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2014-11-18T00:15:38Z xyh: hi friends, I only know two ways to implement "call/cc" :
2014-11-18T00:15:38Z xyh: 1. "allocate cons in stack" plus "a swaping-GC" [as chicken]
2014-11-18T00:15:38Z xyh: 2. "return-stack as list" plus "a marking-GC" [maybe as some old implementation]
2014-11-18T00:15:38Z xyh: any other ways ?
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2014-11-18T00:16:17Z xyh: * and also plus "CPS transformation" into 1.
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2014-11-18T00:30:30Z xyh: without a GC, the "90-mins"'s call/cc is just like goto !
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2014-11-18T00:39:24Z cojy: you can use whatever memory scheme you want as long as the things you need are heap allocated
2014-11-18T00:40:57Z cojy: if you do cps call/cc is really easy to since you always have a closure at the current point to pass into the program
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2014-11-18T05:32:56Z Riastradh: Does anyone still use foof-loop?
2014-11-18T05:37:29Z offby1 shifts uncomfortably 
2014-11-18T05:37:37Z offby1: "Does anyone remember laughter?"
2014-11-18T05:38:37Z tadni: offby1: Nope.
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2014-11-18T05:43:22Z Riastradh: `Laughter'?  Sounds painful.  What is it?
2014-11-18T05:44:46Z offby1: Scottish, I think
2014-11-18T05:44:50Z offby1: what with the "gh"
2014-11-18T05:45:08Z Riastradh: Ahhh, I think I've heard of that distillery.
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2014-11-18T09:08:23Z taylanub: what's the alternative to foof-loop again?
2014-11-18T09:08:44Z taylanub: I know Guile folks (and probably more) use `match' which is from foof too IIRC?
2014-11-18T09:09:03Z taylanub: yes indeed
2014-11-18T09:09:47Z taylanub: I should make an R7RS library of both of those...
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2014-11-18T14:33:09Z sethalves: taylanub -- I think foof has alreay done that.  look in his snow2 repo
2014-11-18T14:33:25Z taylanub: ah neat
2014-11-18T14:33:32Z sethalves: http://snow-fort.org/pkg
2014-11-18T14:33:34Z sethalves: nm maybe only match
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2014-11-18T14:42:57Z sethalves: taylanub -- not in his repo, but see in chibi-scheme source: ./lib/chibi/match.sld
2014-11-18T14:43:22Z sethalves: and ./lib/chibi/loop.sld
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2014-11-18T14:55:36Z taylanub: aha, thanks
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2014-11-18T15:11:59Z ecraven: Riastradh: is there any structure matching macro (for matching and extracting parts of nested lists of symbols and "data") in MIT/GNU Scheme?
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2014-11-18T15:36:35Z Riastradh: ecraven: Nope.  I usually use <http://synthcode.com/scheme/match.scm> (with the vector patterns commented out because they're broken in MIT Scheme), except synthcode.com was down last I looked.
2014-11-18T15:39:52Z Riastradh: taylanub: I don't know any alternatives to foof-loop!  Obviously it's the best one.  I guess you could use foof's loop, which is a different thing.  Maybe one of these days I should change foof-loop's name so it's less confusing.
2014-11-18T15:40:25Z gnomon votes for "floop"
2014-11-18T15:42:40Z ecraven: 404 :(
2014-11-18T15:43:24Z ecraven: Riastradh: some version of this? https://github.com/arcfide/foof/blob/master/match.scm#L7
2014-11-18T15:44:36Z ecraven: Riastradh: also, thanks :)
2014-11-18T15:45:51Z Riastradh: ecraven: Probably!
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2014-11-18T15:46:25Z Riastradh: It's also included in Chibi, I imagine.
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2014-11-18T16:31:06Z xyh: about copy-and-compress GC, every time you copy a "cons" from heap-1 to heap-2,  you have to update all the reference to this "cons",  how can this be done ???
2014-11-18T16:31:13Z xyh: [ when we have a lot of things like :: '(#0=(1 #0#))  ??? ]
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2014-11-18T16:42:23Z taylanub: xyh: pointers already have to be found during the scanning; so they can also simply be overwritten to point to the new locations of the objects.
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2014-11-18T16:52:43Z xyh: taylanub: (define x '(#0=(1 #0#))) if the GC does not record every thing it copys [from heap-1 to heap-2], it will running to a loop. [just like in some implementations the function "display" can not displays '(#0=(1 #0#))]
2014-11-18T16:53:23Z cojy: you don't have a very good gc if it cant deal with that :p
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2014-11-18T16:54:14Z cojy: xyh: your function to traverse the cells of the cons should both memoize and return the pointer to the new object
2014-11-18T16:54:45Z jenia: hello. I defined a function (define my-plus (lambda (x y) (+ x y))). When I call is (my-plus 3 4), I get `[...] unbound variable: plus [...]`.  What am I doing wrong? I dont get it.
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2014-11-18T16:55:15Z jenia: i mean, unbond variable my-plus*
2014-11-18T16:55:40Z jenia: ahh no. forget it ;)
2014-11-18T17:00:43Z xyh: cojy: isn't that makes a copy-and-compress GC very expensive. [I mean the memoizing stuffs ...]
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2014-11-18T17:02:09Z xyh: I know a marking-GC can solve this easily, but some said "copy-and-compress GC is faster than stack!".
2014-11-18T17:02:33Z cojy: i dont think its that expensive to just store the moved pointer
2014-11-18T17:03:00Z cojy: it is a bit more expensive to collect but it being compacted does make your memory use faster
2014-11-18T17:03:12Z cojy: allocation and access both
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2014-11-18T17:04:01Z cojy: i also find the implementation much more simple and elegant so i prefer it for that reason as well
2014-11-18T17:06:06Z xyh: cojy: you do not know which "cons" will be a "#0#", so every "cons" been copyed should be stored. and on every new "cons" to be copyed, you need to lookup all stored "cons" to see if it is a "#0#".
2014-11-18T17:06:38Z xyh: am I wrong ?
2014-11-18T17:07:08Z cojy: the first time you copy #0#, you mark the old copy as "moved" and store the new pointer there
2014-11-18T17:07:21Z cojy: the second time you encounter #0# you see that it's moved and where the pointer is
2014-11-18T17:07:44Z cojy: so you can just set that pointer with no copying required
2014-11-18T17:10:49Z xyh: oh! I see. updating is done by storing new "#0="'s address into old "#0="'s car, [mark them also], and when "#0#" is meeted, it fetch new "#0=" from the old "#0="'s car
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2014-11-18T17:11:15Z cojy: so if you think of every value on the heap as a pair of a "moved" tag and a "value" you can have the number one as (cons #f 1) then when you move it to the new heap, you mutate the one still on the old heap to (cons #t new-pointer)
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2014-11-18T17:13:27Z cojy: any time you encounter an object that's mutated = #f, you copy it and do what i just said, thenr eturn the new pointer also; when you encounter an object that's mutated = #t, then you just return that new-pointer that you stored in place of it's old-heap value
2014-11-18T17:14:03Z xyh: I see. thx cojy
2014-11-18T17:14:07Z cojy: any time
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2014-11-18T17:17:42Z DGASAU: xyh: threaded code is restricted CPS.
2014-11-18T17:18:21Z LeoNerd: iCPS
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2014-11-18T17:36:42Z xyh: LeoNerd: iCPS ?
2014-11-18T17:36:58Z LeoNerd: implicit CPS
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2014-11-18T17:38:30Z xyh: it stores cc in a global pointer, instead of passing it, as an arg, through every lambda
2014-11-18T17:39:26Z LeoNerd: R31
2014-11-18T17:40:12Z xyh: LeoNerd: R31 ?
2014-11-18T17:40:46Z LeoNerd: Heh.. a joke for the ARM programmers
2014-11-18T17:40:54Z LeoNerd: After a CALL instruction, the previous IP is stored in R31
2014-11-18T17:41:16Z LeoNerd: I think. Hrm, or maybe R31 -is- the IP and it gets copied into R30
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2014-11-18T18:53:04Z teurastaja: Am an embedded systems student searching for novel ai algorithms in scheme to engineer. Pointers appreciated
2014-11-18T18:53:45Z teurastaja: Student in robotics
2014-11-18T18:54:43Z teurastaja: They dont teach us s-exprs :(
2014-11-18T18:56:36Z teurastaja: Perhaps some genetic-like algorithm implemented in scheme?
2014-11-18T19:00:23Z teurastaja: Seeking insight for teaching hardware to learn. No specific application yet
2014-11-18T19:02:17Z teurastaja: I use scheme as pseudo-code before i write in assembly
2014-11-18T19:03:40Z cojy: im no expert but here's some things that might be interesting to you http://projects.csail.mit.edu/church/wiki/Church http://probabilistic-programming.org/wiki/Home https://probmods.org/
2014-11-18T19:09:49Z teurastaja: Thanks, but im looking for implementations of genetic algorithms in scheme
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2014-11-18T19:13:47Z teurastaja: Sorry got disconnected did i get further replies?
2014-11-18T19:15:06Z teurastaja: Recap: seeking genetic algorithm implementations in scheme
2014-11-18T19:15:43Z teurastaja: May include evolutionary algorithms and the like
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2014-11-18T19:26:41Z teurastaja: (memq 'scheme-community ai-programming)
2014-11-18T19:27:55Z teurastaja: => #f      ??
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2014-11-18T19:33:53Z sheilong: teurastaja:  on mitpress you will found lot of novels
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2014-11-18T19:45:30Z theseb: now that lisp machines are history....is the entire notion of making cpus optimized for functional langs dead ?...I don't see why cpus must naturally be only optimized for C which they essentially are now
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2014-11-18T19:52:43Z taylanub: FP has been getting a reboot so who knows
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