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[uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-haismmhsmeaxvwge] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:41:19 -!- ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hlakiiqzxsoaxqxu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:55 -!- HotHat [~lyhux@58.22.255.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:20 recursor94 [~user@pool-173-68-194-228.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:46 Hello. I've made my way to the end of chapter 1 in sicp and I have a question about internal defintions. Is it really acceptable practice to use define within procedures to locally bind variables? When should I use one over the other? 15:48:10 By that I mean let over define 15:52:30 recursor94: in SICP Scheme, you can't define a recursive function using any kind of let 15:52:38 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:41 Okay. 15:53:01 Thanks, I'm not very far along. 15:53:08 *dpk* nods 15:53:19 i think there's a question about that in Chapter 3 or so 15:53:19 So in actual practice I would use let, right? 15:53:51 well, no. you can't do recursive procedures with let in non-SICP Scheme either 15:54:07 but there's a similar thing called let* which can do that, but SICP doesn't use it 15:54:35 whether you use that or internal definitions is mostly a matter of preference, really 15:55:28 Alright. One other question--can you use let to define recursive procedures in clojure? 15:57:10 not sure 15:57:25 i think Clojure has some special stuff you're supposed to use for that 15:57:55 because it can't (normally) optimize tail-calls, but iirc there's some special syntax that gives an exception sometimes  15:58:20 *dpk* is not a Clojurer though, so you'd be better asking in some channel that's probably called #clojure 15:58:40 alright, thanks! 15:58:43 :D 15:59:38 fdr [~fdr@189.102.204.123] has joined #scheme 16:03:34 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:02 cross_ [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #scheme 16:04:03 DerGuteM1ritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has joined #scheme 16:04:13 pt_ [~pt@84.114.230.154] has joined #scheme 16:04:59 htor_ [165479@safir.ifi.uio.no] has joined #scheme 16:08:04 -!- recursor94 [~user@pool-173-68-194-228.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:28 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD63C15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:09:37 alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD63C15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:10:03 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:12:32 -!- alexei_ [~amgarchin@p4FD63C15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:38 alexei___ [~amgarchin@p4FD63C15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:13:01 -!- jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:17:12 -!- stamourv` [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:12 -!- pt [~pt@84.114.230.154] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:12 -!- dpk [~r00t@213.138.101.38] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:12 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:12 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:12 -!- DerGuteMoritz [~syn@saturn.lileth.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:12 -!- cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:12 -!- htor [165479@safir.ifi.uio.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:17:27 -!- fdr [~fdr@189.102.204.123] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 16:17:44 fdr [~fdr@189.102.204.123] has joined #scheme 16:22:38 Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has joined #scheme 16:28:49 trusktr [~trusktr@ip-64-134-228-12.public.wayport.net] has joined #scheme 16:29:01 dpk [~r00t@obquire.infologie.co] has joined #scheme 16:38:13 stamourv` [~user@ahuntsic.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:38:13 brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 16:38:13 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #scheme 16:39:36 tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 16:43:40 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:53:49 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@racket/jeapostrophe] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:55:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:17 -!- fdr [~fdr@189.102.204.123] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:11:50 izisf [~izisf@host-37-191-200-55.lynet.no] has joined #scheme 17:20:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-47.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:23:22 pierpa [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 17:30:20 -!- rage [~rage@unaffiliated/ffs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:32:19 rage [~rage@unaffiliated/ffs] has joined #scheme 17:35:44 -!- DerGuteM1ritz is now known as DerGuteMoritz 17:36:49 wait, you can't bind recursive procedures with let* either 17:36:59 that's what letrec[*] is for 17:37:01 oh 17:37:04 duh 17:37:09 sorry, got those confused 17:37:12 alternatively there's named let 17:37:19 *dpk* nods 17:37:26 no prob :-) 17:37:52 there's also some SRFI thing called rec for one-off recursive definitions 17:38:20 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ivjpvuhwrpfxrgjz] has joined #scheme 17:38:23 -!- brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:38:35 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kunyjszhhjttfhop] has joined #scheme 17:39:07 brianloveswords [~brianlove@li124-154.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 17:55:20 Is LETREC* in the standard? 17:55:58 Ah, R7RS 18:14:29 -!- izisf [~izisf@host-37-191-200-55.lynet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:25 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:26:25 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:27:11 hi, what's a good book for programming newbies? SICP is not for newbies and I am not thrilled when HTDP guys change language version to load "teachpacks".... 18:28:12 has anybody had any success in teaching with D. Touretzky's "Gentle Introduction..."? 18:28:35 I know it uses CL while Scheme is probably easier to explain 18:32:42 adiii [~adityavit@c-76-117-52-187.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:37:25 -!- pt_ [~pt@84.114.230.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:38:57 pt [~pt@84.114.230.154] has joined #scheme 18:39:21 -!- levi [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:51 levi [~user@c-24-10-225-212.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:40:09 puchacz: i would just swallow your aversion to teachpacks :) 18:40:25 otherwise some people really like "simply scheme", which bills itself as a sicp prequel 18:40:42 wingo: ok, I will check simply scheme 18:40:57 bjz_ [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has joined #scheme 18:41:00 -!- bjz [~brendanza@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:37 Gublai [~Gublai@153.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:40 -!- sethalve_ is now known as sethalves 19:07:48 is "Simply Scheme" compatible with DrRacket? 19:11:06 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 19:11:07 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD92D3D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:11:36 taylanub [tub@p4FD94FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:16:56 on a beginner level, most Schemes are rather compatible :) 19:19:13 well, you can't run some of the SICP's programs in Racket without some compatibility layers 19:19:20 even if you switch to R5RS 19:19:42 because SICP isn't actually R5RS 19:19:55 it uses some non-standard extensions and definitions 19:20:16 and HTDP is compatible with its own "teaching languages" 19:20:17 (I really recommend SICP, by the way :) 19:20:26 also, SICP is free and has videos :) 19:20:28 I know, but it is NOT for beginners 19:20:42 for Scheme beginners or programming beginners? 19:21:01 programming beginners 19:21:05 (not myself) 19:21:09 I've heard good thing about The Little Schemer (though I personally don't like its style, many people do) 19:21:28 I can try, though isn't it hard to focus ;) ? 19:21:43 loved The Little Schemer 19:22:23 if youre going to read a book with a lot of recursive algorithms 19:22:32 read it first 19:24:00 I don't know, I started learning with Pascal some 20 years ago 19:24:16 also, i think that even if you dont like racket's use of custom languages, its a good way to know what youre getting into 19:24:38 most complex scheme programs implement their own mini languages 19:41:17 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 19:42:15 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:52 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 19:43:39 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:38 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@77.221.25.95] has joined #scheme 19:45:45 izisf [~izisf@host-37-191-200-55.lynet.no] has joined #scheme 19:46:07 -!- MrFahrenheit 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