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2016-06-05T14:59:00Z ecraven: wingo: doesn't r7rs have write-string? 2016-06-05T14:59:19Z wingo: does it? that sounds promising if so 2016-06-05T14:59:26Z |sir is now known as |2701 2016-06-05T14:59:28Z ecraven: a second, just checking 2016-06-05T14:59:46Z ecraven: 6. Standard procedures, page 59, right column, first entry 2016-06-05T14:59:56Z ecraven: is there a decent HTML version of r7rs that I could link to? 2016-06-05T15:00:30Z ecraven: "Writes the characters of from to in left-to-right order to the textual output 2016-06-05T15:00:40Z ecraven: (write-string string #!optional port start end) 2016-06-05T15:01:21Z wingo: bahhhh 2016-06-05T15:01:28Z wingo: start to end, not start and count 2016-06-05T15:01:50Z ecraven: isn't it always start to end, I've never seen start and count in r7rs, I think? 2016-06-05T15:01:55Z wingo: r6rs does that 2016-06-05T15:02:01Z noethics joined #scheme 2016-06-05T15:02:16Z wingo: yet another pointless incompatibility with r6rs 2016-06-05T15:02:28Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-06-05T15:03:01Z ecraven: well, isn't r7rs all about ignoring r6rs and continuing straight from r5rs? :p 2016-06-05T15:03:26Z ecraven: in the end, I'd guess as long as it's consistent, start+end and start+count are both ok 2016-06-05T15:03:37Z ecraven: is there any good reason to prefer one above the other? 2016-06-05T15:04:08Z grettke quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2016-06-05T15:04:20Z wingo: i do not know, but there is no good reason to have both 2016-06-05T15:04:31Z ecraven: wingo: I very much agree with that :) 2016-06-05T15:04:50Z ecraven: that would also be a good thing to check all of the r7rs-large srfis against 2016-06-05T15:05:09Z wingo: i prefer r6rs's i/o so i think i will ignore r7rs entirely here 2016-06-05T15:05:13Z ecraven: jcowan: ^ do you know of any that use start+count instead of start+length? 2016-06-05T15:06:16Z pjb: what's the difference between count and length? 2016-06-05T15:06:27Z pjb: In CL, we use [start and end[ 2016-06-05T15:08:18Z wingo: bah, i need to not make a bad decision here. 2016-06-05T15:09:33Z ecraven: wingo: just out of interest, can you put into simple words *why* you prefer r6rs io (or more exactly, what you prefer about it)? 2016-06-05T15:09:36Z rx80 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-06-05T15:10:02Z groscoe joined #scheme 2016-06-05T15:10:41Z wingo: r6rs supports both binary and textual i/o, defines useful primitives for both, defines details around textual encoding/decoding, defines ability to control buffering and interaction of buffering with other operations, and has the ability to create custom port types of various varieties 2016-06-05T15:10:56Z wingo: there are parts of r6rs's i/o system i don't like, but that's the good bit. 2016-06-05T15:11:11Z rx80 joined #scheme 2016-06-05T15:14:36Z wingo: also i find r6rs rationale section 20.8 to be convincing 2016-06-05T15:15:17Z wingo: the legacy scheme output primitives `display', `write', and `write-char' are an historical oddity 2016-06-05T15:15:58Z wingo: and that `write-string' actually does the equivalent of `(display str port)' adds to the mess 2016-06-05T15:16:11Z wingo: a late r7rs addition to the mess :) 2016-06-05T15:16:34Z lambda-11235 joined #scheme 2016-06-05T15:31:00Z taylan: wingo: my "favorite" is bytevector-copy! when it comes to R7RS incompatibilities >_> 2016-06-05T15:31:39Z taylan: a call to that procedure written with the R6RS semantics in mind will execute just fine under R7RS, just do something totally wrong 2016-06-05T15:32:10Z wingo: fml 2016-06-05T15:32:26Z wingo: what a broken process 2016-06-05T15:32:43Z wingo: next up is r8rs, starting from r3rs 2016-06-05T15:32:58Z taylan: I still like many aspects of R7RS, but some of the things are just... ugh :( 2016-06-05T15:36:02Z jefrite joined #scheme 2016-06-05T15:37:15Z taylan: (hm, I think it was the other way around in my case: I wrote with R7RS semantics in mind and it broke with (rnrs bytevectors). I wrote this wrapper lib to consolidate: http://sprunge.us/EiTA ) 2016-06-05T15:39:34Z taylan: ecraven: start/end seems to stem from SRFI 13, SRFI 43, and possibly more, so it seems R7RS did the usual "SRFIs before R6RS" 2016-06-05T15:42:20Z mejja joined #scheme 2016-06-05T15:47:41Z mejja: wingo: what on earth are you smoking? surely write-string only does a for each char write-char, no? 2016-06-05T15:48:40Z wingo: mejja: but why does write-char not do (write char) 2016-06-05T15:48:41Z mejja adds a read r6 and r7 line to his to do list 2016-06-05T15:48:46Z wingo: in fact it does (display char) 2016-06-05T15:49:08Z wingo: why would write-string not do (write string) 2016-06-05T15:49:09Z wingo: etc 2016-06-05T15:49:16Z wingo: i mean there are reasons, but it's a mess 2016-06-05T15:49:22Z wingo: not clear, not nice. 2016-06-05T15:49:31Z wingo: not a gem-like language by any means :P 2016-06-05T15:50:38Z mejja: all I know (and care about) is that get-bytevector-n! conses 36 bytes per buffer fill in chez and that I can do consless I/O in mit ;-) 2016-06-05T15:51:01Z wingo: :) 2016-06-05T15:53:33Z TheLemonMan quit (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.") 2016-06-05T16:05:11Z ngz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-06-05T16:05:36Z ngz joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:05:40Z rudybot joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:06:28Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2016-06-05T16:08:39Z profess joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:13:12Z taylan ponders on how SC and IR macros, and RSC and ER macros, seem to be almost the same thing?.. http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/documentation/mit-scheme-ref/SC-Transformer-Definition.html https://wiki.call-cc.org/man/4/Macros 2016-06-05T16:13:12Z rudybot: http://teensy.info/Jo5F3IkOcB 2016-06-05T16:13:26Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2016-06-05T16:13:33Z taylan: (pairwise) 2016-06-05T16:14:07Z taylan is a syntax-case lover and is writing an overview of all alternatives to argue for s-c 2016-06-05T16:14:15Z taylan: (s-c not to be confused with SC :P) 2016-06-05T16:15:40Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-06-05T16:18:40Z mejja have a soft spot for dyb's expanssion passing style macro system 2016-06-05T16:20:32Z mejja have a soft spot for anything ß 2016-06-05T16:22:12Z mejja thinks spelling checkers where invented in france! (dropped once, never fired) 2016-06-05T16:23:45Z profess joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:28:20Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-06-05T16:28:23Z pierpa: mejja: have you reported this performance bug in issue tracker? if not, I'd suggest you do. 2016-06-05T16:28:32Z tos-1 joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:32:57Z mejja: Of course not. 2016-06-05T16:33:02Z mejja doesn't normally lunch at fully-cooked-sushi eateries 2016-06-05T16:35:15Z profess joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:41:00Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-06-05T16:41:25Z pierpa: It could be a simple oversight, easy to fix. Who knows. 2016-06-05T16:41:59Z mejja: pierpa: re: fully cooked sushi : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCzNwWmQdb0 2016-06-05T16:44:15Z profess joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:52:17Z profess quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2016-06-05T16:56:14Z rsully joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:56:43Z dfr33zy joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:56:46Z profess joined #scheme 2016-06-05T16:59:36Z Opodeldoc joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:01:09Z dfr33zy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-06-05T17:05:19Z profess quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2016-06-05T17:05:56Z nanoz joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:05:56Z nanoz quit (Changing host) 2016-06-05T17:05:56Z nanoz joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:07:41Z grettke joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:15:11Z mastokley joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:17:55Z rotty quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.6-dev) 2016-06-05T17:19:05Z rotty joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:24:28Z ngz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-06-05T17:27:20Z kuribas quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-06-05T17:42:59Z ngz joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:44:18Z fantazo joined #scheme 2016-06-05T17:53:22Z |2701 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-06-05T18:01:02Z mokuso quit (Quit: brb) 2016-06-05T18:02:06Z mokuso joined #scheme 2016-06-05T18:26:46Z jao joined #scheme 2016-06-05T18:29:14Z ics joined #scheme 2016-06-05T18:29:24Z plugyn joined #scheme 2016-06-05T18:29:36Z plugyn: is this the official scheme language channel? 2016-06-05T18:30:04Z pjb: yes 2016-06-05T18:30:25Z plugyn: thanks 2016-06-05T18:30:40Z pierpa: official? 2016-06-05T18:31:08Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2016-06-05T18:31:15Z wasamasa: of course 2016-06-05T18:31:17Z wasamasa: the name doesn't start with two hashes 2016-06-05T18:31:34Z plugyn: ^_^ 2016-06-05T18:32:02Z pierpa: for somethng to be official there must some central authority declaring so, methinks 2016-06-05T18:32:10Z plugyn: hm. 2016-06-05T18:32:18Z plugyn officially declares the officiality of this channel 2016-06-05T18:32:18Z fantazo: so where is the authority? hmm? 2016-06-05T18:32:19Z wasamasa: that should ideally happen upon registering the channel 2016-06-05T18:32:34Z wasamasa: alas, it hasn't been really enforced 2016-06-05T18:32:58Z pierpa: It must be the owner of Scheme to declare this one the official channel 2016-06-05T18:33:18Z pierpa: :) 2016-06-05T18:33:19Z fantazo: so why is call/cc still a thing? 2016-06-05T18:34:03Z n_blownapart: hi I have this code that pier*pa wrote for me. I need help with the define-values function. from the documentation I cannot figure out how it works. thanks for looking : https://www.refheap.com/119957 2016-06-05T18:34:37Z plugyn: So I'm super new to scheme and functional programming so no bulli please, but I'm reading the 4th edition of TLSer, and it states to check the correct defintion of atom? like this: (atom? (quote ())), however after i compiled and ran it, nothing is returned. It says #f should be the return value, am I doing anything wrong? 2016-06-05T18:35:56Z n_blownapart: plugyn that's not the full code for atom? 2016-06-05T18:36:38Z plugyn: n_blownapart: hm, yeah that's probably why then. 2016-06-05T18:37:25Z wingo: fantazo: inertia! it captures some use cases but no one has done the effort of proposing composable continuations or delimited call/cc to a standard, and the people making standards are very conservative in some ways 2016-06-05T18:38:11Z pierpa: plugyn: what are you using to check that expression? 2016-06-05T18:38:52Z groscoe quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-06-05T18:38:56Z plugyn: pierpa: I don't really know. I'm just doing what the book asked. But I think I needed to do the (define atom?...))))) first 2016-06-05T18:39:27Z noethics quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-06-05T18:39:40Z pierpa: you are typing that expression into some program? what program? 2016-06-05T18:39:52Z plugyn: no. It was just a blank .scm file I made. 2016-06-05T18:40:22Z plugyn: https://p.teknik.io/vBNsz 2016-06-05T18:40:34Z pierpa: then you have a text file containing that expression ? what you expect to happen? 2016-06-05T18:41:15Z plugyn: well it said to make sure it returns #f, so I guess that >//< 2016-06-05T18:41:43Z pierpa: it will return #f if you feed that file to a scheme interpreter 2016-06-05T18:41:56Z plugyn: oh, I'm using the chicken compiler. 2016-06-05T18:42:00Z pierpa: aha! 2016-06-05T18:42:08Z plugyn: is that the problem? :x 2016-06-05T18:42:30Z pierpa: no idea. I don't know how Chicken works. Someone else will tell you :) 2016-06-05T18:42:35Z plugyn: heh, thank you. 2016-06-05T18:42:53Z plugyn: it says that Chicken can interpret as well, so I'll try that 2016-06-05T18:42:54Z n_blownapart: I pasted the atom? function in scheme here plugyn https://www.refheap.com/119958 2016-06-05T18:43:09Z fantazo: csi is the chicken interpreter 2016-06-05T18:43:20Z plugyn: n_blownapart: thanks! 2016-06-05T18:43:42Z fantazo: (I wonder if the chicken maintainers found that name so funny: csi ) 2016-06-05T18:44:02Z plugyn: heh 2016-06-05T18:44:36Z TheLemonMan joined #scheme 2016-06-05T18:44:45Z plugyn: #;2> (atom? (quote ())) 2016-06-05T18:44:45Z plugyn: #f 2016-06-05T18:44:49Z plugyn: I got it, thanks guys 2016-06-05T18:44:51Z plugyn: ^_^ 2016-06-05T18:45:13Z n_blownapart: hoping for pierpa 's help here https://www.refheap.com/119957 2016-06-05T18:45:33Z n_blownapart: re: define-values 2016-06-05T18:45:48Z pierpa: n_blownapart: what is not clear about that? 2016-06-05T18:46:05Z fantazo: interesting atom? isn't defined in guile 2016-06-05T18:46:32Z pierpa: it's not defined almost anywhere 2016-06-05T18:46:55Z fantazo: ah oh.. 2016-06-05T18:47:49Z n_blownapart: pierpa I've never used define-values, and the docs don't help me get how it works 2016-06-05T18:47:51Z fantazo: once again one of those "there are no batteries included" experiences. 2016-06-05T18:49:45Z pierpa: n_blownapart: try a few examples and it will become clear 2016-06-05T18:51:07Z n_blownapart: pierpa, the output is first in purple, using the #display I added. 2016-06-05T18:57:42Z n_blownapart: pierpa I can see the the program works and returns the leaves, but does #define-values accept two parameters ? 2016-06-05T18:57:48Z n_blownapart: that* 2016-06-05T18:58:21Z IstiCusi quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-06-05T18:58:41Z IstiCusi joined #scheme 2016-06-05T19:02:25Z pierpa: I can rewrite that without define-values it it will help 2016-06-05T19:03:24Z n_blownapart: pierpa yeah this program is a bit over my head. thanks if you have time.. 2016-06-05T19:03:55Z jefrite quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.x-nightly-20160225-9b31a077 - http://znc.in) 2016-06-05T19:04:55Z pierpa: btw, what you pasted is not what I gave you. What you pasted cannot work. 2016-06-05T19:08:30Z pierpa: https://bpaste.net/show/2b0fe7706d45 2016-06-05T19:10:08Z n_blownapart quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2016-06-05T19:12:45Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2016-06-05T19:15:48Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2016-06-05T19:18:29Z n_blownapart: sorry I was disconnected. 2016-06-05T19:18:57Z n_blownapart: if pierpa wrote me I didn't receive it. 2016-06-05T19:20:44Z pierpa: btw, what you pasted is not what I gave you. What you pasted cannot 2016-06-05T19:20:44Z pierpa: work. [21:04] 2016-06-05T19:20:44Z pierpa: https://bpaste.net/show/2b0fe7706d45 [21:08] 2016-06-05T19:20:44Z pierpa: 2016-06-05T19:24:16Z askatasuna joined #scheme 2016-06-05T19:25:08Z n_blownapart: really? all I did was add the display to follow it. Is that part wrong for getting an accurate view of the output? pierpa 2016-06-05T19:27:28Z pierpa: not so. this is what I pasted you yesterday: https://bpaste.net/show/da23a5c981aa 2016-06-05T19:28:55Z n_blownapart: thanks one sec let me sort it out 2016-06-05T19:31:03Z n_blownapart: ok yeah sorry that may be a cut and paste glitch. thanks your latter one looks easier to follow. thank you pierpa 2016-06-05T19:35:23Z civodul joined #scheme 2016-06-05T19:42:54Z n_blownapart quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-06-05T19:50:03Z mastokley quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-06-05T19:51:58Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2016-06-05T20:00:02Z mokuso quit (Quit: laters) 2016-06-05T20:11:03Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-06-05T20:14:26Z ngz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-06-05T20:14:54Z ngz` joined #scheme 2016-06-05T20:20:30Z daviid joined #scheme 2016-06-05T20:27:49Z noethics joined #scheme 2016-06-05T20:34:36Z nilg joined #scheme 2016-06-05T20:38:48Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2016-06-05T20:39:26Z nilg quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-06-05T20:50:51Z IstiCusi quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 2016-06-05T20:52:43Z Menche\demiC quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-06-05T20:57:58Z pllx joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:00:27Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2016-06-05T21:01:26Z lritter joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:04:14Z Blukunfando joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:04:25Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2016-06-05T21:13:46Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:16:05Z badkins quit (Client Quit) 2016-06-05T21:21:40Z pllx quit (Quit: zz) 2016-06-05T21:22:15Z taylan: I wrote this thing http://taylanub.github.io/doc/syntax-case.html 2016-06-05T21:35:15Z badkins joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:37:17Z |2701 joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:40:04Z mastokley joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:50:05Z tos-1 quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-06-05T21:52:17Z galex-713 joined #scheme 2016-06-05T21:56:41Z pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 2016-06-05T21:59:28Z groovy2shoes joined #scheme 2016-06-05T22:01:44Z Menche\demiC joined #scheme 2016-06-05T22:03:06Z groovy2shoes: hey Menche\demiC 2016-06-05T22:04:18Z Menche\demiC: hi 2016-06-05T22:04:51Z TheLemonMan quit (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.") 2016-06-05T22:06:00Z mbrock quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-06-05T22:08:27Z Nycatelos is now known as Foul 2016-06-05T22:08:58Z Foul is now known as Nycatelos 2016-06-05T22:16:06Z Nycatelos quit (Quit: This part message was brought to you by the NSA - Proud owners of Microsoft) 2016-06-05T22:16:20Z Nycatelos joined #scheme 2016-06-05T22:20:59Z groovy2shoes: how's it going, Menche\demiC? 2016-06-05T22:22:56Z Menche\demiC: been doing morning shifts at work lately, coworker went on vacation :P 2016-06-05T22:23:46Z groovy2shoes: ugh that sounds awful 2016-06-05T22:29:50Z Menche\demiC: 6AM opening *yawn* 2016-06-05T22:29:58Z Menche\demiC: it's back to normal now though :D 2016-06-05T22:31:01Z groovy2shoes: nice :) 2016-06-05T22:31:42Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-06-05T22:41:38Z pllx joined #scheme 2016-06-05T22:41:50Z n_blownapart joined #scheme 2016-06-05T22:44:22Z bjz_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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