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ZZZzzz] 03:42:55 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 03:44:17 i just built fresh racket from sources and installed plai-typed via raco, and running it from quack with racket -il plai-typed, but when trying the first pattern-matching example from PLAI (trying to define the "good?" predicate), getting an error - "caml: free variable while typechecking". what am i doing wrong? 03:47:21 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:49:35 -!- ijp [~user@host86-185-210-145.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 03:52:18 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:55:14 defanor: did you define the MisspelledAnimal type? 03:55:24 defanor: also you should probably ask questions like these in #racket 03:56:26 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 03:56:40 asumu: yep, it's defined. thanks, will try to ask there 04:02:25 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@ppp118-209-100-32.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:55 -!- mrowe is now known as mrowe_away 04:03:07 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 04:16:17 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 04:20:21 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.159.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:39 oxum [~oxum@122.164.159.110] has joined #scheme 04:21:09 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.159.110] has left #scheme 04:26:28 [Pete_27] [~noname@ppp118-209-100-32.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 04:35:07 -!- chengox [chengox@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:26 chengox [chengox@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:36:48 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:41 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.204.28.168] has joined #scheme 04:42:15 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:29 phipes [~phipes@unaffiliated/phipes] has joined #scheme 04:52:16 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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[~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:00:53 -!- sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:04:09 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 11:15:31 -!- bars0 [~Name@87.106.107.151] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:18:00 sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 11:33:24 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 11:41:05 bars0 [~Name@87.106.107.151] has joined #scheme 11:41:33 -!- mikeI [~michael@107.155.70.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 11:45:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:54:27 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #scheme 12:06:16 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-192-216.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:46 jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has joined #scheme 12:30:03 b4283 [~b4283@1-175-57-153.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 13:02:40 How do I get my outer procedure to return the value of the inner procedure. As my code is now, the inner function call in my example returns (6) and (3), not 6 and 3. https://gist.github.com/ironhouzi/877304df6b6b955ce818 13:05:27 I'll try using a lambda.. 13:05:59 iron_houzi: does the code you pasted work? 13:06:14 I'd expect it to cause an error. 13:07:01 The error is as I pointed out in my question, since (6) and (3) aren't valid procedures. 13:07:19 eg the object 3 is not applicable 13:07:55 Right. That's because you are calling the returned value of len-iter, which is a number 13:08:26 Just remove the extra pair of parens around the call of len-iter. 13:09:17 Thanks 13:10:00 you're welcome 13:10:11 no wait.. that returned 0 13:10:36 !? 13:11:14 I updated my gist 13:11:39 Was that what you meant? 13:11:46 mario-goulart: 13:11:47 iron_houzi: I mean the extra pair of parens on line 5. :-) 13:12:04 Ah.. 13:14:05 mario-goulart: Are you sure? That would make a call to the inner procedure, which would be out of scope no? 13:14:38 No, that's just a regular recursive call 13:18:40 iron_houzi: with two parens around it, you're calling the recursive procedure, and then trying to call its *result* (which is a number) 13:18:42 mario-goulart: Sorry for being so slow. Thank you so much for your help. It really made no sense for me to add that extra pair of parenths there. Well done spotting that out. I wonder if my eyes will get better at parsing the parenths at some point. Thanks again for your help and patience 13:19:08 pjdelport: Indeed. I just realized that. Thank you for wanting to help. 13:19:21 iron_houzi: you're welcome. If you have doubts, just ask here. 13:21:26 iron_houzi: Another way to implement that kind of loop is with a named let: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141273 13:22:28 Interesting thanks. 13:23:07 That's essentially the same as your solution, except that the defining and initial calling is wrapped into one 13:24:02 pjdelport: Is this a pattern you generally use when using inner procedures like this? 13:24:46 If you're only defining and using the procedure once, inline, then it's probably the preferred idiom, yes. 13:25:39 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #scheme 13:26:00 Very cool. What about the second line: (rest items) (count 0). Is this declaring and initializing rest and count in one fell swoop? 13:26:41 Yep. 13:26:52 Nice 13:27:03 You can think of the named let syntax as a hybrid of a procedure definition and a plain let block. 13:27:42 if you don't call the name ("loop" in the above case), then it behaves exactly like a normal let block. 13:28:42 So that's how rest and count are initialized. 13:28:45 I'm just learning about let. This is great stuff. 13:30:17 If you do call the name, you effectively rebind the let's bindings, and reevaluate the body. 13:30:30 so it's a very convenient way to write loops 13:32:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:55 (let, procedure-define, named-let, etc. are all just syntax sugar for lambdas and application, of course.) 13:33:09 I see 13:36:00 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:21 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 13:37:42 annodomini_ [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 13:38:02 SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #scheme 13:47:43 towodo [~anonymous@209-6-114-78.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 13:50:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:50:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:45 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #scheme 13:50:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 13:50:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 13:52:05 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #scheme 13:57:06 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 13:59:03 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:27 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #scheme 14:04:09 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61D9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:04:59 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:58 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:14:52 zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has joined #scheme 14:16:06 -!- alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61D9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:31 Very interesting: "I believe, by the way, this is how Lisp should be taught to novices: Teach them S-expression syntax first, set it firmly in their minds that such expressions are data, and only after that begin to teach them about evaluation." http://fexpr.blogspot.de/2011/06/primacy-of-syntax.html That is also the approach I've found most intuitive when I set out to teach the basics of Lisp to some friends. Though those were 14:16:31 already programmers, so teaching s-expressions themselves was trivial, but then again I think it should be quite easy to teach data-representation like sexprs and JSON to a non-programmer. 14:17:09 "Mike Gennert and I tried this approach with a class back in the spring semester of 1999/2000. [...] we didn't have the sorts of problems I've seen, or heard others describe, due to novice students failing to think in terms of evaluating S-expressions." 14:21:22 How could you teach it *without* teaching S-expression syntax first? 14:22:48 pjdelport: You can teach s-expression *syntax* without teaching the actual meaning of s-expressions (as data). 14:23:22 E.g. HtDP does that AFAIK. 14:23:48 And only moves on to e.g. `quote' much much later. 14:28:00 I think quoting must be the key concept. Glancing at HtDP, it teaches evaluation first, but even then, you must already have an implicit syntactical understanding of S-expressions. 14:28:54 Right, you can teach someone an intuitive understanding of sexpr syntax, just as a form of prefix notation. That won't teach them the fact that it's essentially just a concrete data format like JSON and XML. 14:28:56 But not necessarily an understanding that the same syntax is quotable and reinterpretable. 14:29:47 See, you're already thinking wrong. ;) It's not "quotable and reinterpretable", it's "quoted" by *default*, only `eval' starts to give it meaning (which then `quote' cancels again). 14:33:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@176.192.108.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:49 langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 14:38:35 -!- annodomini_ [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini_] 14:40:39 alexei [~amgarchin@p4FD61D9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:44:27 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 14:51:38 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-153-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:53:30 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: 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ZZZzzz] 21:26:47 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:48 -!- mario-goulart [~user@email.parenteses.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:05 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #scheme 21:28:27 mario-goulart [~user@email.parenteses.org] has joined #scheme 21:29:56 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:33:17 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:26 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-69-181-109-63.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46:35 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 21:46:56 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:48:13 -!- __greg [~Greg@216-129-179-180.arvig.net] has left #scheme 21:48:15 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #scheme 21:49:21 I'm trying to understand how lambda works. I'm not able to get this procedure to work: https://gist.github.com/ironhouzi/9c2c09efc9e60d55d88c - mainly because I don't know how to process the second part of the cons pair. I get: (1. [compound-procedure]) .. 21:50:04 What am I missing here? I don't know anything more fancy than let and let* and lambda .. so I need to use this to get it working. 21:50:11 -!- pnkfelix [~pnkfelix@89.202.203.51] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 21:50:55 iron_houzi: You wrote a procedure, `map2', that returns a procedure. 21:50:59 Was that your intent ? 21:51:06 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:51:17 Oh never mind, I see it was. :P 21:51:22 what? 21:52:47 taylanub: Do you see what I've missed? 21:53:28 Yes, let me try to explain ... 21:53:59 iron_houzi: Well it's simple, you call `map2' in the second operand of `cons', so it just returns a new procedure there. 21:54:27 Ah 21:54:38 .oO( I need to get some sleep. ) 21:54:57 sleep well 21:55:04 thanks :) 21:55:49 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xnbxwgagbafdbfjb] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:59:29 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:05 illerucis [~illerucis@cpe-72-225-194-43.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:04:53 -!- illerucis [~illerucis@cpe-72-225-194-43.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:25:25 Fare [~fare@172.56.35.163] has joined #scheme 22:27:29 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@gateway/tor-sasl/tiksa] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:10 -!- langmartin [~langmarti@host-68-169-175-226.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: quit] 22:30:50 -!- Fare [~fare@172.56.35.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:31:54 arubincloud [uid489@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dkzikncgufjmecgr] has joined #scheme 22:40:49 tiksa [~tiksa@gateway/tor-sasl/tiksa] has joined #scheme 22:46:42 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 22:48:37 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:51:23 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:52:52 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 22:58:49 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:59:02 aranhoide [~aranhoide@69.Red-83-57-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:01:56 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:02:23 add^_` [~user@m176-70-197-83.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 23:02:34 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:03:29 annodomini__ [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:29 -!- annodomini__ [~lambda@173-14-129-9-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:03:29 annodomini__ [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 23:04:24 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-192-216.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:04:56 -!- annodomini_ [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:54 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:06:55 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #scheme 23:12:09 jcowan [~John@earth.ccil.org] has joined #scheme 23:16:40 -!- annodomini__ [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini__] 23:16:49 -!- bars0 [~Name@87.106.107.151] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:16:52 -!- ijp [~user@host86-185-210-145.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:18:37 bars0 [~Name@87.106.107.151] has joined #scheme 23:18:37 ijp [~user@host86-185-210-145.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:19:57 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:20:08 -!- add^_` [~user@m176-70-197-83.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:45 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 23:27:10 joneshf-work [~joneshf@167.222-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #scheme 23:31:40 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #scheme 23:31:59 -!- ggrant [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:32:58 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-89-177-53-194.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:07 illerucis [~illerucis@cpe-72-225-194-43.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:47:49 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:50:39 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has joined #scheme 23:58:02 ASau` [~user@p54AFF98E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:58:48 nicdev` [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has joined #scheme 23:59:10 -!- nicdev [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]