00:01:41 ccl on raspbian on qemu-arm: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/raspberrypi/ccl-sur-qemu.html 00:15:36 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 00:21:21 rme [~rme@50.43.164.56] has joined #ccl 02:08:15 -!- alms_ [~alms_@209-6-130-32.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: alms_] 02:09:07 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.164.56] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:33:02 -!- ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:50:30 bfulgham_ [~brent@cpe-76-173-170-144.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #ccl 02:50:45 ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #ccl 02:50:45 -!- wolfe.freenode.net has set mode +o ChanServ 04:51:39 -!- bfulgham_ [~brent@cpe-76-173-170-144.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: bfulgham_] 04:54:20 bfulgham_ [~brent@cpe-76-173-170-144.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #ccl 05:15:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@91-150-119-244.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:30 rme [~rme@50.43.164.56] has joined #ccl 06:27:26 -!- rme [rme@BB760301.26A3C078.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:27:26 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.164.56] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:51:12 pjb: cool. Downloading the wheezy image now 09:06:35 On my i7 I get about the same bogomips than on the real Raspberry Pi. Compiling lisp code is slower :-) But loading fasl is fast enough. 09:09:22 -!- ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- bfulgham_ [~brent@cpe-76-173-170-144.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:17:01 16WAAZ7PS [~brent@cpe-76-173-170-144.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #ccl 09:27:10 ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #ccl 09:27:10 -!- wolfe.freenode.net has set mode +o ChanServ 09:40:18 jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has joined #ccl 09:44:22 -!- asedeno_work [~asedeno@74.125.59.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:58:14 asedeno_work [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has joined #ccl 10:35:53 Well, I've got Debian running on the Arm emulator (inside my Debian VM on my iMac), but I don't knoe how to configure its network. The French says something about having a tun interface on the host 10:36:12 pjb: clues? 10:40:06 Ah, on MacOSX I don't know exactly. There are also other options than a tun interface. 10:40:21 It's much easier to configure the network of a VM on Linux 10:40:33 Well, the VM should get from my Debian to the outside world. I need to get from the Arm to the Debian 10:40:59 Qemu is running in Debian. Debian is running in VMWare on my Mac 10:41:36 So I think I need to configure a TUN interface in my Debian host (host of Qemu) 10:42:15 On the qemu side: http://wiki.qemu.org/Documentation/Networking 10:42:53 Ah, if you're inside a Debian VM, yes, you just need to load a tun/tap kernel module. 10:44:03 http://toast.djw.org.uk/qemu.html 10:46:20 You can also run qemu directly on MacOSX http://mikelev.in/2010/07/how-to-use-qemu-on-mac-os-x/ but since we need qemu-linaro, I'd guess a merge would be in order. 10:46:53 Yes. I've got Qemu on my Mac, but I wasn't able to get it to work before. With the new disk & kernel images, though, maybe it would 10:47:18 qemu-linaro is a (temporary) fork improving arm support. 10:47:35 Which is what I just installed in my Debian 10:47:55 And it works, though connecting via VNC is a bit wierd 10:49:12 Yes, and stacking emulators slows things. I hope you have a kvm qemu at least. 10:53:22 Parsing is funny :-) "Stacking emulators slows things." vs. "Stacking emulators slow things." 11:02:05 The qemu Arm seems reasonably fast, though I haven't done anything but a little shell typing 11:02:16 Don't need the GUI there 11:02:29 I'm trying to get "-net nic -net user" to work 11:30:45 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 12:05:25 -!- asedeno_work [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:05:49 asedeno_work [~asedeno@74.125.59.113] has joined #ccl 12:29:58 jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has joined #ccl 12:35:21 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #ccl 12:35:48 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:54 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #ccl 12:37:18 -!- pjb is now known as Guest74472 12:40:38 -!- Guest74472 is now known as pjb`` 12:40:46 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 12:45:38 duh, user networking just required a real IP for the nameserver in /etc/resolv.conf 12:45:45 downloading CCL 12:51:01 Yes, if you want to connect to the "real" internet, you need real IPs :-) 12:53:59 Well, Qemu is supposed to pass through the nameserver 12:54:33 Anyway. CCL runs. 12:55:04 I'll have to start Qemu with port forwarding to get to any servers inside the guest, but that's OK 12:56:13 Next time I'm up at the crack of dawn, I'll see if qemu-linaro will compile on my Mac 12:56:37 billstclair: now we need to write a nice environment for beginniners, with easy graphics, nice IDE (I'd like something like Oberon or Genera), etc. 12:57:08 billstclair: an alternative is to mount a virtual disk, but it's more painful. 12:57:09 Well, CCL has an IDE, but in Cocoa 12:57:13 Yes. 12:57:20 And Hemlock is not good enough IMO. 12:57:26 I use Slime 12:57:57 FOr an embedded Arm, it's perfect 12:58:08 Sure. We can pre-configure a kind of lispbox. But emacs+slime+ccl is a lot to learn, and there are a lot of technicalities that should be avoided for a pedagogical environment. 12:58:24 For professionnal work of course we don't want anything else. 12:58:30 Yes. Emacs is a lot to learn for today's kids. Sigh... 12:58:38 Ie. if we are writing robots or other embedded applications. 12:58:57 Well, this environment I'm imagining would have AN emacs of course. 12:59:07 But one simplier to hack on. 12:59:27 And with easier integration of graphics. 13:01:58 emacs works nicely in my Arm VM 13:02:07 breakfast time 13:02:16 and real work 13:02:35 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:03:46 Yes, here too. 13:24:44 alms_ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #ccl 13:37:47 what'd be the best way to add a GUI to a CCL program on linux? 13:37:59 gst_ [~gst@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #ccl 13:49:00 -!- gst_ [~gst@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:57:02 -!- alms_ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:13 alms_ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #ccl 14:01:29 milanj [~milanj_@91-150-119-244.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #ccl 14:11:08 -!- alms_ [alms@clozure-FDAAE900.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Input/output error] 14:11:08 alms__ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #ccl 14:11:08 -!- alms__ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:08 -!- alms_ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:19 alms_ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #ccl 14:16:49 rme [~rme@50.43.164.56] has joined #ccl 14:16:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 14:26:02 -!- 16WAAZ7PS [~brent@cpe-76-173-170-144.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: 16WAAZ7PS] 15:52:55 clop: http://cliki.net/GUI 15:53:19 clop: I'd use Garnet or plain CLX. But other may prefer Gtk or something. 15:54:05 clop: actually, I'd finish a objc-bridge for ccl on linux and use GNUstep on linux, Cocotron on MS-Windows, and Cocoa on MacOSX. Ie. OpenStep everywhere! 16:12:25 horrifying :) 16:12:46 thanks for the pointers, i've been trying to get these gtk ones to build but i'm in dependency hell :) 17:29:10 The GTK demos were originally written for GTK-1 and were later half-heartedly rewritten for GTK-2 by someone who doesn't know much about GTK (me). I think that the clock demo works but the minesweeper demo doesn't, but that may be the other way around. 17:30:16 see also http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-gtk2/ 17:32:56 thanks -- yeah i'm trying to get cl-gtk2 working now... i vaguely remember using it before in C, but that was years ago 17:37:57 You may find it simplest to let quicklisp deal with dependency hell for you. 17:45:23 ah, yeah the lisp side of things seems fine 17:45:35 our server is just running old versions of these libraries 17:45:46 i need to bother our sysadmin to upgrade its software 17:46:08 building these gtk libraries from scratch is turning out to be a bad idea 18:05:36 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:56 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #ccl 21:06:21 alms__ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #ccl 21:07:40 -!- alms__ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:40 -!- alms_ [alms@clozure-FDAAE900.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: alms_] 21:09:45 -!- alms_ [~alms_@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:41 alms_ [~alms_@209-6-130-32.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ccl 21:48:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@91-150-119-244.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:43 So it looks like cl:step is defined as cl:progn in ccl. Is there any way to step into an expression? Perhaps from the debugger? Is there any portable stepper library? 22:13:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:53 There's no stepper, sorry. There used to be an interpreter that existed so that step would work, but it is long gone. 23:28:01 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:46:30 So, once upon a time, long before http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVQYNfckhQ, there were mcl stepper, zstep (Lieberman) and froglet. But it's all forgetten and lost in the myst of times.