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2015-02-02T00:48:39Z pecg: Hello. What is the difference between ` and '
2015-02-02T00:49:02Z vanila: ` is quasiquote which lets you unquote inside it
2015-02-02T00:49:14Z vanila: `(a b ,(+ 1 2)) ;=> (a b 3)
2015-02-02T00:49:23Z vanila: '(a b ,(+ 1 2)) ;=> (a b (unquote (+ 1 2)))
2015-02-02T00:50:47Z pecg: vanila: Great!
2015-02-02T00:51:32Z pecg: vanila: Thank you very much.
2015-02-02T00:54:43Z pecg: vanila: So ` still quotes whatever not unquoted in the form.
2015-02-02T00:55:27Z vanila: yeah
2015-02-02T00:55:32Z cjh`_ wonders about nested quoting
2015-02-02T00:55:40Z vanila: `(a b ',(+ 1 2)) ;=> (a b (quote 3))
2015-02-02T00:56:17Z vanila: I don't know what happens if you use multiple `
2015-02-02T00:56:41Z cjh`_: ty, I was wondering about multiple quasi and unquotes
2015-02-02T00:56:52Z vanila: im not sure there are multiple levels
2015-02-02T00:56:56Z vanila: would have to check R5RS
2015-02-02T00:56:58Z pecg: vanila: quasiquote form is quoted
2015-02-02T00:58:25Z pecg: `(`(p)) ;=> ((quasiquote (p)))
2015-02-02T00:59:39Z pecg: vanila: So the first quasiquote, quotes (quasi) the second one.
2015-02-02T00:59:50Z vanila: ah that makes sense
2015-02-02T01:00:01Z vanila: i guess ,,1 is an error?
2015-02-02T01:00:18Z cjh`_: (display `(a (+ ,(+ 2 3) (+ 4 5)) ,(+ 1))) ;=> (a (+ 5 (+ 4 5)) 1)
2015-02-02T01:00:24Z cjh`_: using csi that behaves nicely
2015-02-02T01:01:14Z pecg: cjh`_: csi is awesome.
2015-02-02T01:02:33Z cjh`_: I was wondering about the ,(+ 2 3) as it is within a subexpr of the `
2015-02-02T01:02:48Z cjh`_: > (display ,(+ 1 2))
2015-02-02T01:02:51Z cjh`_: > Error: unbound variable: unquote
2015-02-02T01:03:02Z cjh`_: cute, I was assuming it would just always force eval :P
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2015-02-02T01:03:49Z pecg: cjh`_: No, apparently in order for (unquote) to work there has to be a preceding `
2015-02-02T01:04:15Z cjh`_: that makes sense, I had just assumed implementation would cheat, and now I am wondering about where that would matter :P
2015-02-02T01:05:20Z pecg: cjh`_: the primitive (unquote) makes a lot of sense now, since it is design to revert ignore quote and not to force evaluation.
2015-02-02T01:05:40Z pecg: *designed
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2015-02-02T02:53:24Z pecg: Hello, can somebody explain what this s-expressions mean: (x . y)
2015-02-02T02:53:48Z pecg: Actually, to be more specific, I want to know what is the point symbol used for
2015-02-02T02:56:11Z vraid: (x . y) is (cons x y)
2015-02-02T02:57:06Z vraid: so, it's used for cons cells
2015-02-02T02:58:50Z pecg: got it
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2015-02-02T03:10:05Z vraid: pecg: and since nonempty lists are made of cons cells, '(x) is the same as '(x . ()), with '() being the empty list
2015-02-02T03:10:25Z vraid: '(x y) being '(x . (y . ()))
2015-02-02T03:13:05Z pecg: vraid: Thanks
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2015-02-02T11:55:20Z PinealGlandOptic: hi everyone. what is the best source code bases written in Scheme worth studying?
2015-02-02T12:02:38Z pjb: PinealGlandOptic: there are a lot of applications written in scheme.  If you're interested in music, you may try to read OpenMusic (version 2 is written in a scheme implemented in Common Lisp, version 3 is written in the same scheme implemented in C++).
2015-02-02T12:02:48Z pjb: s/OpenMusic/CommonMusic/ sorry.
2015-02-02T12:02:53Z PinealGlandOptic: pjb: thanks!
2015-02-02T12:02:58Z pjb: http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/
2015-02-02T12:03:32Z pjb: Also, notice how writting the application in scheme allow it to change the native language easily :-)
2015-02-02T12:04:06Z pjb: PinealGlandOptic: another good example, would be edwin which is the emacs-like editor that comes with MIT-scheme.
2015-02-02T12:04:14Z PinealGlandOptic: pjb: oh, that's true. professional deformation
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2015-02-02T12:21:10Z PinealGlandOptic: but are there good libraries worth considering? for example, implementing sets?
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2015-02-02T12:50:37Z pjb: All the SRFI libraries.
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2015-02-02T12:51:45Z PinealGlandOptic: pjb: thanks again
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2015-02-02T13:25:46Z taspat: hi, I've asked this in #racket but there is got no answer. Does anyone know why path is cannot be read and write? What is the reason for this?
2015-02-02T13:26:12Z wasamasa retries parsing the sentence
2015-02-02T13:26:22Z wasamasa gives up
2015-02-02T13:27:07Z taspat`: :) sorry i can't parse it either now that I see what i've written
2015-02-02T13:27:17Z wasamasa: lol
2015-02-02T13:27:35Z taspat`: so, in racket, path cannot be passed to read
2015-02-02T13:27:37Z taspat: why?
2015-02-02T13:27:45Z wasamasa: well, chances are that if you cannot explain it to an IRC channel, your computer will have difficulties Doing The Right Thing™ as well
2015-02-02T13:27:56Z pjb: because read uses a port, not a path.
2015-02-02T13:28:11Z pjb: Usually, you have a function named something like "open" to transform a path into a port.
2015-02-02T13:29:23Z pjb: taspat: said otherwise, it is usual (if not justified), that the notion of file has two states: open and closed, and that I/O can be performed only on open states.
2015-02-02T13:30:19Z pjb: I say that, because in some languages, there's no need to "open" a file before reading or writing to it.  It is conceivable to implement such a concept in scheme, as a library.
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2015-02-02T13:31:33Z pjb: There are however some difficulties, in doing that: knowing when to flush and when to close the file (given that the underlying scheme or OS still has this notion).  No choice is good in all cases.
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2015-02-02T13:32:55Z taspat`: here is from the racket docs:
2015-02-02T13:32:56Z taspat: Notice that we will need to convert the path into a string. Why didn’t we just make the blog structure contain paths? Answer: They can’t be used with read and write.
2015-02-02T13:32:57Z taspat:  
2015-02-02T13:32:57Z taspat:  
2015-02-02T13:34:02Z pjb: scheme is a typed programming language: when a function expects a string, and not a path, then you cannot pass it a path.  It's simple as that.
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2015-02-02T13:36:56Z wasamasa: the way `read` is used is demonstrated shortly after that notice even
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2015-02-02T13:38:50Z taspat: pjb: (struct blog (home posts)). Here home and posts can be any type i decide. Now, they choose home to be string(made from path) instead of path.
2015-02-02T13:38:55Z taspat: more from docs:
2015-02-02T13:38:58Z taspat: blog structures can now be read from the outside world with read and written to it with write. But we also need to make sure that everything inside a blog structure is also (transitively) marked as #:prefab.
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2015-02-02T13:39:14Z taspat: and then:
2015-02-02T13:39:15Z taspat: Why didn’t we just make the blog structure contain paths? Answer: They can’t be used with read and write.
2015-02-02T13:40:17Z pjb: I don't understand your question.  What do you want to know?
2015-02-02T13:40:45Z vraid: pjb: he doesn't want to know, he's trolling
2015-02-02T13:41:27Z ecraven: taspat: is that racket?
2015-02-02T13:41:37Z taspat: yes
2015-02-02T13:41:46Z taspat: vraid, what are talking?
2015-02-02T13:41:47Z ecraven: taspat: you might have more luck in #racket then
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2015-02-02T13:41:57Z taspat: I didnt ecraven
2015-02-02T13:42:47Z taspat: pjb, you can build-path object. Then it appears that read function cannot read those objects
2015-02-02T13:42:55Z taspat: so we need to convert them to strings
2015-02-02T13:43:02Z pjb: So?
2015-02-02T13:43:24Z taspat: So is the reason for this?
2015-02-02T13:43:43Z vraid: taspat: paths don't convert to the same strings across platforms
2015-02-02T13:44:02Z LeoNerd: Surely: Because on every possible available OS to run these things on, files can't be read or written simply by path; you have to open them somehow
2015-02-02T13:44:02Z ecraven: taspat: there is no way to write paths portable on racket. thus you have to convert to strings (which aren't portable eitehr)
2015-02-02T13:44:09Z pjb: read comes from the standard (eg. r5rs).  If read could accept path, then paths would have to be specified in the same standard.  And then the r5rs standard would be bigger than 50 pages.
2015-02-02T13:44:25Z pjb: Already that people can't read those 50 pages, imagine if it was 1200 pages like CL standard!
2015-02-02T13:45:10Z taspat: pjb: ty!
2015-02-02T13:45:47Z pjb: perhaps r7rs introduced this notion of path in the standard? I've not read it yet.
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2015-02-02T13:46:27Z ecraven: I don't think it does. the word "path" only occurs in different contexts in r7rs.pdf
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