00:04:53 I'm so close to being done with simply scheme. I only have two more chapters to go. 00:05:13 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:07:33 can't wait until I make a spreadsheet and database application with simply scheme. 00:10:05 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:33 -!- pumpkin360 [~main@aeoi212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:13:19 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:34 -!- mrowe_away is now known as mrowe 00:15:02 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:43 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:18:09 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:59 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:41:00 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:35 siag office 00:42:03 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 00:44:26 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:12 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:49:08 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:50:48 -!- davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:36 trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 00:53:16 agumonkey [~agu@117.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 00:57:47 -!- Guest14932 [~klutometi@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Changing host] 00:57:47 Guest14932 [~klutometi@pdpc/supporter/professional/klutometis] has joined #scheme 00:57:54 -!- Guest14932 is now known as klutometis 00:59:05 aranhoide [~smuxi@46.Red-79-153-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:12 -!- tcsc [~tcsc@c-71-192-176-137.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye!] 01:04:44 -!- mmc1 [~michal@j212142.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:09:57 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@173-10-14-122-BusName-stockton.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:23:00 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 01:23:14 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:18 bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 01:23:31 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:27:09 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD60FB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:30:37 -!- Modius [~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 01:31:09 Modius [~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:37:22 genericpersona [~genera@gateway/tor-sasl/genericpersona] has joined #scheme 01:37:24 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 01:40:35 -!- jarod_ch_ [~jarod_che@115.205.239.204] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 01:43:20 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:46:20 bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 01:46:20 -!- bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@117.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:15:02 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@46.Red-79-153-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 02:22:54 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:23:20 tabemann [~travisb@adsl-76-228-193-102.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:23:48 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:24:28 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:53 -!- genericpersona [~genera@gateway/tor-sasl/genericpersona] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:25:10 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:27:08 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:02 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:46:22 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:48:58 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 02:53:01 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:55 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:03:45 hm.. are there any other languages other than scheme that implement tail call optimization? 03:04:03 -!- tabemann [~travisb@adsl-76-228-193-102.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:13 maybe 03:04:15 mabye not 03:04:22 mabye go ... ....... 03:04:35 haskell, ML derivatives 03:04:57 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/340762/which-languages-support-tail-recursion-optimization 03:04:57 http://tinyurl.com/luqdrb8 03:12:21 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: El motor por excelencia http://www.europio.org/] 03:12:58 zacts: probably every eager functional language 03:13:32 btw, even gcc implements it for C with -O2 (not by standard, indeed) 03:13:50 defanor_: oh neat! 03:13:57 IIRC it's very picky about when it turns it on 03:18:10 -!- tenq|away is now known as tenq 03:19:50 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:59 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:25:30 travisb [~travisb@adsl-76-228-193-102.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:25:40 -!- travisb is now known as tabemann 03:25:52 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 03:26:22 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:30:55 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:31:21 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 03:36:04 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 03:43:45 Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 03:50:49 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:48 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:54 carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:07:47 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 04:07:59 zacts, ruby does 04:09:51 well actually, ruby is sympathetic to tco, but it's not a specified must 04:09:53 sigh 04:10:06 why do stuff like this 04:14:31 -!- carleastlund [~carleastl@209-6-40-238.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: carleastlund] 04:15:18 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-216-178.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:22:00 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:24 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:36 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 04:44:08 pcarrier [uid12046@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ohfwrgibwfefiwdw] has joined #scheme 04:47:06 -!- xilo [~xilo@107-209-248-232.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:51:51 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-154-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 04:53:52 -!- ijp [~user@host86-185-211-74.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:54:19 -!- defanor_ [~d@ppp91-77-125-199.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:54:21 defanor [~d@ppp91-77-127-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 04:59:23 -!- tabemann [~travisb@adsl-76-228-193-102.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:05:38 Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 05:06:49 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ,,joeakpyd] 05:22:43 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:28 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 05:34:13 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:36:40 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.158.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:46:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:04:03 is there ever a case where abstraction can actually make a program more complex? 06:13:50 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:14 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 06:21:32 -!- Giomancer [~gio@107.201.206.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:05 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@85.100.254.243] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:23:37 taylanub [~taylanub@85.100.255.115] has joined #scheme 06:25:10 sure 06:25:15 but then your doing it rong 06:25:32 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 06:28:28 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:22 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:29:22 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.233] has joined #scheme 06:36:41 masm [~masm@a89-153-155-94.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 06:36:41 -!- masm [~masm@a89-153-155-94.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 06:44:01 ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 06:50:53 I'm going to reimplement my name-number program using lists and more standard scheme. 06:54:24 nice 06:54:42 www.prevayler.org how about porting this to scheme? 06:54:56 agumonkey [~agu@117.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 06:55:38 how would that work? 06:57:08 -!- racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:52 data in ram 06:57:59 updates are logged to disk 06:58:11 whole image dumped every 4 hours 06:58:14 if fault 06:58:21 load last dump 06:58:23 then run updat elog on it 06:58:26 now ur back 06:58:32 same state 06:58:39 time must be part of each transaction 06:58:48 since everything in ram everything very fast 07:12:01 wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:12:45 -!- tenq [~tenq@199.19.116.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:23:54 -!- ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 07:24:07 -!- LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:40 ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 07:25:38 agumonke1 [~agu@144.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 07:28:19 -!- azathoth99 [~g@cpe-98-154-166-49.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:28:37 -!- agumonkey [~agu@117.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:29:38 superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has joined #scheme 07:32:08 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 07:33:24 cool. well, I'm still learning scheme and SICP, or I would help out if I could. 07:38:51 -!- superjudge [~mjl@37-46-176-69.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:01 just because data is in ram doesn't mean accessing it is fast 08:06:03 tacey [~tacey@220.231.27.150] has joined #scheme 08:12:44 jewel [~jewel@105-236-120-81.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:28:43 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #scheme 08:32:52 alexei___ [~amgarchin@theo1.theochem.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #scheme 08:34:58 LeoNerd [leo@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fe96:20e8] has joined #scheme 08:37:32 how can I get the length of the number of digits in a number in scheme? 08:38:33 you could convert it to a string and count it's length 08:38:58 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:39:20 string-length 08:39:36 let me see how I convert a number into a string.. 08:39:45 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:49 "number->string", such a boring name. 08:40:45 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:40:58 yeah, I found that 08:42:51 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 08:43:09 cool. let's see if I can complete my number program in r5rs scheme, rather than simply.scm. 08:43:54 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@85.100.255.115] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:44:26 taylanub [~taylanub@85.100.255.102] has joined #scheme 08:49:42 yacks [~py@103.6.158.102] has joined #scheme 08:49:57 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-120-81.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:50:42 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:25 I wonder what names I can come up with instead of backwards-car (last element) and backwards-cdr (all but the last element)? 08:56:58 last, not-first ? 08:57:01 all-but-first ? 08:57:07 after-first 08:57:07 tail 08:57:41 Ohwait, I see.. all-but-last 08:57:44 aranhoide [~smuxi@46.Red-79-153-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:57:57 yeah the other way 08:58:04 The standard Haskell name for "all but the last" operation is 'init', by way of analogy to 'tail'. 08:58:14 (But it's a bit confusing word, perhaps.) 08:58:27 the result of chop 08:58:46 (And 'last' for the other.) 09:00:29 hm.. last and abl. 09:00:49 Of course there's always "rac" and "rdc". ("snoc" is used reasonably often to append to end, I believe. Haven't seen those two, though.) 09:01:18 oh, ok rac and rdc 09:14:34 cool, I've got rac and rdc defined now. 09:48:14 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:19 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:05:00 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:45 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:11:35 add^_ [~user@m5-241-24-126.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 10:27:38 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 10:31:46 jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:34:57 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:21 jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:36:49 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:37:28 -!- 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[~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 12:43:40 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:21 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@46.Red-79-153-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:44:30 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:59:40 davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has joined #scheme 13:01:01 -!- pumpkin360 [~main@agjt188.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:01:52 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:02:52 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:03:33 tenq [~tenq@199.19.116.207] has joined #scheme 13:06:31 mmc1 [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 13:12:50 I wonder how immutable strings compare to symbols; would they be redundant ? 13:14:00 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:15:01 jao [~jao@55.Red-79-148-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:15:04 -!- jao [~jao@55.Red-79-148-157.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:15:04 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 13:15:54 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.216] has joined #scheme 13:16:22 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:44 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 13:17:42 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 13:17:48 -!- ventonegro [~alex@cust.static.46-14-234-161.swisscomdata.ch] has quit [Quit: ventonegro] 13:21:23 fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has joined #scheme 13:24:05 Goudish [~Goudish@94.172.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 13:24:38 racycle [~racycle@75-25-129-128.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:25:09 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:25 -!- tacey 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[~jvc@111.161.77.239] has joined #scheme 14:33:49 C-Keen: it's "basic" math 14:34:06 ,(let ((n 12345678)) (ceiling (/ (log (+ n 1)) (log 10)))) 14:34:13 8.0 14:34:47 C-Keen: for positive numbers 14:35:06 (strictly positive) 14:35:45 (you need a corner-case for 0) 14:36:21 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@46.Red-79-153-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:37:33 -!- ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:07 -!- Goudish [~Goudish@94.172.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:36 -!- jvc [~jvc@111.161.77.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:42 ffio_ [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has joined #scheme 14:42:02 jvc [~jvc@111.161.77.239] has joined #scheme 14:42:56 -!- ventonegro [~alex@cust.static.46-14-234-161.swisscomdata.ch] has quit [Quit: ventonegro] 14:47:34 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 14:51:17 ase_ 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18:01:02 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:21 aranhoide [~smuxi@46.Red-79-153-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:16 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:14:58 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@46.Red-79-153-151.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 18:16:43 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:19:49 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:20:32 -!- ffio [~fire@unaffiliated/security] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:24:27 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 18:27:55 do the native-code-generating schemes generally do type reconstruction / inference in order to produce better code? 18:30:14 -!- jvc [~jvc@124.202.191.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:21 ecraven: chicken performs some flow analysis and optimizes code based on type information. 18:33:40 It doesn't generate native code directly, though. 18:34:07 does it do full type analysis, or just some heuristic? 18:34:29 I don't know details, sorry. 18:37:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:21 -!- tenq is now known as tenq|away 18:40:36 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:42:15 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 18:47:16 fdr [~rafaelfdr@ps53163.dreamhost.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:35 -!- cosmez [~kib0@200.92.100.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:39 -!- levi [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:33 levi [~user@24.10.225.212] has joined #scheme 18:51:43 -!- microcode [~microcode@bas1-toronto04-1176392373.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:00:51 jvc [~jvc@124.202.191.50] has joined #scheme 19:01:37 alexei___ 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#scheme 19:32:02 userzxcv_ [~neutral_a@c656847C1.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #scheme 19:32:12 -!- userzxcvasdf [~neutral_a@c656847C1.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:12 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:12 -!- defanor [~d@ppp91-77-127-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:54 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #scheme 19:33:08 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-24-126.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:33:10 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #scheme 19:38:05 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:23 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:40:23 microcode [~microcode@bas1-toronto04-2925396038.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 19:45:20 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:48:20 cosmez [~cosmez@200.92.100.68] has joined #scheme 19:53:21 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 19:56:03 -!- gosub [d9857234@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.133.114.52] has left #scheme 19:58:30 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #scheme 20:01:31 tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has joined #scheme 20:01:34 -!- userzxcv_ [~neutral_a@c656847C1.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:52 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-146-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:15:21 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-146-157.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:15:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-17.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:58 -!- add^_` is now known as add^_ 20:18:11 can APPLY be implemented without special support in the base Scheme language? 20:19:06 i.e. is there a way to write (DEFINE (APPLY fun . args) .....)? 20:29:08 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #scheme 20:32:07 I can imagine a "sufficiently long" case list based on the (length args) could do it. 20:39:20 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:45:07 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 20:45:26 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 20:45:38 Haha. 20:47:48 I think one can conceptually think of procedure-application syntax as a shorthand for `apply'. Although, `apply' itself is a procedure... 20:53:57 -!- wingo [~wingo@cha74-2-88-160-190-192.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:06:00 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:08:06 Wrote (define (my-apply fun args) (call-with-values (lambda () (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (c) (apply c args)))) fun)) as a potential replacement for apply, initially without noticing that use of apply in there. 21:09:23 -!- tupi [~user@139.82.89.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:15 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: rebooting] 21:11:32 :) 21:11:57 MIT/GNU Scheme has a definition of APPLY, but I don't quite understand why it works :-/ 21:15:36 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #scheme 21:19:54 -!- DerGuteMoritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:20:36 DerGuteMoritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has joined #scheme 21:21:21 Possibly uses some platform-specific internals ? 21:21:45 i don't think so :) 21:22:40 -!- githogori [~githogori@c-50-156-57-127.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:51 this is the code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138243 21:23:49 what I don't understand is the 2-argument innermost COND, if l is a pair (so if there are more than 5 parameters), then it just calls apply.. doesn't that loop infinitely? 21:23:51 That's not a `define' form, I'd like to see the whole of it ... 21:25:15 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:27:15 it is an arity-dispatched procedure, there is no standard define form for this 21:27:19 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 21:27:27 -!- davexunit [~user@38.104.7.18] has quit [Quit: Later] 21:27:36 Well where does it bind the identifier `apply', for instance ? 21:28:15 -!- pothos [~pothos@114-36-244-178.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:35 pothos [~pothos@114-36-230-87.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 21:33:22 -!- edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:35:33 I suspect this might be the implementation of MIT/NGU Scheme written in itself, I reckon it does some self-hosting stuff like that. If that's so, it doesn't mean you can implement `apply' in a sub-Scheme that doesn't have it. 21:36:44 Looking at the ((2) ...) clause, I see it handles and argument list of up to 4 elements specially, and then just resorts to calling `apply' itself. Surely this is not a recursive call ? I suspect it does this special-handling of up to 4 arguments for some performance reasons. 21:37:30 But I'm left guessing because I have no context... 21:39:25 edw [~edw@207.239.61.34] has joined #scheme 21:39:35 taylanub: you are right, the source code file mentions that there is an underlying APPLY that is overwritten here.. looking to find that now 21:40:00 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:45:29 ok, the primitive APPLY is implemented in C :-/ 21:48:48 defanor [~d@ppp91-77-127-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 21:51:19 Wouldn't have expected otherwise. (Although intuition *can* be very misleading.) 22:01:12 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:02:14 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:46 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 22:06:45 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-146-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:56 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-137-79.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:08:22 davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:08:59 -!- davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:16 davexunit [~user@c-71-232-35-199.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:12:15 levi` [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:25:36 Cromulent|2 [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 22:33:48 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:42:15 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:08 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #scheme 22:49:29 -!- Modius [~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:42 Modius [~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:49:43 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:52:16 -!- levi` [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:52:56 -!- levi [~user@24.10.225.212] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:54:34 levi [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:58:23 tabemann [~travisb@adsl-69-210-132-116.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 23:01:03 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:01:41 BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@72.49.0.102] has joined #scheme 23:04:09 -!- jfe [~jfe@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:41 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:19:42 -!- Cromulent|2 [~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:22:57 implementation question 23:23:27 in actual schemes, are the various annotations that can appear before expressions and symbols just hardcoded in, or anything like a reader macro system used? 23:24:48 (is implementing something akin to reader macros even possible with hygienic macros?) 23:26:48 tabemann: yes, reader macros and hygiene are orthogonal. 23:26:59 By the time the macro expander runs, there should be no more reader macros anyway. 23:27:31 Hygienic macros cannot implement reader extensions, they can only do .. hygienic transformations. 23:28:02 Oh, you meant using macros to *implement* reader macros? 23:28:25 They run at different phases, so neither can be used to implement the other. 23:28:40 (using the loose sense of "phase" not the macro system notion of "phase") 23:29:21 so implementing reader macros rather than hardcoding them would basically mean implementing a whole new system that has nothing to do with the likes of syntax-rules or syntax-case, and which would obviously could not be standard 23:29:47 Yes, implementations support non-standard methods for reader extensions. 23:30:02 (That's not "hardcoding" though.) 23:30:31 by hardcoding them I mean doing what reader macros would to wholly in the implementation language, Haskell in this case 23:30:53 Non-standard "primitives", yes. 23:30:58 s/would to/would do 23:31:55 Not "wholly" though, you can offer something that takes a Scheme procedure which does the transformation. 23:32:48 E.g. http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Reader-Extensions.html 23:33:09 I would need to implement some subset natively, though, or otherwise the reader could form an infinite loop 23:33:28 (i.e. implement the reader only in that subset implemented natively) 23:40:04 igotnole_ [~igotnoleg@67-2-110-151.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 23:41:02 -!- igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@67-2-102-202.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:03 -!- igotnole_ is now known as igotnolegs- 23:41:22 minor question 23:41:43 the R7RS-small doc is unclear as to whether boolean=? requires at least one argument or whether it can take zero arguments 23:42:02 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:07 (boolean=? boolean1 boolean2 boolean3 . . . ) 23:42:07 procedure 23:42:15 Returns #t if all the arguments are booleans and all are #t 23:42:15 or all are #f. 23:42:36 I assume that doesn't mean that it assumes *three* arguments 23:42:49 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:43:09 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 23:43:56 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@85.100.203.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:45:28 -!- alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD565FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:47:50 -!- agumonkey [~agu@144.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:55 taylanub [~taylanub@78.179.228.254] has joined #scheme