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2015-01-11T00:27:26Z haziz: @wingo: Thanks. Will try, though I am uncertain whether to look under guile or geiser?
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2015-01-11T00:36:02Z taylanub: haziz: Guile I believe
2015-01-11T00:36:29Z taylanub: haziz: (info "(guile) System Commands")
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2015-01-11T00:53:43Z theseb: help! I want to do a dsl with #f replaced by false and #t replace by true..how do that?
2015-01-11T00:54:15Z theseb: (define false #f) and (define true #t) takes care of input but doesn't adjust *output*
2015-01-11T00:54:22Z pjb: First, true is already true, so there's nothing to do about true.
2015-01-11T00:54:39Z pjb: then implement a new display function.
2015-01-11T00:55:19Z pjb: Notice that there are places where you want false to be false even though it's not evaluated: '(true false false true)
2015-01-11T00:55:47Z pjb: Therefore you would still need to do something about that.
2015-01-11T00:56:01Z theseb: pjb: yea...i need more than just a variable set to #f
2015-01-11T00:56:16Z pjb: If your implementation doesn't provide reader macros, then you will have to go full metalinguistical.
2015-01-11T00:56:44Z theseb: pjb: i'll look into that and the display func..thanks
2015-01-11T00:57:03Z theseb: pjb: basically you need a reader macro to replace true with #t and false with #f right?
2015-01-11T00:57:12Z theseb: pjb: and the new display func does the opposite?
2015-01-11T00:57:19Z pjb: yes.
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2015-01-11T00:57:46Z theseb: YEAH!
2015-01-11T00:57:50Z theseb: thanks..i think i get it
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2015-01-11T00:59:44Z taylanub: theseb: if you change the meanings of data, that's not an EDSL anymore, I think
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2015-01-11T01:04:05Z pjb: Well, if you implement a macro with-true-false such as: (with-true-false  (let ((f (lambda (a) (= 0 a)))) (if (display (f 1)) (display "0") (display "1"))))  prints: false 1  then you have it embedded.  Now, the point is that in the scope of with-true-false, = doesn't return #t/#f, but true/false, and if doesn't test for #f, but for false.
2015-01-11T01:04:38Z pjb: theseb: you can implement a macro that provide a scope where the standard operators are remplaced by your own operators.
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2015-01-11T01:09:45Z theseb: pjb: basically my macro has to traverse every element of every sexp looking for a #f
2015-01-11T01:10:11Z theseb: errr..looking for true /false to replace with #t/#f
2015-01-11T01:11:05Z pjb: That could be a way to do it, which would have the advantage to be able to handle external functions.  You'd just wrap all application in the expression  in the macro body, in a function that would convert the values in and out.
2015-01-11T01:12:56Z goglosh: there's reader macro in scheme?
2015-01-11T01:13:10Z pjb: Not in the standards that I know.
2015-01-11T01:13:20Z goglosh: I see
2015-01-11T01:13:20Z pjb: But I've been told that some implementations have them.
2015-01-11T01:13:50Z goglosh: it doesn't have pipes or OS interaction right?
2015-01-11T01:14:05Z pjb: Not in the r5rs standard.
2015-01-11T01:14:10Z pjb: But an implementation such as scsh has them.
2015-01-11T01:14:11Z theseb: pjb: macros transform sexps into other sexps...so it is odd that you could do something similar to output of evaluator since it is NOT an sexp in general
2015-01-11T01:14:41Z pjb: I don't understand.  All lisp objects are sexps.
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2015-01-11T01:15:35Z theseb: pjb: errr sorry...yea...the output of eval is lisp but the side effects ...e.g. of commands to print text to screen are just strings
2015-01-11T01:16:01Z theseb: pjb: so the replacements would have to be done before strings were made
2015-01-11T01:16:07Z pjb: the thing is that you may have lists of operators for which you wouldn't wrap out the parameters.
2015-01-11T01:16:19Z pjb: (with-true-false (display 'false)) --> (display 'false)
2015-01-11T01:16:51Z pjb: (with-true-false (display (if 'false 1 0))) --> (display (if (wrap-out 'false) 1 0))
2015-01-11T01:17:20Z pjb: (define (Wrap-out x) (cond ((eq? x 'false) #f) ((eq? x 'true) #t) (else x)))
2015-01-11T01:17:35Z pjb: and similarly for wrap-in.
2015-01-11T01:18:43Z pjb: (with-true-false (let ((x (if 'false 'false 'true))) (if x 1 0))) -->  (let ((x (wrap-in (if (wrap-out 'false) (wrap-out 'false) (wrap-out 'true))))) (wrap-in (if (wrap-out x) 1 0)))
2015-01-11T01:18:48Z pjb: something like that.
2015-01-11T01:19:45Z theseb: thanks!
2015-01-11T01:20:05Z pjb: An example of the technique (but for CL) is the stepper in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/common-lisp/lisp
2015-01-11T01:20:05Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/kwhjh4n
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2015-01-11T08:03:08Z xyh: vanila: I am reviewing coq now :) <<Software Foundations>> is such a joyful book.
2015-01-11T08:03:24Z vanila: hey :)
2015-01-11T08:03:27Z vanila: I'm working on it too
2015-01-11T08:04:34Z xyh: for real!
2015-01-11T08:04:37Z vanila: also very good http://adam.chlipala.net/cpdt/
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2015-01-11T12:18:36Z alexi5: hello
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2015-01-11T14:12:18Z joobus: anyone here this morning?
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2015-01-11T14:14:06Z LeoNerd: I'm here
2015-01-11T14:14:46Z joobus: so i am a total noob and I've got some questions.
2015-01-11T14:14:52Z joobus: can you help?
2015-01-11T14:15:18Z wasamasa: just ask your questions already
2015-01-11T14:15:46Z joobus: first, is there a best scheme?  i pulled down the gambit repo, built, and installed it last night.
2015-01-11T14:16:08Z wasamasa: ...
2015-01-11T14:16:25Z wasamasa: that question makes as much sense as the one about the best programming language
2015-01-11T14:16:50Z joobus: yeah, i guess. which has the best community/documentation?
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2015-01-11T14:17:08Z joobus: all the stuff i find on the web is from about 8 years ago at best.
2015-01-11T14:17:21Z wasamasa: you aren't looking well enough then
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2015-01-11T14:17:29Z wasamasa: otherwise you'd have found out racket to have pretty good docs
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2015-01-11T14:17:52Z wasamasa: and a healthy community, too
2015-01-11T14:18:02Z joobus: but i am under the impression racket has kind of forked from standard scheme.
2015-01-11T14:18:16Z wasamasa: racket implements scheme and more
2015-01-11T14:18:21Z wasamasa: like most implementations out there
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2015-01-11T14:18:49Z joobus: so how relevant is r5rs vs r6rs vs what racket has?
2015-01-11T14:18:53Z wasamasa: which is totally fine since scheme is a specification in the first place
2015-01-11T14:19:22Z wasamasa: it implements r6rs
2015-01-11T14:21:06Z joobus: ok.
2015-01-11T14:21:13Z wasamasa: to be honest the question about the implemented standard is not that important considering every sufficiently popular implementation can be extended to have whatever it's missing
2015-01-11T14:21:32Z wasamasa: chicken would be the probably second-most popular scheme implementation and is using r5rs
2015-01-11T14:22:07Z joobus: well, but that is true of any language.
2015-01-11T14:22:14Z wasamasa: nope, not necessarily
2015-01-11T14:22:27Z wasamasa: there are enough scheme implementations out there pretty much nobody is using or augmenting
2015-01-11T14:22:56Z joobus: and if a language keeps doing that it basically forks, and then if the crowd doesn't go with them, they wither and die.
2015-01-11T14:23:01Z joobus: i am dealing with this at work with another language.
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2015-01-11T14:23:23Z wasamasa gets the impression joobus is playing someone's advocate
2015-01-11T14:23:25Z joobus: i have found that out
2015-01-11T14:24:02Z joobus: no, i would like to be able to write in a functional language and compile down to machine code, which gambit does, kind of.
2015-01-11T14:24:20Z joobus: i have been playing with clojure for the past several months, but it is wedded to the JVM
2015-01-11T14:24:31Z joobus: which is a drawback imo.
2015-01-11T14:24:41Z joobus: but the scheme community isn't as strong
2015-01-11T14:25:45Z wasamasa: uh, doesn't gambit compile to C?
2015-01-11T14:25:53Z joobus: yeah
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2015-01-11T14:28:19Z joobus: i will check out racket.  thanks.
2015-01-11T14:29:29Z wasamasa: chicken would be my next suggestion given these conditions
2015-01-11T14:29:54Z wasamasa: the focus is different from racket insofar as it does compile to C
2015-01-11T14:30:42Z mlaine: what is wrong with gambit
2015-01-11T14:31:04Z joobus: i am just having trouble with what i was trying to do.
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2015-01-11T14:31:19Z joobus: I was trying to call a c function, very basic.
2015-01-11T14:31:30Z joobus: import <math.h> and call exp2
2015-01-11T14:31:48Z joobus: i just can't get it to compile and execute
2015-01-11T14:31:57Z wasamasa: well, that's hardly a problem with the language :P
2015-01-11T14:32:06Z wingo: http://wingolog.org/archives/2013/01/07/an-opinionated-guide-to-scheme-implementations
2015-01-11T14:32:10Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/b3fjhzx
2015-01-11T14:32:11Z joobus: i am aware.  but the documentation...
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2015-01-11T17:15:50Z _shit_: if you want, I can repost with ease by using a key-combo to access command history...
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2015-01-11T21:19:21Z Pixel_Outlaw: Can anyone help me understand when a promise as defined in scheme might be useful? I see it is a delayed computation which can be evaluated later. I don't think it is the same as delayed evaluation in the sense of a macro.
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2015-01-11T21:26:43Z kongtomorrow: Pixel_Outlaw: Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs goes into delayed computation in that sense in section 3.5 – http://sarabander.github.io/sicp/html/3_002e5.xhtml#g_t3_002e5 . The intro to the chapter might also be useful, http://sarabander.github.io/sicp/html/Chapter-3.xhtml#Chapter-3
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2015-01-11T21:39:28Z Pixel_Outlaw: Thanks I was just viewing SICP videos.
2015-01-11T21:40:06Z Pixel_Outlaw: I'll look at the intro you posted
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2015-01-11T23:17:54Z offby1: Pixel_Outlaw: are you by any chance related to Space_Cowboy?
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2015-01-11T23:23:02Z Pixel_Outlaw: offby1, Nope. :)
2015-01-11T23:23:30Z offby1: Cookie_Monster?
2015-01-11T23:33:31Z Pixel_Outlaw: No, even though C is for Cookie and that's good enough for me.
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2015-01-11T23:34:11Z Pixel_Outlaw: I'm debating learning AutoLisp and seeking employment. It seems quite arcane and a Microsoft only skill though.
2015-01-11T23:34:29Z Pixel_Outlaw: But I need a job that isn't using pleb languages.
2015-01-11T23:36:07Z Pixel_Outlaw: I'm not thrilled about the current jobs all being web and database work.
2015-01-11T23:37:54Z MichaelRaskin: Pixel_Outlaw: and here am I in Moscow, looking for a person to do a thick database-wrapping web app in Common Lisp
2015-01-11T23:38:05Z MichaelRaskin: (I know you are in US)
2015-01-11T23:39:45Z offby1: autolisp is ms only?  I thought autolisp was the CAD thing
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2015-01-11T23:52:02Z Pixel_Outlaw: Well it is, but AutoCAD to my knowledge only is really supported in Microsoft.
2015-01-11T23:52:18Z Pixel_Outlaw: But I do love CAD. :)
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