00:36:18 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.203.85] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:40:46 milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.7] has joined #ccl 00:44:57 -!- phf [n=phf@c-76-124-103-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 01:16:37 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.7] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:42:55 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:20:52 bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-109-204.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #ccl 04:32:02 -!- bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-109-204.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 05:07:09 billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #ccl 05:19:09 bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-109-204.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #ccl 05:19:41 palter [n=palter@c-65-96-32-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 05:47:31 -!- palter [n=palter@c-65-96-32-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:39:16 -!- bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-109-204.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 10:39:24 milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.7] has joined #ccl 10:41:23 lispm [n=joswig@e177122057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 10:53:54 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:23 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 11:55:18 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:41 Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 12:53:34 -!- Adlai [n=Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:53:55 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 14:19:00 anRch [n=markmill@64.134.102.23] has joined #ccl 14:53:36 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.202.7] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:12:28 joswig [n=joswig@e177146083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 15:19:19 joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl 15:19:56 -!- anRch [n=markmill@64.134.102.23] has quit [] 15:20:30 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177122057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:22:58 hi 15:23:23 I'm trying out the CCL IDE and am wondering about indentation 15:25:51 when I c-enter, I'm taken to an indented next line, but the indentation isn't ideal 15:26:14 or at least, isn't idiomatic lisp style 15:27:10 e.g. (list :something {c-enter} :another-then) 15:27:22 will put :another-then not directly under :something 15:27:29 unlike emacs, say 15:27:48 is there a way to get this done or am I swimming upstream? 15:28:25 -!- joswig [n=joswig@e177146083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 15:28:37 actually, (list ....) is a bad example 15:29:35 if I go `(:something :another-thing {c-enter} :third-thing) 15:30:16 joswig [n=joswig@e177146083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 15:30:21 -!- joswig [n=joswig@e177146083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:30:30 joubert: what do you expect in that last example? 15:30:39 then I would expect :third-thing to be directly under :another-thing, but instead it hangs somewhere in mid-air 15:31:02 joubert: Interesting  for me it _is_ under :another-thing. 15:31:08 hmmm 15:31:09 ok 15:31:12 What version of CCL, and what font? 15:32:42 lispm [n=joswig@e177146083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 15:33:34 yeah, a font thing, was using Optima, but when I switch to (fixed-width) Monaco, it is correct 15:34:42 Ah yeah ... even Emacs doesn't handle proportional fonts well for indentation. 15:34:54 I keep waiting for that to be a solved problem. 15:36:20 I guess I'll just stick to Monaco for now; one other thing I need to do for my CCL IDE setup is more extensive syntax coloring 15:37:10 joubert: I think there might be something for that in the contrib dir. 15:54:47 milanj [n=milan@77.46.169.199] has joined #ccl 16:01:26 why are ccl:record-function-info and ccl:record-definition-info distinct? Is it just for modularity, in case the latter is changed? 16:05:37 palter [n=palter@c-65-96-32-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 16:14:06 also, the qlfun and nlambda macros in lib/macros.lisp are -almost- identical (nlambda won't take an atom as the arglist) 16:36:51 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:37:16 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 16:40:02 -!- palter [palter@clozure-BB1CFD88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:40:02 -!- palter [n=palter@c-65-96-32-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 16:50:12 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51:32 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 17:22:23 adlai: ccl::record-definition-info records information about functions in the compile-time environment, so that COMPILE-FILE has a notion of what functions will likely be defined at runtime (and of what arguments the function takes, etc.) Source-file information is established at load/execute time. 17:26:27 NFUNCTION is a special operator; it's like (FUNCTION (LAMBDA ...)), but provides a way of associating a "name" with the resulting function (for debugging, mostly.) QLFUN's just a macro that expands into something involving NFUNCTION but is likely more concise/readable. 17:57:16 gbyers, I mean nlambda the macro, on line 1024 of lib/macros.lisp 17:58:56 the only difference between qlfun and nlambda is `args' vs `(&rest arglist)' 17:59:40 So ? 18:00:37 it looks like a duplicate definition to me, that's all 18:01:32 I think that NLAMBDA may have existed on the lisp machine or some other implementations, and some people may have preferred it. It's not the only redundant macro in CL or CCL ... 18:03:05 ok, thanks for explaining 18:03:15 I was also wondering, what does "nx" stand for? 18:04:26 New and eXperimental, which it was in 1986 or so. 18:05:41 that's great :D 18:05:48 *Adlai* loves CCL's speedy compiler 18:17:19 does anybody here have experience interfacing CCL code with Python code? I'm working on a component of Workstax.com in CCL which needs to interface with another module of our code that is written in Python 18:17:56 (currently the Python stuff is also exposed as a REST web API, but I'd like to circumvent that for perf reasons) 18:19:16 joubert, if it's just CPython, then you might be able to FFI to it. I think I saw some work that somebody had done on that -- let me check. 18:21:54 yeah, just CPython. FFI makes sense. I should probably google for examples; was wondering if anybody here has immediate thoughts/hints/tips ;-) 18:21:58 joubert, check out http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/ 18:22:09 it seems slightly dead, though. 18:22:13 yupp. if you can go through C for python then the FFI stuff is one of the really, really shiny things in CCL. :) 18:22:26 awesome 18:28:39 hmm, browsing through that lib's SVN repo is a bit worrying -- it converts strings to floats through (read string), without binding *read-eval* ... 18:28:57 i would use the ffi4gen/interface-stuff instead of some 3d-party library. it's been the most stable interface thing for common lisp i've tryied, and i've yet to get a crash with either GLFW or libevent. :) 18:30:51 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:11 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 18:32:45 what is ffi4gen? 18:33:06 you mean ffigen? 18:33:10 ah, yeah 18:34:11 ah ok, I see where you got the 4 from: ffigen4 (http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/BuildFFIGEN) 18:35:25 *Adlai* wonders when Emacs will deal with parethesized URLs cleverly 18:37:31 :-) I use Colloquy for IRC 18:38:58 what does the ffigen do? 18:39:23 *Adlai* is clueless about FFIs 18:53:54 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 18:54:29 Adlai: the ffigen proggy is a gcc modification that outputs proper interface files from parsed C header files. it's flat out excellent. 18:55:05 hypno, what does "proper interface files" mean ? 18:55:12 *Adlai* is -really- clueless about FFI 18:55:48 interface files is some CCL specific FFI-description oh the headers. you can then load an interface and all the C functions will be available. 18:56:04 http://195.43.248.109/~hypno/httpd.lisp 18:56:08 my FFI knowledge starts and ends at using other people's CFFI bindings 18:56:11 there's an example. :) 18:56:29 I see, it just generates the CL bindings. That's great :) 18:57:42 yupp, really nice. and the ffi stuff has some "type checking" built in so it will be very anal about the types you through at the C code. also just great and prevents a lot of bad code. 18:58:22 joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl 19:11:15 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.169.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:47 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 19:35:04 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:26 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 19:39:21 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177146083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:44:24 joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl 20:09:40 would a trivial patch adding #'(setf ccl:function-name) be acceptable? 20:11:32 Sheeple defines has "messages", which are similar to generic functions, and it'd be neat if we could set their function name without going into unexported territory, ie (ccl::lfun-name # 'name) 20:11:32 s/defines // 20:12:18 Adlai` [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 20:12:45 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:06 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 20:18:36 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 20:22:52 Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 20:23:21 (Sheeple is an object system that sykopomp and I have been working on; it lives at http://common-lisp.net/project/sheeple if anybody's curious about up-and-coming libraries that (although portable) are (in my case, at least) primarily developed on CCL 20:23:23 ) 20:39:41 -!- Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:40:03 Adlai [n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #ccl 20:45:39 joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl 20:56:19 palter [n=palter@c-65-96-32-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 21:14:28 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [] 21:18:14 leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #ccl 21:28:14 joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl 21:29:45 -!- palter [palter@clozure-BB1CFD88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:29:45 -!- palter [n=palter@c-65-96-32-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:42:37 joubert_ [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl 21:43:28 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@cpc2-cmbg15-2-0-cust694.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #ccl 21:58:33 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:33 -!- joubert_ is now known as joubert 22:37:37 I'm stumped: why would a REQUIRE form work for a package, but not a :USE clause for that same package in a DEFPACKAGE form? 22:38:41 I'm stumped too, since i think that REQUIRE deals with modules and not packages ... 22:52:04 in the IDE, what's the diff between "Compile and Load Buffer" and "Execute All" (in both cases when I have a file window active) 22:59:25 gbyers: you're right; I forgot that the packages referenced in the :USE clause must have been compiled & loaded before their mention in a DEFPACKAGE form. 23:27:47 milanj [n=milan@109.93.204.115] has joined #ccl 23:28:58 -!- milanj [n=milan@109.93.204.115] has quit [Client Quit] 23:34:10 -!- Summermute [n=Summermu@c-98-204-67-114.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]"] 23:35:03 joubert_ [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl 23:50:33 -!- joubert [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:50:34 -!- joubert_ is now known as joubert 23:54:04 joubert_ [n=joubert@user-12ld81k.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ccl