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2016-06-08T05:23:01Z ecraven: hey :)
2016-06-08T05:23:08Z jackdaniel: o/
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2016-06-08T05:31:51Z groovy2shoes: hey y'all :)
2016-06-08T05:32:27Z ecraven: interesting discussion about immutable strings on srfi 135
2016-06-08T05:32:48Z ecraven: I just fear it'll splinter things even more :-/ string- vs. text- vs. textual- :-(
2016-06-08T05:37:48Z pierpa: no, I think srfi-135 is promising
2016-06-08T05:38:57Z ecraven: pierpa: I agree with the srfi in general, I just don't like two new prefixes...
2016-06-08T05:38:58Z pierpa: and there's a chance that the current mess of undefined behaviors can be reduced
2016-06-08T05:39:22Z ecraven: I'd prefer making string immutable and adding a mutable string type... but that's for r8rs, if ever
2016-06-08T05:40:43Z pierpa: Yes, of course. But they don't want to make changes this big. So something like srfi-135 is the second best thing
2016-06-08T05:41:28Z ecraven: pierpa: but it will also introduce a lot of legacy code using textual- and text-, making the step to immutable string (with prefix string-) even harder
2016-06-08T05:42:46Z pierpa: string may remain for the mutable ones, and text for the immutable. Then the double quote syntax may be repurposed to produce texts...
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2016-06-08T05:43:59Z pierpa: and gradually strings will be a legacy feature
2016-06-08T05:44:20Z ecraven: ... and we're stuck with text- for strings, instead of string-
2016-06-08T05:44:33Z ecraven: I feel names are very important, so I wouldn't like that :-/
2016-06-08T05:44:45Z pierpa: text is not a bad name
2016-06-08T05:45:29Z pierpa: think about it... :)
2016-06-08T05:45:55Z ecraven: text to me implies a certain minimum length :)
2016-06-08T05:46:00Z ecraven: a long string is a text :p
2016-06-08T05:46:06Z pierpa: hmmm
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2016-06-08T17:35:27Z pierpa: how do I get cpu elapsed time in Larceny? (or even real time, is cpu is not available)
2016-06-08T17:35:40Z pierpa: -is+if
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2016-06-08T17:45:02Z wasamasa: I recall something about jiffies
2016-06-08T17:45:35Z wasamasa: http://www.larcenists.org/benchmarksAboutR7.html mentions current-jiffy
2016-06-08T17:46:41Z jcowan: If you wrap your expression in (time ...) you will get elapsed system and user time printed out.
2016-06-08T17:47:11Z jcowan: (import (larceny benchmarking)) first
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2016-06-08T18:41:16Z pierpa: wasamasa: jcowan: thank you
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2016-06-08T18:59:43Z n_blownapart: hi when this function recurses, the operation (* x   occurs outside the recursive function. so when we have (exponent 4 0) return 1, does (exponent x (- y 1)) reduce to (1) and move to the left like this? : (* 4 (1)). or is the >* move to the right into the function’ space something like this : (exponent (>* x (1)) ? thanks
2016-06-08T18:59:43Z n_blownapart:  https://www.refheap.com/120056
2016-06-08T19:00:12Z n_blownapart: does*
2016-06-08T19:05:45Z teurastaja: (define (exponent x y) (if (zero? y) 1 (* x (exponent x (- y 1)))))
2016-06-08T19:09:52Z jcowan: n_blownapart: What does >* mean?
2016-06-08T19:11:38Z pierpa: Any Larceny user here?
2016-06-08T19:12:45Z pierpa: This is what "larceny -r7rs" produces: https://bpaste.net/show/8a4911f940cd  looks like it's non-working
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2016-06-08T19:14:23Z jcowan: Indeed.
2016-06-08T19:15:22Z teurastaja: is there any code associated with it?
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2016-06-08T19:16:00Z pierpa: ?
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2016-06-08T19:22:44Z jcowan: pierpa: I can't reproduce this on Linux.  Did you build Larceny from source, or install a binary?
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2016-06-08T19:35:33Z n_blownapart: sorry jcowan had to step out suddenly. thats an alias because I was trying to follow the output better.
2016-06-08T19:36:48Z n_blownapart: jcowan: I think in this case you cannot do a trace on * because it is primative.
2016-06-08T19:36:56Z teurastaja: need help diagnosing this neural network: http://pastebin.com/MccBTS1V
2016-06-08T19:37:19Z teurastaja: *** ERROR: argument lists contained an improper list ending with: 3
2016-06-08T19:37:20Z teurastaja: Stack Trace:
2016-06-08T19:37:20Z teurastaja: _______________________________________
2016-06-08T19:37:20Z teurastaja:   0  (hadamard (list 3 x) (transpose xy))
2016-06-08T19:37:20Z teurastaja:         At line 14 of "(standard input)"
2016-06-08T19:37:22Z teurastaja:   1  (dot-product in (car ws))
2016-06-08T19:37:24Z teurastaja:         At line 46 of "(standard input)"
2016-06-08T19:37:26Z teurastaja:   2  (eval expr env)
2016-06-08T19:37:28Z teurastaja:         At line 179 of "/usr/share/gauche-0.9/0.9.4/lib/gauche/interactive.scm"
2016-06-08T19:37:30Z teurastaja: gosh[r7rs.user]>
2016-06-08T19:38:44Z n_blownapart: jcowan: what I'd like to know is how to conceptualize the * operator in that recursion, where it is sitting outside and to the left of the recursive func.
2016-06-08T19:38:55Z n_blownapart: >*
2016-06-08T19:39:17Z teurastaja: everything goes well until feedforward, but i rewrote feedforward differently and it gives me the same error
2016-06-08T19:39:59Z teurastaja: n_blownapart: i answered you earlier
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2016-06-08T19:41:08Z n_blownapart: sorry I missed that teurastaja thanks I 'll figure out your answer.
2016-06-08T19:41:41Z pierpa: jcowan: it's a binary from larcenists.org. It appears to work only in -r5rs mode
2016-06-08T19:41:52Z teurastaja: well its easy to see it works. it may be that your interpreter treats ">" differently?
2016-06-08T19:42:21Z teurastaja: rudybot: (define (exponent x y) (if (zero? y) 1 (* x (exponent x (- y 1)))))
2016-06-08T19:42:21Z rudybot: teurastaja: your sandbox is ready
2016-06-08T19:42:22Z rudybot: teurastaja: Done.
2016-06-08T19:42:42Z teurastaja: rudybot: (exponent 4 5)
2016-06-08T19:42:43Z rudybot: teurastaja: ; Value: 1024
2016-06-08T19:43:21Z jcowan: In any case you should be using expt, which is a standard Scheme function
2016-06-08T19:43:27Z teurastaja: exactly
2016-06-08T19:44:13Z teurastaja: jcowan could you look at this please?: http://pastebin.com/MccBTS1V
2016-06-08T19:44:47Z teurastaja: its just 34 lines
2016-06-08T19:44:55Z teurastaja: and it breaks
2016-06-08T19:46:00Z jcowan: okay, what doesn't work?
2016-06-08T19:46:59Z n_blownapart: teurastaja: the thing is could you answer me this? : how do you write out by hand the output so that you can see how the arguments look after the base case; ie is it (* x (1))  ,  or is it (exponent (* x (1))  ?
2016-06-08T19:47:17Z teurastaja: *** ERROR: argument lists contained an improper list ending with: 3
2016-06-08T19:47:18Z teurastaja: <teurastaja> Stack Trace:
2016-06-08T19:47:18Z teurastaja: <teurastaja> _______________________________________
2016-06-08T19:47:18Z teurastaja: <teurastaja>   0  (hadamard (list 3 x) (transpose xy))
2016-06-08T19:47:18Z teurastaja: <teurastaja>         At line 14 of "(standard input)"
2016-06-08T19:47:19Z teurastaja: <teurastaja>   1  (dot-product in (car ws))
2016-06-08T19:47:23Z teurastaja: <teurastaja>         At line 46 of "(standard input)"
2016-06-08T19:47:25Z teurastaja: <teurastaja>   2  (eval expr env)
2016-06-08T19:47:27Z teurastaja: <teurastaja>         At line 179 of "/usr/share/gauche-0.9/0.9.4/lib/gauche/interactive.scm"
2016-06-08T19:47:29Z teurastaja: <teurastaja> gosh[r7rs.user]>
2016-06-08T19:48:03Z teurastaja: n_blownapart: dont understand your question
2016-06-08T19:49:03Z teurastaja: n_blownapart: (... (* x 1))
2016-06-08T19:49:33Z teurastaja: actually its not x its the accumulated value
2016-06-08T19:49:57Z jcowan: So it's getting a 3 where a pair is expected.
2016-06-08T19:49:58Z teurastaja: of exponent over x
2016-06-08T19:50:22Z n_blownapart: jcowan: sorry that is directed to me?
2016-06-08T19:50:29Z teurastaja: jcowan: cant visualize where that would be
2016-06-08T19:50:40Z teurastaja: n_blownapart: no
2016-06-08T19:50:43Z n_blownapart: sorry
2016-06-08T19:51:35Z teurastaja: n_blownapart: what you are studying is called a fold
2016-06-08T19:51:52Z n_blownapart: so teurastaja (... indicates (exponent  in your post above?
2016-06-08T19:52:36Z jcowan: (list 3 x) produces (3 x), but hadamard appears to expect a list of lists
2016-06-08T19:52:40Z teurastaja: ... indicates previous values. remember that scheme is textually scoped
2016-06-08T19:53:03Z teurastaja: jcowan: omg!!! i did this??
2016-06-08T19:53:11Z teurastaja: i meant make-list lol
2016-06-08T19:53:56Z pierpa: the joys of dinamism :)
2016-06-08T19:53:59Z teurastaja: damn... i thought my mistakes were a little less stupid
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2016-06-08T20:03:11Z n_blownapart: so does (>* 4 (exponent 4 (1)))   look like this (*> 4 (>* 4 (1)) in the next step, or does it look like this : (*> 16 (1)) ?  teurastaja
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2016-06-08T20:04:38Z n_blownapart: ie if the multiplication is on the right of the inner nested function, how does it handle two argument : (exponent 4 1)  ?
2016-06-08T20:04:48Z n_blownapart: arguments*
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2016-06-08T20:06:17Z n_blownapart: isn't the interpreter looking at this ? : (* 4 (exponent 4 1))
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2016-06-08T20:11:03Z teurastaja: n_blownapart: (1) means execute 1 which is a mistake
2016-06-08T20:11:14Z teurastaja: it doesnt do that
2016-06-08T20:11:36Z n_blownapart: teurastaja: I'm reading about left and right folds now but I'm confused.
2016-06-08T20:12:25Z n_blownapart: let me post something if you have time. its code I understand that involve what I believe to be a left fold.
2016-06-08T20:12:31Z n_blownapart: teurastaja: ^
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2016-06-08T20:17:44Z n_blownapart: teurastaja: I'd really appreciate it if you wrote out the output of our exponent func. in a similar fashion to the commented output here : https://www.refheap.com/120061
2016-06-08T20:22:06Z n_blownapart: sorry that has other code this is much simpler. I need to be able to conceptualize the fold in a similar way : https://www.refheap.com/120065  teurastaja
2016-06-08T20:25:44Z n_blownapart: very sorry I need to leave if you have time teurastaja I'd really appreciate a post answering this. thanks !
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2016-06-08T20:34:07Z teurastaja: rudybot: (require racket/trace)
2016-06-08T20:34:08Z rudybot: teurastaja: Done.
2016-06-08T20:34:23Z teurastaja: rudybot: (define (exponent x y) (if (zero? y) 1 (* x (exponent x (- y 1)))))
2016-06-08T20:34:23Z rudybot: teurastaja: Done.
2016-06-08T20:34:23Z badkins quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2016-06-08T20:34:35Z teurastaja: rudybot: (trace exponent)
2016-06-08T20:34:35Z rudybot: teurastaja: Done.
2016-06-08T20:34:42Z teurastaja: (exponent 4 5)
2016-06-08T20:34:49Z teurastaja: rudybot: (exponent 4 5)
2016-06-08T20:34:50Z rudybot: teurastaja: ; Value: 1024
2016-06-08T20:34:51Z rudybot: teurastaja: ; stdout: ">(exponent 4 5)\n> (exponent 4 4)\n> >(exponent 4 3)\n> > (exponent 4 2)\n> > >(exponent 4 1)\n> > > (exponent 4 0)\n< < < 1\n< < <4\n< < 16\n< <64\n< 256\n<1024\n"
2016-06-08T20:37:10Z teurastaja: n_blownapart: there you go
2016-06-08T20:37:46Z teurastaja: rudybot: (display ">(exponent 4 5)\n> (exponent 4 4)\n> >(exponent 4 3)\n> > (exponent 4 2)\n> > >(exponent 4 1)\n> > > (exponent 4 0)\n< < < 1\n< < <4\n< < 16\n< <64\n< 256\n<1024\n")
2016-06-08T20:37:46Z rudybot: teurastaja: ; stdout: ">(exponent 4 5)\n> (exponent 4 4)\n> >(exponent 4 3)\n> > (exponent 4 2)\n> > >(exponent 4 1)\n> > > (exponent 4 0)\n< < < 1\n< < <4\n< < 16\n< <64\n< 256\n<1024\n"
2016-06-08T20:37:56Z teurastaja: :/
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2016-06-08T21:14:04Z turbofail: damn.  chez scheme is awesome
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2016-06-08T21:33:01Z turbofail: though i do miss the nonstandard racket things
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2016-06-08T21:37:17Z n_blownapart: teurastaja: thanks kindly ! I will sort through that !
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