2017-06-15T00:00:51Z rme: I just like CL.  I like  the traditional interactive, incremental, exploratory development style that it supports.  I think CL does that better than Clojure.
2017-06-15T00:01:27Z mrottenkolber: To be honest I don’t know off hand which features if any of Clojure I would want to take with me to the next language, but I often found myself agreeing with, and even enlightened by Hickey as well.
2017-06-15T00:02:31Z rme: I don't like the advocacy I see on sites and books such as http://www.braveclojure.com: "Learn the ultimate language"?  "Clojure, the most powerful and fun programming language on the planet"?
2017-06-15T00:03:10Z mrottenkolber: Smug lisp weenie + real hype? :D
2017-06-15T00:03:16Z rme: I get that it's rhetorial hyperbole, but sheesh.
2017-06-15T00:03:37Z rme: That's not the language's fault, of course.
2017-06-15T00:05:07Z rme: Maybe I need to write the book Brave Common Lisp.
2017-06-15T00:05:16Z mrottenkolber: But isn’t that a problem we generally have in the Lisp space, hyperbole and exaggerated praise?
2017-06-15T00:06:31Z mrottenkolber: I.e. my C programmer friend calls me a “Lisp fanboy”, and he’s right, I do catch myself praising it a lot and trying to point out its superiority. And the smug lisp weenie meme exists for a reason I guess.
2017-06-15T00:09:34Z mrottenkolber: Then again, I get better at controlling my enthusiasm with time, so since Clojure is a new language, it has many users that haven’t yet learned to cool their engines?
2017-06-15T00:10:36Z rme: "Here's this cool thing I did;  CL really helped me" is enthusiasm, and I love to hear people say that kind of thing.
2017-06-15T00:14:03Z rme: Nobody likes to be told the equivalent of "here's a nickel, kid, buy yourself a real computer".  And getting started with CL could be easier.  "install emacs and slime and pick one of half a dozen CL implementations and work through M-x tutorial and ..."
2017-06-15T00:15:48Z rme: The ECLM was all about "here's this cool thing I did in CL".  That's why those meetings were so fun.
2017-06-15T00:20:20Z mrottenkolber: Agree. I find myself wanting to convert my C friend. He does these amazig things with C (like write an SSH over HTTPS proxy so he can ssh out at work), and expect him to be even more productive if he just embraced Lisp, or even dynamic languages in general. But it doesn’t work that way.
2017-06-15T00:20:34Z mrottenkolber: s/proxy/tunnel
2017-06-15T00:21:42Z rme: I used to joke that we'd soon have tcp/ip over http, and it's coming true.
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