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[~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #scheme 15:17:53 palach [~palach@128-68-42-228.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:21:58 -!- palach [~palach@128-68-42-228.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:26 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:35:25 -!- DeathByDoubleD-1 [~DeathByDo@108-75-113-253.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleD-1] 15:49:39 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 16:00:39 annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:00:39 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-76-23-156-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:00:39 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 16:02:19 gfredericks [~gary@nginx.gfredericks.com] has joined #scheme 16:06:00 I'm trying out gambit scheme for more-or-less the first time; where should I expect to find API docs for doing e.g. file I/O? 16:08:25 -!- hiroakip 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joined #scheme 17:57:57 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@216.2.249.165] has joined #scheme 18:06:39 cygo [~cyg@50.46.151.3] has joined #scheme 18:06:45 how can i undefine a procedure in scheme? 18:07:04 you don't 18:07:20 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 18:07:25 i redefined + but it's broken and i need to get rid of it 18:07:29 You limit the scope of where it exists. 18:07:47 Oh .. the default one should be reachable as (@@ (guile) +) or something I guess ? 18:07:48 cygo: if you have no existing reference to the original procedure +, then it's gone 18:08:26 undefining wouldn't help you, since it would only remove the binding for + in the global environment, not reset it to normal 18:09:29 Uh, after I do (set! + 0) in the REPL in (guile-user), (@@ (guile) +) gives back 0, so I suppose it's gone. 18:09:58 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:00 guile and guile-user are practically the same thin 18:10:01 g 18:11:17 hum, i guess not; was thinking they shared an obarray 18:12:40 the + i defined is in the global environment 18:12:50 so i need to remove it 18:15:35 cygo: you realise it won't get the old definition back, right? 18:16:26 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:16:29 but undefining is implementation specific (where it exists) 18:16:42 so you'll need to say what implementation you are using 18:17:05 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:18:50 it's Dr Racket 18:19:06 I imagine the racket folks are pretty firmly in the "no undefining" camp 18:20:20 snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 18:24:42 well i won't do that again 18:32:01 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 18:32:01 -!- kilon [~kilon@77.49.170.147.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 18:32:01 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #scheme 18:32:58 cygo: (define (+ . args) (if (empty? args) 0 (if (empty? (cdr args)) (car args) (- (foldl (lambda (a b) (- b a)) (- (car args)) (cdr args)))))) 18:33:19 + as was 18:36:09 vraid: amusing 18:38:41 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #scheme 18:42:25 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:32 vraid: what does that do? it's too advanced for me 18:42:57 cygo: it's + defined in terms of - 18:43:22 but it covers the fact that + works on 0 or more arguments 18:44:35 what is i redefined + and - brokenly? 18:45:07 then you'd need to do something even more complicated 18:47:22 cygo: are you too far into something to restart? 18:49:46 rudybot: (define (+ a b) (log (* (exp a) (exp b)))) 18:49:47 ijp: Done. 18:49:51 rudybot: (+ 10 20) 18:49:51 ijp: ; Value: 30.0 18:50:16 of course, since floating point is involved, that one will not work very will all the time 18:50:30 but where there's a will, there's a way, and all that 18:50:40 Agent-P [~fk5oxid3@ce1.net.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #scheme 18:50:50 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:00 Hi All 18:52:25 vraid: it was just a theoretical question 18:52:54 cygo: your homework is to come up with one more definition of + 18:52:59 does anyone have a paper about Trees (Binary trees) in Racket ! 18:53:08 I've seen examples (Family example) but it wasn't enough to understand the General Idea ! 18:53:28 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD91D1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:53:34 ijp: can i just switch the order of your log exp example? :p 18:53:51 *ijp* thwacks cygo on the nose with a ruler 18:54:04 taylanub [tub@p4FD91246.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:54:32 Hey 18:54:35 Jerk D: 18:54:45 smackin' noses 18:54:54 >:I 18:55:26 unlike you, I am sure they took that in the appropriate spirit 18:56:01 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:17 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:19 *Giomancer* thbbbt 18:56:27 Just teasing. D: 18:57:19 ijp: are you sure another cute way exists? 18:58:08 -!- sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:00:01 well, there is one obvious way, but it's not guaranteed to work 19:00:40 and the really terrible way using strings 19:12:29 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #scheme 19:13:02 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:15:19 ijp: i need a hint for the obvious way 19:15:20 redscare [~Adium@18.205.1.210] has joined #scheme 19:16:19 cygo: sub1 and add1 19:17:13 wow you can call assembly from scheme? 19:17:25 rudybot: (sub1 3) 19:17:26 ijp: ; Value: 2 19:17:27 I understand that this can be a polarizing question, but here goes. I am planning on writing a fairly math-heavy application in scheme, and need to choose an implementation. The main factors are speed, good number support (i.e. not Bigloo), and availability of continuations. Any recommendations? Currently stuck between Chicken, Gambit, and Racket, but open to change my mind 19:17:31 rudybot: (add1 3) 19:17:31 ijp: ; Value: 4 19:17:44 rudybot: help 19:17:44 dpk: bug ..., help [], version, quote, source, url, seen , uptime, t8 ..., botsnack, init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc 19:17:49 rudybot: source 19:17:49 dpk: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git 19:18:45 -!- agumonkey [~agu@170.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:52 ijp: in Dr Racket I don't ahve subl addl 19:19:02 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C430B0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:19:24 rudybot: subl 19:19:24 cygo: it's command is subl 19:19:26 the number 1, not the letter l 19:19:30 oh 19:20:35 how is this not guarnteed to work then? 19:20:38 because it might have been implemented (define (add1 x) (+ x 1)) 19:20:51 agumonkey [~agu@170.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:51 I usually call that succ 19:21:00 rudybot: sub1 19:21:02 cygo: as my result is flattened and i need it with sub lists 19:21:25 cygo: you'll need to say 'eval' when you have an identifier 19:21:28 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:21:31 rudybot: eval sub1 19:21:31 ijp: ; Value: # 19:21:41 rudybot: (define (loop-forever) (loop-forever)) 19:21:41 dpk: your sandbox is ready 19:21:41 dpk: Done. 19:21:42 or he'll be a smartass 19:21:45 rudybot: (loop-forever) 19:21:55 dpk: error: with-limit: out of time 19:22:00 huh, nice 19:22:08 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:22:37 *offby1* nods gravely 19:22:56 FSDO "forever" 19:23:05 that bot has been fielding "eval" requests for a couple of years. I won't say it's bulletproof, but we've protected against all the obvious attacks 19:23:26 now that I have an updated racket, I should probably run a separate instance of rudybot so that I can see if my method still breaks it 19:23:33 *offby1* nods gravely 19:23:38 rudybot: version 19:23:38 *offby1: unknown 19:23:42 *gasp* 19:23:45 rudybot: eval (banner) 19:23:46 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 19:23:46 *offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.3.2.\n" 19:23:49 -!- Agent-P [~fk5oxid3@ce1.net.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:53 I don't even know if that's out of date. 19:24:05 current is 5.3.6 19:24:09 well then. 19:24:34 I should have the bot ping the PLT site every week or so, and start fidgeting or clearing his throat when he finds he's out of date 19:24:39 rolling his eyes. 19:24:47 These are all accepted user-interface paradigms. 19:24:52 offby1: you should have a "hall of shame" list for people like me and asumu who've broken rudybot :) 19:25:07 I do; it's called the github "issues" page 19:25:07 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:25:49 rudybot: you know who the criminals are, destroy them 19:25:50 ijp: Former criminals rose to become some of America's greatest leaders in law, industry, and politics. This possibility seems to be narrowing as criminal records become electronically stored and accessible.^[11] 19:26:10 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:26:20 yes, in future, we will have to breed politicians away from the internet 19:26:49 it will make them unrepresentative of the people they govern, but that's nothing new 19:29:54 -!- hashcat [~chatzilla@1-172-253-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-218.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34:13 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 19:37:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138859 i a mnot sure why this seems to always subtract 19:38:01 i added a case for increasing a if b is > 0 19:38:12 cygo: you are missing some parentheses 19:38:45 plus (sub1 a) (sub1 b) means, get the value of plus, subtract 1 from a, and then subtract 1 from b 19:38:48 oh nice 19:39:11 (plus (sub1 a) (sub1 b)) is probably what you meant 19:39:17 it works now thanks 19:39:34 i wonder if i can understand how to do the string hack way 19:39:46 do i need to know lists for it? 19:39:53 probably 19:40:00 ok i will skip it for now 19:46:30 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #scheme 19:54:50 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:57:22 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:58:24 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@216.2.249.165] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleDip] 19:59:30 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:56 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:01:13 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 20:05:07 _ln [~ln@84.233.246.170] has joined #scheme 20:05:37 -!- _ln [~ln@84.233.246.170] has left #scheme 20:06:30 I hate to repeat myself, but are there recent numbers on general performance between chicken, gambit, and racket? I've seen a few things that suggest that modern racket is actually faster, but is this really true? 20:10:29 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:46 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:41 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD63881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:12:22 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD63881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:13:30 jyc_ [~jyc@173.245.6.163] has joined #scheme 20:14:02 -!- jyc [~jyc@173.245.6.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:16:10 redscare: that sort of question is so broad that the only reasonable answer is "try it yourself" 20:16:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:16:24 I've found that bignum division is quite fast in racket. But that's the only thing I've tested. 20:27:21 civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has joined #scheme 20:34:42 langmartin [~user@host-68-169-154-130.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #scheme 20:35:46 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:56 githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:37:42 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:42:21 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@66-215-80-161.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:45:30 -!- civodul [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/civodul] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:50 davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:50:00 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 21:15:38 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@66-215-80-161.dhcp.psdn.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleDip] 21:18:43 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #scheme 21:26:25 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-99-185.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:29:38 -!- pjb [~t@90.24.198.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:29:40 -!- ijp [~user@host81-155-29-103.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: The garbage collector got me] 21:41:54 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:15 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@12.145.136.107] has joined #scheme 21:44:35 -!- samth [~samth@c-98-223-233-69.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:48:50 -!- amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD63881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:03 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD63881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:50:08 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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22:22:27 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #scheme 22:22:27 gluegadget [~amir@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has joined #scheme 22:22:38 offby1` [~user@ec2-54-215-10-197.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #scheme 22:22:38 hive-mind [pranq@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #scheme 22:23:20 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 22:23:27 -!- offby1 [~user@ec2-54-215-10-197.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:23:27 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 22:30:28 -!- agumonkey [~agu@170.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:32:55 -!- bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:57 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 22:44:01 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317559.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 22:50:32 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 22:53:28 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p57A5C491.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:55 foeniks [~fevon@p57A5C491.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:55:18 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 22:58:35 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p57A5C491.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:36 -!- karswell` [~user@87.112.183.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:33 so besides the C interop is there any reason to choose something like Gambit or Chicken over Racket? 23:04:31 karswell [~user@87.114.128.190] has joined #scheme 23:06:07 redscare: Choosing a Scheme implementation means choosing a tribe. 23:06:12 *taylanub* Googles for that article .. 23:06:31 http://wingolog.org/archives/2008/07/10/how-to-choose-between-equivalent-options 23:06:32 http://tinyurl.com/m3rg6w6 23:06:36 http://wingolog.org/archives/2013/01/07/an-opinionated-guide-to-scheme-implementations 23:06:37 http://tinyurl.com/b3fjhzx 23:06:53 hashcat [~chatzilla@1-172-253-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 23:10:47 adiii [~adityavit@c-50-136-206-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has 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