00:00:22 -!- LAMMJohn1on [~ja@user-5af43e54.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 00:00:52 LAMMJohnson [~ja@user-5af43e54.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #scheme 00:02:20 floats are weird everywhere it seems 00:03:45 -!- taylanub [tub@p4FD938BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:04:14 taylanub [tub@p4FD9377E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:04:33 Weird everywhere? 00:05:31 -!- Triclops|dinner is now known as Triclops256 00:08:01 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:33 weird everywhere 00:08:34 -!- humbug__ [~humbug@cpe-74-69-103-78.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: out of work!] 00:08:45 predictable.... but not practically 00:10:07 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:13:41 -!- ijp is now known as ghost_of_robin_m 00:14:13 -!- ghost_of_robin_m is now known as robinmilnerghost 00:15:32 -!- robinmilnerghost is now known as ijp 00:19:30 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-197.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:20:35 -!- trusktr [~trusktr@130.86.99.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:22:17 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:09 -!- mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:25:09 -!- tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:30:06 mmc [~michal@sams-office-nat.tomtomgroup.com] has joined #scheme 00:30:06 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 00:39:41 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:39:49 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #scheme 00:45:03 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 00:48:03 -!- youlysses [~youlysses@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Peace people! o/] 00:48:31 youlysses [~youlysses@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:57:49 adiii [~adityavit@c-68-45-153-184.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:02 -!- mario-goulart [~user@wkit.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:29 mario-goulart [~user@wkit.com.br] has joined #scheme 01:13:26 tenq [~tenq@ip68-100-228-234.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:13:41 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:24:44 -!- adiii [~adityavit@c-68-45-153-184.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:24:59 adiii [~adityavit@c-68-45-153-184.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:28:37 BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-167-71.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined #scheme 01:28:55 what's now the name of that automatic typechecking algorithm.. it's a three-letter abbreviation followed by the number 2 01:28:58 DSA2 , something like this 01:29:06 also works for Javascript 01:29:14 what is the word I'm looking for :) 01:30:56 jcowan [~jcowan@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #scheme 01:31:20 jcowan: what's the 3-letter name of that scheme & javascript type inference algorithm? 01:31:22 DSA2 or something 01:31:51 Sorry, I don't know. 01:32:22 ahh 01:32:23 CFA2 01:38:00 BW^-: CFA2 is a control flow analysis algorithm. It can be used for type reconstruction (and has been used for that, see DrJs), but it can be used for many different things. 01:38:55 stamourv`: is CFA2 the best around? 01:39:00 say, for a generics system 01:39:17 to detect the use of generics anywhere and optimize them to ordinary procedure calls, thus optimizing away the need of runtime lookups and stuff 01:39:41 It's hard to define "best" in this case. 01:39:50 stamourv`: who are the competitors? 01:39:53 would you include CFA2 there? 01:40:00 ah, this is in the context of Scheme of course. 01:40:16 It gives you good precision compared to most analyses, but IIUC, it may be most costly (time) and maybe harder to implement. 01:40:26 ..than? 01:40:35 0-CFA (or more generally, k-CFA). 01:40:51 Which is one the standard higher-order control flow analyses. 01:41:07 But there's a bunch more, all with different tradeoffs. 01:41:30 IIRC, CFA2 can handle certain forms of control, but I don't know if it can do full call/cc. 01:41:47 Dimitris' thesis would tell you. 01:42:40 But anyway, I'm no control flow analysis expert, so I can't really advise you on which one is best for your application. 01:43:23 If I were you, I'd just pick either 0-CFA or CFA2, whichever one looks easiest to implement, and go with that. 01:43:26 stamourv: Dimitris who? 01:43:33 Either will probably work fine. 01:43:36 aha 01:43:36 Vardoulakis. 01:43:46 what about Abstract Interpretation of Matt Flatt? 01:43:48 sorry 01:43:49 Matt Might 01:43:53 matt.might.net 01:44:01 Abstracting abstract machines? 01:44:13 That's a very nice presentation of flow analysis. I recommend it. 01:44:26 It helps to be familiar with abstract machines / reduction semantics. 01:44:51 mhm 01:44:52 hm 01:44:54 Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Matt had a blog post about 0-CFA. That would be a good starting point. 01:45:02 Matt's blog posts are excellent. 01:45:04 Dimitris Vardoulakis, what about his take on call/cc? 01:45:08 you mean, he should know if it delivers? 01:45:34 I'm not sure whether CFA-2 can handle full call/cc. His thesis probably has all the details. 01:45:56 stamourv`: Matt's Abstract Interpretation is basically another level of Control Flow Analysis, isn't it? 01:46:01 aha 01:46:14 http://matt.might.net/articles/implementation-of-kcfa-and-0cfa/ 01:46:29 AAM is another approach to CFA, yes. 01:46:38 stamourv: DrJs? 01:47:12 One that is pretty easy to understand for people familiar with reduction semantics (which, nowadays, is pretty much anyone who works in programming languages). 01:47:25 adu: DrJs? 01:47:26 adu: Doctor Javascript. Lemme find the link. 01:47:51 ah https://github.com/dimvar/doctorjs 01:47:55 stamourv`: ^ 01:48:00 https://blog.mozilla.org/labs/category/doctor-js/ 01:48:01 Yep. 01:48:08 doctorjs.org? 01:48:28 Yep. 01:49:07 rudybot: doctor doctor 01:49:07 ijp: Can anyone else use /doctor, /reverse as posted on EmacsWiki? 01:49:12 I get "Oh dear, something went wrong" 01:49:19 ijp: drdr.racket-lang.org 01:49:30 (Racket's continuous integration server.) 01:49:41 stamourv`: I was hoping for something amusing from the bot 01:49:42 Couldn't live without it. 01:49:55 adu: yeah me too 01:50:03 stamourv`: you couldn't live without.. which? 01:50:12 Well, since rudybot hangs out on #emacs, there's probably going to be a lot about M-x doctor. 01:50:15 oh i haven't voted yet 01:50:24 BW^-: drdr, the continuous integration tool. 01:50:40 I've used M-x doctor, isn't that GNU eliza 01:50:46 If I break any tests, it tells be right away. 01:50:53 s/be/me/ 01:51:14 stamourv`: so like a TAP framework 01:52:14 aha 01:52:28 stamourv`: it executes tests on changes ? 01:52:29 TAP? 01:52:31 very well, i got things to do 01:52:46 Yep, every time we push to the Racket git server, runs a build, the runs all the tests. 01:52:51 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:06 BW^-: One last think before I go to sleep: these analyses are usually defined on small core languages, so you probably want to run them post macro-expansion. 01:53:41 -!- youlysses [~youlysses@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:53:49 mhm 01:53:49 Otherwise, your analysis won't be able to figure out what, say, `match', or whatever your favorite macro is, does. 01:53:58 mhm 01:54:01 In Racket, it's a simple matter of using `local-expand'. 01:54:05 rudybot: doc local-expand 01:54:06 stamourv`: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stxtrans.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._local-expand)) 01:54:14 Doctor Doctor with green coat / Doctor Doctor cut my throat 01:54:38 stamourv`: was good to talk to you - thanks for the thoughts you shared also 01:54:45 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 01:55:00 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:31 *ijp* gives jcowan a cookie 01:55:59 And when you've cut it, Doctor, then / Please to sew it up again? 01:56:11 --Isaac Asimov, just before he was wheeled into the OR for thoracic surgery 01:56:18 jcowan: how do I vote? 01:57:14 BW^-: No problem. Ping me if you have more questions. 01:57:30 adu: fetch the ballot from scheme-reports.org mailing list archive, fill it out, post to scheme-reports mailing list 01:57:48 I'm not an expert, but I work with some. 01:58:15 jcowan: is there any ballot in the standardization process now? 01:58:24 i'm kind of generally interested of course 01:58:41 Yes, that's the ballot I'm talking about 01:58:42 *stamourv`* goes to sleep. 01:58:42 http://lists.scheme-reports.org/pipermail/scheme-reports/2013-April/003299.html 01:58:43 http://tinyurl.com/cbr8y7d 01:59:07 to vote on R7RS-small 02:00:09 jcowan: do I need a statement of interest? 02:00:12 and in a decades time we can all come back and vote on r7rs-large 02:00:44 adu: Yes, it's part of the ballot, unless you have already filed one for R6RS or the Steering Committee election. 02:00:44 assuming we haven't reached r12rs by then 02:00:57 ijp: R7RS-large will have a rolling release, I think 02:01:12 WG2 will need rechartering anyway 02:01:32 as I've said before, I don't think r7rs-large makes sense any way 02:01:36 jcowan: aha. if i just like the small R7RS spec, maybe unless the module form or whatever, then is it a good idea for me to email a "yes"? 02:01:44 just to get an idea what kind of impact we're talking about 02:02:06 Sure, why not? Anyone with a legitimate interest in Scheme can vote. 02:02:12 mhm 02:02:16 Far be it from me to tell anyone to vote who hasn't looked at the draft, though. 02:02:19 r7rs small will go through, too many people hate r6rs unconditionally for it not to 02:02:22 jcowan: i hope the reflections shared are taken into consideration?s 02:02:26 so it's not just like a blind yes or no 02:02:33 hehe. ok. 02:02:42 It depends on what happens. 02:02:48 jcowan: like what? 02:02:56 If the vote fails, rationales for "no" votes will certainly be taken into account. 02:03:00 very well, i completely trust these things turn out the best way independent of me voting and so on 02:03:03 If it succeeds, we'll probably move on. 02:03:07 aha 02:03:19 very well - great! 02:04:00 jcowan: ah btw, if you're hunting for anyone with practical focus experience, i might be able to share something 02:04:08 What is focus experience? 02:04:52 jao [~jao@48.Red-88-17-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:04:56 -!- jao [~jao@48.Red-88-17-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:04:56 jao [~jao@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #scheme 02:05:53 what does affiliation mean? company? organization? university? 02:06:11 adu: they clarify with Uni yeah 02:06:22 jcowan: WG2 didn't start at all yet? 02:06:23 no work done? 02:06:39 zzing [~zzing@198-91-217-153.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 02:06:45 BW^-: R7RS-large is about 0.001% done 02:06:49 jcowan has done a little, but he's the only one 02:07:02 So far we have held a vote and accepted some packages and rejected others. 02:07:11 At the conceptual level, I mean. 02:07:25 rejections included the most useful macro system 02:07:28 Should we have boxes? Yes. Should we have SRFI 1? Yes. Should we have an FFI for Java? No. 02:07:35 Macro systems will be revoted. 02:07:58 it doesn't matter anyway, since you are committed to the cause of optionality 02:08:22 it's little more than glorified srfis 02:09:28 -!- ijp [~user@host81-155-27-94.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has left #scheme 02:09:32 It will be nothing more than unglorified SRFIs, literally. 02:10:02 jcowan: unglorified what do you mean 02:10:04 I'm going to run all proposals through the SRFI process, and then the WG will just vote MUST, SHOULD, or MAY on them. 02:10:06 that sounds like a wise decision! 02:10:21 i mean, to originate from the SRFI:s, and kind of go deeper and in that area, so to speak 02:10:25 I expect most things will be SHOULD. 02:10:40 There will be lots of new SRFIs as a side effect, of course. I just sent in the first one. 02:11:05 So the actual R7RS-large document will just be a conformance statement and maybe a few little hacks here and there. 02:15:50 jcowan: conformance with .. SRFI:s? 02:16:34 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:16:54 No, statements like "R7RS-large implementations MUST implement SRFI xxx, SHOULD implement SRFI yyy, MAY implement SRFI zzzz" 02:19:03 aha 02:19:18 interesting 02:19:30 your clarifications now are the first ones I heard on what the large language would contain; 02:19:39 and i'm happy to hear the SRFI focus on it 02:19:44 (about/in) 02:19:51 probably just a few MUSTs, lots of SHOULDs (the principle of optionality mentioned by ijp) and who knows what in the way of MAYs, maybe none. 02:20:04 Well, nothing is ratified by the WG yet, these are just my ideas as chair. 02:20:13 indeed the SRFI:s is where the efforts and experience on a wider level is concentrated, when it comes to "large language" kind of use of Scheme 02:20:14 But nobody has said "no" to them yet. 02:20:48 ok 02:21:31 I have just submitted the first SRFI, for boxes. 02:21:50 Easy to do, so I just went ahead and did it. 02:21:55 aha 02:22:04 The technical content is at trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/BoxesCowan 02:22:33 aha 02:22:40 jcowan: what is the aim, goal, of the larger language? 02:22:42 as it stands now 02:23:41 Portability of programs to different implementations. 02:23:50 aha 02:24:08 Whereas the small standard is primarily about portability of *libraries* to different implementations. 02:26:12 jcowan: so it'll need some readtables, lexers and parsers, and configurable syntax? 02:26:52 Readtables at run time aren't a problem. 02:27:08 However, I am trying to duck the phasing problem as long as possible, though in the end it will have to be faced. 02:27:17 Lexical syntax has a particularly severe form of it. 02:27:36 -!- sambio is now known as natalianatalia 02:28:25 phasing? 02:28:57 jcowan: typical stuff i run into when on a Gambit + SRFI:s-enabled platform is, 02:29:26 I need stuff like vector-for-each , map-w-index, let-args, map-hashtable 02:29:30 , hashtable-keys 02:29:50 so there's this perpetual "util" module with various basic tools like that that tends to join everywhere 02:29:56 of course for local purposes that works. 02:30:08 if a "large language" definition could remedy this, would be a great thing 02:30:19 the SRFI:s are somehow too specialized for quite a lot of this 02:31:52 Do you really want map-hashtable (i.e. lifting a function to the domain of hashtables?) 02:32:19 jcowan: map-hashtable as in, (map (lambda (key value) ..code..) hashtable) => list of the lambda:s return values 02:32:22 how many parameters would it use? 02:32:50 Right, that's not strictly a map function, which would return a new hashtable. 02:32:56 "In no implementation that I know of, hash-table-map does a real functorial map that lifts an ordinary function to the domain of hash tables." --SRFI 69 02:33:18 aha 02:34:03 vector-for-each is part of R7RS-small 02:34:09 What are map-with-index and let-args? 02:35:29 I don't think hashtable-map should exist 02:35:41 hashtable-for-each is better 02:36:09 My current proposal has hashtable-fold instead 02:36:36 the fold function takes 2 args and you can only specify one hashtable, obviously, because of ordering problems. 02:37:56 SRFI 69 has this too, but not R6RS -- however, it's trivial to write for R6RS. 02:38:23 ok i'll just mention some more thing now for whatever value 02:38:29 also some kind of general purpose routines for strings, chars (there are some fundamental things here that are clearly not in SRFI 13 and 14, like, string-strip, string-replace-char, |join|, a string-append form that takes non-string arguments too a bit like |print|, string<->object serialization), lists (same here - list-add!, list-rm!, filter!), 02:38:31 two similar functions CFDictionaryApplyFunction and g_hash_table_foreach would imply that other libraries don't have hashtable-map either 02:38:31 u8vector/blob (same here - u8vector<->string and file) tree structures like WT tree, mailboxes, exception handling that also catches the continuation for stack trace printouts and other handling, queues... let-vector, number<->string with formatting parameters, 02:38:58 Thanks, very helpful 02:39:00 that's all the things I ran into with a R5RS + SRFI:s environment that called for more library functions to be made 02:39:05 some of this is already in various SRFIs 02:39:16 or in R7RS-small 02:39:24 jcowan: yes i know. they have corner cases that they don't deliver for, the SRFI:s 02:39:26 Can you explain map-with-index and let-args? 02:39:56 jcowan: let-args is essentially (define-macro (let-args var def . code) `(apply (lambda ,def . ,code) ,var)) 02:40:22 jcowan: map-w-index and for-each-w-index add a first argument to the called lambda, which is the zero-based index of the element you are at 02:40:33 Ah 02:40:38 BW^-: omg that would be awesome! 02:40:44 so many times I need that index 02:40:55 yeah 02:40:57 I end up mapping over iota instead 02:41:02 adu: so currently that's the catch-all util.scm file!! 02:41:06 it's with you everywhere!! 02:41:15 jcowan: ah next, 02:41:43 jcowan: what i got to need in a medium to big way in scheme; now, this might dig into Gambit's specific implementation philosophy, but I believe it deserves mentioning clearly 02:41:54 jcowan: is, application layer ports that really deliver 02:41:55 now let me explain: 02:42:13 Scheme brings an ports/IO API with open-file, call-with-input-file , open-tcp-client etc. 02:42:22 where the Scheme environment exports this functionality to the program 02:42:27 this is great. it can include char encoding for instance. 02:42:28 now 02:42:37 and object serialization of course 02:42:38 now 02:42:51 jcowan: i've gotteni nto uses like HTTPS and GZIP and HTTP 02:42:57 and really any protocol out there 02:43:27 jcowan: my firm conclusion is that the absolutely finest, and possibly only really reliable way to implement these in Scheme (apart from as block procedures that take or deliver an u8vector/blob) 02:43:33 jcowan: is that they need to expiort *Scheme ports* 02:43:49 jcowan: e.g., (open-ssl-channel (open-tcp-client args)) => ssl-channel-port 02:44:27 jcowan: the only major detail to be added to this is that there's a certain need of mixing binary and character data, as is done in HTTP for instance 02:44:31 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 02:44:44 What ho, Riastradh 02:44:53 jcowan: so the underlying environment needs to have a kind of flexible buffering .. 02:44:54 very well 02:45:30 -!- Triclops256 [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:46:24 jcowan: I got into this need for "application layer" port implementations that have specific exports more or less at per-IO primitive level, from trying to implement an SSL channel atop bidirectional u8vector port. 02:46:40 that failed miserably as the SSL logics code would not be up to date about whether there was EOF or not etc. 02:46:51 this might be too implementation specific for any standard to touch it, i'm very well aware of this 02:47:07 I'd love to do custom ports, but the issues are very messy. IMHO R6RS does not provide enough hooks, and I don't know how to do this myself. 02:47:07 though, ability to abstract protocols and IO is at the core of delivering practical things, which is the subject of the larger language as I got it 02:47:09 very well 02:47:16 aha 02:47:20 So a proposal would be very welcome 02:47:26 aha noted 02:48:02 jcowan: it is in my interest to dig through Gambit's IO system and look in detail at how this can be accomplished, though I have no clue about what timeframe is now, could be very long. 02:48:16 *jcowan* nods. 02:48:22 As and when you can. 02:48:46 jcowan: basically Gambit ports are vectors and they have some closure element for filling up the read buffer and flushing the write buffer 02:48:51 As I said, R7RS-large will have a rolling release: when things are approved by the WG, they get added, since non-WG members will have full ability to participate in SRFI discussions. 02:49:03 and some other events, like io exception. this is what they consist of. probably making custom ports of it is extremely simple. 02:49:15 aha 02:49:26 jcowan: does this mean that SRFI:s may be amended on their way into R7RS? 02:49:52 hmhm. 02:50:01 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:50:12 it's a tricky thing.. on the one hand, it's clear that SRFI 1 contains the essentials of list handling 02:50:26 very well. 02:50:47 jcowan and all, it was great to talk to you. i'll need to get into other things now; all the best. / 02:50:57 Yes, some SRFIs will be extended (rather than amended) 02:51:08 as in "This SRFI provides everthign SRFI 43 does, plus ..." 02:52:02 gr8. 02:52:15 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-167-71.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:54:03 BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-167-71.residential.rdsnet.ro] has joined #scheme 02:58:07 agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #scheme 02:58:07 trusktr [~trusktr@c-71-193-54-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:58:32 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:03:48 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@cable-77-221-21-70.dynamic.telemach.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:04:00 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #scheme 03:04:46 jcowan: I swear I recieved the message, but I can't find it, do I still send to voter-registration@r6rs.org? 03:04:51 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-145-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 03:07:28 no, to scheme-reports@scheme-reports.org 03:07:57 see http://lists.scheme-reports.org/pipermail/scheme-reports/2013-April/003299.html for full details 03:07:58 http://tinyurl.com/cbr8y7d 03:10:16 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@5-15-167-71.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 03:10:21 jcowan: thanks 03:11:07 amoe_ [~amoe@host-78-147-157-119.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 03:14:17 -!- amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-148-246.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:22:29 -!- cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:26:50 Triclops256 [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has joined #scheme 03:30:05 cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #scheme 03:33:36 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:40:25 amoe [~amoe@host-78-147-147-109.as13285.net] has joined #scheme 03:41:40 jonrafkind [~jon@racket/jonrafkind] has joined #scheme 03:41:47 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin] 03:43:21 -!- amoe_ [~amoe@host-78-147-157-119.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:43:53 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-142-171.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #scheme 03:44:03 -!- ldionmarcil 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(IRC client for Emacs)] 16:52:32 amgarchIn9 [~amgarchin@p4FD60C94.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 16:52:37 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 16:56:56 -!- sambio is now known as natalianatalia 17:11:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:13:03 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 17:13:41 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:19:24 -!- Nafai [~nafai@174-126-77-168.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23:48 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #scheme 17:23:49 bipt [~bpt@cpe-071-070-253-241.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:32:32 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #scheme 17:32:34 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-142-171.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #scheme 17:32:44 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-142-171.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:44 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #scheme 17:43:11 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:26 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:45:07 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 17:48:12 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:44 mefogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #scheme 17:52:50 ``fogus 17:52:58 ``fogus 17:53:02 -!- mefogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has left #scheme 17:54:50 *offby1* hollers at the projectionist 17:57:55 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-184-56-129-232.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:08:00 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:36 -!- adbge [~rps@c-24-14-251-6.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:28:36 An object whose type is an SRFI-9/R7RS record-type ought to be discrete from any other type, right ? I wonder then, how can records be implemented in R5RS ? 18:30:47 Perhaps that only applies to R7? 18:32:28 SRFI-9 says "Each new record type is distinct from all existing types, ..." and I've just read on the mailing list that R5RS implementations exist .. 18:32:35 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:10 Hrm, the reference-implementation is right there .. I shall read it. 18:34:46 Ah, it overrides the type-predicate of another type. :) 18:34:50 (Vector.) 18:36:36 vector seems reasonable for O(1) element access 18:38:39 Huh .. I've just read on the mailing-list that R7RS(-Small) has hash-tables .. that person ought to be mistaken ? 18:39:30 (Also, why does my English style change *so* drastically from IRC channel to IRC channel ? I almost feel like a hypocrit because of it when I turn aware.) 18:41:06 adbge [~rps@c-24-14-251-6.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:41:21 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:41:31 A lack of any sort of efficient associative structure has often felt lacking to me in Scheme, coming from Perl. So if R7 adds one that sounds good 18:41:38 -!- zacts [~blueberry@75-161-65-166.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:41:39 zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #scheme 18:41:59 copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #scheme 18:43:43 no hash tables in R6RS? 18:43:57 R6RS has them I'm pretty sure, not R7RS-Small though. 18:44:33 taylanub: I've noticed that in myself. In some channels I'm reserved, mature, pedantic; in others I'm like Groucho Marx. I think I copy the existing tone. 18:45:19 :) 18:45:23 deveux [~deveux@113.Red-83-36-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:50:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:29 -!- natalianatalia is now known as cojedordefrutos 18:53:38 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3092.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:54:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3092.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:55:48 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 18:56:39 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA3092.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:00:09 BossKonaSegwaY [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:01:09 -!- BossKonaSegwaY1 [~Michael@cpe-75-187-45-52.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:01:26 -!- cojedordefrutos [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:01:37 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #scheme 19:03:02 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit 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