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Does anyone know why the `broken-compose` procedure does not work in this code?: http://paste.lisp.org/display/332996 2016-12-01T13:11:26Z marrenarre: I described the error message in an annotation for the paste. 2016-12-01T13:12:45Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-01T13:13:14Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:13:20Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-12-01T13:18:53Z Khisanth joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:19:32Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:21:24Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:23:49Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-01T13:26:51Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:27:27Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:30:06Z kuribas joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:31:07Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-01T13:34:36Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:53:21Z joast joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:53:45Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-01T13:55:22Z keemyb joined #scheme 2016-12-01T13:58:50Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2016-12-01T14:00:21Z aries_liuxueyang joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:01:41Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-01T14:02:09Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:07:11Z rszeno joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:08:45Z rszeno quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-01T14:10:30Z man213_ joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:22:31Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:24:59Z drot quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 2016-12-01T14:29:38Z drot joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:32:24Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-01T14:34:01Z justinethier joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:35:17Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-01T14:40:17Z oleo joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:48:15Z Steverman joined #scheme 2016-12-01T14:50:35Z karswell` is now known as karswell 2016-12-01T14:55:17Z Steverman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-01T14:56:40Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-01T15:02:29Z jlongster joined #scheme 2016-12-01T15:04:15Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-01T15:06:03Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-12-01T15:15:02Z man213_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-01T15:27:32Z MoronicAcid joined #scheme 2016-12-01T15:32:59Z teleScope quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-01T15:33:32Z teleScope joined #scheme 2016-12-01T15:34:30Z MoronicAcid quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-01T15:36:13Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-01T15:54:16Z BusFactor1 joined #scheme 2016-12-01T16:01:30Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-01T16:01:50Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-01T16:02:33Z TheLemonMan joined #scheme 2016-12-01T16:03:23Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-01T16:07:05Z teleScope quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-01T16:17:58Z daviid joined #scheme 2016-12-01T16:18:36Z marrenarre: Hello. Does anyone know why the `broken-compose` procedure does not work in this code?: http://paste.lisp.org/display/332996 I described the error message in an annotation for the paste. 2016-12-01T16:20:39Z wasamasa: I'd ask #racket 2016-12-01T16:20:53Z wasamasa: my intuition tells me that the function signature is wrong 2016-12-01T16:22:12Z Ioann quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 2016-12-01T16:23:47Z gwatt: marrenarre: This is entirely unhelpful I'm sure, but broken-compose works for me on racket 6.7 2016-12-01T16:24:01Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-01T16:30:24Z tax joined #scheme 2016-12-01T16:33:44Z TheLemonMan quit (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.") 2016-12-01T16:57:19Z Steverman joined #scheme 2016-12-01T16:59:01Z lemonpie joined #scheme 2016-12-01T17:04:46Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-01T17:06:33Z aries_liuxueyang quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2016-12-01T17:07:57Z aries_liuxueyang joined #scheme 2016-12-01T17:11:34Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 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ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-01T23:31:47Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-01T23:41:54Z dpk: jcowan: what's the latest progress on R7RS? 2016-12-01T23:42:41Z dpk: last i heard the red edition was basically done in SRFI form … 2016-12-01T23:43:22Z jcowan: It is. Rather than a huge effort to translate everything to LaTex etc. etc. I am just going to leave it that way. 2016-12-01T23:43:34Z jcowan: There are a defined list of SRFIs and associated library names, and that's the Red Edition. 2016-12-01T23:43:46Z dpk: heh! 2016-12-01T23:44:04Z jcowan: http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/RedEditionBallot 2016-12-01T23:44:49Z jcowan: I suppose I should add the library names 2016-12-01T23:47:55Z jcowan: I'm working on Orange Edition (mostly numeric) SRFIs now 2016-12-01T23:50:24Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-01T23:55:20Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-02T00:02:00Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-02T00:02:45Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-02T00:05:55Z Riastradh: How about translating it to Lojban? 2016-12-02T00:06:21Z unphased quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-02T00:10:29Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-02T00:10:53Z dpk: jcowan: is there a big todo list for Orange anywhere so we can get an idea of what's coming up? 2016-12-02T00:12:07Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-02T00:12:18Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-12-02T00:12:20Z dpk: oh here http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/OrangeDocket 2016-12-02T00:12:25Z jcowan: yes 2016-12-02T00:12:37Z jcowan: there are similar pages for spectrally later dockets, also LexicalDocket and a few others 2016-12-02T00:12:52Z jcowan: Riastradh: Too much trouble 2016-12-02T00:13:16Z jcowan: Note that Larceny is currently Red-compliant 2016-12-02T00:13:24Z jcowan quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-02T00:13:43Z Riastradh: `Maybe I just like to say the word ``docket''. 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Each clause has this form: ((object ...) expression expression ...)" 2016-12-02T11:40:21Z wasamasa: "Evaluates key and compares the result with each object." 2016-12-02T11:40:47Z Grisha: I see 2016-12-02T11:40:52Z wasamasa: and so on 2016-12-02T11:41:09Z Grisha: you're saying that ``each object'' means ``each object within a clause''? 2016-12-02T11:41:11Z wasamasa: the exact wording has been probably adapted from the spec it implements though 2016-12-02T11:41:19Z wasamasa: yes 2016-12-02T11:41:23Z Grisha: I see, thank you 2016-12-02T11:41:39Z Grisha: Racket docs are as cryptic as this one 2016-12-02T11:41:55Z Grisha: The selected clause is the first one with a datum whose quoted form is equal? to the result of val-expr. 2016-12-02T11:42:07Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T11:42:11Z Grisha: https://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/case.html 2016-12-02T11:42:16Z Grisha: but maybe it's just me 2016-12-02T11:43:05Z wasamasa shrugs 2016-12-02T11:43:31Z wasamasa: it seems to be common to every language revolving around a spec, but then, racket isn't one 2016-12-02T11:44:08Z Grisha: wasamasa, so if I want to match against a single value, I'll still have to put the value in a list? 2016-12-02T11:44:13Z wasamasa: yes 2016-12-02T11:44:16Z Grisha: thank you 2016-12-02T11:45:24Z Grisha: I'm halfway through the little schemer and kind of tired of conds and decided to give case a try ;-) 2016-12-02T11:45:47Z Grisha: thought it would buy me a pair of parens 2016-12-02T11:45:58Z wasamasa: I sort of like condp in clojure 2016-12-02T11:47:24Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-02T11:47:31Z Grisha: I have got zero experience with Clojure 2016-12-02T12:02:32Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-02T12:03:05Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-02T12:07:41Z kuribas joined #scheme 2016-12-02T12:08:40Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T12:08:41Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-02T12:08:41Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T12:10:44Z ecraven: condp is like a special case? 2016-12-02T12:11:05Z gwatt: ecraven: you can give it a custom comparator 2016-12-02T12:11:16Z ecraven: yea, that's what I meant by "special" 2016-12-02T12:11:30Z ecraven: but it does seem useful 2016-12-02T12:11:50Z ecraven: we need keyword parameters for case :p 2016-12-02T12:13:43Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T12:14:55Z Grisha: thanks a lot guys and have a nice day! 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SRFI-1 and the things I built off SRFI-1 2016-12-02T19:21:53Z Tenhi joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:22:22Z jcowan: In any case, SRFIs now allow for errata (to a limited degree), so we really want hyperlinks 2016-12-02T19:24:27Z ecraven: jcowan: well, ideally we'd have something that pulled in all the current versions of the srfis and combined them into a great-looking document :D 2016-12-02T19:24:45Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:27:46Z jcowan: Ideally. 2016-12-02T19:28:02Z oleo: https://youtu.be/4CAPMS93tPw 2016-12-02T19:28:24Z dcluna joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:30:24Z rgrinberg quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-02T19:34:01Z kwmiebach__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T19:34:02Z makufiru quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T19:34:02Z cojy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T19:34:02Z NhanH quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T19:34:03Z mbrock quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T19:37:12Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:39:23Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:40:54Z mjl joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:41:00Z NhanH joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:41:39Z kwmiebach__ joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:42:12Z cojy joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:42:19Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-02T19:57:57Z avalokite joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:58:03Z avalokite quit (Changing host) 2016-12-02T19:58:03Z avalokite joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:58:58Z makufiru joined #scheme 2016-12-02T19:59:16Z avalokite quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-02T20:01:32Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:02:22Z mbrock joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:02:48Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-02T20:03:22Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:06:30Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-02T20:12:31Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T20:13:23Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:13:47Z tax quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-02T20:17:05Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-02T20:20:28Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:20:28Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-02T20:20:28Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:29:24Z MoronicAcid joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:39:08Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T20:42:56Z emacsomancer joined #scheme 2016-12-02T20:43:48Z MoronicAcid quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T20:58:24Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-02T21:00:34Z civodul joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:00:41Z bungoman joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:01:43Z igajsin1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-02T21:06:32Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:09:30Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-02T21:11:28Z terpri joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:13:12Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-02T21:20:28Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:24:31Z bboston7 joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:26:57Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:27:42Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:31:05Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-02T21:34:47Z bungoman quit 2016-12-02T21:35:18Z emacsoma` joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:35:33Z jshjsh quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-02T21:36:37Z emacsomancer quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-02T21:39:31Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-02T21:40:54Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T21:43:21Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-02T21:47:52Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-02T21:58:53Z bungoman joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:01:31Z Guest26 joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:02:32Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-02T22:03:31Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-02T22:04:02Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:09:38Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-02T22:11:01Z bungoman quit 2016-12-02T22:11:08Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T22:13:55Z enderby` joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:14:52Z enderby quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T22:25:53Z bboston7 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T22:29:43Z dcluna quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T22:34:03Z ASau joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:36:22Z neoncont_ joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:38:22Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-02T22:43:42Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:43:43Z grublet quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-02T22:44:38Z marrenarre joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:45:01Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-02T22:47:13Z marrenarre: wasamasa, gwatt: Sorry I missed your messages yesterday. 2016-12-02T22:47:56Z marrenarre: gwatt: That's interesting---I'm on 6.1. Maybe a bug? Seems a bit trivial for a bug, though. 2016-12-02T22:48:27Z marrenarre: wasamasa: I'll try there. 2016-12-02T22:48:46Z marrenarre: And how do you mean that it seems wrong? 2016-12-02T22:52:00Z wasamasa: it's been some time since I saw an extra pair of parentheses in a define 2016-12-02T22:52:07Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-02T22:54:08Z enderby` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-02T22:54:28Z marrenarre: wasamasa: Would you like to elaborate on your thoughts? 2016-12-02T22:54:54Z wasamasa: not really as I've neither used that syntax nor racket 2016-12-02T22:56:33Z marrenarre: You mean you have not used that syntax in Scheme? You are aware that the code is written in Scheme and not Racket Lang, yes? 2016-12-02T22:58:02Z wasamasa: hm, I must be thinking of someone else then 2016-12-02T23:16:05Z marrenarre: wasamasa: Actually I was just told that that syntax is not part of R5RS, so you're right. 2016-12-02T23:16:19Z marrenarre: I'm really surprised by this---I was so sure. 2016-12-02T23:20:57Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-02T23:22:57Z Guest26 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-12-02T23:25:10Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T23:25:26Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-12-02T23:42:31Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1)) 2016-12-02T23:43:30Z Aune quit (Quit: Lämnar) 2016-12-02T23:43:46Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-02T23:44:48Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-02T23:47:17Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-02T23:49:50Z kruhft quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-02T23:54:10Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-02T23:57:22Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-03T00:03:17Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-03T00:03:42Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-03T00:14:05Z marrenarre left #scheme 2016-12-03T00:16:24Z Menche quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-03T00:16:57Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-03T00:19:14Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-12-03T00:26:43Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-03T00:28:14Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-03T00:34:25Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-03T00:46:55Z neoncont_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-03T01:07:32Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-03T01:13:53Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-03T01:19:33Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-03T01:19:40Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-03T01:21:38Z sethalves quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-03T01:25:33Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-03T01:35:56Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-03T01:40:37Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-03T01:49:39Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:05:20Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:05:20Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-03T02:05:20Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:07:21Z mlaine quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-03T02:07:33Z fgudin quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-03T02:08:39Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:09:38Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-12-03T02:10:46Z mlaine joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:10:52Z fgudin joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:21:28Z sethalves joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:21:57Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-03T02:38:59Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-03T02:59:51Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-03T03:00:07Z cromachina joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:01:54Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:06:30Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-03T03:09:11Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:10:39Z bjz_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-03T03:26:26Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-03T03:30:11Z safe joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:34:13Z ArneBab_ joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:34:34Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:38:39Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-03T03:41:58Z teleScope joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:42:07Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-12-03T03:45:17Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-03T03:47:01Z noethics joined #scheme 2016-12-03T03:50:36Z emacsoma` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-03T04:03:23Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-03T04:04:25Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-03T04:08:37Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-03T04:10:09Z jlongster quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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mouse clicks don't change the colour components, and I cannot edit the numbers with the keyboard either 2016-12-03T18:43:30Z amz3`: ecraven: mousewheel 2016-12-03T18:43:40Z amz3`: or arrow keys 2016-12-03T18:44:20Z ecraven: amz3`: 2016-12-03T18:44:34Z ecraven: there's a 2s delay before mouse wheel is reacted to 2016-12-03T18:44:40Z ecraven: using conkeror 2016-12-03T18:45:02Z amz3`: that's strange I will install conkeror and try it 2016-12-03T18:45:12Z ecraven: about 0.5s for up/down 2016-12-03T18:45:21Z ecraven: I think conkeror is firefox 2016-12-03T18:52:48Z amz3`: ecraven: what's your CPU spec? 2016-12-03T18:53:16Z amz3`: on my side is very smooth 2016-12-03T18:54:19Z amz3`: I will try on my mobile later 2016-12-03T18:54:37Z turtleman quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-03T18:59:55Z amz3`: thx for the feedback 2016-12-03T19:00:47Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-03T19:04:36Z ecraven: i7 low voltage, should be plenty fast enough 2016-12-03T19:16:29Z pierpa joined #scheme 2016-12-03T19:21:42Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-03T19:33:09Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-03T19:40:53Z bboston7 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-03T19:43:57Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-03T19:55:15Z jmd quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-03T20:02:20Z amz3`: same here 2016-12-03T20:06:40Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-03T20:07:37Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-03T20:08:03Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-03T20:09:49Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-03T20:10:06Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-03T20:12:24Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-03T20:17:54Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-03T20:22:26Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-03T20:26:14Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-03T20:28:58Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-03T20:30:49Z jonaslund: network roundtrips ? 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2016-12-05T17:49:58Z ecraven: maybe I just didn't know you before #clim fame ;) 2016-12-05T17:50:35Z jackdaniel: always is a big word, but I'm lurking here for a few years 2016-12-05T17:50:40Z jackdaniel: :) 2016-12-05T17:51:22Z Ioann quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 2016-12-05T17:51:52Z ecraven: cool 2016-12-05T17:52:16Z ecraven: some day we need to make CLIM3 for Scheme :D 2016-12-05T17:53:18Z jackdaniel: I'd expect CLIM3 being way smaller than CLIM2, so it makes sense ;-) 2016-12-05T17:53:20Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-12-05T17:53:48Z dobriennn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-05T17:58:33Z ecraven: jackdaniel: I've only looked at what dylan had, that looked interesting. DUIM, I think? IIRC it was based on the CLIM experiences 2016-12-05T17:58:35Z leb quit 2016-12-05T17:59:35Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-05T17:59:40Z jackdaniel: I've heard dylan implementation was never finished. CLIM spec has various flaws (it contradicts itself at points) and is a bit redundant, maybe some of the issues were fixed in Dylan toolkit 2016-12-05T18:01:38Z ecraven: iirc the scope was a bit different, so it wasn't a port as much as an evolution (or sideways branch) 2016-12-05T18:03:15Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-05T18:04:35Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-05T18:05:46Z leb joined #scheme 2016-12-05T18:06:59Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-05T18:07:17Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-05T18:21:09Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-05T18:21:43Z alezost joined #scheme 2016-12-05T18:22:45Z JoshS quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-05T18:24:01Z leb quit 2016-12-05T18:26:08Z unphased quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-05T18:28:17Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-05T18:44:57Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-05T18:48:48Z daviid: jackdaniel: any pointer to CLIM3 spec/doc? 2016-12-05T18:49:45Z _leb joined #scheme 2016-12-05T18:57:38Z _leb quit 2016-12-05T19:01:53Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:03:57Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-05T19:03:57Z ecraven: daviid: maybe https://github.com/robert-strandh/CLIMatis 2016-12-05T19:12:11Z daviid: ecraven: thanks 2016-12-05T19:16:53Z jackdaniel: there isn't such thing as clim3 2016-12-05T19:17:10Z jackdaniel: daviid: I was referring to potential future specification 2016-12-05T19:17:22Z jackdaniel: afaik climatis is just a draft with just a few pointers 2016-12-05T19:17:24Z daviid: jackdaniel: ah, I had all of a sudden great hope :) 2016-12-05T19:17:40Z jackdaniel: heh 2016-12-05T19:20:46Z ASau` joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:21:26Z momofarm_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:21:58Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:23:01Z elflng_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:23:14Z gwatt_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:23:32Z gnomon_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:24:26Z fadein_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:24:50Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:25:05Z abbe_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:26:22Z kwmiebach___ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:26:38Z unphased quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-05T19:26:57Z jyc_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:26:58Z gf3_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:26:58Z drdo_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:27:00Z x5eb joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:27:19Z _chazu joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:27:53Z gwatt quit (Disconnected by services) 2016-12-05T19:27:59Z gko_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:28:01Z gwatt_ is now known as gwatt 2016-12-05T19:28:32Z tax quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:32Z ASau quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:33Z DerGuteMoritz quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:33Z elflng quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:33Z drdo quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z kwmiebach__ quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z jyc quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z askatasuna quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z samth quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z chazu quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z _0x5eb_ quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z gnomon quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z jefrite quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z fadein quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z asumu quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z gf3 quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z averell quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z cantstanya quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z gko quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z momofarm quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z abbe quit (*.net *.split) 2016-12-05T19:28:35Z jyc_ is now known as jyc 2016-12-05T19:28:39Z drdo_ is now known as drdo 2016-12-05T19:28:40Z x5eb is now known as _0x5eb_ 2016-12-05T19:28:40Z gf3_ is now known as gf3 2016-12-05T19:28:56Z momofarm_ is now known as momofarm 2016-12-05T19:29:20Z askatasuna joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:30:18Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:30:58Z jefrite joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:34:22Z samth joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:34:32Z DerGuteMoritz joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:35:32Z asumu joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:35:48Z cantstanya joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:44:37Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-05T19:51:51Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:54:54Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:57:15Z civodul joined #scheme 2016-12-05T19:59:28Z ovenpasta: hi, any emacs/or-non-emacs utility to "tidy" scheme source code? 2016-12-05T20:00:38Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:02:56Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:03:07Z wasamasa: you'll have to do with non-emacs utilities, assuming there are any 2016-12-05T20:03:15Z wasamasa: I'm fairly sure there aren't any written in elisp 2016-12-05T20:03:21Z wasamasa: also, what exactly does "tidy" mean? 2016-12-05T20:05:06Z unphased quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:06:52Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-05T20:07:57Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:08:10Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:08:16Z neoncont_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-05T20:08:51Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:09:00Z fadein_ is now known as fadein 2016-12-05T20:09:02Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:09:20Z gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 2016-12-05T20:09:22Z C-Keen: ovenpasta: how about M-x indent-region in scheme-mode? 2016-12-05T20:10:19Z ovenpasta: C-Keen: it doesn't anything, I've pasted a piece of code with no newlines... and the indent region doesn't touch newlines 2016-12-05T20:10:41Z C-Keen: yes 2016-12-05T20:11:25Z tax joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:13:16Z C-Keen: ovenpasta: pp-macroexpand-last-sexpr might do the trick 2016-12-05T20:13:25Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:14:14Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-05T20:20:44Z jcowan_ is now known as jcowan 2016-12-05T20:22:09Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:24:54Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:26:22Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:32:17Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:33:03Z ovenpasta: C-Keen: thanks it works mostly, seems that doesn't like #f 2016-12-05T20:33:04Z enderby quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-05T20:33:18Z C-Keen: it's meant for elisp 2016-12-05T20:33:22Z enderby joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:33:32Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:37:05Z unphased quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:37:11Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2016-12-05T20:39:51Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-12-05T20:54:26Z n_blownapart: hi I tried to ask on #math , to no avail. I'm trying to write a scheme program that computes the linear combination for 2 GCD numbers, like this : m x + n y = gcd(m,n) . does anyone understand the math behind this solution? http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/85830/how-to-use-the-extended-euclidean-algorithm-manually/85841#85841 thanks 2016-12-05T20:54:27Z rudybot: http://teensy.info/tsZRpSRgf6 2016-12-05T20:58:23Z justinethier joined #scheme 2016-12-05T21:02:18Z Blukunfando joined #scheme 2016-12-05T21:04:56Z elflng_ is now known as elflng 2016-12-05T21:10:28Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-05T21:11:17Z mkmgcom[m] quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-05T21:11:18Z M-krsiehl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-05T21:11:27Z enderby quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1)) 2016-12-05T21:16:39Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-12-07T04:08:30Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-07T04:08:52Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-07T04:18:54Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-07T04:19:13Z sethalves joined #scheme 2016-12-07T04:21:51Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2016-12-07T04:23:24Z n_blownapart: (lambda (x) (lambda (y) x)) : "Aside from the formal arguments of the lambda expression, there is only one variable, the final x, which is a bound variable (it's bound by the formal argument of the outer lambda expression). Therefore, this lambda expression as a whole has no free variables, so this is a combinator." 2016-12-07T04:23:48Z n_blownapart: hi would anyone explain how the last x is a bound variable here ? ^ 2016-12-07T04:24:31Z n_blownapart: what about the other formal expressions, they are not bound? still haven't gotten these distinctions straight 2016-12-07T04:24:46Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-07T04:27:17Z retroj left #scheme 2016-12-07T04:28:53Z n_blownapart: above it says "the final x" ... is the argument furthest to the left called the "final" one ? 2016-12-07T04:29:58Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-07T04:32:00Z _leb joined #scheme 2016-12-07T04:32:28Z cameronfr quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-07T04:35:01Z cameronfr joined #scheme 2016-12-07T04:39:28Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-07T04:39:55Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-07T04:41:25Z qu1j0t3: n_blownapart: it's bound because it does not come from the environment of the outermost expression. 2016-12-07T04:41:42Z qu1j0t3: n_blownapart: it's bound to the x of the outer lambda. 2016-12-07T04:41:49Z qu1j0t3: while y is unbound (free) 2016-12-07T04:42:13Z qu1j0t3: ugh 2016-12-07T04:42:16Z qu1j0t3: sorry that's mistaken 2016-12-07T04:42:22Z qu1j0t3: y is simply unused 2016-12-07T04:42:25Z unphased quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-07T04:42:30Z qu1j0t3 has late night brain 2016-12-07T04:42:51Z qu1j0t3: yes it has no free variables. 2016-12-07T04:43:00Z qu1j0t3: the inner lambda introduces y but nothing uses it. 2016-12-07T04:57:43Z n_blownapart: sorry qu1j0t3 hold on thanks much .. 2016-12-07T04:59:30Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-07T05:02:41Z n_blownapart quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-07T05:03:00Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2016-12-07T05:06:28Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-07T05:06:36Z n_blownapart: thanks again qu1j0t3 this is a basic that I haven't really come across yet in the sicp 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I can't understand it as is. I do understand the math behind it generally. thanks https://www.refheap.com/124172 2016-12-08T23:04:34Z n_blownapart: this is "euclid's extended algorithm" 2016-12-08T23:04:48Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-08T23:06:26Z n_blownapart: this finds the gcd of 2 numbers using ax + by = (gcd a b) 2016-12-08T23:09:15Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-12-08T23:09:16Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:09:27Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-08T23:11:25Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:11:56Z mumptai quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2016-12-08T23:12:25Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-08T23:13:33Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-08T23:17:10Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1)) 2016-12-08T23:17:57Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:18:19Z BusFactor1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-12-08T23:23:44Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-08T23:25:43Z qu1j0t3: n_blownapart: what part do you not understand? Or the algorithm itself? 2016-12-08T23:28:09Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:28:10Z n_blownapart: the algorithm I can do with pen and paper qu1j0t3 .. its the scheme 2016-12-08T23:28:20Z n_blownapart: that I don't understand 2016-12-08T23:28:53Z n_blownapart: its just a type of substitution using the quotients and the remainders 2016-12-08T23:29:18Z n_blownapart: but the scheme, is beyond what I've seen in chapter 1 of sicp 2016-12-08T23:30:12Z n_blownapart: plus it doesn't show the gcd (plain) algorithm without the ax + by part, so I have no point of reference 2016-12-08T23:31:35Z qu1j0t3: i thought SICP covered gcd 2016-12-08T23:32:07Z mikeyhc: it does, n_blownapart which part of the code do you not understand? 2016-12-08T23:32:07Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-08T23:32:41Z n_blownapart: yeah it does. but this is a program that produces a matrix, or the line in a matrix that corresponds to the answer returned 2016-12-08T23:33:31Z lemonpie: (named let is covered briefly in chapter 4 btw) 2016-12-08T23:33:57Z qu1j0t3: well, it only ever returns a pair 2016-12-08T23:34:00Z qu1j0t3: as far as i can see 2016-12-08T23:34:14Z n_blownapart: mikeyhc: most of it 2016-12-08T23:34:34Z mikeyhc: n_blownapart: do you know how the named let works? 2016-12-08T23:34:50Z mikeyhc: i.e. (let loop ...) 2016-12-08T23:35:11Z n_blownapart: no sorry I haven't gotten there mikeyhc 2016-12-08T23:35:24Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-08T23:35:27Z mikeyhc: thats ok, let me know where to start from 2016-12-08T23:35:38Z n_blownapart: I know let is an "in place" sort of define 2016-12-08T23:36:10Z n_blownapart: it operates similarly to define 2016-12-08T23:36:31Z mikeyhc: yup, and a named let is similar to an in-place function definition, you can use the name (in this case "loop") to call the let again 2016-12-08T23:37:05Z mikeyhc: so the code (loop ...) will loop back to the let definition, but using the new values 2016-12-08T23:37:20Z n_blownapart: maybe I'm jumping the gun. I got help with the math part; a math prof. suggested I tried to code the extended algorithm, but I cannot, I got this solution online. 2016-12-08T23:37:24Z n_blownapart: mikeyhc: ok 2016-12-08T23:39:01Z mikeyhc: n_blownapart: https://www.refheap.com/124173 2016-12-08T23:39:05Z mikeyhc: something similar to that 2016-12-08T23:39:25Z n_blownapart: thanks one moment 2016-12-08T23:39:52Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:40:44Z n_blownapart: yeah I cannot process that. thanks mikeyhc .. so far I understand the whole process in the upvoted answer here : http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/85830/how-to-use-the-extended-euclidean-algorithm-manually/714891 2016-12-08T23:41:16Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-08T23:41:24Z lemonpie: ugh, i was looking at a page that explained this in a really obvious way just yesterday 2016-12-08T23:41:54Z n_blownapart: lemonpie: was I asking questions ? 2016-12-08T23:42:03Z n_blownapart: yesterday? 2016-12-08T23:42:26Z lemonpie: no, it's just, if i still had that url, it might help you... checking with chrome but it's not helping 2016-12-08T23:42:31Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:43:19Z n_blownapart: there is a reverse process that I've seen. but once this technique was explained to me I found it easier. but open to any more elegant solutions 2016-12-08T23:43:35Z n_blownapart: this meaning the pasted one 2016-12-08T23:45:10Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-08T23:47:00Z cyber_pru joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:47:59Z cromachina joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:48:11Z n_blownapart: mikeyhc: could you walk me through the argument names s, t, r, old-s, old-t, old-r ? I would have guessed there would be 4 and not 6 2016-12-08T23:49:30Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-08T23:49:34Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:50:06Z lemonpie: well, it's the extended algorithm, hence you pass the remainder as well, so 3 values + 3 last values 2016-12-08T23:50:23Z mikeyhc: correct 2016-12-08T23:50:36Z n_blownapart: that's a good start thans 2016-12-08T23:50:39Z n_blownapart: thanks 2016-12-08T23:50:45Z lemonpie: http://www-math.ucdenver.edu/~wcherowi/courses/m5410/exeucalg.html this kind of explains it ok, but it's not as clear as the page i'm looking for 2016-12-08T23:51:40Z n_blownapart: lemonpie: mikeyhc I am trying to learn as much as I can re: these : 2016-12-08T23:52:23Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:54:18Z n_blownapart: euclid's algorithm and gcd and how they are foundational to number theory; fibonacci numbers etc 2016-12-08T23:54:47Z n_blownapart: but I haven't finished chapter 1 in sicp. 2016-12-08T23:55:51Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-08T23:56:35Z wasamasa: soon I'll catch up with n_blownapart in my SICP studies 2016-12-08T23:57:07Z enderby joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:57:13Z n_blownapart: you had better hurry wasamasa 2016-12-08T23:57:23Z wasamasa: currently at chapter 1.2.5 2016-12-08T23:57:30Z n_blownapart: what a bitch of a book 2016-12-08T23:57:37Z wasamasa: wat 2016-12-08T23:57:58Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2016-12-08T23:58:22Z n_blownapart: :) I even quit and tried to learn haskell for a month 2016-12-08T23:58:26Z wasamasa: lol 2016-12-08T23:58:37Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-12-08T23:58:38Z n_blownapart: I just suck at programming. I am learning some math, though 2016-12-08T23:58:47Z wasamasa: I doubt that's more illuminating, but I've yet to find an actually approachable haskell book 2016-12-08T23:58:55Z wasamasa: there is a paid WIP thing that looks promising 2016-12-08T23:59:25Z n_blownapart: haskell from first principles, you mean? wasamasa 2016-12-08T23:59:33Z wasamasa checks 2016-12-08T23:59:47Z wasamasa: yup 2016-12-09T00:00:17Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:00:31Z n_blownapart: yeah they told me they have 1/2 price for students / college affiliates (bringing it to 30US$) 2016-12-09T00:01:07Z lemonpie: i can't remember what i used to 'learn' haskell, it was a long time ago and i was fine with the language until i kept running into brick walls with the IO monad (I think i was failing to understand having to lift things) 2016-12-09T00:01:30Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-09T00:01:31Z lemonpie: i like the language in theory, but it has far too many operators 2016-12-09T00:02:05Z wasamasa: apparently it's no longer WIP 2016-12-09T00:02:39Z n_blownapart: wasamasa: you could probably solicit them for a discount. I wrote them about it 2016-12-09T00:03:08Z wasamasa: I better hurry about that because I'm absolving my final semester :D 2016-12-09T00:03:42Z n_blownapart: that is a 50 cent word ! 2016-12-09T00:04:06Z wasamasa: is that even the right one 2016-12-09T00:04:31Z n_blownapart: I know it in the context of absolution of sins 2016-12-09T00:04:37Z n_blownapart: absolving sins .. 2016-12-09T00:04:47Z wasamasa: well, no, I meant finishing 2016-12-09T00:05:22Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-09T00:06:02Z n_blownapart: I like it ! verb: set or declare (someone) free from blame, guilt, or responsibility. 2016-12-09T00:07:23Z n_blownapart: here's the thing. I work at UC Berkeley. no one, I mean *No One* has the time or inclination to tutor me in scheme. everyone is tied over a barrel 2016-12-09T00:07:35Z cyber_pru left #scheme 2016-12-09T00:08:04Z cjh`_ is now known as cjh` 2016-12-09T00:08:35Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T00:09:45Z wasamasa: have you tried throwing money at them? 2016-12-09T00:10:41Z n_blownapart: yeah but also 2016-12-09T00:10:44Z n_blownapart: .. 2016-12-09T00:11:02Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-09T00:11:08Z n_blownapart: I don't know how much scheme they actually know. 2016-12-09T00:11:19Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:13:02Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:13:11Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:13:11Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-09T00:13:11Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:22:42Z davidh quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-09T00:23:16Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:23:33Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-09T00:25:02Z n_blownapart quit 2016-12-09T00:28:09Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:38:33Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:43:34Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T00:47:58Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T00:48:21Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-09T00:51:00Z groscoe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-09T00:52:08Z turtleman quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T00:55:44Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T00:59:54Z dmiles joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:00:12Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:06:59Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T01:10:28Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-09T01:11:25Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:11:42Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:12:09Z badkins quit 2016-12-09T01:15:03Z shdeng joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:16:27Z ArneBab quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-09T01:17:15Z ArneBab joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:18:22Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-09T01:18:42Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T01:18:48Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-09T01:19:37Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:20:23Z sethalves quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T01:23:11Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:32:27Z terpri joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:34:57Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T01:39:23Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:39:52Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-09T01:46:40Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T01:51:07Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T01:56:24Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T01:56:33Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:00:52Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:07:22Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:09:09Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T02:11:10Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-09T02:12:00Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:13:41Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:22:23Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T02:26:50Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:28:57Z neoncontrails quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T02:32:36Z davidh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T02:34:57Z Chrono is now known as Guest18172 2016-12-09T02:34:58Z Guest18172 quit (Killed (verne.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))) 2016-12-09T02:37:45Z SkyThrusting joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:48:02Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-09T02:53:40Z bobo joined #scheme 2016-12-09T02:59:24Z davidh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:02:47Z cky joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:04:16Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-09T03:05:13Z groovy2shoes joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:10:08Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-09T03:10:14Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:17:07Z karswell` joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:20:14Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:20:32Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:22:29Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-09T03:23:01Z ArneBab_ joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:23:10Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:23:19Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:27:08Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-09T03:28:42Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-09T03:42:36Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-09T23:25:35Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2016-12-09T23:25:57Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-09T23:26:18Z ragepandemic quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T23:26:24Z noethics joined #scheme 2016-12-09T23:29:42Z n_blownapart: hi what is the 'exponential of a number modulo another modulo' ? I included some commented tinkering so you know I understand the basics of fermat's little theorem.) https://www.refheap.com/124189 thanks for looking 2016-12-09T23:30:50Z n_blownapart: I don't know what the 3 arguments should be 2016-12-09T23:31:00Z n_blownapart: particularly m 2016-12-09T23:32:34Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-09T23:40:15Z qu1j0t3: pretty sure this is covered in sicp, again 2016-12-09T23:40:27Z qu1j0t3: did you drop sicp or are you redoing it? 2016-12-09T23:42:38Z n_blownapart: qu1j0t3: thanks , its covered, I'm using it now. I don't understand the wording of the sicp text. let me paste it ... 2016-12-09T23:44:32Z n_blownapart: https://www.refheap.com/124190 qu1j0t3 2016-12-09T23:45:10Z qu1j0t3: which part is a problem? 2016-12-09T23:45:32Z n_blownapart: I understand the basic math and when 2 numbers are said to be congruent modulo n ..etc 2016-12-09T23:46:07Z n_blownapart: they both have the same remainder if n is prime 2016-12-09T23:48:30Z Menche quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-09T23:48:38Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-09T23:48:53Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-09T23:50:26Z n_blownapart: what is m, the 3rd parameter ? 2016-12-09T23:51:13Z lemonpie: modulo 2016-12-09T23:53:11Z n_blownapart: sorry, .. oh so you're inputting the modulo.. its assumed we know the modulo ? lemonpie sorry I'm a bit confused 2016-12-09T23:53:38Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-09T23:53:41Z lemonpie: as it says, it's a function that raises base to the power of expt modulo another number 2016-12-09T23:54:21Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-09T23:55:40Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-09T23:56:03Z n_blownapart: but no modulo is calculated.. m is the modulo of (modulo base exp), correct? lemonpie 2016-12-09T23:56:22Z lemonpie: (remainder x m) is the same as (modulo x m) 2016-12-09T23:56:22Z n_blownapart: so we need to know it beforehand 2016-12-09T23:58:02Z n_blownapart: lemonpie: please add input values on line 15 (expmod base exp m) https://www.refheap.com/124189 2016-12-09T23:58:20Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-09T23:59:04Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-12-09T23:59:19Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-10T00:00:34Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-10T00:03:37Z lemonpie: i don't know what you mean by line 15, there's no code there 2016-12-10T00:04:44Z n_blownapart: I just meant put in logical values that will run the function 2016-12-10T00:05:25Z n_blownapart: like i.e. I tried (expmod 3 11 6) ... but that returned ... 2016-12-10T00:05:35Z lemonpie: 6 isn't a prime number 2016-12-10T00:05:55Z n_blownapart: sorry hold on 2016-12-10T00:06:38Z lemonpie: you're supposed to be trying to find an 'a' that satisfies a^p-1 mod p = 1 where p is the number you're trying to determine is prime or not 2016-12-10T00:07:03Z lemonpie: if you can't find such an a, then p isn't prime 2016-12-10T00:07:31Z n_blownapart: dang, sorry I'm confused . let me work on it -- thanks 2016-12-10T00:08:32Z DeeEff[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T00:08:33Z mkmgcom[m] quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T00:08:33Z M-krsiehl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T00:08:56Z n_blownapart: where does it say something about p-1 ? 2016-12-10T00:09:31Z n_blownapart: sometimes the sicp is badly written, I think 2016-12-10T00:09:35Z lemonpie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat_primality_test <- that's what you're trying to implement 2016-12-10T00:10:14Z lemonpie: the expmod function is just a stepping stone on implementing fermat's primality test 2016-12-10T00:10:50Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-10T00:12:41Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-10T00:13:07Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-10T00:14:15Z n_blownapart: lemonpie: if this is what it does : "it's a function that raises base to the power of expt modulo another number" then (expmod 3 11 7) would return 3^11mod7 which is 3^5 => 243 ?? 2016-12-10T00:14:35Z lemonpie: (3 ^ 11) mod 7 2016-12-10T00:15:12Z n_blownapart: bingo .. got it .. thanks kindly 2016-12-10T00:15:23Z lemonpie: but that isn't how it should be used for fermat's, it should be of the form a ^ p-1 mod p 2016-12-10T00:15:38Z lemonpie: so you'd normally do something like (3^10) mod 11 2016-12-10T00:16:44Z lemonpie: if that's 1, then 11 might be prime (not 'is' but 'might' - fermat's test tells you numbers that AREN'T prime and you're supposed to run it a few times on random numbers, after a few tries if they're ALL 'possibly prime' then you can be reasonably certain it probably is 2016-12-10T00:17:30Z lemonpie: i mean, we KNOW 11 is a prime number, so it should be 1... as should (expmod 8 10 11) 2016-12-10T00:18:16Z n_blownapart: ok thanks .. I need to sort through it. the full program is quite long. oh so is that where the p-1 comes from? 2016-12-10T00:18:52Z n_blownapart: where you have (expmod 8 10 11) 2016-12-10T00:19:15Z n_blownapart: (expmod 3 10 11) 2016-12-10T00:19:43Z lemonpie: well, yes, we're testing p=11 to see if it's prime, so the general equation for fermat's proof is ((a^(11-1)) mod 11) == 1 2016-12-10T00:20:17Z n_blownapart: interesting its starting to sink in lemonpie thanks 2016-12-10T00:20:52Z lemonpie: the irony is, this part of sicp isn't really trying to teach you fermat's equation, that's just scenery for explaining how recursive functions work :) 2016-12-10T00:21:40Z n_blownapart: that is some challenging scenary / terrain ! here's the thing. so far we have the basics of number theory 2016-12-10T00:21:59Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-10T00:22:02Z ASau joined #scheme 2016-12-10T00:22:38Z n_blownapart: gcd extended euclid algorithm , fibonaccis , now fermat's ... does it soon gel together ? 2016-12-10T00:23:31Z lemonpie: i can't remember if sicp relies on them later, gcd is possible, fibonacci is a time honoured tradition in CS 2016-12-10T00:24:12Z lemonpie: the point of teaching them is that they're real concrete functions that are used and can be checked if your implementation achieves the function's goal 2016-12-10T00:25:04Z n_blownapart: I heard gcd and euclid's algorithm are the basis of much of number theory. 2016-12-10T00:25:28Z BusFactor1 joined #scheme 2016-12-10T00:25:33Z n_blownapart: I'd like to get to the bottom of the basics at least. . thanks lemonpie 2016-12-10T00:27:18Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-10T00:28:48Z jcowan: Would a tool that reported whether a Scheme program was as a whole tail recursive be a useful thing? 2016-12-10T00:54:37Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-10T00:57:46Z n_blownapart quit 2016-12-10T00:58:30Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-10T00:59:22Z qu1j0t3: most likely yes 2016-12-10T00:59:33Z qu1j0t3: I use the same tool in Scala quite a bit, aka '@tailrec' 2016-12-10T01:08:30Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-10T01:10:11Z cemerick quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T01:12:15Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-10T01:20:55Z sethalves quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T01:24:13Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-10T01:30:52Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-12-10T01:35:59Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-10T01:45:19Z Riastradh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T01:50:28Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-12-10T01:55:27Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-10T01:57:22Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-10T02:05:48Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-10T02:07:37Z DGASAU joined #scheme 2016-12-10T02:14:24Z Jameser joined #scheme 2016-12-10T02:15:06Z Fare: So, I have defined some general inheritance mechanism that can be used for incremental definition of numeric functions as well as of classes, etc. 2016-12-10T02:15:26Z Fare: This has probably been done before. Any reference in academic literature? Who would know about that? 2016-12-10T02:17:21Z deank quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-10T02:19:17Z snits quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T02:24:45Z Jameser quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-10T02:27:54Z jim joined #scheme 2016-12-10T02:34:47Z qu1j0t3: well, it was somewhat covered in SICP, I think. 2016-12-10T02:34:47Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-10T02:35:00Z qu1j0t3: coercions and such, in chapter 2. 2016-12-10T02:35:16Z qu1j0t3: you could also look at Kiczales, The Meta-Object Protocol 2016-12-10T02:35:41Z qu1j0t3: and Liskov 2016-12-10T02:39:27Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-10T02:41:39Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-10T02:48:14Z BusFactor1 quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-10T03:06:08Z Fare: Kiczales probably does it, but in a very ad-hoc way. 2016-12-10T03:06:14Z Fare: I'll have to re-read SICP 2016-12-10T03:06:19Z Fare: Dunno about Liskov. 2016-12-10T03:10:11Z groscoe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-10T03:12:43Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-10T03:16:13Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-10T03:17:31Z robotoad quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-10T03:20:04Z qu1j0t3: Liskov might be less ad hoc. 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It's easier to convert people to Catholicism if you just re-skin their existing deity. 2016-12-10T12:59:15Z lambda-smith joined #scheme 2016-12-10T13:22:10Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-10T13:26:45Z turtleman joined #scheme 2016-12-10T13:35:59Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-10T13:37:50Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-10T13:53:50Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:03:27Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-12-10T14:05:11Z bjz quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-10T14:05:22Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:05:33Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:11:41Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T14:21:57Z leot quit (Quit: BBL) 2016-12-10T14:28:36Z bobo joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:29:01Z Fare: I've reduced inheritance to 99 characters, applicable to producing any function, not just datatype definitions, and am trying to find how publishable that is... (define (make p b) (letrec ((f (λ (x) ((p f b) x)))) f)) (define ((inherit p q) f s) (p f (q f s))) 2016-12-10T14:29:45Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:33:05Z jusss joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:35:03Z Fare quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-10T14:35:18Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:37:05Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:37:58Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:43:17Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-10T14:49:18Z jusss quit (Quit: time to go) 2016-12-10T14:53:57Z bjz quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-10T14:54:39Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-10T14:56:03Z bobo is now known as pia 2016-12-10T14:59:19Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-10T15:04:38Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-10T15:07:06Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-12-10T15:09:37Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-10T15:32:11Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-10T15:35:25Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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252 seconds) 2016-12-10T20:43:48Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-10T20:46:54Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-10T20:53:52Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-10T20:54:58Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-10T20:55:30Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-10T20:56:24Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-10T20:56:55Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-10T21:02:01Z neoncont_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-10T21:09:33Z Fare: Hi. Can a kind soul help me translating this CL macro to syntax-rules? (defmacro nest (&rest things) "Macro to do keep code nesting and indentation under control." (reduce #'(lambda (outer inner) `(,@outer ,inner)) things :from-end t)) 2016-12-10T21:10:52Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-10T21:10:58Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-10T21:11:01Z Fare: I think I got it: (define-syntax nest (syntax-rules () ((nest (x ...) y z ...) (x ... (nest y z ...))) 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(opinionated views are fine) i need to be able to use some linux APIs, especially to deal with namespaces 2016-12-11T19:54:17Z ertes: i considered chicken, but it seems like i would have to do the bindings myself… i wouldn't mind it, but couldn't find a tutorial-style introduction on how to do that 2016-12-11T19:56:02Z C-Keen: ertes: which bindings? 2016-12-11T19:56:09Z edgar-rft: ertes: there's which was made for shell srcipting 2016-12-11T19:56:21Z ertes: C-Keen: to the linux namespaces API (unshare, etc.) 2016-12-11T19:56:43Z wasamasa: is there any scheme where that wouldn't be the case? 2016-12-11T19:57:33Z edgar-rft: yes, the color-scheme for my monitor for example... 2016-12-11T19:57:44Z C-Keen: ertes: you probably need to write them in almost any scheme, use one with an easy FFI to C. CHICKEN's one of those 2016-12-11T19:57:50Z ertes: edgar-rft: i don't necessarily need a scheme *shell*, just a replacement for shell scripts that is more of a (sane) programming language 2016-12-11T19:59:11Z ertes: C-Keen: is chicken the only one? what about racket? as far as i understand currently racket is the one with the best abstraction capabilities (i would like that) 2016-12-11T19:59:32Z ertes: (i understand that racket is not truly a scheme) 2016-12-11T20:01:07Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:03:41Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:06:55Z C-Keen: ertes: no it is of course not the only one 2016-12-11T20:07:40Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:07:40Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-11T20:07:40Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:08:39Z ertes: i'll try chicken and scsh first… thanks for your inputs! 2016-12-11T20:11:18Z lemonpie: i'll be honest, i find the file/directory access procedures in chez to be superior to chicken's and that would probably be a key feature i'd be looking for in replacing shell script 2016-12-11T20:12:11Z ertes: lemonpie: never heard of that one… i'll check it out, thanks 2016-12-11T20:16:48Z ecraven: I think most Schemes have at least halfway decent FFIs, so just use whichever seems best to you :) 2016-12-11T20:17:09Z lemonpie: you'll probably find you end up installing all the schemes and never be able to decide one specific 'best' version (well, at least until r7rs-l unites us all and we all live in bliss and perfect happiness with prefectly consistant and usable functions 2016-12-11T20:17:20Z wasamasa: nah 2016-12-11T20:17:34Z wasamasa: r7rs-large will just make us realize that having dozens of SRFIs doesn't save us either 2016-12-11T20:17:52Z ecraven: r8rs-large will be it! 2016-12-11T20:18:50Z ertes: ecraven: i'm tempted to use racket above all others =) 2016-12-11T20:19:13Z lemonpie: nothing wrong with racket *shrug* 2016-12-11T20:19:14Z ertes: it comes with an emacs mode that has a built-in REPL at the very least 2016-12-11T20:19:26Z ertes: (racket-mode from MELPA) 2016-12-11T20:19:30Z wasamasa wonders when rnrs and clhs will converge 2016-12-11T20:19:40Z rszeno joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:19:43Z wasamasa: ertes: for the record, M-x run-scheme predates this since like forever 2016-12-11T20:20:01Z wasamasa: 1988! 2016-12-11T20:20:43Z ecraven: ertes: look at geiser 2016-12-11T20:20:47Z ecraven: works with a few schemes 2016-12-11T20:20:51Z ecraven: some schemes work with SLIME 2016-12-11T20:20:54Z ertes: wasamasa: ideally i'd like to have an experience similar to haskell-interactive-mode, which loads haskell files and uses a GHCi process for evaluation, completion, types, etc. 2016-12-11T20:21:02Z ertes: not sure if racket-mode is such an experience 2016-12-11T20:21:12Z ecraven: geiser is that 2016-12-11T20:21:13Z wasamasa: well, it's hopefully closer to it than M-x run-scheme 2016-12-11T20:21:15Z ecraven: I don't know racket-mode 2016-12-11T20:21:45Z lemonpie: i could never quite get past the disjoin between ghci and ghc syntax differences 2016-12-11T20:21:59Z ertes: yeah, the README of racket-mode also told me that if i'd have used other schemes before, i might prefer geiser 2016-12-11T20:22:00Z lemonpie: it reminded me all too well of the similar disjoint in ML 2016-12-11T20:22:20Z ecraven: lemonpie: most Schemes don't have that 2016-12-11T20:22:26Z lemonpie: ecraven: i know :) 2016-12-11T20:22:31Z ertes: lemonpie: which syntax difference are you referring to? 2016-12-11T20:22:42Z ecraven: though some have differences between interpreted vs. compiled 2016-12-11T20:22:55Z lemonpie: ertes: off the top of my head, i don't recall, but they were really minor stuff like needing ;s in some situations in ghci 2016-12-11T20:23:26Z lemonpie: it was a trivial issue, but just enough to make it awkward converting between compiled code and repl 2016-12-11T20:24:07Z ertes: lemonpie: in haskell we rely heavily on extensions, and some authors don't put extensions per-file, but project-wide, which may require you to use :set… it's generally discouraged, and without that GHC-compiled and GHC-interpreted haskell are pretty much exactly the same language 2016-12-11T20:24:27Z ertes: even in the presence of FFI, threads and other edge cases 2016-12-11T20:26:12Z lemonpie: ertes, note i'm basing a lot of this on haskell/ghc circa 2006 when i evaluated my interest in it :) 2016-12-11T20:26:54Z lemonpie: apparently multi-line input in ghci is possible now, and that was probably a huge part of what I remember as a disjoint 2016-12-11T20:27:56Z ertes: lemonpie: ah yeah, but the multi-line syntax is awkward (it requires special syntax)… in general you should load a file (or limit yourself to single-line expressions) 2016-12-11T20:28:21Z robotoad quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-11T20:31:47Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-11T20:35:27Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-11T20:45:40Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-11T20:46:12Z nchambers is now known as god 2016-12-11T20:51:01Z ertes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-11T20:52:55Z ertes joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:53:30Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:53:32Z ertes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-11T20:54:08Z ertes joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:54:30Z ertes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-11T20:55:08Z ertes joined #scheme 2016-12-11T20:55:28Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-11T21:04:15Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-11T21:06:59Z mumptai joined #scheme 2016-12-11T21:11:34Z rgrinberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-11T21:11:40Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-11T21:16:31Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-11T21:21:41Z enderby joined #scheme 2016-12-11T21:25:13Z noethics joined #scheme 2016-12-11T21:27:21Z ertes: ok, racket lost… the interpreter has a long start-up delay, and the native-code compiled executable is 6.4 MiB (and the compiler takes ages to produce it) 2016-12-11T21:29:38Z ertes: geiser is pleasant though 2016-12-11T21:33:16Z noethics: 6.4mb including the runtime doesnt seembad 2016-12-11T21:33:42Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-11T21:35:43Z ertes: noethics: sure, but then i could just as well use haskell… i'm basically looking for a smaller alternative for systems programming (as a replacement for stuff i currently do with shell scripts or makefiles) 2016-12-11T21:36:44Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-11T21:36:46Z noethics: try rust 2016-12-11T21:37:26Z ertes: how well does rust support functional paradigms? 2016-12-11T21:37:39Z noethics: really well 2016-12-11T21:37:49Z noethics: has pattern matching and enums and things 2016-12-11T21:38:58Z ertes: also how well is the interactive experience, especially with emacs? 2016-12-11T21:39:03Z ertes: s/well/good/ 2016-12-11T21:39:12Z noethics: probably bad 2016-12-11T21:39:33Z noethics: think C with a much better language 2016-12-11T21:40:55Z tm512 quit (Quit: Just relax and enjoy this pleasant adventure) 2016-12-11T21:42:56Z ertes: hmm 2016-12-11T21:43:10Z civodul joined #scheme 2016-12-11T21:47:27Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-11T21:47:56Z qu1j0t3: +1 hearing lots of good things about Rust and a C replacement is overdue 2016-12-11T21:51:24Z ertes: that doesn't really say anything about rust, but i never considered C to be a good choice for shell scripting =) 2016-12-11T21:52:27Z qu1j0t3: maybe it's worth a try 2016-12-11T21:53:02Z noethics: C is a perfect replacement for shell scripting :o 2016-12-11T21:53:50Z qu1j0t3: o_O 2016-12-11T21:53:52Z noethics: it's better in every way 2016-12-11T21:53:54Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-11T21:54:07Z noethics: can you give your definition of shell scripting 2016-12-11T21:54:35Z nisstyre: first you need a shell, which C isn't 2016-12-11T21:54:50Z nisstyre: unless your definition of a shell is that it can do system calls 2016-12-11T21:54:51Z noethics: you don't need a shell to replace shell scripting 2016-12-11T21:54:59Z noethics: that makes nosense 2016-12-11T21:55:12Z nisstyre: ok 2016-12-11T21:56:22Z noethics: you either have a shell that you can script or you don't 2016-12-11T21:58:57Z ertes: noethics: i'll just put it this way: typically a shell script of n lines of code will be somewhere around 10*n and 100*n of C code 2016-12-11T21:59:48Z noethics: what shell do you use 2016-12-11T21:59:54Z ertes: zsh 2016-12-11T22:00:39Z noethics: i think your figures are unrealistic 2016-12-11T22:00:57Z noethics: but you want it to be small and self contained 2016-12-11T22:01:08Z noethics: so really C or something from the C family is your best option 2016-12-11T22:01:42Z ertes: noethics: i'm sorry, but i really don't want to code in C… the absolute minimum abstraction capability i want is functional programming 2016-12-11T22:02:01Z noethics: lol 2016-12-11T22:02:20Z noethics: anyway my recommendation was rust for you 2016-12-11T22:03:11Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-11T22:04:40Z ertes: yeah, i'll check it out… although i have to admit that my inner voice keeps saying: "dude, just use haskell! it's good enough!" =) 2016-12-11T22:04:45Z ertes: and it's getting louder 2016-12-11T22:05:02Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:05:17Z noethics: you must love monads :3 2016-12-11T22:05:53Z ertes: i don't know how to respond to that 2016-12-11T22:06:18Z noethics: to love haskell is to be one with the monad 2016-12-11T22:06:28Z noethics: so it makes perfect sense that you don't know how to respond 2016-12-11T22:08:12Z ertes: my relationship to monads is the same as a C programmer's relationship to pointers =) 2016-12-11T22:08:40Z noethics: pointers are always the same construct 2016-12-11T22:09:16Z noethics: monads always avoid the language's inadequacies in new and exciting ways 2016-12-11T22:09:45Z ertes: i think you're misunderstanding monads… they're really just a generic API =) 2016-12-11T22:09:55Z ertes: nothing fancy about them 2016-12-11T22:10:16Z mikeyhc: a monad is simply a computational context 2016-12-11T22:10:26Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-11T22:10:26Z noethics: not so much in haskell 2016-12-11T22:10:39Z noethics: look at IO monad, ST monad 2016-12-11T22:11:00Z noethics: they almost always do some performUnsafeIO under the hood 2016-12-11T22:11:26Z ertes: not so much in haskell, and even not so much in category theory, where they came from… metaphors don't really help 2016-12-11T22:11:29Z noethics: unsafePerformIO* 2016-12-11T22:11:33Z mikeyhc: from an API point of view they are juct contexts for your computation though, the implementation is irrelevant 2016-12-11T22:11:34Z ertes: they are a compositional API 2016-12-11T22:11:52Z ertes: they are in a way just fancy monoids 2016-12-11T22:12:23Z noethics: i understand what you're saying 2016-12-11T22:13:52Z noethics: what would haskell look like without monad? 2016-12-11T22:14:52Z ertes: noethics: you would lose do-notation, which is syntactic sugar for monadic composition 2016-12-11T22:15:08Z ertes: monads themselves are actually defined in a library… they're not a language feature 2016-12-11T22:15:12Z noethics: which only applies to the IO monad 2016-12-11T22:15:22Z noethics: what if IO wasnt a monad either 2016-12-11T22:15:28Z ertes: nope, you can use do-notation for any monad 2016-12-11T22:15:33Z ertes: IO is a monad 2016-12-11T22:15:33Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-11T22:15:38Z noethics: you can use do notation outside of IO monad? 2016-12-11T22:15:45Z noethics: do you know the semantics of do notation? 2016-12-11T22:15:46Z ertes: you're asking: what if 2 weren't even? well, 2 is even =) 2016-12-11T22:15:52Z ertes: sure 2016-12-11T22:16:05Z noethics: do you know what would happen if everything wasn't in io monad and you tried to use do notation? 2016-12-11T22:16:31Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:16:54Z ertes: (do x <- [1..3]; y <- [10,20,30]; pure (x + y)) = [11,21,31,12,22,32,13,23,33] 2016-12-11T22:17:08Z ertes: for [] it's just another notation for list comprehensions 2016-12-11T22:17:16Z noethics: okay. 2016-12-11T22:17:30Z ertes: 'do' is purely syntactic… it translates to the monadic API 2016-12-11T22:17:40Z noethics: it only *works* inside the io monad 2016-12-11T22:17:47Z ertes: yeah 2016-12-11T22:18:01Z noethics: this is pointless 2016-12-11T22:18:15Z noethics: like putting a pillar in a wall 2016-12-11T22:18:16Z ertes: huh? i think i misunderstood your question 2016-12-11T22:18:21Z ertes: no, it works for any monad, not just IO 2016-12-11T22:18:39Z ertes: fire up GHCi and type the expression i just gave you 2016-12-11T22:19:13Z ertes: also look at its type to verify that there is no IO in sight =) 2016-12-11T22:19:21Z ertes: (prefix it by :t) 2016-12-11T22:21:03Z ertes: since list comprehensions and do-notation are almost the same thing just written differently there is even a language extension called MonadComprehensions… that generalises list comprehensions to any monad 2016-12-11T22:21:25Z noethics: what context are you in when you start up GHCi? 2016-12-11T22:21:39Z ertes: "context"? 2016-12-11T22:21:48Z noethics: what code has been assumed for you 2016-12-11T22:21:56Z noethics: before you get to enter the prompt 2016-12-11T22:22:12Z ertes: the Prelude module is loaded by default, which is a subset of the base library 2016-12-11T22:22:38Z ertes: it exposes basic things like the basic numeric types, some fancier types, basic arithmetic, etc. 2016-12-11T22:22:43Z noethics: https://downloads.haskell.org/~ghc/latest/docs/html/users_guide/ghci.html#using-do-notation-at-the-prompt 2016-12-11T22:23:34Z ertes: ah… GHCi looks at the type of your expression first… if it's an IO action, it runs it; if not, it just evaluates it and prints the resulting value 2016-12-11T22:23:35Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-12-11T22:23:56Z ertes: it also emulates do-notation to some extent, so you can write something like: x <- readFile "blah.txt" 2016-12-11T22:24:16Z ertes: that runs the action (readFile "blah.txt") and names its result x 2016-12-11T22:25:20Z noethics: can anything safe be useful outside of io monad with do notation? 2016-12-11T22:25:34Z XTL quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-11T22:26:13Z XTL joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:26:17Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:26:32Z ertes: sure: i use it sometimes with Maybe: do x <- readMaybe str1; y <- readMaybe str2; pure (x + y) 2016-12-11T22:26:59Z noethics: and then what 2016-12-11T22:27:16Z ertes: readMaybe is a function that parses a string into a variety of types, but it may fail, if the string cannot be parsed 2016-12-11T22:27:26Z noethics: okay 2016-12-11T22:27:54Z ertes: the above expression means: parse the two strings, call the results x and y respectively, but if either of them fail, everything fails 2016-12-11T22:28:00Z noethics: i know. 2016-12-11T22:28:23Z ertes: this is a really simplistic example just to demonstrate the idea 2016-12-11T22:28:32Z noethics: you still didn't answer my question 2016-12-11T22:28:39Z ertes: then i didn't understand it 2016-12-11T22:28:39Z noethics: after the computation, then what 2016-12-11T22:29:01Z ertes: well, at some point i need to branch on whether it was successful or not 2016-12-11T22:29:11Z noethics: and then what 2016-12-11T22:29:23Z ertes: then i might print it? what's the question? 2016-12-11T22:29:56Z noethics: actually a side question 2016-12-11T22:30:22Z noethics: does that code you showed there count as referentially transparent 2016-12-11T22:30:51Z ertes: everything in haskell does, except some functions marked "unsafe" in their name (yes, even IO) 2016-12-11T22:31:07Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-11T22:32:06Z noethics: how can anything with readMaybe be referentially transparent 2016-12-11T22:32:17Z noethics: i must not understand ;D 2016-12-11T22:32:32Z ertes: maybe you misunderstand referential transparency itself =) 2016-12-11T22:32:41Z noethics: that's what i meant 2016-12-11T22:32:45Z ertes: it basically means that every "=" in haskell is an actual equation 2016-12-11T22:32:58Z ertes: so you can use the basic laws of equations for reasoning (called equational reasoning) 2016-12-11T22:33:52Z noethics: i know that at surface value 2016-12-11T22:34:19Z noethics: i haven't written enough haskell to understand how it's significant i think 2016-12-11T22:34:40Z ertes: example: you can formulate a system of equations and solve for individual variables… the result is a program 2016-12-11T22:34:42Z noethics: because readMaybe which could be Nothing could cause another impure actually to occur or not occur 2016-12-11T22:35:09Z noethics: impure action* 2016-12-11T22:35:50Z noethics: so does the fact that it's predicating on a pure action not matter for impure branches 2016-12-11T22:36:07Z noethics: ie. it's referentially transparent up until something unsafe 2016-12-11T22:36:15Z noethics: or is the whole thing unsafe 2016-12-11T22:37:29Z ertes: let me answer that through a digression: in cryptography a law of secure digital signatures is that no invalid signatures exist… existence of invalid signatures means that the signature scheme is insecure 2016-12-11T22:37:32Z ertes: does that make sense? 2016-12-11T22:37:50Z noethics: yes 2016-12-11T22:38:14Z ertes: something similar applies to haskell: all values are pure (IO actions are just values in haskell) 2016-12-11T22:38:33Z ertes: (if anyone minds the off-topic discussion, just make some noise) =) 2016-12-11T22:38:55Z mrowe joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:38:59Z wasamasa: I'm still curious how exactly C is a scripting language 2016-12-11T22:39:11Z noethics: no one said it was a scripting language 2016-12-11T22:39:23Z noethics: someone (me) said it was an excellent replacement for one 2016-12-11T22:39:29Z wasamasa: well, no 2016-12-11T22:39:40Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:39:47Z wasamasa: I'd spend a ton more time to get things working as well as in my weapon of choice 2016-12-11T22:39:57Z wasamasa: which defeats the purpose of using a scripting language 2016-12-11T22:40:26Z noethics: [an excellent replacement for one given space constraints or realtime constraints] 2016-12-11T22:41:13Z ertes: i think "language suitable for administrative programming" is a less ambiguous term than "scripting language" 2016-12-11T22:41:20Z wasamasa: definitely 2016-12-11T22:41:31Z ovenpasta joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:41:42Z wasamasa: anyway, I don't want to discourage anyone from using tcc in the shebang 2016-12-11T22:41:47Z ertes: by "administraive" i mean: stuff like firing up programs, shoving files around, etc. 2016-12-11T22:42:03Z noethics: why do you want to replace zsh for that 2016-12-11T22:43:05Z karswell` joined #scheme 2016-12-11T22:43:15Z ertes: noethics: 1. the programming experience is terrible (all i get is syntax highlighting, completion and perhaps easy access to man pages) 2016-12-11T22:43:39Z noethics: i took your question and context to mean: i'm working on constrained hardware and won't have access to my beloved zsh 2016-12-11T22:43:45Z ertes: 2. the language is terrible (it feels like PHP, except that it's even harder to memorise the countless syntax special cases and inconsistencies) 2016-12-11T22:43:52Z ertes: 3. no abstraction capability 2016-12-11T22:44:06Z ertes: oh, no, that's not the reason 2016-12-11T22:44:27Z noethics: so you're not constrained by size? 2016-12-11T22:44:34Z ertes: nope 2016-12-11T22:44:43Z noethics: so why again can't you use racket 2016-12-11T22:44:57Z ertes: because it has no advantage over haskell 2016-12-11T22:45:06Z wasamasa: oh well 2016-12-11T22:45:08Z noethics: the advantage you're looking for is binary size? 2016-12-11T22:45:28Z wasamasa: just how slow is racket to boot? 2016-12-11T22:45:35Z noethics: no idea 2016-12-11T22:45:55Z wasamasa: it's a noticable hickup, but then it proceeds normally 2016-12-11T22:46:06Z mikeyhc: 0m0.148s on my machine 2016-12-11T22:46:11Z wasamasa: python and ruby are faster 2016-12-11T22:46:19Z wasamasa: csi is instant 2016-12-11T22:46:19Z noethics: :| 2016-12-11T22:46:30Z wasamasa: same with guile 2016-12-11T22:46:35Z wasamasa: and pil 2016-12-11T22:47:28Z wasamasa: my guess is that it depends just how much they load upfront 2016-12-11T22:47:40Z ertes: haskell generally needs some setup effort to get something going, and you'd really want to compile it, because GHCi takes too long to boot (a small fraction of a second, but it builds up, if you use the program in a loop) 2016-12-11T22:47:47Z wasamasa: cljs and racket are much more noticable because they set up more stuff 2016-12-11T22:48:37Z ertes: there are a few libraries to make haskell more suitable for scripting (shorter function names, less imports, etc.)… maybe i should just use those 2016-12-11T22:49:02Z noethics: rust's startup time is almost as good as C's fwiw ; 2016-12-11T22:49:14Z noethics: aka nil 2016-12-11T22:50:39Z noethics: and rust macros are very scheme-like 2016-12-11T23:06:40Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-11T23:11:58Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-11T23:12:57Z groscoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-11T23:16:54Z rgrinberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-11T23:19:46Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-11T23:19:46Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-11T23:19:46Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-11T23:24:24Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-11T23:28:33Z god is now known as nchambers 2016-12-11T23:30:35Z mumptai quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2016-12-11T23:31:04Z karswell` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-11T23:32:53Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-11T23:40:24Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-11T23:40:56Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-11T23:43:07Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-11T23:44:07Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-11T23:45:26Z Menche quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-11T23:45:44Z nchambers left #scheme 2016-12-11T23:48:49Z daviid joined #scheme 2016-12-11T23:49:37Z aeth: Shorter function names are dangerous. It makes you more likely to do something that you don't want to do with a simple one character typo instead of getting an error message. 2016-12-11T23:49:37Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1)) 2016-12-11T23:49:47Z aeth: Instead, people should get used to things like auto-complete. 2016-12-11T23:50:39Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-11T23:50:52Z aeth: e.g. In a POSIX shell, if you for some reason accidentally type >> when you mean > you just accidentally wiped the file you wanted to append to. 2016-12-11T23:51:04Z aeth: oh sorry, the other way around. Accidental > instead of >> 2016-12-11T23:57:03Z TCZ: :) 2016-12-12T00:00:29Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-12T00:04:30Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-12T00:13:44Z TCZ: what is meaning of "ynaq" in nethack 2016-12-12T00:13:48Z TCZ: yes no 2016-12-12T00:13:54Z TCZ: and? 2016-12-12T00:15:00Z aeth: quit? 2016-12-12T00:15:15Z TCZ: ok maybe q is quit 2016-12-12T00:15:18Z TCZ: so what is a 2016-12-12T00:15:20Z TCZ: ? 2016-12-12T00:15:28Z aeth: it might just be and, idk 2016-12-12T00:15:32Z TCZ: k 2016-12-12T00:15:34Z aeth: But q is probably quit because that's what quit is in ed 2016-12-12T00:15:37Z aeth: and vim 2016-12-12T00:15:40Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T00:15:42Z aeth: But vim just copied ed 2016-12-12T00:16:08Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-12T00:16:29Z aeth: ed, the standard text editor 2016-12-12T00:17:59Z enderby quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T00:18:11Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-12-12T00:18:17Z aeth: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.txt 2016-12-12T00:19:28Z fizzie: TCZ: yes, no, all, quit. 2016-12-12T00:19:52Z TCZ: tthanks 2016-12-12T00:19:54Z TCZ: ;) 2016-12-12T00:32:44Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T00:49:43Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:06:01Z shdeng joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:16:46Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-12T01:19:12Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T01:23:30Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:23:30Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-12T01:23:30Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:24:45Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:30:13Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-12T01:32:23Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T01:32:28Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:32:56Z terpri joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:42:50Z m1dnight_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-12-12T01:44:37Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:46:04Z m1dnight_ joined #scheme 2016-12-12T01:59:19Z noethics quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-12T02:01:32Z lexicall joined #scheme 2016-12-12T02:02:17Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-12T02:02:57Z lexicall quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-12T02:04:08Z Jameser joined #scheme 2016-12-12T02:05:04Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei) 2016-12-12T02:07:34Z shymega quit (Quit: (DEFUN LISPISGOD () (LISPISGOD))) 2016-12-12T02:11:41Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-12T02:15:53Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T02:16:17Z groscoe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-12T02:16:50Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-12T02:17:54Z shymega joined #scheme 2016-12-12T02:24:01Z adu joined #scheme 2016-12-12T02:26:13Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T02:26:18Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-12T02:30:12Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-12T02:31:10Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-12T02:37:01Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-12T02:45:38Z adu quit (Quit: adu) 2016-12-12T02:46:37Z shdeng joined #scheme 2016-12-12T03:00:42Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-12T03:00:57Z shdeng joined #scheme 2016-12-12T03:08:22Z turtleman quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T03:18:16Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T03:19:34Z ArneBab joined #scheme 2016-12-12T03:19:34Z ArneBab quit (Changing host) 2016-12-12T03:19:34Z ArneBab joined #scheme 2016-12-12T03:23:51Z ArneBab_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-12T03:26:50Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T03:31:50Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-12T03:53:12Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T03:57:12Z adu joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:01:54Z arbn joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:02:24Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:04:51Z arbn left #scheme 2016-12-12T04:08:22Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:12:26Z adu quit (Quit: adu) 2016-12-12T04:16:06Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:16:06Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T04:16:29Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:23:39Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:27:37Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T04:32:58Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-12T04:39:43Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-12T08:56:25Z jusss joined #scheme 2016-12-12T08:57:11Z jusss quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-12T09:04:57Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-12T09:06:15Z ecraven: does anyone here know of a nice Scheme syntax for functional update of records? 2016-12-12T09:10:14Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2016-12-12T09:12:48Z ecraven: seems many questions lead to lenses :-/ 2016-12-12T09:13:32Z wasamasa: isn't that haskell's setf? 2016-12-12T09:13:42Z wasamasa: oh wait, you said functional update 2016-12-12T09:14:09Z ventonegro joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:14:57Z ecraven: I'm going with (update-record my-record (name "foo") (age 25)) for now :) 2016-12-12T09:15:08Z ecraven: but a general lenses / optics library would be even better.. another day :) 2016-12-12T09:15:46Z wasamasa: I like clojure's syntax for that, but then, nearly everything there is functional update... 2016-12-12T09:15:56Z ecraven: what is clojure's syntax? 2016-12-12T09:16:27Z wasamasa: records and maps share the same interface, so you (assoc record :foo 1 :bar 2) 2016-12-12T09:16:53Z wasamasa: their update refers to a variant that uses a procedure to change the value 2016-12-12T09:19:10Z wasamasa: so you can (update record :foo inc) and you'll receive a record with an incremented foo field 2016-12-12T09:21:09Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T09:26:03Z choas_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T09:29:20Z ecraven: is there a way to use the old record value when updating? 2016-12-12T09:29:35Z ecraven: something like (update record :foo (+ foo 1))? or do I need to write the full accessor? 2016-12-12T09:29:40Z jusss joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:30:17Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:30:29Z C-Keen: ecraven: well with the inc example above it needs to be handed the old value 2016-12-12T09:31:09Z ecraven: yes, but does clojure provide some simple way to access the old value? or just use record.foo (or whatever clojure uses :) 2016-12-12T09:31:18Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:31:18Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-12T09:31:18Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:32:37Z jusss quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-12T09:33:52Z jusss joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:34:30Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T09:36:11Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-12T09:40:21Z choas joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:47:34Z wasamasa: (:foo record) 2016-12-12T09:47:38Z wasamasa: alternatively, (get record :foo) 2016-12-12T09:49:35Z greatscottttt joined #scheme 2016-12-12T09:50:58Z wasamasa: people mostly use maps instead of records though 2016-12-12T09:51:36Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2016-12-12T09:51:47Z C-Keen: I like records for their type tag 2016-12-12T09:52:00Z C-Keen: I should use contracts more 2016-12-12T09:58:03Z ecraven: C-Keen: my reason too, with records I can see type mismatches easier 2016-12-12T09:58:13Z ecraven: easilier? :D 2016-12-12T10:01:07Z C-Keen: more easily :) 2016-12-12T10:01:21Z ecraven: that doesn't sound as nice :p 2016-12-12T10:04:05Z C-Keen: ecraven: I guess one could write a macro for this kind of access on top of srfi-99 records 2016-12-12T10:05:09Z ecraven: oh, I've written it for MIT/GNU Scheme, just looking for good syntax for it 2016-12-12T10:10:49Z C-Keen: I see 2016-12-12T10:16:11Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T10:16:29Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-12T10:20:49Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-12T10:31:25Z jusss joined #scheme 2016-12-12T10:32:04Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T10:32:04Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-12T10:32:04Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T10:35:03Z jusss quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-12T10:37:12Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-12T10:39:06Z ASau` joined #scheme 2016-12-12T10:39:23Z ASau quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T10:46:32Z deank joined #scheme 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ho 2016-12-12T16:51:10Z taylan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T17:04:05Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-12T17:04:36Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:05:35Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:06:12Z dcluna_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-12T17:09:41Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-12T17:10:17Z robotoad quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-12T17:10:21Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:17:57Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:21:10Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei) 2016-12-12T17:25:50Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-12-12T17:25:50Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:27:48Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:27:58Z ventonegro quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 25.1.1) 2016-12-12T17:28:20Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:29:36Z sethalves joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:34:22Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T17:36:37Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:37:09Z pierpa joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:41:02Z aeth: ertes: imo the right way to do it is sort of but no quite the way CL does it 2016-12-12T17:41:27Z aeth: mainly because CL doesn't quite handle it in a standard way, and the better way (that SBCL uses) is not the more common way it's done 2016-12-12T17:42:18Z aeth: i.e. First, don't declare any types. It gets written faster. Then declare types. It'll type-check by default, or assume types if optimization is requested. This is sort of how SBCL does it, but the other CLs afaik assume types on all optimization levels when you declare types. 2016-12-12T17:42:34Z aeth: The CL syntax is pretty bad for this, though, imo. 2016-12-12T17:42:43Z aeth: s/no quite/not quite/ 2016-12-12T17:43:09Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:43:16Z aeth: I think Python 3 is doing something similar now, too, but I'm not quite sure about the details because I haven't used Python deeply in years. 2016-12-12T17:46:25Z aeth: Another issue with the way CL does it is the way fixnum vs integer works in CL, including that there's no standard fixnum size (64-bit fixnums could be 63 bit signed ints, or 62, or 61, or 60, etc. And Clisp's is 49 for some reason) 2016-12-12T17:53:15Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-12T17:53:52Z ertes: aeth: i mean static types more as an abstraction/expression system than a safety feature 2016-12-12T17:53:59Z ertes: safety/speed feature 2016-12-12T18:05:27Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T18:07:09Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-12T18:12:15Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T18:12:32Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-12T18:12:36Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T18:14:36Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-12T18:16:42Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T18:17:20Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T18:17:30Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-12T18:20:47Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-12T18:26:48Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-12T18:26:56Z taylan joined #scheme 2016-12-12T18:38:39Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-12T18:46:02Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-12T18:49:21Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-12T19:01:14Z ecraven: I've heard erlang has some good type inference for modules, but that was years ago... not sure where that went 2016-12-12T19:04:45Z asumu quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2016-12-12T19:05:01Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:07:13Z edgar-rft joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:19:31Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:22:14Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:25:57Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-12T19:26:23Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:26:55Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-12T19:29:24Z asumu joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:31:21Z neoncontrails quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T19:39:26Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:41:15Z TheLemonMan joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:41:57Z turtleman joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:44:06Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-12T19:45:39Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:45:59Z enderby quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-12T19:51:03Z jcowan joined #scheme 2016-12-12T19:55:37Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-12T20:03:24Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-12T20:07:43Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-12T20:07:44Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-12T20:15:52Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-12T20:23:18Z enderby joined #scheme 2016-12-12T20:26:38Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2016-12-12T20:32:37Z aeth quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-12T20:34:22Z aeth joined #scheme 2016-12-12T20:52:29Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-12T20:53:26Z jcowan joined #scheme 2016-12-12T20:55:51Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-12T20:59:49Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-12T21:02:19Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-12T21:04:13Z dcluna joined #scheme 2016-12-12T21:19:12Z rgrinberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-12T21:21:26Z neoncontrails quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T21:33:30Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-12T21:44:07Z qu1j0t3: Dialyzer? 2016-12-12T21:44:16Z qu1j0t3: if I were writing Erlang, I'd be using it 2016-12-12T21:44:37Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-12T21:47:28Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T21:47:28Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-12T21:47:28Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T21:52:08Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-12T21:56:55Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-12T22:01:06Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-12T22:04:41Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-12T22:05:14Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-12T22:08:15Z ecraven: might be that.. I don't quite remember, I met a guy on a conference many years ago, he talked about that. sounded very interesting, at the time I thought it might be applied to Scheme as well 2016-12-12T22:08:30Z ecraven: but I never actually looked into it very closely :-/ 2016-12-12T22:09:07Z ecraven: something about running lots of type inference on non-exported functions in a module, or specializing them based on which arguments they were called with 2016-12-12T22:10:25Z qu1j0t3: i think it was a project of Kostas Sagonis(?) - it does local inference and type checking too, afaik. and a lot of mechanical source simplications 2016-12-12T22:10:33Z ecraven: ah, that name sounds familiar 2016-12-12T22:11:14Z ecraven: I should look into what became of it :) and whether something similar would be of benefit to a Scheme implementation 2016-12-12T22:13:41Z ecraven: yea, it was Kostis Sagonas 2016-12-12T22:16:03Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-12T22:16:58Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-12T22:17:11Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-12T22:18:13Z jlongster quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:09:32Z aeth: I suppose certain kinds of macros, especially Lisps with reader macros, could also interfere with a structure based revision control system. 2016-12-13T20:09:43Z ovenpasta: aeth: it's time for a s-expr based diff :) 2016-12-13T20:10:08Z aeth: ovenpasta: the main problem is probably going to be comments 2016-12-13T20:10:26Z ovenpasta: aeth: yeh that will be painful :) 2016-12-13T20:10:42Z ecraven: just use #; (comment ...) for comments :p 2016-12-13T20:10:44Z ovenpasta: but #;( kind of comments can save us) 2016-12-13T20:10:46Z ovenpasta: hehe 2016-12-13T20:10:48Z ovenpasta: yep 2016-12-13T20:11:14Z ovenpasta: I was thinking about some documentation system for my scheme stuff 2016-12-13T20:11:21Z ovenpasta: there is something generic/standard? 2016-12-13T20:11:25Z aeth: An s-expression diff would work well, though. No fighting over formatting. Format it however you want as a separate stage. 2016-12-13T20:11:50Z ovenpasta: aeth: then the next step is a scheme written dvcs 2016-12-13T20:12:09Z ovenpasta: aeth: I was thinking about something similar to fossil 2016-12-13T20:12:48Z aeth: The problem is that it would only be useful for Scheme (and of course Racket) and maybe CL and *maybe* Clojure 2016-12-13T20:13:21Z aeth: (I guess elisp too) 2016-12-13T20:13:24Z aeth: So you couldn't even store a lot of Lisps in there that have at least some parts written in C or C++ 2016-12-13T20:13:29Z aeth: And makefiles etc 2016-12-13T20:13:41Z ecraven: doesn't git support multiple diff programs? 2016-12-13T20:13:59Z ecraven: maybe even per file type? 2016-12-13T20:14:00Z aeth: ecraven: multiple diff programs in the same repository? 2016-12-13T20:14:11Z aeth: ecraven: That would be the easiest solution, certainly. Just plug it into git somehow. 2016-12-13T20:14:26Z gnomon: ecraven, rerere 2016-12-13T20:16:30Z ovenpasta: or just write a wrapper that uses different diff based on file type 2016-12-13T20:16:41Z ecraven: ovenpasta: that's what I found others use 2016-12-13T20:16:45Z jlongster quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-13T20:17:02Z aeth: oh, quite a few purely-in-Lisp-or-Scheme programs have .md or .txt or .tex, etc., documentation files 2016-12-13T20:17:19Z aeth: So even if it's purely in s-expressions you'll have to handle text 2016-12-13T20:17:21Z ecraven: .org! 2016-12-13T20:17:39Z aeth: ecraven: .tex might be more common than .org :-p 2016-12-13T20:17:47Z aeth: ecraven: but org is probably #4 or #3 2016-12-13T20:17:49Z cemerick quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-13T20:18:12Z ecraven: skribe was nice: http://www-sop.inria.fr/mimosa/fp/Skribe/index.html#Skribe-Home-Page-The-functional-authoring-language 2016-12-13T20:18:12Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-13T20:18:25Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:18:41Z enderby joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:18:50Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:20:27Z aeth: It's amazing how one site, Github, probably made .md the most common documentation format in the world 2016-12-13T20:20:51Z aeth: well, at least after plain text (or maybe even including plain text at this point, who knows?) 2016-12-13T20:22:03Z gnomon: aeth, I rather imagine HTML still holds a slight edge. 2016-12-13T20:22:28Z aeth: There are other almost-equivalent formats like reStructuredText and org, but Markdown wins 2016-12-13T20:22:38Z aeth: gnomon: I think most HTML is probably generated from some other intermediate form 2016-12-13T20:23:06Z aeth: gnomon: e.g. Javadoc... which is probably still more common than markdown, although I'm not sure 2016-12-13T20:23:28Z gnomon: aeth, sure, OK, if you say so. 2016-12-13T20:23:46Z aeth: gnomon: do you know anyone who writes direct HTML as a form of documentation? 2016-12-13T20:23:50Z aeth: It was probably much more common in the 1990s 2016-12-13T20:24:54Z tlfalcon joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:25:05Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:25:25Z aeth: I thought the whole point of something like org or rst or md is that you can view it on the web as HTML or read the file directly in a text editor or IDE as if it was plain text... so technically all of these are targeting HTML, although some also target PDF. 2016-12-13T20:25:45Z ovenpasta: aeth: sxml could fit somewhere 2016-12-13T20:25:45Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-13T20:25:45Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-13T20:26:20Z aeth: I'm surprised SXML has its own Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SXML 2016-12-13T20:27:18Z aeth: Wikipedia likes deleting obscure things because it can. 2016-12-13T20:27:21Z ovenpasta: btw, nobody knows what happened to sxml tools? 2016-12-13T20:27:24Z ovenpasta: http://modis.ispras.ru/Lizorkin/sxml-tutorial.html seems down 2016-12-13T20:28:40Z aeth: (Interestingly, deletionists deleting obscure Wikipedia articles directly profit the founder of Wikipedia because he also runs the for-profit Wikia.) 2016-12-13T20:30:33Z justinethier: Stack overflow also made markdown popular because you need to use it to include any code in your posts 2016-12-13T20:31:07Z justinethier: also writing md is somewhat easier than html :) 2016-12-13T20:31:14Z aeth: ovenpasta: I think the general trend is to not work directly on structured data, even something like SXML... And just parse documentation (and sometimes comment) text with regexes or something similar to generate things 2016-12-13T20:31:38Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:31:44Z aeth: You *could* probably write documentation in something sufficiently elaborate, though, like CL's FORMAT. ;) 2016-12-13T20:32:22Z aeth: format is probably the #1 thing I miss in Scheme 2016-12-13T20:33:25Z ovenpasta: chez seems to have it 2016-12-13T20:33:46Z ovenpasta: I mean seems that is mostly comformant 2016-12-13T20:34:10Z justinethier: there is http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-28/srfi-28.html 2016-12-13T20:34:22Z ertes joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:34:26Z aeth: Most of the Scheme programming I do is portable Scheme so I miss out on quite a few nice things. 2016-12-13T20:34:54Z ovenpasta: justinethier: that is too basic :) 2016-12-13T20:35:10Z jlongster joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:35:11Z justinethier: ah, fair enough 2016-12-13T20:35:18Z aeth: CL format has things like ~r 2016-12-13T20:35:53Z aeth: (format nil "~r" 123456789) ; "one hundred twenty-three million four hundred fifty-six thousand seven hundred eighty-nine" 2016-12-13T20:36:03Z gwatt: http://cisco.github.io/ChezScheme/csug9.4/io.html#./io:s96 2016-12-13T20:36:13Z gwatt: > Chez Scheme's implementation of format supports all of the Common Lisp [29] format directives except for those specific to the Common Lisp pretty printer. 2016-12-13T20:36:14Z aeth: a CL-compatible format is not an easy thing to do 2016-12-13T20:36:45Z aeth: maybe r7rs-large will have one, though 2016-12-13T20:36:46Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei) 2016-12-13T20:36:47Z ovenpasta: aeth: it could be possible to extract the implementation from chez 2016-12-13T20:36:53Z justinethier: cool 2016-12-13T20:37:17Z justinethier: it seems like it should be possible to write a portable library for this 2016-12-13T20:37:32Z aeth: it should be possible to write a format procedure in portable Scheme, so if there's something like format in r7rs-large, a portable implementation could be brought to r7rs Schemes, which would be nice 2016-12-13T20:37:35Z justinethier: might be a lot of work though... the one in chez would probably be in r6rs too 2016-12-13T20:37:39Z ovenpasta: aeth: also don't forget fmt. it's nice 2016-12-13T20:37:55Z aeth: fmt? 2016-12-13T20:38:06Z ovenpasta: http://synthcode.com/scheme/fmt/ 2016-12-13T20:38:28Z aeth: ah 2016-12-13T20:38:58Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:39:17Z wasamasa: http://api.call-cc.org/doc/format references slib 2016-12-13T20:39:47Z wasamasa: I've come to dislike it after finding out it caused GCs in a tight loop :P 2016-12-13T20:40:19Z aeth: any mostly-compatible Scheme format procedure is probably going to have better documentation than CL's FORMAT function, if only because the canonical CL documentation is web 0.9-alpha2 and the Schemes are at least web 2.0 :-p 2016-12-13T20:40:40Z aeth: wasamasa: then it's not written well enough? 2016-12-13T20:40:49Z wasamasa: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2016-12-13T20:41:03Z jlongster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-13T20:41:08Z justinethier: was this on chicken? 2016-12-13T20:41:10Z aeth: wasamasa: SBCL's FORMAT tends to be very fast, about as fast as doing the equivalent manually, based on some benchmarks I did a while back... at least for most things people would plausibly do 2016-12-13T20:41:18Z aeth: so at least in CL it can be made to be fast 2016-12-13T20:41:39Z wasamasa: justinethier: yeah 2016-12-13T20:41:49Z aeth: too bad I tend to do CL benchmarks in SLIME instead of saving them to a file where I could run them again later or share them 2016-12-13T20:41:50Z jlongster joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:42:06Z ovenpasta: there is also this wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/3/format-modular 2016-12-13T20:42:07Z gwatt: https://github.com/cisco/ChezScheme/blob/master/s/format.ss 2016-12-13T20:42:11Z wasamasa: justinethier: I was in the process of writing bindings to nuklear and ported an example doing some C-style formatting at 60fps 2016-12-13T20:42:27Z wasamasa: justinethier: the example randomly crashed and I eventually figured out this was due to something critical getting garbage-collected 2016-12-13T20:42:39Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:42:39Z aeth: ugh 2016-12-13T20:42:57Z wasamasa: the crash went away after rewriting the formatting code 2016-12-13T20:43:07Z justinethier: interesting 2016-12-13T20:43:08Z aeth: most Schemes seem to have some major gotchas when it comes to gamedev stuff. 2016-12-13T20:43:15Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:43:17Z wasamasa: I've fixed the bug, but am still wary of more complex formatting 2016-12-13T20:43:34Z aeth: I need to finish my scheme->cl (especially sbcl) project 2016-12-13T20:43:50Z aeth: it'll probably lose a lot of clever SBCL optimizations, though. 2016-12-13T20:43:50Z wasamasa: this specific issue is obviously not scheme-specific, it can happen with any language that's not C 2016-12-13T20:44:28Z justinethier: so, format was looking for something that got GC'd? 2016-12-13T20:44:34Z wasamasa: if you don't somehow prevent things that may not be garbage-collected from that fate, you're bound to have crashes once the next GC happens! 2016-12-13T20:44:40Z wasamasa: justinethier: format triggered a GC 2016-12-13T20:44:47Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:44:52Z wasamasa: justinethier: I was able to reproduce the same crash after adding a button triggering a GC immediately 2016-12-13T20:45:13Z wasamasa: I can generally recommend such a button to anyone debugging such stuff 2016-12-13T20:45:35Z justinethier: maybe the GC moved something off the stack, and a ref was invalidated? 2016-12-13T20:45:50Z justinethier: gc button is very handy :) 2016-12-13T20:48:40Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-13T20:48:42Z ovenpasta: gwatt: not bad only 5 syntax-case macros. to be replaced with something more portable (is it possible?). I mean not every implementation supports syntax-case 2016-12-13T20:49:25Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:49:27Z justinethier: the only portable macro system is syntax-rules... 2016-12-13T20:49:46Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-13T20:50:17Z justinethier: but certain macros cannot be ported to it easily 2016-12-13T20:50:28Z Riastradh: The only portable macro system is m4. 2016-12-13T20:50:38Z wasamasa: lol 2016-12-13T20:50:48Z gwatt: heh 2016-12-13T20:50:52Z Riastradh starts counting burst blood vessels. 2016-12-13T20:51:09Z justinethier: hmm 2016-12-13T20:51:22Z gwatt: doing (apropos "syntax-case") in chez says it exists in rnrs 2016-12-13T20:51:47Z wasamasa: justinethier: definitely an invalid reference 2016-12-13T20:52:24Z ovenpasta: and this someone uses? http://people.cs.aau.dk/~normark/laml-distributions/laml/index.html 2016-12-13T20:52:29Z ovenpasta: there is also schemedoc 2016-12-13T20:52:59Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2016-12-13T20:54:03Z ovenpasta: The Scheme Elucidator 2016-12-13T20:54:03Z ovenpasta: Elucidative Programming in Scheme is supported by a tool which we call the Scheme Elucidator. Elucidative programming is a variant of literate programming in which programs and internal documentation is presented in an Internet Browser. The Scheme Elucidator is one of the most substantial LAML-based pieces of software I have written. 2016-12-13T20:54:14Z ovenpasta: this guy has far sight 2016-12-13T20:56:07Z justinethier: wasamasa: when the gc collects an object on the stack it writes a forwarding pointer. if you were able to trap a crash in gdb it might be possible to read in the memory and see what object the code is crashing on (IE, it wants to access the object that was copied). probably a long shot though. not sure how had it is to set that up in chicken 2016-12-13T20:57:21Z wasamasa: justinethier: yeah, that's definitely out of my gdb skill set 2016-12-13T20:59:10Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei) 2016-12-13T20:59:43Z justinethier: wasamasa: fair enough :) 2016-12-13T21:00:07Z gwatt: if you do `ulimit -c unlimited` and then run the crashing code it will save a core dump 2016-12-13T21:00:43Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-13T21:01:03Z ovenpasta: gwatt: yep ulimit is life saver, I've thrashed the computer many times with scheme 2016-12-13T21:03:48Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-13T21:06:33Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-13T21:08:34Z taylan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-13T21:14:31Z jlongster quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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2016-12-14T11:49:14Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-14T11:54:29Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-14T11:55:46Z ecraven: or rather, optional, key, and rest arguments all at once 2016-12-14T11:59:21Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-14T12:03:24Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:05:07Z fgudin quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-14T12:06:00Z fgudin joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:07:44Z teleScope joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:08:14Z pia joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:12:33Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-14T12:19:14Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-14T12:19:36Z gwatt: How often do you want to use them all at the same time? 2016-12-14T12:20:14Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:21:25Z gwatt: I was going to say "I think python's handled that nicely" but I don't actually know how python's optional args interact with the rest args 2016-12-14T12:22:30Z lolcow joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:24:20Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-14T12:28:53Z lolcow quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-14T12:31:21Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-14T12:32:57Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:33:21Z leppie joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:33:29Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-14T12:38:07Z unphased quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-14T12:53:10Z taylan: ecraven: can be implemented just fine AFAIK 2016-12-14T12:53:39Z taylan: a lambda* macro with both optargs and kw args shouldn't be too challenging to implement, making use of either an implementation-dependent keyword object or just symbols 2016-12-14T12:53:54Z taylan: I think Guile does it 2016-12-14T12:54:08Z taylan tries to implement such a thing... 2016-12-14T12:55:44Z gwatt: optargs and keyword args are fine together, it's the rest args that are a problem. Since any rest args are going to supercede the unspecified optargs 2016-12-14T12:57:07Z ecraven: taylan: it's not so much about implementing it, as about using it 2016-12-14T12:57:18Z taylan: well if you want to pass rest args to the function you call, you have to provide dummy values for the optargs, yeah 2016-12-14T12:57:23Z taylan: ecraven: oh I see 2016-12-14T12:57:28Z ecraven: taylan: exactly, that is what I find weird 2016-12-14T12:57:32Z taylan: so the dummy values is what annoys, right? 2016-12-14T12:57:34Z taylan: yeah 2016-12-14T12:57:37Z ecraven: well, weird to use, it behaves exactly as specified 2016-12-14T12:57:56Z ecraven: so actually *using* optional+key+rest seems like a very bad idea? 2016-12-14T12:58:02Z taylan: one could define a special value like !default (or just use #f for it) 2016-12-14T12:58:31Z ecraven: yea, it's still awkward, I'd say 2016-12-14T12:58:37Z taylan: ecraven: keyword is not the issue right? just the combination of opt and rest. I'm pretty sure emacs's elisp codebase uses opt + rest quite frequently 2016-12-14T12:58:38Z ecraven: I'll just stick to not mixing all three 2016-12-14T12:58:54Z taylan: where the default value for optargs is *always* nil in elisp; no way to change that during function definition 2016-12-14T12:58:55Z ecraven: well, opt + rest is *still* ok, unless you sometimes *only* want rest, and not the optionals 2016-12-14T12:59:11Z taylan: so an elisp function call may often look like (foobar nil nil nil blah blah) 2016-12-14T12:59:24Z ecraven: taylan: yes, that is not a good interface, imho :-/ 2016-12-14T12:59:33Z ecraven: emacs has no keyword arguments though, I think? 2016-12-14T12:59:39Z ecraven: otherwise, you wouldn't need all those nils 2016-12-14T12:59:57Z ecraven: maybe optionals become rather less useful if you have keyword arguments? 2016-12-14T13:02:37Z taylan: ecraven: possible to define functions taking kw args using cl-lib I think; there's a kw datatype and reader syntax 2016-12-14T13:03:24Z taylan: see defun* 2016-12-14T13:08:02Z ecraven: yes, but it isn't used widely, it seems. otherwise, I don't think there would be so many optional arguments 2016-12-14T13:12:37Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-14T13:15:55Z lambda-smith quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-14T13:16:23Z alezost joined #scheme 2016-12-14T13:17:03Z leppie joined #scheme 2016-12-14T13:25:50Z ovenpasta joined #scheme 2016-12-14T13:26:00Z taylan: indeed, cl-lib is used sparingly if at all in standard elisp libraries 2016-12-14T13:26:03Z taylan: AFAIK 2016-12-14T13:27:03Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-14T13:34:50Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-14T13:37:37Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-14T13:43:32Z pierpa joined #scheme 2016-12-14T13:58:10Z pia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-14T14:00:56Z ovenpasta joined #scheme 2016-12-14T14:04:00Z unphased joined #scheme 2016-12-14T14:05:37Z daviid joined #scheme 2016-12-14T14:08:44Z unphased quit (Ping 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to jcowan. 2016-12-15T18:40:36Z jcowan joined #scheme 2016-12-15T18:53:50Z Ojd left #scheme 2016-12-15T19:00:11Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei) 2016-12-15T19:00:56Z Ojd joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:02:50Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:11:51Z taylan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-15T19:22:32Z turtleman joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:26:30Z mumptai joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:35:15Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:35:18Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-15T19:37:47Z Ojd left #scheme 2016-12-15T19:41:06Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:46:22Z dcluna quit (Read error: No route to host) 2016-12-15T19:49:23Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:52:24Z ASau joined #scheme 2016-12-15T19:54:24Z ecraven: jcowan: hello ;) 2016-12-15T19:54:37Z ecraven: jcowan: is there any effective difference between srfi 122 and arrayscowan 2016-12-15T19:54:38Z ecraven: 2016-12-15T19:54:51Z ecraven: or do they specify mostly the same array functions 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Finally set up Let's Encrypt on mumble.net. Still not happy with any of the clients, but anyone who has stored links under http://mumble.net/~campbell/ from me can update them to be under https://mumble.net/~campbell/ instead. 2016-12-16T04:48:46Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-16T04:58:42Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-16T05:03:52Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-16T05:19:14Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-16T05:54:32Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-16T05:59:26Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-16T06:02:39Z dmiles joined #scheme 2016-12-16T06:04:32Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-16T06:17:12Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 2016-12-16T06:18:55Z taof joined #scheme 2016-12-16T06:25:59Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-16T06:26:43Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-16T06:29:06Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-16T06:29:40Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-16T06:32:55Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-16T06:36:08Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-16T06:38:03Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-16T06:44:52Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-16T06:54:39Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:00:13Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:03:54Z stepnem joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:04:43Z ASau joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:05:22Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-16T07:08:29Z tessier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-16T07:10:02Z tessier joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:14:43Z rgrinberg quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-16T07:25:11Z taof quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-16T07:29:45Z bboston7 joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:29:50Z ASau quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-16T07:46:08Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-16T07:47:28Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:49:38Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-16T07:51:04Z taylan joined #scheme 2016-12-16T08:00:58Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-16T08:00:58Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-16T08:00:58Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-16T08:01:53Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-16T08:05:50Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-16T08:17:58Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-16T08:21:43Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-16T08:22:08Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-16T08:27:36Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-16T08:29:26Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-16T08:35:17Z ventonegro joined #scheme 2016-12-16T08:35:53Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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Inside OS X: 'The fun thing about the Sandbox kext is that it actually runs a small Scheme interpreter to decide whether to allow something' 2016-12-16T14:43:57Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-16T14:52:06Z Ojd: ecraven: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/mit-scheme.git/tree/?h=release-9.0 2016-12-16T14:52:18Z Ojd: you mean the actual Scheme source 2016-12-16T14:53:35Z enderby joined #scheme 2016-12-16T14:57:01Z ecraven: 9.3 is current, not 9.0 2016-12-16T14:57:10Z ecraven: well, 9.2 is released, 9.3 is in progress 2016-12-16T14:57:45Z M-krsiehl joined #scheme 2016-12-16T14:57:45Z mkmgcom[m] joined #scheme 2016-12-16T15:02:20Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-16T15:05:57Z mlaine quit (Quit: testing) 2016-12-16T15:06:12Z mlaine joined #scheme 2016-12-16T15:13:33Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-16T15:17:03Z Ojd: how would you create a counter? For example, I want to know the number of times a procedure is called. I am thinking of defining some variable, and then use set! to increment it 2016-12-16T15:17:40Z Ojd: but not sure if this is something aligned with "Scheme spirit" 2016-12-16T15:17:56Z Ojd: (you know, everything is a function with no side effects) 2016-12-16T15:23:26Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-16T15:30:07Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-16T15:30:48Z ecraven: Ojd: I would create a function that wrapped counting code around another function 2016-12-16T15:31:58Z araujo joined #scheme 2016-12-16T15:32:27Z ecraven: rudybot: (define (counting fun) (let ((ctr 0)) (lambda x (format #t "function has been called ~a times~%" ctr) (set! ctr (+ ctr 1)) (apply fun x)))) 2016-12-16T15:32:30Z rudybot: ecraven: your sandbox is ready 2016-12-16T15:32:31Z rudybot: ecraven: Done. 2016-12-16T15:32:34Z ecraven: rudybot: (define (f x) (+ x 1)) 2016-12-16T15:32:35Z rudybot: ecraven: Done. 2016-12-16T15:32:37Z ecraven: (define counted-x (counting x)) 2016-12-16T15:32:43Z ecraven: rudybot: (define counted-x (counting x)) 2016-12-16T15:32:43Z rudybot: ecraven: error: x: undefined; cannot reference an identifier before its definition in module: 'program 2016-12-16T15:32:48Z ecraven: rudybot: (define counted-f (counting f)) 2016-12-16T15:32:48Z rudybot: ecraven: Done. 2016-12-16T15:32:53Z ecraven: rudybot: (counted-f 0) 2016-12-16T15:32:53Z rudybot: ecraven: error: format: contract violation expected: string? given: #t argument position: 1st other arguments...: "function has been called ~a times~%" 0 2016-12-16T15:33:05Z gnomon: Ojd, Scheme _supports_ side-effect-free pure-ish programming, but doesn't force you to enforce that discipline; if the effort/benefit ratio doesn't make sense for your particular use case, you're free to be impure. SET!'s in there for a reason, ya know? 2016-12-16T15:33:29Z ecraven: rudybot: (define (counting fun) (let ((ctr 0)) (lambda x (display "function has been called ") (display ctr) (display times~%" ctr) (set! ctr (+ ctr 1)) (apply fun x)))) 2016-12-16T15:33:34Z rudybot: ecraven: I use emacs as a chat client, both for IRC and for muds. Every one in a great while, I accidentally ctr-x-k kill a buffer. Is there a way I can trap that? 2016-12-16T15:33:43Z ecraven: rudybot: (define (counting fun) (let ((ctr 0)) (lambda x (display "function has been called ") (display ctr) (display " times~%") (newline) (set! ctr (+ ctr 1)) (apply fun x)))) 2016-12-16T15:33:43Z rudybot: ecraven: Done. 2016-12-16T15:33:56Z ecraven: rudybot: (define counted-f (counting f)) 2016-12-16T15:33:56Z rudybot: ecraven: Done. 2016-12-16T15:33:58Z ecraven: rudybot: (counted-f 0) 2016-12-16T15:33:59Z rudybot: ecraven: ; Value: 1 2016-12-16T15:34:00Z rudybot: ecraven: ; stdout: "function has been called 0 times~%\n" 2016-12-16T15:34:01Z ecraven: rudybot: (counted-f 0) 2016-12-16T15:34:01Z rudybot: ecraven: ; Value: 1 2016-12-16T15:34:02Z rudybot: ecraven: ; stdout: "function has been called 1 times~%\n" 2016-12-16T15:34:04Z ecraven: rudybot: (counted-f 8) 2016-12-16T15:34:05Z rudybot: ecraven: ; Value: 9 2016-12-16T15:34:06Z rudybot: ecraven: ; stdout: "function has been called 2 times~%\n" 2016-12-16T15:34:13Z ecraven: or even write a macro that does this 2016-12-16T15:42:50Z Ojd: wow, thanks a lot 2016-12-16T15:47:22Z Ojd: I thought that every time you call the function, it created a new ctr variable so I defined ctr outside the wrapping 2016-12-16T15:50:06Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-16T15:55:37Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-16T15:56:08Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-16T15:56:50Z teleScope quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-16T15:59:08Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-16T16:01:14Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-16T16:04:41Z rgrinberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-16T16:06:29Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-16T16:20:26Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei) 2016-12-16T16:21:41Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-16T16:21:44Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-16T16:22:14Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-16T16:22:30Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-16T16:30:59Z greatscottttt quit 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2016-12-16T17:27:47Z taylan joined #scheme 2016-12-16T17:33:08Z sz0 joined #scheme 2016-12-16T17:40:09Z pjb joined #scheme 2016-12-16T17:48:58Z ovenpasta quit (Quit: ovenpasta) 2016-12-16T17:56:02Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-16T18:00:38Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-16T18:02:15Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-16T18:15:19Z ByronJoh1son joined #scheme 2016-12-16T18:15:34Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-16T18:19:08Z ByronJohnson quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-16T18:22:27Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-16T18:23:09Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-16T18:24:22Z ecraven: does anyone know of a purely functional (unit) testing framework for 2016-12-16T18:24:25Z ecraven: Scheme 2016-12-16T18:25:13Z wasamasa: does it need to be a framework? 2016-12-16T18:25:24Z ecraven: no, library, .scm file, whatever ;) 2016-12-16T18:26:21Z wasamasa: hm, I thought the test egg were modeled after a SRFI 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2016-12-18T13:42:44Z ertes: if not i'd have to use a wrapper shell script 2016-12-18T13:44:47Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-18T13:48:53Z ertes: oh! you can have PATH resolution apparently: #! guile \ 2016-12-18T13:49:10Z ertes: i don't know how portable that is, but it's only for me anyway 2016-12-18T13:58:16Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-18T14:01:30Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-18T14:04:51Z UserJosh quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-18T14:17:05Z nilg joined #scheme 2016-12-18T14:25:02Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-18T14:25:58Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-18T14:47:33Z leot quit (Quit: BBL) 2016-12-18T14:54:37Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-18T14:59:54Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-18T15:28:44Z nilg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-18T15:37:23Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-18T15:50:11Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-18T15:54:31Z pjb joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:10:33Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-18T16:12:23Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:14:26Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:22:40Z daviid joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:23:22Z pierpa joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:24:10Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:25:07Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-18T16:25:53Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:29:54Z TheLemonMan quit (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.") 2016-12-18T16:44:13Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-18T16:47:49Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-18T17:08:11Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T17:08:11Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-18T17:08:11Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T17:13:50Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-18T17:20:28Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2016-12-18T17:21:38Z webshinra quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-18T17:21:49Z webshinra joined #scheme 2016-12-18T17:52:24Z tristero quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 2016-12-18T17:53:26Z tristero joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:02:09Z UserJosh joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:04:50Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-18T18:14:17Z neoncontrails quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-18T18:25:32Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-18T18:25:49Z X-Scale joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:25:59Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:37:20Z kuribas joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:42:45Z fantazo joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:43:09Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:44:24Z terpri joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:45:21Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-12-18T18:57:52Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:00:09Z nilg joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:04:50Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-18T19:10:52Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:21:35Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:25:56Z noethics joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:26:08Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-18T19:27:13Z ertesx joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:27:53Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-18T19:27:53Z ertesx is now known as ertes 2016-12-18T19:30:36Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:34:55Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:35:14Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-18T19:41:52Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:41:53Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-18T19:41:53Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:47:53Z ChrisOei quit (Quit: ChrisOei) 2016-12-18T19:49:05Z TheLemonMan joined #scheme 2016-12-18T19:54:03Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-18T20:18:37Z nilg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-18T20:19:04Z X-Scale quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-18T20:19:27Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-18T20:23:35Z terpri quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-18T20:40:32Z X-Scale joined #scheme 2016-12-18T20:46:58Z jlongster joined #scheme 2016-12-18T20:52:21Z groscoe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-18T20:59:39Z leot joined #scheme 2016-12-18T21:00:36Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-18T21:01:56Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2016-12-18T21:04:12Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-18T21:15:28Z jlongster quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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=/ 2016-12-20T12:43:52Z ecraven: =? 2016-12-20T12:46:56Z LeoNerd: I forget how loose the spec is on this regard; if implementations are allowed to make versions that take more than two values 2016-12-20T12:47:04Z LeoNerd: Or even just one - is (eq? x) always true? 2016-12-20T12:48:38Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-20T12:48:45Z ecraven: LeoNerd: I'd say the same arguments apply to = and eq? single argument => #t, any other number, #t if they are all "the same", #f otherwise 2016-12-20T12:49:09Z Menche quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-20T12:49:19Z ecraven: I don't see any reason apart from performance considerations to not make eq? (and all other comparison functions) take any number of arguments 2016-12-20T12:49:37Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-20T12:49:39Z ecraven: (well, actual comparison should only take >=2, not >=0) 2016-12-20T12:50:20Z LeoNerd: Oh quite; I'm sure it could be implemented. I just don't offhand recall what R{5,6,7}RS have to say on the subject 2016-12-20T12:50:28Z LeoNerd: I can't imagine they'd outright-forbid it 2016-12-20T12:51:06Z ecraven: I don't think they say anything, except that eq? is specified to take exactly two arguments 2016-12-20T12:53:56Z UserJosh joined #scheme 2016-12-20T12:57:08Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-20T12:57:37Z ecraven: if I have a syntax-rules expand to another syntax-rules, how do I prevent the inner ellipses from being captured by the outer syntax-rules? 2016-12-20T12:59:09Z FareTower joined #scheme 2016-12-20T12:59:41Z FareTower quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-20T13:00:07Z kuribas joined #scheme 2016-12-20T13:00:34Z FareTower joined #scheme 2016-12-20T13:01:20Z fare__ joined #scheme 2016-12-20T13:02:16Z lritter quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-20T13:02:39Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-20T13:05:03Z FareTower quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-20T13:10:53Z turtleman joined #scheme 2016-12-20T13:18:38Z gwatt: you might need syntax-case 2016-12-20T13:19:19Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-20T13:19:20Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-20T13:20:13Z ecraven: I've "hacked" it now by having syntax-rules expand to er-macro-transformer, but is this really an impossible thing? can you not write macro-defining macros with syntax-ruls 2016-12-20T13:21:50Z cromachina joined #scheme 2016-12-20T13:33:48Z fare__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-20T13:53:47Z greatscottttt joined #scheme 2016-12-20T13:54:35Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:02:10Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-20T14:09:52Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2016-12-20T14:15:48Z cromachina quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-20T14:23:00Z karswell` joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:24:13Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-20T14:25:21Z bogdanm joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:26:25Z gwatt: What are you trying to do? 2016-12-20T14:27:32Z gnomon: gwatt, I'm, like, just trying to get by, man. 2016-12-20T14:27:47Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-20T14:28:16Z gwatt: gnomon: yeah, I get that. But I was actually asking ecraven what he wanted to do with this macro 2016-12-20T14:28:17Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:28:45Z qu1j0t3 snerks 2016-12-20T14:30:54Z gwatt: ecraven: http://scheme.com/tspl4/syntax.html#./syntax:s14 2016-12-20T14:30:57Z gwatt: > In particular, the template (... ...) produces a single ellipsis, .... This allows syntactic extensions to expand into forms containing ellipses, including syntax-rules or syntax-case patterns and templates. 2016-12-20T14:31:03Z ertes joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:35:52Z pierpa joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:45:51Z marcoecc joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:49:50Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:50:57Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:51:41Z oleo joined #scheme 2016-12-20T14:54:40Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-20T14:58:45Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:00:31Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-20T15:08:44Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-20T15:08:58Z TheLemonMan joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:12:56Z teleScope quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-20T15:13:09Z UserJosh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-20T15:13:54Z Khisanth joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:20:01Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:36:29Z jcowan joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:38:56Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:40:32Z rgrinberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-20T15:42:22Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:42:55Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:42:55Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-20T15:42:55Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:44:43Z jlongster joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:47:25Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-20T15:52:14Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-20T15:56:12Z leppie joined #scheme 2016-12-20T15:59:49Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-20T16:06:21Z arbv_ joined #scheme 2016-12-20T16:09:02Z arbv quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-20T16:09:02Z arbv_ is now known as arbv 2016-12-20T16:09:48Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-12-20T16:10:15Z blackwolf joined #scheme 2016-12-20T16:10:28Z daviid joined #scheme 2016-12-20T16:10:35Z enderby joined #scheme 2016-12-20T16:20:34Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-20T16:28:43Z elflng quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2016-12-20T16:30:59Z elflng joined #scheme 2016-12-20T16:44:17Z terpri quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-20T16:48:41Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-20T16:55:13Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1)) 2016-12-20T16:55:23Z ventonegro quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 25.1.1) 2016-12-20T17:00:33Z mumptai joined #scheme 2016-12-20T17:12:32Z greatscottttt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-12-20T17:12:47Z turtleman quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-20T17:18:48Z groscoe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-20T17:28:12Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-20T17:35:04Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-20T17:35:26Z JoshS quit (Disconnected by services) 2016-12-20T17:35:31Z jshjsh is now known as JoshS 2016-12-20T17:36:03Z forgottenpurple quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-20T17:36:32Z webshinra quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-20T17:37:57Z webshinra joined #scheme 2016-12-20T17:38:38Z pie_ joined #scheme 2016-12-20T17:39:52Z leot quit (Quit: BBL) 2016-12-20T17:43:11Z civodul joined #scheme 2016-12-20T17:44:44Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-20T17:45:37Z JoshS quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-20T18:09:10Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-12-20T18:09:24Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-20T18:13:34Z leppie joined #scheme 2016-12-20T18:28:05Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-20T18:28:58Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-20T18:33:05Z sethalves joined #scheme 2016-12-20T18:36:16Z ecraven: gwatt: thanks, I'll try that 2016-12-20T18:38:48Z ecraven: gwatt: that seems to not work in MIT/GNU Scheme :-/ 2016-12-20T18:44:12Z ecraven: on second thought, what I'm trying to do is clearly unhygienic and thus should not work with syntax-rules anyway 2016-12-20T18:46:02Z terpri joined #scheme 2016-12-20T18:46:23Z ecraven: http://paste.lisp.org/display/334514 2016-12-20T18:56:03Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2016-12-20T18:57:19Z renopt quit (Changing host) 2016-12-20T18:57:19Z renopt joined #scheme 2016-12-20T19:00:18Z jlongster quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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I really don't understand syntax-case well enough to write macros :- 2016-12-21T10:35:30Z NaNDude quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-21T10:52:32Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-21T11:16:38Z bjz_ joined #scheme 2016-12-21T11:16:53Z bjz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-21T11:19:42Z bogdanm quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-21T11:22:44Z bjz_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-12-21T11:23:23Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-21T11:28:04Z rmrfchik quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-21T11:28:18Z rmrfchik joined #scheme 2016-12-21T11:31:35Z PinealGlandOptic joined #scheme 2016-12-21T11:34:07Z shdeng quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-21T11:40:04Z novemberist joined #scheme 2016-12-21T11:47:16Z ertesx joined #scheme 2016-12-21T11:48:54Z ecraven: wow, r6rs removed #(...) for vector literals?? 2016-12-21T11:49:30Z ecraven: hm.. seems it did not, just some chez scheme problem ;D 2016-12-21T11:50:29Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-21T11:50:29Z ertesx is now known as ertes 2016-12-21T12:00:02Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:01:20Z forgottenpurple joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:05:28Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-21T12:17:54Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:19:28Z kuribas joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:22:12Z earnestly quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-21T12:24:17Z earnestly joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:29:05Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-21T12:29:51Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:32:34Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:50:19Z ertesx joined #scheme 2016-12-21T12:52:21Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-21T12:52:21Z ertesx is now known as ertes 2016-12-21T13:01:03Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-21T13:28:37Z novemberist quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-12-21T13:31:10Z lemonpie: ecraven: for some reason, i think you have to quote vector literals in chez, so '#(1 2 3) rather than #(1 2 3) 2016-12-21T13:32:13Z ecraven: lemonpie: thank you, I found that in the manual 2016-12-21T13:32:22Z ecraven: haven't used any other scheme that needed this yet :-) 2016-12-21T13:37:25Z teleScope joined #scheme 2016-12-21T13:44:21Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-21T13:49:35Z lemonpie: i recall it being necessary on a couple of schemes back in the r4rs days, but i think vectors weren't official then so it didn't matter that much 2016-12-21T13:50:26Z lemonpie: no, they're listed in the r4rs standard, so i guess chez is just being weird 2016-12-21T13:50:58Z lemonpie: ah... 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and petite, scheme and scheme-script are in PATH 2016-12-21T22:59:42Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-12-21T23:02:31Z bboston7 left #scheme 2016-12-21T23:06:55Z wasamasa: is your geiser recent enough? 2016-12-21T23:11:07Z ertes: wasamasa: 0.9 2016-12-21T23:12:48Z ertes: also everything geiser- and scheme-related is at defaults right now 2016-12-21T23:13:13Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-21T23:13:13Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-21T23:13:13Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-21T23:13:38Z ertes: that's weird… the run-chez function is available and starts up the geiser REPL 2016-12-21T23:14:37Z ecraven: ertes: did you set geiser-active-implementations to include chez? 2016-12-21T23:15:41Z ertes: ecraven: that worked! thanks 2016-12-21T23:19:36Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-21T23:19:56Z ertes: is there any semantic meaning to comment lines introduced by multiple semicolons? 2016-12-21T23:24:36Z ecraven: ertes: I use ;;;; for "headings", and have adjusted my emacs highlighting to show them specially 2016-12-21T23:24:48Z ecraven: single ; is normally used at the end of lines, ;; for separate lines 2016-12-21T23:24:52Z ecraven: I don't use ;;; normally 2016-12-21T23:26:40Z wasamasa: the scheme style guide by riastradh explains these 2016-12-21T23:26:47Z robotoad quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-21T23:31:24Z Menche quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-21T23:33:24Z aeth: ecraven: I thought usually ;;; was for top-level and ;; was for line comments that weren't top level? And, yes, ;;;; for headings (or comments applicable for more than one section like the license at the top of the file) 2016-12-21T23:34:36Z masoudd quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-21T23:36:28Z aeth: It looks like it's different in different places. I'm jumping around to random places in the source of Racket and it looks like they just use ;; for on their own line comments and ; for end of line comments. 2016-12-21T23:37:09Z jcowan_ joined #scheme 2016-12-21T23:38:56Z aeth: Chibi Scheme seems to *only* have comments as headings and uses ;; there. 2016-12-21T23:39:06Z aeth: Guile uses the style I am talking about. 2016-12-21T23:39:38Z aeth: e.g. https://github.com/cky/guile/blob/c1eb929258fc6b9653d31c0d1bc654d9e300d4e5/benchmark-suite/benchmark-suite/lib.scm 2016-12-21T23:39:38Z rudybot: http://teensy.info/YceZp75IoI 2016-12-21T23:40:21Z jcowan quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-21T23:41:01Z ertes: so the answer is "no", i suppose =) 2016-12-21T23:42:13Z aeth: Chicken uses ;;; as headings and saves ;;;; for the first line of the top of the file, after which the rest of the header just uses ; (!!!) 2016-12-21T23:42:21Z aeth: e.g. https://github.com/alaricsp/chicken-scheme/blob/master/compiler.scm 2016-12-21T23:44:49Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-21T23:46:34Z aeth: ertes: I think Common Lisp follows the rules I give more constantly, and that's probably where Guile got them from (if not elisp). e.g. SBCL does seem to follow the same style that Guile uses. 2016-12-21T23:49:48Z aeth: hmm, nope, elisp style in emacs is closer to Chicken except the file headers are ;;; followed by ;; instead of ;;;; followed by ; 2016-12-21T23:52:54Z aeth: ertes: I think the answer is more complicated than "no". It appears that there is semantic meaning but every single project follows their own style that's subtly different, and the only thing that seems to be constant is ; for end-of-line comments and ;; for "regular" comments (and what's regular varies depending on the project rules for ;;; and ;;;;) 2016-12-21T23:53:39Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.1.1)) 2016-12-21T23:54:24Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-22T00:02:20Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-22T00:11:31Z ertes: aeth: you mean that a program could indeed behave differently depending on which comment style i used? 2016-12-22T00:14:32Z aeth: ertes: if by a program you mean the syntax highlighter, yes 2016-12-22T00:14:38Z aeth: If by a program you mean the program being commented itself, no 2016-12-22T00:14:46Z ertes: remember: my question is about whether there is a semantic difference, not whether i should understand and use a certain style 2016-12-22T00:14:59Z ertes: ok, thanks =) 2016-12-22T00:15:29Z aeth: Afaik, the semantic difference is a meta-semantic difference of sorts. 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I just got hard core lost. 2016-12-22T06:29:19Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-22T06:29:59Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-22T06:30:32Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-22T06:32:52Z r0kc4t quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-22T06:33:43Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-22T06:33:48Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-22T06:33:50Z JoshS quit (Disconnected by services) 2016-12-22T06:33:54Z jshjsh is now known as JoshS 2016-12-22T06:39:00Z mizerian: funny I just looked up those vids 2016-12-22T06:39:06Z mizerian: I should really watch them. 2016-12-22T06:54:53Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-22T07:00:49Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-22T07:02:03Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-22T07:02:08Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-22T07:03:37Z Pleh: They are really good but lecture 2A stumpped me. Thankfully I am getting some help. 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2016-12-22T17:07:42Z mizerian: easier? 2016-12-22T17:13:40Z narendraj9 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-22T17:15:48Z jackdaniel: the question should be: "can I, using scheme, be more productive than myself using python and/or java" 2016-12-22T17:16:23Z jackdaniel: another question, quite important as well: "can I, knowing scheme, be more productive while using python and/or java" 2016-12-22T17:16:34Z jackdaniel: answer is: of course, but not necessarily :-) 2016-12-22T17:22:04Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-22T17:32:27Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-22T17:33:10Z lritter quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-22T17:33:42Z pjb joined #scheme 2016-12-22T17:35:21Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-12-22T17:35:57Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-22T17:38:47Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-22T17:56:19Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2016-12-22T17:58:10Z blackwolf joined #scheme 2016-12-22T17:58:13Z ft joined #scheme 2016-12-22T18:05:52Z jmd joined #scheme 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Concerning MIT/GNU Scheme: When running ./Setup on a fresh git checkout, on a linux box, it hangs with 100% on one core on line './m4-dos -P "WIN32,1" -P "WCC386R,1" < i386.m4 > i386-ntw.asm'. That *looks* like it tries to build a windows build?? 2016-12-22T19:08:04Z Menche quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-22T19:08:10Z Riastradh: Wonder what it's doing inside that. 2016-12-22T19:08:11Z ecraven: Any ideas what might be happening here? this is before ./configure, it's on ./Setup.sh in src/microcode, I think 2016-12-22T19:09:04Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-22T19:09:15Z Riastradh: (It is supposed to build that.) 2016-12-22T19:09:44Z Riastradh: What if you ^C it, `make maintainer-clean' in src/microcode/cmpauxmd, and then run that line yourself by hand? 2016-12-22T19:13:25Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-22T19:13:52Z ecraven: that doesn't hang 2016-12-22T19:14:31Z ecraven: now ./Setup.sh completes 2016-12-22T19:14:42Z Riastradh: Weird. 2016-12-22T19:14:44Z Menche quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-22T19:17:57Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-22T19:19:15Z forgottenpurple joined #scheme 2016-12-22T19:19:35Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-22T19:21:07Z ecraven: thanks, this allows the complete build to finish. 2016-12-22T19:22:32Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-22T19:26:53Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-22T19:28:18Z terpri joined #scheme 2016-12-22T19:28:32Z muelleme joined #scheme 2016-12-22T19:34:05Z enderby quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-22T19:42:31Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-22T20:06:02Z acarrico quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-22T20:16:23Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-22T20:24:10Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-22T20:30:50Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-22T20:31:18Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-22T20:31:47Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-22T20:32:45Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-22T20:32:46Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-22T20:46:52Z nc_ quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-22T20:58:27Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-22T21:02:56Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-22T21:03:45Z cemerick quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-22T21:13:23Z turtleman quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-22T21:14:46Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-22T21:15:50Z nc_ joined #scheme 2016-12-22T21:20:32Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2016-12-22T21:22:15Z blackwolf quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2016-12-22T21:24:44Z muelleme quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-22T21:40:34Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-22T21:52:22Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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I'm not sure. 2016-12-24T19:58:40Z Jookia: Maybe it'd be better to just use macros over an entire codebase 2016-12-24T19:59:07Z wasamasa: or a scheme with great debugging support 2016-12-24T19:59:14Z wasamasa: or... racket 2016-12-24T19:59:50Z Jookia: I don't think I ever managed to get Racket installed, so Chibi Scheme for me 2016-12-24T20:00:06Z Jookia: Maybe I'll have a go at hacking the interpreter in C 2016-12-24T20:01:28Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-24T20:13:09Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:13:56Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:13:56Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-24T20:13:56Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:19:36Z neoncontrails joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:24:25Z turtleman joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:29:13Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-24T20:29:24Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:32:04Z pjb: Jookia: I did something ressembling that, but for Common Lisp. cf. cl-stepper, https://gitlab.com/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/tree/master/common-lisp/lisp 2016-12-24T20:32:55Z pjb: Jookia: now, thanks to packages in CL, it's easier to avoid going full meta-circular I guess. 2016-12-24T20:33:15Z Jookia: pjb: How did you do it? An interpreter or macros? 2016-12-24T20:33:57Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-24T20:34:47Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:35:13Z pjb: in CL, macros are specified to expand ultimately to standard special operators and function calls. Therefore you only have to consider special operators. Now, standard special operators may be implemented as macros. So this is what I did: I just implemented the finite set of CL special operators as macros. But not the actual CL special operators, but new macros in the CL-STEPPER package (instead of the CL package). 2016-12-24T20:35:32Z pjb: To debug a program you only have to substitute CL-STEPPER for CL in the defpackage forms. 2016-12-24T20:36:56Z Jookia: Oh, nice! 2016-12-24T20:38:08Z pjb: Damned, I've see a demo of a meta scheme system that let you navigate the tower and modify the system on the fly. It would be a nice basis to implement your debugger. 2016-12-24T20:38:18Z pjb: Damned, because I don't remember the reference. 2016-12-24T20:40:54Z Jookia: Black? 2016-12-24T20:40:56Z Jookia: Blond? 2016-12-24T20:41:48Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-24T20:42:10Z Jookia: Oh well, it seems like what I want to do is redefine a lot of the primitives then source files in to that scope so it uses those primitives- I could probably push this in to the language's bootstrap too if I wanted to modify the interpreter 2016-12-24T20:42:25Z aeth: Not circular, but I wrote a large portion of Scheme in CL and it was mostly stuff like (define-scheme-procedure (list-copy obj) (copy-list obj)) or a more complicated example: (define-scheme-predicate (finite? z) (not (and (floatp z) (or (infinitep z) (nanp z))))) 2016-12-24T20:43:02Z aeth: Basically I was mapping the very large set of Scheme primitives to CL built-ins where possible (or writing them in the few cases where CL doesn't have them), and wrapping them in a macro 2016-12-24T20:43:10Z Jookia: I see 2016-12-24T20:43:38Z aeth: Multiple macros, e.g. define-scheme-predicate handles the #t/#f/'() vs. t/nil 2016-12-24T20:43:49Z Jookia: Nice 2016-12-24T20:44:44Z Jookia: I'd still have to implement some language-level primitives to handle introspection of closure environments, but oh well 2016-12-24T20:44:52Z Jookia: interpreter-level* 2016-12-24T20:45:00Z aeth: My system would probably introduce a huge speed penalty, though, because it wouldn't have any optimizations unless I did something like define-inlinable-scheme-procedure or something. Otherwise (+ 1 2 (* 3 4)) would have to actually run all of that instead of taking advantage of the host CL, which would probably turn that into a constant. 2016-12-24T20:45:07Z aeth: It'd be exactly what you wanted though, except in two languages instead of one 2016-12-24T20:47:21Z Jookia: Mm yeah 2016-12-24T20:47:33Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-24T20:48:24Z aeth: Afaik, you could just do most of it the way I did it, i.e. the standard procedures part. The tricky stuff is the environment, the lambda, etc. 2016-12-24T20:48:40Z aeth: Also the reader, etc. 2016-12-24T20:50:02Z aeth: It's easier if you just e.g. target r7rs-small, though, instead of a real, full Scheme. e.g. In my Scheme scheme I could just write define-scheme-procedure stuff in CL to extend it where needed, rather than having to follow a potentially complex full-featured Scheme implementation. 2016-12-24T20:52:16Z aeth: Quite a bit of Scheme is a huge number of built-ins, though, and that does help. 2016-12-24T20:54:35Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:54:35Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-24T20:54:35Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:57:14Z Menche quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-24T20:58:45Z Jookia: r7rs-small is what I'm using atm 2016-12-24T20:59:20Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-24T20:59:35Z Jookia: I'll have to read the spec some more to see how environments could be instrumented without writing an interpreter 2016-12-24T21:00:18Z Jookia: I suppose all that matters is how early I put my macros ;) 2016-12-24T21:00:28Z Jookia: versus the primitives I'm implementing or passing thru 2016-12-24T21:01:11Z ChrisOei joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:09:24Z leot quit (Quit: BBT) 2016-12-24T21:12:53Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:13:12Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2016-12-24T21:13:41Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-24T21:24:38Z turtleman quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-24T21:26:28Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:26:28Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-24T21:26:28Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:29:11Z DKordic joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:32:57Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-24T21:34:41Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:34:41Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-24T21:34:41Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:39:18Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-24T21:39:49Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-24T21:41:32Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:46:34Z JoshS quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-24T21:47:16Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T21:50:30Z Menche quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-24T21:51:53Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-24T22:05:21Z forgottenpurple joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:05:35Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:05:35Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-24T22:05:35Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:06:38Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-24T22:10:26Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-24T22:11:34Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:18:21Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:18:22Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-24T22:26:31Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:31:25Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-24T22:32:09Z noethics joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:33:09Z ertes: i've tried like 6-7 different scheme implementations in the past few days, and i've come to a conclusion: 2016-12-24T22:33:18Z ertes: i still have no idea which one to use =) 2016-12-24T22:33:32Z ertes: so i'll randomly pick chicken and see how far it gets me 2016-12-24T22:33:34Z lemonpie: ertes, i think that's why so many exist 2016-12-24T22:33:44Z lemonpie: chicken is a good choice as an overall good scheme impl, imo 2016-12-24T22:33:45Z rgrinberg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-24T22:34:43Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-24T22:34:48Z ertes: yeah, and it seems to be really active, too… there is even some initial nix support for eggs, which makes things a lot simpler (and which may have been a factor in my "random" choice) 2016-12-24T22:34:53Z lemonpie: also useful to have: kawa, gauche, chibi (practically a r7rs reference implementation at this point), and chez 2016-12-24T22:35:53Z ertes: i'd like to note: there is one problem i consistently ran into with every single implementation i've tried: lack of *ecosystem* documentation 2016-12-24T22:36:00Z ertes: "need functionality X? here is how you search for it" 2016-12-24T22:36:14Z ertes: "here is the proper implementation-specific way to get the library" 2016-12-24T22:36:15Z ertes: etc. 2016-12-24T22:36:25Z lemonpie: *nod* 2016-12-24T22:47:20Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:48:35Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:52:30Z jmd quit (Read error: No route to host) 2016-12-24T22:54:07Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-24T22:54:13Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-24T22:54:21Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-24T22:54:37Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:03:24Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-24T23:06:47Z earnestly joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:09:51Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:10:15Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:15:03Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-24T23:15:38Z wtetzner joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:17:46Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-24T23:27:40Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:28:58Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:33:40Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-24T23:42:35Z manualcrank joined #scheme 2016-12-24T23:44:01Z neoncontrails quit 2016-12-24T23:53:49Z ertes: what's the canonical procedure that does nothing? i often need it as a base case (e.g. for folds) 2016-12-24T23:54:22Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-24T23:55:06Z lemonpie: identity ? 2016-12-24T23:55:58Z lemonpie: constantly could be useful in folds as a 'do nothing' type function, especially '(constantly 0)' 2016-12-24T23:56:40Z Jookia: Is there any work on pointfree programming in scheme? Or just easier composition? ie (a {} | b | c {} 10) 2016-12-24T23:57:54Z Jookia: Coming from Haskell it's annoying to have such verbose code 2016-12-24T23:58:51Z ertes: lemonpie: ah, i found void 2016-12-24T23:59:02Z ertes: identity still takes an argument and then does nothing =) 2016-12-24T23:59:17Z lemonpie: void doesn't have a return thoguh, which may be a problem for folds :) 2016-12-24T23:59:59Z lemonpie: (define zero (constantly 0)) might be of use 2016-12-25T00:00:21Z ertes: lemonpie: yeah, coming from haskell i actually tried the following: (foldr (lambda (x go) (display x)) void '("abc" "def" "ghi")) 2016-12-25T00:00:22Z Jookia: There's also things like let which are almost procedural but still functional which I like. Maybe I should mess with some syntax >:D 2016-12-25T00:00:32Z ertes: i expected it to print "abc" and do nothing else 2016-12-25T00:00:51Z ertes: but i'm wrong… actions aren't first class here =/ 2016-12-25T00:02:16Z ertes: so yeah, it actually always traverses the full list and always calls the cons handler for every element 2016-12-25T00:03:32Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-25T00:06:58Z ertes: so what's the (chicken) scheme way to consume a list with state and effects? perhaps there is an elegant way to do it with continuations or coroutines? 2016-12-25T00:11:07Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-25T00:11:18Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-25T00:12:01Z noethics: begin? 2016-12-25T00:13:59Z wasamasa: writing your own folding procedure 2016-12-25T00:14:14Z wasamasa: here's one I wrote: https://github.com/wasamasa/giflib/blob/master/giflib-imlib2.scm#L51 2016-12-25T00:14:43Z wasamasa: it may be disappointing, but CHICKEN doesn't claim itself to be an elegant scheme :P 2016-12-25T00:14:52Z ertes: wasamasa: hmm… too bad =) 2016-12-25T00:15:16Z ertes: it doesn't have built-in/predefined coroutines though? should be easy enough to implement with continuations 2016-12-25T00:15:49Z wasamasa: I don't see why you'd want to solve that problem with continuations 2016-12-25T00:16:49Z ertes: not necessarily that particular problem, but i'm thinking of stream processing in general, e.g. transform a stream of blocks from a file into a stream of lines, then a stream of blah, then a stream of blubb, then do something with those blubbs 2016-12-25T00:21:06Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-25T00:22:30Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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Thank you for putting in the time and effort to make scheme great 2016-12-25T09:46:15Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-25T09:50:38Z earnestly joined #scheme 2016-12-25T09:51:14Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-25T09:54:33Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-25T09:56:42Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-25T09:58:50Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-25T10:03:36Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-25T13:40:13Z pjb: ertes: use backquote first. 2016-12-25T13:40:21Z pjb: `(a b c ,(lambda () …)) 2016-12-25T13:41:16Z pjb: ertes: notice there's a need for both ' and ` since both can be embedded into one another. 2016-12-25T13:41:24Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-25T13:41:51Z ertes: pjb: thanks, that works 2016-12-25T13:42:29Z pjb: (let ((a 1) `(let ((b 2)) `(list ,b ,,a)))) would be very different from (let ((a 1) `(let ((b 2)) '(list ,b ,a)))) <-- b has no value here! 2016-12-25T13:46:19Z ertes: so ` isn't just quote with anti-quotation? 2016-12-25T13:46:54Z fantazo joined #scheme 2016-12-25T13:48:38Z shifty joined #scheme 2016-12-25T13:50:17Z ertes: ah… i see 2016-12-25T13:50:19Z wasamasa: ` is quasiquote and allows you to unquote, yes 2016-12-25T14:05:34Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-12-25T14:12:32Z alezost quit (Quit: I live in GuixSD and Emacs ) 2016-12-25T14:13:10Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-25T14:19:32Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping 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This set: (1 2 2 2 4 5) is a list of number. 2016-12-26T00:04:54Z teurastaja: no no... the list contains lists of numbers 2016-12-26T00:04:54Z pjb: I shuffle the numbers which are equal, ie. the 2s. And I get: (1 2 2 2 4 5). 2016-12-26T00:05:19Z pjb: Ok, let's try with singletons: ((1) (2) (2) (2) (4) (5)) --> ((1) (2) (2) (2) (4) (5)) 2016-12-26T00:05:29Z pjb: I shuffled the sets (2) (2) and (2). 2016-12-26T00:05:41Z teurastaja: say (list (list 1 2 3) (list 3 2 1)), both lists are set= 2016-12-26T00:06:28Z pjb: Yes, but since (1 2 3) set-equals (3 2 1), what difference is there between ((1 2 3) (3 2 1)) and ((3 2 1) (1 2 3)) or ((1 2 3) (1 2 3))? 2016-12-26T00:06:56Z teurastaja: none from a set perspective 2016-12-26T00:07:00Z pjb: ok 2016-12-26T00:07:07Z pjb: So why do you want to shuffle them? 2016-12-26T00:07:16Z teurastaja: sudoku generator 2016-12-26T00:07:41Z pjb: In suduku, there are no sets, only ordered sequences of numbers. 2016-12-26T00:08:30Z pjb: Anyways. So what you can do, is to collect in a vector the indices of the equal elements, and shuffle this vector. Then you use it to re-order the original sequence. 2016-12-26T00:08:55Z teurastaja: if 2 row triplets appear in an adjacent column of another third of the grid, they can be shuffled 2016-12-26T00:09:19Z teurastaja: pjb: i already did that but id like a cleaner solution 2016-12-26T00:10:19Z pjb: Well, we could imagine a more abstract solution, but it won't be cleaner or more efficient. 2016-12-26T00:11:10Z teurastaja: pjb: can think of anything? 2016-12-26T00:11:47Z pjb: Develop a mathematical theory for it, and express the solution as a simple formula in this mathematical theory. Then implement it in scheme. 2016-12-26T00:13:01Z teurastaja: pjb: you are vague. i wonder if you really want to think of a solution. that advice you just gave could apply to anyone here 2016-12-26T00:14:37Z pjb: What is not clean in the code you wrote? 2016-12-26T00:15:34Z pjb: you have a vector to shuffle, but some elements must not move. So you want to generate a random permutation, but amongst a subset of all possible permutations. Try to implement that in a clean way! 2016-12-26T00:16:45Z pjb: Extracting the positions of the elements that must move is clean, the shuffle algorithm is clean, re-ordering the elements is clean. 2016-12-26T00:17:21Z teurastaja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-26T00:17:53Z TCZ joined #scheme 2016-12-26T00:26:34Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-12-26T00:28:06Z TCZ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-26T00:33:08Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T00:35:33Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-26T00:35:42Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-26T00:38:07Z wtetzner joined #scheme 2016-12-26T00:43:23Z pie__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-26T00:59:18Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-26T01:01:55Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T01:19:31Z shdeng joined #scheme 2016-12-26T01:23:51Z emiserson is now known as emerson 2016-12-26T01:25:48Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T01:27:46Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T01:30:57Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-26T01:41:03Z pjb joined #scheme 2016-12-26T01:47:56Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-26T02:32:13Z rgrinberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T02:49:51Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-26T03:02:54Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-26T03:03:44Z ArneBab_ joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:04:31Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:04:48Z wtetzner joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:09:35Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T03:12:10Z taylan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T03:12:10Z jao quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T03:13:07Z ohama quit (Disconnected by services) 2016-12-26T03:13:19Z hive-mind quit (Write error: Broken pipe) 2016-12-26T03:13:23Z webshinra quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T03:13:40Z ohama joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:13:44Z hive-mind joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:14:21Z ineiros_ quit (Write error: Broken pipe) 2016-12-26T03:14:21Z reverse_light quit (Write error: Broken pipe) 2016-12-26T03:14:28Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 619 seconds) 2016-12-26T03:14:32Z eMBee quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T03:14:32Z tessier quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T03:14:59Z ineiros joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:16:22Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T03:18:10Z reverse_light joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:18:31Z tessier joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:23:55Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:25:48Z eMBee joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:40:52Z wtetzner joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:48:35Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:50:45Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:54:47Z mumptai_ joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:57:40Z tmtwd joined #scheme 2016-12-26T03:57:41Z tmtwd quit (Client Quit) 2016-12-26T03:58:29Z mumptai quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-26T04:00:23Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T04:04:27Z Menche joined #scheme 2016-12-26T04:06:12Z lambda-smith joined #scheme 2016-12-26T04:09:03Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-26T04:25:08Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-26T04:28:30Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T04:35:46Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-26T04:36:12Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-26T05:11:42Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-12-26T05:19:12Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-26T05:30:22Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-26T05:36:57Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T05:39:28Z igajsin1 joined #scheme 2016-12-26T05:42:27Z igajsin1 left #scheme 2016-12-26T05:49:54Z earnestly quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-26T06:02:35Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-26T06:02:43Z JoshS quit (Disconnected by services) 2016-12-26T06:02:49Z jshjsh is now known as JoshS 2016-12-26T06:03:59Z lisp_in_2017 joined #scheme 2016-12-26T06:04:18Z lisp_in_2017 left #scheme 2016-12-26T06:10:06Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-26T06:24:50Z webshinra joined #scheme 2016-12-26T06:25:52Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-26T06:27:18Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-26T06:28:44Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-26T06:41:57Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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2016-12-26T17:14:38Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T17:16:23Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:19:05Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T17:20:37Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:25:53Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-26T17:27:28Z wtetzner joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:28:58Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:32:17Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T17:33:04Z leot quit (Quit: BBL) 2016-12-26T17:34:52Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:35:58Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:37:09Z alexshendi quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-26T17:38:19Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-26T17:41:18Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-12-26T17:42:46Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:46:45Z MrBismuth quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-26T17:50:55Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:56:58Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-26T17:58:25Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-26T18:00:39Z ohama quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T18:06:12Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T18:08:33Z taylan doesn't remember there ever being a bot like that in #scehme 2016-12-26T18:08:36Z taylan: scheme* 2016-12-26T18:08:43Z jao quit (Disconnected by services) 2016-12-26T18:09:10Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:12:13Z edgar-rft: taylan: sceh me! 2016-12-26T18:12:49Z taylan: :) 2016-12-26T18:13:35Z Riastradh: There was about ten years ago. 2016-12-26T18:15:19Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:15:19Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-26T18:15:19Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:15:42Z edgar-rft: we need a time-machine 2016-12-26T18:16:18Z leot joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:17:07Z pjb: Or virtual machines running old software. 2016-12-26T18:17:44Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:29:15Z XTL: I think I remember specbot. That must be a while. 2016-12-26T18:30:31Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:31:24Z rgrinberg joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:33:57Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T18:36:35Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-26T18:37:33Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-26T18:50:26Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-26T18:54:34Z ohama joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:00:15Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:09:29Z Fare joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:10:07Z jmd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T19:17:26Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-12-26T19:19:17Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:20:33Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-26T19:20:52Z forgottenpurple_ joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:21:21Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:24:06Z forgottenpurple quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-26T19:27:06Z UserJosh joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:28:58Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-26T19:30:14Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-26T19:30:38Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-12-26T19:31:31Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:38:29Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-26T19:43:39Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-26T19:53:44Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-26T20:00:04Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-26T20:06:36Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-26T20:11:23Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-26T20:13:02Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-26T20:13:39Z rgrinberg quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T20:14:51Z Elronnd is now known as strangebot 2016-12-26T20:14:53Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-26T20:15:22Z strangebot is now known as Elronnd 2016-12-26T20:15:53Z Elronnd is now known as TheresaMayBot 2016-12-26T20:16:08Z TheresaMayBot is now known as Elronnd 2016-12-26T20:36:46Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-26T20:37:13Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-26T20:52:32Z Guest40325 quit (Changing host) 2016-12-26T20:52:32Z Guest40325 joined #scheme 2016-12-26T20:52:39Z Guest40325 is now known as C-Keen 2016-12-26T21:01:05Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-26T21:09:29Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-26T21:10:03Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-26T21:15:13Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-26T21:15:59Z nomicflux joined #scheme 2016-12-26T21:17:38Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-28T06:45:53Z lexicall joined #scheme 2016-12-28T06:53:16Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-28T07:00:25Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-28T07:22:08Z JoshS joined #scheme 2016-12-28T07:24:34Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-28T07:32:20Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-28T07:34:08Z cibs joined #scheme 2016-12-28T07:45:07Z jmd: I want to handle an exception and the report it (with its stack trace). How can I get the stack from within the handler? 2016-12-28T07:55:49Z robotoad quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-12-28T07:58:49Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:05:19Z renopt: jmd: afaik, there's no standard way across implementations 2016-12-28T08:05:57Z jmd: renopt: OK. Thanks. 2016-12-28T08:10:37Z robotoad quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-12-28T08:12:59Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:12:59Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-28T08:12:59Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:13:29Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:17:44Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-28T08:18:24Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 2016-12-28T08:23:48Z robotoad quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-12-28T08:24:39Z alexshendi2 joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:25:03Z alexshendi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-28T08:25:04Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:31:38Z sn0w quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-12-28T08:35:08Z robotoad quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-12-28T08:36:32Z robotoad joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:38:49Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-28T08:39:13Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:43:58Z lexicall_ joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:43:59Z alexshendi2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-28T08:47:08Z lexicall quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-28T08:48:34Z lexicall joined #scheme 2016-12-28T08:50:28Z robotoad quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-12-28T08:52:08Z lexicall_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-28T09:09:51Z lexicall quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-12-28T09:19:31Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-28T09:23:06Z JoshS quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-28T09:28:15Z jmd quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-28T09:30:43Z X-Scale quit (Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-) 2016-12-28T09:31:44Z emacsomancer quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-28T09:33:33Z teleScope joined #scheme 2016-12-28T09:33:52Z leot joined #scheme 2016-12-28T09:38:19Z earnestly joined #scheme 2016-12-28T09:45:43Z lexicall joined #scheme 2016-12-28T09:52:15Z jao joined #scheme 2016-12-28T10:01:16Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T10:01:17Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-28T10:01:17Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T10:05:59Z lexicall quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!) 2016-12-28T10:06:01Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-28T10:15:56Z jao quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-12-28T10:22:12Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T10:22:13Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-28T10:22:13Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T10:27:17Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-28T10:38:42Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-28T10:38:53Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-28T10:55:30Z jmd joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:03:44Z teleScope_ joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:03:50Z teleScope quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-28T11:16:59Z jonaslund joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:19:17Z wasamasa: jmd: some don't even *have* a stacktrace 2016-12-28T11:19:26Z wasamasa: jmd: in CHICKEN for instance you only get a call trace 2016-12-28T11:20:27Z jmd: wasamasa: I see. Thanks. 2016-12-28T11:27:46Z pjb joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:42:29Z UserJosh joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:45:34Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-28T11:48:45Z jshjsh joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:50:41Z ft quit (Quit: Reconnecting) 2016-12-28T11:50:57Z ft joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:51:04Z ertesx joined #scheme 2016-12-28T11:51:56Z UserJosh quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-12-28T11:54:11Z ertes quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-28T11:54:12Z ertesx is now known as ertes 2016-12-28T11:56:34Z ft quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-12-28T11:56:56Z ft joined #scheme 2016-12-28T12:10:27Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T12:10:46Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-28T12:10:46Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T12:15:28Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2016-12-28T12:17:55Z bjz_ joined #scheme 2016-12-28T12:19:28Z bjz quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2016-12-28T12:22:02Z lexicall joined #scheme 2016-12-28T12:25:57Z jonaslund quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-28T12:38:46Z davorb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-12-28T12:39:34Z davorb joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:17:25Z shdeng quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-28T13:28:18Z UserJosh joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:30:59Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:31:17Z bjz_ quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2016-12-28T13:31:25Z jshjsh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-12-28T13:32:18Z narendraj9 joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:37:05Z kuribas joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:42:57Z C-Keen: does that help? 2016-12-28T13:47:33Z lambda-smith joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:55:21Z cemerick joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:57:35Z teleScope_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-12-28T13:58:36Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T13:58:37Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2016-12-28T13:58:37Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2016-12-28T14:03:37Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-12-28T14:13:42Z lexicall quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!) 2016-12-28T14:26:22Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2016-12-30T05:21:52Z duncanm: hmm, weird 2016-12-30T05:23:09Z duncanm: oh, it has to do with LOAD 2016-12-30T05:25:56Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2016-12-30T05:32:32Z nomicflux quit (Quit: nomicflux) 2016-12-30T05:34:13Z lambda-11235 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) 2016-12-30T06:12:56Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2016-12-30T06:15:54Z bjz joined #scheme 2016-12-30T06:16:47Z robotoad quit (Quit: robotoad) 2016-12-30T06:21:10Z vtomole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-12-30T06:26:51Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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seconds) 2016-12-30T23:15:52Z jlongster quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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