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sleeping) 2014-10-01T05:55:08Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-10-01T06:02:09Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T06:06:48Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-01T06:14:19Z githogori joined #scheme 2014-10-01T06:14:20Z githogori quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-01T06:15:43Z githogori joined #scheme 2014-10-01T06:17:50Z lrs joined #scheme 2014-10-01T06:18:35Z lrs: Can anyone help me write a function that does the same thing as filter 2014-10-01T06:18:35Z lrs: ? 2014-10-01T06:20:12Z fridim__ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T06:20:40Z githogori quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-01T06:21:07Z lrs: I have no idea where to start 2014-10-01T06:21:17Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T06:23:01Z rtra joined #scheme 2014-10-01T06:37:10Z c107 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-01T06:40:07Z mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 2014-10-01T06:45:12Z zematis_ is now known as zematis 2014-10-01T06:47:56Z zematis quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-10-01T07:02:56Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T07:07:57Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T07:09:33Z masm joined #scheme 2014-10-01T07:12:46Z ventonegro joined #scheme 2014-10-01T07:15:25Z civodul joined #scheme 2014-10-01T07:22:47Z Sgeo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-01T07:23:08Z Sgeo joined #scheme 2014-10-01T07:28:07Z pjdelport: lrs: Have you written any other recursive functions on lists before? 2014-10-01T07:33:06Z lrs: pjdelport, Thats what I have problem with. 2014-10-01T07:33:18Z lrs: Im struggling to understand what I am going to do. 2014-10-01T07:36:16Z pjdelport: Well, maybe it would help to tackle a conceptually simpler function, first. 2014-10-01T07:36:30Z pjdelport: I would suggest reverse or map: do you think you could implement those? 2014-10-01T07:38:48Z lrs: Lets try reverse 2014-10-01T07:39:02Z pjdelport: Cool, that's a nice one to get started. 2014-10-01T07:39:31Z pjdelport: You're familiar with cons, car, cdr, and all that? 2014-10-01T07:41:08Z lrs: Yes 2014-10-01T07:41:12Z pjdelport: Cool. 2014-10-01T07:41:36Z pjdelport: So to get started with reverse, first think about how you'll perform a single step of the reversal. 2014-10-01T07:42:20Z pjdelport: Imagine you're in the middle of reversing a list: you have an output list that is already partially reversed, and an input list that still has to be reversed. 2014-10-01T07:43:05Z pjdelport: If you'd like a physical analogy, imagine you have a stack of plates that you want to reverse. :) 2014-10-01T07:43:17Z pjdelport: And think about how you'd do that one plate at a time. 2014-10-01T07:43:25Z pjdelport: That's essentially what your reverse function will do. 2014-10-01T07:44:53Z pjdelport: Does that makes sense? 2014-10-01T07:45:59Z lrs: Hmmm 2014-10-01T07:46:09Z lrs: You mean I will count down to null 2014-10-01T07:46:18Z lrs: When the list is null 2014-10-01T07:46:20Z lrs: I will reverse it 2014-10-01T07:48:31Z Serpentoj left #scheme 2014-10-01T07:52:31Z lrs: pjdelport, I just need to take the first elemt 2014-10-01T07:52:34Z lrs: And put it at the end 2014-10-01T07:52:36Z lrs: So uh 2014-10-01T07:52:37Z lrs: car 2014-10-01T07:52:42Z lrs: and then add it to the cdr 2014-10-01T07:53:40Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2014-10-01T07:59:48Z frkout_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T08:02:40Z pjdelport: lrs: Well, think of the plates analogy: you'll have two stacks of plates, an input stack and an output stack. 2014-10-01T08:03:04Z pjdelport: And to reverse the input stack, you take the top plate from the input stack, and put it on the output stack, and repeat. 2014-10-01T08:03:08Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T08:03:36Z pjdelport: Once you put the entire input stack of plates onto the output stack like that, you have the stack reversed, right? 2014-10-01T08:03:47Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T08:03:58Z pjdelport: That's basically what you want to do: treat the lists like stacks. 2014-10-01T08:04:41Z pjdelport: The front of a list is like the top of a stack: you use cons to "put" another element onto it, and car and cdr to take elements off. 2014-10-01T08:06:24Z lrs: Right 2014-10-01T08:08:10Z lrs: So i use car on the top stack 2014-10-01T08:08:46Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T08:17:05Z lrs: pjdelport, I just dont get how I would write this shit 2014-10-01T08:17:10Z lrs: Like, syntax wise 2014-10-01T08:20:58Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-10-01T08:23:22Z pjdelport: lrs: Which bit are you having problems with? 2014-10-01T08:25:12Z pjdelport: Try starting simple: given two lists named "input" and "output", how would you add the top element of "input" and prepend it to "output"? 2014-10-01T08:25:27Z pjdelport: (just as a normal Scheme expression) 2014-10-01T08:32:36Z lrs: pjdelport, Uh. 2014-10-01T08:32:48Z lrs: pjdelport, car inpit 2014-10-01T08:32:53Z lrs: car input 2014-10-01T08:32:58Z lrs: and then put it in output 2014-10-01T08:33:07Z lrs: I have no idea. I dont get this syntax stuff. 2014-10-01T08:33:38Z pjdelport: lrs: Are you working through a tutorial? 2014-10-01T08:33:44Z lrs: No 2014-10-01T08:39:34Z pjdelport: lrs: I think you should definitely try to find a tutorial that works for you, first, and get a bit more comfortable with the basic syntax. 2014-10-01T08:39:45Z pjdelport: Maybe try this book? 2014-10-01T08:39:47Z pjdelport: http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/ 2014-10-01T08:40:04Z lrs: lol, forget that 2014-10-01T08:40:13Z lrs: Heres what I get 2014-10-01T08:40:13Z pjdelport: At least review the first part of it, to see where you get stuck with the syntax. 2014-10-01T08:40:33Z pjdelport: There's a second edition in progress, too: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/index.html 2014-10-01T08:40:58Z lrs: Sorry, I have ADHD. To suggest that I should read a whole book to solve this problem - will never happen. 2014-10-01T08:41:12Z lrs: I just need some explanation 2014-10-01T08:41:16Z pjdelport: lrs: I never said you have to read the whole book :) 2014-10-01T08:41:21Z lrs: I just cant see the connection 2014-10-01T08:41:24Z pjdelport: Just the pages that deal with syntax. 2014-10-01T08:41:26Z lrs: When I see the connection it clicks 2014-10-01T08:41:33Z pjdelport: Right... but i don't even know where to start explaining. 2014-10-01T08:41:38Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-10-01T08:41:52Z pjdelport: And if you can't explain where exactly you get stuck, i have no idea how to help. 2014-10-01T08:41:59Z lrs: Thats what I am thinking right now, how to explain to you what I dont get 2014-10-01T08:42:16Z lrs: And its hard when I dont really get the syntax of the "process body" 2014-10-01T08:42:20Z lrs: Or what you would say 2014-10-01T08:42:24Z pjdelport: The idea is that the tutorial would at least find the point where things get stuck: then i can explain that. 2014-10-01T08:42:40Z pjdelport: Well, just read the first bit of either of those links. 2014-10-01T08:42:45Z pjdelport: Where it explains Scheme syntax. 2014-10-01T08:42:54Z pjdelport: Work through it from the start: skip over the bits you already know. 2014-10-01T08:43:17Z pjdelport: But *don't* skip over anything you don't know: the first bit that's unclear, ask. 2014-10-01T08:43:21Z pjdelport: Then i can explain. 2014-10-01T08:43:41Z pjdelport: But i have to know which bit of foundation is missing: i can't guess. 2014-10-01T08:44:35Z pjdelport: So in other words, try from http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/curriculum-Z-H-5.html onwards 2014-10-01T08:45:15Z lrs: I already know everything on that page 2014-10-01T08:45:27Z lrs: My problem is understanding how you would do the "plate-reverse" thing 2014-10-01T08:45:31Z lrs: In the body 2014-10-01T08:45:34Z pjdelport: Or from http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/part_one.html onwards. 2014-10-01T08:45:38Z lrs: I get that you would use 2014-10-01T08:45:51Z pjdelport: lrs: How sure are you that you know everything? 2014-10-01T08:46:14Z pjdelport: I remember we've gone over this before... if what i said earlier doesn't make sense, then you probably *don't* know everything on that page. 2014-10-01T08:46:18Z lrs: That page is basic stuff, that I know 2014-10-01T08:46:34Z pjdelport: And i think that by ignoring knowing about the foundations, you're making it more difficult for yourself. 2014-10-01T08:46:52Z pjdelport: You can't skip it: you have to know the syntax before building more complex things out of it. 2014-10-01T08:47:10Z lrs: *sigh* Yes I know that 2014-10-01T08:47:16Z lrs: But I know that syntax 2014-10-01T08:47:22Z pjdelport: But i still don't know where the gap is. 2014-10-01T08:47:29Z lrs: What I dont get is the whole procedure, apply input output stuff that you named 2014-10-01T08:48:04Z pjdelport: What is unclear? 2014-10-01T08:48:25Z pjdelport: Defining procedures, or doing the list operations above? 2014-10-01T08:48:38Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/86QAQnfe 2014-10-01T08:48:39Z lrs: Here 2014-10-01T08:48:45Z lrs: Line 4 2014-10-01T08:49:22Z lrs: reverse1 = Procedure (?)) 2014-10-01T08:49:25Z lrs: l= list 2014-10-01T08:49:30Z lrs: if list is null it gives 0 2014-10-01T08:49:39Z lrs: append (it puts two lists together) 2014-10-01T08:49:50Z lrs: Where reverse1 (cdr l) is one and (list(car l)) 2014-10-01T08:49:51Z lrs: Is one 2014-10-01T08:53:26Z pjdelport: Well, don't think in terms of that procedure yet: think in terms of having two lists: both an input and an output list. 2014-10-01T08:54:04Z pjdelport: In other words: (define (reverse-helper input output) <...>) 2014-10-01T08:55:18Z lrs: reverse1 and l is a list? 2014-10-01T08:57:24Z pjdelport: Well, what you pasted is another approach that also works, yes, but the one i'm hinting at is perhaps more idiomatic. 2014-10-01T08:58:09Z pjdelport: Does the code you pasted make sense to you? 2014-10-01T08:58:41Z lrs: Everything except line 4 2014-10-01T08:59:51Z vanila joined #scheme 2014-10-01T09:00:16Z pjdelport: Well... line 4 is the heart of it. 2014-10-01T09:00:22Z pjdelport: Can you break it down into its parts? 2014-10-01T09:00:38Z pjdelport: Do you know the append function? 2014-10-01T09:01:02Z lrs: Append takes one list 2014-10-01T09:01:05Z lrs: and another list 2014-10-01T09:01:08Z lrs: And merge them together 2014-10-01T09:01:11Z lrs: list 1 2 3 2014-10-01T09:01:13Z lrs: list 4 5 6 2014-10-01T09:01:23Z lrs: append a b = 1 2 3 4 5 6 2014-10-01T09:01:28Z pjdelport: Cool. 2014-10-01T09:01:29Z lrs: if a = list 1 2 3 .. 2014-10-01T09:01:44Z tadni` joined #scheme 2014-10-01T09:02:14Z pjdelport: So there you have two lists: (reverse1 (cdr l)) and (list (car l)) 2014-10-01T09:03:01Z pjdelport: Can you see what lists each of those expressions will evaluate to? 2014-10-01T09:03:21Z pjdelport: Let's say that you (define l '(1 2 3)) 2014-10-01T09:04:09Z pjdelport: Given that, can you see what (list (car l)) would evaluate to? 2014-10-01T09:04:31Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T09:04:45Z lrs: Well 2014-10-01T09:05:05Z lrs: I get that the (list (car l)) is gonna take the first element of l and then createa list out of it 2014-10-01T09:05:21Z lrs: And in the other its gonna take the rest of l and use reverse1 2014-10-01T09:05:26Z lrs: But i dont get that stuff 2014-10-01T09:05:30Z lrs: The recursive reverse1 shi 2014-10-01T09:06:55Z pjdelport: lrs: Well, it's no different to any other call. 2014-10-01T09:07:03Z lrs: I dont get it 2014-10-01T09:07:05Z pjdelport: There's nothing special about it being recursive. 2014-10-01T09:07:07Z lrs: How the fuck can it call itself 2014-10-01T09:07:12Z pjdelport: There isn't anything to get: it's just a function call. :) 2014-10-01T09:07:13Z lrs: I dont get the recursive shit 2014-10-01T09:07:41Z pjdelport: lrs: There really is nothing to "get"; i think you may be thinking that it is special, when it actually isn't. 2014-10-01T09:08:01Z lrs: Why is the first recursive 2014-10-01T09:08:03Z lrs: And the other not? 2014-10-01T09:08:19Z pjdelport: How do you mean? 2014-10-01T09:08:27Z lrs: (reverse1 (cdr l)) < recursive 2014-10-01T09:08:33Z lrs: (list (car l)) < not recursve 2014-10-01T09:08:59Z pjdelport: Right, but the recursiveness has nothing to do with it: it's just a matter of calling the right function for the result that you want. 2014-10-01T09:09:14Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-01T09:09:19Z lrs: I dont get it what it calls 2014-10-01T09:09:31Z pjdelport: It's just a normal function call. 2014-10-01T09:10:44Z lrs: Call for what? 2014-10-01T09:11:16Z pjdelport: In order to reverse the list returned by (cdr l) 2014-10-01T09:12:31Z lrs scratches head 2014-10-01T09:12:40Z lrs: Heres my problem 2014-10-01T09:12:49Z pjdelport: lrs: Maybe consider a variation on this: a function that sums a list. 2014-10-01T09:13:08Z pjdelport: In other words: (define (sum-list l) <...>) 2014-10-01T09:13:22Z pjdelport: where l is a list of numbers, and you want to return the sum of it. 2014-10-01T09:16:48Z pjdelport: lrs: http://paste.lisp.org/display/143903 2014-10-01T09:17:33Z pjdelport: Consider that: it's very similar in structure to previous functions. 2014-10-01T09:18:19Z pjdelport: What that function is saying so far is that if the list is null, then its sum is 0, right? 2014-10-01T09:18:28Z pjdelport: Now, what is it when the list is not empty? 2014-10-01T09:18:32Z pjdelport: (be right back) 2014-10-01T09:25:40Z lrs: pjdelport, Thats the shit I have problem wiht. 2014-10-01T09:26:06Z pjdelport: (back) 2014-10-01T09:26:23Z pjdelport: lrs: Well, try breaking it down. 2014-10-01T09:26:31Z pjdelport: You have a list, and you want its sum. 2014-10-01T09:26:59Z pjdelport: You can get the head of the list with car, and the tail of it with cdr. 2014-10-01T09:27:04Z pjdelport: How do you transform those into the sum? 2014-10-01T09:28:19Z lrs: append? 2014-10-01T09:28:50Z lrs: (+ append ) 2014-10-01T09:28:51Z lrs: ? 2014-10-01T09:29:01Z lrs: Or no 2014-10-01T09:29:04Z lrs: you take each element 2014-10-01T09:29:08Z lrs: and + it 2014-10-01T09:29:14Z lrs: by doing a recursive thing that goes to zero 2014-10-01T09:29:20Z pjdelport: Right. 2014-10-01T09:29:38Z pjdelport: But just think in terms of the above: what can you add together? 2014-10-01T09:29:50Z pjdelport: You have (car l), and (cdr l) 2014-10-01T09:30:50Z lrs: Right 2014-10-01T09:35:28Z przl joined #scheme 2014-10-01T09:35:42Z lrs: pjdelport, How do you do that 2014-10-01T09:45:17Z vanila: lrs, The sum of the list (1 2 3) is (+ 1 (+ 2 (+ 3 0))) 2014-10-01T09:45:24Z lrs: Right 2014-10-01T09:46:39Z choas_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T09:46:51Z vanila: (car '(1 2 3)) = 1, (sum-list (cdr '(1 2 3))) = (+ 2 (+ 3 0)) 2014-10-01T09:48:05Z choas quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T09:57:07Z pjdelport: lrs: Sorry, was away again (we're having kittens :) 2014-10-01T09:57:14Z pjdelport: lrs: Does the above make sense? 2014-10-01T09:57:15Z vanila: again?? 2014-10-01T09:57:20Z lrs: Yes 2014-10-01T09:57:25Z pjdelport: vanila: My mom has a cattery. 2014-10-01T09:57:28Z lrs: Congratulations 2014-10-01T09:57:32Z vanila: \o/ 2014-10-01T09:57:39Z pjdelport: Kittens everywhere :) 2014-10-01T09:57:51Z pjdelport: 'tis the season. 2014-10-01T09:57:53Z vanila: kittsn all the time! 2014-10-01T09:58:13Z pjdelport: (We have two more queens expecting any time now.) 2014-10-01T09:59:25Z pjdelport: lrs: Cool... so can you see how sum-list is splitting apart the list into its head and tail, and then adding the head to the sum of the tail? 2014-10-01T09:59:53Z pjdelport: And it happens to be using itself to compute the sum of the tail. 2014-10-01T10:00:13Z pjdelport: But that's nothing special: it's just calling the same procedure (sum-list) with two different arguments. 2014-10-01T10:00:48Z pjdelport: It just keeps on doing that until it reaches the end of the list, which is the base case (a sum of 0) 2014-10-01T10:02:22Z lrs: Yes pjdelport 2014-10-01T10:04:20Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T10:04:28Z pjdelport: Coolness. 2014-10-01T10:04:58Z pjdelport: Have turned that into a working procedure that you can test locally? 2014-10-01T10:05:07Z pjdelport: "Have you turned", even 2014-10-01T10:05:25Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:05:56Z lrs: Thats the thing 2014-10-01T10:06:17Z lrs: I have no fucking idea, syntaxwise on how to do it 2014-10-01T10:08:13Z jusss joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:09:51Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-01T10:13:15Z weinholt quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-01T10:13:31Z pjdelport: lrs: There is a gap somewhere... i keep referring you to the basic syntax guides, and you say you understand everything. 2014-10-01T10:13:52Z pjdelport: Then when it comes to actually doing what is explained in those syntax guides, you say you have no idea how to aproach it... 2014-10-01T10:13:56Z weinholt joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:14:45Z pjdelport: Somewhere, there must be something in the syntax guides that you have not covered yet. 2014-10-01T10:14:54Z lrs: I dont get it 2014-10-01T10:14:54Z pjdelport: Or not fully understood yet. 2014-10-01T10:14:58Z lrs: What am I supposed to do 2014-10-01T10:15:03Z vanila: Why don' you follow an introductory text like this: 2014-10-01T10:15:08Z vanila: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-10.html 2014-10-01T10:15:13Z vanila: just work through that entire chapter 2014-10-01T10:15:30Z pjdelport: lrs: Go through those links i provided earlier, or through vanila's one. 2014-10-01T10:15:40Z edw quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T10:15:51Z pjdelport: Make sure you *actually* understand each bit: if you're at all unsure, ask here! 2014-10-01T10:16:10Z pjdelport: But you have to narrow down where the confusion is, otherwise there's no way to begin helping. 2014-10-01T10:16:19Z pjdelport: I cannot just guess what needs explaining. :/ 2014-10-01T10:16:32Z lrs: I said it before 2014-10-01T10:16:50Z lrs: How should i rephrase it 2014-10-01T10:16:56Z przl joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:17:19Z pjdelport: lrs: You've said that you don't get the syntax... and we're trying to help you understand the synatx. 2014-10-01T10:17:22Z pjdelport: syntax, even 2014-10-01T10:17:52Z Guest91815 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-01T10:17:55Z edw joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:18:06Z pjdelport: If you keep refusing to actually read those guides, i don't see any way for you to learn further, i'm afraid. :( 2014-10-01T10:18:17Z micro joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:18:17Z pjdelport: You *have* to cover that material. 2014-10-01T10:18:26Z pjdelport: There's no other way. 2014-10-01T10:18:36Z vanila: what was the other link? 2014-10-01T10:18:37Z lrs: What commands do I need to solve this 2014-10-01T10:18:37Z vanila: [s] 2014-10-01T10:18:39Z lrs: list 2014-10-01T10:18:41Z micro is now known as Guest62964 2014-10-01T10:18:42Z lrs: and car 2014-10-01T10:18:43Z lrs: cdr 2014-10-01T10:18:46Z pjdelport: vanila: HtDP, and a few others. 2014-10-01T10:18:53Z vanila: ah! 2014-10-01T10:18:55Z lrs: And then a recursive call to cdr l 2014-10-01T10:18:56Z lrs: ? 2014-10-01T10:19:03Z vanila: lrs, yeah and + of course! 2014-10-01T10:26:53Z lrs: vanila, (append (reverse1 (cdr l)) (list (car l))) 2014-10-01T10:26:59Z lrs: Why cant I do 2014-10-01T10:27:02Z vanila: looks great 2014-10-01T10:27:07Z vanila: do you have a lisp REPL? 2014-10-01T10:27:07Z lrs: The opposite 2014-10-01T10:27:34Z lrs: r 2014-10-01T10:27:35Z lrs: Or 2014-10-01T10:27:36Z lrs: Nevermind 2014-10-01T10:30:16Z vanila: lrs, do you have a lisp REPL? 2014-10-01T10:30:28Z lrs: YEs 2014-10-01T10:30:30Z lrs: DrRacket 2014-10-01T10:30:40Z vanila: great so you can try things like 2014-10-01T10:30:45Z vanila: (define l '(a b c)) 2014-10-01T10:30:51Z vanila: (append (cdr l) (list (car l))) 2014-10-01T10:30:56Z vanila: and see what result it gives 2014-10-01T10:31:19Z b4284 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-01T10:31:34Z lrs: vanila, How would I write 2014-10-01T10:31:39Z lrs: If I wanted 2014-10-01T10:32:21Z vanila: http://i.imgur.com/MLot4Sv.png 2014-10-01T10:33:07Z lrs: (reverse '((1 2) (3 4))) to become 2014-10-01T10:33:27Z lrs: (4 3) (2 1) 2014-10-01T10:33:32Z lrs: Instead of 2014-10-01T10:33:37Z lrs: ((3 4) (1 2)) 2014-10-01T10:33:52Z vanila: Have you finished sum-list ? 2014-10-01T10:35:40Z lrs: Hm 2014-10-01T10:35:50Z vanila: You should do the simpler things before harder ones 2014-10-01T10:36:37Z lrs: (+ (car lst) (sum (cdr (lst)) 2014-10-01T10:37:18Z lrs: (+ (car lst) (sum (cdr lst)) 2014-10-01T10:37:26Z pnkfelix joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:37:29Z pjdelport: lrs: Can you use that to fill in the missing bit of http://paste.lisp.org/display/143903 ? 2014-10-01T10:37:31Z lrs: (define sum lst) 2014-10-01T10:37:39Z pjdelport: (without using the built-in sum function) 2014-10-01T10:37:46Z vanila: lrs, that looks good! 2014-10-01T10:38:00Z pjdelport: (oh nevermind that about sum) 2014-10-01T10:40:21Z BossKonaSegwaY quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T10:40:34Z lrs: So how do I do the reverse stuff 2014-10-01T10:41:07Z vanila: (+ (car lst) (sum (cdr lst)) looks good 2014-10-01T10:41:15Z vanila: but can you write the full function? 2014-10-01T10:41:24Z vanila: you need this skill in order to do the reverse thing 2014-10-01T10:41:29Z superjudge joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:42:08Z lrs: ?? 2014-10-01T10:42:28Z lrs: (if (null? 2014-10-01T10:42:30Z vanila: yeah 2014-10-01T10:46:27Z vanila: can you write the full function? 2014-10-01T10:48:22Z lrs: define (sum lst)(if (null? )0 (+ (car lst) (sum(cdr lst))) 2014-10-01T10:48:31Z vanila: almost 2014-10-01T10:48:41Z vanila: (define (sum lst)(if (null? list)0 (+ (car lst) (sum(cdr lst)))) 2014-10-01T10:48:56Z vanila: ) 2014-10-01T10:48:57Z lrs: Right 2014-10-01T10:49:19Z vanila: so try it in the REPL 2014-10-01T10:49:29Z vanila: http://i.imgur.com/NsfAujV.png 2014-10-01T10:49:32Z vanila: its not perfect yet 2014-10-01T10:49:58Z vanila: can you get it working in DrRacket? 2014-10-01T10:50:22Z lrs: (sum (list 1 2 3)) 2014-10-01T10:50:32Z lrs: =6 2014-10-01T10:50:58Z vanila: so what is your correct definition of sum? 2014-10-01T10:51:08Z lrs: ? 2014-10-01T10:52:05Z BossKonaSegwaY joined #scheme 2014-10-01T10:59:45Z lrs: vanila, What do you mean 2014-10-01T11:00:27Z vanila: Have you finished writing sum correctly yet? 2014-10-01T11:01:02Z lrs: Yes (?) 2014-10-01T11:02:19Z vanila: can you show the code? 2014-10-01T11:05:46Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:05:49Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/eaujVCAR 2014-10-01T11:06:10Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:06:33Z vanila: lrs, that looks perfect 2014-10-01T11:06:34Z alezost quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-10-01T11:11:05Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T11:11:11Z acarrico joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:13:28Z alezost joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:16:16Z lrs: vanila, So how do I do a deep-reverse 2014-10-01T11:16:22Z BossKonaSegwaY quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T11:16:45Z vanila: (define (deep-reverse tree) 2014-10-01T11:17:03Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-10-01T11:17:13Z lrs: vanila, I need to do it 2014-10-01T11:17:17Z lrs: On a revere function 2014-10-01T11:17:43Z vanila: (if (symbol? tree) tree (reverse (map deep-reverse tree)))) 2014-10-01T11:21:26Z lrs: vanila, What does symbol? do 2014-10-01T11:22:49Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T11:23:35Z kongtomorrow quit 2014-10-01T11:26:05Z vanila: lrs, it checksif something is a symbol 2014-10-01T11:26:16Z vanila: check R5RS http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-15.html#%_index_start 2014-10-01T11:26:17Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/3xs7wx 2014-10-01T11:26:30Z vanila: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-6.html#%_idx_50 2014-10-01T11:26:31Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6z96dq 2014-10-01T11:27:38Z mario-go` is now known as mario-goulart 2014-10-01T11:30:10Z BitPuffin joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:30:14Z lrs: vanila, 2014-10-01T11:30:23Z lrs: What if i defined revere as 2014-10-01T11:30:46Z lrs: http://pastebin.com/WSKXUkR9 2014-10-01T11:31:03Z lrs: How would i redfine that as a deep-reverse 2014-10-01T11:31:24Z vanila: change (list (car l)) 2014-10-01T11:31:24Z vanila: to 2014-10-01T11:31:56Z vanila: (list (if (symbol? (car l)) (car l) (reverse1 (car l))) 2014-10-01T11:33:27Z BossKonaSegwaY joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:33:38Z lrs: vanila, Can you explain what you do 2014-10-01T11:35:28Z vanila: I dont know how to explain it 2014-10-01T11:35:43Z lrs: And it doesnt seem to work 2014-10-01T11:47:39Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:47:39Z jeapostrophe quit (Changing host) 2014-10-01T11:47:39Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:51:07Z icarot joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:54:10Z pjb` joined #scheme 2014-10-01T11:56:08Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T12:06:32Z przl joined #scheme 2014-10-01T12:06:55Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T12:11:19Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T12:11:45Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T12:13:49Z sad0ur quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-10-01T12:23:52Z gravicappa joined #scheme 2014-10-01T12:37:55Z zophy quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-01T12:38:32Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-01T12:39:22Z przl joined #scheme 2014-10-01T12:43:11Z civodul quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-10-01T12:50:50Z omefire quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T12:53:12Z pjb` is now known as pjb 2014-10-01T13:01:26Z davexunit joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:04:20Z jeapostrophe joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:05:02Z omefire joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:07:49Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:13:09Z aranhoide joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:14:39Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T13:18:38Z Riastradh joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:21:09Z icarot quit (Excess Flood) 2014-10-01T13:21:56Z acarrico: I was just reviewing the old psyntax source code, and I noticed that there was a newer one from a scheme called Ikarus, by Abdulaziz Ghuloum. It seems like work stopped on that a while ago. Anyone know the story? 2014-10-01T13:26:59Z oleo joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:26:59Z daviid joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:27:47Z Guest62964 is now known as micro 2014-10-01T13:27:53Z vanila: Ithink someone picked ikarus up 2014-10-01T13:28:22Z vanila: http://marcomaggi.github.io/vicare.html 2014-10-01T13:30:37Z acarrico: Ah thanks. I guess the original author must have graduated and moved on or something. 2014-10-01T13:31:43Z vanila: yeah 2014-10-01T13:41:36Z taylanub quit (Disconnected by services) 2014-10-01T13:42:11Z taylanub joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:42:35Z b4283 joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:49:42Z duggiefresh joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:58:12Z newcomer joined #scheme 2014-10-01T13:59:32Z mark_weaver quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T14:30:33Z ccl-logbot joined #scheme 2014-10-01T14:30:33Z 2014-10-01T14:30:33Z names: ccl-logbot weinholt leppie nehaljwani przl_ newcomer duggiefresh b4283 taylanub daviid oleo Riastradh aranhoide omefire jeapostrophe davexunit gravicappa pjb BossKonaSegwaY BitPuffin alezost acarrico superjudge pnkfelix micro edw jusss choas_ tadni` vanila frkout_ Sgeo ventonegro masm rtra fridim__ lrs bjz_ dmiles_afk zacts MichaelRaskin vukcrni poucet nisstyre Vutral tobik mario-goulart GGMethos abbe hjolt Gyps Nshag dsp certainty akp ivan\ mutley89 2014-10-01T14:30:33Z names: yacks guampa MouldyOldBones cidnes jcloud _tca jewel DGASAU joneshf-laptop gnomon araujo ivanshmakov balkamos Kruppe effy defanor ggherdov ft fgudin work_op cky sethalves joast fikusz cdidd gluegadget arrdem leo2007 Neet Saeren sigjuice ByronJohnson kbtr_ teiresias ozzloy_ Riviera ohama emma girrig_ DKordic`` Soft tsuyoshi SirDayBat Razz necronian rudybot ski cmatei copec eMBee jrslepak zbigniew_ anannie greghendershott dan64 Kabaka samth aksatac 2014-10-01T14:30:33Z names: pjdelport ELLIOTTCABLE carc akkad jkraemer tstc fadein averell FracV Kryo finnrobi renopt acieroid cataska kilimanjaro offby1 diginet nitrix gf3 stamourv aap_ mrowe_away Intensity gabot eli turbofail tessier Okasu ecraven ineiros amgarching aoh duncanm c74d z0d arbscht haroldwu antoszka twem2_ rotty_ LeoNerd mornfall petercommand _5kg SHODAN joneshf niklasl dca pygospa rsf cjh`_ Khisanth amoe cross xian cibs juanfra asumu pchrist dpk Blkt eagleflo 2014-10-01T14:30:33Z names: klutometis evhan Natch DerGuteMoritz C-Keen yosafbridge fizzie sung_ ctindall utkarsh 2014-10-01T14:30:44Z hiyosi joined #scheme 2014-10-01T14:30:44Z lrs: DerGuteMoritz, nvm 2014-10-01T14:30:47Z lrs: A question 2014-10-01T14:30:54Z lrs: If I do a function called "list-insert 2014-10-01T14:31:03Z lrs: And write lambda (el lst) (cons el ls) 2014-10-01T14:31:11Z lrs: Is that correct or do i need to write list ? 2014-10-01T14:33:12Z weinholt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T14:35:24Z iterrogo joined #scheme 2014-10-01T14:35:37Z weinholt joined #scheme 2014-10-01T14:56:18Z ecraven: lrs: what should list-insert do? 2014-10-01T14:56:26Z lrs: Insert element to a list 2014-10-01T14:56:30Z lrs: I think that work right 2014-10-01T14:56:37Z ecraven: insert at which place? 2014-10-01T14:56:45Z lrs: Any I think 2014-10-01T14:56:48Z lrs: Or the first place 2014-10-01T14:57:05Z lrs: If its the first place its correct right? 2014-10-01T14:57:10Z ecraven: yes 2014-10-01T14:59:49Z przl_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T15:00:00Z DerGuteMoritz: your definition is essentially just an alias for cons, though 2014-10-01T15:00:08Z clog joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:00:10Z lrs: Right 2014-10-01T15:02:24Z benaiah_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:02:33Z daviid quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T15:02:34Z pera joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:03:07Z benaiah_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-10-01T15:07:59Z przl joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:08:54Z lrs: Im trying to write a procedure add-n x 2014-10-01T15:09:00Z lrs: That will return a procedure 2014-10-01T15:09:32Z lrs: The returned procedure is gonna take a argument, and when that argument is called with a number, the som of x and y should be returned... 2014-10-01T15:09:33Z lrs: :| 2014-10-01T15:13:02Z przl_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:13:16Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T15:16:16Z BossKonaSegwaY quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T15:23:56Z civodul joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:28:05Z ecraven: lrs: do you know how to write a procedure that returns a procedure? 2014-10-01T15:28:16Z lrs: Not really sure 2014-10-01T15:28:21Z lrs: I think thats what I have problem with 2014-10-01T15:28:22Z lrs: -_- 2014-10-01T15:28:26Z ecraven: how do you write normal procedure? 2014-10-01T15:28:43Z lrs: (+ x y) 2014-10-01T15:28:45Z lrs: :X 2014-10-01T15:28:47Z lrs: <:S 2014-10-01T15:28:58Z ecraven: that is not a procedure, but an application 2014-10-01T15:30:47Z stepnem joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:31:24Z ecraven: (+ x y) applies the procedure + to x and y, it does not define anything 2014-10-01T15:31:38Z pjb: (lambda () a-procedure) returns a procedure that returns a procedure, if a-procedure is bound to a procedure. 2014-10-01T15:32:24Z pjb: (define (a-procedure) a-procedure) is a procedure that returns itself (until a-procedure is set to another procedure) (usually). 2014-10-01T15:33:03Z pjb: (eq? a-procedure (a-procedure)) --> #t 2014-10-01T15:36:00Z nehaljwani: Is this a valid beta-redex? '(((lambda (x) (lambda (y) ((z x) x))) y) z) 2014-10-01T15:36:05Z BossKonaSegwaY joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:36:24Z ecraven: nehaljwani: under which evaluation order? 2014-10-01T15:36:37Z nehaljwani: evaluation order? 2014-10-01T15:36:49Z nehaljwani: umm.. ? 2014-10-01T15:37:01Z vanila: what do you mean valid? 2014-10-01T15:37:08Z nehaljwani: right to left ? I don't know if there is some term for that. 2014-10-01T15:37:10Z nehaljwani: s/valid// 2014-10-01T15:37:13Z vanila: it's a beta redex because it's the application of a lambda with something 2014-10-01T15:37:23Z nehaljwani: is that a beta-redex? 2014-10-01T15:37:36Z ecraven: vanila: it's not a lambda, only if you reduce it first 2014-10-01T15:37:44Z nehaljwani: ecraven, exactly 2014-10-01T15:37:47Z vanila: oh yes you're right, thank you 2014-10-01T15:37:51Z nehaljwani: so is this beta-redex or not? 2014-10-01T15:37:54Z vanila: I misread it 2014-10-01T15:37:56Z vanila: its not 2014-10-01T15:38:03Z ecraven: nehaljwani: as I asked, that depends on your evaluation order 2014-10-01T15:38:10Z ecraven: under normal order, this is a redex 2014-10-01T15:38:31Z nehaljwani: ecraven, devfine evaluation order 2014-10-01T15:38:54Z lrs: pjb, ecraven uhhhhhhhgggghh 2014-10-01T15:39:00Z lrs: Im so fucking stupid 2014-10-01T15:39:43Z lrs: (define add-n x) 2014-10-01T15:39:54Z nehaljwani: ecraven, what is normal ordeR? 2014-10-01T15:40:07Z lrs: (lambda x) 2014-10-01T15:40:28Z ecraven: nehaljwani: tapl page 56, normal order, "the leftmost, outermost redex is always reduced first" 2014-10-01T15:40:46Z ecraven: full beta-reduction: any redex 2014-10-01T15:41:02Z ecraven: call-by-name: no reductions inside abstractions 2014-10-01T15:41:13Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-01T15:41:30Z ecraven: call-by-value: only the outermost redex is reduced, and only when its right-hand side has already been reduced to a value 2014-10-01T15:41:58Z ecraven: do you have tapl? 2014-10-01T15:42:32Z pjb: (lambda x) results into a procedure that takes any number of arguments and does nothing. 2014-10-01T15:42:37Z pjb: Is that what you meant? 2014-10-01T15:42:46Z ecraven: that is illegal syntax, is it? 2014-10-01T15:42:51Z pjb: It is legal. 2014-10-01T15:43:08Z pjb: Ah well, it seems it's illegal. 2014-10-01T15:43:17Z ecraven: not under the Schemes I just tried :): 2014-10-01T15:43:50Z ecraven: (lambda (&rest x)) works in CL though :) 2014-10-01T15:44:18Z nehaljwani: ecraven, I have eopl not tapl 2014-10-01T15:44:46Z hjolt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T15:44:48Z ecraven: nehaljwani: I think that's rather different ;) 2014-10-01T15:44:55Z nehaljwani: :'( 2014-10-01T15:44:55Z ecraven: anyway, did what I posted make any sense? 2014-10-01T15:45:21Z hjolt joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:45:23Z nehaljwani: afaik, call-by-{value|name} will be taught in next class :P 2014-10-01T15:46:02Z nehaljwani: could you please explain, how would you reduce the redex that I have shown above 2014-10-01T15:46:06Z nehaljwani: ecraven, ^ 2014-10-01T15:46:23Z nehaljwani: according to the code that I have written, I assume that it is not a redex 2014-10-01T15:46:34Z nehaljwani: but according to the test cases 2014-10-01T15:46:46Z nehaljwani: it has is reducable using beta rule 2014-10-01T15:47:01Z ecraven: nehaljwani: as I said, that depends on which strategy or order you apply 2014-10-01T15:47:14Z nehaljwani: ecraven, how many strategies exist? 2014-10-01T15:47:15Z ecraven: if you use full beta-reductions, you can reduce any expression, so it would fully reduce 2014-10-01T15:47:20Z ecraven: nehaljwani: at least the ones I posted :) 2014-10-01T15:47:24Z ecraven: I'm no expert myself :-/ 2014-10-01T15:47:33Z nehaljwani: okay, considering full beta redex 2014-10-01T15:47:36Z nehaljwani: what does that mean 2014-10-01T15:47:45Z ecraven: you can reduce any redex in any order 2014-10-01T15:48:26Z nehaljwani: how does it say that the one I have above is redcuible 2014-10-01T15:48:36Z ecraven: you can reduce all the lambdas 2014-10-01T15:48:44Z ecraven: well, the applications of lambdas actually 2014-10-01T15:49:22Z lrs: pjb ecraven Please help me 2014-10-01T15:49:26Z lrs: I dont understand 2014-10-01T15:49:36Z lrs: Explain it to me like im a stupid 2014-10-01T15:49:45Z nehaljwani: so you are saying that beta-redex? function should check the members of inside the application for further possibility of beta-reduction? 2014-10-01T15:49:51Z lrs: (define add-n x) (lambda x) 2014-10-01T15:50:29Z vanila: (define (add-n n) (lambda (x) (+ n x))) 2014-10-01T15:51:29Z ecraven: nehaljwani: if you apply such a strategy, then yes 2014-10-01T15:51:43Z drdanmaku joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:52:22Z przl_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-01T15:52:39Z nehaljwani: ecraven, what strategy is being used in http://www.cs.ucla.edu/~palsberg/course/purdue/cs565/F96/solutions/solutions3 2014-10-01T15:52:40Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/qhpgq66 2014-10-01T15:52:57Z przl joined #scheme 2014-10-01T15:55:19Z lrs: vanila, I understand everything so far 2014-10-01T15:56:10Z vanila: great :) 2014-10-01T15:57:14Z lrs: vanila, But after that..? 2014-10-01T15:57:16Z lrs: -_- 2014-10-01T15:57:36Z vanila: then you can relax :) 2014-10-01T15:58:01Z pjb: lrs: to create a procedure you need to execute a lambda form. for example: (lambda (x) (+ 2 x)) 2014-10-01T15:58:13Z pjb: You can bind this procedure to a name with (define add2 (lambda (x) (+ 2 x))) 2014-10-01T15:58:31Z pjb: You can also write it like this: (define (add2 x) (+ 2 x)) 2014-10-01T15:59:13Z pjb: lrs: Check: How to Design Programs -- An Introduction to Computing and Programming http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/ 2014-10-01T15:59:52Z nehaljwani: ecraven, ? 2014-10-01T16:00:37Z ecraven: nehaljwani: just checking, to make sure I'm right, a second 2014-10-01T16:01:26Z ecraven: is this "normal" lambda calculus you are working on? 2014-10-01T16:02:19Z lrs: pjb, It doesn work :| 2014-10-01T16:02:30Z ecraven: my guess would be you should use full beta reduction, so you should reduce any and all reducible expressions in the entire tree in any order you want 2014-10-01T16:03:00Z nehaljwani: okay 2014-10-01T16:03:16Z nehaljwani: ecraven, the link that I showed you isn't associated with my school 2014-10-01T16:03:20Z pjb: lrs: great. 2014-10-01T16:03:20Z nehaljwani: I was just using it for reference 2014-10-01T16:03:41Z ecraven: ok. even if that is wrong, you can impress your teacher by knowing that there are multiple beta reduction strategies ;) 2014-10-01T16:05:03Z lrs: pjb : I need to add something 2014-10-01T16:05:14Z ecraven: actually these strategies might be for evaluation, beta reduction is always on any term possible, I *think* 2014-10-01T16:05:38Z nehaljwani: ecraven, evaluation is automated .. let me complete this thing... I'll tell you a story why I got confused 2014-10-01T16:06:15Z ecraven: one problem in your example is you need to rename y, I think 2014-10-01T16:06:18Z lrs: "Write a procedure (add-n x) that returns a procedure. The returned procedure is going to take a arugment ( a number). When it is called with a number as argument, (for example y) the sum of x and y is going to be returned 2014-10-01T16:06:43Z kobain joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:07:54Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-10-01T16:08:12Z kobain joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:10:26Z pjb: lrs: I'm happy to know that's what you have to do. 2014-10-01T16:11:49Z lrs: Thats wha I have to do? 2014-10-01T16:12:03Z lrs: It just gives me a procedure 2014-10-01T16:12:05Z lrs: -_- 2014-10-01T16:12:34Z theseb joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:14:58Z Gyps_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:15:45Z mrowez joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:15:50Z pera_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:16:07Z b4284 joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:16:32Z jjjj2_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:17:39Z choas joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:17:43Z Gyps quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:17:43Z mrowe_away quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:17:43Z Gyps_ is now known as Gyps 2014-10-01T16:17:43Z pera quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:17:43Z choas_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:17:44Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:17:45Z b4283 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:17:45Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:18:11Z githogori joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:18:54Z pjb: lrs: do you understand what a procedure is? 2014-10-01T16:19:45Z araujo joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:20:50Z newcomer quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:20:52Z weinholt quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:22:22Z githogori quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:22:57Z lrs: pjb, I thought it should give me some kind of number 2014-10-01T16:23:26Z ventonegro quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-01T16:24:35Z przl joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:26:36Z weinholt joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:30:41Z pjb: lrs: right, so you don't know what a procedure is. A procedure is some block of code that takes parameters, evaluates some expressions, and (usually) returns some value(s). When you write a lambda form, the second element of the list is a list of parameters, and the rest (from the third to last element) is a list of expressions evaluated in sequence, as if in a begin form. Usually the result returned by the last form is returned by 2014-10-01T16:30:41Z pjb: the procedure. 2014-10-01T16:31:18Z pjb: So: (lambda (x) (display 'hello) (+ 2 x)) is a procedure that takes one argument as parameter x, that evaluates two forms: (display 'hello) and (+ 2 x) and which returns the result of (+ 2 x). 2014-10-01T16:31:49Z pjb: Now, write a procedure that takes one argument and returns 3 + that argument. 2014-10-01T16:42:05Z lrs: (lambda (x) (display 'hello) (+ 2x)) 2014-10-01T16:42:07Z lrs: I think 2014-10-01T16:42:15Z lrs: lol 2014-10-01T16:42:22Z lrs: (lambda (x) (display 'hello) (+ 3 x)) 2014-10-01T16:42:28Z lrs: u.u 2014-10-01T16:42:39Z pjb: No. Why do you display hello? THis is not required. 2014-10-01T16:43:08Z lrs: (lambda (x) (+ 3 x)) 2014-10-01T16:43:09Z lrs: ? 2014-10-01T16:43:16Z lrs: (lambda (x) (+ 3 x)) 2014-10-01T16:43:18Z pjb: Good. 2014-10-01T16:43:35Z pjb: Now, given a variable named foo, write a procedure that takes one argument and return the value bound to foo. 2014-10-01T16:47:27Z lrs: (lambda (foo) (+ foo 3) 2014-10-01T16:47:29Z lrs: :S 2014-10-01T16:47:52Z pjb: Nope. There's no 3 in the requirements, and foo is not a parameter, it's just a free variable. 2014-10-01T16:48:43Z Gyps quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:49:59Z phipes joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:50:27Z lrs: Hmmm 2014-10-01T16:51:32Z tadni` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-01T16:52:42Z newcomer joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:53:17Z vinleod joined #scheme 2014-10-01T16:55:30Z kazimir42 joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:03:30Z b4284 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-10-01T17:05:07Z pnkfelix quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.92.1) 2014-10-01T17:05:18Z aranhoide quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-01T17:07:28Z Riastradh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-10-01T17:08:23Z pjb: lrs: you may try again. 2014-10-01T17:08:37Z lrs scratches head 2014-10-01T17:10:16Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T17:12:41Z pjb: lrs: do you know how to get the value of a variable? 2014-10-01T17:18:53Z Gyps joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:18:54Z lrs: pjb I just call it after i define it 2014-10-01T17:19:07Z lrs: (define x) 2014-10-01T17:19:10Z lrs: (x) 2014-10-01T17:19:12Z lrs: :S 2014-10-01T17:21:05Z vanila: lrs: (define x ) 2014-10-01T17:23:12Z lrs: vanila, hmmm? 2014-10-01T17:23:12Z vinleod quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-10-01T17:23:30Z lrs: (define process list) 2014-10-01T17:23:32Z vanila: (define x) 2014-10-01T17:23:33Z vanila: this is bad 2014-10-01T17:23:39Z vanila: you need definition 2014-10-01T17:23:50Z jeapostr1phe joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:23:54Z lrs: Are you using proper scheme notaiton? 2014-10-01T17:23:56Z lrs: Parenthesis? 2014-10-01T17:24:23Z vanila: yes 2014-10-01T17:26:22Z jeapostrophe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-10-01T17:27:58Z lrs: vanila, So (define x value) 2014-10-01T17:27:59Z lrs: :S 2014-10-01T17:28:43Z BossKonaSegwaY quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-01T17:28:58Z vanila: yes good 2014-10-01T17:37:30Z alexei_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:38:03Z MichaelRaskin quit (Quit: MichaelRaskin) 2014-10-01T17:43:10Z pnpuff joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:43:54Z phipes quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-10-01T17:44:23Z Gyps quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-10-01T17:45:06Z Gyps joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:45:55Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-10-01T17:48:09Z BossKonaSegwaY joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:50:02Z mark_weaver joined #scheme 2014-10-01T17:53:53Z lrs: vanila, How do I use this add-n x 2014-10-01T17:54:00Z pjb: lrs: you don't know enough. You should read a book such as: How to Design Programs -- An Introduction to Computing and Programming http://www.htdp.org/2003-09-26/Book/ 2014-10-01T17:54:03Z vanila: what is the definition? 2014-10-01T17:54:19Z lrs: To create a multiplication procedure 2014-10-01T17:54:26Z vanila: lrs, Can you paste your code? 2014-10-01T17:54:27Z lrs: pjb: Im reading SICP but its crap 2014-10-01T17:54:31Z vanila: lrs, SICP is not crap 2014-10-01T17:54:43Z pjb: lrs: Or at least a tutorial. See http://www.schemers.org/ 2014-10-01T17:54:50Z Gyps quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-01T17:55:02Z vanila: lrs, Why would you say that? 2014-10-01T17:55:03Z pjb: lrs: SICP is not for newbies. You should start with htdp. 2014-10-01T17:55:08Z vanila: pjb, SICP is a beginners book 2014-10-01T17:55:28Z pjb: vanila: well, let's say there's a nuance between newbie and beginner :-) 2014-10-01T17:55:34Z vanila: alright :) 2014-10-01T17:56:39Z pjb: lrs: to get the value of a variable, you just evaluate the name of the variable. To get the value bound to the variable foo, you just write the expression: foo 2014-10-01T17:57:02Z pjb: lrs: therefore to write a function that takes an argument (ignores it) and return the value bound to foo, you write: (lambda (ignored) foo) 2014-10-01T17:58:45Z lrs: function(x) .... x= variable, to get the value of a variable i have to evaluate x ? 2014-10-01T17:58:50Z lrs: I have to write x? 2014-10-01T17:58:55Z lrs: How does that even make sense 2014-10-01T17:58:57Z pjb: No. 2014-10-01T17:59:07Z pjb: To get the value of a variable i, you have to evaluate i. 2014-10-01T17:59:22Z pjb: To get the value of a variable x, you have to evaluate x. 2014-10-01T17:59:50Z pjb: If you wrote x to get the value of the variable i, then it wouldn't make any sense. 2014-10-01T18:00:26Z pjb: (define foo 42) ((lambda (ignored) foo)) --> 42 2014-10-01T18:00:29Z lrs: If I have a variable x 2014-10-01T18:00:34Z lrs: That is dependent on the function f 2014-10-01T18:00:36Z lrs: f(x) 2014-10-01T18:00:44Z lrs: How can it be called by calling x 2014-10-01T18:01:00Z lrs: I would need to call the function for it to compute x 2014-10-01T18:01:02Z lrs: :| 2014-10-01T18:01:04Z vanila: lrs, Why would you say SICP is crap? 2014-10-01T18:01:06Z pjb: I don't understand how a variable can be dependent on a function and how you relate that with the notation f(x). 2014-10-01T18:02:05Z pjb: A scheme variable is named by a symbol and is bound to a value. There's no function in it. 2014-10-01T18:02:42Z lrs: So when you do (define x y) 2014-10-01T18:02:48Z lrs: You give x -> y 2014-10-01T18:02:52Z pjb: No. 2014-10-01T18:03:13Z pjb: y is evaluated, and any resulting value (that is bound to y) is bound to x. 2014-10-01T18:03:29Z pjb: if y wasn't defined, you get an undefined variable error instead. 2014-10-01T18:03:43Z vanila: lrs, You shouldn't just make claims like that without anything to back it up 2014-10-01T18:03:50Z pjb: Just go read the book. 2014-10-01T18:04:48Z lrs: Oh ok I get it 2014-10-01T18:06:48Z lrs: I dont really learn programming by reading a book though 2014-10-01T18:06:55Z lrs: Trial and error 2014-10-01T18:07:07Z pnpuff: vanila: maybe yo've to implement something similar to a getprop procedure 2014-10-01T18:07:38Z lrs: Shooting craps until I get it :| 2014-10-01T18:07:48Z vanila: lrs, so there's nothing wrong with the book, you just don't like to learn from a book 2014-10-01T18:08:28Z lrs: Yeah, it's my own opinion, it's probably great for some 2014-10-01T18:08:34Z vanila: okay 2014-10-01T18:08:40Z vanila: that's fair 2014-10-01T18:08:41Z pjb: lrs: sure, you keep the book on your knees, and type at the keyboard at the same time! 2014-10-01T18:09:01Z lrs: I have it up on one of my 50+ tabs 2014-10-01T18:09:11Z pjb: Read something. Try it out on the computer. Repeat. 2014-10-01T18:09:20Z lrs: I cant read a book for a long period of time, ADHD 2014-10-01T18:09:44Z pjb: That's just an excuse. You can still learn. 2014-10-01T18:10:13Z lrs: Yes I can, and i do that by my shooting craps analogue 2014-10-01T18:10:34Z lrs: Its impossible for me to concentrate on a book when 2 minutes in some other thought zooms into my head 2014-10-01T18:10:53Z pjb: Concentration is a learned skill. Practice. 2014-10-01T18:11:04Z pjb: Also, perhaps try to read faster. 2014-10-01T18:11:12Z lrs: No offonce. But you have no idea :| 2014-10-01T18:11:16Z daviid joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:11:21Z lrs: Its fucking hell 2014-10-01T18:11:37Z Gyps joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:11:49Z pjb: lrs: have you tried watching the sicp lectures instead of (or in a ddition to) reading the book? 2014-10-01T18:11:59Z lrs: But this is a schemeroom and not my therapist, so I will shut my piehole 2014-10-01T18:12:09Z pjb: lrs: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB63C06FAF154F047 2014-10-01T18:12:14Z lrs: pjb : I only saw the ones you posted 2014-10-01T18:12:16Z vanila: good idea! 2014-10-01T18:12:24Z vanila: the video lectures are really fun 2014-10-01T18:12:24Z lrs: Yeah I tried watching those 2014-10-01T18:12:34Z sheilong joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:12:55Z lrs: Where would I start do you think 2014-10-01T18:13:01Z lrs: I saw that one 2014-10-01T18:13:04Z vanila: start at the beginning 2014-10-01T18:13:08Z lrs: And how similar is lisp to scheme 2014-10-01T18:13:16Z vanila: just watch 10 mins of it at a time, then take a break 2014-10-01T18:13:18Z lrs: Im gonna do scheme -> python 2014-10-01T18:13:28Z vanila: scheme is a lisp 2014-10-01T18:13:32Z lrs: That I know 2014-10-01T18:13:35Z vanila: there's a lot of different lisp languages 2014-10-01T18:13:44Z vanila: scheme is very simple and short 2014-10-01T18:14:03Z pjb: You know, getting the value of a variable is the same in almost all the languages; to get the value of X, you write X. 2014-10-01T18:16:41Z lrs: pjb, Right 2014-10-01T18:16:51Z lrs: I just mixed up variabel with something else I think 2014-10-01T18:17:23Z lrs: Also its hard for me to understand all of this stuff, like definition, word-wise 2014-10-01T18:17:46Z pnpuff: but maybe he wants to know if exists a binding for a given variable in a given environment without get an error if the binding does not exists 2014-10-01T18:18:05Z pjb: The thing is that you're asking to write a procedure that returns a procedures, when you don't know how to write a procedure or how to return the value of a variable. 2014-10-01T18:19:30Z pjb: lrs: programming is very easy: it's lego play. You have little brics, that have some kind of interface/usage. You combine them in bigger compound blocs, and you combine the compound blocs in bigger compounds until you get that: http://lego.gizmodo.com/this-incredible-full-scale-lego-x-wing-is-the-largest-m-509484787 2014-10-01T18:19:31Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/kuy8drt 2014-10-01T18:19:50Z pjb: The trick, is to learn the little brics, and how to combine them. 2014-10-01T18:20:00Z pjb: It helps if you've played with real lego. 2014-10-01T18:20:31Z lrs: pjb : Yes thats true 2014-10-01T18:20:34Z lrs: I see it more like uh 2014-10-01T18:20:39Z lrs: Shells 2014-10-01T18:21:37Z githogori joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:23:45Z newcomer quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:24:14Z pnpuff: lrs: basically you've to see how expressions are evaluated by Scheme 2014-10-01T18:25:34Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:25:40Z zeto28 joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:27:30Z zeto28: can anyone tell me whether scheme2c is still good enough to work with contemporary scheme code? TIA. 2014-10-01T18:27:54Z lrs: Im gonna give this lecture a try 2014-10-01T18:28:11Z lrs: After that sleep, but ill probably be back to bother you tomorrow 2014-10-01T18:28:27Z pjb: I would judge by this: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-implementers.html 2014-10-01T18:28:45Z pjb: Given scheme2c isn't even listed on it, I'd say no. 2014-10-01T18:28:59Z pjb: lrs: Good learning! 2014-10-01T18:30:59Z zeto28: pjb: bummer. thanks anyway. is there another way to integrate scheme code into C? 2014-10-01T18:31:08Z wilfredh joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:31:33Z pjb: zeto28: or https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tRCHK6jWXuKMABKAfoOwWqw&output=html I don't know which one is more uptodate. 2014-10-01T18:31:34Z rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/pnljfb8 2014-10-01T18:31:50Z pjb: zeto28: there are a lot of schemes that are embedable in C. 2014-10-01T18:32:09Z pjb: zeto28: but often they're just basic r4rs or r5rs implementations, without a lot of libraries. 2014-10-01T18:32:28Z pjb: Probably guile would be the most complete embedable scheme, I'd guess. 2014-10-01T18:33:37Z zeto28: pjb: thanks, you were very helpful. 2014-10-01T18:33:41Z zeto28 quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-10-01T18:33:58Z vanila: what about chibi scheme? I've heard its a pretty good C scheme 2014-10-01T18:34:08Z vanila: havent got to trying it yet 2014-10-01T18:35:32Z pjb: I never tried it. 2014-10-01T18:35:50Z zacts is now known as helibovine 2014-10-01T18:39:04Z pjdelport quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:40:56Z ELLIOTTCABLE quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:42:05Z pjdelport joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:43:15Z ELLIOTTCABLE joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:52:03Z work_op_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:54:56Z gluegadget quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:54:56Z aksatac quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:55:24Z ELLIOTTCABLE quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:55:52Z pjdelport quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:55:57Z Neet quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:56:53Z drdanmaku quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:57:18Z kongtomorrow quit 2014-10-01T18:57:39Z ELLIOTTCABLE joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:57:47Z gluegadget joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:57:51Z Neet joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:57:53Z aksatac joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:58:16Z pjdelport joined #scheme 2014-10-01T18:58:33Z cdidd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T18:58:55Z drdanmaku joined #scheme 2014-10-01T19:00:18Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-10-01T19:03:57Z work_op_ quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-10-01T19:04:40Z Gyps quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-10-01T19:04:52Z newcomer joined #scheme 2014-10-01T19:05:06Z choas_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T19:05:19Z alexei_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-10-01T19:05:49Z MichaelRaskin joined #scheme 2014-10-01T19:07:06Z choas quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-10-01T19:09:18Z kongtomorrow joined #scheme 2014-10-01T19:11:08Z lrs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-10-01T19:12:54Z cdidd joined #scheme 2014-10-01T19:15:01Z araujo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-10-01T19:33:54Z alexei_ joined #scheme 2014-10-01T19:34:43Z turbofail: i haven't used chibi scheme for anything serious but it is fun to play with 2014-10-01T19:37:27Z vanila: ty! 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