2015-01-08T00:00:02Z turbofail: the following expressions are what to return from the loop
2015-01-08T00:00:20Z turbofail: in this particular case we don't really care about returning anything
2015-01-08T00:01:08Z Pixel_Outlaw: I think I prefer do to defining a second recursive definition
2015-01-08T00:01:19Z Pixel_Outlaw: It is a lot cleaner and takes less text.\
2015-01-08T00:01:40Z vanila: I never use do, it seems too basic
2015-01-08T00:01:42Z Pixel_Outlaw: working now, thanks
2015-01-08T00:01:54Z turbofail: do loops are great, but limited
2015-01-08T00:02:15Z turbofail: if you need a fancier loop, there's foof-loop
2015-01-08T00:02:40Z Pixel_Outlaw: does that approach the monstrosity that is the LOOP of Common Lisp?
2015-01-08T00:03:10Z turbofail: no, foof-loop has well-defined semantics
2015-01-08T00:03:56Z vanila: lol
2015-01-08T00:04:01Z vanila: LOOP is something
2015-01-08T00:04:22Z Riastradh: I like to think foof-loop is much nicer than CL loop.
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2015-01-08T00:04:35Z Pixel_Outlaw: I'm just playing around with R5RS for now. I might take a look at foof-loop
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2015-01-08T00:05:06Z Riastradh: foof-loop works in R5RS.
2015-01-08T00:05:41Z Pixel_Outlaw: I guess it needs to be copied and pasted in or included as an additional scheme file though.
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2015-01-08T00:06:38Z Pixel_Outlaw: I'm doing a little Perlin Noise generator and as you can imagine, there is lots of pixel by pixel operations in writing. So I'm using high order functions that can modify the vector of pixels.
2015-01-08T00:06:55Z Pixel_Outlaw: Learning scheme through a small project...
2015-01-08T00:08:14Z Pixel_Outlaw: My problem is that I always learn just enough of a language to make my projects but always miss some of the deeper elements.
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2015-01-08T00:49:36Z offby1: *shrug*
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2015-01-08T01:41:09Z Pixel_Outlaw: http://pastebin.com/LGUhiCvA
2015-01-08T01:45:05Z Pixel_Outlaw: In the spirit of "Write in C" to the tune of "Love Is All You Need"
2015-01-08T01:47:07Z vanila: Do you knwo God Wrote in lisp code??
2015-01-08T01:47:15Z vanila: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-OjTPj7K54
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2015-01-08T01:54:11Z Pixel_Outlaw: >:}
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2015-01-08T13:44:09Z eylusion: hello is there any way I can turn an integer into a list of symbols, for example (* 100 100) = (1 0 0 0 0) ?
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2015-01-08T13:47:42Z eylusion: so I can do like a (list (* 100 100)) = (10000)
2015-01-08T13:47:57Z eylusion: and then do a (= first last) on (10000)
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2015-01-08T14:09:15Z pjb: Too bad eylusion left, I would have said him: first, you need to understand how we represent integers in the base system.
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2015-01-08T14:13:29Z wasamasa: what the hell was that
2015-01-08T14:18:07Z pjb: a newbie who doesn't understand base-system number representation.
2015-01-08T14:19:01Z pjb: You can easily infer the newbie part from the fact he left before obtaining an answer.
2015-01-08T14:20:47Z wasamasa: that's more a sign of impatience/lack of knowledge about IRC
2015-01-08T14:24:48Z taylanub: what's wrong about their question though?  that would have worked and returned true, or am I missing something?
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2015-01-08T14:25:31Z pjb: Nothing wrong.  Only he asked yesterday in #clnoobs, and refused to be helped.
2015-01-08T14:27:41Z z0d: taylanub: which part? first and last would probably throw an undefined variable error
2015-01-08T14:28:17Z z0d: I think he wanted a procedure which would turn an integer into a list of digits
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2015-01-08T14:31:25Z taylanub: since I reconnected in that moment, I only received two lines; were there more?
2015-01-08T14:31:53Z taylanub: and it should be safe to assume 'first' and 'last' from SRFI-1 unless specified otherwise
2015-01-08T14:32:24Z pjb: (first digits) and (last digits) then.
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2015-01-08T14:33:05Z z0d: 14:45 <eylusion> hello is there any way I can turn an integer into a list of symbols, for example (* 100 100) = (1 0 0 0 0) ?
2015-01-08T14:33:13Z taylanub: oh heh
2015-01-08T14:33:13Z z0d: that was his original question
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2015-01-08T14:34:39Z taylanub: (string->list (number->string x))
2015-01-08T14:35:10Z pjb: This is excessively complex a solution.
2015-01-08T14:35:15Z taylanub: hahaha
2015-01-08T14:35:35Z taylanub: for a fairly contra-pragmatic definition of "complex"
2015-01-08T14:36:13Z z0d: I'd rather write a procedure for it
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2015-01-08T14:37:26Z taylanub: it would probably depend on the context for me, which I'd prefer; is the intent something "numerologic" or rather textual?..
2015-01-08T14:37:48Z oleo: since it's for math, it is the numbers realm....
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2015-01-08T14:38:20Z pjb: taylanub: context is project Euler #3
2015-01-08T14:38:21Z oleo: welp, pjb already told.....
2015-01-08T14:38:23Z pjb: #4 sorry.
2015-01-08T14:38:35Z taylanub: I see
2015-01-08T14:38:38Z oleo: jep
2015-01-08T14:39:01Z pjb: and since project Euler is not project Lucky Luke, I assume it's about maths, and there's something to learn in finding numbers that are palindromes about the base-system representation.
2015-01-08T14:39:17Z oleo: yes, i think so too
2015-01-08T14:39:43Z oleo: if he is just into a quick hack he can do so by other means....
2015-01-08T14:39:58Z wasamasa: strings!
2015-01-08T14:40:06Z oleo: otherwise, numerics
2015-01-08T14:41:35Z pjb: Yes, you may reuse the conversion algorithm in integer->string.  But if you don't know what you're reusing and why, it's not a good thing to do, for a newbie.
2015-01-08T14:41:51Z pjb: There's a pedagogical aspect to things like project Euler.
2015-01-08T14:42:06Z pjb: Solving those problem without learning anything would be lame.
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2015-01-08T17:07:53Z statethatiamin: Hi, would somebody be interested in answering a question for me? It's about nested macros
2015-01-08T17:08:43Z wasamasa: that's a great narrative to encourage answers
2015-01-08T17:08:59Z wasamasa: in other words, just ask, someone might reply something helpful
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2015-01-08T17:09:11Z statethatiamin: Haha, it's not? How come?
2015-01-08T17:09:14Z statethatiamin: Ok, sure
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2015-01-08T17:10:10Z wasamasa: on IRC you hope for the best and just ask (and stay for a while)
2015-01-08T17:10:11Z statethatiamin: Well, I have a macro to chain functions together recursively
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2015-01-08T17:10:43Z statethatiamin: And I have another macro to reverse the order of the functions
2015-01-08T17:11:08Z statethatiamin: (to make the recursion put them in the right order)
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2015-01-08T17:11:26Z wasamasa: I suspect macros aren't exactly composable since you're essentially defining syntax
2015-01-08T17:11:27Z statethatiamin: So now I have to expand one macro inside of the other
2015-01-08T17:11:42Z statethatiamin: But I can't get it to work, and I've been on it for days :(
2015-01-08T17:12:07Z wasamasa: also, post example code on a website like https://gist.github.com/, that way we have something to work with
2015-01-08T17:12:21Z statethatiamin: Sure, and thank you
2015-01-08T17:12:50Z wasamasa: my earlier remark is pretty much my experience with macros in elisp, it's why I've been using them sparingly
2015-01-08T17:15:05Z wasamasa: anaphoric macros for instance are a good example that demonstrates these pitfalls
2015-01-08T17:19:10Z statethatiamin: I made a gist: https://gist.github.com/tonyfischetti/c5230e63a97d0f1797fe
2015-01-08T17:21:13Z wasamasa: hmm, there must be some way to expand the output of these commands
2015-01-08T17:21:20Z wasamasa: which is tremendously useful for macro development
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2015-01-08T17:22:33Z statethatiamin: I tried using DrRacket's macro expander but to no avail
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2015-01-08T17:37:03Z wasamasa: can you give me something valid that works with >>b?
2015-01-08T17:38:38Z statethatiamin: (>>b '(() (return5) (add6) (display)))
2015-01-08T17:41:01Z wasamasa: hmm
2015-01-08T17:41:07Z wasamasa: >>a won't work with a list though
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2015-01-08T17:41:33Z wasamasa: since it takes the arguments unevaluated
2015-01-08T17:41:47Z wasamasa: >>b gives me a list
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2015-01-08T17:43:40Z statethatiamin: I left it quoted so that its easier to see that it expands correctly, but when using it with >>a I would leave it unquoted, i think
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2015-01-08T18:01:58Z wow: Hello, can someone give me a good book on scheme?
2015-01-08T18:02:38Z LeoNerd: I read SICP then R5RS. Not sure I'd call either a "book" though
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2015-01-08T18:03:56Z wow: Can you give me a link to it?
2015-01-08T18:04:09Z LeoNerd: I suggest typing  SICP  into Google
2015-01-08T18:04:11Z LeoNerd: ditto  R5RS
2015-01-08T18:04:21Z LeoNerd: That's what I was about ot do to provide you with it; so you might as well do that more directly
2015-01-08T18:04:33Z wow: Thanks.
2015-01-08T18:05:22Z wow: But how do I install an interpreter on linux?
2015-01-08T18:05:38Z LeoNerd: Personally I'd   apt-cache search scheme  and see what came up
2015-01-08T18:06:00Z wow: a lot of things
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2015-01-08T18:06:25Z wow: racket?
2015-01-08T18:06:50Z LeoNerd: It's possible
2015-01-08T18:06:51Z stamourv: wow: Racket is good.
2015-01-08T18:06:57Z stamourv is a Racket developer. ;)
2015-01-08T18:07:00Z wow: alright.
2015-01-08T18:07:07Z wow: racket is scheme though, right?
2015-01-08T18:07:14Z stamourv: rudybot: please gom statethatiamin
2015-01-08T18:07:14Z rudybot: stamourv: let's subject ourselves to the gom jabbar test.
2015-01-08T18:07:20Z stamourv: rudybot: please fom statethatiamin
2015-01-08T18:07:20Z rudybot: stamourv: fom me, baby
2015-01-08T18:07:22Z stamourv: er
2015-01-08T18:07:25Z stamourv: rudybot: fom
2015-01-08T18:07:25Z rudybot: stamourv: http://www.greghendershott.com/fear-of-macros/
2015-01-08T18:07:32Z stamourv: statethatiamin: ^
2015-01-08T18:07:44Z stamourv: A good resource for learning about macros.
2015-01-08T18:07:46Z wow: so it's not scheme?
2015-01-08T18:07:54Z LeoNerd: It's a Scheme implementation
2015-01-08T18:08:00Z stamourv: wow: Racket is mostly a superset of scheme.
2015-01-08T18:08:10Z wow: so it's scheme?
2015-01-08T18:08:14Z stamourv: wow: You can use it as Scheme if you like. You can also use it as much more.
2015-01-08T18:08:17Z LeoNerd: It's /a/ Scheme, yes.
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2015-01-08T18:08:37Z wow: Thanks guys.
2015-01-08T18:08:40Z LeoNerd: Scheme is a langauge specification. You can't install and run /Scheme/, as Scheme is an idea. but you can install and run some specific program that implements it
2015-01-08T18:08:43Z LeoNerd: Racket is one such program
2015-01-08T18:08:44Z wow: Also, does scheme have a networking library of some sort?
2015-01-08T18:09:16Z LeoNerd: Like all good abstract language specifications, Scheme knows nothing of networking. But most Scheme implementations should provide all sorts of things like that, yes.
2015-01-08T18:09:28Z wow: I've heard of this thing named tcputils that my friend uses
2015-01-08T18:09:30Z wow: does that exist?
2015-01-08T18:10:07Z stamourv: wow: There is no general scheme networking library, but Racket does provide one.
2015-01-08T18:10:44Z wow: which is?
2015-01-08T18:11:02Z stamourv: rudybot: (require racket/tcp)
2015-01-08T18:11:03Z rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
2015-01-08T18:11:03Z rudybot: stamourv: Done.
2015-01-08T18:11:07Z stamourv: rudybot: doc tcp
2015-01-08T18:11:08Z rudybot: stamourv: not found in any library's documentation: tcp
2015-01-08T18:11:13Z stamourv: rudybot: doc tcp-connect
2015-01-08T18:11:13Z rudybot: stamourv: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/tcp.html#(def._((lib._racket%2Ftcp..rkt)._tcp-connect))
2015-01-08T18:11:18Z wow: Oh, that's great.
2015-01-08T18:11:28Z stamourv: And there's more too.
2015-01-08T18:12:00Z wow: is there a tcputils?
2015-01-08T18:12:06Z wow: rudybot: (require tcputils)
2015-01-08T18:12:07Z rudybot: wow: your sandbox is ready
2015-01-08T18:12:07Z rudybot: wow: error: eval:1:9: collection not found <NEWLINE>   for module path: tcputils <NEWLINE>   collection: "tcputils" <NEWLINE>   in collection directories: <NEWLINE>    /mnt/racket-6.1.1/collects <NEWLINE>    ... [152 additional linked and package directories]
2015-01-08T18:12:34Z stamourv: I don't think there's a library by that name, but I'd expect it to be equivalent.
2015-01-08T18:12:54Z wow: okay.
2015-01-08T18:13:11Z wow: one more thing, how can racket interpret scheme files(.scm)
2015-01-08T18:13:17Z wow: instead of going into the interpreter and typing things
2015-01-08T18:14:01Z stamourv: racket file.scm
2015-01-08T18:14:07Z wow: oh ;)
2015-01-08T18:14:14Z stamourv: That should work if the file is a module.
2015-01-08T18:14:20Z wow: a module?
2015-01-08T18:14:21Z stamourv: Otherwise, you need some flag.
2015-01-08T18:14:23Z stamourv looks.
2015-01-08T18:14:41Z stamourv: -f is the flag you want for a non-module file.
2015-01-08T18:14:50Z wow: racket -f file.scm
2015-01-08T18:15:02Z wow: I guess a module is like a require
2015-01-08T18:15:22Z stamourv: Racket has a module system. It makes it possible to have programs split up in multiple components that depend on each other.
2015-01-08T18:15:41Z stamourv: Right, `require` is what you can use to import a module's definitions from another module.
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2015-01-08T18:20:14Z wow: Thanks for all your help guys. are there things in scheme that I should avoid?
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2015-01-08T18:21:03Z stamourv: wow: I'd try to avoid mutation wherever possible. Makes for high coupling.
2015-01-08T18:21:14Z technomancy: mutation, multiple return values, and internal define IMO
2015-01-08T18:21:50Z technomancy: learn pattern matching early on because it will save you a lot of annoyance
2015-01-08T18:21:57Z wow: Then how can I set a compound to another value?
2015-01-08T18:22:10Z stamourv: wow: Also, a lot of powerful, interesting features (macros, continuations, `eval`) tend to be overused. They're very useful in some contexts, but beginners tend to reach for them when simpler, lower-power features would do just fine. This tends to lead to unreliable code.
2015-01-08T18:22:16Z technomancy: wow: don't do that unless you are hurting for performance
2015-01-08T18:22:18Z wasamasa: wow: bind it lexically
2015-01-08T18:22:37Z technomancy: it's much easier to write correct code if you calculate new values based on old values instead of bashing things in place
2015-01-08T18:22:46Z stamourv: wow: To learn how to program more functionally, I highly recommend the HTDP textbook.
2015-01-08T18:22:51Z stamourv: rudybot: HTDP
2015-01-08T18:22:51Z rudybot: stamourv: error: HTDP: undefined; <NEWLINE>  cannot reference an identifier before its definition <NEWLINE>   in module: 'program
2015-01-08T18:22:55Z stamourv: Hmm.
2015-01-08T18:22:56Z technomancy: yeah, HTDP is the best
2015-01-08T18:23:03Z stamourv: wow: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/
2015-01-08T18:23:12Z wow: thx
2015-01-08T18:23:19Z stamourv: (For the parts that 2e is missing, you can fall back to the first edition.)
2015-01-08T18:23:26Z stamourv: rudybot: how to design programs
2015-01-08T18:23:27Z rudybot: stamourv: [2] PHP is a good example of how not to design a language,
2015-01-08T18:23:37Z stamourv: offby1: Consider the above a feature request. ;)
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2015-01-08T18:24:42Z wow: alright, thanks.
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2015-01-08T18:26:48Z wow: Are there bitwise operators in scheme?
2015-01-08T18:27:51Z wasamasa: you'd better ask what's not there
2015-01-08T18:29:08Z wasamasa: or rather, cannot be easily implemented
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2015-01-08T18:32:08Z wow: I was just reading HTPD
2015-01-08T18:32:11Z wow: There appear to be some images
2015-01-08T18:33:36Z wasamasa: the appeal of scheme is that you can implement pretty much anything you want (including more esoteric programming paradigms) with relatively low overhead
2015-01-08T18:33:49Z wasamasa: racket extends this idea to language design
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2015-01-08T18:36:08Z wow: I just don't like how it mixes pictures and functional programming all over the place.
2015-01-08T18:38:32Z wasamasa: what's the problem with that?
2015-01-08T18:38:59Z wow: Well, i want to learn scheme only.
2015-01-08T18:39:04Z wow: not picolisp or whatever it's called
2015-01-08T18:39:05Z wasamasa: ...
2015-01-08T18:41:39Z wow: By the way, is there a procedure that prints things in scheme?
2015-01-08T18:42:35Z wasamasa: I'll let you figure that one out on your own (hint: how does the commandline interface possibly print out things?)
2015-01-08T18:42:55Z wow: eh... conditions?
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2015-01-08T18:44:15Z wow: displays them?
2015-01-08T18:44:54Z wasamasa: unless you're speaking of physical printers of course
2015-01-08T18:45:03Z wasamasa: since that's something your operating system is concerned with
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2015-01-08T18:48:35Z Riastradh: What was the point of that exercise, wasamasa?
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2015-01-08T18:52:41Z wasamasa: Riastradh: figuring out whether he actually meant the display of a message or actually printing out stuff
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2015-01-08T20:44:04Z turbofail: rudybot: you wouldn't print a scheme, would you?
2015-01-08T20:44:05Z rudybot: turbofail: I've heard you can print millions of forms per hour on them, and that they're used for billing and such.
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2015-01-08T21:09:39Z _sjs: sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm having trouble with running a whole scheme file in the scheme interpreter under emacs, is that possible? I can run single expressions using C-x C-e, but that's giving me errors because I have declared my variables outside of the functions I am trying to run
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2015-01-08T21:22:53Z pjb: _sjs: it is possible to run a whole scheme file in the scheme interpreter under emacs, yes.
2015-01-08T21:23:12Z wasamasa: _sjs: does C-c C-l work?
2015-01-08T21:23:21Z pjb: _sjs: the simple solution is to type (load "yourfile.scm") in the scheme repl.
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2015-01-08T21:24:07Z pjb: C-c C-l would work with slime, if you have a scheme with a swank backend. At one point in time, there was a swank backend implemented in a couple of scheme implementations AFAIK, but I'm don't know which, and I don't know if this has been maintained at all.
2015-01-08T21:24:27Z wasamasa: _sjs: alternatively, selecting the entire file with C-x h and evaluating the region with C-c C-r should do the trick
2015-01-08T21:24:47Z pjb: You could write easily enough a command to bind to C-c C-l, that would send to the inferior-lisp (which is a comint) buffer running the scheme, the required load expression.
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2015-01-08T21:25:42Z pjb: Oh, there is (scheme-load-file FILE-NAME) bound to C-c C-l in run-scheme.  So it should work.
2015-01-08T21:26:01Z pjb: What error do you get? (Check the *Messages* buffer)
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