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2016-08-18T01:03:44Z parsnipM_: channel pretty quiet. is this a good place to be once i give learning scheme a further try?
2016-08-18T01:04:07Z parsnipM_ notes the resources described in /topic.
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2016-08-18T01:06:04Z evhan: parsnipM_: It's generally pretty quiet, but questions are usually answered if you're willing to idle.
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2016-08-18T01:24:32Z parsnipM_: evhan: awesome, i have my eye on scheme, just continually distracted by other things :)
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2016-08-18T07:08:52Z manumanumanu: ecraven: the benchmarks are _very_ pretty now. Great work. Strange that chez is so slow on the string benchmarks
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2016-08-18T07:13:21Z manumanumanu: anyone has any idea why chez does that string benchmark so bad?
2016-08-18T07:13:45Z manumanumanu: it just seems so out of place among all those ones, twos and threes :)
2016-08-18T07:16:27Z mario-goulart: ecraven: BTW, I noticed that CPUs configuration has a quite big influence in benchmarks.  Example: http://paste.call-cc.org/paste?id=9199f833f1ccae2c9a1234980ffe055c5ab4a677
2016-08-18T07:17:49Z mario-goulart: with powersave as governor the results are quite random, even with something like 50 repetitions per program.  The performance governor leads to more stable results.
2016-08-18T07:19:21Z manumanumanu: mario-goulart: doesn't the powersave governor pin the cpu to something really low?
2016-08-18T07:19:50Z mario-goulart: manumanumanu: I think it doesn't really pin CPUs, but it constantly tries to slow it down.
2016-08-18T07:20:18Z manumanumanu: I tried it on my pi and started getting all kinds of weird performance problems.Even the networking became unreliable with huge lags when typing over SSH.
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2016-08-18T07:21:32Z manumanumanu: mario-goulart: well, it scales the cpu down to the lowest possible freq.
2016-08-18T07:22:24Z manumanumanu: on my odroid xu4, that means 200mhz... if you are doing anything else with your computer at that level, I would expect some strange results
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2016-08-18T07:24:56Z manumanumanu: conservative should be a better choice
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2016-08-18T07:27:50Z mario-goulart: manumanumanu: good point
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2016-08-18T09:03:53Z csed: Hey. So for awhile now I've been wondering what "properly tail-recursive" means.
2016-08-18T09:05:05Z csed: Does, anyone have some good docs on this? I have An Idea, but I'm pretty sure it's just flat-out wrong.
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2016-08-18T10:26:39Z dpk: csed: in what context?
2016-08-18T10:26:59Z dpk: talking about a Scheme procedure, or an implementation, or?
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2016-08-18T10:48:21Z csed: dpk: Properly tail-recursive when talking about a Scheme procedure, yep.
2016-08-18T10:50:59Z dpk: when the last thing a procedure does before returning is make a recursive call to itself, that procedure is tail-recursive
2016-08-18T10:51:49Z dpk: specifically, when the procedure's return value is the result of that call to itself
2016-08-18T10:53:36Z csed: dpk: Right, that bit I get. But why would Scheme be considered "properly" tail-recursive? As in, I guess stuff goes into a stack frame, but it over overflows?
2016-08-18T10:53:49Z csed: That's the bit that's just "what" to me.
2016-08-18T10:54:56Z dpk: the stack frame of the procedure can be reused instead of a new one being created, so it doesn't overflow
2016-08-18T10:55:18Z dpk: and also it's faster since you don't need to return back through all the stack frames when the recursive procedure terminates
2016-08-18T10:57:50Z dpk: those who call Scheme 'properly' tail recursive are, i think, generally referring to the fact that this 'optimization' actually changes the behaviour of programs so that a different style of programming is possible: you can write recursive procedures that deal with any size of data without having to worry about the possibility of stack overflow
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2016-08-18T11:16:24Z csed: dpk: Ah, so it's the fact that the stack frame is reused. Ok. But what about the previous iterations of the function, does the frame stack have no concept of them after the tail-recurse call?
2016-08-18T11:16:36Z dpk: no, it doesn't
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2016-08-18T11:28:39Z csed: dpk: Hm. Alright. Well that explains it, awesome. Thanks.
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2016-08-18T18:35:33Z ijp: will clinger has a paper that sets it out in detail
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2016-08-18T20:11:04Z pierpa: Random factoid of the day: "According to Bob Prior (editor at MIT Press), sicp sold 45,000 copies in its first five years".
2016-08-18T20:16:27Z jcowan: Not very meaningful if it was required for a class.
2016-08-18T20:17:48Z pierpa: 9000 copies per year looks significative in any case
2016-08-18T20:19:52Z jcowan: yeah, you're right, only about 1000 entering freshmen at MIT, though other schools may have used it too
2016-08-18T20:21:38Z pierpa: 1000 freshmen only for EECS, I guess?
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2016-08-18T20:47:38Z jcowan: No, the whole entering class
2016-08-18T20:48:24Z leppie: SCHEME OR DIE!
2016-08-18T20:50:41Z leppie: jcowan: so they only have 1000 new 1st year students a year at MIT?
2016-08-18T20:51:16Z leppie: if so, that is pretty exclusive :D
2016-08-18T20:51:39Z ijp: elite universities market on exclusivity
2016-08-18T20:52:38Z jcowan: Indeed.  They grant about 1100 baccalaureate degrees a year, so Little's Law says there have to be about that many entering yearly.
2016-08-18T20:52:54Z jcowan: I applied but they turned me down.
2016-08-18T20:53:00Z jcowan: (back in 1975)
2016-08-18T20:54:02Z pierpa: those scums!
2016-08-18T20:54:34Z jcowan: Eh,¸they took one of the two people who graduated ahead of me in my high school class of 200 or so.
2016-08-18T20:55:14Z jcowan: Although he was a high-school transfer student, so he had fewer opportunities to screw up than those of us who were there for all 4 years
2016-08-18T20:55:40Z jcowan: I'm not sorry, I might have been one of the people hanging from the HVAC pipes in the basement
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