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2014-12-24T00:14:22Z cky: Alestan: http://pasterack.org/pastes/10639
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2014-12-24T00:17:39Z Alestan: Um, I don't know what you want me to do with that?
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2014-12-24T00:19:55Z Alestan: cky: I don't remember asking any questions here today, so I'm a bit lost. If you mean it is something which doesn't work with my scheme interpreter, I haven't added with-syntax, so I can't say I'm surprised...
2014-12-24T00:22:23Z ijp: Alestan: if you have syntax-case, with-syntax is a pretty simple macro
2014-12-24T00:22:48Z Alestan: Aye, I already added let-syntax that way.
2014-12-24T00:23:26Z Alestan: I'm looking for with-syntax now; but I don't know why cky told me about that paste,
2014-12-24T00:25:34Z Alestan: Also, I need to add the syntax->datum and datum->syntax stuff; I think I can just expose the underlying symbol-lookup function I'm using for that, but I need to double check.
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2014-12-24T00:32:03Z Alestan: Well, I'm not making a lot of sense of this, I'm giving up for now, I'll add with-syntax later.
2014-12-24T00:32:35Z Alestan: Oh, one last thing, what are the [] for in racket?
2014-12-24T00:34:16Z ijp: same as (), but they are used in ceertain places by convention
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2014-12-24T00:46:18Z technomancy: is misusing [] in racket looked down upon in the same way as putting parens on their own line, or is it less heretical?
2014-12-24T00:46:52Z vanila: what do you mean misusing?
2014-12-24T00:47:22Z ijp: technomancy: if someone did (+ [* 3 x] [* 4 y]) it would raise *my* eyebrows at least
2014-12-24T00:47:36Z ijp: I don't know if there is an official position
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2014-12-24T00:48:58Z ijp: the non-normative appendix C in the r6rs says "Even though matched square brackets are synonymous with parentheses in the syntax, many programmers use square brackets only in a few select places. In particular, programmers should restrict use of square brackets to places in syntactic forms where two consecutive open parentheses would otherwise be common."
2014-12-24T00:50:28Z LeoNerd: typically (let ([one 1] [two 2] ...)
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2014-12-24T00:51:06Z ijp: it does go on to list the relevant forms in the report
2014-12-24T00:51:08Z vanila: I wouldn't cal that misusing, some purists might get annoyed about it but its quite normal
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2014-12-24T00:51:27Z ijp: it's not normal
2014-12-24T00:53:31Z Alestan: Okay, that's what I thought; similar to use of { and [ in mathematics simply to allow the viewer to see what's going on more easily.
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2014-12-24T00:55:01Z ijp: http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs-app/r6rs-app-Z-H-5.html#node_chap_C
2014-12-24T00:55:25Z vanila: ive started doing it myself
2014-12-24T00:55:33Z vanila: even though i was always "against" it ...
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2014-12-24T01:04:36Z Alestan: Hm, I'm not sure if I should make the parser try to handle it or not, I'm using the a[b] notation for python's __getitem__ function currently. I don't know if I can get the tokenizer to handle it properly, Looks like racket uses {} as well; I could easily add that.
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2014-12-24T01:11:32Z cky: Alestan: You wanted to know how to do syntax matching without having to actually create a macro.
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2014-12-24T01:14:24Z Alestan: Ah, I do remember that, that all makes sense then.
2014-12-24T01:15:29Z cky: :-D
2014-12-24T01:16:13Z cky: Alestan: `with-syntax` is a convenient macro that wraps `syntax-case`, so everything under the covers is a `syntax-case`.
2014-12-24T01:16:42Z cky: Which means, yes, you can use `syntax-case` to match syntax directly, without having to create a macro.
2014-12-24T01:18:47Z Alestan: Right, I think I see that with your example.
2014-12-24T01:19:08Z Alestan: How complex is implementing with-syntax with syntax-case?
2014-12-24T01:20:27Z ijp: like 6 lines
2014-12-24T01:21:37Z Alestan: I'm finding lots of examples using with-syntax...
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2014-12-24T01:22:09Z ijp: basically with-syntax is to syntax-case what let is to lambda
2014-12-24T01:22:27Z ijp: and is correspondingly simple to implement
2014-12-24T01:22:34Z Alestan: Ah, found it.
2014-12-24T01:24:04Z Alestan: I see what you mean.
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2014-12-24T01:30:04Z Alestan: Hm, my pattern matcher seems to have a problem...
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2014-12-24T01:30:28Z Alestan: Or not, racket chokes on it too.
2014-12-24T01:34:18Z Alestan: So back to trying to figure out how to write with-syntax...
2014-12-24T01:36:11Z ijp: I couldn't give you more hints without writing it for you
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2014-12-24T01:39:43Z Alestan: I'm aware of this, I'm just also tired. I think I'll probably do it tomorrow when I can see straight.
2014-12-24T01:43:31Z xyh: vanila: https://www.refheap.com/95360
2014-12-24T01:43:35Z xyh: :)
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2014-12-24T01:44:15Z vanila: :)
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2014-12-24T01:53:25Z Alestan: Thanks for the help guys, I'm calling it a night.
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2014-12-24T06:17:54Z Pixel_Outlaw: Anyone know of a scheme that is like a single header file to embed into C++?
2014-12-24T06:20:01Z Pixel_Outlaw: C++ is such a detestable language that you must embed a smaller scripting language into it to get anything done with expression. -_-
2014-12-24T06:20:14Z vanila: that's a really cool idea but I dont know of one
2014-12-24T06:21:59Z adu: Pixel_Outlaw: you could probably just take guile.h thru gcc -E
2014-12-24T06:22:01Z Pixel_Outlaw: Most embeddable things I've found want to be compiled into a shared library and I'd rather just slam the header in.
2014-12-24T06:22:58Z adu: Pixel_Outlaw: Chibi is mostly headers
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2014-12-24T06:23:22Z adu: (and I mean that as a compliment, not as an insult)
2014-12-24T06:24:08Z Pixel_Outlaw: I'll have to check it out. Hopefully it garbage collects. :) I read somewhere that some do not.
2014-12-24T06:24:23Z adu: Chibi has GC and a VM iirc
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2014-12-24T06:24:55Z Pixel_Outlaw: Very cool! This may do what I need.
2014-12-24T06:25:15Z adu: You might also look at scheme->c
2014-12-24T06:25:45Z adu: it produces really ugly C code, but it works
2014-12-24T06:26:15Z adu: my scheme is not written in C, but if it were, I would totally plug it here
2014-12-24T06:27:31Z Pixel_Outlaw: It might be worth reading, I'm interested to see how you work around the typing system of C while not breaking anything. Probably void pointers I'd assume.
2014-12-24T06:27:59Z Pixel_Outlaw: CAR and CAR of each CONS being a void *.
2014-12-24T06:28:01Z vanila: in C i've used a tagged union to represent data
2014-12-24T06:28:38Z vanila: http://lpaste.net/117139
2014-12-24T06:28:50Z Pixel_Outlaw: I've tried a few times to do Scheme in C++ but in the end it is always a huge pain generating many switch cases for determining what a CONS is.
2014-12-24T06:29:08Z Pixel_Outlaw: Rather what the CAR and CDR types are.
2014-12-24T06:29:47Z adu: guile has an interesting way of doing it
2014-12-24T06:29:53Z Pixel_Outlaw: vanila, do you find yourself having to have a lot of case statements when using the flags?
2014-12-24T06:30:10Z vanila: not really
2014-12-24T06:30:16Z adu: vanila: are you following me?
2014-12-24T06:30:30Z vanila: adu, what do you mean?
2014-12-24T06:30:40Z adu: lol
2014-12-24T06:31:25Z adu: Pixel_Outlaw: I've never understood C++
2014-12-24T06:33:22Z adu: iirc, guile represents everything in 2 bits, with fine-grained distinctions in other bits
2014-12-24T06:34:53Z Pixel_Outlaw: adu, It is a very complex mess of a language IMHO with too many undefined rules and complexity that spirals out of the combination of low level memory manipulation coupled with a very complex class system.
2014-12-24T06:35:26Z Pixel_Outlaw: Now there are like 5 kinds of pointer.
2014-12-24T06:35:28Z Pixel_Outlaw: -_-;
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2014-12-24T06:36:39Z adu: I think I've gotten pretty far in my career without C++, whenever anyone asks me if I know C++, even for an interview at a company that uses only C++, I tell them that I know enough about the language to know that I don't want to.
2014-12-24T06:36:49Z Pixel_Outlaw: Amen to that.
2014-12-24T06:36:58Z Pixel_Outlaw: Then you say you like lisp and they think your a dinosaur.
2014-12-24T06:37:01Z Pixel_Outlaw: Annoying.
2014-12-24T06:37:16Z Pixel_Outlaw: *you're
2014-12-24T06:37:54Z adu: No, then I tell them I wrote a window system in javascript and a scheme in go, and then they look at me funny
2014-12-24T06:38:51Z Pixel_Outlaw: lol
2014-12-24T06:39:14Z Pixel_Outlaw: I don't know any of the web languages. Browsers proved too frustrating.
2014-12-24T06:39:27Z Pixel_Outlaw: Which HIGHLY limits my employment choices.
2014-12-24T06:39:41Z adu: The browsers aren't really the problem anymore, the new issue is discoverability
2014-12-24T06:40:27Z adu: there's like 5000 specifications that define what "the web" is, which browser feature are you going to use?
2014-12-24T06:40:36Z Pixel_Outlaw: Yeah...
2014-12-24T06:40:49Z adu: like to make a table
2014-12-24T06:40:55Z adu: you can use
2014-12-24T06:41:02Z Pixel_Outlaw: I just don't like depending on a virtual machine (browser) to render my program if that makes sense. It is not a popular view that I hold.
2014-12-24T06:41:53Z adu: or divs+css, or divs+css3-grids, or svg, or mathml , or