01:20:36 -!- alms [n=alms@146-115-42-237.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 01:25:20 palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 01:26:09 alms [n=alms@146-115-42-237.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ccl 01:43:37 segv [n=mb@207-172-92-9.c3-0.129-ubr3.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ccl 02:03:17 -!- segv [n=mb@207-172-92-9.c3-0.129-ubr3.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [] 02:18:15 segv [n=mb@207-172-92-9.c3-0.129-ubr3.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #ccl 02:40:55 -!- milanj- [n=milan@212.200.194.165] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:25:10 palter_ [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 03:25:10 -!- palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:25:13 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 05:04:58 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:12:36 bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-107-187.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #ccl 05:34:37 milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.165] has joined #ccl 06:09:07 -!- milanj [n=milan@212.200.194.165] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:45:10 -!- bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-107-187.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [] 06:46:15 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #ccl 08:19:47 swilde [n=wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has joined #ccl 08:20:30 *: hi. I at the eclm I saw clozure-cl with the cocoa ide running on windows using cocotron, and asking I was told that it should work on GNU/Linux, too. But I wasn't able to find any hints on the net how to use ccl with GNUstep or Cocotron. Simply evaluating (require 'cocoa) gives me `Error: Unknown foreign type: :OBJC_OBJECT' on 32bit x86 GNU/Linux with ccl 1.3-r11936 and 1.3-r12839M 08:20:40 How can I get cocoa with ccl on GNU/Linux? 10:38:19 piso [n=peter@ip98-176-76-28.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #ccl 10:59:25 -!- jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [] 12:05:10 swilde: I don't think we've ported the OBJ-C bridge to Linux, yet, but I don't know for sure. palter would know, or maybe gbyers 12:07:51 There was a little bit of support for GNUstep a few years ago, but it hasn't been maintained. One of the GNUstep developers was on this channel a few weeks ago and was talking about trying to get that to work, but I'm not sure if he had any luck. Cocotron intends to support Linux, but I don't think that the Linux AppKit stuff is very far along yet. 12:13:57 gbyers: According to the cocotron website AppKit support on linux is indeed missing. Anyway from what Jeremy said at eclm I was under the impression that there would be at least experimental support for either GNUstep or Cocotron on GNU/Linux. 12:15:01 Maybe its simply misunderstanding on my site :( 12:30:18 Not sure. Jeremy was supposed to be back in the US last night but I haven't spoken to him. How was ECLM ? 12:39:38 gbyers: eclm was very nice (nice talks, nice people, a howl lot of fun -- at least as far as I remember, there was a nice lot of red wine, too) 12:39:41 :) 12:40:04 gbyers: anyway, don't get me wrong: Jeremy only showed cocoa on windows 12:41:14 gbyers: but I shortly asked for linux and I remember him answering that it should work... 12:44:00 Well, that was a mistake. A few years ago, the ObjC bridge supported the GNU ObjC runtime well enough to be able to do simple Foundation-level things. CCL was PPC-only in those days, and the PPC Linux version of GNUstep only worked on old PPC Linux distros, so it got hard for me to maintain. The bridge has changed, and in general the GNU runtime support hasn't kept up with those changes. 12:47:17 gbyers: oh, what a pity -- I was starting to hope for a free CL with a real cross platform (GNU/Linux,OS-X,Windows) GUI... :/ 12:51:40 We'd like to offer that, but it'd take work. I've never heard of anyone interested in funding that work, so it'll likely only get done as a low-priority background task. 12:58:20 gbyers: I understand. Unfortunately my interest is purely private/hobbyist -- the company I'm working for does Free Software but no CL, so no chance to get funding here... 13:09:56 anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx09984.woburma.wayport.net] has joined #ccl 13:43:24 milanj [n=milan@77.46.225.180] has joined #ccl 13:44:13 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ccl 14:28:31 -!- anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx09984.woburma.wayport.net] has quit [] 14:32:50 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.225.180] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:38:44 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1"] 14:40:30 rme [n=rme@pool-70-105-87-17.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 14:51:34 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ccl 14:56:40 milanj [n=milan@77.46.225.180] has joined #ccl 15:07:41 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["reboot emacs"] 15:10:03 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ccl 15:23:22 milanj- [n=milan@93.87.192.139] has joined #ccl 15:31:04 -!- milanj [n=milan@77.46.225.180] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:03:21 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #ccl 16:03:55 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has left #ccl 16:15:37 leo2007: You made a comment earlier about threads and osx for sbcl? 16:16:30 Probably 16:16:54 I switched to ccl because of threads in sbcl 16:17:49 I use sbcl on osx and the program I use there works very nicely with threads. Did you download the binary for sbcl or build it from source? 16:18:55 wgl: I built it myself 16:19:12 *gbyers* yawns 16:19:23 I didn't pass the tests and I couldn't build maxima with it. 16:19:41 So I am suspicious of its threads. 16:19:58 leo2007: have you setup your build process to actually build threading support? 16:20:40 I put the (enable :sb-thread) in the 'customize-target-features.lisp' in the build directory and it comes out fine. Did not try maxima, though. 16:20:46 yes for sure, I can see sb-thread in *features* 16:21:05 wgl: did you run run-tests.sh? 16:21:11 Interesting. What is the symptom of failure with threads? 16:21:17 -!- gbyers [n=gbyers@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #ccl 16:21:40 No, but I will do that right now. 16:21:45 Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 16:21:45 wgl: Unfortunately I couldn't remember. 16:22:31 wgl: you should see 10 failures. 16:22:55 Mind you, I have begun recently using ccl for a new project on the mac, and it is very sweet, particularly with cocoa bridge. Other environment I use requires highest performance, so went with SBCL for that. 16:23:58 wgl: floating-point performance? or otherwise? 16:24:15 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #ccl 16:24:31 All-around, but double floating performance is also important. 16:24:58 wgl: thanks for that tip. I'm developing in my laptop but my code is going to be run on linux86-64 with enough computing power. 16:25:18 How do you like ccl so far? 16:26:07 wgl: It seems nice. 16:26:30 wgl: how would you say about the performance of ccl and sbcl? 16:27:12 wgl: I need a plotting package and I'm using clnuplot which requires multithreads 16:27:29 ccl makes that possible for me. 16:27:45 I don't have direct experience comparing the two, but SBCL often surprises me with its performancd, and it does well in the shootout benchmarks that are often posted. 16:30:19 is ccl reasonably fast? 16:30:28 i.e. faster than clisp. 16:32:19 Yes, it seems to be from what I have seen. probably faster than clisp in everything but bignums (clisp seems to do very well on bignums). Again, I am not speaking from direct experience but from what I have heard and read. I know that ITA uses both CCL and SBCL. Sbcl in the execution-time critical portions, CCL where fast compile is more important. 16:35:32 wgl: it should be relatively easy to use both to compile and run the same program. 16:36:24 Well, the trick is in choosing a relevant, representative program. 16:38:08 For many applications the difference in execution time between ccl and sbcl may not matter. 16:38:22 Speaking of plotting, have you looked at the vecto stuff? 16:38:46 wgl: thanks for that. 16:38:53 wgl: where to find vecto? 16:39:43 found it 16:40:16 It is in the clbuild stuff, which I find useful. It is also available here: http://www.xach.com/lisp/vecto/ 16:40:28 -!- piso [n=peter@ip98-176-76-28.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:40:57 It is used to build neat stuff like http://www.xach.com/moviecharts/ 16:41:41 gbyers [n=gbyers@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 16:42:06 wgl: it looks very interesting. Thanks for that too. 17:20:43 lispm [n=joswig@f054052235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 20:13:27 -!- lispm [n=joswig@f054052235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:27 joswig [n=joswig@f054052235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ccl 20:20:09 -!- jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [] 20:30:15 wgl: how'd your sbcl run-tests go? 21:08:09 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #ccl 21:13:38 -!- milanj- [n=milan@93.87.192.139] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:14:17 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:53 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ccl 21:51:28 anRch [n=markmill@12.147.116.238] has joined #ccl 22:14:06 -!- Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:26:52 -!- anRch [n=markmill@12.147.116.238] has quit [] 22:55:39 malsyned [n=malsyned@24-151-107-209.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #ccl 23:11:16 -!- joswig [n=joswig@f054052235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 23:17:11 -!- malsyned [n=malsyned@24-151-107-209.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:20:49 c|mell [n=cmell@KD124213182069.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #ccl 23:55:24 -!- palter [n=palter@c-24-128-76-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []