2015-03-09T00:03:42Z akkad quit (Excess Flood) 2015-03-09T00:05:57Z {0}grant joined #scheme 2015-03-09T00:08:58Z akkad joined #scheme 2015-03-09T00:12:31Z badkins quit 2015-03-09T00:18:31Z pnkfelix joined #scheme 2015-03-09T00:27:41Z robot-beethoven joined #scheme 2015-03-09T00:33:59Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-09T00:37:43Z tm512: this hash table takes up a lot of memory 2015-03-09T00:40:24Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-09T00:40:46Z karswell joined #scheme 2015-03-09T00:43:04Z mark_weaver: tm512: there's no point in using a hash table if you're just going to iterate over all the keys to do lookups 2015-03-09T00:43:33Z mark_weaver: if you're going to do lookups that way, you might as well just use a list 2015-03-09T00:43:34Z tm512: I'm not, where did I say that? 2015-03-09T00:44:10Z ijp: the simplest way to make a hashtable take up less memory is to put less stuff in it 2015-03-09T00:44:13Z mark_weaver: also I may need to iterate over all keys and see if either value 2015-03-09T00:44:14Z mark_weaver: stored in them is the word I want 2015-03-09T00:44:38Z tm512: yes. I need to do that, but that's only one part of it 2015-03-09T00:44:58Z edgar-rft joined #scheme 2015-03-09T00:46:15Z tm512: the markov generator keeps a pair of the last two words in the chain, it uses that as an index to the hash table 2015-03-09T00:46:24Z tm512: in order to find possible words to come next 2015-03-09T00:48:13Z mark_weaver: okay 2015-03-09T00:48:42Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T00:48:43Z tm512: it's taking 400MB of ram for 471283 entries 2015-03-09T00:50:42Z ijp: without knowing what constitutes an entry, it's hard to know if > 850 bytes per entry is reasonable 2015-03-09T00:52:44Z tm512: it should be garbage collected, right? 2015-03-09T00:52:57Z ijp: maybe, maybe not 2015-03-09T00:53:21Z tm512: I have this in the function that opens a file: 2015-03-09T00:53:21Z tm512: (let ([strings (read-lines file)]) 2015-03-09T00:53:22Z tm512: (map (lambda (str) 2015-03-09T00:53:22Z tm512: (mkv-build-dict (mkv-parse (string-tokenize str) 3) my-hash)) strings)) 2015-03-09T00:53:55Z tm512: mkv-parse's output needs to be freed after mkv-build-dict is done 2015-03-09T00:54:24Z Qudit314159 joined #scheme 2015-03-09T00:54:29Z ijp: I thought you said the hashtable is taking up all this memory? 2015-03-09T00:54:50Z tm512: it is, if it's not garbage collected 2015-03-09T00:54:57Z tm512: s/not // 2015-03-09T00:55:31Z mark_weaver: am I right to guess that much of the output from mkv-parse is put into the hash table? 2015-03-09T00:56:14Z ijp: anyway, I can't give performance or memory advice on programs I know nothing about 2015-03-09T00:56:30Z ijp: although I can suggest some people who might do that 2015-03-09T00:57:33Z tm512: I can post the code 2015-03-09T00:57:50Z mark_weaver: that would be a prerequisite to anyone being able to help :) 2015-03-09T00:58:08Z tm512: mkv-parse takes a list of strings and returns a list of lists of three consecutive strings each 2015-03-09T00:58:11Z mark_weaver: I'm willing to take a look, but reserve the right to bail if the code is too hairy :) 2015-03-09T00:58:28Z tm512: so it'd turn (this is a test) to ((this is a) (is a test)) 2015-03-09T00:59:13Z tm512: then mkv-build-dict takes each triplet and uses the first two as an index to the hash table 2015-03-09T00:59:40Z tm512: then sets or adds the third to the hash table value 2015-03-09T01:01:11Z tm512: it's my first scheme code so it will probably be bad: http://hastebin.com/hayawonufa.lisp 2015-03-09T01:03:47Z mark_weaver: if you want me to look at it, paste it somewhere that doesn't require me to run non-free javascript code to view it. 2015-03-09T01:03:54Z mark_weaver: e.g. http://paste.lisp.org/new 2015-03-09T01:04:28Z tm512: http://hastebin.com/raw/hayawonufa 2015-03-09T01:04:53Z mark_weaver looks 2015-03-09T01:06:39Z vraid quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-09T01:06:59Z jlongster joined #scheme 2015-03-09T01:08:43Z mark_weaver: tm512: 'grab' == 'take' from SRFI-1 2015-03-09T01:08:52Z tm512: I'm trying to do something similar to this C++ program that I used in the past, but it lacked features and it wasn't a very pleasant codebase. anyway, it only uses 73MB of RAM for far more text 2015-03-09T01:09:07Z mark_weaver: this code would benefit greatly by the use of Alex Shinn's 'match' macro, which is surely available in chicken. 2015-03-09T01:10:12Z mark_weaver: (append a b) takes time proportional to the length of 'a', so it'll end up taking quadratic time to build up lists adding new elements to the end. 2015-03-09T01:10:57Z mark_weaver: and (length words) also takes time proportional to the length of 'words', so that's more quadratic behavior 2015-03-09T01:12:32Z tm512: okay, that doesn't really change the memory usage 2015-03-09T01:12:33Z ijp: mark_weaver: heh, I just realised it was you and not riastradh. fooled by nick highlighting. 2015-03-09T01:12:42Z mark_weaver: you should use 'for-each' instead of 'map' in 'mkv-open', since you have no need for a list of the results. 2015-03-09T01:13:24Z Riastradh: What haven't I done? 2015-03-09T01:13:26Z mark_weaver: tm512: right, I haven't found a source of the memory problem yet.. just giving feedback as I see issues. 2015-03-09T01:14:01Z mark_weaver: ijp: did you IRC client assign the same color to me and Riastradh? 2015-03-09T01:14:05Z mark_weaver: *your 2015-03-09T01:14:06Z ijp: yes 2015-03-09T01:14:09Z mark_weaver: ah 2015-03-09T01:14:32Z ijp: Riastradh: spoken in the space of time from 90 minutes ago, till 3 minutes ago 2015-03-09T01:14:37Z ijp: on here at least 2015-03-09T01:15:21Z tm512: also log.txt is 11MB 2015-03-09T01:16:53Z mark_weaver: tm512: 'str-cat-space' can be done with 'string-join' from SRFI-13 2015-03-09T01:17:49Z mark_weaver: very confusing indentation in 'mkv-find' 2015-03-09T01:18:25Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-09T01:18:42Z ijp: rudybot: would you say you are strictly superior to markov bots? 2015-03-09T01:18:44Z rudybot: ijp: markov chain on its own doesn't mean much 2015-03-09T01:19:13Z jlongster joined #scheme 2015-03-09T01:19:48Z tm512: mark_weaver: sorry, but this is the first scheme that I've written, don't really know what style to use 2015-03-09T01:20:16Z mercwithamouth joined #scheme 2015-03-09T01:20:37Z mark_weaver: tm512: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt 2015-03-09T01:21:10Z mark_weaver: tm512: if you need an operation like 'mkv-find', then you should make another hash table whose keys are just individual words. 2015-03-09T01:21:25Z mark_weaver: otherwise it's not going to be scalable 2015-03-09T01:23:03Z tm512: it already has scaling issues 2015-03-09T01:24:02Z jlongster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-09T01:24:17Z mark_weaver: in chicken, do hash tables created by 'make-hash-table' use 'equal?' as their predicate? 2015-03-09T01:24:38Z jlongster joined #scheme 2015-03-09T01:26:12Z tm512: I have no idea 2015-03-09T01:26:48Z mark_weaver: ah, nevermind, you are using SRFI-69 hash tables, and indeed 'equal?' is the default 2015-03-09T01:30:26Z tm512: chicken scheme has a garbage collector but I don't know whether it's being invoked on this stuff 2015-03-09T01:31:37Z mark_weaver: 850 bytes per entry does seem excessive to me. it seems at least an order of magnitude more than I'd expect. 2015-03-09T01:32:36Z mark_weaver: you are generating a lot of unnecessary garbage along the way, but after 'mkv-open' returns that should be collectable. 2015-03-09T01:33:41Z tm512: should I manually invoke the gc? 2015-03-09T01:33:46Z tm512: apparently I can do that 2015-03-09T01:34:26Z mark_weaver: for diagnostic purposes, yes, but I wouldn't recommend leaving such calls in your final program. 2015-03-09T01:34:46Z mark_weaver: also it would be useful to see how much memory your program uses before it has loaded the file. 2015-03-09T01:34:59Z mark_weaver: btw, how are you measuring the memory usage? 2015-03-09T01:35:09Z tm512: top 2015-03-09T01:35:19Z mercwithamouth quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T01:35:22Z tm512: and I am looking at RES, not VIRT 2015-03-09T01:36:46Z c74d quit (Quit: c74d) 2015-03-09T01:36:50Z mark_weaver: okay. keep in mind that (I believe) those numbers will include things that are shared among multiple processes, e.g. shared libraries. but by the time it is 400M that definitely indicates a problem. 2015-03-09T01:36:57Z b4283 joined #scheme 2015-03-09T01:37:40Z tm512: it uses 7.4M after removing the mkv-open function 2015-03-09T01:37:47Z mark_weaver: okay 2015-03-09T01:38:05Z mark_weaver: you mean removing the call to it? 2015-03-09T01:38:09Z tm512: yes 2015-03-09T01:38:46Z mark_weaver: I know very little about chicken. you might find better answers on #chicken 2015-03-09T01:38:55Z mercwithamouth joined #scheme 2015-03-09T01:39:41Z tm512: I'll not fill the hash table and see how much memory that uses 2015-03-09T01:41:04Z tm512: 171MB without the hash table being loaded 2015-03-09T01:41:47Z mark_weaver: is that after manually invoking GC ? 2015-03-09T01:41:58Z tm512: no, haven't tried invoking the gc yet 2015-03-09T01:42:51Z tm512: 323MB after invoking GC :S 2015-03-09T01:43:40Z mark_weaver: well then... 2015-03-09T01:43:58Z tm512: that is also without loading the hash table still 2015-03-09T01:44:24Z mark_weaver: I would suggest asking on #chicken. 2015-03-09T01:44:26Z evhan: tm512: This is really quite implementation-specific. As mark_weaver suggests, you might try #chicken. 2015-03-09T01:44:42Z mark_weaver: I don't think this is a problem inherent to Scheme, or how you're using it. 2015-03-09T01:45:05Z mark_weaver: I suspect this problem would not occur on Guile, for example. 2015-03-09T01:45:35Z tm512: how portable is the code I've written? 2015-03-09T01:45:54Z tm512: say I strip out the IRC part and run it in guile or MIT/GNU 2015-03-09T01:46:22Z mark_weaver: it's fairly portable. a few things would have to be changed. 2015-03-09T01:46:56Z tm512: probably worth trying 2015-03-09T01:47:22Z tm512: I assume guile implements the srfis that I'm using 2015-03-09T01:47:36Z mark_weaver: in guile you'd have to change the way you import the modules, and change uses of 'printf' to uses of 'format'. 2015-03-09T01:47:38Z ijp: change printf, the regex matching, the module iports, and you'd need to impement read-lines 2015-03-09T01:48:00Z tm512: I don't need the regex 2015-03-09T01:48:05Z tm512: that's part of the IRC stuff 2015-03-09T01:50:37Z echo-area joined #scheme 2015-03-09T01:51:25Z tm512: calling (gc) after loading the hash table actually reduces the memory usage to 217MB 2015-03-09T01:54:18Z mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 2015-03-09T01:56:54Z tm512: or not, it looks like it only was reduced because I switched that map to for-each 2015-03-09T01:57:35Z mark_weaver: well, the result of that 'map' should have been collectable. 2015-03-09T01:58:38Z tm512: gc seems to invariably bloat memory usage 2015-03-09T01:58:42Z mark_weaver: this almost certainly has to do with chicken-specific issues, and #chicken is the place to ask 2015-03-09T02:00:06Z tm512: I am guessing that (gc) is not meant to be called manually 2015-03-09T02:02:32Z mercwithamouth quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T02:02:51Z mercwithamouth joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:03:11Z mercwithamouth quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T02:03:27Z mercwithamouth joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:04:27Z mercwithamouth quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T02:04:43Z mercwithamouth joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:04:52Z mercwithamouth quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T02:05:22Z mercwithamouth joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:07:21Z jlongste` joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:09:14Z mark_weaver: tm512: right, you should normally never have to call (gc) manually. 2015-03-09T02:09:37Z tm512: does format take the same arguments as printf? 2015-03-09T02:09:41Z mark_weaver: I sometimes use it for diagnostic purposes, but have never used it in a program. 2015-03-09T02:09:49Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-09T02:10:51Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-09T02:11:14Z mark_weaver: tm512: I don't know the specification for chicken's 'printf', but I can say that the place you use it can be converted to guile's 'format' with s/printf/format #t/ 2015-03-09T02:12:04Z mark_weaver: (the first argument to 'format' in Guile is the port to write to. #t is a shorthand for (current-output-port), and #f makes format return the string instead of printing it) 2015-03-09T02:14:07Z mark_weaver: hopefully you are using guile 2.0.x 2015-03-09T02:14:16Z tm512: 2.0.11 2015-03-09T02:14:19Z mark_weaver: excellent 2015-03-09T02:15:27Z tm512: what does read-lines need to be? 2015-03-09T02:19:17Z mark_weaver: tm512: well, if you import (srfi srfi-42) and (ice-9 rdelim), then one way to implement it is as follows: 2015-03-09T02:20:25Z mark_weaver: (define (read-lines file) (call-with-input-file file (lambda (port) (list-ec (:port line port read-line) line)))) 2015-03-09T02:22:18Z andrei joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:22:22Z tm512: okay guile uses 240MB 2015-03-09T02:22:44Z mark_weaver: interesting, so maybe there's something I'm missing here :-/ 2015-03-09T02:23:18Z mark_weaver: without your test file, I cannot reproduce your results or investigate further 2015-03-09T02:24:01Z technomancy joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:25:10Z mark_weaver: part of the problem may be that your peak memory usage is rather high, and so the garbage collector needs to get a lot of memory from the OS and it's not always possible to return much of it. 2015-03-09T02:25:34Z phil joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:25:34Z mark_weaver: in fact, for non-moving collectors it is normally not possible to return it to the OS because the heap is fragmented. 2015-03-09T02:25:39Z phil quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T02:25:46Z technomancy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T02:25:49Z tm512: if I was in C I'd try to figure out how much memory the hash table takes 2015-03-09T02:26:03Z mark_weaver: so the answer is probably to write your program in such a way that the peak memory usage is much lower. 2015-03-09T02:26:06Z technomancy joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:27:35Z mark_weaver: so, for starters, don't read the whole file in at once.. read one line at a time, use it to add to the hash table, and then read the next time. 2015-03-09T02:27:38Z excelsior joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:27:43Z mark_weaver: *next line 2015-03-09T02:28:10Z tm512: well the whole file is only about 11MB of text 2015-03-09T02:28:19Z mark_weaver: so instead of 'read-lines', use guile's 'read-line' and iterate until it (eof-object? x) returns true. 2015-03-09T02:29:52Z mark_weaver: tm512: you can convert your hash table to an alist with 'hash-table->alist', which can be written to a file. 2015-03-09T02:30:10Z mark_weaver: then you could 'read' it back in and use 'alist->hash-table' to convert it back into a hash table. 2015-03-09T02:30:26Z mark_weaver: that would give you a better idea of how much memory it takes on its own. 2015-03-09T02:32:22Z mercwithamouth quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-09T02:32:40Z mercwithamouth joined #scheme 2015-03-09T02:33:26Z tm512: not sure how I'd do a read-line iterator 2015-03-09T02:34:55Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later) 2015-03-09T02:35:26Z mark_weaver: (define (mkv-open file) (call-with-input-file file (lambda (port) (do-ec (:port line port read-line) (mkv-build-dict (mkv-parse (string-tokenize line) 3) my-hash))))) 2015-03-09T02:35:34Z mark_weaver: (untested) 2015-03-09T02:36:04Z mark_weaver: (we should really add 'foof-loop' to core guile) 2015-03-09T02:36:20Z Riastradh: Heh. I was about to make a faux-snide comment about ugly SRFI comprehensions. 2015-03-09T02:36:30Z mark_weaver: heh :) 2015-03-09T02:36:42Z tm512: well I'm actually going back to chicken since it's not a problem specific to it 2015-03-09T02:36:48Z mark_weaver: okay 2015-03-09T02:37:16Z mark_weaver: I guess the problem here really is that your heap ends up quite fragmented. 2015-03-09T02:37:38Z mark_weaver: so I guess there's a lot of free space in the holes, but nothing that could be returned to the OS. 2015-03-09T02:38:20Z Riastradh: Fragmented? In Chicken? 2015-03-09T02:38:27Z mark_weaver: if you can reduce your peak memory usage, then I guess that would help a lot 2015-03-09T02:38:32Z Riastradh: Oh, guile? 2015-03-09T02:38:43Z tm512: both 2015-03-09T02:39:13Z tm512: I don't see why my peak memory usage would be much 2015-03-09T02:39:16Z Riastradh: Last I knew, Chicken used a compacting GC, so it shouldn't have a problem with fragmentation. It may be that the maximum heap size before GC is larger than you like, though. 2015-03-09T02:39:27Z mark_weaver: well, with any non-moving collector. Guile's collector is non-moving. I don't know about Chicken's. 2015-03-09T02:39:30Z Riastradh: The maximum heap size before GC is generally going to be dependent on your environment and independent of your program. 2015-03-09T02:40:17Z Riastradh: Chicken probably has a command-line option to set it. 2015-03-09T02:41:00Z Riastradh: (Unless it has gotten smart and decided to update the maximum heap size dynamically based on the fraction of the heap that is live after a GC.) 2015-03-09T02:41:46Z tm512: I'm calling (gc) after every parsed line now 2015-03-09T02:42:14Z tm512: which is really slowing down the reading of log.txt but with promising results so far 2015-03-09T02:52:12Z mark_weaver: the other question is whether Chicken ever returns memory to the OS 2015-03-09T02:53:21Z Riastradh: Unlikely, unless it does the dynamic heap resizing I mentioned. 2015-03-09T02:53:30Z mercwithamouth quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-09T02:54:16Z tm512: it seems to 2015-03-09T02:54:18Z tm512: just not all of it 2015-03-09T02:55:50Z mark_weaver: tm512: does VIRT go down, or just RES ? 2015-03-09T02:56:21Z tm512: just RES, and not as much as I think it should 2015-03-09T02:59:56Z Riastradh: Few if any Scheme systems ever return heap memory to the OS. 2015-03-09T03:00:18Z tm512: so it basically leaks memory then 2015-03-09T03:01:06Z Riastradh: No, not really. 2015-03-09T03:01:54Z Riastradh: If there's no bound to the amount of memory they request, yes. But usually they will just keep reusing the same bounded amount of memory. 2015-03-09T03:05:56Z ghost|ruuns joined #scheme 2015-03-09T03:08:37Z ruuns quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-09T03:22:56Z ecthiender joined #scheme 2015-03-09T03:38:46Z ijp quit (Quit: brb proving riemann hypothesis) 2015-03-09T03:40:07Z jlongste` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-09T03:40:28Z excelsior quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-09T03:41:30Z pjdelport quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-09T03:48:59Z taylanub quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-09T03:49:23Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-09T03:49:47Z taylanub joined #scheme 2015-03-09T03:51:41Z c74d joined #scheme 2015-03-09T03:53:46Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2015-03-09T03:54:49Z tm512: got memory use down a little bit by doing a call-with-input-file 2015-03-09T03:55:48Z ArneBab_ joined #scheme 2015-03-09T03:58:23Z vdamewood joined #scheme 2015-03-09T03:58:50Z ArneBab quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 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