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2016-06-20T04:53:04Z n_blownapart: t> hi anyone give me a hint on how to hand write the output of this program? (f 4) should return 11 but its not what I'm getting. thanks https://www.refheap.com/120590
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2016-06-20T05:03:22Z idev: scheme supports tails recurion; js does not; for education purposes, how do I compile scheme, via continuation passing style, to js? (looking for book / blog / article / paper recommendation)
2016-06-20T05:07:54Z ijp: trampoline or cheney on the MTA
2016-06-20T05:08:23Z ijp: or use a js->js compiler that does support proper tail recursion
2016-06-20T05:11:45Z ecraven: idev: doesn't new js mandate TCO?
2016-06-20T05:12:19Z ijp: it does, but it'll be a while before it is portable, so that's why I suggested the js->js compiler
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2016-06-20T05:16:19Z idev: I want to do it via CPS
2016-06-20T05:16:24Z idev: as an excuse to learn how to write CPS compilers
2016-06-20T05:17:06Z ijp: that doesn't change the advice
2016-06-20T05:17:54Z idev: trampolines !+ CPS
2016-06-20T05:18:14Z ijp: CPS makes control explicit, and every call into a tail call.
2016-06-20T05:20:00Z ijp: so once you've decided to go that route, you still need to know how tail calls get implemented
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2016-06-20T06:09:45Z ecraven: sadly Rust doesn't support TCO any more than C does (or maybe even a lot less)
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2016-06-20T11:26:31Z davorb: idev: JS recently added support for TCO
2016-06-20T11:27:01Z davorb: oh, nm. I just saw that ecraven already wrote what I was going to write.
2016-06-20T11:33:42Z ecraven: davorb: do you happen to know of any site listing which versions of the major browsers correctly support TCO?
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2016-06-20T11:44:19Z davorb: ecraven: usually I use caniuse.com, but they don't seem to have added TCO to their list yet. i'm going to open an issue about it on their github page.
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2016-06-20T13:50:05Z taylan: ye gods, the record types discussion is huge :(
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2016-06-20T14:04:03Z ecraven: and doesn't seem to conclude anytime soon
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2016-06-20T14:06:50Z taylan: ecraven: have you managed to grok it?  I was tired and only skimmed it yesterday and will retry now...
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2016-06-20T14:09:53Z ecraven: the main point of contention seems to be whether the "symbols" used to identify the fields (parameters to the constructor and the car for the fields) are just symbols or actually identifiers
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2016-06-20T14:16:20Z taylan: yeah, I was blurry on the exact implications of each choice but there are some clear examples now that I look again
2016-06-20T14:17:00Z taylan: like http://sprunge.us/bQSC
2016-06-20T14:17:07Z ecraven: I don't really care that much one way or another, but it should be possible to write portable code :-/
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2016-06-20T14:20:54Z taylan: ecraven: I think 99% of code out there won't be affected by the choice anyway...
2016-06-20T14:22:30Z ecraven: taylan: that's probably right :) though I do love introspection, so this is interesting
2016-06-20T14:23:12Z taylan: well, indeed, I don't know how introspection would work sanely if the identifier route is taken
2016-06-20T14:23:50Z ecraven: taylan: personally, I'd say using the accessor instead of any "name" (that isn't actually used for anything normally anyway) might not be the worst idea... but that would of course be an incompatible change
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2016-06-20T14:24:36Z taylan: that sounds like a good idea indeed
2016-06-20T14:24:43Z ecraven: but then, I also like mit-scheme's (define-structure pair first second), which auto-generates make-pair, pair-first, set-pair-first! and so on :)
2016-06-20T14:24:59Z ecraven: taylan: that idea comes up on the list a few times too
2016-06-20T14:25:07Z ecraven: (scrap the name, use the accessor)
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2016-06-20T17:16:15Z makufiru: anyone here also use Rust, or understand Rust's ownership and lifetime semantics? I'm wondering if it could be possible or even worthwhile to implement a Scheme with rust-style ownership semantics that would allow you to use Scheme without a GC
2016-06-20T17:17:30Z LeoNerd: That would require lots of static annotations or code analysis
2016-06-20T17:17:48Z makufiru: I'm leaning toward code analysis. In the compiler
2016-06-20T17:17:49Z Kooda: I believe Stalin does this.
2016-06-20T17:17:56Z Kooda: But it’s quite slow.
2016-06-20T17:18:05Z makufiru: the Stalin compiler?
2016-06-20T17:18:06Z Kooda: (though really interesting)
2016-06-20T17:18:07Z Kooda: Yep
2016-06-20T17:18:23Z makufiru: Rust does it pretty fast - IMO anyways
2016-06-20T17:18:41Z makufiru: and they do it through code analysis
2016-06-20T17:18:59Z Kooda: You type more annotations in Rust, and the semantics of the language is far simpler than Scheme.
2016-06-20T17:19:23Z Kooda: I suppose it wouldn’t be too hard to make a Rust-like DSL. :)
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2016-06-20T17:19:56Z makufiru: That's what I'm thinking. Just using &etc or what have you for borrow semantics
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2016-06-20T17:31:26Z Kooda: makufiru: if you start such project, please keep me posted. I was thinking about exploring that. ^^
2016-06-20T17:32:56Z ecraven: the interesting part would be to do it *without* all the annotations
2016-06-20T17:33:12Z ecraven: if only rust would support proper TCO :-/
2016-06-20T17:35:53Z Kooda: Sure!
2016-06-20T17:35:57Z Kooda: Yeah, it would be nice :|
2016-06-20T17:46:42Z funrep: how does chez scheme stand compared to racket, chicken etc. ?
2016-06-20T17:48:06Z funrep: skimming through its docs it seems very feature rich, and i assume you can use third-party libraries assuming they are written in r6rs?
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2016-06-20T18:06:25Z makufiru: funrep: you might try asking in #chez
2016-06-20T18:11:27Z makufiru: ecraven: why do you want TCO on rust? You'd just transpile to rust? haha
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2016-06-20T18:14:50Z wasamasa: if I could do a single thing in the programming world, it would be to eliminate "transpile" from the general vocabulary
2016-06-20T18:17:39Z funrep: makufiru: oh thanks
2016-06-20T18:18:05Z makufiru: wasamasa: why? seems like a lackluster accomplishment to set as your life goal
2016-06-20T18:19:26Z wasamasa: makufiru: programming is not the only thing I do :>
2016-06-20T18:20:19Z makufiru: well your programming life goal then. What's so bad about the word transpiling? You'd just prefer "compile"?
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2016-06-20T18:22:20Z wasamasa: yes
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2016-06-20T18:23:12Z makufiru: eh. I like the use of transpile to denote the difference between going from "language" to bytecode/machine code as compared to language-language
2016-06-20T18:24:35Z wasamasa: it invokes this mental image of javascript programmers being scared to death by compilers
2016-06-20T18:29:50Z makufiru: lol seems like you just have PTSD from dealing with the Javascript world
2016-06-20T18:30:31Z wasamasa: nah, I just keep my distance from their practices :>
2016-06-20T18:30:32Z makufiru: I went exactly the direction you're describing - full stack JS developer into becoming obsessed with compilers haha
2016-06-20T18:30:47Z wasamasa: like, ridiculously tiny libraries
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2016-06-20T18:56:25Z pierpa: I would eliminate the word "compile" instead.
2016-06-20T18:56:36Z pierpa: The correct word is "translate".
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2016-06-20T19:36:05Z makufiru: eh. Meaning is assigned by everyone agreeing upon how a representation of a idea/object/process is interpreted. So let's just call it "bloofdorf".  Same word for past, present, future, and infinitive. So we can bloofdorf scheme to Rust.
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2016-06-20T21:05:29Z Kooda: XD
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2016-06-20T23:10:13Z woodpecker: I am trying to set up Kawa on Windows and use Emacs for editing and REPL.
2016-06-20T23:10:52Z woodpecker: I installed Kawa and I am able to run 'java kawa.repl' in cmd.exe
2016-06-20T23:11:57Z woodpecker: but when I try to create the REPL window through 'switch-to-scheme' provided
2016-06-20T23:12:11Z woodpecker: through cmuscheme.el I get a stack trace
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2016-06-20T23:12:35Z woodpecker: Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" javax.swing.text.StateInvariantError: ...
2016-06-20T23:12:50Z woodpecker: Any idea what is going wrong
2016-06-20T23:12:51Z woodpecker: thanks
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