03:49:02 -!- billstclair [n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [] 03:50:00 billstclair-sitt [n=billstcl@dsl-74-209-18-104.taconic.net] has joined #ccl 03:50:45 -!- billstclair-sitt is now known as billstclair 06:13:13 -!- bfulgham is now known as bfulgham|away 06:39:59 mcox [n=markcox@203-206-252-106.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ccl 06:40:14 Hey all 06:44:54 I have noticed that the Objective C runtime provides the ability to add instance variables to classes. Is it possible to use this infrastructure when redefining CLOS classes with :foreign-types? Or are there other reasons why this can't be done? 06:45:28 Sorry, redefining classes that have a different set of :foreign-types. 06:46:44 I might be misremembering, but I believe that on the 32-bit runtime, it's not possible to add instance variables at runtime. 06:53:15 I see. There is no mention of that in the documentation for class_addIvar, but I suspect "The low-level Objective-C runtime API is significantly updated in Mac OS X version 10.5" might be refering to what you were saying. 06:55:18 Do people build cocoa apps using slime? Or is a more compile and run approach involved? 06:59:28 I'm not sure what you mean. I often use the CCL Cocoa IDE, and can successfully develop Cocoa code in an incremental, lisp-like way, with some caveats mainly having to do with (the lack of) Cocoa thread safety. 07:06:19 The main issue I am having at the moment is redefining classes that contain changes to the number of slots that are :foreign-types. Having to restart the image to make these changes work makes things a little awkward. 07:23:41 ObjC isn't CLOS, unfortunately. 07:24:36 no #/updateInstanceForRedefinedClass, etc. 07:29:29 Yes that is a shame. Don't get me wrong, what you guys have done to get ObjC mixed with CLOS is amazing. I was just curious if it was possible to make some use of class_addIvar to improve on the already great interactive capabilities. 07:31:38 Not sure, but cases like (defclass foo ...) (make-instance 'foo ...) (defclass foo () ((new-ivar ...)) couldn't work (the instance wouldn't have the new ivar, and it might be hard to tell that it didn't.) 07:57:10 After a brief look through PyObjC, it too appears to build the class once and keep it static. 07:58:05 Anyway, thank you both for your comments. 08:00:51 ObjC is C, after all; if class's slots could change at runtime, it'd be harder to inline slot access and someone's head would expode. 08:07:56 -!- rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-125-18.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [] 08:15:29 vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has joined #ccl 08:16:04 Hi! Are there any builtin OCTETS-TO-STRING and STRING-TO-OCTETS functions in CCL? 08:21:14 gbyers: but isn't that a release/deployment time problem? I very rarely know what I am doing when I first start a new project (I'm a PhD student) and it's Lisp's flexibility and forgiveness which keeps me being productive whilst I'm learning. 08:22:27 vy: I have no idea why they aren't exported or documented, but CCL::ENCODE-STRING-TO-OCTETS and CCL::DECODE-STRING-FROM-OCTETS may be what you're looking for. 08:24:13 gbyers: Will it be you or me to report this to the ccl-devel ml? 08:24:35 report what ? 08:25:09 Asking the reason of why those functions aren't exported by default? 08:27:39 The answer is likely "it's an oversight"; saying "I have no idea ..." is a figure of speech. 08:30:13 A ticket in trac would help remind someone to export/document them when they have time; messages on the mailing list tend to scroll off the limits of people's attention span. 08:39:13 -!- mcox [n=markcox@203-206-252-106.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #ccl 09:57:47 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has joined #ccl 10:01:50 -!- vy [n=user@88.224.119.146] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:48:03 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:21:28 HeroDoug [i=herodoug@118.249.108.247] has joined #ccl 11:23:41 I'm wondering is anyone can provide me with a solid example of making a system call using WinXP? 11:24:40 Do you really mean "system call", or just "foreign function call" ? 11:25:20 I'm interested in making a system call, just something simple like getting the current time. I can't find any good examples online to play with. 11:26:41 Windows doesn't really use system calls in the same sense that unices do. 11:27:20 Ok, you'll have to excuse my ignorance, I'm working my way down from high level languages to lower level languages 11:27:31 Oh. 11:27:49 I'm mainly interested in interacting with the OS and asking it to do stuff. 11:28:39 I was looking at FFI and I've come to the assumption that external-call is the command to use 11:28:45 function* 11:29:21 That's a lot of what the CCL sources do ... there's a windows-specific example in "ccl:examples;mswin.lisp" that just puts a very simple window on the screen. 11:30:57 my god, I can't believe I missed that folder 11:31:10 it looks like it has a lot of good starting points 11:32:09 A lot of the examples are oriented towards OSX or Linux; that's the only file that's really windows-specific. 11:34:12 yeah I've read that the windows port is somewhat new; even still, the feature set seems to be quite even across platforms 11:36:01 anyways, thanks for the pointer, 11:36:19 I'll try playing around with that for a while 11:36:26 OK, have fun. 11:50:31 -!- HeroDoug [i=herodoug@118.249.108.247] has left #ccl 12:01:19 -!- sellout [n=greg@c-24-128-50-176.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 12:56:34 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has joined #ccl 14:39:05 jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #ccl 18:02:37 -!- jauaor [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [] 18:27:12 anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx07258.melroma.wayport.net] has joined #ccl 19:19:07 -!- anRch [n=markmill@nmd.sbx07258.melroma.wayport.net] has quit [] 19:43:35 sellout [n=greg@pool-141-156-131-49.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 20:45:35 rme [n=rme@pool-70-104-125-18.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ccl 21:40:17 dat [n=dthomp@nmd.sbx08736.mcminor.wayport.net] has joined #ccl 22:25:03 -!- milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:25:03 -!- lisppaste5 [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:26:32 milanj [n=milan@93.86.231.240] has joined #ccl 22:26:32 lisppaste5 [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #ccl 23:02:34 -!- Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]