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2014-10-05T00:06:58Z taylanub: lrs: no, it will do it if (pair? list) is true
2014-10-05T00:07:28Z taylanub: just read it like english
2014-10-05T00:07:37Z lrs: (if (pair? list) (listt? (cdr list)) #f)))
2014-10-05T00:07:58Z lrs: if pair? list then list? (cdr list) otherwise #f
2014-10-05T00:08:47Z taylanub: "if list is a pair, then the question is whether the cdr of 'list' is a list; otherwise the answer is 'false'"
2014-10-05T00:09:13Z taylanub: when I say "then the question is..." that's basically calling another function in tail-position for it to determine the return value for us
2014-10-05T00:09:31Z lrs: tail-position?
2014-10-05T00:09:47Z taylanub: "the last thing done in a function"
2014-10-05T00:10:00Z lrs: and why is there no car
2014-10-05T00:10:12Z taylanub: does it matter?
2014-10-05T00:10:23Z lrs: Ok sooooo
2014-10-05T00:10:33Z lrs: If I have
2014-10-05T00:10:35Z taylanub: is there ever a case where a chain of pairs are not considered a list because one of them has something wrong in a car position?
2014-10-05T00:10:58Z lrs: ( cons 1 (cons 2(cons 3()')))
2014-10-05T00:11:13Z taylanub: that's bad syntax.  and use proper spaces please
2014-10-05T00:11:24Z taylanub: I think you meant (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '())))
2014-10-05T00:11:50Z taylanub: notice how for each 'cons' call, the first argument could be *anything* and it would still be a list
2014-10-05T00:11:51Z lrs: yes
2014-10-05T00:12:05Z lrs: Now if we look at
2014-10-05T00:12:08Z taylanub: those are the elements of the list, after all
2014-10-05T00:12:22Z lrs: (if (pair? list) (listt? (cdr list)) #f)))
2014-10-05T00:12:28Z lrs: It says if
2014-10-05T00:13:24Z lrs: (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) is a pair which (cons 1 <- first element in pair  (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) second elemnt is pair
2014-10-05T00:14:15Z lrs: So that is true
2014-10-05T00:14:28Z lrs: So it does
2014-10-05T00:14:28Z lrs: (listt? (cdr list)
2014-10-05T00:14:30Z lrs: Right?
2014-10-05T00:14:59Z taylanub: yeah
2014-10-05T00:15:09Z lrs: So what does (listt? (cdr list) mean exatly
2014-10-05T00:15:20Z lrs: What operation does listt? do on the cdr lisst
2014-10-05T00:15:21Z taylanub: what's the cdr of the list?  you just wrote it...
2014-10-05T00:15:32Z taylanub: er, listt? is the function you're defining there
2014-10-05T00:15:37Z lrs: Because you define listt? in the sam eparenthesis that you are using to call it..
2014-10-05T00:15:54Z taylanub: I assume it was named 'listt?' to differentiate it from the built-in 'list?'
2014-10-05T00:16:04Z taylanub: lrs: yes, you can do that
2014-10-05T00:16:15Z lrs: Yes
2014-10-05T00:16:17Z taylanub: just do it step by step in your mind
2014-10-05T00:16:23Z taylanub: what's the cdr of list?
2014-10-05T00:16:29Z lrs: 1
2014-10-05T00:16:33Z taylanub: no
2014-10-05T00:16:43Z lrs: Woops
2014-10-05T00:16:45Z lrs: 2 3
2014-10-05T00:17:20Z taylanub: it's what you wrote as (cons 2 (cons 3 '())).  (actually that's *code* resulting in the rest of the list, but yeah...)
2014-10-05T00:17:30Z taylanub: now apply 'list?' to that once more...
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2014-10-05T00:21:25Z lrs: taylanub, And what happens then?
2014-10-05T00:21:26Z lrs: :|
2014-10-05T00:21:40Z lrs: Is list?? defined as cdr list?
2014-10-05T00:21:42Z lrs: :S
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2014-10-05T00:25:46Z taylanub: lrs: you were just applying it to (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) step by step, no?  then you arrived at (list? (cdr list)), and we said (cdr list) is (cons 2 (cons 3 '())).  so why don't you now apply it step by step to (cons 2 (cons 3 '())) ?
2014-10-05T00:25:56Z taylanub: just continue applying it
2014-10-05T00:26:05Z lrs: Until (null)
2014-10-05T00:26:33Z taylanub: and then?
2014-10-05T00:26:47Z taylanub: what has 'list?' to say on null?
2014-10-05T00:26:57Z lrs: #t
2014-10-05T00:27:01Z lrs: :S
2014-10-05T00:27:03Z taylanub: so the result is?
2014-10-05T00:27:06Z lrs: #t
2014-10-05T00:27:19Z lrs: So the definition of a list
2014-10-05T00:27:27Z lrs: Is that it can do that, loop-thingy
2014-10-05T00:27:34Z taylanub: YES
2014-10-05T00:27:36Z lrs:  (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 '()))) -> to '()
2014-10-05T00:27:44Z taylanub: EXACTLY
2014-10-05T00:27:51Z lrs: Cool
2014-10-05T00:28:01Z lrs: That took me like, 2 weeks to realize.
2014-10-05T00:28:02Z lrs: Heh.
2014-10-05T00:28:08Z lrs: But now I got it
2014-10-05T00:28:10Z taylanub: you need to fling around emoticons less and just think more, then you'd be quicker
2014-10-05T00:28:16Z lrs: I thought it you called the function there
2014-10-05T00:28:32Z lrs: I usually dont write emoticons
2014-10-05T00:28:41Z taylanub: it was meant figuratively
2014-10-05T00:28:42Z lrs: Only when I want to appear stupid
2014-10-05T00:28:46Z lrs: Oh
2014-10-05T00:28:50Z lrs: ;_;
2014-10-05T00:28:55Z taylanub: but that works too yeah
2014-10-05T00:29:14Z taylanub: BTW you're in university?  what field?
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2014-10-05T00:29:19Z lrs: Mathematics
2014-10-05T00:29:33Z lrs: My second year
2014-10-05T00:29:57Z lrs: But, havnet completed all the stuff I have to do. But right now im doing Scheme/Python course
2014-10-05T00:29:59Z taylanub: and it has an optional CS course?
2014-10-05T00:30:06Z taylanub: ok
2014-10-05T00:30:11Z lrs: Nope, its required
2014-10-05T00:30:15Z taylanub: oh
2014-10-05T00:30:22Z taylanub: funny.  not bad though
2014-10-05T00:30:48Z lrs: What do you mean? Mathematics as a major?
2014-10-05T00:31:01Z taylanub: that they force maths people to do Scheme
2014-10-05T00:31:24Z lrs: I guess its a way for us to think like a datalogician
2014-10-05T00:31:29Z lrs: Or what the correct term is
2014-10-05T00:31:49Z taylanub: computer scientist?
2014-10-05T00:31:57Z lrs: Right
2014-10-05T00:33:55Z lrs: Right now im gonna start to work with sets
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2014-10-05T00:35:31Z taylanub: now I'm long-term AFK, bye
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2014-10-05T00:43:19Z lrs: taylanub, Thanks for the help!
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2014-10-05T07:27:03Z zacts: hi
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2014-10-05T09:39:08Z sigjuice: I am having trouble understanding "3.3.5 Propagation of Constraints" from SICP.  Why does process-forget-value call process-new-value in (define (adder a1 a2 sum) ... ) ?
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2014-10-05T10:17:28Z CaptainRant: Can't a syntax rules template contain multiple templates ?
2014-10-05T10:17:56Z CaptainRant: I can specify a list of templates, but they expand parenthesized
2014-10-05T10:18:00Z ilammy: use (begin ...) if you want to place several forms into a template
2014-10-05T10:18:41Z CaptainRant: Great :D But not begin-syntax ?
2014-10-05T10:19:09Z ilammy: no, the plain old begin
2014-10-05T10:28:06Z CaptainRant: Literals are ignored inside syntax-rules ? Even if they equal existing identifier/rules/makros/keywords ?
2014-10-05T10:30:03Z ilammy: huh? what do you mean by 'ignored'?
2014-10-05T10:30:49Z CaptainRant: If i specify "if" as a literal, does it mean, that "if" is not visible inside the rule ?
2014-10-05T10:32:08Z ilammy: no, it still be that "if" which was defined at the place where the macro is defined
2014-10-05T10:32:39Z ilammy: literals mostly affect patterns
2014-10-05T10:33:12Z ilammy: if you specify "if" as a literal, you can match with a pattern _and_ it will not be a pattern variable
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2014-10-05T10:33:39Z ilammy: you cannot use "if" in templates (as a literal) if it is a pattern variable
2014-10-05T10:34:11Z ilammy: because in this case "if" in templates will mean the thing bound to that pattern variable, not the "if" outside of the macro definition
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2014-10-05T12:38:59Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/qspMhFdk < I have a function that takes the minimum of list
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2014-10-05T12:40:32Z lrs: And I want to create a function that takes the next biggest
2014-10-05T12:40:35Z lrs: number of a list
2014-10-05T12:42:55Z lrs: I switch the > term
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2014-10-05T13:37:33Z taylanub: CaptainRant: (syntax-rules (if then else) ((_ (if x then y else z)) (if x y z))) will create a macro which when you pass it one argument like (if foo then bar else baz) it will expand to (if x y z) *UNLESS* you've lexically rebound 'if', 'then', or 'else'
2014-10-05T13:37:43Z taylanub: useless example but you get the idea
2014-10-05T13:38:28Z taylanub: CaptainRant: also, 'being unbound' also counts as a special binding state, so if during the macro creation 'then' and 'else' were unbound, then they need to be unbound when you call the macro; otherwise they're lexically rebound of course
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2014-10-05T14:05:11Z taylanub: did my message about 'being unbound' arrive?
2014-10-05T14:06:27Z c74d: taylanub: I received it.
2014-10-05T14:06:36Z taylanub: thanks
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2014-10-05T15:14:47Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/2qd2gVyY
2014-10-05T15:14:50Z lrs: Anyone have any idea?
2014-10-05T15:15:06Z lrs: I need to take the next highest number in the list
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2014-10-05T15:16:57Z vanila: lrs, does that code work?
2014-10-05T15:17:12Z lrs: Nope
2014-10-05T15:17:17Z lrs: Im just guessing
2014-10-05T15:17:18Z lrs: :/
2014-10-05T15:17:23Z lrs: It gives procedure
2014-10-05T15:19:29Z vanila: ok
2014-10-05T15:19:43Z vanila: why don't you SORT the list, then take the  second element
2014-10-05T15:19:59Z vanila: (define (next-highest l) (cadr (sort l)))
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2014-10-05T15:37:22Z lrs: vanila, sort huh
2014-10-05T15:48:40Z lrs: vanila,
2014-10-05T15:49:11Z lrs: vanila, http://pastebin.com/yYpTkaZQ
2014-10-05T15:49:12Z lrs: :S
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2014-10-05T15:50:35Z vanila: lrs, http://lpaste.net/112134
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2014-10-05T15:51:24Z lrs: I did that first befroe. Hm.
2014-10-05T15:51:58Z lrs: vanila, It says "undefined" when i enter
2014-10-05T15:52:03Z lrs: > (next-highest (list 1 2 3 4 5 6 ))
2014-10-05T15:52:04Z lrs: :|
2014-10-05T15:55:04Z vanila: what is undefined
2014-10-05T15:55:14Z lrs: ext-highest: undefined;
2014-10-05T15:55:14Z lrs:  cannot reference undefined identifier
2014-10-05T15:55:19Z lrs: *n
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2014-10-05T16:00:28Z taylanub: lrs: you have to indent your code properly
2014-10-05T16:01:58Z taylanub: (define (next-highest lst)
2014-10-05T16:01:58Z taylanub:   (cond ((null? (cdr lst)) (car lst))
2014-10-05T16:01:58Z taylanub:         (cadr (sort l))))
2014-10-05T16:01:58Z taylanub: Here.  Now does this look correct?  Or does something in the structure sting to the eye?
2014-10-05T16:03:11Z lrs: lst instead of l
2014-10-05T16:03:26Z taylanub: No.  As made clear from the indentation, "(cadr (sort l))" is in a position of a "cond clause".  What's the grammar of a cond clause?
2014-10-05T16:03:38Z lrs: ??
2014-10-05T16:03:42Z lrs: Its supposed to be lst instead of l
2014-10-05T16:03:51Z lrs: (cadr (sort lst)
2014-10-05T16:03:54Z taylanub: The grammar of a cond clause is (<test> <expression> ...).
2014-10-05T16:04:07Z taylanub: Where is the test in "(cdr (sort l))"?
2014-10-05T16:04:34Z lrs: The test?
2014-10-05T16:04:40Z lrs: else
2014-10-05T16:04:56Z taylanub: obviously "cdr" is not a test.  (it *incidentally* works as a test, counting as 'true', because everything but #f counts as true)
2014-10-05T16:05:50Z taylanub: (er, "cadr" not "cdr" .. anyway)
2014-10-05T16:06:02Z taylanub: lrs: I see no "else" there
2014-10-05T16:06:36Z taylanub: I just see "(cadr (sort l))", and if you match that up with the grammar (<test> <expression> ...) it means "cadr" is in position of the <test>
2014-10-05T16:07:48Z lrs: What is a test
2014-10-05T16:08:34Z taylanub: A <test> in a cond clause may be any expression, or the symbol 'else' if the clause is the last cond clause.
2014-10-05T16:09:02Z taylanub: The symbol 'else' is equivalent to the constant expression '#t'.
2014-10-05T16:11:43Z lrs: I dont get it
2014-10-05T16:11:53Z lrs: What do suggest it says instead
2014-10-05T16:16:50Z taylanub: (else (cadr (sort l)))
2014-10-05T16:17:30Z lrs: Thats what I said :|
2014-10-05T16:17:35Z taylanub: (define (next-highest lst)
2014-10-05T16:17:35Z taylanub:   (cond ((null? (cdr lst)) (car lst))
2014-10-05T16:17:35Z taylanub:         (else (cadr (sort l)))))
2014-10-05T16:17:48Z lrs: Huh
2014-10-05T16:17:53Z lrs: Why do you switch l and switch
2014-10-05T16:17:55Z lrs: I mean
2014-10-05T16:17:59Z lrs: switch l and lst
2014-10-05T16:18:10Z taylanub: I didn't correct the other mistake, I was concentrating on the lack of an 'else'
2014-10-05T16:18:30Z lrs: Ok, just wanted to be sure
2014-10-05T16:18:30Z lrs: (define (next-highest l)
2014-10-05T16:18:31Z lrs: (cond ((null? (cdr l)) (car l))
2014-10-05T16:18:31Z lrs:       (else(cadr (sort l)))))
2014-10-05T16:18:50Z taylanub: maybe I'm making this too difficult -- I could have just said "you forgot the else there", but it would be great if you got accustomed to reading precise grammar
2014-10-05T16:19:30Z lrs: Right
2014-10-05T16:19:31Z lrs: BUt
2014-10-05T16:19:34Z lrs: That code doesnt work
2014-10-05T16:19:37Z lrs: :|
2014-10-05T16:19:57Z taylanub: (well, to be fair, one wouldn't expect that from a beginner in programming, but given that you're approaching it as a mathematician I'd say it's fine to expect that level of rigor?)
2014-10-05T16:20:46Z taylanub: on to the next issue ...
2014-10-05T16:21:48Z taylanub: lrs: what happens when you use that function?  like when you call (next-highest (list 4 2 8 3))?
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2014-10-05T16:25:15Z lrs: sort: arity mismatch;
2014-10-05T16:25:15Z lrs:  the expected number of arguments does not match the given number
2014-10-05T16:25:15Z lrs:   expected: 2 plus optional arguments with keywords #:cache-keys? and #:key
2014-10-05T16:25:15Z lrs:   given: 1
2014-10-05T16:25:15Z lrs:   arguments...:
2014-10-05T16:25:16Z lrs:    (4 2 8 3)
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2014-10-05T16:41:03Z lrs: taylanub, Any idea
2014-10-05T16:41:04Z lrs: :S
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2014-10-05T16:42:46Z taylanub: lrs: isn't the error pretty clear?  you didn't give 'sort' the number of arguments it expected
2014-10-05T16:43:14Z taylanub: lrs: read the documentation of 'sort' to see what arguments it expects
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2014-10-05T16:58:20Z lrs: taylanub,
2014-10-05T16:58:37Z lrs: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/pairs.html?q=scheme#%28def._%28%28lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Flist..rkt%29._sort%29%29
2014-10-05T16:58:38Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/qxegkrj
2014-10-05T16:59:06Z lrs: Doesnt work
2014-10-05T16:59:09Z lrs: Im assuming its
2014-10-05T16:59:14Z lrs: (next-highest 3 (list 4 2 8 3))
2014-10-05T16:59:15Z lrs: or
2014-10-05T16:59:20Z lrs: (next-highest (list 4 2 8 3) 3)
2014-10-05T16:59:41Z taylanub: lrs: did you read what I wrote?
2014-10-05T17:00:06Z lrs: ?
2014-10-05T17:00:13Z lrs: I dont get it, how many arguments?
2014-10-05T17:00:26Z lrs: Where?
2014-10-05T17:00:30Z taylanub: well, is the documentation not clear enough?
2014-10-05T17:00:39Z lrs: Boolean?
2014-10-05T17:00:42Z taylanub: lrs: so how many arguments does sort take?
2014-10-05T17:00:53Z lrs: 1
2014-10-05T17:00:59Z lrs: 2
2014-10-05T17:01:05Z lrs: list
2014-10-05T17:01:06Z lrs: and less-than?
2014-10-05T17:01:14Z taylanub: (to be honest, I find that format they use there for types pretty horrible...)
2014-10-05T17:01:17Z taylanub: lrs: yeah
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2014-10-05T17:01:26Z taylanub: lrs: how many did you give to sort?
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2014-10-05T17:04:42Z lrs: Hmm
2014-10-05T17:04:46Z lrs: Heh.
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2014-10-05T17:05:21Z lrs: Where do i set the arugment or that?
2014-10-05T17:05:33Z lrs: If i write (sort 2 l)
2014-10-05T17:05:35Z lrs: It doesnt wor
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2014-10-05T17:06:59Z taylanub: whenever you say "it doesn't work", read the actual error message instead
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2014-10-05T17:18:40Z zacts: hi
2014-10-05T17:19:20Z offby1: egg zacts ly
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2014-10-05T17:20:39Z zacts: hi offby1
2014-10-05T17:20:49Z zacts: I hope to write a few chicken eggs eventually
2014-10-05T17:21:03Z zacts: chicken is my favorite scheme right now
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2014-10-05T17:23:41Z offby1: I've barely used it.
2014-10-05T17:32:07Z zacts: offby1: it's fun
2014-10-05T17:32:14Z zacts: and it compiles to C
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2014-10-05T17:35:43Z lrs: taylanub, I did
2014-10-05T17:36:01Z lrs:  sort: contract violation
2014-10-05T17:36:01Z lrs:   expected: list?
2014-10-05T17:36:01Z lrs:   given: 2
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2014-10-05T17:41:00Z offby1: rudybot: (sort 2 <)
2014-10-05T17:41:00Z rudybot: *offby1: error: sort: contract violation <NEWLINE>   expected: list? <NEWLINE>   given: 2
2014-10-05T17:41:06Z offby1: rudybot: (sort (list 2) <)
2014-10-05T17:41:06Z rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: '(2)
2014-10-05T17:41:12Z offby1: rudybot: (sort (list 3 2 1 100) <)
2014-10-05T17:41:12Z rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: '(1 2 3 100)
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2014-10-05T18:06:13Z lrs: taylanub, Any ideas?
2014-10-05T18:06:15Z lrs: ;_;
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2014-10-05T18:07:51Z taylanub: lrs: offby1 just demonstrated how to use it correctly...
2014-10-05T18:08:12Z lrs: Oh shit
2014-10-05T18:08:20Z lrs: I thought it was a bot going haywire
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2014-10-05T18:19:33Z lrs: offby1, thanks ^
2014-10-05T18:19:35Z lrs: ^^
2014-10-05T18:19:45Z lrs: I just changed the < to >
2014-10-05T18:20:09Z lrs: Any ideas how I could do it without uing sort?
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2014-10-05T19:17:00Z _tca: lrs: why would you do it without sort?
2014-10-05T19:17:07Z lrs: To learn
2014-10-05T19:17:30Z _tca: you could implement sort
2014-10-05T19:17:39Z _tca: or take the max, remove it, and do it again
2014-10-05T19:21:09Z lrs: Thats what I want to do
2014-10-05T19:22:21Z _tca: could also make a 3 parameter variant max that returns the 2 highest of the 3 and use that to reduce them
2014-10-05T19:22:32Z _tca: you could do all 3 ways
2014-10-05T19:26:55Z lrs: Can you show me those?
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2014-10-05T22:20:14Z _tca: lrs: you should check out the little schemer and seasoned schemer, it's filled with exercises like those
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