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[~AkashicLe@CPE18593398c726-CM18593398c723.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: AkashicLegend] 07:34:02 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:15 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-201-114.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:30 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 08:03:06 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:06:19 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12:07 -!- vraid [50d8e34d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.216.227.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:18:49 pnkfelix [~Adium@bas75-2-88-170-201-21.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:27:38 is there any effective algorithm for edit distance of s-exps calculation? 08:30:30 ...together with diff. actually, i need just a shortest diff 08:31:20 found that for trees, but looks like it will not be effective for s-exps. and found something for s-exps, but it's not finished/effective 08:38:58 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 08:40:12 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-201-114.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #scheme 08:41:38 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #scheme 08:57:12 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:13 vraid [d91bbc5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.27.188.90] has joined #scheme 09:05:11 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:24 peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has joined #scheme 09:40:11 chenjf1 [~chenjf@14.209.226.146] has joined #scheme 09:40:33 -!- chenjf [~chenjf@183.44.27.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 09:42:45 ijp [~user@host86-132-92-201.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 09:43:40 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:44:17 oleo 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[~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46:16 -!- leppie [~lolcow@105-237-3-115.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:50:10 jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:50:14 hello everyone 16:50:22 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has joined #scheme 16:50:23 im trying to use the structures of interpreted languages book 16:50:48 i mean, structures and interpretation of computer languages 16:50:56 i cant find the chapters on macro 16:50:59 s 16:50:59 leppie [~lolcow@105-236-68-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:51:14 can somone direct me to where i can find information about macros 16:54:54 i'm not sure that book goes over macros. at least not the parts i've gone over. macros are more of a scheme/lisp specific thing; that book tries to be more universal 16:55:39 what implementation are you using? 16:56:38 if you're using an R5RS implementation, it probably just has syntax-rules, which is pretty simple, and i bet you can figure it out in an hour of googling and hacking. 16:59:08 i don't know of a good source of info for syntax-case in Scheme. Racket has a good tutorial called "Fear of Macros" but a lot of it is Racket-only and doesn't port back to Scheme. 17:00:46 -!- pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066bdd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:01:13 pygospa [~Pygosceli@kiel-4d066055.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:24 jenia_: sicp does not cover macros at all 17:04:34 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #scheme 17:05:04 okay thanks 17:07:21 The PLAI ("Programming Languages: Application and Interpretation") book has a chapter (Chapter 13: Desugaring as a Language Feature) on macros in general. Though it's on the topic of implementing a macro system, not using one. 17:08:05 Hm, or maybe it's about using (the Racket) one. It's a pretty short chapter. 17:08:07 "Writing hygienic macros in Scheme with syntax-case." is alright, as long as you remember that two of the procedures got renamed 17:08:11 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:12:14 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:33 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:11 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:15:19 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:15:38 my best attempt at describing macros is here: http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Macros.html#Macros 17:15:58 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:51 -!- leppie [~lolcow@105-236-68-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:22:37 the best macro tutorial is Fear of Macros, and it will help you understand any procedural macro system, although it takes some work to see how to map it from Racket 17:23:25 leppie [~lolcow@105-237-3-115.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:23:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-18.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:25:39 ooh i don't know that one :) 17:26:26 hmm, making that one by non-racket would require a lot of niggling edits 17:26:40 greg seems to be doing lots of great stuff recently 17:27:00 -!- jrapdx [~jra@c-98-246-145-216.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:28 No results found for "fear of image macros". 17:28:50 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:00 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.161] has joined #scheme 17:32:34 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:35:34 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:03 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:37:29 vraid [50d8e34d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.216.227.77] has joined #scheme 17:37:38 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:51 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:39:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:39:39 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:54 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 17:39:57 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:41:17 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:35 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:48:09 when might I want to use OOP and when would I want to use functional programming? 17:48:12 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:34 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:49:14 -!- b4283 [~b4283@118.150.134.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:18 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:36 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:50:54 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:51:43 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:54 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:25 j3pl [~Adium@38.102.133.114] has joined #scheme 17:57:11 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:35 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 18:02:20 -!- ijp [~user@host86-132-92-201.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:49 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:07 ijp [~user@host86-132-92-201.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 18:05:26 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 18:09:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:10:35 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:10:49 tcsc [~tcsc@67.221.73.176] has joined #scheme 18:15:32 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 18:17:03 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-215-99.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:26 add^_ [~user@m176-70-215-99.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 18:33:38 adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:34:07 zacts: OOP is when you have state to manage. 18:34:14 functional is when you don't want state. 18:34:22 Now, ocaml, is when you're schizophrenic. 18:35:16 pjb: so I guess the question turns into, when would you want state vs no state? 18:36:22 you never want state, simples! 18:36:26 When you believe things change, you have state. When you belive things are always the same, you have no state. 18:36:51 zacts: check http://cheatingtheferryman.blogspot.fr/2007/10/feynmans-one-electron-universe-theory.html 18:36:53 seriously, this is a very weird question, and I don't have an answer other than: see what works best for you 18:36:59 http://tinyurl.com/p3nkhww 18:37:24 Well, the physical world looks like it has state. You put a stone there, somebody paints it red, you get it back it's red. 18:37:33 So it makes sense to use OO to modelize the physical world. 18:37:54 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:50 pjb: does OOP help to reduce the complexity introduced by side effects of statefulness? 18:38:53 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 18:39:00 isn't that the whole goal of OOP? 18:39:25 OOP helps you manage state by grouping it in more manageable chunks, FP helps you by reducing it, and being very explicit about it 18:39:27 zacts: Yes, by limiting the scope of those side effects. 18:39:55 the two aren't even mutually exclusive, you can have a functional object system 18:40:01 zacts: objects encapsulate state with methods, so that the effects of state changes are limited to those methods, and nothing else. 18:40:17 I see 18:40:18 ijp: yes, ocaml. Or OO prolog. Both are silly things :-) 18:40:43 well, I expect most ocaml programmers use stateful objects 18:40:53 oh wait, no-one uses the ocaml object system 18:41:32 I'm focusing on smalltalk OOP now, I eventually want to use scheme and haskell to explore functional programming. 18:41:35 Well, it's a little antinomic, but I tend to like hybrid languages, like lisp, which lets you write in multiple paradigms. 18:42:20 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:20 zacts: for example, while Smalltalk objects are stateful, you can limit the number of methods that have side effects (modifying the state of their objects) and instead multiply the purely functional methods. 18:42:21 I guess SICP is great, but I've heard it's OOP section is not as great as if I learn smalltalk 18:42:28 zacts: this has good practical advantages. 18:43:02 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 18:43:10 zacts: the whole of sicp chapter 3 is kind of a let down from the rest 18:43:19 zacts: function routines are easier to debug and prove. 18:43:27 functional 18:45:30 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-25-254.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:55 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-25-254.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:46:05 -!- pjb is now known as Guest68508 18:46:15 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:46:48 -!- Guest68508 is now known as pjb 18:48:16 yeah, noone uses objects in ocaml 18:48:53 well, I do, but I'm the only person I've met so far that does 18:49:06 probably because it sucks 18:49:49 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:54 I only have a desire to learn C/Perl/Python/scheme/smalltalk/haskell/javascript really.. 18:50:05 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 18:50:09 haha 18:50:36 zacts: actually, there is a really good analogy for why you'd want to use OOP vs FP, that i don't have time to type up now. 18:51:10 but you can find it in the UW course on Programming Languages on Coursera. there's a whole video on it in one of the later weeks 18:53:10 oh cool 18:53:53 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:10 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 18:58:20 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #scheme 18:59:49 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 19:00:15 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:21 i believe it's under the name "oop vs. functional decomposition," or someting like that. though you probably have to sign up for coursera and also the course. so much for open. 19:00:27 worth a youtube search, though. 19:01:01 also, my friend acarrico tells me there's a Phil Wadler article about the same thing, under the name "The Expression Problem," though i haven't read it yet. 19:01:01 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 19:01:54 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:02:12 http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/papers/expression/expression.txt 19:02:54 do you know java's RMI approach? jazz has something similar 19:03:03 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:23 sorry. misstell 19:08:03 zacts: guess what i just dug up on the inter-you-tubes for you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub9pxeWW3PE 19:08:20 it's an idealized analogy, but it's food for thought. 19:09:12 oh thanks! 19:09:18 I'll have to check it out 19:09:43 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #scheme 19:38:31 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:18 gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:42:52 how do ( (a b) (c d) (e f) ) --> (a c e) ??? 19:42:58 i.e. get firsts 19:43:08 ....especially if arbitrary num of pairs! 19:44:28 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:33 (map car ((a b) (c d) (e f))) 19:45:41 don't forget to quote the list :) 19:46:06 -!- gcartier [~gcartier@modemcable010.136-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:14 brianmwaters: yay! thanks! 19:52:20 you should read about what map does :) 19:54:08 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-35-240-163.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:27 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-168-111-154.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:00:55 -!- microcode [~microcode@bas1-toronto04-2925396266.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Changing host] 20:00:55 microcode [~microcode@unaffiliated/microcolonel] has joined #scheme 20:04:36 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:05:55 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #scheme 20:06:09 *acarrico* ponders the expression problem. 20:14:55 -!- jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:09 *brianmwaters* wonders if acarrico is going to Scala Koans later 20:16:31 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD90FBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:17:00 taylanub [tub@p4FD917FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:18:45 *acarrico* is going to Scala Koans later. 20:19:03 acarrico: being that Scala is supposedly good at both OOP and FP styles, it may be a good medium to poder such problems... but i digress... 20:21:03 it could be. 20:21:29 I remember a good clojure video on the topic when they were introducing their solution. 20:21:44 *acarrico* rolls pizza dough. 20:21:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-57-251.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:24:05 sounds great the the scheme workshop will be co-hosted w/ clojure/conj 20:24:15 a great synergy there i think 20:29:19 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:30:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:29 -!- brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:56:33 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 21:05:19 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:07:17 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:11:18 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:51 -!- ijp [~user@host86-132-92-201.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 21:14:43 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:35 -!- AkashicLegend [~AkashicLe@CPE18593398c726-CM18593398c723.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: AkashicLegend] 21:19:42 Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has joined #scheme 21:22:02 -!- Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:06 pnkfelix [~Adium@212.76.224.120] has joined #scheme 21:30:13 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@212.76.224.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:27 main [~main@agee55.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #scheme 21:30:31
Hi. 21:31:44 -!- tcsc [~tcsc@67.221.73.176] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 21:32:32
Nvm. Was going to ask about an nice interpreter but looked once more on my system and scheme-r5rs (gambitc) seem good. 21:35:26 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:56 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:40:46 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:41:26 brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #scheme 21:43:01 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:56
"ERROR -- macro name can't be used as variabe: or" 21:44:08
any way of baypassing this ? 21:48:56 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:49:54 adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:50:50 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-178-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:21
what is the most popular convention of multi line comments in scheme ? 21:51:27 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:51:36
does r7rs state one ? 21:52:02 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:49 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD61408.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:52:59 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 21:53:45 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 21:57:50 -!- davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:58:01 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@209.99.209.15] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:15 acarrico [~acarrico@209.99.209.15] has joined #scheme 21:59:49 davexunit [~user@fsf/member/davexunit] has joined #scheme 21:59:54 if I remember correctly, r7rs had two ways of doing multiline comments 22:02:35 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@209.99.209.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02:39 AkashicLegend [~AkashicLe@CPE18593398c726-CM18593398c723.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:05:44 lucasss [b113dac8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.19.218.200] has joined #scheme 22:09:19 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 22:10:11 -!- lucasss [b113dac8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.19.218.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:11:08 zacts: coursera Programming Languages is starting in a couple of hours 22:13:56 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 22:16:53 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:21 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 22:17:50 -!- AkashicLegend [~AkashicLe@CPE18593398c726-CM18593398c723.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: AkashicLegend] 22:20:52 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #scheme 22:21:03 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:42 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:12 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 22:26:08 scmaccal [~scmaccal@bb-216-195-184-157.gwi.net] has joined #scheme 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