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Aber was macht Dein Hahn auf meinem Esel." regardless in what language you translate this, the answer will be a slap in your face, because stupid google, always gives this a sexual meaning 2015-05-07T07:21:23Z bjz quit (Client Quit) 2015-05-07T07:25:19Z isaac_rks joined #scheme 2015-05-07T07:31:38Z msgodf joined #scheme 2015-05-07T07:33:48Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-05-07T07:36:05Z larion joined #scheme 2015-05-07T07:36:44Z bjz joined #scheme 2015-05-07T07:49:32Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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I posted here yesterday asking about replacing each element in a list with its index. Here is what I came up with : http://pastebin.com/zuS7UfNB 2015-05-07T19:36:22Z pooka: When I execute this in DrRacket :-> (position '(1 (20 (3 (4 40) 3) 2) 1)) 2015-05-07T19:36:38Z pooka: I get this :-> '(# (# (# (# #) #) #) #) 2015-05-07T19:36:54Z pooka: I have a feeling this has something to do with my usage of set! 2015-05-07T19:37:02Z kephra: moin, let me take a look at it 2015-05-07T19:37:03Z klutometis: pooka: You need to actually return index in addition to setting it. 2015-05-07T19:37:10Z Riastradh: pooka: Start with simpler cases: (position '()), (position 'a), (position '(a)) 2015-05-07T19:37:37Z klutometis: pooka: I'm temporarily blinded by the use of square brackets, though. 2015-05-07T19:38:29Z pooka: I have not used so many brackets in all my programs combined. I have experience with C, Java and python. 2015-05-07T19:38:30Z klutometis: Square brackets don't disappear into the parenthetical praeter-aether like parentheses do. 2015-05-07T19:38:53Z klutometis: pooka: You need to do a little penance for abusing the semicolon, that's all. 2015-05-07T19:38:57Z klutometis: You'll get used to it. 2015-05-07T19:39:20Z klutometis: Plus, ALGOL-like syntaxes are over-rated. 2015-05-07T19:40:00Z wasamasa: c-likes, lisp-likes, ml-likes 2015-05-07T19:40:11Z wasamasa: what other syntaxes does one need to know anyways 2015-05-07T19:40:23Z klutometis: wasamasa: Brainfuck-likes? 2015-05-07T19:40:31Z Pixel_Outlaw: No love for Piet? 2015-05-07T19:40:32Z wasamasa: klutometis: well, of languages used in production 2015-05-07T19:40:44Z wasamasa: klutometis: ruby I guess, but I'd categorize it as silly, same for python 2015-05-07T19:40:57Z pooka: Its hard to context switch immediately. Programming all day in python, then coming to scheme. 2015-05-07T19:41:08Z Pixel_Outlaw: Python is still kind of fits the generic C like sans curly braces. 2015-05-07T19:41:12Z wasamasa: pooka: as long as you don't invent yet another whitespace-syntax for scheme... 2015-05-07T19:41:23Z wasamasa: Pixel_Outlaw: its syntax is way less versatile 2015-05-07T19:41:35Z wasamasa: Pixel_Outlaw: which has a certain kind of appeal 2015-05-07T19:41:36Z klutometis: pooka: Context switching is good for you, like wasabi. 2015-05-07T19:41:56Z Pixel_Outlaw: It is true. 2015-05-07T19:42:10Z klutometis: wasamasa: What about all those template-language like Jinja, etc.; still C-like? 2015-05-07T19:42:20Z wasamasa: klutometis: ugh, no clue 2015-05-07T19:42:25Z wasamasa: klutometis: they are silly, too 2015-05-07T19:42:27Z Pixel_Outlaw: I've seen too many people get caught in the "program everything like it was C" mentality. Then just crash and burn in languages that depart from it. 2015-05-07T19:42:34Z wasamasa: klutometis: just loads of exceptions piled on top of each other 2015-05-07T19:42:43Z wasamasa: klutometis: I'm shocked that some of these come with sandboxing 2015-05-07T19:43:05Z pooka: Pixel_Outlaw: I guess I fall into that category. 2015-05-07T19:43:18Z niklasl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-05-07T19:43:30Z wasamasa: klutometis: templating languages that mostly look like the source language they're meant to be used alongside are also annoying once they depart from it in terms of syntax 2015-05-07T19:43:31Z Pixel_Outlaw: I was too, I picked up an old book on Common Lisp and started learning. 2015-05-07T19:43:59Z wasamasa: like, jinja2 (python) using endfor 2015-05-07T19:44:14Z wasamasa: http://jinja.pocoo.org/docs/dev/sandbox/ 2015-05-07T19:44:24Z Pixel_Outlaw: pooka what aspect is hardest now for you? Recursion or the s-expression syntax? 2015-05-07T19:45:03Z DerGuteMoritz joined #scheme 2015-05-07T19:45:06Z klutometis: wasamasa: Yeah, something about them makes me cringe: no separation of concerns, maybe? 2015-05-07T19:45:13Z wasamasa: klutometis: that, too 2015-05-07T19:45:23Z wasamasa: klutometis: like, it being super smart and doing HTML escaping for you 2015-05-07T19:45:32Z klutometis: Presentation and logic promiscuously intertwined, maybe? 2015-05-07T19:45:35Z klutometis: Right 2015-05-07T19:46:08Z niklasl joined #scheme 2015-05-07T19:46:18Z kephra: pooka, http://o3db.com/proto/reindex.html <- look at the HTML source code ;-) 2015-05-07T19:46:58Z pooka: Pixel_Outlaw: I understand both of those concepts. I have used recursion in C and preorder traversals of trees. 2015-05-07T19:47:08Z kephra: and now we can open the discussion of style again: internal define, vs let, letrec, vs named let 2015-05-07T19:47:14Z klutometis: pooka: To go back to your problem, the result of set! is #. 2015-05-07T19:47:19Z pooka: I guess I just need to get a hang of it. 2015-05-07T19:47:24Z klutometis: You need to return something. 2015-05-07T19:48:00Z pooka: Yes. I understand that incrementing would not mutate index. so I used set!. 2015-05-07T19:49:06Z pooka: Got it! Thanks a lot. It is working correctly now! 2015-05-07T19:50:22Z klutometis: pooka: Let's see it. 2015-05-07T19:51:36Z msgodf quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-05-07T19:52:22Z pooka: This is the modified code : http://pastebin.com/2umcGiKS 2015-05-07T19:52:51Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later) 2015-05-07T19:53:21Z klutometis: pooka: Excellent! A reasonable start. 2015-05-07T19:53:51Z kephra: pooka, did you look at my short written code? 2015-05-07T19:54:15Z klutometis: pooka: Now it's time to turn to SICP for a few months and purge yourself temporarily of set!. 2015-05-07T19:54:20Z pooka: klutometis: problem -> since index is a global variable, running position again does not reset previous value of index. 2015-05-07T19:54:25Z klutometis: You can do a few Hail Abelsons on you're way out. 2015-05-07T19:55:29Z klutometis: pooka: There are a number of ways around that: if you're going to mutate, you can set index within the function and recurse with an inner function. 2015-05-07T19:55:46Z Pixel_Outlaw: klutometis, he must also play Jesu Joy of Man's Desire in screetching MIDI 2015-05-07T19:55:46Z wasamasa: http://www.more-magic.net/posts/structurally-fixing-injection-bugs.html 2015-05-07T19:55:53Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: Heh! 2015-05-07T19:56:12Z pooka: kephra: sorry, missed that. looking now. 2015-05-07T19:57:02Z maxigas quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-05-07T19:57:30Z Pixel_Outlaw: It is very unfortunate that the quality of the SICP videos is kind of bad, even for the time period. 2015-05-07T19:57:52Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: Bad for the 80s? 2015-05-07T19:57:58Z klutometis: Not sure; thought they were tolerable. 2015-05-07T19:58:23Z Pixel_Outlaw: Yes, seems to have digital artifacts as if they were ran through a low quality encoder before being digitized to computer. 2015-05-07T19:58:32Z Pixel_Outlaw: I know they are like 480i 2015-05-07T19:58:33Z klutometis: I find it kind of funny that all the HP blokes in the audience don't realize that they're being immortalized. 2015-05-07T19:58:55Z Pixel_Outlaw: The glorious well quaffed hair! 2015-05-07T19:59:00Z klutometis: Heh! 2015-05-07T19:59:33Z Pixel_Outlaw: My SICP book which I got second hand had a student's name and date on it. I proudly signed mine below his with 2014. :D 2015-05-07T19:59:53Z Pixel_Outlaw: It was a year after the course began. 2015-05-07T20:00:56Z klutometis: Apparently it was "professionally produced by Hewlett-Packard Television;" maybe the source is ok but the intern screwed up the encoding. 2015-05-07T20:01:13Z klutometis: That's pretty cool! 2015-05-07T20:01:32Z Pixel_Outlaw: Sadly it is missing the dust jacket and I only have the bare Red hard cover. 2015-05-07T20:01:36Z wingo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:01:40Z klutometis: I got Abelson to sign mine last year; but I think it embarrassed him. 2015-05-07T20:01:46Z klutometis: Oh, wow; you have the red! 2015-05-07T20:01:58Z klutometis: Yeah, I only have the purple. 2015-05-07T20:02:06Z Pixel_Outlaw: I thought the dust jacket was purple? 2015-05-07T20:02:09Z Pixel_Outlaw: I'm not sure. 2015-05-07T20:02:27Z Pixel_Outlaw: Guess I assumed they are all purple with red dust jacket on top. 2015-05-07T20:02:34Z Pixel_Outlaw: reverse that 2015-05-07T20:02:44Z klutometis: Later hard-cover editions had no dust jacket; just a purple cover. 2015-05-07T20:02:52Z klutometis: Ah, I see. 2015-05-07T20:03:03Z Riastradh: The second edition cover is more blue than purple, too. 2015-05-07T20:03:09Z Riastradh: The first edition dust jacket is definitively purple. 2015-05-07T20:03:46Z pooka: You guys talking about Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs by Abelson? 2015-05-07T20:03:58Z Riastradh: pooka: And Sussman, yes. 2015-05-07T20:05:03Z s1n4 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:05:13Z civodul joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:05:14Z pooka: So I take it I should go through the book. Any other suggestions? 2015-05-07T20:05:30Z Pixel_Outlaw: check your private conversations 2015-05-07T20:05:33Z Pixel_Outlaw: I sent you one 2015-05-07T20:05:40Z Pixel_Outlaw: The Little Schemer 2015-05-07T20:05:47Z klutometis: pooka: If you have some time and live reasonable close to UTC-8:00, you should join us Monday nights on Hangouts. 2015-05-07T20:05:54Z klutometis: We're going through SICP. 2015-05-07T20:06:03Z Riastradh: Everyone should check their private conversations! Some conspiracy here. 2015-05-07T20:06:48Z ijp quit (Quit: brb trisecting the angle) 2015-05-07T20:07:15Z Pixel_Outlaw: I want a Knights of Lambda button now. 2015-05-07T20:07:27Z Pixel_Outlaw: I think that was what he gave them at the end. 2015-05-07T20:09:47Z msgodf joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:10:32Z Pixel_Outlaw: klutometis, you need to prepare fezzes and Knights of Lambda Calculus buttons! 2015-05-07T20:10:38Z msgodf quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-05-07T20:11:29Z s1n4 joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:12:57Z klutometis: Riastradh: This is approximately the color of mine: ; is that the one which is more blue than purple? 2015-05-07T20:12:58Z kephra: pooka, I advise on PAIP and AIMA 2015-05-07T20:13:34Z Riastradh: Hm. 2015-05-07T20:13:40Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: It's called a fez! Thanks! 2015-05-07T20:13:41Z ziocroc joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:13:45Z msgodf joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:13:51Z klutometis: I always referred to it as the ghost-in-the-machine hat. 2015-05-07T20:13:56Z pooka: kephra: nice. Norvig! 2015-05-07T20:14:18Z Pixel_Outlaw: Well if you show me yours I'll show you mine 2015-05-07T20:14:20Z Pixel_Outlaw: https://camo.githubusercontent.com/3b34261292a011b33a5589c17b2545271f4be4f0/68747470733a2f2f7261772e6769746875622e636f6d2f636f757274662f736963702f6d61737465722f696d672f636f7665722e6a7067 2015-05-07T20:14:20Z rudybot: http://eensy.teensy.info/2HzFc1knj4 2015-05-07T20:14:27Z msgodf quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-05-07T20:14:36Z Riastradh: klutometis: No, there is another bluer cover. 2015-05-07T20:15:29Z mario-goulart: Riastradh: I'm honestly pretty shocked. I thought you were much older. Take that as compliment. 2015-05-07T20:16:57Z pooka: So what if I want to sort the this list : (1 (20 (3 (4 40) 3) 2) 1) , keeping the nesting levels intact? 2015-05-07T20:17:10Z wingo joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:18:08Z pooka: resulting in this : '(1 (1 (2 (3 3) 4) 20) 40) 2015-05-07T20:18:50Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:19:04Z uris77 joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:19:20Z klutometis: pooka: You can do that without using set!; it's a good exercise. 2015-05-07T20:20:20Z s1n4 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:21:54Z klutometis: mario-goulart: I think that supports the inverse-Moriarty theorem, though; Riastradh is a Moriarty for the good of Scheme-kind. 2015-05-07T20:23:53Z klutometis: Moriarty was also precocious. 2015-05-07T20:24:40Z mario-goulart: :-) 2015-05-07T20:24:52Z klutometis: Riastradh: I'd agree that the canonical cover does look more blue than purple: . 2015-05-07T20:25:36Z xyh joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:26:04Z alezost quit (Quit: I use GNU Guix ) 2015-05-07T20:27:16Z Pixel_Outlaw: Has anyone gotten to the level of being able to summon floating Lambda symbols into the air yet? Does it require the costume shown on the cover? 2015-05-07T20:29:01Z mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 2015-05-07T20:31:11Z jeapostr1phe quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:33:38Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: Sufficient amount of psilocybin should do the trick. 2015-05-07T20:34:22Z Pixel_Outlaw: \0/ 2015-05-07T20:34:38Z klutometis: Psilocybin is a gift of modern midi-chlorians, I think. 2015-05-07T20:35:14Z Pixel_Outlaw: Ah I was doing it all wrong, trying to transmute aether into lambda particulate. 2015-05-07T20:35:22Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:36:59Z pllx joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:37:16Z BossKonaSegwaY joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:37:32Z BossKonaSegwaY left #scheme 2015-05-07T20:37:41Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: I think Jabir tried the same thing with medieval alchemy; also using air, earth, fire and water. 2015-05-07T20:37:47Z klutometis: He died, sadly, before his work was done. 2015-05-07T20:38:15Z klutometis: Oh, not to mention sulphur and mercury. 2015-05-07T20:38:41Z tsumetai joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:38:48Z yrdz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:40:13Z mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 2015-05-07T20:40:54Z xyh: any recommended r7rs implementations to play with ? 2015-05-07T20:41:25Z klutometis: xyh: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/r7rs 2015-05-07T20:43:10Z Pixel_Outlaw: What was bad about R6? 2015-05-07T20:43:29Z Pixel_Outlaw: I read on wikipedia that some people felt it did too much. 2015-05-07T20:43:44Z Pixel_Outlaw: I've only toyed with the original r5rs 2015-05-07T20:43:45Z yrdz joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:43:53Z Riastradh: Innovation-by-committee. 2015-05-07T20:45:00Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: It was an elaborate troll-werk by CMU to standardize pre-Racket. 2015-05-07T20:45:16Z ASau joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:45:28Z Pixel_Outlaw: troll-werk? 2015-05-07T20:47:15Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: An elaborate troll, I think; after wreaking havoc, they announced Racket and said Tschüss. 2015-05-07T20:48:00Z scoofy: kthxbye 2015-05-07T20:48:03Z klutometis: I know jcowan, foof, et al. were working on R7RS as a successor to R5RS; but I haven't kept up with it. 2015-05-07T20:48:17Z klutometis: scoofy: Basically 2015-05-07T20:49:34Z pooka quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-05-07T20:51:13Z pjdelport joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:51:49Z Pixel_Outlaw: here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDF53L_C9g 2015-05-07T20:52:00Z Pixel_Outlaw: ah, wrong window sorry! 2015-05-07T20:53:52Z s1n4 joined #scheme 2015-05-07T20:57:48Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: Thanks for the link! Enjoyed it! 2015-05-07T20:58:42Z Pixel_Outlaw: Well somebody in a different channel asked me for some different music to try. I'm a bit eclectic. :) 2015-05-07T20:59:22Z Pixel_Outlaw: I listen to a lot of Irish music while programming. Also some maritime work songs. 2015-05-07T21:00:05Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: God, that's brilliant; I suspect the maritime stuff, in particualar, keeps a nice cadence. 2015-05-07T21:00:52Z klutometis: Romantic stuff with its fucking rubato is the worst, I think. 2015-05-07T21:00:57Z Pixel_Outlaw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvBHdw-EqLM 2015-05-07T21:01:01Z kvda quit (Quit: x___x) 2015-05-07T21:01:07Z klutometis: I'll take a fugue or a jig any day. 2015-05-07T21:02:05Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: Fucking fantastic! 2015-05-07T21:03:46Z Pixel_Outlaw: Well, perhaps one more indulgence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZfYtCLA23s 2015-05-07T21:03:50Z Tbone139: whoa, maritime with counter-melody 2015-05-07T21:04:04Z wasamasa isn't hardcore enough to enjoy actual classical music and instead listens to chopins etudes and movie scores 2015-05-07T21:04:15Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:04:15Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2015-05-07T21:04:15Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:04:18Z wasamasa: sometimes debussy and brazilian jazz 2015-05-07T21:05:15Z klutometis: wasamasa: Wow, man; so you can do the romantic stuff! 2015-05-07T21:05:30Z klutometis: I need classic or baroque; maybe with the exception of Rachmaninov. 2015-05-07T21:05:42Z Pixel_Outlaw: This is my favorite cd of maritime music. http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Shanties-Robert-Shaw/dp/B00000JPC1 2015-05-07T21:05:53Z wasamasa: klutometis: I just don't like harsher sounding piano and all the intense moodswings in dynamic range, that's all 2015-05-07T21:06:10Z Tbone139: ever sang a sea shanty with fellow drunkards? recommend trying it sometime 2015-05-07T21:06:33Z vdamewood joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:06:37Z Pixel_Outlaw: I don't drink usually but I'd never pass that up. 2015-05-07T21:06:53Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: There's a whole genre here that I'm discovering for the first time. 2015-05-07T21:06:58Z wasamasa: klutometis: and movie scores incidentally don't do either of these and go with simpler stuff that's less tiring 2015-05-07T21:07:00Z klutometis: Tbone139: I wonder if it's like singing rugby songs. 2015-05-07T21:07:21Z klutometis: wasamasa: Interesting; and I supposed the movie scores are supposed to fade into the background to a certain extent. 2015-05-07T21:07:29Z wasamasa: klutometis: because, uh, it's got to compliment a movie! 2015-05-07T21:07:48Z klutometis: wasamasa: That's a great idea, actually; maybe I'll try it with LoTR. 2015-05-07T21:07:53Z klutometis: wasamasa: Any favorites?L 2015-05-07T21:07:58Z Pixel_Outlaw: klutometis, you can listen to the entire record on Youtube. Just look for "Robert Shaw Chorale sea shanties" 2015-05-07T21:08:27Z wasamasa: klutometis: there's exceptions though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3-JtBVcSFA 2015-05-07T21:08:43Z wasamasa: klutometis: I guess it's because this very snippet is a key piece for the plot 2015-05-07T21:09:42Z Tbone139: touchpianist.com to pretend you're playing classical pieces 2015-05-07T21:09:51Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: I know Shaw's stuff mainly through his Master of the First Art: . 2015-05-07T21:09:52Z rudybot: http://eensy.teensy.info/N0g9oYa7JF 2015-05-07T21:09:57Z wasamasa: klutometis: most recent find: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443680/ 2015-05-07T21:10:07Z klutometis: They give it away when the local classic stations are doing their fundraisers. 2015-05-07T21:10:41Z Riastradh: You say Carmina, I say Burana, let's Carl the whole thing Orff... 2015-05-07T21:10:48Z wasamasa: lol 2015-05-07T21:11:09Z Pixel_Outlaw: ugh... 2015-05-07T21:11:14Z Pixel_Outlaw: crack a window to let that joke out 2015-05-07T21:11:19Z Pixel_Outlaw: (well done great puncraft) 2015-05-07T21:11:24Z klutometis: wasamasa: Interesting! Yeah, I find some of the Stravinsky movie-stuff to be unlistenable. 2015-05-07T21:11:40Z vishesh quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-05-07T21:12:10Z not_a_tiger joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:12:16Z klutometis: Riastradh: A virtuoso pun! 2015-05-07T21:12:54Z Pixel_Outlaw: According to The New Hacker's Dictionary puncrafting is a sign of being a good MIT style hacker. So I can only applaud. 2015-05-07T21:13:34Z Riastradh: 'Fraid^WGlad I can't take responsibility for the craft of that. I suspect a friend of mine did come up with it himself, though. He's dangerous. 2015-05-07T21:13:36Z not_a_tiger: Are newbie questions welcome here? 2015-05-07T21:13:40Z wasamasa: klutometis: I guess that's why they call a related genre "easy listening" 2015-05-07T21:13:53Z Riastradh: not_a_tiger: Of course. 2015-05-07T21:13:58Z wasamasa: klutometis: it just blends in well in the background and makes for good coding 2015-05-07T21:13:59Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-05-07T21:14:19Z not_a_tiger: When speaking of tail call optimization 2015-05-07T21:15:01Z not_a_tiger: Does the type of data passed into recursed calls matter? Can it be something other than a built-in type? 2015-05-07T21:15:06Z Pixel_Outlaw: Here is the proper music for any Scheme session. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeZaSeaHVeg 2015-05-07T21:15:11Z Pixel_Outlaw: (Just the start though) 2015-05-07T21:15:49Z wasamasa: Pixel_Outlaw: I hope that's not the land of lisp song 2015-05-07T21:16:18Z not_a_tiger: wasamasa: That video is great. 2015-05-07T21:16:40Z wasamasa: not_a_tiger: I just cannot decide whether to cringe or laugh at it 2015-05-07T21:17:52Z wingo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-05-07T21:18:32Z not_a_tiger: wasamasa: I made a playlist with LoL as the only video and let it repeat until I felt inspired to study XD 2015-05-07T21:18:55Z Pixel_Outlaw: Hahaha 2015-05-07T21:19:05Z Pixel_Outlaw: The cartoons are really odd from Land of Lisp. 2015-05-07T21:19:13Z Pixel_Outlaw: Not a bad book though. 2015-05-07T21:19:22Z wasamasa: well, some of them are pretty hilarious 2015-05-07T21:19:37Z wasamasa: like the one where lispers are thrown into jail by haskellers for using side effects 2015-05-07T21:20:10Z not_a_tiger: Grand Theft Wumpus 2015-05-07T21:20:26Z ziocroc quit (Quit: ziocroc) 2015-05-07T21:20:30Z wasamasa: the code in it, well... 2015-05-07T21:20:52Z wasamasa: I dunno, it doesn't strike me as a teaching resource, more like a collection of cool demonstrations 2015-05-07T21:21:02Z wasamasa: like, the fact that you can use FORMAT and LOOP to write a game 2015-05-07T21:21:02Z not_a_tiger: The code is intended to be educational. 2015-05-07T21:21:06Z Pixel_Outlaw: I also have Realm of Racket but was really disappointed at how everything used that "big bang" stuff. 2015-05-07T21:21:25Z wasamasa: Pixel_Outlaw: "big bang"? 2015-05-07T21:21:36Z pnpuff joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:21:41Z Pixel_Outlaw: Yeah, racket has some absurdly high level multimedia thing. 2015-05-07T21:21:53Z Pixel_Outlaw: I think it is for young kids but I'm not sure. 2015-05-07T21:23:17Z daviid joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:23:34Z pllx quit (Quit: zz) 2015-05-07T21:24:21Z excelsior quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-05-07T21:24:35Z not_a_tiger goes back to reading 2015-05-07T21:24:42Z Pixel_Outlaw: I find it amusing that Land of Lisp has an entire periodic table of elements to describe LOOP 2015-05-07T21:24:48Z kephra: not_a_tiger, tail optimization should work regardless of datatype the last form returns 2015-05-07T21:25:06Z pjb: Pixel_Outlaw: periodit table of element is a fun sci gag. 2015-05-07T21:25:11Z pjb: c 2015-05-07T21:25:38Z sethalves quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-05-07T21:27:11Z Pixel_Outlaw: LOOP and FORMAT are not very lispy. I think they are the result of having a committee design. 2015-05-07T21:27:29Z pjb: Nope. 2015-05-07T21:27:49Z pjb: They're the result of having a macro system allowing you to design DSL. 2015-05-07T21:28:17Z pjb: Well, FORMAT is actually rather a cancer on fortran FORMAT. 2015-05-07T21:28:33Z Pixel_Outlaw: I DO use LOOP on occasion especially with the collecting clause. 2015-05-07T21:28:43Z pjb: Arguably, a macro DSL for formatting would be nicer than FORMAT. 2015-05-07T21:29:09Z pjb: But notice how you can take format control strings from localized string databases. 2015-05-07T21:29:25Z kephra: pjb, overlay generation language with page formatting aid *sorry - I could not resist* 2015-05-07T21:29:47Z pjb: kephra: granted, you could extend it >better<. 2015-05-07T21:30:37Z pjb: Notice: (format t "~-20,20,-10,10:@/fmt:graph/" (function sin)) 2015-05-07T21:30:38Z kephra: OGL/PPFA is not that bad, just so arcane 2015-05-07T21:31:02Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-05-07T21:32:56Z klutometis: wasamasa: Wow, just saw this for the first time: https://youtu.be/HM1Zb3xmvMc 2015-05-07T21:33:02Z yasha9 joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:33:21Z spew quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-05-07T21:33:45Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-05-07T21:34:42Z Pixel_Outlaw: Oh boy...there it is. 2015-05-07T21:34:51Z bb010g joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:35:14Z klutometis: Pixel_Outlaw: Would have been great with a decent mic; but maybe that's by design! 2015-05-07T21:36:32Z wasamasa: klutometis: considering I feel this longing to watch amelie once again, I guess I must be a romantic 2015-05-07T21:36:34Z Pixel_Outlaw: Oh dammit, the cat part. 2015-05-07T21:36:47Z klutometis: not_a_tiger: When you said LoL, I thought you were talking about Let over Lambda for a second. 2015-05-07T21:37:17Z klutometis: wasamasa: Forgot about Amelie! Maybe I need to rewatch it one of these days. 2015-05-07T21:37:28Z mumptai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-05-07T21:37:52Z sethalves joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:38:21Z Pixel_Outlaw: I like how those advanced Lispers turn into that Voltron looking thing. That's great. 2015-05-07T21:39:05Z pjb: wasamasa: Amelie is not a romantic movie. It's as violent a movie as any other Hollywood production, with an incredible number of death/minute. 2015-05-07T21:39:16Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-05-07T21:40:52Z pjb: wasamasa: http://paste.lisp.org/+365Q 2015-05-07T21:41:01Z pjb: klutometis: http://paste.lisp.org/+365Q 2015-05-07T21:42:08Z pjb: For a comparison, Delicatessen or has only 3 deaths, and "Harry, un ami qui vous veut du bien" only 4, the firsts happening 55 minutes into the movie, not on the first scene. 2015-05-07T21:42:23Z ASau joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:43:20Z Pixel_Outlaw quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-05-07T21:43:40Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:44:07Z pjb: Now of course, I like crazy french movies, like anybody else, but don't make the mistake, they're crazy (cf. Le père Noël est une ordure). (but it's a good crazy, just not hollywood crazy, which is a crazy crazy). 2015-05-07T21:45:42Z not_a_tiger: klutometis: I was referring to Dr. Barski's book, as you may infer from the context. 2015-05-07T21:47:02Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-05-07T21:48:06Z kephra: pjb, lets compare this to a classic: the last samurai has a bodycount of 558 ;-) 2015-05-07T21:49:37Z not_a_tiger: So a Scheme "syntactic expression" is the same as a Lisp "special form"? 2015-05-07T21:50:18Z kongtomorrow quit 2015-05-07T21:50:30Z pjb: kephra: IIRC Amelie goes over, but in an unspecified number, given a few catastrophes. 2015-05-07T21:50:50Z pjb: not_a_tiger: basically yes. 2015-05-07T21:51:42Z uris77 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-05-07T21:53:09Z kephra: not_a_tiger, implementing them is a bit different: hygienic macros are a much higher abstraction than simple scheme macros 2015-05-07T22:00:38Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-05-07T22:01:44Z xyh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-05-07T22:05:22Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-05-07T22:06:16Z not_a_tiger: I have a more complex question, and I may not be fully prepared for a proper answer. 2015-05-07T22:07:01Z not_a_tiger: (set! ...) can be used to change the value of a variable. Shouldn't that be discouraged? 2015-05-07T22:07:19Z pjb: No. 2015-05-07T22:07:45Z pjb: It is discouraged by the name of set! ending with a !, but IMO it should not. 2015-05-07T22:09:07Z pjb: for example, it's much better to use set! than the mutation monad. 2015-05-07T22:09:19Z jeapostrophe quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-05-07T22:09:21Z not_a_tiger: But if repeated applications of the function given the same arguments always evaluates to the same result, then why not let the compiler optimize that and manage storing the value without involving the programmer? 2015-05-07T22:10:06Z pjb: You didn't ask WHERE use of set! was good or bad. 2015-05-07T22:15:16Z vraid quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:20:42Z Pixel_Outlaw joined #scheme 2015-05-07T22:21:03Z klutometis: pjb: Reasonable synopsis! 2015-05-07T22:21:53Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:24:57Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:26:35Z msgodf joined #scheme 2015-05-07T22:27:58Z vishesh joined #scheme 2015-05-07T22:32:18Z tsumetai quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:32:55Z mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 2015-05-07T22:36:00Z not_a_tiger quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:36:13Z mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 2015-05-07T22:36:52Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:37:24Z pnpuff left #scheme 2015-05-07T22:40:46Z bjz quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-05-07T22:40:47Z tsumetai joined #scheme 2015-05-07T22:41:37Z not_a_tiger joined #scheme 2015-05-07T22:55:02Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:55:19Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-05-07T22:56:40Z agumonkey joined #scheme 2015-05-07T22:56:57Z ASau: wasamasa: JFYI, "classical" means class, it is unrelated to style. 2015-05-07T22:57:24Z ASau: wasamasa: for instance, "One-note Samba" is classical already. 2015-05-07T22:58:29Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2015-05-07T22:58:32Z evhan: Like how Led Zep is classical rock. 2015-05-07T22:58:44Z ASau: Like that. 2015-05-07T22:59:21Z evhan: Jimmy was killer with a baton. 2015-05-07T22:59:25Z ASau: It's a usual mistake that people confuse classical to academical. 2015-05-07T23:01:04Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-05-07T23:02:08Z ASau: Somehow the idea that whatever those people call "classical" was once popular and rated on top just like "Yesterday" one or two centuries later. 2015-05-07T23:02:27Z ASau: ...misses the mind. 2015-05-07T23:02:57Z Pixel_Outlaw: Before Zep the stuff from the 60's was classic rock. 2015-05-07T23:03:12Z agumonkey joined #scheme 2015-05-07T23:03:18Z Pixel_Outlaw: Even Elvis "The Pelvis" 2015-05-07T23:06:37Z ASau: There exist other misconceptions. 2015-05-07T23:11:04Z larion quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-05-07T23:11:45Z vishesh quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-05-07T23:14:08Z turbofail: well there is an era of music specifically called the "classical" period 2015-05-07T23:15:50Z pnpuff joined #scheme 2015-05-07T23:16:22Z turbofail: words are weird 2015-05-07T23:18:58Z Pixel_Outlaw: English doesn't always help. :D 2015-05-07T23:21:52Z rtra joined #scheme 2015-05-07T23:25:13Z kvda joined #scheme 2015-05-07T23:34:48Z _sjs quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-05-07T23:39:34Z _sjs joined #scheme 2015-05-07T23:46:03Z adu joined #scheme 2015-05-07T23:48:25Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)