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2015-01-14T00:43:55Z lixuan_: Hello, I am taking a cs class at my college and they are asking me to develop a function that get the nth smallest of three numbers without using cond, if, boolean values or recursion
2015-01-14T00:44:08Z lixuan_: the only thing you can use are the mathematical functions of scheme
2015-01-14T00:44:13Z lixuan_: can you help me I am stuck :(
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2015-01-14T01:04:56Z sethalves: lixuan_ you can sort of get an if with (and ...) and (or ...) because they are lazy
2015-01-14T01:05:19Z lixuan_: I can't use and/or
2015-01-14T01:05:36Z lixuan_: "You may NOT use cond, if, lists, recursion, Booleans, or other things we’ll get to later in the course "
2015-01-14T01:06:04Z sethalves: can you use max?
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2015-01-14T01:07:26Z lixuan_: Yes!
2015-01-14T01:08:27Z sethalves: (I guess min would make more sense for this)
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2015-01-14T01:09:19Z sethalves: it seems like combining max and min in the proper ways would get you the 1st, 2nd or 3rd smallest of 3 numbers
2015-01-14T01:09:48Z lixuan_: but how do you manage to do dynamically (in function of i) without flow control?
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2015-01-14T01:13:23Z sethalves: i'm not sure.  are you sure you can't define 3 different functions?
2015-01-14T01:13:57Z sethalves: it has to be like (define (nth-smallest n a b c) ...min and max...) ?
2015-01-14T01:14:21Z sethalves: do you get list-ref ?
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2015-01-14T01:29:33Z lixuan_: sethalves: no I don't have list-ref
2015-01-14T01:29:39Z lixuan_: What I am trying to do is to have a function that calculate the coeffient for each a b c
2015-01-14T01:30:05Z lixuan_: if (i 3) for example (* a (get-i 3)) (* b (get-i 2)) (* c (get-i 1))
2015-01-14T01:30:23Z lixuan_: returns 0 for any value different than 1 using abs, modulo and -
2015-01-14T01:30:28Z lixuan_: (define (get-i i)   (abs (- (modulo 1 i) 1)))
2015-01-14T01:30:36Z lixuan_: but it does not work for i=2 and i=1
2015-01-14T01:31:00Z lixuan_: because I compute forbidden values (modulo 1 0) or modulo 1 -1
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2015-01-14T07:14:12Z copycat: http://pasterack.org/pastes/20720
2015-01-14T07:14:15Z copycat: why does this not work :(
2015-01-14T07:14:49Z vanila: thats kind of long to just looka t and say
2015-01-14T07:15:04Z vanila: do you have an idea what specifically is wrong with it?
2015-01-14T07:15:09Z copycat: i could change all the internal definitions of (define (cohen-sutherland line-struct xs ys xb yb)
2015-01-14T07:16:11Z copycat: it defines region1 and region2 and i try to set these values inside the internal functions
2015-01-14T07:16:20Z copycat: but it would look like a mess
2015-01-14T07:21:35Z vanila: mayeb you could do (let ((region1 #f) (region2 #f)) ...) at the start of intersect?
2015-01-14T07:21:43Z vanila: then when you set! it you know where the scope of that set! is
2015-01-14T07:23:44Z copycat: ehm
2015-01-14T07:23:50Z copycat: i think i will try to rewrite it in a cleaner way
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2015-01-14T14:16:30Z BW^-: vanila: around?
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2015-01-14T14:20:02Z BW^-: um
2015-01-14T14:20:09Z BW^-: so how would you guys implement a continuation passing style transformation
2015-01-14T14:20:12Z BW^-: i.e. from cps to "flat"
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2015-01-14T14:42:52Z vanila: hey
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2015-01-14T15:33:08Z oleo: ello ello
2015-01-14T15:33:34Z vanila: hows it going? :)
2015-01-14T15:33:38Z vanila: i guess i missed BW^
2015-01-14T15:34:47Z oleo: BW ?
2015-01-14T15:35:00Z vanila: oh nothing
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2015-01-14T15:35:09Z vanila: just stuf from earlier
2015-01-14T15:35:30Z oleo: ah ok, i'm fine, and onto counting again and probability stuff.....
2015-01-14T15:35:42Z oleo: i have to cover that stuff for once and all....
2015-01-14T15:35:43Z oleo: meh
2015-01-14T15:36:00Z oleo: but it doesn't get into my dreams even hahaha
2015-01-14T15:36:21Z vanila: counting gets pretty interesting
2015-01-14T15:36:34Z vanila: I never did much probability though
2015-01-14T15:39:20Z oleo: well i want that stuff to sit in....
2015-01-14T15:39:35Z oleo: it takes its time
2015-01-14T15:39:38Z vanila: I always meant to read Jaynes probaility book one day
2015-01-14T15:39:49Z oleo: i have found many books by now
2015-01-14T15:40:02Z vanila: I should try implementing the stuff in scheme to help learn it
2015-01-14T15:40:12Z oleo: and almost got firefox to hog my ram....by trying to load them all....
2015-01-14T15:40:29Z oleo: well yes, i'll try some stuff with cl too
2015-01-14T15:41:24Z vanila: that horrible differential notation aways bothered me a lot from calculus
2015-01-14T15:41:42Z vanila: but SICM makes it so clear - probability notation is also horrible, so doing that stuff in scheme might be nice
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2015-01-14T17:26:15Z irdk: I'm going through SICP, but each time I run into exercises now I'm just lost.  I haven't made it through 2 sections of 1.2 because of these mathematical programs it asks you to write.
2015-01-14T17:26:49Z vanila: if you want to learn about the math i could help
2015-01-14T17:27:13Z irdk: I then look up the exercise and have "ah-ha" moments, but I then I feel as though I've cheated.
2015-01-14T17:29:34Z irdk: primarily I'm a VB.net developer and with just recently getting a job.  It's just I feel like I need a bigger picture of computing as a whole and heard countless times that SICP will give you a good run down.
2015-01-14T17:29:55Z vanila: yeah i agree with that
2015-01-14T17:30:09Z vanila: if its hard in some places, that could be something to brush up on
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2015-01-14T17:31:10Z irdk: I understand the concepts, at least I think I do, but it's these math exercises that then make me feel like I just don't.
2015-01-14T17:31:24Z irdk: like fibonacci
2015-01-14T17:32:06Z irdk: daunting to say the least
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2015-01-14T19:58:55Z nijoakim: So, most scheme interpreters I've tried says 'filter' is undefined, but racket does not. Why do they differ? Am I supposed to import something?
2015-01-14T20:04:02Z wasamasa: racket intentionally implements more than scheme
2015-01-14T20:04:17Z wasamasa: asides from that, it must surely be in the appropriate srfi
2015-01-14T20:04:40Z wasamasa: is it SRFI 1?
2015-01-14T20:04:45Z nijoakim: yep
2015-01-14T20:04:50Z wasamasa: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#FilteringPartitioning
2015-01-14T20:04:51Z wasamasa: it is!
2015-01-14T20:05:41Z nijoakim: and can you tell me how to import it from there? (tried (import* srfi-1), but how can I use it after that?
2015-01-14T20:05:56Z nijoakim: (im a huge scheme-noob)
2015-01-14T20:06:32Z wasamasa: depends on your implementation I'm afraid
2015-01-14T20:07:14Z wasamasa: in chicken I can do (use srfi-1)
2015-01-14T20:07:20Z nijoakim: oh, so I can't really write portable programs in scheme using the srfis?
2015-01-14T20:07:40Z wasamasa: forget about the portable part in general
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2015-01-14T20:07:51Z wasamasa: unless r7rs becomes the defacto standard maybe
2015-01-14T20:08:10Z nijoakim: oh, that's too bad...
2015-01-14T20:08:42Z nijoakim: anyways, thanks alot for the help :)
2015-01-14T20:09:48Z wasamasa: you can of course only use what the standard provides you and avoid undefined behaviour
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2015-01-14T20:09:55Z wasamasa: that's how the SRFIs are implemented generally
2015-01-14T20:10:17Z wasamasa: but it doesn't make sense in scheme to restrict yourself to that for general programming
2015-01-14T20:10:50Z wasamasa: things went differently in CL land
2015-01-14T20:11:09Z nijoakim: aha, so is this the reason for the common argument that "scheme is an academic language with no real world application"?
2015-01-14T20:11:22Z wasamasa: where there is implementation-specific behaviour and all that, but people write code that mostly runs on all implementations, but is sprinkled with implementation-specific directives
2015-01-14T20:11:34Z wasamasa: sort of like the #ifdef-hell in C code
2015-01-14T20:11:42Z wasamasa: if that's real-world, then no thanks :P
2015-01-14T20:11:46Z wasamasa: nijoakim: I guess so
2015-01-14T20:12:53Z nijoakim: oh yeah, I agree. #definately hate #ifdef-hell...
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2015-01-14T20:14:07Z wasamasa: wingo wrote a bit about these issues in scheme-land and more generally, the choice of software
2015-01-14T20:14:21Z wasamasa: http://wingolog.org/archives/2013/01/07/an-opinionated-guide-to-scheme-implementations
2015-01-14T20:14:22Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/b3fjhzx
2015-01-14T20:14:23Z wasamasa: http://wingolog.org/archives/2008/07/10/how-to-choose-between-equivalent-options
2015-01-14T20:14:24Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/m3rg6w6
2015-01-14T20:17:02Z nijoakim: thank you, I will check it out!
2015-01-14T20:18:03Z wasamasa: with scheme you will inevitably choose a culture :P
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2015-01-14T20:30:46Z nijoakim: wasamasa: two great reads! thank you once again! for the record, I think I'll go with guile.
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2015-01-14T20:31:23Z wasamasa: ok then
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2015-01-14T20:31:31Z wasamasa: I hope you'll hack on guile emacs :P
2015-01-14T20:32:39Z nijoakim: hehe, i'm actually a vim user ^^
2015-01-14T20:33:14Z wasamasa: since that's the largest project around involving it
2015-01-14T20:33:18Z wasamasa: sort of like neovim
2015-01-14T20:33:30Z wasamasa: which apparently is the greatest thing the vim community has ever tackled
2015-01-14T20:35:38Z gnomon: wasamasa, is it really?  I thought the vim culture mostly viewed neovim as a joke.
2015-01-14T20:35:40Z nijoakim: oh, cool that they are actually replacing elisp, must be a ton of work!
2015-01-14T20:35:57Z wasamasa: nijoakim: not exactly
2015-01-14T20:36:05Z nijoakim: why not?
2015-01-14T20:36:10Z wasamasa: nijoakim: but wingo managed to make guile's vm execute elisp
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2015-01-14T20:36:38Z nijoakim: aha, well that's also cool ^^
2015-01-14T20:36:50Z wasamasa: nijoakim: the thing is that it would be very unmanageable to forsake elisp since so much is written in it
2015-01-14T20:37:24Z wasamasa: no, not wingo
2015-01-14T20:37:25Z wasamasa: bipt
2015-01-14T20:37:27Z wasamasa: damnit
2015-01-14T20:37:28Z wasamasa: anyways
2015-01-14T20:37:35Z nijoakim: yeah, that was my first thought
2015-01-14T20:37:43Z wasamasa: it is cool that you can now run guile in emacs
2015-01-14T20:38:19Z wasamasa: it's not quite there yet, but will hopefully improve over the years
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2015-01-14T20:38:39Z wasamasa: gnomon: well, I've encountered enough people who believed that kind of support of extension languages to be a good thing
2015-01-14T20:39:05Z nijoakim: yes it is, but won't that divide the community... if some things are written in guile and others in elisp.
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2015-01-14T20:39:32Z wasamasa: that is what I'm worrying about to be honest
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