03:28:19 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #ccl 03:49:29 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@131.111.223.202] has quit ["night"] 04:48:03 -!- mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@ds9.entity.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:48:08 mdc_ [n=mdc_mobi@ds9.entity.com] has joined #ccl 04:49:04 -!- mdc_ is now known as mdc_mobile 07:50:20 vy [n=user@88.224.112.254] has joined #ccl 10:30:27 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ccl 12:26:36 -!- jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has left #ccl 12:44:50 milanj [n=milan@93.87.166.143] has joined #ccl 13:36:20 anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx07269.sauguma.wayport.net] has joined #ccl 13:57:03 -!- mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@ds9.entity.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:57:08 mdc_ [n=mdc_mobi@ds9.entity.com] has joined #ccl 14:10:42 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["out"] 14:13:48 -!- anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx07269.sauguma.wayport.net] has quit [] 15:06:14 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.87.166.143] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:22:46 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ccl 15:42:04 -!- leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit ["reboot"] 16:09:32 leo2007 [n=leo@sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #ccl 16:10:13 a lisp file has header like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/87011 16:10:23 and it runs fine in sbcl 16:10:33 how to convert it to ccl? 16:11:24 Define modules named ARRAY-OPERATIONS, CL-UTILITIES, etc. 16:21:46 gbyers: those modules are installed and asdf loadable. how to define modules? 16:26:22 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm. SBCL integrates ASDF and REQUIRE; CCL does that in the trunk but I don't think it does in the 1.3 release and there's some question as to whether it's a good idea. You can load the systems via ASDF and PROVIDE them before REQUIREing them, or just load via ASDF and not conflat that with REQUIRE, or ... 16:27:45 bbl 16:27:49 -!- gbyers [n=gbyers@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #ccl 16:52:15 should I use ccl svn trunk? 17:51:03 milanj [n=milan@93.86.112.106] has joined #ccl 17:56:30 how to make something like (require :cl-cairo2) work in ccl? 19:21:01 -!- mdc_ [n=mdc_mobi@ds9.entity.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:23:19 mdc_mobile [n=mdc_mobi@ds9.entity.com] has joined #ccl 19:23:54 gbyers [n=gbyers@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #ccl 19:37:41 gbyers: would you recommend running the svn trunk instead of 1.3? 19:39:17 That depends on what you want; the trunk changes much more rapidly; it's more likely to have bug fixes and more likely to have new bugs. 19:47:10 does trunk provides a similar integration of asdf and require like sbcl? 19:48:49 It does at the moment, but some people think that that's a bad idea and that behavior might change. 19:51:02 ok 19:51:24 In http://paste.lisp.org/display/87011, i tried replace require with (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ...) 19:51:56 but (use-package '(:cl-cairo2 :cl-2d :cl-numlib :cl-colors :bind)) says name conflict 19:52:48 There probably is a name conflict, and that probably has nothing to do with require/asdf. 19:53:21 gbyers: but the default file works fine under sbcl 19:53:50 Which exports a different set of symbols from a different set of packages ... 19:54:09 *leo2007* has spent the whole day setting up CCL 19:55:19 Have you learned anything in the process ? 19:56:24 bits here and there 19:56:54 Do you understand what a name conflict is, in the context of USE-PACKAGE ? 19:58:38 -!- vy [n=user@88.224.112.254] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:04:06 gbyers: it means same symbols exist in the two packages involved 20:07:10 gbyers: I'm going to give up on cl-2d for now. 20:07:16 Sort of: two distinct symbols that have the same name would be visible. How does anyone know exactly what symbols are accessible in the CL-USER package in a given implementation, and how can they be sure that making CL-USER use a number of other packages won't introduce conflicts with symbols that're already visible from CL-USER ? Doing that might accidentally work in one implementation and not in another. 20:08:25 gbyers: I need an operation other than (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ... ) that would make the package available to use-package but does not import the external symbols in the current package 20:08:31 to avoid name conflicts 20:08:58 Or find the conflicting symbols and shadow them. 20:09:22 gbyers: ok let me do that and see if cl-2d works 20:09:59 My guess is that it's never worked anywhere but in SBCL. 20:10:19 gbyers: I think the author of that package use sbcl on Linux 20:16:08 gbyers: any idea how to start ccl but in a different package? I put (in-package :cl-2d) but it is still in cl-user. 20:16:21 I put it in ccl-init.lisp 20:22:13 LOAD binds *PACKAGE*, so that's hard to do. 20:23:00 i see. that works on sbcl but not on ccl 20:28:15 is MCL dead? 20:33:55 Some people still use it, but it hasn't been actively developed in a few years. 20:35:45 -!- gbyers [n=gbyers@c-68-35-15-143.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #ccl 21:18:49 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.112.106] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:20:56 bfulgham_ [n=brent@adsl-69-234-107-187.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #ccl 22:47:04 I found that in SLIME C-c C-c is significantly slower for ccl than sbcl. Is that normal? 22:56:49 That's unusual, since one place the CCL is usually significantly faster than SBCL is the compiler. 23:05:22 I can't understand that. Do you mean that the compiling is slower because the generated code is much faster? 23:07:31 The SBCL compiler is more complicated. That may make it generate faster code sometimes. I don't have enough experience with it to know. But CCL held its own on one big project I worked on. 23:10:37 thanks 23:11:53 billstclair: sbcl does not support threads on os x so I am migrating to ccl. 23:12:03 ok 23:12:14 I work for clozure, just so you know. 23:12:22 Worked on MCL back in the nineties 23:12:54 billstclair: how is clozure doing? I mean the business. 23:13:11 We're surviving 23:13:21 But I don't know those details 23:13:38 I've been getting regular paychecks every month since September of 2006 23:15:19 excellent. 23:16:13 gotta go 23:16:32 *leo2007* waves 23:57:16 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #ccl