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#ccl 18:22:00 Kind ccl folks. I'm running ccl on Windoze with emacs,etc. I'm looking for a "compile program to executable for dummies" style tutorial should such a beast exists. Much thanks in advance!!!! 18:22:10 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-92-209.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 18:23:06 Summermute: http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter4.7.html 18:23:32 -!- palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:23:51 (:prepend-kernel being the interesting parameter) 18:30:38 Erk, what is it with folks and "single file executables" 18:30:54 It's almost always a hack when it comes to Lisp, and no interesting program is a single file anyway 18:33:05 I worked on a team at Amazon (in operations, not related to the site) where there was a single file that was _every_ program. 18:33:59 Symlinks with various names were made to the one binary, and that one binary dispatched on the program name to perform the appropriate behavior. 18:34:06 It was horrendous. 18:34:20 busybox does that too, though in a much different context 18:34:29 I can actually forgive busybox for its use case 18:43:02 lispm [n=joswig@e177150074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 18:44:11 -!- lispm [n=joswig@e177150074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:44:32 palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 18:44:36 lispm [n=joswig@e177150074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 19:25:10 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:23 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 19:33:45 One executable file = ez distribution 19:35:06 I don't think I've *ever* downloaded a random ELF binary and directly run it. 19:35:16 Even for Windows programs, I most typically download a zip file. 19:35:59 Ignore - test 19:36:15 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has left #ccl 19:36:28 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 19:36:58 Ignore - test 19:37:25 Anyway - single executable = EZ distribution 19:37:56 I responded to that, did you not see the response? 19:39:09 14:35 < chandler> I don't think I've *ever* downloaded a random ELF binary and directly run it. 19:39:16 14:35 < chandler> Even for Windows programs, I most typically download a zip file. 19:40:32 My model for distribution(s) is: full Windows installer, full Mac installer, Linux RPM installed automagically via a graphical package manager. Anything else is from the caveman era :-) 19:41:19 Uh, then why is single file = easy distribution? 19:41:30 unless you'd write your installer in CCL, but that doesn't really seem reasonable 19:41:39 If there is a large file repository (say pictures), then offer the user an option, otherwise the user has NO options regarding file placement. 19:41:44 *gbyers* has a bad headache all of a sudden. 19:43:10 No, I understand a distribution will often include a few .so/.dll's, maybe a couple of executables, etc. - but it's all a seemless whole to the user, and they certainly should NOT be aware they are running a Lisp application in ANY manner. 19:44:18 Oh, and command line utilities should be distributed as a simple executable, perhaps with a man or info page. 19:44:51 Just like in 1980! 19:45:27 -!- gbyers [n=gb@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["dear god save me"] 19:45:57 I don't recall C64 installation conventions ;-) 19:49:20 I can't recall exactly, but maybe it was Haskell (?) that packaged its Windoze installation as an uber-conventional .msi win installation file. 19:50:29 I think it was Alice ML that even looked around for you .emacs file and set it up for you during installation. 19:50:44 The days of make; make install are numbered 19:54:40 Summermute: so, if you distribute the lisp as multiple files, how is the user aware it's a lisp program (unless they actively seek out that information)? 19:56:00 In particular, if the program is distributed as a Lisp kernel plus a core with a wrapper script to invoke it, how is this different from a binary plus a shared library? 19:57:19 Sure, I'll concede that. Sort of like distributing a JRE with a large Java package. So long as its transparent to the user who wants to run a program and not frob an installatioin. 20:02:42 I guess I'm just making the point that the early Smalltalk and Lisp environments would have been more useful to humanity if they focused more on "programs" rather than "environments" (and used less memory :-) 20:08:38 Summermute66 [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 20:25:18 palter_ [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 20:26:54 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:01 -!- palter_ [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:42:06 -!- palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:12:13 palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 22:46:57 milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.223] has joined #ccl 22:56:55 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.250.223] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:12:11 palter_ [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 23:12:11 -!- palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:12:14 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 23:18:21 bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-133-58.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #ccl 23:32:30 gbyers [n=gb@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ccl