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So in my with-open-file macro I add :external-format :crlf. When I (read-line) on this stream, I get back the cr character at the end of the string, which is not what I expect. Is there more to making this work? 2017-08-01T21:23:56Z pjb: I don't remember if ccl can do that… 2017-08-01T21:26:00Z pjb: Yep, it can. Works for me. 2017-08-01T21:26:10Z pjb: Are you sure you only have one cr in your lines? 2017-08-01T21:28:05Z rumbler31: I used dd to dump a few bytes to disk and read it, so yes 2017-08-01T21:29:13Z rumbler31: and used encode-string-to-octets on the result of readline and see the #x0d at the end of it 2017-08-01T21:29:35Z pjb: I use: (loop :with path := "/tmp/file.txt" :for format :in '(:unix :crlf) :do (with-open-file (in path :external-format format) (handler-case (loop (print (read-line in))) (error () nil)))) 2017-08-01T21:29:35Z pjb: 2017-08-01T21:29:49Z pjb: with :unix, I see ^M at the end of my lines, with :crlf nope. 2017-08-01T21:36:59Z rumbler31: so this character stream is a usb to serial device. when I read the dd dump of output, I see the same behavior you do 2017-08-01T21:41:45Z rumbler31: when I point the reading code at the device directly, I get the cr's out 2017-08-01T21:45:54Z sjl__ joined #ccl 2017-08-01T21:48:25Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2017-08-01T21:54:02Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2017-08-01T21:58:14Z rumbler3_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-01T22:04:18Z phoe_ is now known as phoe 2017-08-01T22:25:25Z rumbler31: http://paste.lisp.org/display/352253 2017-08-01T22:26:08Z rumbler31: note that the cr nl show up when reading, so I would expect a readline call on this stream to respect the newline external-format 2017-08-01T22:35:22Z rumbler31: I've also annotated it with more explicit calls to open and close 2017-08-01T22:42:09Z logrus joined #ccl 2017-08-01T22:49:21Z rumbler31: i'm just going to explicitly purge the newline calls from the result of read. If there is any more information I can provide to those in the know about why this might not be behaving properly let me know or annotate the post. 2017-08-01T22:49:27Z rumbler31: *newline chars* 2017-08-01T23:06:35Z logrus quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2017-08-01T23:06:52Z logrus joined #ccl 2017-08-01T23:06:58Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-08-01T23:07:20Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-08-01T23:07:44Z logrus left #ccl 2017-08-01T23:46:08Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-08-02T00:28:50Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-08-02T00:38:44Z phoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-02T00:40:39Z phoe joined #ccl 2017-08-02T00:44:06Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-08-02T00:47:07Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2017-08-02T00:47:44Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-02T00:52:31Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-08-02T01:01:23Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-08-02T01:14:11Z macdavid_ 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halts due to, say, a signal being caught and landing in the debugger, that once I choose to quit to the toplevel that the file no longer exists on disk? 2017-08-04T00:53:11Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-08-04T00:56:26Z sjl__ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2017-08-04T00:57:20Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-08-04T01:54:04Z |3b|: rumbler31: " If a new output file is being written, and control leaves abnormally, the file is aborted and the file system is left, so far as possible, as if the file had never been opened. " ? 2017-08-04T02:38:03Z rumbler31: derp... is that in the spec? 2017-08-04T02:42:23Z rumbler31: wow... yes it is... lol how about that 2017-08-04T02:44:25Z rumbler31: so well... does :if-exists :supersede count as a new file? I suppose that this depends on the filesystem that the lisp is sitting on? 2017-08-04T02:50:00Z http_GK1wmSU joined #ccl 2017-08-04T02:50:09Z http_GK1wmSU left #ccl 2017-08-04T03:05:01Z pjb: rumbler31: most implementations are not very discriminating on if-exists (:supersede vs. :rename vs. :new-version vs. :rename-and-delete). For example, in general you would want :new-version, so that the old version is kept in your case, but nooo, they don't implement it! 2017-08-04T03:05:31Z pjb: emacs implements versions… file.txt.~42~ 2017-08-04T03:06:10Z rumbler31: hmm lol. so.. I need a handler-case inside my with-open-file, in order to... uh.. maybe copy the file to a new file in case we're about to exit? 2017-08-04T03:08:10Z pjb: Or don't write new files. 2017-08-04T03:08:26Z pjb: create the file, and then append to it, or modify it (:direction :io) 2017-08-04T03:09:31Z pjb: What do you want to do with a file half-written anyways? 2017-08-04T03:12:21Z rumbler31: I'm recording sensor data to a file. I could reuse an existing file but I'm really comparing sensor data between runs, so separating a run into its own file is valuable at the moment. I currently just save off the output file 2017-08-04T03:13:09Z rumbler31: I didn't implement any proper loop stop code, I just sent a signal to the process to quit, whatever ctrl c does on the command line (sigint?) 2017-08-04T03:14:08Z rumbler31: turns out some times i'd get lucky and there would be a file left, sometimes not. so I added a (listen call on standard input instead to properly break out. I just forgot I did that the last time and broke improperly, and lost an hour's worth of data 2017-08-04T03:15:05Z rumbler31: but now that I know that we can exit abnormally under non-contrived conditions, I wonder how I'm supposed to guarantee that what I've done results in the file's contents remaining in place after an abnormal exit 2017-08-04T03:15:48Z rumbler31: I now must write os signal handling code to make sure that the with-open-file form can be exited normally, right? 2017-08-04T03:15:57Z pjb: Well, one problem is that under slime it won't behave the same as in a terminal… 2017-08-04T03:16:30Z pjb: When you type C-c C-c, slime takes over, it's not your handler that will be used. 2017-08-04T03:16:48Z rumbler31: now that I properly pass control out of the form I'm less concerned. Oh, well even worse right? 2017-08-04T03:17:13Z pjb: But really, just don't create the file at the same time! 2017-08-04T03:17:18Z pjb: first create it, then append to it! 2017-08-04T03:17:30Z rumbler31: you mean, don't use with-open-file, but 2017-08-04T03:17:36Z pjb: Yes, but use it twice! 2017-08-04T03:17:43Z pjb: Then if you take care to flush your output, you should be ok. 2017-08-04T03:18:17Z pjb: Now, of course to create the file you can just use open or probe-file, no need for with-open-file specifically. 2017-08-04T03:18:41Z rumbler31: well thats just it, about flushing output. the output from the run seems to be on disk, I can use other tools to inspect the file's contents. its just after an abnormal exit, this file goes away. 2017-08-04T03:19:00Z pjb: No, it won't go away if you don't create the file! 2017-08-04T03:19:03Z pjb: read clhs! 2017-08-04T03:19:16Z rumbler31: I understand what you're saying 2017-08-04T03:20:31Z rumbler31: and I know that its not ccl specific, but doesn't it seem weird to have to guard against that? or do people find it more useful to guarantee that if I couldn't "finish" writing a file I just created then it should "never have existed at all"? 2017-08-04T03:20:52Z pjb: yes, it seems safer. 2017-08-04T03:21:07Z pjb: As I said, half-written files are bad. 2017-08-04T03:21:25Z rumbler31: hmm 2017-08-04T03:21:26Z pjb: you want good integral files, or no file at all. 2017-08-04T03:21:53Z pjb: In the case of log files, it may be different, there you want whole integral records. But then you don't create log files, you append to them. 2017-08-04T03:22:48Z rumbler31: in order to start logging for the first time, you then must open/probe-file and then append 2017-08-04T03:22:57Z pjb: Yes. 2017-08-04T03:23:38Z rumbler31: hmm 2017-08-04T03:23:46Z pjb: (progn (probe-file foo :if-does-not-exist :create :if-exists nil) (with-open-file (stream foo :if-exists :append :if-does-not-exist :error :direction :io) …)) 2017-08-04T03:26:01Z rumbler31: er 2017-08-04T03:26:15Z pjb: s/probe-file/open/ 2017-08-04T03:26:20Z rumbler31: so if the probe-file call fails I guess nothing bad happens 2017-08-04T03:26:50Z rumbler31: but if it succeeded, then the with-open-file form, even if it exits abnormally, the handle will simply be closed instead of the other logic 2017-08-04T03:26:50Z pjb: (open foo :if-does-not-exist :create :if-exists nil :direction :probe) 2017-08-04T03:26:57Z pjb: open with :direction :probe 2017-08-04T03:27:30Z rumbler31: so first an empty file is created 2017-08-04T03:27:36Z rumbler31: and then appended to, is that right/ 2017-08-04T03:27:45Z pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/352497 2017-08-04T03:31:34Z rumbler31: thank you 2017-08-04T03:31:44Z pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/352497#1 2017-08-04T03:33:54Z rumbler31: i see 2017-08-04T03:38:50Z pjb: Good night! 2017-08-04T03:47:02Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-04T03:47:48Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-04T03:51:58Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-08-04T04:03:56Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-08-04T04:18:45Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-04T04:34:19Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-08-04T05:31:26Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-04T05:53:53Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2017-08-04T06:50:53Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-04T07:13:28Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-04T07:19:55Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-04T08:15:36Z pjb` is now known as pjb 2017-08-04T08:24:26Z dustinm` quit (Quit: Leaving) 2017-08-04T08:28:40Z hhdave 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would sit indefinitely in [RESET] status? 2017-08-19T21:58:35Z adlai: and is it "safe" to call CCL::REMOVE-FROM-ALL-PROCESSES on it 2017-08-19T21:59:00Z adlai: (find out this, and more, in the next episode of "adlai hacks on production") 2017-08-20T02:10:26Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-08-20T02:15:03Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-08-20T02:44:46Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2017-08-20T02:55:00Z sjl joined #ccl 2017-08-20T03:58:44Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-20T03:58:55Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-20T07:06:02Z kini quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2017-08-20T07:09:17Z kini joined #ccl 2017-08-20T10:19:23Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-08-20T10:20:55Z BitPuffin|osx joined #ccl 2017-08-20T13:29:56Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-08-20T14:07:19Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-08-20T15:52:07Z ddp joined #ccl 2017-08-20T16:27:18Z BitPuffin|osx joined #ccl 2017-08-20T20:01:59Z 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joined #ccl 2017-08-30T19:12:53Z astronavt joined #ccl 2017-08-30T19:13:55Z astronavt: anyone here have a good (or not good) experience to report using Clozure CL to do Mac GUI work? considering it in order to avoid learning Swift or Objective-C 2017-08-30T19:23:58Z pjb: astronavt: it works. 2017-08-30T19:59:27Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-30T20:09:12Z mrottenkolber joined #ccl 2017-08-30T20:23:52Z astronavt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-08-30T20:53:20Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-08-30T21:04:03Z eschatologist: I would not try to use CCL to develop Mac applications *as a way to avoid learning Objective-C*. You'll still need to learn enough Objective-C to read sample code and understand the frameworks, CCL does not wrap them. 2017-08-30T21:04:37Z eschatologist: (You still need to learn enough Objective-C to understand the frameworks and sample code if you're using Swift, what would make anyone think CCL would obviate it?) 2017-08-30T21:06:38Z eschatologist: I don't think I mentioned it here… I was able to get partway through Quicklisp setup on MCL 2017-08-30T21:09:15Z eschatologist: Unfortunately qlqs-minitar doesn't decompose archive pathnames. 2017-08-30T21:09:21Z pjb: Indeed, you definitely need to know Objective-C inside out to program with Cocoa in CL. 2017-08-30T21:12:05Z eschatologist: MCL 3.4 is proving to be harder going than MCL 5.1 was too, STREAM-TYO needs a specialization on CCL::BINARY-TCP-STREAM 2017-08-30T21:21:25Z eschatologist: I'm wondering how I should approach something like that. Make a patch set for MCL 3.4, or put the patches in Quicklisp? 2017-08-30T21:31:06Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-08-30T21:34:29Z pjb: You need to support both versions? 2017-08-30T21:34:48Z pjb: I'd ask Xach about it… 2017-08-30T21:34:52Z eschatologist: I don't *need* to support any versions. :) 2017-08-30T21:36:12Z pjb: It's probably better to keep a separate patch set, since theorically it could be incompatible with other other patch sets (quicklisp should not patch the implementation, I'd say). 2017-08-30T21:36:47Z pjb: So you can make a MCL 3.4.quicklisp version. 2017-08-30T21:41:39Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-30T21:42:50Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-30T22:09:47Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-30T22:40:07Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2017-08-30T23:04:45Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-30T23:20:11Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T00:14:05Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-31T00:18:05Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-31T00:27:50Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T01:24:54Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-31T01:34:23Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T02:31:18Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-31T02:58:32Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T03:36:37Z pierpa quit (Quit: Page closed) 2017-08-31T03:55:04Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-31T04:07:17Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T04:53:05Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-31T04:58:14Z jdz joined #ccl 2017-08-31T05:04:23Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-31T05:32:32Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T06:30:07Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-31T06:43:29Z pjb` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T07:09:03Z pjb` joined #ccl 2017-08-31T07:30:18Z pjb` is now known as pjb 2017-08-31T08:06:46Z BitPuffin|osx joined #ccl 2017-08-31T09:36:06Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-08-31T11:45:38Z BitPuffin|osx joined #ccl 2017-08-31T13:16:11Z sjl_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2017-08-31T14:19:57Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2017-08-31T15:47:55Z BitPuffin|osx joined #ccl 2017-08-31T15:50:07Z astronavt joined #ccl 2017-08-31T15:50:17Z astronavt: i'm trying to get the example in https://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/CocoaBridge to work 2017-08-31T15:50:58Z astronavt: i copy the code into red.lisp, and run it with ccl64 -l red.lisp 2017-08-31T15:51:16Z astronavt: then type (show-red-window) as per the instructions there 2017-08-31T15:51:28Z astronavt: but then it just prints # (#x15E5B0)> to the console 2017-08-31T15:51:33Z astronavt: and doesnt actually show the window 2017-08-31T15:57:35Z ddp joined #ccl 2017-08-31T15:58:42Z ddp quit (Client Quit) 2017-08-31T16:13:11Z sjl_ joined #ccl 2017-08-31T16:13:19Z sjl_ is now known as sjl 2017-08-31T17:00:32Z astronavt quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2017-08-31T18:45:33Z pjb: (ccl::process-interrupt (find "Initial" (bt:all-threads) :key 'ccl::process-name :test 'equal) 'show-red-window) 2017-08-31T19:49:26Z eschatologist quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.4+deb1 - http://znc.in) 2017-08-31T19:51:11Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2017-08-31T21:12:30Z pierpa joined #ccl 2017-08-31T23:11:15Z edgar-rft quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2017-08-31T23:18:31Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2017-08-31T23:50:19Z ddp joined #ccl 2017-08-31T23:54:32Z ddp quit (Client Quit) 2017-08-31T23:54:43Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)