2014-11-30T00:00:09Z Guest14316 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T00:00:28Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T00:05:32Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:05:47Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T00:05:47Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:08:11Z taylanub quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-11-30T00:08:39Z scoofy: how are the literal chars '(' and ')' represented in scheme
2014-11-30T00:08:42Z scoofy: ?
2014-11-30T00:08:47Z taylanub joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:09:17Z vraid: try #\( and #\)
2014-11-30T00:09:42Z scoofy: does that work inside a string?
2014-11-30T00:09:52Z scoofy: or can they be used inside a string?
2014-11-30T00:11:13Z vraid: they can be used inside a string, " " actually take precedence over ( )
2014-11-30T00:11:20Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:12:40Z Vutral joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:16:19Z c107` joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:17:25Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:19:00Z scoofy: thanks.
2014-11-30T00:19:01Z Natch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-30T00:19:18Z scoofy: '#' means character
2014-11-30T00:19:19Z scoofy: ?
2014-11-30T00:19:31Z scoofy: character prefix?
2014-11-30T00:19:40Z Natch joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:19:41Z vraid: #\ is character prefix
2014-11-30T00:19:52Z scoofy: so #\a == 'a'
2014-11-30T00:19:53Z vraid: # usually denotes an explicit value
2014-11-30T00:19:59Z scoofy: example?
2014-11-30T00:20:31Z vraid: #(1 2 3)
2014-11-30T00:20:43Z vraid: is a vector
2014-11-30T00:20:56Z scoofy: how is that different from, (1 2 3) ?
2014-11-30T00:21:01Z scoofy: in that case, 1 were taken as a command?
2014-11-30T00:21:35Z vraid: (1 2 3) will be parsed as (invalid) code
2014-11-30T00:21:43Z scoofy: why
2014-11-30T00:21:53Z scoofy: cannot that mean function '1' with arguments '2' and '3' ?
2014-11-30T00:22:02Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-30T00:22:36Z vraid: scoofy: it's a bad example since numbers can't be redefined
2014-11-30T00:22:54Z c107`: (a b c)
2014-11-30T00:22:56Z vraid: 1 is always the value 1
2014-11-30T00:23:00Z scoofy: i thought they can be redefined
2014-11-30T00:23:01Z vraid: (a b c) can be valid
2014-11-30T00:23:08Z scoofy: (define 1 0)
2014-11-30T00:23:23Z vraid: scoofy: no, you need at least one non-digit in the name
2014-11-30T00:23:40Z c107`: (define a cons) (a b (c))
2014-11-30T00:24:28Z scoofy: i have a question
2014-11-30T00:24:48Z scoofy: there is a program that parses a tcl script, and outputs syntax tree
2014-11-30T00:24:55Z c107`: (valid-scheme? ((define a cons) (a b (c))))
2014-11-30T00:25:00Z scoofy: i transformed that (poorly) to look like scheme:
2014-11-30T00:25:02Z scoofy: http://morpheus.spectralhead.com/s/scheme.txt
2014-11-30T00:25:13Z scoofy: does this look like something that could be turned into a compiler, written in scheme?
2014-11-30T00:25:49Z scoofy: now some quoting and some stuff is obviously messed up now
2014-11-30T00:29:35Z vraid: scoofy: #t and #f are other examples of explicit values
2014-11-30T00:30:01Z scoofy: do they mean '1' and '0' ?
2014-11-30T00:30:15Z scoofy: or !0 and 0 ?
2014-11-30T00:30:23Z vraid: no, they are boolean values
2014-11-30T00:30:45Z scoofy: what happens when you compare #t with '1'
2014-11-30T00:30:51Z vraid: it's not the same
2014-11-30T00:31:00Z scoofy: so #t=='1' --> #f
2014-11-30T00:31:06Z vraid: indeed
2014-11-30T00:31:10Z scoofy: what does #t equal with?
2014-11-30T00:31:17Z vraid: itself only
2014-11-30T00:31:23Z vraid: same with #f
2014-11-30T00:31:27Z scoofy: what is 'opposite of #f' ?
2014-11-30T00:31:38Z scoofy: like, logic negation
2014-11-30T00:31:42Z vraid: #t
2014-11-30T00:31:48Z scoofy: no, i mean
2014-11-30T00:31:59Z scoofy: do you know the '!' operator in c?
2014-11-30T00:32:13Z vraid: (not #f) -> #t
2014-11-30T00:32:15Z vraid: (not #t) -> #f
2014-11-30T00:32:29Z scoofy: rubybot: (equal #t (not #f))
2014-11-30T00:32:41Z scoofy: rudybot: (equal #t (not #f))
2014-11-30T00:32:41Z rudybot: scoofy: error: equal: undefined; <NEWLINE>  cannot reference an identifier before its definition <NEWLINE>   in module: 'program
2014-11-30T00:32:50Z scoofy: how do you compare them
2014-11-30T00:33:00Z vraid: rudybot: (eq? #t (not #f))
2014-11-30T00:33:01Z rudybot: vraid: your sandbox is ready
2014-11-30T00:33:01Z rudybot: vraid: ; Value: #t
2014-11-30T00:33:17Z scoofy: so it's not true that #t only equals itself
2014-11-30T00:33:20Z scoofy: #t also equals (not #f)
2014-11-30T00:33:29Z vraid: that's because (not #f) is #t
2014-11-30T00:33:40Z scoofy: no, (not #f) is (not #f)
2014-11-30T00:33:42Z vraid: scoofy: it's like saying 2 equals not only 2, but also 1+1
2014-11-30T00:33:57Z scoofy: no, if you say 1 doesnt equal 'true'
2014-11-30T00:34:15Z scoofy: then i'm interested what else 'true' equals, if it doesn't equal neither 1 nor 'nonzero'
2014-11-30T00:34:25Z scoofy: rudybot: (eq? #t 1)
2014-11-30T00:34:25Z rudybot: scoofy: ; Value: #f
2014-11-30T00:34:31Z scoofy: rudybot: (eq? #t (not 0))
2014-11-30T00:34:31Z rudybot: scoofy: ; Value: #f
2014-11-30T00:34:43Z vraid: scoofy: unlike C, numbers can't be used as booleans in scheme
2014-11-30T00:34:48Z scoofy: i realize
2014-11-30T00:34:59Z scoofy: what do give boolean results? logic comparisons? what else
2014-11-30T00:35:47Z vraid: rudybot: (member 1 '(1 2 3))
2014-11-30T00:35:47Z rudybot: vraid: ; Value: '(1 2 3)
2014-11-30T00:35:52Z vraid: rudybot: (member 0 '(1 2 3))
2014-11-30T00:35:52Z rudybot: vraid: ; Value: #f
2014-11-30T00:37:01Z scoofy: to learn scheme, what would be the best? learn some standard like r5rs?
2014-11-30T00:38:10Z scoofy: eventually, i would make a compiler, but maybe i should start with something simpler.
2014-11-30T00:44:54Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T00:45:28Z taylanub: scoofy: R7RS-small is the update to R5RS
2014-11-30T00:45:54Z scoofy: nice
2014-11-30T00:46:04Z scoofy: i hear, r6rs became some large ugly thing/
2014-11-30T00:46:15Z scoofy: ? (sorry, ? char is messed up on my keyb)
2014-11-30T00:46:24Z taylanub: "ugly" is subjective.  it had issues, but then R7RS-small lacks features...
2014-11-30T00:46:44Z scoofy: sure, i mean, compared to the original ideal of scheme as a tiny, clean core language
2014-11-30T00:47:11Z scoofy: well, i'd prefer some minimal language to work with
2014-11-30T00:47:22Z scoofy: actually this is why i choose to learn scheme
2014-11-30T00:47:39Z taylanub: I prefer to go with R7RS because I think it has more of a future and moves forward a little more conservatively, with less chance of introducing things which will be regretted one day, but R6RS has some significant features which are missing in R7RS...
2014-11-30T00:48:06Z scoofy: can you give some examples of those?
2014-11-30T00:48:16Z taylanub: syntax-case
2014-11-30T00:48:26Z scoofy: what does that do?
2014-11-30T00:48:46Z vraid: pattern-matching macros
2014-11-30T00:48:47Z taylanub: allow you to write procedural macros as opposed to template-only ones
2014-11-30T00:49:05Z vraid: or am i mistaken?
2014-11-30T00:49:33Z taylanub: syntax-rules is purely pattern matching.  syntax-case also does pattern matching though.
2014-11-30T00:49:48Z scoofy: pattern matchin, as like 'regexp' ?
2014-11-30T00:50:03Z vraid: ah, all right
2014-11-30T00:50:08Z taylanub: scoofy: not exactly...
2014-11-30T00:50:16Z scoofy: how does it look like
2014-11-30T00:51:07Z taylanub: say you have a list (1 2 3).  you could match that like (match the-list ((x y z) (+ x y z))) where (x y z) is the "pattern" and the other is a snippet of code that will be run with the matches bound to those symbols as variables
2014-11-30T00:51:27Z taylanub: could also have, say (1 2 (3 4)), then you can also match that with (x y z), and this time z is (3 4)
2014-11-30T00:51:50Z taylanub: can also use '...' in a pattern meaning something must repeat, etc.
2014-11-30T00:52:00Z scoofy: could the 'match' also contain subtrees?
2014-11-30T00:52:07Z scoofy: the pattern to look for?
2014-11-30T00:52:21Z taylanub: I gotta go, you can read about it on the web
2014-11-30T00:52:27Z scoofy: k, thanks
2014-11-30T01:19:02Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T01:20:57Z oldskirt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T01:22:32Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T01:50:10Z bjz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T01:50:40Z bjz joined #scheme
2014-11-30T02:07:22Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T02:08:21Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T02:10:06Z excelsior joined #scheme
2014-11-30T02:18:19Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T02:22:45Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T02:23:05Z xyh joined #scheme
2014-11-30T02:29:57Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T02:30:17Z tobik quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-30T02:31:33Z tobik joined #scheme
2014-11-30T02:38:42Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T02:56:24Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T02:59:28Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T03:00:31Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T03:01:27Z karswell joined #scheme
2014-11-30T03:14:59Z systemovich quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T03:18:02Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T03:30:30Z Vutral joined #scheme
2014-11-30T03:36:58Z xyh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T03:39:40Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T03:41:36Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T03:44:41Z karswell joined #scheme
2014-11-30T03:52:51Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-30T03:59:17Z b4283 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T04:02:37Z xyh joined #scheme
2014-11-30T04:10:34Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T04:19:06Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T04:19:29Z oleo__ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T04:20:09Z oleo is now known as Guest25969
2014-11-30T04:20:51Z Guest25969 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-30T04:23:53Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-30T04:56:19Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T04:56:51Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T05:02:15Z b4283 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-30T05:06:24Z b4283 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T05:12:51Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T05:18:52Z Rodya_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T05:22:05Z hypermagic quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T05:27:28Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T05:29:40Z mdibound quit (Quit: Be back later ...)
2014-11-30T05:32:10Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T05:34:28Z hypermagic joined #scheme
2014-11-30T05:36:52Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T05:37:13Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T05:38:12Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme
2014-11-30T05:53:41Z karswell joined #scheme
2014-11-30T05:53:52Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T05:54:19Z alezost joined #scheme
2014-11-30T06:12:36Z pjdelport quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-11-30T06:19:43Z TheLastExile quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-30T06:19:57Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T06:21:58Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T06:23:21Z jewel joined #scheme
2014-11-30T06:24:33Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T06:32:55Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T06:36:26Z kongtomorrow quit
2014-11-30T06:37:26Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T06:37:41Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T06:38:14Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-30T06:43:07Z rtra joined #scheme
2014-11-30T06:45:07Z amgarchIn9 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-30T06:56:17Z Bahman quit (Quit: Ave atque vale)
2014-11-30T06:58:18Z kazimir42 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T07:06:39Z xyh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T07:35:13Z joneshf-laptop quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T07:35:23Z joneshf-laptop joined #scheme
2014-11-30T07:37:14Z pnpuff joined #scheme
2014-11-30T07:52:10Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T07:54:16Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T08:20:55Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T08:21:38Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T08:25:41Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T08:25:57Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T08:33:56Z excelsior quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-30T09:08:20Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T09:27:18Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T09:41:22Z derek_c quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T09:59:12Z oldskirt joined #scheme
2014-11-30T10:00:15Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-30T10:01:00Z cibs joined #scheme
2014-11-30T10:02:01Z oldskirt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T10:02:24Z alexey1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T10:03:34Z oldskirt joined #scheme
2014-11-30T10:07:03Z hypermagic: hello my friends
2014-11-30T10:10:26Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T10:11:39Z cibs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-30T10:14:52Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-30T10:17:46Z kazimir42 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T10:18:22Z cibs joined #scheme
2014-11-30T10:27:54Z hypermagic quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T10:41:27Z hypermagic joined #scheme
2014-11-30T11:04:11Z BitPuffin joined #scheme
2014-11-30T11:14:36Z oldskirt_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T11:14:36Z oldskirt_ quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T11:14:36Z oldskirt_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T11:16:09Z oldskirt quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-30T11:18:14Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T11:18:14Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T11:18:14Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T11:41:10Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T11:45:45Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T11:55:48Z hiroaki joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:03:11Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:07:45Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-30T12:11:52Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T12:14:37Z ecraven: Riastradh: does SOS have an (undocumented) MOP for creating custom slot options or intercepting read/write access to slots?
2014-11-30T12:15:29Z amgarchIn9 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T12:23:50Z zv joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:24:28Z zv quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T12:25:25Z zv joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:25:57Z zv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T12:28:53Z zv joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:35:13Z stepnem joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:35:51Z fantazo joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:36:14Z oleo__ is now known as oleo
2014-11-30T12:42:37Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T12:46:41Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:46:41Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T12:46:41Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:50:31Z haroldwu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-30T12:51:22Z haroldwu joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:52:31Z jusss joined #scheme
2014-11-30T12:57:43Z hiroaki joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:01:40Z pjdelport joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:06:05Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T13:07:36Z jusss joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:16:10Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T13:17:04Z jusss joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:17:08Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2014-11-30T13:27:06Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T13:27:11Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T13:27:20Z jusss` joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:29:55Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:32:24Z jusss` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T13:33:02Z jusss` joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:34:23Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-30T13:35:54Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-30T13:42:53Z jusss`` joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:43:57Z bjz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T13:44:01Z taylanub quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-11-30T13:44:25Z bjz_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:44:30Z taylanub joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:45:50Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T13:46:55Z jusss` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-30T13:48:57Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T13:57:27Z jusss`` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T13:58:37Z fikusz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-30T13:59:13Z fikusz joined #scheme
2014-11-30T14:04:03Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T14:08:34Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T14:21:35Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2014-11-30T14:27:51Z andreaparthemore joined #scheme
2014-11-30T14:29:40Z andreaparthemore left #scheme
2014-11-30T14:30:41Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T14:35:33Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T14:37:35Z leo2007 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T14:41:05Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later)
2014-11-30T14:41:30Z davexunit joined #scheme
2014-11-30T14:44:45Z oleo joined #scheme
2014-11-30T14:53:28Z oldskirt_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T14:55:37Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-30T15:05:22Z oldskirt joined #scheme
2014-11-30T15:13:08Z davexunit quit (Quit: Later)
2014-11-30T15:13:31Z davexunit joined #scheme
2014-11-30T15:18:09Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T15:22:49Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2014-11-30T15:31:25Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T15:35:53Z mdibound quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T15:39:20Z _5kg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T15:43:38Z BitPuffin joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:05:07Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:05:47Z mdibound joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:06:59Z leppie quit
2014-11-30T16:07:44Z mdibound quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-30T16:08:42Z leppie joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:09:04Z Riastradh: ecraven: Yes, there is.  Can't tell you much about it -- UTSL, &c.
2014-11-30T16:09:17Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T16:11:47Z kazimir42 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:15:35Z theseb joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:18:04Z daviid joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:20:16Z ecraven: Riastradh: thanks :)
2014-11-30T16:40:32Z Bahman joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:47:17Z civodul joined #scheme
2014-11-30T16:54:43Z FlyingChicken joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:00:39Z oldskirt_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:04:21Z oldskirt quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T17:05:20Z TrueShif1Blue quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T17:06:34Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:06:34Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T17:06:34Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:07:01Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:07:41Z xyh joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:09:00Z oleo__ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:09:04Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-30T17:09:39Z oleo is now known as Guest49800
2014-11-30T17:10:31Z TrueShiftBlue joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:10:50Z Guest49800 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-30T17:11:36Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T17:18:08Z FlyingChicken quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-11-30T17:19:09Z Pixel_Outlaw joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:25:30Z jumblerg_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:26:05Z xyh: what is FASL ?? a VM ?
2014-11-30T17:26:48Z ecraven: an abbreviation of FASt-Load, I believe
2014-11-30T17:26:55Z jumblerg quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T17:27:27Z ijp quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T17:27:46Z ijp joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:28:21Z xyh: https://code.google.com/p/owl-lisp/wiki/OwlManual
2014-11-30T17:30:16Z xyh: so FASL is another name of VM-img then  ..
2014-11-30T17:30:34Z xyh: * another term
2014-11-30T17:31:23Z cojy: no it's not
2014-11-30T17:31:48Z cojy: fasl is just a faster loading version than a text file
2014-11-30T17:32:03Z cojy: and is sometimes not portable
2014-11-30T17:32:56Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2014-11-30T17:33:33Z oleo__ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:33:43Z oleo__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T17:33:46Z cojy: somewhat like, but less than bytecode
2014-11-30T17:34:58Z oleo__ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:35:19Z oleo__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T17:35:20Z xyh: I ll looking into the source above. (I am reviewing implementations
2014-11-30T17:36:37Z oleo__ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:37:13Z oleo__ quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-30T17:39:23Z oleo joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:40:26Z githogori quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T17:43:19Z pnpuff joined #scheme
2014-11-30T17:50:10Z jumblerg_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T17:50:40Z frkout_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-30T17:56:04Z _5kg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:00:24Z rx_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:04:28Z githogori joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:04:45Z xyh: anyone knows dream scheme ?
2014-11-30T18:04:48Z leppie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T18:04:55Z leppie joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:05:53Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:07:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:07:22Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T18:07:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:09:17Z leppie quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T18:10:23Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-30T18:11:13Z ijp: what about it?
2014-11-30T18:11:47Z ijp: it's just the sicp chapter 5 interpreter ported to asm
2014-11-30T18:12:55Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-11-30T18:13:57Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T18:15:40Z xyh: the code base is lovely clean, and it compiles scheme-asm to gas, looks funny
2014-11-30T18:16:52Z xyh: * sexp-asm to gas
2014-11-30T18:17:53Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-11-30T18:20:27Z xyh: what build system chicken uses ? it has its own build system  ?
2014-11-30T18:21:18Z offby1: why not download the code and see?
2014-11-30T18:24:10Z BitPuffin joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:24:57Z Pixel_Outlaw: ijp, it must be very fast no?
2014-11-30T18:28:59Z ijp: benchmark and find out
2014-11-30T18:30:23Z fantazo joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:31:40Z xyh: Pixel_Outlaw: what very fast ? dream scheme's interpreter ??
2014-11-30T18:32:34Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:32:43Z Pixel_Outlaw: I just assumed that most lisps were written in C and not ASM.
2014-11-30T18:33:03Z ijp: by sheer quantity, most lisps are written in lisp
2014-11-30T18:35:04Z TheCommieDuck joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:35:51Z xyh: the fastest implementation (interpreter) I ever used is ikraus
2014-11-30T18:36:12Z TheCommieDuck: Hey. Just to confirm I'm right in thinking..a CPS-style is providing an additional argument to a function (which takes a closure), which contains a record of all the computation to be done..then when the base case of the recursion is reached, the closure is evaluated?
2014-11-30T18:36:29Z TheCommieDuck: (unless I'm using the word closure wrongly.)
2014-11-30T18:37:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:37:22Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T18:37:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:38:05Z cojy: that doesn't sound right TheCommieDuck
2014-11-30T18:38:08Z ijp: well, recursion has nothing to do with it
2014-11-30T18:38:35Z ijp: but otherwise, it's close enough
2014-11-30T18:39:04Z xyh: TheCommieDuck: * "when the tail of a function-body been reached"
2014-11-30T18:39:04Z TheCommieDuck: erp.
2014-11-30T18:39:12Z TheCommieDuck: xyh: that sounds more like it, yes
2014-11-30T18:40:13Z TheCommieDuck: but the basic idea is to keep a record of the computation to be done and perform it when the tail is reached, rather than computing as it goes along..right?
2014-11-30T18:41:10Z ijp: it's not about delaying the computation
2014-11-30T18:41:23Z Pixel_Outlaw: ijp, I've tried to do a little tinkering around in C++ trying to get lisp like CONS cells. It is amazing that people are able to implement a flexable language in such a rigid language.
2014-11-30T18:41:26Z cojy: I don't like the word record for that but sort of, the idea is to break it up into atomic pieces that call their continuation instead of returning, giving more explicit control flow
2014-11-30T18:41:57Z TheCommieDuck: I'm not sure how much is me not getting terminology that fits, or me having the wrong idea, heh.
2014-11-30T18:42:14Z ijp: you are always doing some computation, it's just that you keep a note of what you still have to do later
2014-11-30T18:43:36Z ijp: Pixel_Outlaw: over time you will realise just how trivial universal computation is
2014-11-30T18:43:44Z ijp: it's almost depressing
2014-11-30T18:44:19Z TheCommieDuck: cojy, ijp: thanks :)
2014-11-30T18:44:42Z xyh: TheCommieDuck: I think it is that, the syntax of scheme [sexp] is hiding the order of computations, you have to use another style [hard to read style] to write program to get the order of computations again.
2014-11-30T18:51:17Z xyh quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T18:54:08Z BW^-_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T18:54:11Z BW^-_: guys, this page: http://feeley.github.io/gambit-in-the-browser/
2014-11-30T18:54:34Z BW^-_: ( A ) On your iPhone, iPad, Android, approx how fast does it load (when you cached it once from before already)?
2014-11-30T18:54:57Z BW^-_: ( B ) the same, if you have an average laptop or netbook, bought ~2 years ago
2014-11-30T18:55:11Z BW^-_: (as in, on that device, if you have one)
2014-11-30T18:55:22Z BW^-_: it's loaded when it says Gambit.
2014-11-30T19:01:34Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-30T19:01:54Z cojy: BW^-_: minus bandwidth it's the same except in Firefox nightly which can cache the compiled code
2014-11-30T19:06:38Z MichaelRaskin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T19:08:19Z BW^-_: cojy: aha
2014-11-30T19:08:21Z BW^-_: cojy: now
2014-11-30T19:08:40Z BW^-_: cojy: about how many seconds do you believe your web browsers' take to bootstrap this page, code-wise?
2014-11-30T19:08:54Z BW^-_: cojy: (on the *first* compile, which is on each page load in all browsers except firefox then)
2014-11-30T19:09:10Z cojy: most desktop browsers have great profiling you can check there
2014-11-30T19:09:46Z BW^-_: cojy: I know -
2014-11-30T19:09:57Z MichaelRaskin joined #scheme
2014-11-30T19:10:00Z BW^-_: cojy: the reason I asked here is because my device access right now is limited, and I have an unreazonably fast CPU
2014-11-30T19:10:19Z BW^-_: cojy: mine's turbo is at 3Ghz, and it's an i7
2014-11-30T19:10:29Z BW^-_: cojy: on mine, the bootstrapping looks transparent
2014-11-30T19:10:36Z BW^-_: cojy: also, I tried on a Core Pro Duo 1.6Ghz
2014-11-30T19:10:43Z BW^-_: cojy: that's a 2008 processor
2014-11-30T19:10:50Z BW^-_: cojy: on it, the bootstrapping was aproox 3 seconds
2014-11-30T19:11:12Z BW^-_: so I'm trying to get an idea if people would experience that bootstrapping as absolutely transparent, or as a lag,
2014-11-30T19:11:27Z BW^-_: on smartphones and 1yo netbooks/typical consumer laptops
2014-11-30T19:12:09Z BW^-_: cojy: so I only had access to "extreme" devices
2014-11-30T19:12:16Z BW^-_: cojy: what's the machine you tried on,  what did you experience there?
2014-11-30T19:12:40Z cojy: took about 45s on an iphone4 just now
2014-11-30T19:12:49Z BW^-_: cojy: 45 !?!?!?!?!?
2014-11-30T19:12:58Z BW^-_: cojy: so that would be like, download the code 3 seconds,
2014-11-30T19:13:05Z BW^-_: cojy: and bootstrap the JS 40 ????
2014-11-30T19:14:12Z BW^-_: cojy: ok, that's about as un-transparent as it can *ever* get
2014-11-30T19:14:14Z cojy: yea safari is the worst tuned for emscripten programs
2014-11-30T19:14:22Z cojy: and it's an old phone
2014-11-30T19:14:26Z cojy: not surprising
2014-11-30T19:14:28Z BW^-_: cojy: aha
2014-11-30T19:14:29Z BW^-_: cojy: how old?
2014-11-30T19:14:39Z BW^-_: cojy: which model?
2014-11-30T19:14:43Z cojy: idk it's an iPhone4 so a few years
2014-11-30T19:14:47Z BW^-_: mhm
2014-11-30T19:14:48Z BW^-_: ok
2014-11-30T19:17:56Z BW^-_: cojy: okay, so that may be a good point of reference then -
2014-11-30T19:18:28Z BW^-_: cojy: wow that's so unfortunate that Apple deploys a then technically outdated web browser on their popular phone
2014-11-30T19:20:18Z cojy: http://arewefastyet.com
2014-11-30T19:23:21Z guampa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-30T19:23:53Z cdidd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T19:24:09Z cojy: better link http://arewefastyet.com/#machine=29&view=breakdown&suite=asmjs-apps
2014-11-30T19:24:25Z guampa joined #scheme
2014-11-30T19:24:38Z BW^-_: cojy: mhm. but.. they report Chrome as being the slowest in some tests?
2014-11-30T19:24:46Z BW^-_: cojy: if so that must be some very specialized test?
2014-11-30T19:25:31Z cojy: I think the. ew safari improved a lot with the FTL jit I'm not sure, one thing is that ff will do ahead of time compilation and chrome won't
2014-11-30T19:25:34Z BW^-_: cojy: aha, so it's an asmjs test
2014-11-30T19:25:50Z cojy: so it often wins in asm.js
2014-11-30T19:26:11Z BW^-_: cojy: what do you mean by ahead of time compilation here,   all JS is compiled on page load in Chrome isn't it?
2014-11-30T19:26:39Z cojy: yea chrome sees it as normal is that it can optimize over time via jit
2014-11-30T19:26:47Z cojy: normal JS*
2014-11-30T19:27:06Z cojy: ff turns it into machine code on page load
2014-11-30T19:27:16Z rx_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-11-30T19:27:28Z cojy: and caches that machine code (in nightly)
2014-11-30T19:29:21Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-11-30T19:29:28Z BW^-_: cojy: ummm
2014-11-30T19:29:28Z BW^-_: cojy: e
2014-11-30T19:29:44Z BW^-_: cojy: but V8.. compiles to assembly no??
2014-11-30T19:30:10Z BW^-_: cojy: ie machine code
2014-11-30T19:30:16Z cojy: it does just not ahead of time
2014-11-30T19:30:19Z BW^-_: cojy: that's the whole point with V8
2014-11-30T19:30:26Z BW^-_: cojy: that's incredibly weird
2014-11-30T19:30:33Z BW^-_: cojy: what granularity are we talking here?
2014-11-30T19:30:39Z cojy: it does it as the program runs that's what just are about
2014-11-30T19:30:48Z BW^-_: cojy: i mean, maybe you could somehow make a load-force as to get around that with V8?
2014-11-30T19:31:09Z BW^-_: cojy: very well, okay, as a general behaviour i understand it - it does "lazy compilation" then
2014-11-30T19:31:14Z BW^-_: compilation lazily
2014-11-30T19:31:19Z cojy: no they intentionally don't and ff intentionally does
2014-11-30T19:31:59Z BW^-_: cojy: ok.
2014-11-30T19:32:00Z cojy: I think the new turbofan might be though I haven't looked into it
2014-11-30T19:32:10Z BW^-_: cojy: mhm
2014-11-30T19:32:32Z BW^-_: cojy: anyhow, so the Safari on the iPhone may be a story of its own
2014-11-30T19:32:42Z BW^-_: cojy: then, I guess the iPhone 5 was somehow the same
2014-11-30T19:32:54Z BW^-_: cojy: i'd be interested to know how an Android performs, and also an iPhone 6 and an iPad
2014-11-30T19:35:14Z hiroaki joined #scheme
2014-11-30T19:40:41Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-11-30T19:42:02Z nyarlshub joined #scheme
2014-11-30T19:45:43Z BW^-_: cojy: wait, in the asmjs test, Chrome also has the worst throughput
2014-11-30T19:45:49Z BW^-_: so it's not only about when code is compiled
2014-11-30T19:47:33Z cojy: well it is in a lot of ways
2014-11-30T19:48:12Z nyarlshub left #scheme
2014-11-30T19:49:00Z cojy: whole program optimization vs only pieces because of jit; code isn't always optimized as well as it could be in v8
2014-11-30T19:50:04Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T19:50:52Z cojy: ff knows he code can be statically compiled v8 has to figure it out
2014-11-30T19:51:05Z guampa quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-30T19:52:54Z c107` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T19:53:28Z c107` joined #scheme
2014-11-30T19:54:28Z guampa joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:00:41Z BitPuffin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T20:03:20Z BitPuffin joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:06:50Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:11:23Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T20:18:02Z BW^-_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2014-11-30T20:21:57Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-11-30T20:23:07Z amgarchIn9 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:26:33Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-30T20:29:41Z evhan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T20:34:48Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:37:06Z Vutral joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:38:16Z kazimir42 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T20:39:37Z jumblerg_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:42:13Z jumblerg quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T20:43:55Z jumblerg_ quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-30T20:54:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:54:22Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host)
2014-11-30T20:54:22Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme
2014-11-30T20:58:20Z amgarchIn9 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2014-11-30T21:01:06Z hypermagic quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T21:04:54Z evhan joined #scheme
2014-11-30T21:11:50Z jyc_ joined #scheme
2014-11-30T21:13:50Z hypermagic joined #scheme
2014-11-30T21:15:06Z jyc_ is now known as jyc
2014-11-30T21:26:21Z cdidd joined #scheme
2014-11-30T21:26:44Z scoofy: which scheme dialect you recommend for starting, other than plt / racket?
2014-11-30T21:27:01Z ozzloy joined #scheme
2014-11-30T21:27:31Z scoofy: anyone familiar with chicken scheme?
2014-11-30T21:27:45Z scoofy: hm, i figured they have an irc channel
2014-11-30T21:39:54Z livemusic joined #scheme
2014-11-30T21:41:38Z livemusic quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-30T21:55:30Z alezost quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-11-30T22:01:09Z jyc: scoofy, yep, #chicken on this very server :)
2014-11-30T22:01:28Z scoofy: how are literals quoted in scheme? 'literal ?
2014-11-30T22:01:42Z jyc: I believe that Racket has a mode designed for SICP, if you plan to use that
2014-11-30T22:01:49Z jyc: string literals or symbols?
2014-11-30T22:02:04Z jyc: oh, quoted, yep.
2014-11-30T22:03:01Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T22:04:33Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-11-30T22:04:46Z karswell joined #scheme
2014-11-30T22:07:02Z jumblerg quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-30T22:07:47Z alexey1 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T22:09:46Z ska-fan: What is a modern lispy implementation with a good standard library that I can use to write real world software? I'm looking for something similar to the CPython + Python + Django stack, just with Lisp instead of Python.
2014-11-30T22:12:30Z alexey1 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-11-30T22:14:23Z ijp: clojure probably
2014-11-30T22:18:53Z ska-fan: Ok, not clojure :) I have a Java allergy.
2014-11-30T22:20:03Z vraid: racket is good
2014-11-30T22:20:31Z vraid: with the disclaimer that i have no idea what the cpython + python + django stack implies
2014-11-30T22:21:28Z Pixel_Outlaw: ska-fan, what are you actually planning on making?
2014-11-30T22:21:37Z Pixel_Outlaw: Something as a web server I assume?
2014-11-30T22:22:39Z ska-fan: Pixel_Outlaw: I want to evaluate Lisp for building NLP technology. One interface would be an HTTP one.
2014-11-30T22:23:36Z ska-fan: vraid: Racket looks interesting! No outdated 404 links :)
2014-11-30T22:23:57Z Pixel_Outlaw: Racket is fairly modern and has a few web service examples.
2014-11-30T22:24:34Z Pixel_Outlaw: If you use CL as you are asking over in #lisp you'd need to use sbcl most likely as your implementation. With a library.
2014-11-30T22:28:44Z ska-fan: Pixel_Outlaw: I'm not far enough yet to know what it means to chose CL over Scheme / SBCL over Racket.
2014-11-30T22:29:22Z MichaelRaskin: Common Lisp is a large fat language
2014-11-30T22:29:35Z Pixel_Outlaw: Common Lisp is more like C++ where Scheme is more like C
2014-11-30T22:29:43Z Pixel_Outlaw: I guess...maybe
2014-11-30T22:29:50Z Pixel_Outlaw: That is probably an awful way to say it.
2014-11-30T22:29:59Z MichaelRaskin: With a few implementations and with real-world libraries like Hunchentoot HTTP server portable between them
2014-11-30T22:30:11Z Pixel_Outlaw: Common Lisp is a LOT of features, Scheme is smaller.
2014-11-30T22:30:17Z MichaelRaskin: Well, Common Lisp is more structured than C++
2014-11-30T22:30:31Z Pixel_Outlaw: Oh it is 10 times better for sure.
2014-11-30T22:30:36Z taylanub: bad analogies all around...
2014-11-30T22:30:51Z MichaelRaskin: But surely quite a doorstopper
2014-11-30T22:30:55Z taylanub: and apples to refridgerators...
2014-11-30T22:31:53Z ijp: a bad analogy is like a lemon flavoured velociraptor
2014-11-30T22:32:03Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-11-30T22:32:06Z MichaelRaskin: Also Common Lisp is so large and there are many enough cross-implementation libraries that the language standard can be considered frozen
2014-11-30T22:32:11Z Bahman quit (Quit: zzZ)
2014-11-30T22:32:17Z stct joined #scheme
2014-11-30T22:32:34Z MichaelRaskin: Scheme tries to keep up with times at least from some points of view
2014-11-30T22:32:44Z Pixel_Outlaw: Like a timeless jewel encased in the purest ice.
2014-11-30T22:33:28Z MichaelRaskin: I use Common Lisp because when I got a chance to leave Python, I was too afraid to chose a Scheme implementation and bet that it has everything I need
2014-11-30T22:33:45Z MichaelRaskin: (I knew Scheme only a bit better than CL at that moment)
2014-11-30T22:34:21Z Pixel_Outlaw: I've used Common Lisp, TinyScheme (in Gimp), AutoLISP (shudder). The important thing is to get a feel for s expressions. Then you can move from Lisp to Lisp a bit easier.
2014-11-30T22:35:11Z ska-fan: MichaelRaskin: times?
2014-11-30T22:35:23Z ska-fan: Ah, nevermind.
2014-11-30T22:36:10Z Pixel_Outlaw: Common Lisp's standard is somewhat frozen for various reasons. There are a LOT of people implementing Scheme with various whistles and bells since it is a smaller language.
2014-11-30T22:37:10Z MichaelRaskin: On the other hand, on Common Lisp side you are expected at least to accept patches for support of every compliant implementation.
2014-11-30T22:37:21Z Pixel_Outlaw: Common Lisp offers a standard, Scheme does too but the variants can do their own things in addition.
2014-11-30T22:37:37Z ijp: but mostly they are implementing scheme without various bells and whistles
2014-11-30T22:38:05Z Pixel_Outlaw: Except for Racket which is quite full featured.
2014-11-30T22:38:21Z MichaelRaskin: Common Lisp implementations also actually differ in many things, but the standard is large enough that you need only a limited amount of compatibility wrappers
2014-11-30T22:38:28Z MichaelRaskin: Mostly for FFI in various senses
2014-11-30T22:38:51Z Pixel_Outlaw: I do like the CLOS in CL.
2014-11-30T22:38:57Z Pixel_Outlaw: If you want to go Object Oriented
2014-11-30T22:39:36Z Pixel_Outlaw: Racket also offers an Object Oriented System should you choose to use it.
2014-11-30T22:39:55Z MichaelRaskin: Actually, it is flexible anough to be freely mixable with non-OO code without discrepancy and to be useful in code that is not written in OO paradigm
2014-11-30T22:40:24Z MichaelRaskin: In Lisp/Scheme/... land it is common to have multiple dispatch, by the way
2014-11-30T22:41:24Z Pixel_Outlaw: It is kind of funny how Lisp has existed before the popular OO languages, then blew right past them in flexibility.
2014-11-30T22:42:01Z Pixel_Outlaw: All that power from the humble CONS cell.
2014-11-30T22:42:28Z MichaelRaskin: Well, even Julia doesn't have transparent macros
2014-11-30T22:43:21Z MichaelRaskin: C++ is a mess and Java was designed to be inflexible
2014-11-30T22:43:55Z MichaelRaskin: If you have enough people and not enough communication, Java ensures that your project has a lot of big problems - instead of one complete disaster you would expect
2014-11-30T22:45:29Z Pixel_Outlaw: I don't like the object paranoia inherent in their class system.
2014-11-30T22:46:15Z Pixel_Outlaw: Ah C++ the only language where Friend classes have access to the Private areas of other classes.
2014-11-30T22:46:47Z ijp: only special friends should be allowed that
2014-11-30T22:46:50Z Pixel_Outlaw: I regress, too much scoping and odd rules in the classes.
2014-11-30T22:48:06Z Pixel_Outlaw: Barny Strudelstirrup  has gone mad with each new version of C++.
2014-11-30T22:48:34Z Pixel_Outlaw: It has become template mania.
2014-11-30T22:52:25Z hypermagic quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T22:54:06Z hypermagic joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:00:20Z drdanmaku joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:00:21Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:01:07Z scoofy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-11-30T23:05:35Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-11-30T23:12:38Z scoofy joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:15:12Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:17:10Z Nyaa joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:17:49Z Nyaa quit (Client Quit)
2014-11-30T23:18:41Z jumblerg joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:23:59Z t4nk659 joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:33:48Z Nyaa joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:38:55Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-11-30T23:46:00Z araujo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-30T23:47:47Z Pixel_Outlaw quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-11-30T23:47:53Z Nyaa quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!)
2014-11-30T23:48:04Z Pixel_Outlaw joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:50:48Z yrdz joined #scheme
2014-11-30T23:54:49Z c107` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T23:55:49Z t4nk659 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-11-30T23:56:51Z yrdz quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-11-30T23:56:58Z omefire quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2014-11-30T23:57:15Z yrdz joined #scheme