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ZZZzzz…) 2016-06-25T02:13:03Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2016-06-25T03:05:21Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-06-25T03:32:03Z emaczen: How do we change the menubar when we run programs from the REPL? 2016-06-25T03:45:03Z eschatologist quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-06-25T04:13:34Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2016-06-25T04:23:13Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2016-06-25T06:31:25Z Intensity quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-06-25T06:36:33Z Intensity joined #ccl 2016-06-25T06:54:33Z logrus quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-06-25T07:13:26Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-06-25T07:22:13Z schjetne joined #ccl 2016-06-25T07:31:48Z eschatologist quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-06-25T07:33:30Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2016-06-25T08:06:51Z schjetne quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-06-25T11:56:10Z rme joined #ccl 2016-06-25T12:07:00Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 183 seconds) 2016-06-25T12:07:54Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-06-25T13:00:59Z ekinmur joined #ccl 2016-06-25T13:13:15Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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Thanks 2016-06-25T19:42:49Z jackdaniel: it's 90 lines of code and I'm sure you'll be able to strip it to 10 2016-06-25T19:43:04Z jackdaniel: so not much to learn :-) sure thing, good luck 2016-06-25T19:43:11Z pierpa: ;) 2016-06-25T19:43:13Z rme: pierpa: Give me a second, and I'll show you an example function. 2016-06-25T19:43:25Z jackdaniel: (defcfun ("gettimeofday" %gettimeofday) syscall-result 2016-06-25T19:43:25Z jackdaniel: (tp :pointer) 2016-06-25T19:43:25Z jackdaniel: (tzp null-pointer)) 2016-06-25T19:43:28Z jackdaniel: voila 2016-06-25T19:43:32Z jackdaniel: 3 liens :p 2016-06-25T19:44:07Z pierpa: let me try... :) 2016-06-25T19:44:59Z pierpa: ? > Error: Car of ("gettimeofday" %GETTIMEOFDAY) is not a function name or lambda-expression. 2016-06-25T19:44:59Z pierpa: > While executing: CCL::CHEAP-EVAL-IN-ENVIRONMENT, in process listener(1). 2016-06-25T19:44:59Z pierpa: 2016-06-25T19:45:06Z pierpa: it will take time :D 2016-06-25T19:45:14Z jackdaniel: you need cffi loaded 2016-06-25T19:45:17Z jackdaniel: and it's in the cffi package 2016-06-25T19:45:23Z pierpa: ach 2016-06-25T19:45:25Z pierpa: :) 2016-06-25T19:45:37Z jackdaniel: so you need either use it, or import symbols or use package qualifier for defcfun 2016-06-25T19:46:34Z jackdaniel: just check out the examples/gettimeofday.lisp , it should work 2016-06-25T19:47:16Z jackdaniel: I'm off to bed, good night :p 2016-06-25T19:49:33Z rme: pierpa: http://paste.lisp.org/display/319211 2016-06-25T19:51:12Z rme: I think I got it right, but that should show how to use the FFI for this simple case. 2016-06-25T19:51:23Z pierpa: this is the native FFI? 2016-06-25T19:51:45Z rme: Yes, that's the native FFI. 2016-06-25T19:51:53Z pierpa: k 2016-06-25T19:56:55Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2016-06-25T22:11:04Z emaczen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-06-25T22:36:56Z rumbler3_ joined #ccl 2016-06-25T22:39:42Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-06-25T23:02:19Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 185 seconds) 2016-06-25T23:04:49Z rme quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-06-25T23:53:25Z emaczen joined #ccl 2016-06-25T23:55:57Z emaczen quit (Changing host) 2016-06-25T23:55:57Z emaczen joined #ccl 2016-06-26T01:16:14Z eschatologist quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2016-06-28T18:47:28Z ekinmur joined #ccl 2016-06-28T18:48:07Z rumbler3_: the libs are placed in /opt/local/lib but this don't seem to be picked up by cffi unless dyld_library_path is set or the path is added to the cffi:*foreign-library-directories* list, and i'm finding that setting the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH is proving to be problematic according to the macports folks, so i'm wondering if anyone else has experienced such, and if so, if setting the cffi variable explicitly has been enough, or if something else is done 2016-06-28T18:48:07Z rumbler3_: instead 2016-06-28T18:49:29Z phf: rumbler3_: my advise is to utilize ~/.ccl-init.lisp to the fullest. i have (require :cffi) (push #p... cffi:*foreign...) ... in mine 2016-06-28T18:50:25Z phf: only thing is that it triggers cffi load on lisp init 2016-06-28T18:51:21Z phf: but if you have a lot of those cases, or just find the initial load annoying, do cffi load before the (require :cocoa-application) so that'll give you a clozue cl64 or whatever with cffi in it 2016-06-28T18:51:34Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2016-06-28T18:51:41Z phf: likewise with your normal core image 2016-06-28T18:53:02Z phf: in my case there was mental friction before i started putting frequently used code into core image, but once you get through that friction and start building custom images for your lisps, you get a much better experience overall. can even build an image with cffi pre-massaged 2016-06-28T18:55:24Z phf: but the shortest answer is to just add (require :cffi) (push #p"/opt/local/lib/" cffi:*foreign-library-directories*) ~somewhere~ and .ccl-init.lisp is as good a place as any 2016-06-28T18:57:17Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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To change it it's necessary to replace CCL::PRINT-LISTENER-PROMPT 2016-06-29T22:14:49Z pierpa` is now known as pierpa 2016-06-29T22:16:44Z phf: pierpa: yes 2016-06-29T22:18:56Z eschatologist quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-06-29T22:20:10Z pierpa: I want to have the *package* name in prompt. It's easy to do, but I was expecting it was user-customizable... 2016-06-29T22:25:06Z pierpa: and here's the patch, for the googlers from the future https://bpaste.net/show/c883cdbe3068 :) 2016-06-29T22:29:12Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2016-06-29T23:22:52Z rme: ccl:*listener-prompt-format* can be a function 2016-06-29T23:23:54Z pierpa: hmmm 2016-06-29T23:24:00Z pierpa: thanks. let me check... 2016-06-29T23:24:58Z pierpa: no, it cannot 2016-06-29T23:25:13Z pierpa: since it's passed straight to format 2016-06-29T23:28:20Z rme: See http://ccl.clozure.com/blog/?p=82, which I just wrote. 2016-06-29T23:30:08Z rme: A format control string can be a function. See http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_format.htm#formatter 2016-06-29T23:31:25Z pierpa: indeed it works. Thank you! 2016-06-29T23:33:59Z rme: Another example: https://lists.clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2015-January/010862.html 2016-06-29T23:34:28Z rme: I'm glad it works for you. 2016-06-29T23:35:33Z pierpa: yep. I missed that post 2016-06-29T23:36:45Z rme: I wasn't criticizing you for not finding it, of course. 2016-06-29T23:37:10Z pierpa: ok. ty again 2016-06-29T23:44:50Z eschatologist: Oh hey, a CCL blog! Neat! :) 2016-06-30T00:09:28Z rme: It would be neater if it had a little more content, probably. :0 2016-06-30T01:18:40Z ekinmur joined #ccl 2016-06-30T03:13:27Z PuercoPop joined #ccl 2016-06-30T03:21:48Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-06-30T03:22:25Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2016-06-30T15:01:39Z ekinmur joined #ccl 2016-06-30T16:35:49Z hhdave quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-06-30T16:45:50Z gendl: Hi, is there a special trick to using process locks with terminate methods (i.e. finalizers)? 2016-06-30T16:46:30Z gendl: I have a lock around the body of a terminator for a certain object type, but it seems to deadlock with other pieces of code which have that lock around them 2016-06-30T16:46:51Z gendl: using ccl:with-lock-grabbed [with a normal lock from ccl:make-lock], 2016-06-30T16:47:09Z gendl: or using ccl:with-write-lock [with a lock made from ccl:make-read-write-lock]. 2016-06-30T16:47:09Z rme: Note that termination methods run in an arbitrary thread. 2016-06-30T16:47:35Z gendl: Yes, that's what I was wondering. What kind of thread are we dealing with for termination methods, 2016-06-30T16:47:55Z gendl: and isn't the idea of locks that their whole purpose is to prevent bits of code in different threads from interleaving 2016-06-30T16:48:02Z gendl: and deadlocking with each other? 2016-06-30T16:48:11Z phf: would that be whatever scheduler's "current" thread happens to be when gc kicks in? 2016-06-30T16:48:37Z rme has to leave 2016-06-30T16:49:21Z gendl: I have this lock around code which is running in a "normal" thread as well, and if one of those bodies is executing when the GC termination method kicks in, things deadlock as soon as the termination method tries to grab said lock. 2016-06-30T16:52:48Z phf: gendl: well, rme left so i can say whatever i want, it's my understanding that gc can kick in at entirely arbitrary times and run in whatever thread you happen to be in at that particular tick. so you might have cases where you're inside a lock elsewhere, get interrupted by gc, and try and grab that same lock from inside a gc interrupt 2016-06-30T16:52:55Z phf: which obviously results in deadlock 2016-06-30T16:53:25Z gendl: hmm.. so is there any conventional way to deal with that? 2016-06-30T16:53:44Z gendl: I have a termination method which is making a server call to a single-threaded (in this case Python) server, 2016-06-30T16:54:02Z gendl: where said server also is accepting requests from other normal parts of the application, 2016-06-30T16:54:05Z logrus joined #ccl 2016-06-30T16:54:18Z gendl: and those server calls have to be sequenced, i.e. can't be allowed to interleave 2016-06-30T16:55:12Z phf: a way to test this theory (and one posible solution) is to always wrap locks that are shared with finalizer in some kind of without-gcing form 2016-06-30T16:55:24Z phf: i'm not sure what would be the right method on ccl though 2016-06-30T16:55:49Z gendl: ah, wrap all of them except the one on the actual finalizer 2016-06-30T16:55:57Z phf: yeah 2016-06-30T16:56:27Z gendl: ok i'll look for a without-gc'ing form on CCL --- unless you happen to know it? 2016-06-30T16:56:40Z phf: like you have an ontology of locks in your system, and you have some locks that you know you're going to use from a finalizer, make the with-* form for that lock a lot more restrictive 2016-06-30T16:57:11Z gendl: it might actually be enough just to wrap in the without-gc'ing form -- that might obviate the whole need for locks 2016-06-30T16:57:26Z gendl: if i can just ensure that those bits of code don't get interrupted by the gc then I think I'm good. 2016-06-30T16:57:49Z phf: well, i see ccl::with-deferred-gc and ccl::without-gcing, since neither are exposed i'd spend a bit of time reading their docs/signatures/etc 2016-06-30T16:59:41Z phf: but another possible solution is to always treat finalizers as somewhat brittle (they tend to have all kinds of implementation specific caveats) and basically do a song an dance routine of (push ... *pending-finalizer-tasks*) and then have a thread that sits on pending-finalizer-tasks and executes whatever 2016-06-30T17:00:04Z logrus quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-06-30T17:00:32Z phf: basically the only task finalizer should perform is extract relevant bits from instance and submit those bits to a queue that gets processed elsewhere 2016-06-30T17:00:44Z phf: which has a nice property of determinism 2016-06-30T17:00:57Z gendl: Oh yeah, something like that had briefly crossed my mind as well... 2016-06-30T17:01:22Z gendl: but the perceived complexity of doing that put me in a bit of denial that I would need that approach 2016-06-30T17:01:27Z phf: (of course the general advice is that heavy weight resources like that should be explicitly cleaned up, but that's neither here nor there) 2016-06-30T17:02:13Z gendl: but now that you mention it, I have a feeling I'll need that approach sooner or later, if not for this immediate thing, then for some other similar things where I've been struggling similarly. 2016-06-30T17:02:21Z phf: right 2016-06-30T17:02:34Z gendl: Yeah, explicit and more deterministic cleanup sounds like the right thing in general. 2016-06-30T17:02:51Z gendl: i guess totally automatic finalizers for external resources are just a bit too good to be true 2016-06-30T17:02:52Z phf: the other thing to keep in mind and at the very least test is whether or not finalizers get run on exit, etc. 2016-06-30T17:03:16Z phf: like if you do (quit), i suspect that the memory just gets abandoned rather then cleaned up 2016-06-30T17:04:23Z phf: so if you want to rely on finalizers, you at least want to place those objects into a weak hash, and explicitly clean it up on termination 2016-06-30T17:04:33Z gendl: so that's another reason to queue things up to do explicitly, so that can be done as part of a exit-cleanup-form type thing. 2016-06-30T17:06:03Z phf: well, explicit queue-ing is orthogonal to problem, since you basically have to problems. find all instances that need cleanup, do cleanup. the queue solution is responsible for doing cleanup. but you still need to find all those instances 2016-06-30T17:06:10Z phf: *two problems 2016-06-30T17:07:02Z phf: sometimes all that complexity is justified and in any case it's not a horrible solution, whichever parts of it you decide to implement 2016-06-30T17:08:17Z phf: but if you have those objects travel down a predictable call graph, your best bet is to do (make-foo ...) (destroy-foo ...) and a corresponding (defmacro with-foo (let ((foo (make-foo))) (unwind-protect (destroy-foo foo) ,@body... 2016-06-30T17:09:18Z phf has to run too 2016-06-30T17:09:37Z gendl: phf: thanks for all the ideas! 2016-06-30T18:27:41Z eschatologist quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-06-30T18:28:04Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-06-30T18:31:17Z rumbler31 joined #ccl 2016-06-30T18:48:10Z rumbler31 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-06-30T19:16:17Z eschatologist joined #ccl 2016-06-30T20:21:54Z edgar-rft joined #ccl 2016-06-30T21:39:39Z logrus joined #ccl 2016-06-30T22:06:28Z ekinmur quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-06-30T23:01:15Z eschatol_ joined #ccl 2016-06-30T23:01:35Z eschatol_ quit (Client Quit) 2016-06-30T23:01:50Z eschatol_ joined #ccl 2016-06-30T23:03:42Z eschatologist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-06-30T23:29:18Z eschatol_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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