00:02:39 gb_ [~gb@c-68-35-55-248.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 00:03:03 -!- gb_ is now known as Guest4422 00:05:53 -!- gbyers [~gb@antinomial.abq.clozure.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:21 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #ccl 00:21:20 rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has joined #ccl 00:32:49 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:35:31 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.158.229.36] has joined #ccl 00:36:49 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.113.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:02:53 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.158.229.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:37:11 -!- Guest4422 is now known as gbyers 01:43:45 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has joined #ccl 02:31:14 I'm surprised that (do-external-symbols (s nil)) doesn't raise an error in ccl. 02:49:56 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:58:16 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:10:09 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:54:26 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has joined #ccl 04:19:40 -!- fourOfTwelve [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:26:02 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #ccl 04:30:21 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:35:33 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #ccl 04:46:11 -!- photex [uid2006@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oasmwvageacsyrhm] has left #ccl 04:48:16 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:53:35 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #ccl 06:46:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.161.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:04:37 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.7.169] has joined #ccl 07:09:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.7.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:41:03 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #ccl 09:26:15 consolers [auditory@59.92.36.51] has joined #ccl 09:28:57 wgslayer [~wgslayer@f053117248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 09:30:27 i am trying to implement a concept of a run-loop similar to objc because i want to schedule lisp callbacks for later execution in a different thread. while testing, i have found out that ccl starts with two threads (listener and initial). i'd like to know how to find the 'main thread' in this process 09:38:39 wgslayer: there's ccl::*initial-process* 09:39:20 wgslayer: it's used in ccl/examples/opengl-ffi.lisp 09:39:59 ok thanks, thought since it's not externalized i was not supposed to access it 09:40:41 that's true 09:41:02 except if you must, and if you accept that it may disappear at some point 09:41:27 btw. now i see in opengl-ffi.lisp the solution: with process-interrupt i can basically achieve what i described above... 10:00:09 works stable, jdz - thanks for the hint. i can now simply fire GL statements from the repl by wrapping them within a process-interrupt expression 10:03:14 cool, have fun! 10:21:58 -!- consolers [auditory@59.92.36.51] has quit [] 11:00:32 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #ccl 11:16:17 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:51:26 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 12:40:16 -!- wgslayer [~wgslayer@f053117248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:24:17 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:36:19 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:50:57 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 14:16:28 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #ccl 14:18:03 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #ccl 14:37:17 rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has joined #ccl 14:50:27 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:41 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #ccl 14:57:06 bhyde: fyi, a lot of package functions used to accept either a single package designator or a list of them; CCL still supports that as an extension. If you look at the CLHS dictionary entry for DO-EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS et al, it still uses the term "packages" in some cases. 14:58:55 it's a wonderful world! isn't it? 15:06:16 rme: thanks for the response on Twitter. :) 15:07:07 See, I'm hip to this social networking thing! 15:08:18 rme: well, it was a lot easier than one of my yearly emails to palter or gz :) 15:10:21 Do you think it's worth the effort to make blog posts or wiki entires about my little examples, from the ECLM talk, then? I suppose it's not *that* much work, so I should probably just do it. 15:11:42 I don't know since I haven't seen it. As I said, I'm just hoping to learn from what you did for my own similar project in Dylan. I heard others say nice things about your talk though. 15:15:11 Are you looking at making an Objective-C bridge for Dylan? Or does one already exist and you're looking for examples you using Objective-C? 15:15:29 I'm slowly writing one. 15:19:20 rme: I'm curious about how to handle things like ARC  Our macros aren't as powerful, so we're a bit more limited in what we can do without a bit of compiler support (although that probably isn't so terrible to write). 15:19:38 I didn't really talk about implementation details of the Objective-C interface. The little examples demonstrate how one might use the interface. 15:20:19 I don't think there's anything to be done about ARC. As I understand it, the compiler does static analysis, and then inserts retain/release messages as it deems necessary. 15:20:35 Where by "compiler", I mean "Objective-C compiler". 15:21:16 We're stuck with manual retain/release, as far as I can see. 15:22:02 rme: Do you think that if Obj-C stayed with GC (instead of switching to ARC) there might have been some way to take advantage of that? 15:22:33 rme: ahh, okay. Wonder if that's available as an LLVM pass. (for when our LLVM backend works) or if they handle that inside clang. 15:23:31 rme: You don't use BridgeSupport do you? 15:26:48 I don't know too much about how ARC is implemented. I'd expect it to be in clang; once things are in the LLVM IR, I'd think that too much information would be lost (e.g., methods named "init..." return objects with a retain count of 1, etc.). 15:27:03 Instead of BridgeSupport, we use our ffigen tool. 15:28:57 It would make some sense to use the BridgeSupport files, but since all the other platforms need ffigen anyway, we just use it on the Mac also. 15:35:25 *nod* 15:36:03 do you have any useful tricks for dealing with _fpret vs _stret vs normal? (and that differing based on architecture) 15:37:36 rme: What I'm trying to do is to restructure our ffigen tool so that it can do any of 1) read headers like now, 2) read BridgeSUpport stuff, 3) read gobject-introspection data  but I don't have that working yet (low priority). 15:39:03 I got sidetracked for a couple of months by having contract work  so everything has gone slowly. 15:42:34 wgslayer [~wgslayer@dslb-084-058-026-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ccl 15:51:59 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:46 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #ccl 16:05:00 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:44 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #ccl 16:10:43 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:45 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:14:01 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #ccl 16:15:19 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #ccl 16:20:26 brucem: The stret business is just a pain you have to deal with. We make these little things called objc dispatch functions which use type information about the method to decide what version of objc_msgSend to call, and also allocate gcable records for NSRects and the like so that the user doesn't have to provide storage for the return value. 17:07:37 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 17:21:09 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29:44 -!- wgslayer [~wgslayer@dslb-084-058-026-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:55:44 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 18:40:01 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:42 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #ccl 18:40:43 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #ccl 19:23:21 jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has joined #ccl 19:24:34 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:29:05 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35:10 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 19:36:44 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #ccl 20:56:05 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 20:57:43 alms_ [~alms_@209-6-130-32.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ccl 21:45:06 RocksHound [~rtc@108-232-158-49.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ccl 21:47:22 -!- jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:02 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #ccl 22:00:08 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:24 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 22:07:37 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #ccl 22:17:00 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 22:36:22 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:59 -!- rme [rme@1669482.220E3728.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 22:40:59 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:16:30 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 23:18:54 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:36:23 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 23:37:49 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 23:39:14 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #ccl 23:42:29 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:52:56 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 23:54:23 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 23:55:31 rme [~rme@50.43.134.220] has joined #ccl 23:55:53 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #ccl