04:31:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:51:56 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #ccl 06:17:24 -!- rme [rme@clozure-A97FD0E1.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:17:24 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-136-28.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 10:26:00 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.96] has joined #ccl 10:42:57 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:47:39 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #ccl 10:56:46 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ccl 12:12:10 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:20 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #ccl 13:14:02 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ccl 13:15:43 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:15:44 -!- gz__ is now known as gz 13:23:21 roffe [~roffe@adsl-149-197.romerikebb.no] has joined #ccl 13:30:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.9] 13:36:00 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ccl 13:36:45 Is clozure adding a cross-platform gui to CCL? 14:03:40 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-136-28.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 14:08:10 leo2007: hmm. you mean the cocotron stuff? afaik, that has been in the pipe for a while now. 14:29:23 that was what I was thinking about. 14:35:13 yeah, well, i guess they want the ide running on as many platforms as possible. 14:36:17 In general I think that's a really good thing. UI is the most important weakness of common lisp. 14:37:04 perhaps. hooking gtk or whatever shouldn't be particulary hard tho if you really need GUI... 14:37:28 the problem with most of the existing gui-stuff is that they reflect the C way of doing things. 14:37:34 elisp has a ui - emacs and apps like org-mode brings in tons of people. 14:37:59 they create a healthy ecosystem. 14:38:06 common lisp is unhealthy in that regard. 14:38:35 Common Lisp with C bindings are more or less as disgusting as Clojure with Java calls: they both break with good lisp design and it all gets uggly due to C/Java. 14:39:58 hypno: that's the main reason I haven't jumped to clojure. 14:40:29 i have my doubts about using common lisp as a "mainstream" language anyway. it's arguably the wrong chooice if you are just after hooking components together. 14:42:46 I think I tend to agree. And there's no chance LW or allegro being bought out by google or whatever and then released as open-source. 14:45:53 i wouldn't want that. one of the reasons i still use cl is /because/ of the commercial alternatives. i really hope they will continue on with development of LW/ACL, and i also think that neithers price is much of an issue for the right type of /commercial/ project. 14:51:06 hypno: I look around in Linux, python, ruby, perl, git, TeX etc. I think open-source with a liberal license is a way to bring the lisp community back. 14:52:23 they each certainly have created something a commercial company cannot compete with. 14:53:09 well, there are already sufficiently many free lisp implementations so i dont see the point. 14:54:03 i have my doubts about that too. most of the shit in the free world isnt much better than their commercial alternatives. 14:55:26 it is a selection process. bad ones are phased out or superseded quite quickly. 15:00:23 anyway, I am just glad CCL seems to move in the right direction. 15:00:47 we just have to agree to disagree on this i think. i want a solid foundation to stand on. i want excellent documentation (i consider API documentation around 10 times as important as source code - and the OSS movement does not make that aspect any bit better, ime). i want solid support. i want competent people with decades of experience to build my foundation. i want some liability when things fuck up (not /explicitly/ the opposite as in most OSS-licenses) 15:04:57 hypno: I think there's nothing to disagree upon. Linux has tons of companies offering commercial support, so has git, python, ruby, perl ..... 15:11:03 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.196.32] has joined #ccl 15:15:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:54:37 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 16:54:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:16 anRch [~markmilli@ip-64-7-14-173.bos.megapath.net] has joined #ccl 18:24:10 rme_ [~rme@pool-68-238-7-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 18:24:35 -!- rme [rme@clozure-A97FD0E1.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 18:24:36 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 18:26:09 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-136-28.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:26:09 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 18:49:01 -!- anRch [~markmilli@ip-64-7-14-173.bos.megapath.net] has quit [Quit: anRch] 19:30:02 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ccl 19:32:48 -!- gbyers [~gb@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:05 wwsmac [~billstcla@p-209-105-143-79.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #ccl 19:37:44 -!- wwsmac [~billstcla@p-209-105-143-79.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:26 gbyers [~gb@c-68-35-35-22.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 20:22:55 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:51 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:26:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #ccl 20:28:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:35 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #ccl 21:26:26 -!- alms_ [~alms_@146-115-42-237.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: alms_] 22:43:25 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Quit: sellout] 23:09:27 alms_ [~alms_@146-115-42-237.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ccl 23:24:19 -!- alms_ [~alms_@146-115-42-237.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: alms_] 23:41:35 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.196.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving]