So instant map-reduce :-) 2017-10-30T17:54:00Z sabetts: pjb: except for the overhead of creating the threads 2017-10-30T17:54:09Z pjb: of course :-) 2017-10-30T17:54:19Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-30T17:54:33Z sabetts: traditionally that's been expensive on lisp. Is that so for CCL? 2017-10-30T17:55:14Z pjb: I don't know. I wouldn't expect it to be much slower than in C. 2017-10-30T17:55:49Z pjb: There's a little more context, but if your default-bindings list is short, the overhead should not be too much. 2017-10-30T17:59:25Z sabetts: cool 2017-10-30T18:02:28Z pjb: Also, if you have short jobs, you can have a pool of worker threads, and send them messages to make them work. Then there's no thread creation overhead. 2017-10-30T18:04:54Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-30T18:10:42Z emaczen`: what does 2017-10-30T18:10:54Z emaczen`: what does "destroying the calling thread is an error" mean? 2017-10-30T18:11:33Z emaczen`: I think my resources weren't released and now emacs, and CCL are very glitchy and then I have to restart CCL from emacs 2017-10-30T18:14:21Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-30T18:22:28Z emaczen` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2017-10-30T18:22:49Z emaczen joined #ccl 2017-10-30T18:45:14Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-30T18:48:41Z jdz joined #ccl 2017-10-30T18:56:05Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-30T19:02:58Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-30T19:55:41Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-30T20:51:26Z rumbler31: emaczen: bt lightly binds ccls native calls for thread management. I've seen odd behavior for thread management before, esp what you describe, when using threads that make calls to a cffi lib. I'll see the thread still around after its been reset, or an attempt to join a thread that I *know* should no longer be running result in a deadlock 2017-10-30T21:39:01Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-30T21:41:46Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-30T21:47:55Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-30T21:52:13Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-30T22:07:22Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-30T22:12:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-30T22:17:24Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-30T22:21:27Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-10-30T22:23:12Z emaczen: rumbler: I took pjbs advice and no longer have this issue with bt 2017-10-30T22:28:56Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-30T22:43:29Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-30T22:48:05Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-30T22:58:04Z emaczen: what is the most recommended way for profiling? 2017-10-30T23:03:29Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-30T23:07:29Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-30T23:21:47Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-30T23:23:12Z hhdave quit (Quit: hhdave) 2017-10-30T23:34:17Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-30T23:40:27Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-30T23:41:48Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T00:36:21Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T00:54:41Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T01:15:09Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-31T01:19:58Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-31T01:40:55Z emaczen` joined #ccl 2017-10-31T01:44:27Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-31T03:41:32Z xrme: I've been thinking that it might be a good idea to make an interim 1.11.5 release. The 1.12 development branch still needs some debugging. 2017-10-31T03:42:57Z xrme: I'd like for (lisp-implemention-version) to return a version string like "Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.12-dev/v1.12-dev.0-35-g09fc19ba" rather than "Clozure Common Lisp Version 1.11-r16812M". I wonder if that would mess up ASDF's fasl caching scheme. 2017-10-31T03:43:32Z xrme: I probably should send mail to openmcl-devel about this. 2017-10-31T03:44:23Z xrme: And it sure is odd that the mailing list is still called openmcl-devel. 2017-10-31T03:55:22Z emaczen`: Has anyone used CCL with iprofiler and instruments? 2017-10-31T03:55:59Z emaczen`: Right now, there are no lisp symbols in the profiling output. Or is there a better way for profiling with CCL? 2017-10-31T03:57:50Z xrme: you could see if https://github.com/eugeneia/sam helps you 2017-10-31T03:58:54Z xrme: The lack of symbols is a pain. Gary Byers had a hack that made symbols available to Linux's perf tool, but that broke at some point. I don't know what to do about symbols for macOS. 2017-10-31T04:01:24Z emaczen`: xrme: what happened to shark? 2017-10-31T04:02:20Z xrme: It was dropped in favor of Instruments 2017-10-31T04:02:27Z sabetts quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T04:04:51Z emaczen`: xmre: so we are currently without profiling for the most part? 2017-10-31T04:17:43Z xrme: yes, pretty much 2017-10-31T04:22:06Z adlai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-31T04:22:37Z adlai joined #ccl 2017-10-31T04:24:26Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-31T05:12:41Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T05:17:21Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T05:20:03Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-31T05:41:22Z PAGuy joined #ccl 2017-10-31T05:41:22Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2017-10-31T05:43:47Z PAGuy quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-10-31T05:55:13Z milanj joined #ccl 2017-10-31T06:04:25Z milanj quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-10-31T06:13:55Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T06:18:07Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-31T07:20:35Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-31T08:15:22Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T08:19:21Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T09:04:45Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-31T09:18:58Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2017-10-31T09:34:52Z sixbitslacker quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-31T09:42:50Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-10-31T10:00:00Z liead joined #ccl 2017-10-31T10:01:39Z adlai quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2017-10-31T10:01:41Z kini quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-31T10:01:52Z kini joined #ccl 2017-10-31T10:03:58Z brucem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T10:08:08Z brucem joined #ccl 2017-10-31T10:16:49Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T10:21:01Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T11:17:36Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T11:21:57Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-10-31T11:40:27Z hhdave joined #ccl 2017-10-31T12:18:20Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T12:22:52Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-31T12:38:11Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-10-31T13:18:59Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T13:19:25Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-31T13:23:28Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-10-31T13:44:08Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T13:46:49Z jdz joined #ccl 2017-10-31T13:48:19Z sjl_ is now known as sjl 2017-10-31T14:19:52Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T14:24:20Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-31T14:33:08Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T14:37:01Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T14:45:06Z swflint quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-31T14:47:18Z swflint joined #ccl 2017-10-31T15:22:01Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T15:22:02Z _rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T15:24:15Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-31T15:29:51Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-31T15:59:48Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-10-31T17:35:32Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-31T17:47:09Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-10-31T19:09:40Z emaczen` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2017-10-31T19:10:02Z emaczen joined #ccl 2017-10-31T19:17:24Z emaczen: can we modify or at least access the info.plist parameters from the repl? 2017-10-31T19:47:10Z xrme: (#/infoDictionary (#/mainBundle ns:ns-bundle)) will return the Info.plist as an NSDictionary 2017-10-31T19:52:53Z eschatologist: Keep in mind that it's immutable, you can't change it from behind Cocoa's back. 2017-10-31T20:02:54Z emaczen: eschatologist: why is it an ns-mutable-dictionary than? 2017-10-31T20:12:59Z emaczen: How do I modify the info.plist file when using the TempBundle? I've tried editing the info.plist file in the Contents directory but it seems to be overwritten every time I start CCL 2017-10-31T20:17:43Z _rumbler31: emaczen: did you figure out your thread lock problem? 2017-10-31T20:18:20Z emaczen: _rumbler31: I wrote back yesterday and said that I took pjbs advice and went with bordeaux threads 2017-10-31T20:18:37Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-31T20:19:07Z _rumbler31: and switching to that solved your problem? 2017-10-31T20:19:39Z xrme: emaczen: edit ccl:cocoa-ide;Info.plist-proto 2017-10-31T20:19:55Z xrme: that's used to construct the Info.plist file that is copied into the app bundle 2017-10-31T20:20:25Z emaczen: xrme: Thanks 2017-10-31T20:20:51Z emaczen: _rumbler31: Yep, afaik. This was my first time using multiple threads 2017-10-31T20:21:14Z emaczen: _rumbler31: I was just trying to get use to ccl:make-process etc, and I couldn't destroy a thread... 2017-10-31T20:21:21Z emaczen: I used bt:destroy-thread and it just worked 2017-10-31T20:23:05Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-10-31T20:23:40Z eschatologist: Any discussion of killing/stopping/destroying a thread makes me nervous, it's almost never the right thing to do. 2017-10-31T20:24:41Z eschatologist: (Unless it's a "remove this expired reference to an already-exited thread" mechanism, or something along those lines.) 2017-10-31T20:24:45Z xrme: Usually you just want the thread to exit on its own, if you can possibly arrange that. 2017-10-31T20:33:55Z emaczen: eschatologist: Well I was just testing out my program that just creates the thread and runs indefinitely until an error gets signalled 2017-10-31T20:34:19Z emaczen: The CCL thread didn't exit on its own I guess 2017-10-31T20:40:50Z _rumbler31: well its likely(?) that the thread was sitting in the debugger 2017-10-31T20:40:54Z pjb joined #ccl 2017-10-31T20:41:49Z _rumbler31: so you wouldn't have been able to kill it(?) Caveat: I'm assuming that the debugger can be entered in any thread, with context local to that thread, and there isn't one global debugger 2017-10-31T20:42:17Z _rumbler31: although if thats true I don't know how... slime... lets you switch to *view* the debugger in a different thread 2017-10-31T20:43:37Z jmercouris joined #ccl 2017-10-31T20:51:35Z sabetts joined #ccl 2017-10-31T21:01:41Z jmercouris: Hi everyone, I'm trying to convert objective-c syntax to ccl, and yet again not working: https://gist.github.com/f11708a2849dfd7d27ec61c0a55c7043 2017-10-31T21:01:58Z jmercouris: here's the signature of the instance method: - (void)addArrangedSubview:(NSView *)view; 2017-10-31T21:02:16Z jmercouris: here's what I'm trying to do: (objc:send split-view :add-arranged-subview view) 2017-10-31T21:04:57Z pjb: Yeah. This is why I implemented Objective-CL… 2017-10-31T21:05:18Z pjb: [split-view addArrangedSubview:(compute-some-subview split-view)] 2017-10-31T21:05:46Z sjl___ joined #ccl 2017-10-31T21:07:29Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-10-31T21:10:28Z jmercouris: pjb: Yes I remember you sending me that link, I just haven't set it up 2017-10-31T21:10:38Z jmercouris: Would it really fix this issue though? 2017-10-31T21:11:01Z jmercouris: Like I don't even understand how it is not translating, as far as I am concerned, looking at the documentation, that should work 2017-10-31T21:12:12Z pjb: No, it wouldn't. 2017-10-31T21:13:00Z jmercouris: So what is the issue exactly? is this something I can fix? 2017-10-31T21:13:32Z pjb: in Objective-CL, there's an oclo-ccl.lisp file which contains a patch on ccl to avoid those warnings. 2017-10-31T21:13:43Z pjb: It will work until the change the bridge again… 2017-10-31T21:13:48Z jmercouris: pjb: I think I understand why you have this account called informatimago, informatik + mago = informatik magic! 2017-10-31T21:14:09Z pjb: Yes. :-) 2017-10-31T21:14:57Z jmercouris: Anyways, my issue is that it cannot even send the message it says "unknown message" 2017-10-31T21:15:05Z jmercouris: and just loses its mind, I don't mind the deprecatd warnings 2017-10-31T21:15:29Z pjb: The unknown message is a real bummer: you need to load the frameworks at compilation time! 2017-10-31T21:15:35Z pjb: (or read-time even). 2017-10-31T21:16:01Z jmercouris: It's part of cocoa though 2017-10-31T21:16:03Z jmercouris: it makes no sense 2017-10-31T21:16:25Z jmercouris: it literally inherits from nsview 2017-10-31T21:16:33Z jmercouris: is there something else I'm not loading properly? 2017-10-31T21:16:47Z jmercouris: I'm just trying to use an NSSplitView 2017-10-31T21:18:50Z pjb: addArrangedSubview is an iOS method, not macOS. 2017-10-31T21:18:54Z pjb: not in Cocoa. 2017-10-31T21:18:57Z pjb: It's in UIKit. 2017-10-31T21:19:03Z pjb: So you need to load the UIKit framework. 2017-10-31T21:19:17Z pjb: You may be able to load the simulator version of the UIKit framework. 2017-10-31T21:19:39Z pjb: /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/iPhoneSimulator.platform/Developer/SDKs/iPhoneSimulator.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/UIKit.framework 2017-10-31T21:21:04Z jmercouris: Damnit, how do I distinguish between Cocoa and macOS in the documentation? 2017-10-31T21:21:04Z jmercouris: I'm working on an macOS one, not iOS 2017-10-31T21:21:04Z jmercouris: Aha, I see it on the right now: Framework: Appkit 2017-10-31T21:21:19Z pjb: Yes. 2017-10-31T21:21:19Z jmercouris: SDK: macOS 10.10+, seems there is a version available for macOS 2017-10-31T21:22:04Z pjb: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uistackview/1616227-addarrangedsubview doesn't show macOS 10.10+ 2017-10-31T21:22:28Z jmercouris: Not a UIStackView, an NSSplitView 2017-10-31T21:22:52Z pjb: Ah, right: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nssplitview/1455295-addarrangedsubview 2017-10-31T21:22:54Z jmercouris: I can't send you a link becuase I opened it up in the XCode -> Help -> Developer Documentation 2017-10-31T21:23:49Z jmercouris: But yeah, that is correct that one 2017-10-31T21:23:58Z pjb: Perhaps /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework is not the same version as /System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework ? 2017-10-31T21:24:26Z pjb: Notice that in any case that would mean that you have to test for the current version of the system before using this method. 2017-10-31T21:24:52Z jmercouris: Or just not support anyone below 10.11 2017-10-31T21:25:30Z jmercouris: Damn CCL spilled its guts trying to load AppKit 2017-10-31T21:25:47Z jmercouris: https://gist.github.com/d1338713bd6cdb5b936cca82abe17022 2017-10-31T21:26:14Z jmercouris: seems I need to make the cdb file 2017-10-31T21:27:44Z xrme: No, don't confuse yourself. 2017-10-31T21:27:50Z pjb: Yes. But those inteface files are generated by ffigen4, which has bit rotten. 2017-10-31T21:28:14Z pjb: But AppKit should already be loaded by require :cocoa. 2017-10-31T21:28:16Z xrme: The cocoa interfaces contain appkit. 2017-10-31T21:28:46Z jmercouris: xrme: Then why can't I send the message? what is going on? 2017-10-31T21:29:36Z sjl___ is now known as sjl 2017-10-31T21:30:21Z xrme: addArrangedSubview: is new with 10.11. The current interfaces are built for something earlier (I don't recall what at the moment). 2017-10-31T21:30:36Z jmercouris: How can I rebuild them? 2017-10-31T21:30:42Z jmercouris: Is this a monumental task? 2017-10-31T21:30:46Z pjb: Yes. 2017-10-31T21:30:52Z xrme: It's pretty hard right now. 2017-10-31T21:31:03Z jmercouris: I cry a single tear 2017-10-31T21:31:10Z jmercouris weeps softly 2017-10-31T21:31:36Z jmercouris: Okay, maybe then there is another way to implement what I want 2017-10-31T21:31:47Z jmercouris: Do you know of a way to replace a view "in-place"? 2017-10-31T21:31:49Z pjb: You would need an old system to run an old ffigen4, and you would need to copy the new framework on it to process it. 2017-10-31T21:32:17Z jmercouris: so let's say I have a text-field on screen (text-field-a), and I want to replace it with (text-field-b), is there like a container view I can use to do that? 2017-10-31T21:32:27Z jmercouris: so I don't have to redo the constraints every time? 2017-10-31T21:32:35Z pjb: jmercouris: yes you can always replace the compilation-time send, by a run-time [superview performSelector:(@selector "addArrangedSubview:) withObject:view] 2017-10-31T21:33:07Z pjb: but not everybody has the latest top-notch system and frameworks! You need to support some older systems! 2017-10-31T21:33:36Z jmercouris: That seems like a very roundabout syntax 2017-10-31T21:33:43Z jmercouris: maybe we can make a macro that automates it 2017-10-31T21:33:57Z xrme: NSSplitView inherits from NSView, so you can use replaceSubview:with: 2017-10-31T21:34:58Z jmercouris: Oh wow, that is an extremely interesting function 2017-10-31T21:35:08Z jmercouris: That is literally exactly what I'm looking for 2017-10-31T21:35:49Z jmercouris: I may just end up making my own custom-view code 2017-10-31T21:35:57Z jmercouris: this constraints bullshit is really testing my patience 2017-10-31T21:36:13Z jmercouris: Why can't they have just implemented a layout system like literaly every other GUI out there? 2017-10-31T21:45:16Z pjb: Perhaps for patent reasons. Otherwise, on Cocoa, there's another system. 2017-10-31T21:45:55Z jmercouris: pjb: What's the other system on cocoa? 2017-10-31T21:47:31Z pjb: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/appkit/nsview/1483281-autoresizingmask 2017-10-31T21:48:30Z pjb: https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CocoaViewsGuide/WorkingWithAViewHierarchy/WorkingWithAViewHierarchy.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002978-CH4-SW12 2017-10-31T21:51:51Z jmercouris: pjb: I had totally forgotten about that, it's been such a long time 2017-10-31T21:51:59Z jmercouris: thank you for the link, I may actually go down that road 2017-10-31T21:53:23Z jmercouris: here's an interesting question, how come I can write (require "cocoa"), but I can't write (require "webkit")? 2017-10-31T21:53:32Z pjb: Or you may just recompute "manually" the layout. Unless your view is trivial, it may be easier to do that. 2017-10-31T21:54:07Z jmercouris: hmm okay, I take that back, require webkit does work, I wonder why this code is so strangely loading webkit then 2017-10-31T21:54:25Z jmercouris: pjb: Yeah, you know what my end goal is 2017-10-31T21:54:59Z jmercouris: I am of course trying to make emacs as web browser, so I might as well begin with the custom-view now, as it will only get more complex as I add the ability to split windows vertically and horizontally 2017-10-31T21:55:05Z pjb: that's because there's a cocoa "module" in ccl. 2017-10-31T21:56:03Z jmercouris: pjb: does your hangman app include an example of a custom view? 2017-10-31T21:57:09Z pjb: No. It was a simple application. 2017-10-31T21:57:27Z jmercouris: No matter, I've found an example of a custom view, in CCL even! 2017-10-31T21:57:54Z emaczen: jmercouris: I wrote a program that when you type C-x 2 and C-x 3 it splits the view horizontally and vertically 2017-10-31T21:57:59Z emaczen: I used NSSplitView 2017-10-31T21:58:19Z jmercouris: emaczen: How did you do this wizardry 2017-10-31T21:58:32Z emaczen: jmercouris: Give me a second and I'll look 2017-10-31T22:01:19Z junxit joined #ccl 2017-10-31T22:02:13Z emaczen: jmercouris: I have a tree data structure with all the views as nodes, and when you hit "C-x 2" it will remove the current view, and add two new views, and their frames are set accordingly. I "manually" computed the frames like pjb recommended 2017-10-31T22:02:24Z emaczen: and then it just redraws 2017-10-31T22:02:40Z jmercouris: Alright, so basically it's a completely custom view then :D 2017-10-31T22:02:56Z jmercouris: I think I will just about do the same 2017-10-31T22:03:13Z jmercouris: Can I ask how your tree structure works exactly? 2017-10-31T22:03:45Z emaczen: what do you mean? 2017-10-31T22:03:46Z jmercouris: C-x 2 makes two new leaves off of the current node? 2017-10-31T22:04:10Z jmercouris: What do the tree transformations look like basically 2017-10-31T22:04:29Z pjb: Your tree is the tree of NSSplitView and subviews. 2017-10-31T22:05:54Z emaczen: jmercouris: Whatever the current view is, I remove it and I create a new NSSplitView and add two child nodes 2017-10-31T22:06:33Z emaczen: I replace the old view with the new NSSplitView 2017-10-31T22:08:25Z jmercouris: Ok I see, so you don't actually keep a tree structure of the view hierarchy 2017-10-31T22:08:32Z jmercouris: You let cocoa actually handle that 2017-10-31T22:09:01Z emaczen: jmercouris: I actually do have my own tree structure 2017-10-31T22:09:30Z jmercouris: So, then the question is, how do you transform the tree? 2017-10-31T22:09:40Z jmercouris: Pretend I have a single view on screen 2017-10-31T22:09:41Z pjb: addSubview: removeSubview: 2017-10-31T22:09:48Z jmercouris: and I add a new view, what happens to the tree 2017-10-31T22:10:08Z jmercouris: pjb: I'm not talking about adding and removing the subviews :D I mean like, adding and removing branches to a tree 2017-10-31T22:10:33Z jmercouris: emaczen: What is the new "root" node of the tree? 2017-10-31T22:10:52Z jmercouris: is the root node a split-view at that point? 2017-10-31T22:11:09Z emaczen: jmercouris: (some-tree ... (current-view) ...) -> (some-tree ... (new-split-view new-left-vew new-right-view) ...) 2017-10-31T22:11:48Z jmercouris: aha okay, I finally understand, thank you 2017-10-31T22:11:49Z emaczen: jmercouris: I'll look at the root hold on 2017-10-31T22:21:19Z pjb: Well oneof the new-left-view or new-right-view would be the old current-view. 2017-10-31T22:21:43Z emaczen: pjb: I actually just replaced it 2017-10-31T22:22:22Z emaczen: http://paste.lisp.org/display/359972 -- Why is the condition not caught by my handler? 2017-10-31T22:23:14Z pjb: the bridge may catch it and convert it. 2017-10-31T22:23:21Z pjb: check the doc, I think they mention it. 2017-10-31T22:23:27Z jmercouris quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-10-31T22:25:27Z _rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-31T22:26:59Z junxit quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-10-31T22:28:12Z emaczen: pjb: You see what I am trying to do right? Are you saying that it won't work? 2017-10-31T22:28:20Z emaczen: which section of the docs? 2017-10-31T22:35:46Z pjb: Well, I can't retrieve it. 2017-10-31T22:36:25Z pjb: Perhaps it's only for NSError -> cl:condition (cf. with-ns-exceptions-as-errors). 2017-10-31T22:37:49Z emaczen: huh? 2017-10-31T22:38:57Z pjb: Sorry, I mean NS exceptions. 2017-10-31T22:41:20Z emaczen: pjb: So it isn't going to work the way I want it to? 2017-10-31T22:42:34Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-10-31T22:44:52Z pjb: yes, it seems it should. 2017-10-31T22:45:13Z pjb: Still, I would advise you to avoid it. 2017-10-31T22:45:18Z emaczen: why? 2017-10-31T22:45:25Z pjb: A C function doesn't signal CL conditions. 2017-10-31T22:45:35Z pjb: Instead it should return an error code. 2017-10-31T22:45:45Z pjb: Then you can signal a CL condition if your C function returned an error code. 2017-10-31T22:46:07Z pjb: So your call backs should handle all errors and return an error code in those cases. 2017-10-31T22:46:49Z pjb: And indeed, if you have call-ins calling call-outs calling call-ins etc, you would have several layers of conversion. 2017-10-31T22:47:58Z pjb: In particular, it depends on the code calling your call backs. It may expect the call back to always return, to be able to free resources and do other cleanup. If you skip that (with a longjmp or a cl:error), it may break it. 2017-10-31T22:48:21Z pjb: FFI is a bitch, avoid it if you can! 2017-10-31T22:52:19Z emaczen: pjb: I'll avoid it for now 2017-10-31T22:54:24Z pjb: Notice also that you wil want to have a global handler-case in each thread your run. 2017-10-31T23:22:27Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-10-31T23:26:42Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-10-31T23:27:29Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)